Trench's Questions and Philosophies

[Boethius]

I notice moby didn't dignify your digs at his family with a response.  FTR, I have seen photos of moby's daughters.  He posted them once elsewhere, though just for a short time.  They are extremely attractive and no, they are not fat.


I don't think the break up of a marriage is necessarily about character.  Trench, you have never raised children, you've never lived with someone else, and you seem to have a very narrow perspective of life.  Divorce often brings out the worst in people who otherwise are of good character.  Most of the time, it's about pain and fear - the pain of loss and rejection, the fear of being alone.   I don't expect you to understand.


I found your comments about UK women humorous.  So, it's ok for men to reject women because they are not model material, but that same guy, with a low income and no home, is supposed to be attractive to a woman who owns her own home?  You're worried about losing half your property to a woman, yet don't see it from the other side.  I think most of the time, when men say they "can't find" good women, it is because they are unrealistic in their expectations, and vice versa.  You can argue until the cows come home that the dating scene is dismal, but it's really just an excuse for you wanting to punch above your weight.

[JayH]

  Trench, you have never raised children, you've never lived with someone else, and you seem to have a very narrow perspective of life.  Divorce often brings out the worst in people who otherwise are of good character.  Most of the time, it's about pain and fear - the pain of loss and rejection, the fear of being alone.   I don't expect you to understand.

A close relationship/marriage is not likely to be all beer & skittles over a longer term! Issues.problems arise in all sorts of ways. They are not always fatal to the relationship - the overall bigger picture of a relationship tends to override .

Funnily enough --when I think of these things it is not with my female long term partners - but --  a now departed long term close male friend ( a mate -- not of the sexual type! for the record!!)
Over many years he was an integral part of my life -- spending a lot of time with me,my family,often staying with us ,dropping in at meal times etc etc   We often travelled overseas together,sharing accommodation often and that was often over weeks at a time.
Later he worked for me .At that time he would stay in my apartment  3/4 days a week too !
Well , the summary is that he drove me crazy--he drove my ex crazy! ( She got on great with him in general terms) He had never been married and mostly had lived on his own --or with his mother -- and with close continual exposure - the habits and mannerisms etc became grating !
Over the years we had developed the habit when travelling of sitting well apart where possible - and after the specific purpose of a trip was concluded -- to go our separate ways . There was only so much time I could contain myself !!!!
He passed away at a premature age  a few years ago now -- and I loved this guy like a brother - and he was 100% in my corner in every aspect of my life.
That all said -- given all the positives of that relationship -it was still with limitations.

On this forum -MrsB often has said that you don't really know someone until you live with them . I agree with that totally ! Note- that does not mean  on a 7 day holiday !
The experience of actually living with someone makes you look at the practical issues involved --it is one thing to allow your little head to rule your thinking and entirely another to use your big head !
Realistically -at some point  allowing your heart some headroom is a good idea !

Given the generalisations made above --I  often despair when I read guys telling us here how time /financially pressed they are and that they have a 7 or 10 day trip to find a wife !!!!!!!


ps  I post for the general interest -- and not to Trenchcoat

[JayH]

I do admit I'm probably too harsh on you. but everytime you write something it is so contradictory to common sense.  That's why so many other members see you as a troll.

And you lashing back with personal insults means I probably hit a sore spot with you.  People don't get that upset if it weren't true.

You saying I don't get action or am putting on a front is really you being hurt.  If I told you my story in Russia you wouldn't believe it anyways. 

Figure out why things aren't going well and change it.  Most people here are turned off by your writing and attitude.  That is a reflection of your character/personality. 

I wouldn't be surprised it is similar in real life.  Learn to be a listener and a friend.  Women like that stuff.  If you are a killjoy it saps the energy out of others.  And unfortunately that is the impression you portray here.

No -- you are being kind  --too kind !

I bolded the part I want to comment on.

For me --making friends is the first step to a potential relationship.
Many years ago( many many!!) when I was divorced and back in circulation as a 20 something yo -- with zero intention of getting married again-- I ran into many women who were intent on doing a marriage interview on dates -often the first date ! Many in their later 20's thought that they were running out of time etc etc. The net result was I focused on younger girls  who were not so intent on immediate marriage as their goal !
I often thought of that time in dealing with fsuw -- and how strange and out of sequence talking of marriage was almost before you had actually met!

So-- that is my preface to my point--- making friends-- and lots of them is a good idea. At no stage have I gone to a first real life meeting thinking "this is the one" ! BTW --the bigger the age difference -- the more likely that will not be anyone else's idea either!!
My purpose --is always to be friendly - that is it.

Out of that -I have become friends with a lot of people in Ukraine -guys as well as girls -friends. Some girls -- attract me as a friend-- not as a partner -for whatever reason/s . Some became that way over time -some immediately with no romantic interaction.

I consider all that as normal .

From meeting and getting along  -- I get to meet their friends and acquaintances,work mates etc etc and get invited to go places -some where it is possible to meet people !

[Sting23]

thanks Jay..it seems that Trench takes everything like a personal attack because he hasn't has much luck, yet won't bother to listening to how to change that.  Oh well.

Sometimes it's better to be friends first and not even have the intention of dating.  I have a few Russian lady friends who are just friends, and we talk about our own dating experiences.  There is no hidden agenda to date them and they don't feel it. 

You made a good point.  When you have real friends they will introduce you to their social circle and single lady friends.  And it helps alot when people are mutual friends as the trust level is higher.

But this takes effort.  I think most posters will agree that Trench bemoans his poor luck way too much and this negative attitude repeals people and is very unattractive. 

[Nightwish]

I never thought I would see one of RWD's Grandees in trouble with their relationship so it's a real shame to see ML's post here. ML you've given me some great advice during my time here so while I don't feel qualified to give you any advice I fear I must.

To my mind the seeds of FSW relationship problems are sown in the early stages of our relationship with them. Often we are totally unaware we are even making them, I was. I think the problem here is your wife has ended up a career woman, this sort of westernisation is almost always a disaster. As Boethius so elequently put across my point on this a few threads back - kinder, kuche, kirsche. Direct a woman to these and few will be your troubles start talking about her career desires early on in meeting a girl and the seeds for future career destruction of your relationship are sown. I fear we may be too far along the railroad tracks for this relationship to be saved ML and there be no alternative than to return to go and start over in the great FSU dating game in search of a new hottie. I wish you well in your endeavours on all of this ML

Why? What kind of compulsive disorder do you have that forces you to give advice about things you know nothing about?

Mental illness? Mom dropped you on the floor as a child to many times? 
That you have some sort of combination of letter disorder I think most have already discovered, you can't express yourself without incoherent rambling , often 2-3 different thoughts in your head at once and almost always unreadable incoherent fantasies in your posts. Always about something you know nothing about but just guess, it's like you think there is a prize here for posting crap.

[msmob]

Couldn't have put it better

Trench - you really do have as much right to post as anyone - but try to make it informed ... or ask questions..

You get trodden on for posting bollox about stuff you don't have a clue about

[Sting23]

Why? What kind of compulsive disorder do you have that forces you to give advice about things you know nothing about?

Mental illness? Mom dropped you on the floor as a child to many times? 
That you have some sort of combination of letter disorder I think most have already discovered, you can't express yourself without incoherent rambling , often 2-3 different thoughts in your head at once and almost always unreadable incoherent fantasies in your posts. Always about something you know nothing about but just guess, it's like you think there is a prize here for posting crap.

hahah..that was a perfect diagnosis of Trench.

[Trenchcoat]

Couldn't have put it better

Trench - you really do have as much right to post as anyone - but try to make it informed ... or ask questions..

You get trodden on for posting bollox about stuff you don't have a clue about

Of course Mobers you are the only one who knows anything

[Trenchcoat]

Why? What kind of compulsive disorder do you have that forces you to give advice about things you know nothing about?

Mental illness? Mom dropped you on the floor as a child to many times? 
That you have some sort of combination of letter disorder I think most have already discovered, you can't express yourself without incoherent rambling , often 2-3 different thoughts in your head at once and almost always unreadable incoherent fantasies in your posts. Always about something you know nothing about but just guess, it's like you think there is a prize here for posting crap.

Simply put the esteem on which I hold ML is too great for me to feel it appropriate but the man's fallen on hard times so much so that I feel I must offer up any offerings of conceivable help that I may. I can only but hope those thoughts will be of use to him and perhaps us all even.

[Nightwish]

Simply put the esteem on which I hold ML is too great for me to feel it appropriate but the man's fallen on hard times so much so that I feel I must offer up any offerings of conceivable help that I may. I can only but hope those thoughts will be of use to him and perhaps us all even.

you call that post you wrote as "giving advice" ?  Seriously?

[Boethius]

Well Trench, your advice sucked big time. You can’t “direct” a person to do anything and hope to have a harmonious relationship.

[msmob]

Of course Mobers you are the only one who knows anything

Most certainly more than you... what with your atrocious relationship 'advice'

You ARE and expert in being long-term single and your opinions simply demonstrate why

Still, you do manage to unite folks in their opinion of you ((

[Boethius]

I don't think anyone listens to any relationship advice.  People know, intuitively, what is best for them, or they need to learn some life lesson by choosing a particular path.  Laying out a variety of options is just food for thought. 


Trenchcoat has been told time and again that if the attitudes toward women he displays here are accurate, they practically guarantee he will not have a happy relationship.  Yet, those obviously are core beliefs for him, and he isn't willing to change them, or to listen to posters who can see his approach will not create a long lasting relationship.  So, he'll learn the message he's been given the hard way, or suffer setbacks and keep doing the same thing.

[Trenchcoat]

I don't think anyone listens to any relationship advice.  People know, intuitively, what is best for them, or they need to learn some life lesson by choosing a particular path.  Laying out a variety of options is just food for thought. 


Trenchcoat has been told time and again that if the attitudes toward women he displays here are accurate, they practically guarantee he will not have a happy relationship.  Yet, those obviously are core beliefs for him, and he isn't willing to change them, or to listen to posters who can see his approach will not create a long lasting relationship.  So, he'll learn the message he's been given the hard way, or suffer setbacks and keep doing the same thing.

But does attitude really matter if a girl is into you, sure it may not always create a harmonious relationship but you could get on perfectly well with each other. Take Donald Trump for instance, some perhaps many of his attitudes many may find disagreeable, but he has a wife etc that stand by him, he doesn't remain dateless.

Attitude is known to be one of the hardest things to change with somebody, its why we keep arguing from the same standpoint we adopt on here. Is Moby likely to change his opinion on Brexit and his stance on Remain however so much we argue, certainly not. Just the same as I am not going to change my position on Brexit & Leave but we keep arguing over it.

That said while my attitude remains the same on here, there are/were of course things I did/do not know about FSU dating so I ask a question. The responses may differ, often it takes further examination discussion & argument for OP to determine what is right. Others may come to a different conclusion to the OP or have other knowledge or experience that may tell them otherwise. I don't think its peoples attitudes that a person comes here looking to be set/reset for them but gaps in knowledge/lack of knowledge that they want/need filling in order to make sense of the situation at hand.

I think its people with opposing attitudes that causes such angst on here rather than the courses of action being weighed up.   

[Boethius]

Of course attitude matters. Your attitude suggests the FSU is not somewhere you should be looking for a spouse.

Donald Trump is on marriage #3, and has allegedly cheated on all of his wives. His second wife cheated on him, wife #3, based on photos, can barely stand him and rumours are, was an escort. Is that the model of marital success you wish to emulate? 

[tfcrew]

Donald Trump... has allegedly cheated...

Kind of like Bill Clinton huh?

I didn't really want to be first lady

[Boethius]

Bill Clinton wasn’t held up as an example to emulate. Donald “grab them by the pussy” Trump was.

[Boethius]

Maybe too young. What is the age difference?

Not very big.

To further add, I think one of the main things you have to think of Kyn is that over there there are few decent men, bring her back here however and she will have a lot of choice. You've already told us you don't finish first with women in this country and given the dating situation of females having the upper hand dating in this country you're not in an uncommon position. However, its only a matter of time until she sees that if you brought her back her. If she's into you enough she may stay or she may decide one of the competition is so much better than you.

You're idea of studying over there is not a bad one that you mention in another thread but remember you are not providing whilst you are studying, unless you can find a source if income as well at the same time.

I've just brought up the pic off her now that I'm on my laptop, she is kind of attractive in a studious sort of way. I think you would have to at least bring her up on Skype or travel to see her to get a better all round idea of her. Your earning potential is something you need to start thinking of now as well I think as being a student is often restrictive on this and to hold much esteem for a FSW you generally need at least a basic income if not better. That's my thoughts anyway.

Just stop, Trench.  Your posts prove you know virtually nothing of the FSU, you don't know the men there, and you are making sweeping statements on their characters.  I can assure you, I know 1000X the number of FSUM that you do, and of all those men, I can count on my fingers those that are drunkards, are untrustworthy (usually go hand in hand), or would be bad husbands.  When in Kyiv last summer (2017), I can't tell you how many families I saw walking in parks, or having picnics, typically, with the father preparing shashlik.  Here, I routinely see FSUM shopping with their wives and children.  So this idea that there are few decent men is a fairy tale told to stupid Westerners to manipulate them.

There is ZERO lack of quality men in the FSU who are under 35 years of age - exactly the demographic you and kyn are pursuing.  That is a fact.

[Trenchcoat]

Not very big.

Just stop, Trench.  Your posts prove you know virtually nothing of the FSU, you don't know the men there, and you are making sweeping statements on their characters.  I can assure you, I know 1000X the number of FSUM that you do, and of all those men, I can count on my fingers those that are drunkards, are untrustworthy (usually go hand in hand), or would be bad husbands.  When in Kyiv last summer (2017), I can't tell you how many families I saw walking in parks, or having picnics, typically, with the father preparing shashlik.  Here, I routinely see FSUM shopping with their wives and children.  So this idea that there are few decent men is a fairy tale told to stupid Westerners to manipulate them.

There is ZERO lack of quality men in the FSU who are under 35 years of age - exactly the demographic you and kyn are pursuing.  That is a fact.

The last girl I was with told me the guys in Kherson that are left are all either druggies, stupid, mental, low lifes, alcoholics, etc - essentially the dreggs of society. I'm guessing there is not a great economic climate there with post Soviet industrial degeneration. I kind of got the feeling she was being straight up in this regard - after all why go looking for a guy abroad, you certainly don't get the same number of European women looking abroad as those from the FSU for example, so there must be a real reason they look abroad. I see little reason for her to manipulate me on this aspect there is little for her to gain in doing so, in fact more likely to lose, if I think there are loads of women there in a similar situation I may go there to please myself with any number of them.

[Boethius]

The last girl I was with told me the guys in Kherson that are left are all either druggies, stupid, mental, low lifes, alcoholics, etc - essentially the dreggs of society. I'm guessing there is not a great economic climate there with post Soviet industrial degeneration. I kind of got the feeling she was being straight up in this regard - after all why go looking for a guy abroad, you certainly don't get the same number of European women looking abroad as those from the FSU for example, so there must be a real reason they look abroad. I see little reason for her to manipulate me on this aspect there is little for her to gain in doing so, in fact more likely to lose, if I think there are loads of women there in a similar situation I may go there to please myself with any number of them.

So what do you expect her to tell you?  "Decent men don't want me."???  It's just like your rationale of all UK women being fat, which is untrue.

We heard the same rationales from women from the Baltics, another "MOB" stomping ground, right up to the date the Baltics were admitted to the EU, at which point, the "MOB" industry there dried up.  With EU membership, did the men suddenly become sober?  More desirable?  Or did all the women suddenly leave of their own accord?  You're a little old to believing in these fairy tales.

[Trenchcoat]

So what do you expect her to tell you?  "Decent men don't want me."???  It's just like your rationale of all UK women being fat, which is untrue.

We heard the same rationales from women from the Baltics, another "MOB" stomping ground, right up to the date the Baltics were admitted to the EU, at which point, the "MOB" industry there dried up.  With EU membership, did the men suddenly become sober?  More desirable?  Or did all the women suddenly leave of their own accord?  You're a little old to believing in these fairy tales.

So why the difference in the Baltics before and after EU membership?

Well I know with the last girl decent guys would pass over her where she lives because of her materialism - wanting then to buy her stuff. Pretty much all western guys would also. I think there is some truth in there being some dregs there just as there is in fat girls here but it is perhaps not as numerous as thought in both cases perhaps. If you are correct and there is generally some other reason they are looking abroad then the big question is 'why?'

I guessing if we reject the 'no decent members if the opposite sex' trail of thought then we are most probably suggesting that in many a case there is some reason for that person being single - a difficult aspect of their personality in some way perhaps most likely. Which is then a question of asking ourselves weather we as an individual can successfully deal with this difficult personality trait. So with Kyn it would vd a case of him finding out what the real deal is with the girl he is going to see is in still being single & hence looking abroad.

[Boethius]

So why the difference in the Baltics before and after EU membership?

Why do you think?

Well I know with the last girl decent guys would pass over her where she lives because of her materialism - wanting then to buy her stuff. Pretty much all western guys would also. I think there is some truth in there being some dregs there just as there is in fat girls here but it is perhaps not as numerous as thought in both cases perhaps. If you are correct and there is generally some other reason they are looking abroad then the big question is 'why?'

For young women not married before, many reasons - more material wealth, easier life, an ability to move forward in the society, a different way of life.  One of the posters here said she knew she couldn't find what she was looking for there - I knew exactly what she meant, and it doesn't mean all the men there are bad, nor that she was bad, or that she couldn't find a partner there, or was looking for a mule.  There was just a misalignment in what she wanted in life, and the expectations of, or what the society she came from, found desirable.

I guessing if we reject the 'no decent members if the opposite sex' trail of thought then we are most probably suggesting that in many a case there is some reason for that person being single - a difficult aspect of their personality in some way perhaps most likely. Which is then a question of asking ourselves weather we as an individual can successfully deal with this difficult personality trait. So with Kyn it would vd a case of him finding out what the real deal is with the girl he is going to see is in still being single & hence looking abroad.

Wow, an 18 year old girl is single.  Stop the presses!

You are going to find exactly what you are trying to avoid, because that is what you are looking for. 

[JayH]

Why do you think?

Can you ask an easier question for him?

[Trenchcoat]

Why do you think?

For young women not married before, many reasons - more material wealth, easier life, an ability to move forward in the society, a different way of life.  One of the posters here said she knew she couldn't find what she was looking for there - I knew exactly what she meant, and it doesn't mean all the men there are bad, nor that she was bad, or that she couldn't find a partner there.  There was just a misalignment in what she wanted in life, and the expectations of, or what the society she came from, found desirable.

Wow, an 18 year old girl is single.  Stop the presses!

You are going to find exactly what you are trying to avoid, because that is what you are looking for.

I've no idea about the baltic/EU thing Boe, you brought it up after all.

Ok, so Kyn's girl desires western lifestyle/society, where does that leave him? Facing a possible immigration mule situation? Yes many 18 year old girls can be single but the good ones don't remain so for long, plus few in the west look abroad for a guy.

Are you trying to tell me I'm looking for a materialis tic girl?

[Boethius]

Because when women could emigrate with their men, they didn't need Western husbands anymore.  That doesn't mean they weren't good wives to their Western husbands, just that the means to a better material life, or the life they believed they desired, was available directly.

Why do you assume that because a woman wants to live in the West, she is looking for a mule?  Women who don't want to emigrate aren't open to marrying WM, unless the man is willing to move to her country.  This idea you have always espoused, of looking for a woman who doesn't want to move, is, frankly, stupid.

Eighteen year old girls often remain single for a long time, maybe even a decade or more.

I'm saying you are going to find what you fear.  Life usually works like that, in my observation.  It's the universe giving you what you want, or need.