Of course, the CIA wants to topple Russia

[AC]

Why Putin and his minions want to establish these banana republics in Ukraine:

Pardon however I don't get it.  What is there that Putin wants?  Thank-you.

[Boethius]

Bias in your eyes only, FT.  It is because you don't understand what is happening in the Donbass, why, and you have no understanding of the history of Russia and Ukraine.

[Boethius]

Do you think that communism in the USSR collapsed because it is simply an inherently unworkable system; or because it is unworkable in Russia because of Russian cultural tendencies; or it is simply unworkable because of human tendencies in general (ie when there is an elite group of people in power at the top, they abuse their power)?  Or only because of an attempt to be in an arms race with the West, which cost enormous amounts of money?

It is an unworkable system as implemented, because it fails to consider human drives. 

[Anotherkiwi]

Pardon however I don't get it.  What is there that Putin wants?  Thank-you.

Oil and gas.

[Doll]

Oil and gas.

Where is oil in Ukraine?

[Anotherkiwi]

Where is oil in Ukraine?

Plenty in both east and west Ukraine, even if, at the moment, Ukraine is a net importer.  There's also a lot more believed to be offshore, access to which has naturally been blocked since Russia's annexation of Crimea.

[Doll]

Plenty in both east and west Ukraine, even if, at the moment, Ukraine is a net importer.  There's also a lot more believed to be offshore, access to which has naturally been blocked since Russia's annexation of Crimea.

Yes, I did check it.
Not sure if Russia used any of this before the conflict.

[Anotherkiwi]

Yes, I did check it.
Not sure if Russia used any of this before the conflict.

Maybe not, but it would be handy to have!

[fathertime]

Bias in your eyes only, FT.  It is because you don't understand what is happening in the Donbass, why, and you have no understanding of the history of Russia and Ukraine.

Actually I do have some book understanding of Russian/Ukraine history and the geography.  I don't claim to be an authority on it though. 


 For this particular point, there is no need to have an understanding of ancient history to know that if indeed Russian companies are forced to use/create their own Oil Services companies because of US sanctions then they will emerge in a stronger position long term by doing this.  I don't see how that point can even be argued. 


Fathertime!   

[Anotherkiwi]

...For this particular point, there is no need to have an understanding of ancient history to know that if indeed Russian companies are forced to use/create their own Oil Services companies because of US sanctions then they will emerge in a stronger position long term by doing this.  I don't see how that point can even be argued. 


Fathertime!

Nobody is arguing with you on this point!  The quotes made by Boethius did NOT refer to the situation now, but to statements made by Soviet governments many years ago.  Get it?

[fathertime]

Nobody is arguing with you on this point!  The quotes made by Boethius did NOT refer to the situation now, but to statements made by Soviet governments many years ago.  Get it?

How do you know what she was commenting on?  She responded to the point I made.  and you must have not noticed the initial response which indicates a discounting of the likely fact that RUssia's long term position is stregthened by becoming more self sufficient. To me that indicates doubt regarding Russia in the CURRENT situation.   

They said the same thing in the 1970's, the 1980's, and the 1990's.  We can see for ourselves how prescient they were.

[Drew]

It is an unworkable system as implemented, because it fails to consider human drives.

Yes, that is it put very concisely.

It is sheer stupidity to think that a system would work where everyone was supposed to share outputs essentially equally without consideration as to the inputs the individual provided.

When there is no reward for working harder, etc., then there will be little incentive to do so.

The idea of communism does however have great appeal to those who don't plan to pull their fare share of the load, yet share equally in the load.

[Boethius]

Kiwi is correct in his interpretation of what I posted.

[Doll]

No doubt, the situation with sanctions will make Russia stronger.
They will have some hard time for about a year but in the long run Russian economics will benefit.
All Russian farmers are happy already.)))
I talked (yesterday) to a woman in Russia- people are calm, no panic, there is a LOT of food in the stores and on the farmes' markets (local or from Asia which much better).
Russia has HUGE potential and strong spirit.
 
One more time- since 1970 (that Boe mentioned) and NOW the difference is huge.
 

[Anotherkiwi]

Kiwi is correct in his interpretation of what I posted.

Thank you! 

[Shadow]

Yes, that is it put very concisely.

It is sheer stupidity to think that a system would work where everyone was supposed to share outputs essentially equally without consideration as to the inputs the individual provided.

When there is no reward for working harder, etc., then there will be little incentive to do so.

The idea of communism does however have great appeal to those who don't plan to pull their fare share of the load, yet share equally in the load.

It seems to work in Star Trek 

[Anotherkiwi]

No doubt, the situation with sanctions will make Russia stronger.
They will have some hard time for about a year but in the long run Russian economics will benefit.
All Russian farmers are happy already.)))
I talked (yesterday) to a woman in Russia- people are calm, no panic, there is a LOT of food in the stores and on the farmes' markets (local or from Asia which much better).
Russia has HUGE potential and strong spirit.
 
One more time- since 1970 (that Boe mentioned) and NOW the difference is huge.

I'm glad that you feel that Russia will eventually be able to stand on its own two feet, Doll.  However, it cannot survive as a stand-alone economy in the modern world.  Imports and exports will have to continue - who the suppliers and customers are may be slightly more problematic, because the invasion of Ukraine will turn many more countries against it (even if those other countries moderate sanctions to accommodate appease their own exporters).

[fathertime]

I'm glad that you feel that Russia will eventually be able to stand on its own two feet, Doll.  However, it cannot survive as a stand-alone economy in the modern world.  Imports and exports will have to continue - who the suppliers and customers are may be slightly more problematic, because the invasion of Ukraine will turn many more countries against it (even if those other countries moderate sanctions to accommodate appease their own exporters).

Russia will have other nations that are friendly towards them, like China.  In addition, basic needs of their people can be met.  It is not ideal, but I don't believe they will be 'starved out'.


Fathertime!   

[Shadow]

Russia will have other nations that are friendly towards them, like China.  In addition, basic needs of their people can be met.  It is not ideal, but I don't believe they will be 'starved out'.


Fathertime!

Well lets see... our frinds in the suburbs have their own chickens, two cows and two goats. They get from their patch vegetables, potatoes, apples. With their neighbours they exchange eggs and milk for other products, like the shaslick meat we ate.
Of course this is zero economy as no money is changing hands.

[sleepycat]

No doubt, the situation with sanctions will make Russia stronger.
They will have some hard time for about a year but in the long run Russian economics will benefit.
 

Perhaps you should mention this to all those Russian entrepreneurs who are trying to leave the country this very moment?

[Shadow]

Perhaps you should mention this to all those Russian entrepreneurs who are trying to leave the country this very moment?

Do you have a list?

[Doll]

I'm glad that you feel that Russia will eventually be able to stand on its own two feet, Doll.  However, it cannot survive as a stand-alone economy in the modern world.  Imports and exports will have to continue - who the suppliers and customers are may be slightly more problematic, because the invasion of Ukraine will turn many more countries against it (even if those other countries moderate sanctions to accommodate appease their own exporters).

Russia is not alone- there are China, South America, Belorussia, Asia.
Come on!

[Doll]

Perhaps you should mention this to all those Russian entrepreneurs who are trying to leave the country this very moment?

What? Who is leaving Russia?

[sleepycat]

What? Who is leaving Russia?

For one, the guy that created VK fled the country already.
You don't consider him an entrepreneur?

[Gator]

No doubt, the situation with sanctions will make Russia stronger.

Well lets see... our frinds in the suburbs have their own chickens, two cows and two goats. They get from their patch vegetables, potatoes, apples. With their neighbours they exchange eggs and milk for other products, like the shaslick meat we ate.Of course this is zero economy as no money is changing hands.

Splendid life indeed!  And life will become even better if Russia's aggression further isolates it from international markets.  Look how grand life was during Soviet times..........much of which Putin seemingly wants to recapture, e. g., becoming Grand Poohbah for life, eliminating viable political opponents, controlling media, downing civilian airplanes with impunity, resurrecting a union of CCCP republics, dreaming of reinstituting the Warsaw pact, etc.


So what!  Russia has oil and natural gas, so eventually EU will capitulate.........and Russia will pay the tab for rebuilding the Donbass infrastructure ........while a downsized leaner Ukraine, free of Russian masters, will blossom.   

Who needs whom the most?  Let's revisit this in 10 years.