Life Changes...Part Deux

[Doll]

Even if Doll and other RW come forth to tell me the kind of RW I'm looking for is rare in the USA, I won't believe them because I've dated more RW than they 

The truth is - I've not dated RW at all 

[Misha]

Misha, if you are thrilled with your marriage and think it's perfect, why do you get so worked up when I search for something differently in my life and the women in my life appreciate the kind of guy I am?

Because, unfortunately, men who happen to marry RW tend to get lumped into the same boat. The stereotype is that any man who marries a RW was looking for a submissive wife because he wants to be "THE MAN." So, I counter what you say by pointing out that it is possible to be a man and still believe that a marriage should be based on fairness and equality.

I also want to point out that the ideal that you seek is quite rare to say the least. Many men seem to believe that RW are sooooo different than AW and are seemingly submissive, waiting for a strong man to march in and lead their lives. I am pointing out that this is rarely if ever the case and that if a man seeks this he risks being very unpleasantly disappointed. 

Why do you accuse the ladies in my life of being submissive when in fact they may do things for me simply because they care about me? Maybe they care about me because I sincerely care about them?

Actually, I don't think they are submissive. I am questioning your goal of finding a woman to be your student.

Start a thread and dedicate it to your wife and tell the World why she is so great and makes you feel like a MAN. So far I'm not convinced you're happy in your marriage because you're spending a lot of time on the internet being grumpy. I hope Doll too would be inspired to create a thread on why her husband is wonderful.

LOL! I spend time on the internet to take the occasional break from paperwork. You call it grumpy, I call it challenging the stereotypes that are too often passed off as absolute truths on forums.

I am a happy man.

Good for you.

No matter what you say about RW based off your experience, you're not going to scare me away from them. Even if Doll and other RW come forth to tell me the kind of RW I'm looking for is rare in the USA, I won't believe them because I've dated more RW than they and they

You should not conflate dating and marriage Billy. A woman has different expectations when dating than when she is actually married. What a woman says on her first date should be taken with a grain of salt IMHO.

Don't be jealous. Figure out what you need to do to make your wife/gf happy enough to want to feed you with her own hands too.

Why should I be jealous? But, if it flatters your ego to think so, knock yourself out. To be honest, I prefer a nice long bike ride with my wife than being fed. Sorry, being fed by hand does not really do much for me.

[Doll]

  Before somebody says something I am going to define this "take him into my soul". It is very irrational and very Russian- accept the person with all his (her) pluses and minuses. J. is "my  boy" - both when he is good or bad. We (Russians) call it "regardless". Regardless what he does or thinks, he is mine and I am going to keep him.
So, without opening my own thread, I am talking of my husband.
BTW, we've been married for 8+ years and counting.

[BillyB]

I also want to point out that the ideal that you seek is quite rare to say the least.

Why do you keep feeling a need to say that? You question SMS's experiences as lacking but when someone as myself who does have experience yet thinks differently, you feel a need to repeat your opinion over and over to educate me as if I have no experience. Unlike some newbies, you've been around here long enough to know my background.

I have been nonstop involvement with RW since 1998 in short term, long term relationships, friendships and marriage. I speak with RW daily and see them almost daily right here in America and see them much more often than my male and AW friends combined. The kind of woman that makes me happy is not rare. Most of my RW dates come back for more and I ask the ladies out for more dates because I'm happy with my experience with them too.

I could get married to some RW right now but because of different beliefs that could range from religious to ideology it is preventing me from popping the question.

Many of the RW I see are real sweethearts and this is not basing it off one date. I've known some long enough they leave their door unlocked for me when they know I"m coming or let me stay the night in their home. Many of them are sincere good people and I am sure many will stay sincere and will not change into a different person after marriage as Misha wants you to believe. Not all RW are deceptive in that way. Misha, I don't know if you're really happy in your marriage or pretending to be but you're not going to change my mind that most RW are going to MAN handle their MAN. I will agree that if a man is willing to let himself get ran over, he can find a RW to do the job.

[GQBlues]

We (Russians) call it "regardless". Regardless what he does or thinks, he is mine and I am going to keep him. So, without opening my own thread, I am talking of my husband.

Sorry doll, your post and this thread reminded me of this , LOL.

[Ade]

Seems to me that Billy has a very peculiar idea of what living in an equal partnership is actually like...

Billy, I'm curious if you've ever had a situation where you've had to take major decisions with one of your girlfriends about something very important and something you disagreed about? Or are all these posts just rhetoric of idealised imaginary situations of you having the final say? If not I'm sure I'm not the only one that's interested in hearing what it was about and how that went for you.

[Doll]

Sorry doll, your post and this thread reminded me of this , LOL.

[Doll]

Seems to me that Billy has a very peculiar idea of what living in an equal partnership is actually like...

Billy, I'm curious if you've ever had a situation where you've had to take major decisions with one of your girlfriends about something very important and something you disagreed about? Or are all these posts just rhetoric of idealised imaginary situations of you having the final say? If not I'm sure I'm not the only one that's interested in hearing what it was about and how that went for you.

Oh, please! See how often Billy refers to sex? 

[Blues Fairy]

Billy, I'm curious if you've ever had a situation where you've had to take major decisions with one of your girlfriends about something very important

Because the other 10% of the time can be bad or fatal. Baseboard heater touching couch equals fire. Hanging something heavy on the wall without a stud available for the nail/screw to anchor on is bad. Sheetrock is nice but not strong enough for heavy items. How many examples do you want? 

 

I'm still waiting for him to admit that he assumes HIS OWN decisions are safe and right 100% of the time. 

[Misha]

I have been nonstop involvement with RW since 1998 in short term, long term relationships, friendships and marriage.

That is right, you were married to a woman from Ukraine. Did she agree with you philosophy? Did she accept you being being responsible for all the decisions in your household?

[Ade]

I'm still waiting for him to admit that he assumes HIS OWN decisions are safe and right 100% of the time. 

Billy seems a little naive and his world view looks just a little too simplistic to be true; working penis + DIY skills = harmonious relationship.   

But seriously Billy, I think your idea of what is and isn't a strong or submissive person just seems a little off to me. A strong intelligent woman would be the last person that would allow anyone to have an unconditional say about their life. I know that there are some women that do welcome turning over the decision making process to their partner but you have to realise that this type of woman is submissive by definition and it's definitely a rather large sign of insecurity if nothing else. And talking about insecurity, you seem to exhibit certain signs of that yourself when you require absolute authority in a relationship even when it's coated in the "real man" rationalisation.

[BillyB]

That is right, you were married to a woman from Ukraine. Did she agree with you philosophy? Did she accept you being being responsible for all the decisions in your household?

Yes, she agreed with my philosophy and if anything it wasn't enough, she wanted me to be more of a MAN.

Misha, and I see RW differently and it's quite possible we're both right. You think most RW wants complete equality in a relationship and I think most RW want a leader in the relationship.

I had a conversations with one of the RW I'm dating a few months ago. We were laying down and she was shaking her head at me and said:

RW: Why did I ever get involved with you?

Me: Yeah, I've wondered why you got involved with me? We are completely different in many ways.

RW: I like you because you're kind, caring, bla, bla, bla..... and you can handle me.

 

Here's a woman some men may think is tough to handle but with me, she cooks for me, cuddles with me, tickles me, and willing to have sex with me everday, even multiple times a day. I don't have sex with her everyday because I already told her we are just friends and it's not likely going to go further than that since we are very different people.

Why is this woman different with me acting excited all the time willing to please me playing a traditional role as a woman yet with other guys would want an equal partnership and with other guys she may act bitchy and running them over? The woman I am referring too would not want to be in a relationship with a child that she has to constantly tell him what to do and how life works. Many RW have told me they don't want a child.

I think we all have the ability to change our behavior depending on what kind of gf/wife we have in our lives. Some men around women get more aggressive, others get soft.

GQ, funny video and I know some of you and other posters seriously think that the women I run with have to be stupid and desperate to accept a traditional role of a woman but the woman I just spoke of who would do most anything for me is 5 years younger than I and is a physician and surgeon and was an athlete in her younger days. I though I don't agree with her liberal views, I can't deny that she is very intelligent. There are other women I'm dating that have Master and Bachelors degrees besides PhD.

See how often Billy refers to sex?    

Doll, I've talked to enough RW and heard their complaints about past lovers or the current lovers of their friends to understand it really affects them for better or worse. Without a healthy physical relationship, you have only a friendship with the person. I mention it often because the girls talk a lot to me and their friends about it usually in the form of a complaint and some guys and women living in their own World need to understand the importance of sex for their partner and if anybody is current having no or "dead horse" sex there are problems withing the relationship due to poor physical performance or other things such as lack of emotional bonding, lack of attention outside the bedroom, etc...

Sometimes old age plays a role in reduced sex drives but that does not mean those couples have problems with their relationship.

Too bad you're married Doll. We could have had something special. I guarantee you wouldn't hate me so much if you met me because I would bring out the WOMAN in you.

I'm still waiting for him to admit that he assumes HIS OWN decisions are safe and right 100% of the time.  

Bluesfairy, I'm right 100% of the time. Are you happy now.  When I make a decision on something, there's usually a good sound reason behind it. If I don't have the answer, I will educate myself to get the answer instead of guessing. RW that know me appreciate the fact I'm honest with myself, them and that I'm not going to guess on something that may have disastrous results. I have the ability to be right most of the time because I understand I don't have all the answers.

When I was in school, I scored in the top 1% in the nation on some of those tests they administer nationwide. When I was 16, the US military wrote my parents and asked them permission to speak to me so they can recruit me as an officer in their nuclear program. I have not told any RW I'm dating this but they after they talk to me, they sense I do have a brain upstairs and eventually it'll give them confidence that I know what I'm talking about.

Maybe some of you RW think my thread will help a guy out as he may be inspired to self improve and improve his dating skills with ladies or maybe some of you RW think I'm shooting my mouth off with little value coming out of it but if you were still in the market to find a man, you would be looking at a mans brains, physical performance, evaluating how he would take care of you and the children and how good of a provider he is among other things that could range from his looks to beliefs. If you met me, I'm confident most of you won't regret it. I rarely talk about myself with the ladies I know and nowhere near the amount of talking as I've done about myself in this thread. Most of the complaints I get is that I don't talk enough or call them enough or spend time with them enough.... but I'm a good listener and ladies like that since they like to talk.

[Misha]

Misha, and I see RW differently and it's quite possible we're both right. You think most RW wants complete equality in a relationship and I think most RW want a leader in the relationship.

Personally, I don't know many RW who would willingly accept that a man make all the decisions and would accept that all decisions that they made could be overruled by their husband. Sure, they may accept it for a while, they might even like it for a short time, but I can't see any RW that I know here in Canada or in Russia willingly giving over control of their lives to their husbands.

[Daveman]

Well, none of us know what women really *want*, and the ones who truly know the least about what women *want* are the women themselves. Why? because they are hippocampus driven creatures wanting whatever they *feel* at the moment.   

Women want a leader. Women want a man they can't push around, but who they feel is a wild stallion whom only they can tame.   Women want that confident, self assured alpha male.  Women also want control of themselves.  Who cares what "they" want?  Be who you are, whoever/whatever that is and find a woman who fits that.

Of course women want the men to *think* the man makes the decision, because that being the case, she can always point and say "you were wrong" without ever having to take responsibility for a wrong decision.   :evil:

The second UW I dated was about as submissive as they come.  It was neither bad nor boring, just a huge responsibility to have to decide everything myself from where to go, what to do, what I want her to cook today.. no joke.. I mean, she wasn't stupid by any stretch, but just liked to be in that role.  I found that sometimes I just don't give a damn what to do/eat and want her to surprise me..

To me, this topic is really a dead horse beater because of course women don't want a controlling idiot, and of course women want a strong man who can make decisions, and of course they want the confident alpha male.  And of course they have no clue what they want because it varies according to the situation and what they feel at the time.  And of course we'll never really get them because we approach life, relations, and situations in very different ways.

[Misha]

And of course we'll never really get them because we approach life, relations, and situations in very different ways.

IMHO, what women want may change from the morning to the afternoon to the evening. The challenge is being flexible. Even the "submissive" woman may want to have her say from time to time, and if the man is not willing to ever compromise his "philosophy" that will eventually lead to a pretty messy train wreck....

[Blues Fairy]

Bluesfairy, I'm right 100% of the time. Are you happy now.  When I make a decision on something, there's usually a good sound reason behind it. If I don't have the answer, I will educate myself to get the answer instead of guessing. RW that know me appreciate the fact I'm honest with myself, them and that I'm not going to guess on something that may have disastrous results. I have the ability to be right most of the time because I understand I don't have all the answers.

So you don't have all the answers but are able to educate yourself and find them, that's fine.  What makes you think those RW can't do exactly the same?  

Suppose a "final say" is urgently required in some matter of importance (think a bit wider that household issues), and you still don't have the answer but your woman might have.  Will you still insist that she wait for your final say, so you can take the time to educate yourself on the issue and check the correctness of her decision?

[BillyB]

Well, none of us know what women really *want*, and the ones who truly know the least about what women *want* are the women themselves. Why? because they are hippocampus driven creatures wanting whatever they *feel* at the moment.  

What women "feels" can depend on the man that stands next to her.

Man #1 after dating 10 RW says "All RW are biatches that use men and throw them away"

Man #2 after dating the same 10 RW says "All RW want equality within their relationship with a man"

Man #3 after dating the same 10 RW says "I'm thrilled with RW because they treat me like a king"

Based on how the 3 men are and how they behaved with RW, they all got different results. They will come to this forum and tell you they are right in their assessment of RW based off experience and... they are right.


I received a call today from a RW. She was crying. She was going to court today against an ex who hasn't returned her stuff since the divorce a year ago. She wanted to save money from using an attorney and do it herself. Last month I asked her what steps she used to prepare for court and notify her ex. I was not satisfied with her answer. I told her I don't have the answer but I told her where to go to get the answer. She is not my woman so it was her option to listen to me or not. She did not listen so now she learned she wasted a months time and will have to start over since the judge dismissed the case.

I will see her tonight to give her sympathy. I will take the high road and not tell her "I told you so" but I know she is learning to value my words more and more.

The Russian college gal and her friend are arriving to America in a few days. They will stay with some friends in NY and then buy a ticket to my city later. If the RW buys the ticket to my city, I will know that she's serious about me. There are no guarantees that this will happen so that is why I didn't put my life on hold for her.

I told the Russian college gal I will give her all my attention when she arrives and she is happy about it. I will also tell her I have female friends and that they may need my help occasionally. I think she's a good enough person to let me stay in contact with other females. Any physical contact I have with other RW will stop. If I have to cut off all contact with them, I know of at least 2 RW that will cry. This will be a touchy situation and the RW I'm dating may not like me at this time but they will respect me. Once I make a commitment to someone, I will not cheat on that person and play games with other women. The RW may be disappointed that I did not choose them but my guess is that if I'm available again, they'd be happy to have me in their lives again.

[Misha]

What women "feels" can depend on the man that stands next to her.

Man #1 after dating 10 RW says "All RW are biatches that use men and throw them away"

Man #2 after dating the same 10 RW says "All RW want equality within their relationship with a man"

Man #3 after dating the same 10 RW says "I'm thrilled with RW because they treat me like a king"

Based on how the 3 men are and how they behaved with RW, they all got different results. They will come to this forum and tell you they are right in their assessment of RW based off experience and... they are right.

And what is your point? What is it that you conclude?

[BillyB]

And what is your point? What is it that you conclude?

I conclude most RW are sweet, kind, generous, like to cook, take good care of their house guests and I feel like a king when I'm with them.

[Misha]

I conclude most RW are sweet, kind, generous, like to cook, take good care of their house guests and I feel like a king when I'm with them.

Sure, this applies to many RW. It does not apply to others. Also, you have to distinguish the treatment of a guest, with that of a husband after many years of marriage. Guests are always treated differently than members of a family.

[BillyB]

Also, you have to distinguish the treatment of a guest, with that of a husband after many years of marriage. Guests are always treated differently than members of a family.

I distinguish a lot of things otherwise I'd be rushing to marriage with a lady simply because she treats ME special. Some of the ladies have different views on life and how the World should run. Some ladies treat me special but they may treat people of lower social status than themselves like garbage. I watch how a woman treats others more than myself. A RW cooking me a meal and filling up my belly isn't the only thing I care about.

[GQBlues]

To me, this topic is really a dead horse beater because of course women don't want a controlling idiot, and of course women want a strong man who can make decisions, and of course they want the confident alpha male.  And of course they have no clue what they want because it varies according to the situation and what they feel at the time.  And of course we'll never really get them because we approach life, relations, and situations in very different ways.

Yeppers, so when all is said and done, it's taken my wife a while (4 years) for her to get her foot planted firmly in this society (for the most part) and established her sense of worth as a person today. I do believe my wife and I have reached a point in our relationship where we bring out the very best out of each other. Largely because, I feel, she is confident about her sense of self which feeds her ability to clearly express her views and perspective during times we discussed decision-making situations. There were times her expressed view on things do in fact carried very valid point/s WHICH changed the course of the decisions we made and we were BOTH ultmately the better for it. I can only hope she carries these experiences, not only for the health of our relationship, but for her own self as well.

Today, I can find comfort knowing there may come a time, heaven forbid, where she may need to make a crucial decision alone for the welfare of our relationship and I can maintain my cofidence she can face that challenge to the best of her ability. I 'trust and respect' her that much today.

But one of the more significant result in our personal time together is likely also the most basic and elemental segment of our relationship's growth, and that is, my wife believes beyond a shadow of doubt her opinion and individuality matter as much in our marriage as do mine.

Anyway, that's how it is in my household now, for better or for worst; and goshdarnit I am danged good with that! Just one married couple's reality out of millions that exist in this world today....

btw, on the video...

I thought it was hysterical when she first said...

"...I like a little fat on my man...and hair on back...' Accent and all, LOL.

[Jumper]

This will be a touchy situation and the RW I'm dating may not like me at this time but they will respect me. Once I make a commitment to someone, I will not cheat on that person and play games with other women. The RW may be disappointed that I did not choose them but my guess is that if I'm available again, they'd be happy to have me in their lives again.

BillyB-
i'd like something clarified .. 
you really believe that a woman you are seriously dating now (you said they would cry,so at least they are serious)
 will *respect* you bringing over two college girls to live with you on the grounds that you have a romantic "commitment"  to one of them. .even though you earlier said it wasn't a commimted relationship  since you havn't met ,and i may not even happen.

yes every woman loves not only to be second fiddle to the manly man billyb.
 but they respect his alpha male ways of telling them they will just have to wait their turn.
(in case the young college girls don't show up, or it doesn't work out)
They may very well understand you , that's different than respecting  those choices.
and i would say that just because these women may hold degrees ,doesn't mean they are smart , or are not emotionally crippled.

Any normal woman,(russian or any other nationality)
that has good social skills and options in the dating area,
if she was dating you and emotionally invested (again you said she might cry)
 would just as likely laugh at you if you called her again after your student exchange project ,
regardless if you have a magical penis.
If they put up with it ,it is very very  unlikely they  respect it .

I understand that we all have our own experiences and opinions on RW..
but readers need to balance what you are implying ...
That *if* a guy is just MANLY enough ,she will find that normal and acceptable and look forawrd to your call at a later date in time..

 Certainly most RW (who as a generality tend to run a bit jealous,and  often have great pride that is easily bruised) 
would NOT be "ok" with that scenario ,regardless your manliness, or respect you for it.

Being a  decisive man is good  advise , i doubt many here need it if they have any world experience?
but being that man , isn't going to drastically change  the "general" attitude (russian) women would have about your proposed  scenario.
 
Billyb having some  women in your life that will put up with that ,and  still care for you .. (and possible respect you ,but not your actions)

that in itself , is not at all  unusual !!!


but to  imply that RW in *general* find a REAL Man so irresistible,(and with such respect and high regard) that  they will play second string, or bench warmer..   



We are all individuals ,and so i hate generalizations.

but this is a pretty safe one ,
women* in general* that you are romatically involved with , even casually ,will
not *respect you* for  bringing over a couple of female college students to live with you in the hopes of being involved with one of them.

So let me ask?
These VERY same RW billyb,  when in still residing and dating in Russia-
would have been fine with some Russian man they cared for, bringing over a couple of french college girls to live with him right?

Their deep respect for the intelligent macho  RM ,would still be intact..
and they would be  happy to hear from him again if things did  not work  out.

[BillyB]

but to  imply that RW in *general* find a REAL Man so irresistible,(and with such respect and high regard) that  they will play second string, or bench warmer..   

Some RW may think of a real MAN as a guy who has great character, personality, takes care of business in life and others may think of a real MAN as a guy who has a great body, power or money.

Those men have the ability to have RW Mistresses on the side if they want to cheat on a woman they are in a relationship with. You imply no RW want to be #2 but you know it's true and happens a lot in the FSU. Many women would rather be #2 to a MAN than the #1 woman to man will less than desireable qualities.

Yes, some women will cry if I end my friendship with them. It doesn't matter if I enter into a relationship with a woman younger or older than I, I still am the same guy and if it doesn't work out with a lady I enter into a relationship with, I am the same guy. If a woman I once went out with doesn't want to go out with me again, the problem lies with her and her jealousy because I certainly haven't changed and will always be the same guy they once enjoyed being around. Today I feel they are my friends. Tomorrow I may want more serious relationships with them. Some men and women fall in love at first sight, others may fall in love with a person over time.

I have no problem if any of the ladies that I date tell they found another man. I don't even think about if a lady is dating other men because it's their right and I don't feel threatened that I will lose her. If the other man is more suitable for them, I will be happy and wish the lady(s) well. If their relationship with the other man doesn't work out, I will certainly date them again. I wouldn't feel like I'm second string or playing a bench warmer.

I would never put a woman into a second string or benchwarmer postion. The RW I know are my friends first. When I am in a commited relationship with a woman, I will tell all my friends that and I will have no physical contact with them even if they pressured me. They will not play a #2 role with me because I will not allow it.

The guys currently writing a woman in the FSU need to understand she may be dating other men and sleeping with them until she finds her #1 and only. Some women will not put their life on hold for a man who may or may not show up in 6 months.

[Misha]

Many women would rather be #2 to a MAN than the #1 woman to man will less than desireable qualities.

Sure, some women in Russia might, if they are getting something in return (money, career advancement, etc...).

However, most women IMHO, as AJ rightfully states would never tolerate such a thing. Also, the younger and more attractive a woman is living in North America, the less likely she will play second fiddle. A woman would have to be emotionally damaged or have some major self-esteem issues to even consider such a thing.

Finally, what will you do if the young women who will be living with you apply the same principles to you? What if they start dating younger men that they will naturally meet once in the USA?