Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Trip Reports => Topic started by: Trenchcoat on June 10, 2018, 02:15:51 PM

Title: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 10, 2018, 02:15:51 PM
Well, here we are, I promised you guys my trip report for this and here we go!

Well a few days ago now I set out from  Bournemouth Airport. I used to use this airport for Snowboarding holidays well over a decade ago. Back then it was a nice airport with its own style. Since then it has been turned into a dreary featureless hole and one I wish I never had the misfortune to venture into. The Architects that made adjustments to it should have been shot. Half the airport is now like caverns, no light where previously there was and nothing flows in the place. Worse still it has no atmosphere anymore, it's like the life has been drained out of the place and most of the staff are surly. It is now a featureless corrugated steel construction with little love in its design, the previous more nicer brick structure being unnecessarily clad over it seems.

Anyway, I was glad to get off and into Krakow to escape this depressing state of affairs. Well I shortly settled into my apartment and had some tourism down for the next few days before my travel to Lviv. Lviv I had made my main focus for women after I realised I was not that familar with Polish women in their home environment. I really just wanted to check them out to see if they were a possibility for a relationship.

Now that I have been here a couple of days I have come to notice several things. Nearly all women that I looked directly at looked away. Approximately half did so with a twinge of their nose. Plus loads of girls walk around with a unhappy look on their face like a goldfish.

I really do think that the Catholic upbringing weighs in heavily here. That they have been programmed that they should avoid the attention of all guys, to look the other way. I know from a Catholic girl I used to sit next to in Further Education college whilst doing my A levels that if a girl has sex with a guy outside of marriage she is regarded as a whore and will go to hell - she also had a habit of going to confession a lot despite not being a bad girl nor being either a bookish religious type nor a square girl.

Another problem is that they are nearly always emotionless. They just have at best an indifferent look & demeanour to them. The big point is that they don't really seem to do eyeing up at all. I walked around the big modern shopping mall next to the centre on Krakow and this was the universal situation with loads of girls.

Most of the girls to give them their due are dressed out immaculately. None of them really show any boobage but dress more classy in tight clothing but clothing that fully covers their assets. It looks nice in a way and is nice to have the change though I do like to see a nice bit if cleavage :D

On one day I wore a smart pair of jeans and smart brand name t-shirt - so from this they would know I'm English. On another I wore a nice smart shirt and black trousers so they would not know I'm English. Overall though it seemed to make little significant difference. The resounded was pretty much the same. It was like religion had made them all dead kippers.

I have so far had only two exceptions to this. The first a girl walked towards me gave me a look, a bit of change in outward emotion but saw from my brand t- shirt I was like English and seemed to straight off to stereotype me, she looked directly into my eyes then walked past me. From this I knew my chances weren't good, she was reasonably attractive.

The next possiblity can in a small grocery store, by now I had given up hope of bothering. At one point I tuned around and saw a tall blonde seemingly eyeing me up and down. As soon ax she noticed I had turned around and noticed her looking she turned away and acted like I didn't exist like a lot of Polish girls. This leads me to believe your best bet at least during the day if you want to stand any chance with a Polist girl (I'm assuming there Polish by the different response to even English girls) is to not to look directly at them, instead to pwmeet end you haven't seen them then look suddenly around  (naturally looking though without looking a weirdo by a real at odds sudden look/turn. Then move straight in and take no prisoners.

From all the religious stuff that goes on here it still looks like it is a big deal to them. I think it is perhas similar to what 2tallbill says about Georgians that the are a tough nut to crack because you have to be in for the long haul and committed to getting with their religion. Even though I am not real old I think it's really a game for the young who have time to spend on getting in on the long term game.

Note I am not looking for sex tourism here I'm merely looking at how much of an ordeal/feasibility a relationship may be with them. Nightclubs may hold out more lucK but a day game is a real difficult one here I think.

To be honest I think Roosh has it about right with his analysis of Polish women despite being a sex tourist. I'm not bothered too much about model looking face, I'm willing to become to know a girl relationship wise. They do tend to have real nice svelte bods, occasionally this is taken too far and they look anorexic which is not good but on the whole it's a big plus.

All I would say is that they seem to suffer the same problem as in the UK that most shut themselves off from thinking about other guys than Polish guys or maybe Spanish - same religion, etc and apparently they dig them.

I will update more later,  pics if I can figure our how to get them on here :)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on June 10, 2018, 02:39:20 PM

Lviv I had made my main focus for women after I realised I was not that familar with Polish women in their home environment. I really just wanted to check them out to see if they were a possibility for a relationship.




You do know Lviv belonged to Poland before the Soviets took it?


Now that I have been here a couple of days I have come to notice several things. Nearly all women that I looked directly at looked away. Approximately half did so with a twinge of their nose. Plus loads of girls walk around with a unhappy look on their face like a goldfish.



Women in West Ukraine are less likely to marry outsiders. Don't expect every women to be excited when you try and talk to them.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 10, 2018, 02:47:20 PM
OMG..

My first encounter with E.European women was with a Polish lady who had settled in the UK with her husband... They had fouGHT the Nazis and arrived in the UK with all their possessions in one suitcase

They were middle class Polish, VERY smart and R.Catholic

He loved his wife and took super 'artistic' photos of his wife and their love was total.

I do not recognise your descriptions of younger Poles in Poland, either . 

This 'ol git found all young Poles interesting and were pleased I took an interest in their country

IF your are 'getting nose in the air' dismissals you are doing something SERIOUSLY wrong

When I first dipped my toe back in the dating pool I had a Polish lass with Russian ancestry write to me and she was 20 years younger ... I didn't encourage the relationship - but we had a go and she made me realise I was no longer a young man - She had such plans and more..!

Trench - I wonder WHAT the 'ell you are doing wrong - as your experiences are always the polar opposite of mine







Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on June 10, 2018, 02:53:24 PM
TC, you are a lost soul with a lack of understanding of the real world. Krakow is a tourist hotspot and is the last place for you to find a woman. The same fate applies to your Lviv visit. Polish/Ukrainian women in Poland are not interested in a foreigner visiting on holiday. We found the people in Poland to be very friendly and helpful towards us as tourists.

People are more religious in both Ukraine and Poland than in the UK. My wife is fairly religious but this is not a 'show stopper' for me as I am an open-minded person. You are simply wasting your time and money on this crazy trip. Krarkow / Lviv are places to visit as a tourist rather than to find a potential life partner. Those interested in an international partner use agencies / dating sites to meet a lonely English guy. Sorry but you come across as a clueless person in this venture.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Davo2 on June 10, 2018, 05:09:40 PM
Trench, a few years ago the only dating I did was from cold approaches during the day (far more successful than pubs or clubs)  If this is what you plan to do on this trip, you will struggle with no practice. Remember I told you to go out and talk to local girls in the street several months ago, in preparation?

It takes approaching and talking to many women to beat approach anxiety and that's before you start struggling for words as most women won't contribute to the conversation for the first minute or so, until they have worked out you're not a threat.

You might have to approach 10,20 or even 50 women to get 1 date (maybe it's less in the fsu), so looking for an expression of interest before you chat to them, will mean you will  spend your trip aimlessly walking around like a creepy guy, staring at women. 90% of the time you will have see no interest in them, even local girls. Often it's the element of surprise that works in your favour.  Work to the 3 second rule.... If you see a woman you like, approach her within 3 seconds or walk away. I once sat in my car for 30 minutes building up courage to go back into a saddlery shop and ask a girl out, because I broke that rule.... She was flattered but already had a boyfriend.

Even when you get good at it, it's hit and miss. I've had days where chatting with 10 women netted me 5 dates and then spent weeks being rejected between dates..... Be prepared that you will be rejected more than you are successful, but for this to happen you actually need to at least talk to them.

This will turn out badly for you if you lack confidence and as I said there was so much you could have learnt from trying  this locally first, to build your confidence. Cold approaches, for most is the hardest method of dating and sometimes the most demoralizing, when you are rejected over and over again.

In today's report you should be telling us you talked with 20 girls and have a date lined up for tonight. I hope you surprise us all and can pull it off.

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Jumper on June 10, 2018, 06:54:50 PM
TC, good for taking a trip.
It's not the syltuke if recommended, but you are there,not at home!

Cold sales are the hardest in any type of sales,and dint kid yourself, dating is initially a sale.


That said,  you really really have to just talk to women.Start up a random chat with the flowershop girl etc.

You do know the running bit about catholic girls right? Yes a silly stereotype but it sure isnt about being prudish.
Polish girls can party you under the table easily,trust me.

I had 3 girls sit at my table at a cafe today.
Granted I was the only patron, they were bored college girls, but they came over to find out where I was from and what I was doing in their town. They likely saw me joking around with their friend who was the hostess,saw the exchange was light,certainly not serious , and funny,possibly interesting, so why not? Dint mean a thing to me,or them,but I've had similar happen in about any country I've ever been to which is a pretty decent number.

My point is...
  If you want this approach you've chosen  to work ,you have to be able to chat up anyone,anywhere.
On the train,at the airport,at the store.
Walking down a street is going to be a real challenge for anyone though.

I do respect you trying, i wish you good luck!
  My best advice ,in the situation you've put yourself in which is a difficult one, is to be light hearted and as charming and witty/funny as is possible,without over doing it.lol Its a fine line.
The other advice is to jump on dating sites and line up dates .
 

Most are going to avoid a tourist as far as dating, just how it is.
So you've put yourself in a position where you are indeed just a tourist, and it's best to play that card! Be friendly, ask questions, be genuinely  interested in the place,the culture.
That means talking to men, and women,and babushka .You may find someone around your age finds you interesting ,you may not ,
But I think you'll have more chance of th hat,than if you try and play cold sale *pick up* girls off the street.
(Thats true of any country you landed in)


Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 10, 2018, 09:04:35 PM
Thanks for the comments guys. Well any pick up on the street was always intended as secondary to dating sites for me. I did no dating sites for Krakow since I am only here a few days and most of that time is on tourist stuff. Lviv & dating sites there is my main area of operation. The Krakow bit was just to see what the girls are like out here.

For Krakow I think lining up a girl before hand on the net is probably best. Also going out to a less touristy city and being able to spend some time out here to get to know the girl. I don't think it's really a fly in sort of venture like in much of the FSU. Many Polish girls certainly have fit bods, nice & thin often with a nice pair of tities :) Facially some are nice but many are not always the prettiest but that actually doesn't bother me. Few I would say are actually ugly and a real pretty girl can easily get up herself.

So yeah, I've got some girls profiles lined up to contact in Lviv. There's actually quite a few on there some have put themselves on international dating sites so those ones will be looking to date outside of their own. Im quite confident of getting some girls up there. If not I might do as Krimster suggested, hire a car and go out to a village, lol.

All of the girls I am going to put in for initially are late twenties to mid thirties with early thirties bein the optimum I guess. I know I could go for younger and if uptake is slow may do but to be honest I think I would be more comfortable with a girl who is not a big difference in age and who will hopefully be very serious. Tye prospect of real young girls always kind of makes me feel I'm being nieve. That I'm some old fool chasing after girls that at least in the UK would be well pug of my age group and a bit weird feeling really a bit like dating a daughter if I had one, lol.

I had a brief look on Polish dating sites before coming out here but they were mostly in Polish and seemed to have few girls on them of any quality. I don't really have the time to delve more into that scene I'm kind of more familiar now with the Ukrainian scene so am happiest with that I think. I think a lot of it is that Ukrainian girls probably suit me more. Their whole look and national character probably appeals to me more and fits in well with me. Lviv is apparently not as touristy as Krakow  (loads of yanks here ;) ) and I have high hopes for it  :)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on June 10, 2018, 11:15:18 PM
So yeah, I've got some girls profiles lined up to contact in Lviv. There's actually quite a few on there some have put themselves on international dating sites so those ones will be looking to date outside of their own. Im quite confident of getting some girls up there. If not I might do as Krimster suggested, hire a car and go out to a village, lol.


Regardless of the popular belief poor village girls are desperate and willing to do anything, you probably have a better chance getting a girl in Kiev to open her legs in exchange for an iPhone over a girl living in a poor village in Western Ukraine.

A guy should mold himself into a man who will be 100% successful with women living in a small village or a big city in any country in the world.


Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 10, 2018, 11:31:29 PM
Well just a brief note about the Polish character. I find they are not much into hello's & goodbyes. They are a little matter of fact in their transactions a kind of 'there you are' it's complete and job done. I find they generally don't show much in the way of demeanour except perhaps the guys can be moderately good willed seeming, the girls usually less so. I think with a fair whole out here or pre travel communication results could be achieved but on the hoof it's a much harder game. More a case of getting to know the girl that a straight out hook up attempt I think. The pay off's are no doubt worth it if you can manage it as said the girls bods are pretty hot and I don't think they are the slutty play around type at all.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 10, 2018, 11:40:14 PM
Just also a note to explain the strategy I am deploying in Lviv shortly. As you all know I didn't lone up any girls before hand, not even a visit one leading to a possible visit many.The reason for this was to not use up girls/time messaging girls and be up against the keyboard romeo's and hence not have girls reply and so thereby pass over options. By messaging them with a straight out meet up I'm hoping my chances will be much greater since I will be there and then for them to meet, no potential time waster for them in terms of meet up. I'be done it this way as there are not as many, though still a decent number of profiles so as to not burn my way through too many. So I'm quite confident of this strategy at the moment and will see how it goes and take it from there.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 11, 2018, 12:27:49 AM
So I'm quite confident of this strategy at the moment and will see how it goes and take it from there.

I'm quite confident - based on your observations and comments that your 'strategy' is doomed.

Until you sort out your bizarre, misogynistic viewpoints - you're going to fail (
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 11, 2018, 11:22:09 AM
I'm quite confident - based on your observations and comments that your 'strategy' is doomed.

Until you sort out your bizarre, misogynistic viewpoints - you're going to fail (

I don't see that it makes a difference, aren't men supposed to be men and women supposed to be women. I think you've seen too influenced by feminism Mobe. It's always there in the west subtlety chipping away at our subconscious through the media, etc.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 11, 2018, 11:59:28 AM
Well just to follow up, there's plenty of hot Polish girls in the big shopping mall where the rail station is. I would say it's pretty much a non starter with them though as it is with most girls around Krakow. I think a big problem is that the tons of foreigners have really agrieved the local girls there. I think the hot young girls in tight top dresses are probably fed up with loads of foreign dudes checking them out wherever you are from. I think they still go into the shopping centre to shop as they are into the classy fashion shops there. I think the looking away etc is almost an instinct from all the foreign guys that eye them daily. I'm sure they will generally regard pretty much all guys in and around there as foreign (since they are so many) and act indignant accordingly.

Most of the girls in the city centre & shopping centre and youngish. The polish girls are easy to tell apart from the foreign girls (mainly US) if they have thicK thighs they are American girls if they have thin thighs they are Polish girls. They also dress differently too. Polish girls wear nice often pleasantly simple plain dresses. American girls will wear what I call more rag tear wear, and obviously bigger size. Polish girls dress way better in essence.

So yes, for those viewing this try to get date set up before hand by whichever siye seems best. Maybe even Facebook or something. And go to another city other than Krakow if you can. It really is like bashing head against a brick wall here. The only ones that might be more easier is slightly older women but they seem harder to find in the city centre. Here Polish women either seem to be young or old with not much in between.

What I did notice from a quick walk away from the city centre is done polish girls go up to some polish guys. Upon meeting they seemed to show more emotion than the usual non expression, a fair few smiles. I think it is probably true that they tend to stick to their own. That is the same problem with Polish women in the UK - we thought they would be a great bonanza compared to English girls when they came in; boy were we wrong. Had they been more open to English guys instead of just wanting to take the jobs then I think we wouldn't have voted out, too little sharing is the problem there.

So I think a lot of Polish guys tend to get sorted already with Polish guys at least around Krakow. Few I think seek a foreign guy, there's not the economic leverage to make a foreign guy desirable. If Poland had not joined the EU then it could have been another good area to search. Polish girls have great figures, probably the best and some are facially pretty enough for my liking. Sin if your looking to put some real time & effort in to reap the rewards go for it but it's definitely a much tougher game than in the Ukraine. Getting them laid though is no doubt a big treat and to be honest for most of them is well worth following into a relationship too :)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Hammer2722 on June 11, 2018, 12:03:42 PM
Perhaps its best if you just stick to describing the tourist things you have done. You are really coming off as someone that is truly clueless about women in general.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 11, 2018, 12:19:15 PM
Well that's about me done here in Krakow. I spent the day on a excursion where the most most jaw gapping view was the backside of some American hogs in my tour party ;D In fact they could have made a tourist spectacle all by themselves, lol. I was like omg can you really get 'that' fat. Though tk be honest there are lots of English girls now back home that are pretty similar.

After three days here I have seen all I need to see in Krakow. For me I wouldn't now Tey dating on Poland without a date set up in advance or perhaps some short uni course if I were younger taught in English with Polish students if it exists. I would get with a Polish girl in a flash if I could their hot. I think though that Ukrainian girls suit me more , they suit my personality and their personality and character suit me. For me I much prefer the ease on dating online to street pick up. Tomorrow I leave for Lviv which is my main target which hopefully will be less touristy than Krakow (I hear it is) and more different in the outlook of its women. I know there is a shared history but that goes back many decades, about 70 years ago so I'm hoping the several hours of journeying and distance plus nation apart will make a difference :)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 11, 2018, 12:20:23 PM
Perhaps its best if you just stick to describing the tourist things you have done. You are really coming off as someone that is truly clueless about women in general.  :popcorn:

Oh and what would your approach have been with these types of women?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 11, 2018, 12:26:53 PM
I would also like to add Polish girls breasts were on the whole quite large, no doubt some wore padding, etc but I saw many with what appeared to be natural looking C cups in fact the majority of the girls had these. Of course there were the odd few with smaller breasts but on the whole there definitely was a boon thing they had about them. Some of their cups were even straining to keep their boobs from busting out :D
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on June 11, 2018, 12:30:55 PM
Perhaps its best if you just stick to describing the tourist things you have done. You are really coming off as someone that is truly clueless about women in general.  :popcorn:

Not only clueless, but also locked in early adolescence.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on June 11, 2018, 01:24:21 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/CThv604.png)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 11, 2018, 01:40:37 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/CThv604.png)

That's harsh man :( Besides it's untrue I already know I have had sex and that was before becoming 40 this year.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 11, 2018, 01:48:24 PM
Upon reflection if I could find a Polish girl real into me then it would be fine. However if it's one of the many that scores a straight 10 on her bod then I'm back to the girl being a big target for other guy once in the UK and most likely Polish guys in the UK. I think the UK is the graveyard of Polish marriages. Of the 2 Polist guys I know from work both have ended up in divorce since coming to the UK begging the question is that extra money really worth it. Even I would agree with them that the bad ways inherent in English society is best avoided if possible.

A nice all round ish 7 would do me quite nicely I think :) I'm quite happy to focus on the relationship with a girl with chemistry rather than scoring a high ranking girl.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on June 11, 2018, 01:51:47 PM
That's harsh man :( Besides it's untrue I already know I have had sex and that was before becoming 40 this year.

So you say, but I am pretty sure that not many here believes that after reading your posts.

and how did I know you would completely strike out in Poland?  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on June 11, 2018, 02:59:38 PM
That's harsh man :( Besides it's untrue I already know I have had sex and that was before becoming 40 this year.

Miss Kherson knew you were inexperienced in sexual matters, and so used you for a holiday and new clothes! She was not really interested in you, and so please stop reminiscing about her.

I lived in southern England over 30 years ago, and found that sex was readily available! If you are a sample of southern men, then no wonder they were making themselves freely available to men from northern areas. They were seeking men not wimps!

You need to find a woman with a similar lack of sexual experience, and she will be content with you. No wonder you only want to find a childless woman. Go back to the drawing board, and think again. The women of western Ukraine are not the answer to your problem. Others may disagree
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 11, 2018, 03:20:27 PM
WHAT a strategy - pitch up and 'observe'..

The scary part is I'm working out our Trench must live in the Hants / Dorset area ..My younger daughter lives there... :rolleyes:

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on June 11, 2018, 03:29:17 PM
The scary part is I'm working out our Trench must live in the Hants / Dorset area

I had him classified as an 'Andy Capp' type of person. I was obviously wrong. A yokel would be a better classification for him. It would also explain his attitude problem towards the industrial areas of Ukraine.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 11, 2018, 07:39:01 PM
Miss Kherson knew you were inexperienced in sexual matters, and so used you for a holiday and new clothes! She was not really interested in you, and so please stop reminiscing about her.

I lived in southern England over 30 years ago, and found that sex was readily available! If you are a sample of southern men, then no wonder they were making themselves freely available to men from northern areas. They were seeking men not wimps!

You need to find a woman with a similar lack of sexual experience, and she will be content with you. No wonder you only want to find a childless woman. Go back to the drawing board, and think again. The women of western Ukraine are not the answer to your problem. Others may disagree

Miss Kherson did not exactly strike me as sexually experienced. She improved as matters went on but first of all did not recognise the importance of Foreplay and the positions more suitable for a height difference.

I now believe she saw relationships with foreign guys as all in, in terms of the materialistic side. She had a view that when you date a wetern guy that is what you get, that is the point of dating them over local guys. Location guys don't interest her as they are basically getting more worse the older she get and can't offer her nowhere near the lifestyle that western guys can that she wants.

Girls in southern England 30 years ago are way different from today. They was less under the influence of feminism. Now feminism is dominant and I don't mean the 'I want to get out of the kitchen' rubbish. Now they want to compete against men and will turn someone they love into their worst enemy should he get in her way. Because society is wealthier now and because if feminism they 'want to be entertained'. They have the ball totally in their court. Yes northern guys will no doubt fulfill the entertain bit, however the money i.e house criteria they would fall woefully down on. Women will split the tick box exercise and any that don't tick both these boxes will be out straight off. It is A LOT harder these days to get a good girl in southern England, hell even many fatties are getting choosy, lol.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 11, 2018, 07:55:38 PM
WHAT a strategy - pitch up and 'observe'..

The scary part is I'm working out our Trench must live in the Hants / Dorset area ..My younger daughter lives there... :rolleyes:

Is not a bad one Mobers you can learn a lot in a lot of this from just observing. Why waste time & energy hitting on women and failing when you can see others do it and fail then see why. Yes I have seen that in the past few days also.

Well if your youngest daughter lives in southern England I bet she knows that she can get guys easy by many such variety of methods that exist today. I bet she has a list if expectations which nondoubt includes the guy having a certain wealth status, etc. For her ax a woman life will be easy there, now if you had a son there it could well be a different matter.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 11, 2018, 11:55:21 PM
Yeah, just a final note on Krakow. I think it's probably been ruined as a pick up ground as you've no doubt had a lot of sex tourists coming here to pick up women. Even during my stay you could see the odd few prowling around. I think that is most likely the main reason young women have learned to look away from all blokes that look at them. For most women the thought of being picked up to be used as an arse by some bloke for the night is probably not a pleasant one. Probably akin to feeling like a prostitute. I see sex as part of a relationship but sex tourists just want sex and mess it up for guys like me. I think these young women fathers, girlfriends etc have probably warned them not to look. I think they read sex tourist the moment you look at them and know they are easy game if they look at you, particularly if they do fancy you like the one I caught looking at me in the shop while I temporarily faced the other direction, she then turned away and ignored me/my presence. The Catholic thing might come into play also along with pwraps an upbringing of not looking at strangers in general, particularly men for the women. I really do think that they look within what they probably regard as the safety of their social circle rather than strangers.

Krakow as many may know used to be a mecca at one point for tacky stag do's from the UK - mainly northerners. I think they have since gone on to plague another poor city, I think it is presently one in Germany. Here in Krakow apparently a lot of premises began to ban stag parties and probably pretty much all did in the end which probably helped to kill it off. Still I think it hasn't helped affairs or the view young Polish women probably have of foreign men.

Whichever way Krakow was never really the place I decided to look for women. It was really just where the plane landed for convenience so I thought to kill two birds with one stone, don't a bit of tourist sight seeing and see what the Polish girls were like. Had an easy one come up off course I would have been in there. But for me the focus was always Lviv. For a while I am likely to go on radio silence and report back afterwards. I need to focus on the task at hard and not spend too long on here. I also need to feel in a good confidentime mood and I'm afraid some members of the peanut gallery don't help on that front. It will either work or it won't but I am confident that I will at least be in a nice area if all goes south and have at least got hope that some action will be feasible there :)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on June 12, 2018, 12:14:21 AM
You are a first class  f....g 100% idiot  .
Has it occurred to you that it is your leering at girls  that makes them want to vomit?

And again-- as long as you keep thinking anything ROOSH has said  is relevant you will NEVER get anywhere .
Add a few other pieces of dud advice  from the  forum here you believe in  ( btw do you realise the guy promoting some of that dud "advice" got the s...t beaten out of him in Ukraine?) and you keep making idiotic comments on numerous topics you have less than zero understanding of!!

 :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :trainwreck:
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 12, 2018, 01:11:39 AM
You are a first class  f....g 100% idiot  .
Has it occurred to you that it is your leering at girls  that makes them want to vomit?

And again-- as long as you keep thinking anything ROOSH has said  is relevant you will NEVER get anywhere .
Add a few other pieces of dud advice  from the  forum here you believe in  ( btw do you realise the guy promoting some of that dud "advice" got the s...t beaten out of him in Ukraine?) and you keep making idiotic comments on numerous topics you have less than zero understanding of!!

 :barf: :barf: :barf: :barf: :trainwreck:

I was not leering at them, it was just a casual glance in most cases. I really don't think it is me but the environment here. Perhaps others can go take a visit or if visited comment on what they made of it.

Roosh has differing goal to me, he wants one night stands and short relationships. I want a permanent relationship, marriage, children, etc. The point is he did at least get with these women. He no doubt could have gotten into a permanent relationship etc if he wanted that but he did not. I don't agree with all of what he says but a lot of his analysis is often vang on the situation at hand that's all.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on June 12, 2018, 01:45:28 AM
Yes northern guys will no doubt fulfill the entertain bit, however the money i.e house criteria they would fall woefully down on.

You need to loose your pre-conceptions! I have always lived in the north on a high salary, and so have never had problems regarding money and property. My wife never asked me about such matters as she trusted me, and knew that I would always deliver my promises to her. In her own words, she moved from Lilliput to Brobdingnag!

During my search, I was contacted by a lot of women in their mid/late thirties seeking a western man with whom to have their first child. I decided to find an age-appropriate wife in the late forties. PM me if you want to learn more about the way to be successful, although I will need you to be totally honest with me. It is really easy but you need to loose your pre-conceptions.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 12, 2018, 02:46:36 AM
Is not a bad one Mobers you can learn a lot in a lot of this from just observing. Why waste time & energy hitting on women and failing when you can see others do it and fail then see why. Yes I have seen that in the past few days also.

[/QUOUTE]

And what did you leaen in Poland?  NOTHING...based on your 'observations' ....which bear no resemblance to my experience...I wonder why? :deadhorse:

Well if your youngest daughter lives in southern England I bet she knows that she can get guys easy by many such variety of methods that exist today. I bet she has a list if expectations which nondoubt includes the guy having a certain wealth status, etc. For her ax a woman life will be easy there, now if you had a son there it could well be a different matter.

Jaha...yet another FAIL

She is courting a lad she first met at school...same year...been togrther more than 2 years .

Wealth has b'all to do with their still beung together)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on June 16, 2018, 12:14:07 AM
I had him classified as an 'Andy Capp' type of person. I was obviously wrong. A yokel would be a better classification for him. It would also explain his attitude problem towards the industrial areas of Ukraine.

I suspect yokel is a compliment when applied to Trenchcoat, perhaps cretin is a better description?

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 18, 2018, 05:36:32 AM
ML

Whilst I appreciate you might chose not to respond further, I STILL find your criteria to 'exclude' a working woman who wouldn't (couldn't?)  meet you during working hours as an inadvisible stance to others.

Meeting someone on a date you hardly know is akin to a pig in a poke.

Admittedly I unfortuately have to concede that Mobers may have a point on this one. I'm out in Lviv at the moment, its a beautiful place and so are the women. I have messaged a load of women across a couple of sites for the kast couple of days or so. This has resulted in just one scheduled meet up. I had been hoping to do at least one a day on average.

The main point is this, being in her city appears to afford you no advantage to being miles away, the woman still only choses those men that interest her regardless of where they are. Essentially, the woman doesnt lose out where the guy is since she will call upon those who interest her to visit her and his expense.

So the woman doesn't lose out  by chasing after guys from far away, the worst she gets to have to put up with is guys that she is interested in, writes but never visits. This gets the girl into a strop but it is not enough to get her to see a foreign guy she is not so interested in who is already in her home city. If anything she no doubt wants to see that you are interested to come all that distance to see her rather than not know that you would put yourself out as you are already there.

A bigger city like Moscow might yield better results (though I doubt that much better) but it seems here a lot of the internet girls want to have the choice of what is available internationally rather than what is in front of them, local or foreign. Again its kind of starting from ground zero in messaging these girls even if here so at these paltry results going to see if there is chemistry first with the odd girl or so is certainly no better than the visit one setup from messaging/skyping at home. Its still you verses the world of other men.

So it looks like the best policy may just be to do as Nightwish suggests and take a long weekend break to visit one whenever a seemingly suitable one pops up.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 18, 2018, 05:41:19 AM
Trench,

I'm truly sorry that you are having little success in getting dates

When ML was doing this, I'm sure he wasn't

I don't think things have changed THAT much

You REALLY must be doing something wrong ((



Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 18, 2018, 07:31:51 AM
Trench,

I'm truly sorry that you are having little success in getting dates

When ML was doing this, I'm sure he wasn't

I don't think things have changed THAT much

You REALLY must be doing something wrong ((

Not sure if there is anything I am doing wrong or if it's the small size of the city, etc. I essentially post them of a shortish paragraph explaining that I wish to meet them for a date, that I am in their city, what I am looking for (i.e Marriage, children) and why I am doing it this way (of travelling to see that there is chemistry there first).

From what I recall I think some of ML's meets might have been through business contacts. I think I remember him saying his present wife was. I think the game could have moved on a bit now, that FSW are using the dating sites more like Match, they want dominance with choosing who they see. So still good because of the number of women on there but for meet ups in smaller cities not the number of women needed.

I think perhaps these days the women have a more international view than taking what's delivered to them. They now know how the game works and will play it to their advantage.

Some of the girks I messaged haven't been on their a while so for those ones that will be shy as they have gone off and likely will not read the message. I think a bigger city may work better  Moscow where you have a load maybe 20,30 or more all on at the same time. If they are feeling the competition around them they may jump at an offer. Here in Lviv where there are only a handful on at the same time I don't think the feel the pressure/need to. Just my thoughts on it.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on June 18, 2018, 07:40:36 AM
Admittedly I unfortuately have to concede that Mobers may have a point on this one. I'm out in Lviv at the moment, its a beautiful place and so are the women. I have messaged a load of women across a couple of sites for the kast couple of days or so. This has resulted in just one scheduled meet up. I had been hoping to do at least one a day on average.

The main point is this, being in her city appears to afford you no advantage to being miles away, the woman still only choses those men that interest her regardless of where they are. Essentially, the woman doesnt lose out where the guy is since she will call upon those who interest her to visit her and his expense.




So the woman doesn't lose out  by chasing after guys from far away, the worst she gets to have to put up with is guys that she is interested in, writes but never visits. This gets the girl into a strop but it is not enough to get her to see a foreign guy she is not so interested in who is already in her home city. If anything she no doubt wants to see that you are interested to come all that distance to see her rather than not know that you would put yourself out as you are already there.

A bigger city like Moscow might yield better results (though I doubt that much better) but it seems here a lot of the internet girls want to have the choice of what is available internationally rather than what is in front of them, local or foreign. Again its kind of starting from ground zero in messaging these girls even if here so at these paltry results going to see if there is chemistry first with the odd girl or so is certainly no better than the visit one setup from messaging/skyping at home. Its still you verses the world of other men.

So it looks like the best policy may just be to do as Nightwish suggests and take a long weekend break to visit one whenever a seemingly suitable one pops up.


STOP WRITING GIRLS - go out on town, visit the local places, meet people in their everyday life.
You are doing 1 thing good, boots on the ground but still use the "Long distance" approach - STOP THAT NOW

I would think most women question what the f*** you are doing there, with this approach. So leave the computer and go out and actually DO something.

If you want to use an app, tinder works wonders even in Ukraine, blendr was one I used, it's in cooperation with some datingsite.

but your approach now is what I told you about, it will be many many lonely evenings in the hotelroom if you rely on that.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Hammer2722 on June 18, 2018, 08:07:17 AM
Not sure if there is anything I am doing wrong or if it's the small size of the city, etc. I essentially post them of a shortish paragraph explaining that I wish to meet them for a date, that I am in their city, what I am looking for (i.e Marriage, children) and why I am doing it this way (of travelling to see that there is chemistry there first).

From what I recall I think some of ML's meets might have been through business contacts. I think I remember him saying his present wife was. I think the game could have moved on a bit now, that FSW are using the dating sites more like Match, they want dominance with choosing who they see. So still good because of the number of women on there but for meet ups in smaller cities not the number of women needed.

I think perhaps these days the women have a more international view than taking what's delivered to them. They now know how the game works and will play it to their advantage.

Some of the girks I messaged haven't been on their a while so for those ones that will be shy as they have gone off and likely will not read the message. I think a bigger city may work better  Moscow where you have a load maybe 20,30 or more all on at the same time. If they are feeling the competition around them they may jump at an offer. Here in Lviv where there are only a handful on at the same time I don't think the feel the pressure/need to. Just my thoughts on it.

Lviv is not a small city....
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on June 18, 2018, 08:45:57 AM
STOP WRITING GIRLS - go out on town, visit the local places, meet people in their everyday life.
You are doing 1 thing good, boots on the ground but still use the "Long distance" approach - STOP THAT NOW


Meeting girls on the ground is a good idea but Trench should gets some easy dates with Mamba. Instant messaging and the girls on there are single. What Trench needs to understand is that he's in an area of Ukraine where they are less interested in foreigners compared to the girls on the other side.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 18, 2018, 08:48:37 AM
Meeting girls on the ground is a good idea but Trench should gets some easy dates with Mamba. Instant messaging and the girls on there are single. What Trench needs to understand is that he's in an area of Ukraine where they are less interested in foreigners compared to the girls on the other side.

Here we go AGAIN... Like 'Mamba' will be popular in Lviv, now.....
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on June 18, 2018, 08:53:36 AM
Meeting girls on the ground is a good idea but Trench should gets some easy dates with Mamba. Instant messaging and the girls on there are single. What Trench needs to understand is that he's in an area of Ukraine where they are less interested in foreigners compared to the girls on the other side.

I disagree, I met several serious ladies from Lviv and surroundings.. yes it's maybe more concentrated in Kyiv and around Odessa/Mykolajiv, but that does not mean there is any lack of available very beautiful and interested women in the west of Ukraine.
For him to wrangle up one date per day should not be a problem, unaccounted for HOW you choose to do this.
Some ways are wrong, some ways works fine, my way worked excellent.

and mate.. get in the game, Mamba is not the way.. not anymore
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 18, 2018, 11:13:41 AM
Meeting girls on the ground is a good idea but Trench should gets some easy dates with Mamba. Instant messaging and the girls on there are single. What Trench needs to understand is that he's in an area of Ukraine where they are less interested in foreigners compared to the girls on the other side.

Mamba was one of the sites I used the other was FDating both I would say was only a handful of girls that logged in regularly, i.e the rest had either logged in a long time ago or was like last logged 200, 300, 500 etc days ago. So while it felt like I messaged a lot I guess it is only around half a dozen on each site where they log in regularly.

FDating brought up one briefly but she was into classical concerts in a big way - posted me the info pics to the classical concert she was presently at. I've nothing against them, I can sit there quite happily & relax but there's no way nor I think point of making out I'm into them, I'm not. I wouldn't know a thing about this or that symphony or chenserto, or whatever it is.

Anyway, managed to get this date set up with this girl tomorrow. I'm not even thinking it will be a match it would be big odds for that, but I think we can have a friendly chat and find out about each other & stuff. I used a different dating site for this date. I've looked up another but again after a handful of girls the last logged in goes to 2, then 3, etc months or longer. I don't think they get any email notifications, given up or are dating someone.

I'm then thinking what Nightwish said is right, I've got no other choice than to attempt day game. Now it's not territory I'm comfortable on as I'm not a gift of the gab sort of guy. I think though that my plan of action will be to sit it out on some corner(s) somewhere see what ones are best and  pass the time until I get a direct sure sign of attraction. This is likely to take some time but I think it's do-able. If I know the girl has a magnetic  pull to me then I think she will be open to anything.

I just have to pass over the many attractive women here who are just attractive but not magnetically attracted to me. I don't see any long term future in them as a girl thats magnetically into me will stay with me for the long term as I see it.

Nightwish has kind of made me realise that is what I have come out here for. Even if I were to bring up more of the internet the chances that they will be into me will be remote. I think this is where my best chances lay so long as a girl pops up where there is that magnetic attraction.

Hopefully the date tomorrow will help to warm me up to the approach :)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on June 18, 2018, 12:49:04 PM
I'm not a gift of the gab sort of guy. I think though that my plan of action will be to sit it out on some corner(s) somewhere see what ones are best and  pass the time until I get a direct sure sign of attraction. This is likely to take some time but I think it's do-able. If I know the girl has a magnetic  pull to me then I think she will be open to anything.


Practice makes perfect. Experience is the best teacher. Talk to the ladies. Figure out what works and doesn't work based off how they react with you. You'll get better over time. If you don't, there's plenty of other guys that'll get the girls you're missing out on.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 18, 2018, 01:28:04 PM
Trench, it has been suggested already ... but why aren't you trying Tinder ?  Your pig n a poke approach is working 'so well'  - what have you got to lose ...

Once again, you were told by many NOT to approach this trip without lining up women before .. :deadhorse:
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 18, 2018, 01:45:02 PM
Trench, it has been suggested already ... but why aren't you trying Tinder ?  Your pig n a poke approach is working 'so well'  - what have you got to lose ...

Once again, you were told by many NOT to approach this trip without lining up women before .. :deadhorse:

I've been trying Tinder but no joy, I've now even got it on an auto responder lol to accept all on ther which I could then filter later from any that responded but I doubt they will. Apparently looking up on the internet you need to be in a city the size of New York to stand it having much chance of working. That is why Bounder had results as he's in Moscow.

Yes it was a mistake not lining up women before I came out here. I see that now. However, I believe I am learning stuff and will see what/if I can make anything out of all of this.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on June 18, 2018, 02:05:42 PM
I've been trying Tinder but no joy, I've now even got it on an auto responder lol to accept all on ther which I could then filter later from any that responded but I doubt they will. Apparently looking up on the internet you need to be in a city the size of New York to stand it having much chance of working. That is why Bounder had results as he's in Moscow.

Yes it was a mistake not lining up women before I came out here. I see that now. However, I believe I am learning stuff and will see what/if I can make anything out of all of this.

Nope, not at all..
I was in Chernigov for a weekend where I had a train-wreck of a date with a woman who liked to "honey trap" guys.. with all my experience I still feel like a fool and went to see her. However I ditched her the first evening after I found out she was engaged, had a child and this was only a way to "extract" cash, her b/f even drove the "taxi".

I went on Tinder, contacted a few in the right age-group and set up 4 dates that same night.  I was then approached by another 5-6 girls (yes girls) that was a bit out of my comfortzone age wise. I did meet one of them for a brief coffee, but it was pretty obvious early, not my cup of tea. Yet we had a nice chat and she was a great sweet young lady, but too young for me.

Chernigov has a population of about ~300 000 and had I stayed longer I could have had 2-3 dates per day if I wanted.
Or I could have had sex 24/7 with very young, very beautiful girls, for a ´very' small cash advance, that was the downside with Tinder I thought..
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on June 18, 2018, 03:46:28 PM
Miss Kherson did not exactly strike me as sexually experienced.


You do not impress me as either couth or sexually experienced.

. . .  and the positions more suitable for a height difference.

Are you also vertically challenged?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: LAman on June 18, 2018, 03:51:41 PM
Nope, not at all..
I was in Chernigov for a weekend where I had a train-wreck of a date with a woman who liked to "honey trap" guys.. with all my experience I still feel like a fool and went to see her. However I ditched her the first evening after I found out she was engaged, had a child and this was only a way to "extract" cash, her b/f even drove the "taxi".

I went on Tinder, contacted a few in the right age-group and set up 4 dates that same night.  I was then approached by another 5-6 girls (yes girls) that was a bit out of my comfortzone age wise. I did meet one of them for a brief coffee, but it was pretty obvious early, not my cup of tea. Yet we had a nice chat and she was a great sweet young lady, but too young for me.

Chernigov has a population of about ~300 000 and had I stayed longer I could have had 2-3 dates per day if I wanted.
Or I could have had sex 24/7 with very young, very beautiful girls, for a ´very' small cash advance, that was the downside with Tinder I thought..


Nightwish, you didn't know that tinder IS known for hooking up with women. Easy to get dates there but always with some ulterior motive.

There was a story about some guys( different ones) that got into troubles with dates from tinder, it was in SPb.

Tinder great for a date or hooking up. As long as your paying, girl will be there.... if not a couple girls.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: LAman on June 18, 2018, 03:57:15 PM

For him to wrangle up one date per day should not be a problem, unaccounted for HOW you choose to do this.
Some ways are wrong, some ways works fine, my way worked excellent.




Are you HIM?
Not everyone/anyone can easily date or easily speak with women.


Let trench do his own thing, hopefully he will figure out what is best for him. At moment he has no idea what he is doing but does seem to slowly know what doesn't work.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 18, 2018, 11:26:07 PM

Are you HIM?
Not everyone/anyone can easily date or easily speak with women.


Let trench do his own thing, hopefully he will figure out what is best for him. At moment he has no idea what he is doing but does seem to slowly know what doesn't work.

Thanks LAman, I think you have got me down fairly well there. It's kind of held me back a lot with women in life I think. It's not really a choice on my part it's just the way I am. I mean I can talk to women a bit here & there but I'm a lot more low key as a matter of genetics I think on the conversation front.
Like you say I think I will work out at least what doesn't work then see how it goes from there. I think being out here at least gives me experience of what doesn't work so will hopefully get nearer the mark as a result.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 18, 2018, 11:35:36 PM
Nope, not at all..
I was in Chernigov for a weekend where I had a train-wreck of a date with a woman who liked to "honey trap" guys.. with all my experience I still feel like a fool and went to see her. However I ditched her the first evening after I found out she was engaged, had a child and this was only a way to "extract" cash, her b/f even drove the "taxi".

I went on Tinder, contacted a few in the right age-group and set up 4 dates that same night.  I was then approached by another 5-6 girls (yes girls) that was a bit out of my comfortzone age wise. I did meet one of them for a brief coffee, but it was pretty obvious early, not my cup of tea. Yet we had a nice chat and she was a great sweet young lady, but too young for me.

Chernigov has a population of about ~300 000 and had I stayed longer I could have had 2-3 dates per day if I wanted.
Or I could have had sex 24/7 with very young, very beautiful girls, for a ´very' small cash advance, that was the downside with Tinder I thought..

Possibly in towns where the women are desperate to get out or get their hands on some money smaller towns may work. Here in Lviv the women may have other options/better lifestyle.

Either that or your a male model or a pic of you sat in a sports car.

Maybe they find me ugly or something. I mean I no male model  but generally regarded myself as at least an average. In my tinder photo I'm not wearing my glasses so it can't be that. I'm not fat not muscular and I'm about 6ft tall. Though in my tinder profile it's just a couple of head shots. That's about it really.

I think it's sounds like your more able of the chatting to  women front than me. That or there is something else about you that appeals to them.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on June 19, 2018, 12:12:16 AM
Possibly in towns where the women are desperate to get out or get their hands on some money smaller towns may work. Here in Lviv the women may have other options/better lifestyle.

Either that or your a male model or a pic of you sat in a sports car.
Njet, neither a model or own a sportcar (or pretending to own one)

I can't tell you why I often get good respons, yeah sure I look handsome and serious (according to the ladies) and my info/profile tells that story as well. But I have never pretending to be someone else then just me in any way.
Quote
Maybe they find me ugly or something. I mean I no male model  but generally regarded myself as at least an average. In my tinder photo I'm not wearing my glasses so it can't be that. I'm not fat not muscular and I'm about 6ft tall. Though in my tinder profile it's just a couple of head shots. That's about it really.

I think it's sounds like your more able of the chatting to  women front than me. That or there is something else about you that appeals to them.
yes I would think so too, and that is exactly what I am telling you, this was not a gift from god, this was hard earned by practice, over and over again.
Many "njet angliyskiy" or simply "Njet" with a look like I just asked her to eat a turd, but also many nice conversations about life, future, the past or present.

You are a tourist, use that, ask around for everything, what to do, what to eat, where to eat, where to find local specialties, what is the best restaurant, but focus on asking pretty ladies that looks interesting to you and try and strike up a conversation.

I found many ladies were quite happy to just practice English for a few minutes or so, but every few minutes you get to talk to a woman, is experience, and you need to get just that.. 
 
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 19, 2018, 02:26:32 AM
Well, the lady flaked on me. I'm not too bothered as from her photo, etc I get the impression she would unlikely have been the one for me. I sent her a load of short messages to which she eventually replied that she was sorry she wanted to tell me earlier that she could not make it but didn't have my number. This is bs as she could have contacted me at the start of my messages so I was there & messaged for a good 40 minutes or so before she contacted me back on Viber. We are also on the dating website. I think she just got too nervous. I don't mind and was cool with her about it, to be honest I was a little nervous too. I think the main problem with many of these girls is that they do not feel comfortable meeting a guy on the hoof. I think I would have been better opening up a normal conversation on the dating sites rather than saying 'hey I'm here for you want to come and meet up' with them only knowing what is written in my dating profile about me.

I think the strategy is alright of calling them up on the hoof if their is no chemistry with the visit one as no point continuing if no chemistry there anyway so I see why 2tallbill did that. As someone said not so much ruthless as practicality. Perhaps it's easier in a bigger city to call them up on the fly or for certain people it works. I think though like said it's more a case of starting a conversation like you were at home then later telling them you can meet up there & then. I think luck plays a part also no doubt.

Well I shall persevere here and see if any girls walk by and show the required interest. Then if so hopefully get my rear into gear. I think I am learning nonetheless.

To be honest with you guys and one of you already knows this I had a chance encounter with a lady early on in the week on the trip to Lviv. She seemed to be very close to me quite quickly. I'm certain she liked me and she is on Viber also. She knows very little English though and is a couple of years older than me. Possibly she may be married or considered me too young/foreign but she seemed magnetically close/attracted to me. My means of checking her out seem to be restricted out here and I don't think she has understood my English message I sent her on Viber. So I will have to follow up & see with her when I get back.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 19, 2018, 04:37:11 AM
Well no joy as yet, I think any PUA is going to be sporadic on the right girl popping up so maybe, today, tommorrow or when ever. I've at least now got a line rehersed to come out with as usually I am left floundering as what to say. I will probably pop out later and generally just enjoy what I can of the place.

On the way back I passed a pregnant lady by a Church in the old town, she was walking around with hand out begging any passers buy for change, she snapped her fingers at me as I passed as if demanding it so. I guess even here like the rest of Ukraine the society is not kind to pregnant single ladies.

Oh, on the Fdating 4 women have looked at my profile (including the concert loving woman) and on Mamba 5 people have looked at my profile. Plus 1 for the woman from the other dating website that did'nt turn up today. So that is 10 in total, tough one I didn't write to and just posted her of a quick message now.

Looks like the others just don't bother checking into their profiles as been so long. It also loooks as though its limited here for women that regularly check into their profile because of the size of the city. Still looks like the sam holds true though that either she messages you first as she is interested or you need to mass spam a lot of women to get to the ones that take an interest in your profile from how I now see it.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on June 19, 2018, 05:31:19 AM
This is an amazing trip report!

Very long on assumptions on why the hero is not meeting women as well as various theories and excuses.

Though rather short on actual expierences, like I visited this museum or ate at this place. Have you even walked around L'viv? Have you seen the Opera House or the BDSM cafe~museum?

If there is a way to NOT to do this endeavor I nominate as the poster child or milk carton image Trenchcoat.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Davo2 on June 19, 2018, 06:18:38 AM
 Have you tried Dmnotify? I signed up a few weeks ago and received approx 15  messages in the first few days.

I'm back to square 1 again. Things cooled off with the woman I've been talking to, only chatting once a week now. Yesterday she admit ted what I suspected for a while, her ex won't let her young daughter move to another country, but we are still meeting in September.

I decided to date locally in the meantime and have a date lined up this weekend. Here's a tip Trench, don't wait for a woman to show interest, before you approach her.... It's not a night club where women are actively trying to catch your eye. I met my date in a cafe while having dinner with my friends. I literally imposed on her and sat at her table, with no invitation. I gave her no choice but to talk with me and after a few minutes we were friends on face book.

It's all about confidence and positive body language. I can tell you I'm not the most attractive specimen atm, after months of inactivity due to an injury, but with the right approach it's easy. You don't need pick up lines or rehearse what you're going to say..... All I said to this woman below was "Excuse me, you caught my eye, I have to introduce myself".... Keep it simple and to the point.



 

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 19, 2018, 07:05:36 AM
Thanks Davo, funny that line is similar to my pick up line. I looked on YouTube last night and strayed across a PUA guy that for once wasn't the exhuberant types you normally get on there but a more down to earth straight forward guy. Even still I rehearse it as simple as it is as I don't wish to be left high & dry as I'm not at all socially skilled on the intro side of things.

Well, turns out that girl I messaged last has messaged me back so I've responded back. Looks like I probably made a real pig's ear of my strategy by telling them direct when I was here that I'm already here so I could date when called upon. Looks like I would have been better keeping that to myself like with this one and just doing the usual online dating repotoire, 'hello how are you' etc. It looks like you get there faster sooner like that. I'm guessing otherwise the women think they are second choice because your date has bombed or they are going to be one of many different don't like it. Anyway will see how it goes.

I think with your FSW Davo it sounds like it may be lining itself up for a potential 'you pay of the husband' so he lets her take the kid out of the country' It's kind of what puts me off women with children as it can be yet another way to get stumped.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 19, 2018, 07:18:04 AM
Oh yeah, dmnnotify is a possibility still as is Ukrainedate. I basically hit all the free dating websites first, so they still remain. Probably about a page of women that log on regularly on both with dmnnotify being the more expensive one. Sometimes you see girls that turn up on both a paid for dating site & a free daring site. Hence why I hit the free ones first ;)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on June 19, 2018, 07:24:04 AM
Trenchcoat, Have you been on the streets, a museum a coffee shop went for a walk outside?

Stop posting and hit the streets.

Talk to the pretty women around the old center.

 
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Davo2 on June 19, 2018, 08:01:00 AM
I think with your FSW Davo it sounds like it may be lining itself up for a potential 'you pay of the husband' so he lets her take the kid out of the country' It's kind of what puts me off women with children as it can be yet another way to get stumped.

No not the case. I spent 18 months encouraging her to reunite her children, who were estranged from their father ( the reason we started chatting ) and it worked too well. He has a great relationship with them now and as a father myself, I wouldn't want my kids to move away either.

She would never ask for me to pay what's basically a bribe, she has a pretty high sense of morals, she even refused to allow me to reimburse her for her failed visa as I've "been more than generous"

I chalk it up to not meeting sooner, like I was advised to do. The fathers improving relationship with his daughter and the influence of a friend who's  relationship with a foreign man recently failed..... Who  knows, it might work out, but I've decided to have a back up plan if I'm traveling half way around the world for what might turn out to be a coffee date as friends.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: kynrazor on June 19, 2018, 08:11:10 AM
It is good to see you're out and about again Trench. I'm normally not inclined to comment on a TR until much later in the trip, for the off chance that I might influence the outcome, or jinx it.

Regardless of how your trip has progressed, I have had much admiration for your can-do spirit for embarking upon this ambitious trip out in the open with as someone said it, "boots on the ground". Many may have imagined, but not many can say they've actually gone and done it, unhindered by past experiences.

That said, I have read the story of your trip thus far, and the essence of it seems to point towards the case that perhaps you do not seem to be sure of what kind of woman exactly, that you're searching for. That I largely agree with many posters here.

I myself have thought of heading straight into the FSU many times, thrusting myself deep into the hearts of cities, towns and villages to scout for women on the ground but thought the proposition too risky for my liking. Not least because vetting the lass for any potential red flags would've had to be done on the ground too. A much more labour-intensive task than say Skype!

From my own perspective, I've always treated my search for my woman as a kind of recruitment process. In your case, a recruitment for future Mrs. Trenchy, someone who you can respect, trust, love and share your world with.

Once your trip comes to a finish, I think perhaps it might serve you well, to sit down, and reflect deeply upon yourself, and rank by decreasing priority, the qualities that are of utmost importance in the women you are looking for as potential wife material. Then figure out where these women are, what age they may be, what they usually desire and then, seek out accordingly.

Is it educational attainment and raw intelligence? Perhaps it is the Universities, public libraries, intellectual societies, one should get involved with. Or is it athleticism? Perhaps one should attend a yoga class, go on marathons, etc. Or is it affinity for children? Perhaps one can get involved in education groups, teacher associations, etc. Or is it love of nature? Then perhaps one might be best served going on safari trips, etc.

There are millions upon millions of FSU women of a decent marriageable age to filter through and I think it is fair to say, we as wife-seekers have limited time. None would've been able to go through millions of women, much less a million.

As with any recruitment process, I think one should strive towards making the most out of the dating tools available to him. Internet-dating? Skype? Penpals? Enthusiast groups? Chance meetings? Why not do all and spread the net far and wide? Why only cold-approaches?

Like any recruitment process, I would filter out those who do not meet my criteria. If they do not, then into the bin their CVs go. It could be the mere fact that she has tattoos, which may imply she's not very conservative. Granted, one would miss out on many good women and would always wonder what could've been but again, one has limited time. It is the same reason employers have a cut-off grade for fresh graduates whom they would at least interview as potential employees. Sure, they would have missed out on many amazing prospects but a certain amount of people is all they need to fill their needs. In our case, things couldn't be simpler, as we only need one, just one person to earn the privilege to be wife.

Granted, a certain period of time needs to pass to see if there is "chemistry" with the lass (I call this common ground) upon which a relationship may blossom, I personally think I wouldn't have wasted much time with those who are seemingly wishy-washy, or not serious as all, especially if there was a self-imposed deadline to find future wife. I think too often we tend to give women a free pass.

Still, at the end of the day, as with any search, I guess there is always an element of luck to it. I am however, inclined to think the more planning and effort we put in, the luckier we get.

I think the UK is the graveyard of Polish marriages. Of the 2 Polist guys I know from work both have ended up in divorce since coming to the UK begging the question is that extra money really worth it. Even I would agree with them that the bad ways inherent in English society is best avoided if possible.

Just my opinion. I'll focus on finding the woman first, before worrying about the longevity of the relationship, much less marriage and divorce down the road.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on June 19, 2018, 09:05:44 AM
I think she just got too nervous. I don't mind and was cool with her about it, to be honest I was a little nervous too. I think the main problem with many of these girls is that they do not feel comfortable meeting a guy on the hoof.


Trench, if a girl thinks you're a winner, she'll meet you anywhere on the hoof. You being nervous is a turnoff for most women. At your age, it shouldn't be happening anymore. Confidence = Sexy. Nervous = Ugly. Don't be ugly when you're talking to women.

Have you tried Dmnotify? I signed up a few weeks ago and received approx 15  messages in the first few days.


Keep in mind, dating sites that charge money want you to have a reason to keep spending money. Some, most or all of those contacting you may not be real women interested in you.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 19, 2018, 09:33:57 AM
Trenchcoat, Have you been on the streets, a museum a coffee shop went for a walk outside?

Stop posting and hit the streets.

Talk to the pretty women around the old center.

Yes of course I have, I have been in the Ethnology  Museum - kind of a let down as just random artifacts from other societies thrown together with little comparison never mind to Ukrainian society. I've been to the historical building museum - best bit was the pretty arch tiered Italian courtyard :) Otherwise little else worth seeing there, a few artifacts in rooms. I went the boredelli palace (or however it's spelled) house a couple of doors along, it had a rather friendly (and very large!) Babushka (Babushia) lady on the first floor she was very different to most of the museum staff in that she was chirpy and spoke good English. I've also eaten/drank out in various places and visited supermarkets.

I've also climbed up to the high tower lookout point and looked all across Lviv to the residential tower blocks in the distance. I've also gone in the tourist information office twice. Once to help me resolve a problem I shall tell you about in due course (since it us quite lengthy) and fortunately they had a girl on who spoke good English. The second time I visited Tourist Information to find out what to do around Lviv but neither staff spoke any English really that were on that time lol. So I bought a couple of Tourist Info guides there and picked up a couple of free leaflets in English. The guides are good one is on Lviv, about the right size with lots of pictures and not toO much writing. The other one is on Ukraine itself and I thought a good overview of Ukrainian culture all wrapped up into one handy book. Usually I just look up stuff on the Internet for free but these two guide books were very handy I thought that justified buying them. I will post up pics of them here when I get back, well I'll try to.

There was a girl in a supermarket on the checkout who seemed to be checking me out :D However, as soon as someone turned up to be served she switched back into the default sadistic look they all seem to have. I queued up to be served by her but I think the moment she discovered I knew no Russian or Ukrainian and she appeared to know no English all appeared lost there and she gave me no positive emotion whatsoever.

There aren't that my people that speak good English here in Lviv. I would say about perhaps 10-15 percent of the population. It's not pitifully low but it's a bit of a problem as even some of the girls on the foreign dating sites seem only moderate on it. Some seem to know German quite well here, a fair few better than the know English. I went in one of the shops and one of the Babushka type cashiers tried communicating in German, in at least one of the Museums as well. I  still can speak the odd spattering of German but am quite rusty at it and only really ever attained basic level on the first place. So it seems German here is known at least on a par if not more so than English.

It's why I've decided to learn Russian better when I get back. I will get hold of a tutor, online maybe and learn it better. For me as a UK guy rather than US and not needing to pour 100 percent of my energies into work or study I think putting a little time aside could pay dividends for me :)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 19, 2018, 09:48:32 AM
Trench, if a girl thinks you're a winner, she'll meet you anywhere on the hoof. You being nervous is a turnoff for most women. At your age, it shouldn't be happening anymore. Confidence = Sexy. Nervous = Ugly. Don't be ugly when you're talking to women.

Keep in mind, dating sites that charge money want you to have a reason to keep spending money. Some, most or all of those contacting you may not be real women interested in you.

Well she wouldn't have known I had a few slight nerves as we never met and when waiting I just stood there and tried to look relaxed which I pretty much was. It was a nice sunny day and pleasing to be outside. I just think she wasnt the right one. That and I noticed several hours later that she looked at my last message again 'a few minutes ago'. I'm pretty certain that because we hadn't Skyped etc beforehand she had gotten way more nervous than me and so decided to do a no show. I just kept it amicable in the messages and said it's ok for us to leave it at that sort of thing as I see nothing to gain in doing anything otherwise to a meeting where we weren't probably right for each other anyway.

The dating sites that charge money (monthly) I'm nothinking going to bother with. The dmnnotify has only 3 women I would be interested in and they are either on a while ago, not a high reply rate and one has a pic of her in some classical concert hall - so not a good sign for yours truly, lol. Ukraine date doesn't have that many that have been on recently and few of them take my fancy so again not really worth it. I would only be doing a month in either event but like you csay some fakes though I've found fakes on Mamba as well so I think its just a general problem like scammers unless with PPL where it's all goes through the roof on both.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 19, 2018, 10:58:42 AM
It is good to see you're out and about again Trench. I'm normally not inclined to comment on a TR until much later in the trip, for the off chance that I might influence the outcome, or jinx it.

Regardless of how your trip has progressed, I have had much admiration for your can-do spirit for embarking upon this ambitious trip out in the open with as someone said it, "boots on the ground". Many may have imagined, but not many can say they've actually gone and done it, unhindered by past experiences.

That said, I have read the story of your trip thus far, and the essence of it seems to point towards the case that perhaps you do not seem to be sure of what kind of woman exactly, that you're searching for. That I largely agree with many posters here.

I myself have thought of heading straight into the FSU many times, thrusting myself deep into the hearts of cities, towns and villages to scout for women on the ground but thought the proposition too risky for my liking. Not least because vetting the lass for any potential red flags would've had to be done on the ground too. A much more labour-intensive task than say Skype!

From my own perspective, I've always treated my search for my woman as a kind of recruitment process. In your case, a recruitment for future Mrs. Trenchy, someone who you can respect, trust, love and share your world with.

Once your trip comes to a finish, I think perhaps it might serve you well, to sit down, and reflect deeply upon yourself, and rank by decreasing priority, the qualities that are of utmost importance in the women you are looking for as potential wife material. Then figure out where these women are, what age they may be, what they usually desire and then, seek out accordingly.

Is it educational attainment and raw intelligence? Perhaps it is the Universities, public libraries, intellectual societies, one should get involved with. Or is it athleticism? Perhaps one should attend a yoga class, go on marathons, etc. Or is it affinity for children? Perhaps one can get involved in education groups, teacher associations, etc. Or is it love of nature? Then perhaps one might be best served going on safari trips, etc.

There are millions upon millions of FSU women of a decent marriageable age to filter through and I think it is fair to say, we as wife-seekers have limited time. None would've been able to go through millions of women, much less a million.

As with any recruitment process, I think one should strive towards making the most out of the dating tools available to him. Internet-dating? Skype? Penpals? Enthusiast groups? Chance meetings? Why not do all and spread the net far and wide? Why only cold-approaches?

Like any recruitment process, I would filter out those who do not meet my criteria. If they do not, then into the bin their CVs go. It could be the mere fact that she has tattoos, which may imply she's not very conservative. Granted, one would miss out on many good women and would always wonder what could've been but again, one has limited time. It is the same reason employers have a cut-off grade for fresh graduates whom they would at least interview as potential employees. Sure, they would have missed out on many amazing prospects but a certain amount of people is all they need to fill their needs. In our case, things couldn't be simpler, as we only need one, just one person to earn the privilege to be wife.

Granted, a certain period of time needs to pass to see if there is "chemistry" with the lass (I call this common ground) upon which a relationship may blossom, I personally think I wouldn't have wasted much time with those who are seemingly wishy-washy, or not serious as all, especially if there was a self-imposed deadline to find future wife. I think too often we tend to give women a free pass.

Still, at the end of the day, as with any search, I guess there is always an element of luck to it. I am however, inclined to think the more planning and effort we put in, the luckier we get.

Just my opinion. I'll focus on finding the woman first, before worrying about the longevity of the relationship, much less marriage and divorce down the road.

Hi Kyn, thanks for the input :) Well its something 2tallbill has brought up with me in the past to note down a personal criteria. There is a criteria, but its not really written down, or if I did its not refered to on a point by point basis as I go through the girls, I'm not that scientific ;) What basically happens when I bring up the girls is firstly, look at her face and ask myself, is this my type of girl? would she go well with me? is she the type I may be likely to find attractive? and could I see her as a miss Trench?

I generally don't go for the page 3 'Jordan' lookalike phoney looking girls. I generally like them thinish, clean looking, girly looking, authentic looking, often long straight hair but not universally and also a face that appeals to me.

secondly, I look at other aspects of her pics & profile, what sort of interest/hobbies she has - if she looks a very concert person its a big minus for her, if its art I don't mind though I'm again no big art enthusiast, if its athletic well I don't mind a little but if its obsessive I am not going to be able to keep up with her.

So I don't mind museums, visiting places, dining out, parks, even a little beach, etc. I would prefer the girl to be generic rather than hard core into something that I'm not. I also dont have any problem if she has an academic area of study, if its anywhere near my acaademic interests then all is good but in general if she has an academic interest then at least I can apprieiate it as something she likes to delve into.

dress wise while I am willing to accept most things I really feel that girls that like to dress girly in skirts & dresses are more on a par with me, not always but perhaps more so.

I find girls with big tattoos arent usually for me and a big downer, smoking is a downer too. I dont mind if she drinks alcohol though prefer it is not beer/lager though will give a bit on some of the criteria if the girl seems to generally be hitting the mark. A bit like in recruitment if someone doesnt have one thing but they have something else and could attain along the way the something they don't have but overal are right for the job.

I met a girl earlier in the week who seemed to hit the mark, its a long story so I won't go into it now and like said still need to check out her backstory, etc. She unfortunately smoked, she spoke little English at first but my perseverance with my google app translator and speaking basic english I think helped her improve over the coursse of our several hours together. She might be married, though I got the impression she is single don't know why but I will check this out. For several hours we seemed to go around like husband and wife, many people probably no doubt thought we were, she even bought me a bottle of water despite me pressing to pay for the both of us as is custom in Ukraine (she seemed taken aback by this) so totally different attitude from the last girl. We exchanged phone numbers, problem is apart from not yet finding out if she is married that she is two years older than me, so while having children is theoretically still possible it is often extremely difficult from what I have read up even with IVF its still a low percentage chance of pregnancy each month. That is before you get to issues of miscarriage etc. So not an easy one, though if she turns out to be married or has a bf then its a no go anyway. She certainly seemed into me though :) I will tell you more when I've found out more.

So in any case I still need to press on and learn & do all I can here.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 19, 2018, 11:33:09 AM
Have you tried Dmnotify? I signed up a few weeks ago and received approx 15  messages in the first few days.




Keep in mind, dating sites that charge money want you to have a reason to keep spending money. Some, most or all of those contacting you may not be real women interested in you.

BillyB,

You are married and  Davo isn't ... He is using the dating site DMnotify more than you and *I* recommend it - although I always point out my info is five years old - as I found SC on there

ALL the ladies I talked to / met via the site were genuine - the way their biz model works - a scammer would have been booted off

So, was your 'advice' general or do you really have some bad experience of DMnotify ?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on June 19, 2018, 11:58:17 AM
L'viv, Is a great city!

If Trenchcoat is going to have any success he is going to get away from his device and get out on the streets.

Trenchy we want to hear your observations and impressions from L'viv. Not your excuses why things are not working out.

Have you had a good cup of coffee from Centaur have you seen the book market, and have you seen the Pinsel museum?

If you say no to any of the above, you have a mission, get going!
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 19, 2018, 12:15:02 PM
L'viv, Is a great city!

If Trenchcoat is going to have any success he is going to get away from his device and get out on the streets.

Trenchy we want to hear your observations and impressions from L'viv. Not your excuses why things are not working out.

Have you had a good cup of coffee from Centaur have you seen the book market, and have you seen the Pinsel museum?

If you say no to any of the above, you have a mission, get going!

BD, Lviv is a great city and I am not stuck on my device. I get around and see stuff but at the sa me time my focud here is not so much tourism. A bit of tourism and being in a nice place was my fallback if it all went south.

During the day here I come back to mh apartment every now & then to cool off. It gets tiring walking around a lot and it is hot out. I reciprocate then go out again for a bit. I know getting to know the place and culture can pay dividends and I'm learning. However I would say the stuff you have put down is generally stuff that doesn't interest me, I'm not religious so small relihouse figurines is not really of any interest. I'm not really a book market sort of guy, etc. Yes I know the idea is to get out there interacting with people but if course  there are not lots of people that speak English. I am though grateful to be away from the huge American hordes of tourists in Krakow. This place has the feeling though that it's aways in danger of becoming the next Americanised Tourism outpost :( that would be a great shame. At the moment there are the odd brief few spattering here & there so that's fine.

I think if I need to explore this city much more than already then I would be best of in the hands of a local girl dating wise. I will push in and make what I can of all of this.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on June 19, 2018, 01:53:15 PM
OK, there is some hope.

Trenchcoat I am also somewhat socially challenged.

Long ago in L'viv coming to the central square in mid winter I offered an arm to a babushka on the icy sidewalks. She was grateful but as we got close to the center square she would not let go. When we arrived at the monument, she had a long and loud conversation to her what turned out to be daughter.

I was confused and eventually a local explained that grandmother wondered why her daughter could not find a gentleman. Seize the opportunity - go for i!
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on June 19, 2018, 03:59:35 PM

I found SC on there


I thought you found your wife on Mamba

BillyB,

You are married and  Davo isn't ... He is using the dating site DMnotify more than you and *I* recommend it

Maybe me being married is a sign I navigated through the dangerous waters of this endeavor. If Davo thinks 15 girls are going to write him first every few days based off his current experience, he's in a world of hurt. That's not realistic on any legitimate site. Many sites try to get the edge over competitors by giving the impression the girls are very active at their site.

Argue with the organizations below who talk about agency employees that write to men. I can't reason with you.

http://www.channel4.com/news/fools-for-love-how-one-internet-dating-firm-dupes-clients

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2013/feb/03/online-dating-protection-fraud

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-21366326

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110114/09203212668/matchcom-sued-over-deadfake-profiles.shtml

http://www.clg.org/Class-Action/List-of-Class-Actions/Yahoo-Personals-Dating-Class-Action

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/relevant/www.mate1.com
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Davo2 on June 19, 2018, 04:34:48 PM

Maybe me being married is a sign I navigated through the dangerous waters of this endeavor. If Davo thinks 15 girls are going to write him first every few days based off his current experience, he's in a world of hurt. That's not realistic on any legitimate site. Many sites try to get the edge over competitors by giving the impression the girls are very active at their site.


I agree with you Billy, there may be some non genuine women in there, but this isn't my first rodeo. I've spent a few years dating on local sites zoosk, pof, tinder etc... as well as some pretty dodgy sites where I didn't even have an active profile on and still got messages. There's quite a few scammers and non genuine sites locally also.

Due to my past I'm never going to he in a world of hurt again. I have a one strike rule and have walked away from  several local relationships due to this. I'm looking for a girl who has no red flags and I'm happy to stay single until I find her.

My experience so far on dmnotify has been  positive. 2 of the women who messaged suited my criteria and I also messaged 10 others, 8 replied and I'm now talking with 3 off site, as well as the 2 who initiated  contact.

Interestingly enough out of the 15, 12 had kids and most commented about the fact I have custody of mine. Throughout this journey it's been a common point that's attracted women. I'm searching for women in the  38-42 year range, with children, so despite my scepticism, maybe 15 messages isn't unusual, considering these women usually get looked over by the majority of men.

Edit... I'll also point out that some I had on my favourites list cannot be contacted as they are under review, so it shows the site is proactive in weeding out suspect women.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 20, 2018, 12:15:23 AM
When I started back on this endeavour a couple of years ago now I was on EM. After 2-3 months about almost half the girls I had been talking to had been removed because they were found to be dodgy. Granted they were mostly from the well known big cities in the FSU. Yes in part it is good that there is some active review/cleaning the site of dodgy profiles but it also shows that dodgy profiles are getting through in the first place and that is not good. Time & effort can be spent on the wrong girl, it may not be a lot but it all adds up. Plus worst case scenario something far worse happens.

Free sites are not immune to dodgy profiles either. I've found profiles on Mamba where a FSU model has been used taken off some roadside billboard in the FSU lol. Generally if there is just one photo on there be wary, if she looks like a model more so.

Another pet peeve of mine on internet dating sites are girls that exclusively wear sunglasses, hats & scarfs in all of their photo's. It looks ridiculous like their an undercover secret operative I don't know why they do it, I can't tell who the hell they are or whether they would appeal to me. I don't think all of these are fakes either just some women that don't understand that the man needs to see them. Some also wear those big awful almost puffer jacket type of winter coats that seem so popular out in the FSU. Again it completely masks their figure and often looks awful it's just a straight down tube like try have git stuck in an oversized toilet roll. Girls in hiking gear I'm also not a fan off it kind if looks scruffy and doesn't show the female figure if well.

Well anyway, one important point to note here is that my American flag t-shirt seems to be having little impact here in Lviv. I see no one else wearing any American flag t-shirts, none of the girls are so it was either just last year's fashion or it was more fashion specific to places like Odessa perhaps. Not being American it kind of feels a bit strange though I guess it's not really obvious American flag, it's a kind of blue relief rather than a formal rigid flag print.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 20, 2018, 12:33:53 AM
I thought you found your wife on Mamba

IF I was looking for a hooker  ( or a date leading to a quick shag ) I'd try there or Tinder.....

Maybe me being married is a sign I navigated through the dangerous waters of this endeavor. If Davo thinks 15 girls are going to write him first every few days based off his current experience, he's in a world of hurt. That's not realistic on any legitimate site. Many sites try to get the edge over competitors by giving the impression the girls are very active at their site.


Again, my info is 5 years out of date - but I had more than than 15/day when I first joined ...   I responded to them all - mostly declining further correspondence - the one's I DID correspond with / then later video-chatted were genuine. 

Argue with the organizations below who talk about agency employees that write to men. I can't reason with you.

BillyB posts lot's of links that don't prove dmnotify is a scam site - typical BillyB - makes a statement and obfuscates when HIS 'reasoning' is - rightfully- queried


In the mean time - it is noted you dodged the 'helping new members ' question ...



Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 20, 2018, 12:35:34 AM
When I started back on this endeavour a couple of years ago now I was on EM. After 2-3 months about almost half the girls I had been talking to had been removed because they were found to be dodgy.

...and how do you know their 'removal'' wasn't  voluntary ? ... 

[edited to add]

I see you are a fashion victim, too ;))
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 20, 2018, 12:57:03 AM
...and how do you know their 'removal'' wasn't  voluntary ? ... 

[edited to add]

I see you are a fashion victim, too ;))

I know, lol

I got an email through from EM admin that their profile had been taken as it had been found or reasoanble suspicions had been raised that it was dodgy. I got many of these emails through.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 20, 2018, 12:59:55 AM
I know, lol

I got an email through from EM admin that their profile had been taken as it had been found or reasoanble suspicions had been raised that it was dodgy. I got many of these emails through.

Did you report the ladies - or get an email as general info ?

The latter would be totally illegal - even under old privacy laws

I recall seeing 'profile removed at member or admin's request'
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 20, 2018, 02:38:41 AM
Did you report the ladies - or get an email as general info ?

The latter would be totally illegal - even under old privacy laws

I recall seeing 'profile removed at member or admin's request'

It was the latter but of course it didn't state specifically that she was dodgy but that was what was all too obvious reading between the lines. They put it how you just put it or it 'didnt meet the strict requirements if their rules' or something to that affect. I think it also stated if I had engaged in contact with her of the site then their advice was to cease such activities. So all in all it was dodgy as otherwise they would not intervene as such.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 20, 2018, 04:56:53 AM
Well, today I went to the Potocki Palace it is now an art museum. The inside is ok but not overly grand compared to some other palaces. Mostly old religious paintings, portraits & a few ornaments in here. The most interesting was a display of ornaments to the last Emperor of China, Pu Yi, not exactly the same culture, lol.

What I've noticed as a common element to all these museums is that they are not exactly prime locations for pulling women. Some don't exactly evendors get many visitors. Those that are hot babe's are normally walking around with a guy.

So it looks like my best net for pulling women is either around the shopping area just of the old town or in the old town where they tend to sit oug in the cafes. In the shopping area most ate found walking along rather than in the shops so much. It's busy so would really be a case of finding a quiet not to boring spot, preferably on a corner and chilling out there. I get the impression even there many women make their way into the old town. The strip in from of the Opera House I find not so good too many families there.

Some of the girls figures are amazing, particularly the tall thin ones, would be a rare find in the UK indeed.

Anyway, it's these girls that I think may most likely be interested in a WM the girks you get in a museum are not really my type they are too engrossed anyway a log of the time in the artifacts are kind of geeky and not dressed that well, often wear those horrible denim shorts that I just find so unflattering.

Oh also came across another pregnant woman begging for money today. It looks like single motherhood is not kind to these ladies.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on June 20, 2018, 05:06:34 AM
My observation regarding museums is that many women who visit such places do so in pairs. In one sense this doubles you chances on the other side the female visitors are not interested in intrusions.

The Potocki Palace features revolving exhibitions as I recall. I would recommend visiting the Pinsel museum. It is quite small and in what was a church. The Café called Centaur on the old square will suit your needs quite nicely.

Regarding the pregnant women begging I suspect those that you have seen are Roma, and compared to say Kivy there is a larger population of them in the West of Ukraine.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 20, 2018, 05:13:24 AM
Walking in Cheltenham, UK....Seen plenty of tall, slim lasses...ignore Trench...!
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 20, 2018, 06:09:32 AM
Walking in Cheltenham, UK....Seen plenty of tall, slim lasses...ignore Trench...!

Lol, admit it Mobe, your a chubby chaser on the quiet ;D
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on June 20, 2018, 06:23:00 AM
Lol, admit it Mobe, your a chubby chaser on the quiet ;D

good one Trenchy ~ now back to the task at hand ~ perhaps visit the Masoch Café yes the Count Sader Masoch he is a L'viv native
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 20, 2018, 06:23:59 AM
My observation regarding museums is that many women who visit such places do so in pairs. In one sense this doubles you chances on the other side the female visitors are not interested in intrusions.

The Potocki Palace features revolving exhibitions as I recall. I would recommend visiting the Pinsel museum. It is quite small and in what was a church. The Café called Centaur on the old square will suit your needs quite nicely.

Regarding the pregnant women begging I suspect those that you have seen are Roma, and compared to say Kivy there is a larger population of them in the West of Ukraine.


I think your right the pregnant one yesterday at least was most likey Roma, the one I saw today though was blonde not dark haired like the one yesterday. While she might have been Roma possibly more likely Ukrainian. I know the first girl I met said their are no state handouts for non-Ukrainians which is why they don't have an asylum seeker problem.

Well if the Potocki Palace exhibitions literally revolved then it would have been far more interesting, lol. I know what you mean they display different work at different times. The Pu Yi exhibit was small but somewhat interesting to me having watched the 80's film and being a bit of a history buff.

I think your right with the women in attendance, they generally are not the sort to appreciate hook ups and are difficult to access particularly like you say in pairs.

Well, I've got a couple of women online that might possibly come through for a meet. It looks like sending girks my spiel up front about why I am there was a big mistake as it definitely looks like a little bit of bait at a time works far better.

I think that not getting these girls on pre-heat first before going out here was also another mess upon my part. Lesson learned there. I will press on and move forward as best I can.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 20, 2018, 06:25:27 AM
BD, Cafe's yes I will get back out there now! :D
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 20, 2018, 07:20:11 AM
Ok, I'm out here again now, funny but looks like a lot of the younger girls say around early to mid twenties show a fair bit of interest in foreign men. Got that impression the other day at the high castle view point. I think they see it as something to aspire to.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 20, 2018, 09:53:12 AM

good one Trenchy ~ now back to the task at hand ~ perhaps visit the Masoch Café yes the Count Sader Masoch he is a L'viv native


Well briefly looked in there, it's pretty narrow with some geezers drinking at the back. The Centaur I walked passed and was kind of fine dining ish with the odd family and very little talent, a few blokes, etc. It may be a case of time of day.

I instead sat & had a drink across from a table full of girls outside one restaurant. At least a couple of them had flicked their hair and smiled as I approached the restaurant. To be honest though they were on the younger side and it looked like they just wanted to be admired.

A lot of the girls in cafes are either in groups or couples. I've noticed some real pretty ones but it seems almost universal that if they notice you at all it tends to be that they want admiration mostly for making the effort of getting all dolled up.

Where I do think is perhaps more promising is down the side of the Magnus department/grocery store. I find that a fair amount of attractive young lady's sit on the window plinths outside the store. They have done themselves up but not to the extent of many in town so are not out for looks of admiration so much (though I still admire anyhow ;) ) It's kind of busy but there's stuff around where I might be able to get comfortable for a while. It's not ideal if like the old town but more likely to come across one there perhaps.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Bee Farmer on June 20, 2018, 05:19:18 PM
Quote
I think it's probably been ruined as a pick up ground as you've no doubt had a lot of sex tourists coming here to pick up women. Even during my stay you could see the odd few prowling around. I think that is most likely the main reason young women have learned to look away from all blokes that look at them. For most women the thought of being picked up to be used as an arse by some bloke for the night is probably not a pleasant one. Probably akin to feeling like a prostitute. I see sex as part of a relationship but sex tourists just want sex and mess it up for guys like me.

Whether you realize it or not, what you're basically saying is that you're a sex tourist who claims to be looking for a relationship as his angle to pick up the girls.

On the way back I passed a pregnant lady by a Church in the old town, she was walking around with hand out begging any passers buy for change, she snapped her fingers at me as I passed as if demanding it so. I guess even here like the rest of Ukraine the society is not kind to pregnant single ladies.

Did you give her a few grivna?  That's money well spent.

A few grivna means nothing to you, but it actually will mean something to her.  A few grivna, a smile and a few kind words in English, and she will remember you...and will tell her girlfriends about the kind, generous English-speaking man.  Don't think that word doesn't spread.  Every babushka within binocular distance is watching every move you make.

Quote
I looked on YouTube last night and strayed across a PUA guy that for once wasn't the exhuberant types you normally get on there but a more down to earth straight forward guy. Even still I rehearse it as simple as it is as I don't wish to be left high & dry as I'm not at all socially skilled on the intro side of things.

Forget the PUA nonsense.  Girls can tell when you are pretending to be something you are not.  Turn your weaknesses into strengths.

Quote
I queued up to be served by her but I think the moment she discovered I knew no Russian or Ukrainian and she appeared to know no English all appeared lost there and she gave me no positive emotion whatsoever.

Then speak the universal language.  Make eye contact, and give her a little smile.  (Smile with your eyes too, not just a fake lip smile.) 

Quote
There aren't that my people that speak good English here in Lviv. I would say about perhaps 10-15 percent of the population. It's not pitifully low but it's a bit of a problem

3/4 of a million people in Lviv, which is 75,000-100,000 that know English.  Keep in mind, the bulk of them that know English are younger.  That's a LOT of English speakers.

Quote
It's why I've decided to learn Russian better when I get back. I will get hold of a tutor, online maybe and learn it better. For me as a UK guy rather than US and not needing to pour 100 percent of my energies into work or study I think putting a little time aside could pay dividends for me

Hiring a Ukrainian translator/guide is likely a better use of your funds than Russian lessons, for your intents and purposes.  If you find a girl you want to spend the rest of your life with, then think about Russian lessons. (but English lessons for her will be a better idea.)

Since you are a cheapskate, I'll tell you a secret for getting a dirt cheap translator/guide.  Toastmasters.  Toastmasters is a worldwide club to help people practice better public speaking. 
According to this guy, there is a Toastmasters in Lviv, where they practice speaking English.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJZebClNUY4
http://www.facebook.com/Toastmasters.Ukraine/
So contact the Lviv Toastmasters, and make some friends.  They can practice their English with you, and they can help show you around and introduce you to some girls.  I'm sure you can hire one of them a lot cheaper than a regular English speaking guide or interpreter.

Another way of getting a cheap interpreter/guide is to contact a local university and ask for the department that teaches English.  Hire a college kid who speaks decent English to help you.  They will be able to give you dating advice too.  IIRC, you can get an extremely good interpreter for $5 USD per hour. (likely less)

Quote
Another pet peeve of mine on internet dating sites are girls that exclusively wear sunglasses, hats & scarfs in all of their photo's. It looks ridiculous like their an undercover secret operative I don't know why they do it, I can't tell who the hell they are or whether they would appeal to me. I don't think all of these are fakes either just some women that don't understand that the man needs to see them. Some also wear those big awful almost puffer jacket type of winter coats that seem so popular out in the FSU. Again it completely masks their figure and often looks awful it's just a straight down tube like try have git stuck in an oversized toilet roll. Girls in hiking gear I'm also not a fan off it kind if looks scruffy and doesn't show the female figure if well.

You just don't understand female psychology.  You are treating the dating websites like a meat market. (and women don't like to be viewed as a piece of meat.)
Men want to see the female figure to know if we are interested in getting to know the girl better.  Many women on dating websites do not understand the importance of putting on pictures that flatter them, and show off their best features.  Guys are visually attracted, and that is what is most important to us.
Girls are more interested in an emotional connection, and building a relationship.  So they approach online dating thinking guys are just like them.  They put up pictures of them doing activities, or places they have been.  Because to the girl, what is important to her was the experience.  They don't understand that guys have zero interest in seeing her hiking trip, skiing trip, hats and sunglasses at the beach, etc.  Guys want to see pictures that show her physical beauty.

This also gives you instructions for the kinds of pictures to put on your profiles.  If you're a girl, use pics that flatter you.  Don't waste your time with pics of you doing things, because guys aren't interested in seeing pics of those activities.  If you're a guy, forget trying to use pics that flatter you physically.  Those pics are not important to girls.  Use pics (even if they barely show your appearance) of you doing things.  It is those activities and experiences that women want to learn about. 

If I was in your shoes, I would get an interpreter/guide.  Then I would go to a church or somewhere that I could get in touch with the babushka network of old women.  I would convince the babushkas of what a fine upstanding man I was, in search of a good woman.  Then tell them what characteristics you are looking for.  The interpreter will help immensely in communication with the babushkas, because they won't know English, but the babushkas are going to know every single girl in the neighborhood and the quality of her character.  If the babushkas like you, they will filter out all the scammers and they will have the highest quality girls lining up for you and you will have the best possible introduction that you could ever dream of.  (But if you act like a sex tourist, it will blow up in your face faster and worse than you can imagine.)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Davo2 on June 20, 2018, 06:16:56 PM

This also gives you instructions for the kinds of pictures to put on your profiles.  If you're a girl, use pics that flatter you.  Don't waste your time with pics of you doing things, because guys aren't interested in seeing pics of those activities.  If you're a guy, forget trying to use pics that flatter you physically.  Those pics are not important to girls.  Use pics (even if they barely show your appearance) of you doing things.  It is those activities and experiences that women want to learn about. 


There's some great advice here.... It's interesting you commented about the difference in how each gender should betray themselves in their pictures, when online dating. I read an article that drew the same conclusions when I first started dating online.

The picture that receives the most comments from women is the one below. It shouldn't attract a Russian woman if you go by much of the advice suggesting dressing nicely etc... Even though my back is turned and I'm bare foot,  it's unusual and never fails to draw their admiration. There's a bit of a romantic quality to being able to ride a horse, it's something that has always worked well for me and been the reason many have initiated contact, locally and fsuw.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Bee Farmer on June 20, 2018, 06:33:35 PM
Another tip for the ladies is to not post pics of you wearing black.  You may look stunning wearing a black dress in real life, but photographs of black clothing do not flatter your figure at all.  Black in photos hides all detail.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 20, 2018, 10:41:40 PM
Bee farmer.

I realise I am not a lady but I used a profile photo in a black DJ ( Tux?)  .... it was my profile's most popular photo!))
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 20, 2018, 11:14:52 PM
Whether you realize it or not, what you're basically saying is that you're a sex tourist who claims to be looking for a relationship as his angle to pick up the girls.

Did you give her a few grivna?  That's money well spent.

A few grivna means nothing to you, but it actually will mean something to her.  A few grivna, a smile and a few kind words in English, and she will remember you...and will tell her girlfriends about the kind, generous English-speaking man.  Don't think that word doesn't spread.  Every babushka within binocular distance is watching every move you make.

Forget the PUA nonsense.  Girls can tell when you are pretending to be something you are not.  Turn your weaknesses into strengths.

Then speak the universal language.  Make eye contact, and give her a little smile.  (Smile with your eyes too, not just a fake lip smile.) 

3/4 of a million people in Lviv, which is 75,000-100,000 that know English.  Keep in mind, the bulk of them that know English are younger.  That's a LOT of English speakers.

Hiring a Ukrainian translator/guide is likely a better use of your funds than Russian lessons, for your intents and purposes.  If you find a girl you want to spend the rest of your life with, then think about Russian lessons. (but English lessons for her will be a better idea.)

Since you are a cheapskate, I'll tell you a secret for getting a dirt cheap translator/guide.  Toastmasters.  Toastmasters is a worldwide club to help people practice better public speaking. 
According to this guy, there is a Toastmasters in Lviv, where they practice speaking English.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJZebClNUY4
http://www.facebook.com/Toastmasters.Ukraine/
So contact the Lviv Toastmasters, and make some friends.  They can practice their English with you, and they can help show you around and introduce you to some girls.  I'm sure you can hire one of them a lot cheaper than a regular English speaking guide or interpreter.

Another way of getting a cheap interpreter/guide is to contact a local university and ask for the department that teaches English.  Hire a college kid who speaks decent English to help you.  They will be able to give you dating advice too.  IIRC, you can get an extremely good interpreter for $5 USD per hour. (likely less)

You just don't understand female psychology.  You are treating the dating websites like a meat market. (and women don't like to be viewed as a piece of meat.)
Men want to see the female figure to know if we are interested in getting to know the girl better.  Many women on dating websites do not understand the importance of putting on pictures that flatter them, and show off their best features.  Guys are visually attracted, and that is what is most important to us.
Girls are more interested in an emotional connection, and building a relationship.  So they approach online dating thinking guys are just like them.  They put up pictures of them doing activities, or places they have been.  Because to the girl, what is important to her was the experience.  They don't understand that guys have zero interest in seeing her hiking trip, skiing trip, hats and sunglasses at the beach, etc.  Guys want to see pictures that show her physical beauty.

This also gives you instructions for the kinds of pictures to put on your profiles.  If you're a girl, use pics that flatter you.  Don't waste your time with pics of you doing things, because guys aren't interested in seeing pics of those activities.  If you're a guy, forget trying to use pics that flatter you physically.  Those pics are not important to girls.  Use pics (even if they barely show your appearance) of you doing things.  It is those activities and experiences that women want to learn about. 

If I was in your shoes, I would get an interpreter/guide.  Then I would go to a church or somewhere that I could get in touch with the babushka network of old women.  I would convince the babushkas of what a fine upstanding man I was, in search of a good woman.  Then tell them what characteristics you are looking for.  The interpreter will help immensely in communication with the babushkas, because they won't know English, but the babushkas are going to know every single girl in the neighborhood and the quality of her character.  If the babushkas like you, they will filter out all the scammers and they will have the highest quality girls lining up for you and you will have the best possible introduction that you could ever dream of.  (But if you act like a sex tourist, it will blow up in your face faster and worse than you can imagine.)

Thanks Bee Farmer, that's incredible advice it's like approach information this in a whole different manner. I've only got a few days left here now so not really got the time to go do it that way now but I'll definitely look into it for the future. Well it's looking like a couple of girls may come through for a meet. One I had checked her out before coming out here and she was very much one I wanted to meet, she is pretty looking but also looks genuine looking. She did not respond to my messages so it looked hopeless with her then all of a sudden yesterday out if the blue she responded. So I am hopeful.

Making contacts prearrival with those you suggest sounds like a great idea :) It would really help to avoid the isolation of being somewhere without really knowing anyone. I will definitely work on it for future outings particularly before coming out here.

Yeah it's strange with the photo's. I decided to go with photos of me with relatively neutral background's, pleasant but generic scenery, grasslands, etc since I wanted the girl to look at me and not lifestyle or an iconic building say the Effifel Tower. Get away from any distraction in the photo. Perhaps though as you suggest I might have overdone it and they see things differently to us. I will consider putting one or two carefully chosen relatively modest activity shots in. Nothing too boring looking as cycling or too extreme but hopefully something in between without seemingly too staged also, many thanks :)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on June 20, 2018, 11:25:36 PM
I have been to Toastmaster meetings before there is a decided culture. Never would I have considered it a means for the goals the Trenchcoat has/

As for a guide while a very old contact you might want to consider this > www.lviv4you.com < I have not even checked if this guy is still working as a guide. But he helped me the first time I was in L'viv.

Good luck!
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 20, 2018, 11:58:44 PM
I have been to Toastmaster meetings before there is a decided culture. Never would I have considered it a means for the goals the Trenchcoat has/

As for a guide while a very old contact you might want to consider this > www.lviv4you.com < I have not even checked if this guy is still working as a guide. But he helped me the first time I was in L'viv.

Good luck!


Well if he comes dressed like that he will definitely make an impact for me with the Babushkas ;D

Decided culture?

I quite like Bee Farmer's suggestion of the Uni English department or similar English Language School perhaps. As a guy with a lot of time spent as a student it would probably be a background I would be comfortable with. Would no doubt be applicable advice for any city visited I guess.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on June 21, 2018, 12:16:34 AM

Another way of getting a cheap


If I was in your shoes, .)

Talking cheap -- that is TC's language !

In his shoes?    Given your ideas about seeking a virgin -- that lines up with TC too  -- maybe you can advise him how to tell when looking at a girl if she is a virgin? :cluebat:
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 08:35:29 AM
Hey does anyone here know why alcohol & food are billed separately when it comes to the bill in Ukraine?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on June 21, 2018, 08:56:03 AM
Hey does anyone here know why alcohol & food are billed separately when it comes to the bill in Ukraine?


It seems to have always been that way. I suspect it is because there are different taxes rates involved.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 11:45:29 AM


It seems to have always been that way. I suspect it is because there are different taxes rates involved.


Ah, I see makes sense I guess, the credit card I got charges no fees on foreign currency so I shouldn't be hit too bad.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 12:01:21 PM
Well I've just been to meet a girl, we went for a drink, she first ordered a bottle of wine, said it made little difference because we both wanted wine. I was ok on that as it's not worth picking hairs. She apparently also ordered a strawberry shake to go with it unbeknown to me.

After a bit of chit chat back and forth she then wanted me to buy her some cigarettes because she was out and apparently had taken the taxi. Now I have heard all this bs before and there was no way I was going to fall for it again. It was time to fold, I simply thanked her for coming and told her she was not the right kind of girl for me and after paying the bill left her to finish her drink.

I've enjoyed my time out this way but looks like the way I chose to go about it all this time was a mistake. Still experience gained and I hope to do better at this next time. Checking out these girls throughly before I come out is pretty well needed otherwise anything can pop up and probably not in a good way.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on June 21, 2018, 12:08:39 PM
Oh, wow.  I can see how she was using poor Trench.  A pack of cigarettes costs less than a pound, and a fruit drink?  The horrors!  That must have set him back almost 2 pounds!  Yup, those UW don't know their place, ripping him off to that extent.   :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 21, 2018, 12:26:46 PM
Oh, wow.  I can see how she was using poor Trench.  A pack of cigarettes costs less than a pound, and a fruit drink?  The horrors!  That must have set him back almost 2 pounds!  Yup, those UW don't know their place, ripping him off to that extent.   :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

The problem being she will tell other UW that Brits are stingy  ((
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 12:31:23 PM
Oh, wow.  I can see how she was using poor Trench.  A pack of cigarettes costs less than a pound, and a fruit drink?  The horrors!  That must have set him back almost 2 pounds!  Yup, those UW don't know their place, ripping him off to that extent.   :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It just set a bad precedent Boe, she got the table reserved so we could return. I've been there with the last girl, once you start getting strung along then there is this, then that, then also that, etc.

The place is full of trams & busses so I reckon her taxi story was bull. I reckon she would have gotten me not just to buy cigarettes (which I can do without as I don't smoke) but doubtless more drink, probably a meal, she was talking nightclub at one point so maybe, etc, etc.

The fact that she was pressing me to pay for cigarettes was a bad sign to me. It starts of small or on thing then rolls on. Not for me.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 12:33:43 PM
The problem being she will tell other UW that Brits are stingy  ((

Better they get told we're stingy than fools ;D Besides I was already generous enough with her drink so she didn't lose out.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 12:38:54 PM
Thing is from her I wasn't getting the Inquisition either online or in person. Neither did I actually know that much about her or even have her number. All the messaging was done on the dating site and even then very little info, background stuff was exchanged either way. For me not a great sign really.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on June 21, 2018, 12:41:09 PM

It just set a bad precedent Boe, she got the table reserved so we could return. I've been there with the last girl, once you start getting strung along then there is this, then that, then also that, etc.

The place is full of trams & busses so I reckon her taxi story was bull. I reckon she would have gotten me not just to buy cigarettes (which I can do without as I don't smoke) but doubtless more drink, probably a meal, she was talking nightclub at one point so maybe, etc, etc.

The fact that she was pressing me to pay for cigarettes was a bad sign to me. It starts of small or on thing then rolls on. Not for me.
Better they get told we're stingy than fools ;D Besides I was already generous enough with her drink so she didn't lose out.

Correct me if I am wrong, wasn't this a girl you asked out on a date?



Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 12:48:16 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, wasn't this a girl you asked out on a date?

Yes I did, I said will have a drink together, that is it. I'm not going to be marched up and down the street and told to buy this or that for her. It's not the type of personality I want.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on June 21, 2018, 12:51:59 PM
Yes I did, I said will have a drink together, that is it. I'm not going to be marched up and down the street and told to buy this or that for her. It's not the type of personality I want.

ok, so - one drink together, you were clear about this fact, not a date per se, but just a (1-2) drink and then home.
Just trying to understand your thought process here.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 01:02:32 PM
ok, so - one drink together, you were clear about this fact, not a date per se, but just a (1-2) drink and then home.
Just trying to understand your thought process here.

Yes that is correct.

Put it this way, if we known each other a while then maybe not so bad, but it was more the statement that she tells me I am buying her cigarettes.

She stated a taxi there cost her 200 UAH, don't that but even so she would no don't expect me to pay for taxi back and the rest.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 01:18:24 PM
She didn't exactly seem distraught over how to get back either. So I'm guessing she had money on her alright. She stated she had none after paying the taxi, lol. I know the taxi from the train station is about 100 UAH and if course she can call it up cheaper. I just don't see any milage in a relationship where a woman tries to dupe you and tells you to pay for stuff for her.

She also showed me some photos of expensive shoes & jewellery while she was on holiday. Another not good sign for me. To be honest I sensed her as perhaps less genuine than the last girl.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 21, 2018, 01:22:36 PM
Trench

You do realise you might as well be posting how NOT to go about dating in the FSU ?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on June 21, 2018, 01:24:50 PM
Yes that is correct.

Put it this way, if we known each other a while then maybe not so bad, but it was more the statement that she tells me I am buying her cigarettes.

She stated a taxi there coat her 200 UAH, don't that but even so she would no don't expect me to pah for taxi back and the rest.

I know you are expecting me to bash you, and I am not going to, you decide the settings for your dates, why you walk away or don't is your decision. I would guess if you walked away so easy from this one, the sparks wasn't really there.

Just make sure you understand what the ladies expect when you ask them out.

If we do this is theoretical.
If I ask a woman out for a date, ie. "will you do me the honor and meet me for a drink"
That is for me an invite to a date, what comes after that first drink, only time could tell, more drinks, a meal, visiting a nightclub, anything she and I wanted to do would be included but I would expect to take 100% of the bill regardless of what she wanted to have, including smokes. And pay for her coming and going. </end theoretical>

Now you say you did not make such invite, and will take your word for that, but maybe the lady here did expect this.. and in her defense if so, yes you should pay for "everything" included in that date, as you been told many times before.

Now I have no idea how good she spoke English, but always keep in mind that most people that are not native speaking, a lot is lost in nuances of the language, how you express certain words and meanings.. I can't even find the word I am thinking of here, but I hope you understand what I mean, everything has an impact in how much she really understand even if she speaks "good english"

Anyway, I think you should have hold out for a little while longer, even if the fireworks didn't go off, you had nothing else to do, it would have cost you maybe $10 more... but you would have gotten more experience talking and interacting with a woman, of which you need a lot.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on June 21, 2018, 01:28:58 PM
It’s a lost cause. He will never have enough trust to be successful.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on June 21, 2018, 01:29:50 PM
@Trenchcoat You are again being unclear about expressing yourself! I think that you are seeking a woman who is careful with money, and who will always spend your money wisely. Such women do exist! My wife is a prime example, and has always spent our money carefully. I know that my wife never had much money before meeting me, and has not changed her spending habits following our marriage. It is just the way that she is programmed. I noticed this attribute on our first meeting, when she would only eat the cheapest item on the restaurant menu. Such women do exist, and I was lucky to meet my wife on my first trip to Ukraine.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 01:39:09 PM
I know you are expecting me to bash you, and I am not going to, you decide the settings for your dates, why you walk away or don't is your decision. I would guess if you walked away so easy from this one, the sparks wasn't really there.

Just make sure you understand what the ladies expect when you ask them out.

If we do this is theoretical.
If I ask a woman out for a date, ie. "will you do me the honor and meet me for a drink"
That is for me an invite to a date, what comes after that first drink, only time could tell, more drinks, a meal, visiting a nightclub, anything she and I wanted to do would be included but I would expect to take 100% of the bill regardless of what she wanted to have, including smokes. And pay for her coming and going. </end theoretical>

Now you say you did not make such invite, and will take your word for that, but maybe the lady here did expect this.. and in her defense if so, yes you should pay for "everything" included in that date, as you been told many times before.

Now I have no idea how good she spoke English, but always keep in mind that most people that are not native speaking, a lot is lost in nuances of the language, how you express certain words and meanings.. I can't even find the word I am thinking of here, but I hope you understand what I mean, everything has an impact in how much she really understand even if she speaks "good english"

Anyway, I think you should have hold out for a little while longer, even if the fireworks didn't go off, you had nothing else to do, it would have cost you maybe $10 more... but you would have gotten more experience talking and interacting with a woman, of which you need a lot.

I disagree, I pay for drinks as stated, if it's more actual dating than a meet I will pay for food & any entertainment or if I stated that up front. As a first time meet I do not include cigarettes in that.

I never agreed to pay taxi expenses out there if this was even the case. I would only pay it back of it was possibly unsafe to use other means and  the date didn't end early.

Even the second girl that blew me off early in Nikolaev said she would get the tram back. So she was at least genuine.

It's really a genuine girl I am looking for. She was eyeing me a little from the corner of her eye but J don't think it was genuine. I could be wrong but I would rather move on than spend time with a woman where I get 'told' to buy her this of thatand manipulated with reasons why. I've had that before so don't need it again.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: IvanM07 on June 21, 2018, 01:55:07 PM
I don't have as much exp as you trench, but I would compare it to a date in the US/UK. Food and Drinks are cheaper there. Average date here in the US is $50-$70 if you go somewhere nice.

As you get close to that marker on a first date I would call it off. All in she probably only costed you $20 probably?

I wouldn't have called it just yet, I understand your apprehension, I did a background check on the women I was going to visit and that helped a lot with Trust issues, being able to see their social media, employment, etc. Maybe you should do that in the future to help with any trust issues?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on June 21, 2018, 01:59:15 PM
I disagree, I pay for drinks as stated, if it's more actual dating than a meet I will pay for food & any entertainment or if I stated that up front. As a first time meet I do not include cigarettes in that.


I never agreed to pay taxi expenses out there if this was even the case. I would only pay it back of it was possibly unsafe to use other means and  the date didn't end early.
You have all the right to disagree, but you are still wrong :)

A gentleman always makes sure the lady gets home safe, and reimburse her for the ride there.
That said, 200 UAH for Taxi for a local, then she must have traveled faaar.. so I don't say you misjudged her, just that your mindset is STILL wrong about this.
Quote


Even the second girl that blew me off early in Nikolaev said she would get the tram back. So she was at least genuine.

It's really a genuine girl I am looking for. She was eyeing me a little from the corner of her eye but J don't think it was genuine. I could be wrong but I would rather move on than spend time with a woman where I get 'told' to buy her this of thatand manipulated with reasons why. I've had that before so don't need it again.
So by genuine girl, you mean "extremely careful with money" - is that how you measure a girl to see that she is genuine?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 02:06:11 PM
I don't have as much exp as you trench, but I would compare it to a date in the US/UK. Food and Drinks are cheaper there. Average date here in the US is $50-$70 if you go somewhere nice.

As you get close to that marker on a first date I would call it off. All in she probably only costed you $20 probably?

I wouldn't have called it just yet, I understand your apprehension, I did a background check on the women I was going to visit and that helped a lot with Trust issues, being able to see their social media, employment, etc. Maybe you should do that in the future to help with any trust issues?

I already do that but out here I can't seem to do that stuff as easy, possibly blocked sites or too slow Apartment WI-FI. The one girl I have done it on that I am quite keen on meeting I'm having difficulty getting her out of the stable. I might be able to be we'll see.

The date cost me about £12, it's not a problem for me but it's the character that is more important to me than the cost. I felt it better to press on.

Anyway to be honest at least the last girl (from last year previous to her) was more 'ask' rather than 'tell' even if she was very persistent. This one was too much trying to lead/be dominant for my liking. Plus I never really got the feeling she was that maternity minded though I never got to ask for sure my intuition told me she didn't seem so.

I'm not saying she was a scammer or me fake or horrible or anything just not the more genuine personality I would want.r) was more 'ask' rather than 'tell' even if she was very persistent. This one was to much trying to lead/be dominant for my liking. Plus I never really got the feeling she was that maternity minded though I never got to ask for sure my intuition told me she didn't seem so.

I'm not saying she was a scammer or me fake or horrible or anything just not the more genuine personality I would want.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on June 21, 2018, 02:08:37 PM
I don't have as much exp as you trench, but I would compare it to a date in the US/UK. Food and Drinks are cheaper there. Average date here in the US is $50-$70 if you go somewhere nice.

As you get close to that marker on a first date I would call it off. All in she probably only costed you $20 probably?

I wouldn't have called it just yet, I understand your apprehension, I did a background check on the women I was going to visit and that helped a lot with Trust issues, being able to see their social media, employment, etc. Maybe you should do that in the future to help with any trust issues?

Trenchcoat only has experience of how to fail in this venture! A meal with my wife in Ukraine has never cost more than £20, and that includes after we married when she was choosing two course meals. My wife has always thought that anything costing 350 UAH was a lot of money. I have re-programmed her into thinking that is only "a tenner" in Sterling terms!

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 02:12:15 PM
You have all the right to disagree, but you are still wrong :)

A gentleman always makes sure the lady gets home safe, and reimburse her for the ride there.
That said, 200 UAH for Taxi for a local, then she must have traveled faaar.. so I don't say you misjudged her, just that your mindset is STILL wrong about this. So by genuine girl, you mean "extremely careful with money" - is that how you measure a girl to see that she is genuine?

Exactly ;) on the taxi issue. She tried the 'gentleman' line but I've been suckered in like that before. Once they see they have a hook they will ride it all the way. I don't really care about the being a gentleman routine. I will try to be polite and decent and open the odd door when convenient but that's me done, I'm done with being taken as a mug in fear of not being seen as a gentleman, lol.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 02:20:48 PM
Trenchcoat only has experience of how to fail in this venture! A meal with my wife in Ukraine has never cost more than £20, and that includes after we married when she was choosing two course meals. My wife has always thought that anything costing 350 UAH was a lot of money. I have re-programmed her into thinking that is only "a tenner" in Sterling terms!

You've done yourself a diservice Blighty ;D Danger there would be if you actually ended up causing problems in your relationship, i.e if she started getting more & more materialistic.

Well she would have thought my 410 ghrvina for a bottle of wine & a strawberry shake was a lot of money too :) Now that's more the type of person I need! It seemed a reasonably nice/slightly posh restaurant too.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on June 21, 2018, 02:21:21 PM
Exactly ;) on the taxi issue. She tried the 'gentleman' line but I've been suckered in like that before. Once they see they have a hook they will ride it all the way. I don't really care about the being a gentleman routine. I will try to be polite and decent and open the odd door when convenient but that's me done, I'm done with being taken as a mug in fear of not being seen as a gentleman, lol.

These women are looking for some Old World Charm, and expect that from us Englishmen. I conform to their expectations, but you seem to fail in that area. This is one of the reasons that you are failing in this venture. If you did not want to buy her some fags then you should have refused on health grounds rather then meanness.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on June 21, 2018, 02:25:23 PM
The obsession with money and being taken "advantage of" tells me he will never succeed.  It is not about the money.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on June 21, 2018, 02:30:15 PM
You've done yourself a diservice Blighty ;D Danger there would be if you actually ended up causing problems in your relationship, i.e if she started getting more & more materialistic.

Well she would have thought my 410 ghrvina for a bottle of wine & a strawberry shake was a lot of money too :) Now that's more the type of person I need! It seemed a reasonably nice/slightly posh restaurant too.

Don't worry my wife is only materialistic when it comes to foreign travel, and then she only likes to stay in apartments as hotels are "too expensive". She knows all about my finances and understands the need for us to spend our money wisely.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 02:31:51 PM
The obsession with money and being taken "advantage" tells me he will never succeed.  It is not about the money.

I agree it is not about the money it's but the character, etc. It's also about how money us felt with in a relationship, in which in this case it would have been the wrong way.

I think there is a reason why many local guys have passed over these girls and it's because they are no good. Maybe in an industrial dumpsk city stuck out in the middle of nowhere girls exist who are single because the men have had enough & done themselves in, maybe there.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 02:33:05 PM
Don't worry my wife is only materialistic when it comes to foreign travel, and then she only likes to stay in apartments as hotels are "too expensive". She knows all about my finances and understands the need for us to spend our money wisely.

Now that's what I really need :D
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: LAman on June 21, 2018, 03:38:29 PM
It just set a bad precedent Boe, she got the table reserved so we could return. I've been there with the last girl, once you start getting strung along then there is this, then that, then also that, etc.

The place is full of trams & busses so I reckon her taxi story was bull. I reckon she would have gotten me not just to buy cigarettes (which I can do without as I don't smoke) but doubtless more drink, probably a meal, she was talking nightclub at one point so maybe, etc, etc.

The fact that she was pressing me to pay for cigarettes was a bad sign to me. It starts of small or on thing then rolls on. Not for me.


Why do you bitch about everything? You complain you are not able to get a date, then when you do get a date you complain about spending money...…. again, you want your money's worth( same as one of previous girls)!!!

Anytime you ask a girl on date you pay for her, if she is extravagant so be it, finish the date like you have class and if you are not comfortable or interested don't meet her again.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on June 21, 2018, 05:09:32 PM

Why do you bitch about everything? You complain you are not able to get a date, then when you do get a date you complain about spending money...…. again, you want your money's worth( same as one of previous girls)!!!

Anytime you ask a girl on date you pay for her, if she is extravagant so be it, finish the date like you have class and if you are not comfortable or interested don't meet her again.

Bingo!

Trench if you spent a bit of time with you date you would have a greater insight in the psyche of women in general. For what it is worth cigarettes are quite cheap in Ukraine.

I must say it is disappointing that some seem to be enablers for Trenchcoats boorish behavior.

When I was searching there is only one time that I refused to pay a woman's taxi fare. The short story was she made me twice come to an appointment and than failed to show. The third time she said she was stuck in traffic. I told her never mind and went to meet the woman who became my wife.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on June 21, 2018, 05:46:26 PM
I never really got the feeling she was that maternity minded though I never got to ask for sure my intuition told me she didn't seem so.


Most women aren't going to think about making babies on the first date. :P
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 07:54:14 PM

Why do you bitch about everything? You complain you are not able to get a date, then when you do get a date you complain about spending money...…. again, you want your money's worth( same as one of previous girls)!!!

Anytime you ask a girl on date you pay for her, if she is extravagant so be it, finish the date like you have class and if you are not comfortable or interested don't meet her again.

I'm not bitching I'm just telling it like it is for the benefit of the reader so they are more aware of the pitfalls that can turn up. I think by sharing our experiences on here we can all learn something from each other. I've already learnt so much on here from others that I believe has put me in a much better position going into his venture. I tell others how things went down even though I know I'm going to get bitching from others but I feel it's the right thing to do, this is a forum after all.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 07:59:09 PM
Bingo!

Trench if you spent a bit of time with you date you would have a greater insight in the psyche of women in general. For what it is worth cigarettes are quite cheap in Ukraine.

I must say it is disappointing that some seem to be enablers for Trenchcoats boorish behavior.

When I was searching there is only one time that I refused to pay a woman's taxi fare. The short story was she made me twice come to an appointment and than failed to show. The third time she said she was stuck in traffic. I told her never mind and went to meet the woman who became my wife.


Exactly the woman wasn't right so you moved on & found one that was. Different women are going to have different psyche even I know that ;) I've spent time with women all the way through my lifeet a bit if extra time in with this one wasn't going to help. I even have a sister and went to a mixed boy/girl school so I would like to think I have some idea ;)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Bee Farmer on June 21, 2018, 09:33:29 PM
Quote
Yeah it's strange with the photo's. I decided to go with photos of me with relatively neutral background's, pleasant but generic scenery, grasslands, etc since I wanted the girl to look at me and not lifestyle or an iconic building say the Effifel Tower.

So you are trying to tell the women that you are BORING.  Yep, that's the kind of life they are looking for.  Boring...they'll be lining up to get at you.

Quote
Nothing too boring looking as cycling or too extreme but hopefully something in between without seemingly too staged also, many thanks

What's boring about cycling?  Boring is generic photos.  Girls like seeing pics of you doing an activity...cycling is fine.  Just make sure it is an activity you would be willing to do with the girl in the future.  Going cycling for an afternoon with your wife may be a little out of your budget though.  Heaven forbid you have to buy her a bike.  Maybe you should post pics of you jogging.  Maybe you can afford to buy her some running shoes. 

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I have been to Toastmaster meetings before there is a decided culture. Never would I have considered it a means for the goals the Trenchcoat has/

I've never attended a Toastmasters meeting.  However, from what I have gathered about Trench, he is an introvert.  It is of an immense benefit to introverts if someone gives them an introduction when they are in the first stages of trying to get a date.  Odds are, a Toastmasters member who would be the first to agree to help would be an extrovert...the very personality trait Trench needs to help get him the introduction.  The extroverted Ukrainian basically picks up the girl, (and possibly gets a date) and then hands her over to Trench.  This is what Trench needs.

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Given your ideas about seeking a virgin -- that lines up with TC too  -- maybe you can advise him how to tell when looking at a girl if she is a virgin?

You're as dense as Billy, and can't read either.  It never ceases to amaze me how I have never said that I am seeking a virgin - it is all you guys who claim I am seeking a virgin. (I will say that I believe virginity to be the ideal though, but there is a difference between recognizing that something is an ideal and seeking the ideal.  I will also say that I would prefer a girl who was closer on the spectrum to being a virgin than a tramp.)

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After a bit of chit chat back and forth she then wanted me to buy her some cigarettes because she was out and apparently had taken the taxi. Now I have heard all this bs before and there was no way I was going to fall for it again. It was time to fold, I simply thanked her for coming and told her she was not the right kind of girl for me and after paying the bill left her to finish her drink.

Trench, what do you think women are looking for?  I'll tell you.

Women want a guy who is equal, or higher in socio-economic status, and normally 4-5 years older than her.  (Men go for women equal or lower in socio-economic status.)  Women want to know that you will be able to provide for not only her, but her and her future child.

If you can't afford to buy a girl a pack of smokes, don't go out with a girl who smokes.

What do you offer a girl Trench?  Normally, guys offer the 3 P's.  They Profess (I like/love you), they Provide (buy her smokes), and Protect (put a ring on it).

Have you considered that a pack of smokes and a taxi ride was her selling price?  You never know what she was planning on giving you in return.

Just out of curiosity, how much is this trip costing you?  And you're worried about $2?  Not very good at figuring out what is important, are you?  You're also sending girls the message that you are not very good at managing your money.  (Maybe that's why you're so worried about being cheap...you're wasteful with your money, and then you're forced to live on nothing.)

I would encourage you to watch some of Jordan Peterson's Youtube videos on what girls want, and how to be a guy that girls go for.  Maybe you can learn what you can do better.

Quote
Oh, wow.  I can see how she was using poor Trench.  A pack of cigarettes costs less than a pound, and a fruit drink?  The horrors!  That must have set him back almost 2 pounds!  Yup, those UW don't know their place, ripping him off to that extent.
 

And I bet most Ukrainian guys can afford to buy her a pack of smokes and a juice.
So what exactly does Trench offer that local guys don't?

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The place is full of trams & busses so I reckon her taxi story was bull. I reckon she would have gotten me not just to buy cigarettes (which I can do without as I don't smoke) but doubtless more drink, probably a meal, she was talking nightclub at one point so maybe, etc, etc.

The fact that she was pressing me to pay for cigarettes was a bad sign to me. It starts of small or on thing then rolls on. Not for me.

What's not for you, marriage or a relationship with a girl?  Because women expect a man to be able to provide for her.  If you can't afford to provide her petty things now, how will you be able to provide for both her and her future child?

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It's not the type of personality I want.

Then you better turn gay, because that's the female personality.  A woman will expect you to be able to provide for her.  (Girls will try to test you, to see what your limits are on spending.  Are you responsible or foolish?  A responsible man spends some money on her, but doesn't go overboard.  If you don't have the balls to be able to do that, then you are both stingy and a fool.)

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She didn't exactly seem distraught over how to get back either.

She may have walked or taken the bus instead of a taxi.  She had too much pride to lower herself to beg for taxi fare.

If any other girls find out what you did, you can pretty much consider yourself to have blown your chances with every girl in that town.  Word gets around.

Your reputation for how you treat girls should be worth far more than a few bucks for her taxi fare.

If you won't pay the taxi fare, then you deserve to be dating the fat feminist hogs in your apartment building in the UK.

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She also showed me some photos of expensive shoes & jewellery while she was on holiday. Another not good sign for me. To be honest I sensed her as perhaps less genuine than the last girl.

You do realize that girls will starve themselves and spend food money to buy clothes that look nice, right?

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It’s a lost cause. He will never have enough trust to be successful.

That's why I suggested getting some babushkas to help him find a girl.  He can trust the babushkas not to be trying to scam him out of money, and hopefully he can trust them to pick a good girl.  Then again, I also said he had to convince them that he was a decent guy, which will be a heck of a task in and of itself for him.

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The date cost me about £12, it's not a problem for me but it's the character that is more important to me than the cost. I felt it better to press on.

How much lower in the socio-economic status are you wanting to find?  Sub-Saharan Africa where the average IQ is 70 (borderline mentally retarded, equivalent to about a normal 9 or 10 year old) and they are too stupid to know how to scam you beyond what a 9 or 10 year old could come up with?

I used to live beside an eye doctor.  The last time I talked to him, he was getting ready to go on a missions trip to Malawi with a church group of doctors.  Yeah, Malawi.  Average IQ about 69.  9% or 10% AIDS infestation.  Trump would call it a sh*thole country.  I bet there are some fine girls there who would love you long time.

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I will try to be polite and decent and open the odd door when convenient but that's me done, I'm done with being taken as a mug in fear of not being seen as a gentleman, lol.

Then that's your true personality.  If you are not willing to hold open a door for a lady, even when it's not convenient, then you don't respect women, and you don't respect yourself.
Why are you so worried about how they see you, instead of worrying about who you are?

I'm no Don Juan, but I hold the door open for pretty girls.  I also hold the door open for fat cows, married women, old ladies, even little schoolgirls...women I have no intention of ever having a relationship with.  If my hands are full, I hold the door open with my foot.  Why?  Because they are women, and that's just how I am.

Try holding doors open for women because you want to do something nice for them, rather than worrying about whether you are seen as a gentleman or not.

Some of the worst people I know act nice not because they desire to be nice, but because they are worried about what other people will think of them.  Don't be that person.

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I agree it is not about the money it's but the character, etc. It's also about how money us felt with in a relationship, in which in this case it would have been the wrong way.

Then just set an allowance limit in your head that you are willing to blow, and then don't spend more money on her past her allowance.  If it's $50 or $100 a week, if you are dating a girl, she will quickly decide if you can offer her the lifestyle she is looking for.  If she's just after money, she will give you the boot, and if she's a good girl, she will learn to live within the money you will allow her to spend.

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I think there is a reason why many local guys have passed over these girls and it's because they are no good.

Are you forgetting that women choose too? Girls can be picky too.  (You actually want a picky girl, as long as she picks you.  A girl who is not picky has very low standards.)

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I even have a sister and went to a mixed boy/girl school so I would like to think I have some idea

So how come you have never had your sister introduce you to any decent local girls?  Or have her give you advice on how to be more desirable to women?  Sisters will usually help a brother out if you ask...
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 21, 2018, 09:43:12 PM


Trench, what do you think women are looking for?  I'll tell you.

Women want a guy who is equal, or higher in socio-economic status, and normally 4-5 years older than her.  (Men go for women equal or lower in socio-economic status.)  Women want to know that you will be able to provide for not only her, but her and her future child.




Hmm, On what do you base such an assertion ?  I have been married twice - in the first case, your assertion might be correct - not the second .. 

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Bee Farmer on June 21, 2018, 10:06:14 PM
There's actually been a lot of psychological research on this and the dominance heirarchy.

It is very unusual for a woman to marry a guy who earns much less than she does, or who is much younger than her, or who comes from a lower social class.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 21, 2018, 10:52:24 PM
Beefarmer are you looking for a FSW? (profile status). I thought you were already married to one?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on June 22, 2018, 12:12:06 AM

Why do you bitch about everything? You complain you are not able to get a date, then when you do get a date you complain about spending money...…. again, you want your money's worth( same as one of previous girls)!!!

Anytime you ask a girl on date you pay for her, if she is extravagant so be it, finish the date like you have class and if you are not comfortable or interested don't meet her again.


He will never understand, because he doesn't respect women, and likely never will.  His mentality ensures he will never have a happy relationship.  Look at him justifying acting like a boor on his most recent outing.  It's also at the root of why he is obsessed with cost and "being taken advantage of". 
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on June 22, 2018, 12:29:46 AM

He will never understand, because he doesn't respect women, and likely never will.  His mentality ensures he will never have a happy relationship.  Look at him justifying acting like a boor on his most recent outing.  It's also at the root of why he is obsessed with cost and "being taken advantage of".

While most of the members recognize the shortcomings of Trenchcoat he is intent on blaming other factors (usually the women) for his failings. The painful reality he can not hear those posting of his mistakes hence the justification. He fails to understand that his character and assumptions dooms this endeavour for him.

This is the stuff of some epic Russian novel on the 19th century.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on June 22, 2018, 02:11:41 AM
Bingo!

Trench if you spent a bit of time with you date you would have a greater insight in the psyche of women in general. For what it is worth cigarettes are quite cheap in Ukraine.

I must say it is disappointing that some seem to be enablers for Trenchcoats boorish behavior.

When I was searching there is only one time that I refused to pay a woman's taxi fare. The short story was she made me twice come to an appointment and than failed to show. The third time she said she was stuck in traffic. I told her never mind and went to meet the woman who became my wife.


OK I am not a native English speaker and maybe I can't make out what I read anymore, but where do you see anyone agreeing with Trench in this matter? 

He is the typical example on how NOT to do things, so by setting an example like that, he is doing a very good job, unfortunate for all other guys on this quest, I think he will put a lot of ladies off and they will simply give up after meeting him.  (IF THAT is what a foreign man is like, I want nothing to do with them)

He has been told a 100 times, FSU women are not gentle creatures, they are blunt, direct and cut's to the chase quite quick. He takes this as them being "to dominating", he is SO in the wrong turf to find a woman.

This along with the fantasies on his "pink cloud" with fireworks and instant chemistry.. he is doomed to fail no matter what way he uses to meet them.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 22, 2018, 03:05:48 AM
Blunt & direct I'm happy enough with but I'm not going to meekly follow along with what a girl wants to get. I'm not going to be instructed 'we will go now and you will buy me cigarettes from the shop then we will come back to restaurant'.

It's no bad thing I think me seeing how different Ukrainian women are, it gives me more of an idea of where to place them in the great scheme of things.

I'm not particularly bothered with it messing it up for some other guy, it's me I have to think about. I don't see that being a walkover helps anyway, that's not the image we want to spread. Maybe she might rethink her attitude if she has any sense after last night.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 22, 2018, 03:11:44 AM
Trench just cannot see the utter FOLLY of effectively blind dating - when he could have filtered down ladies more suitable ...

I'm left with the conclusion Trench couldn't find any.

As we keep telling you - FSUW aren't doormat wives - you're looking in the wrong place ... 
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on June 22, 2018, 03:27:55 AM
Trench just cannot see the utter FOLLY of effectively blind dating - when he could have filtered down ladies more suitable ...

I'm left with the conclusion Trench couldn't find any.

Disagree ... TC has failed to carry out proper market research into this venture, and he shows no signs of undertaking data analysis into the available 'talent'. In other words he will continue to be unsuccessful without re-thinking his strategy.

As we keep telling you - FSUW aren't doormat wives - you're looking in the wrong place ... 

No where will he find one of those!
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 22, 2018, 03:54:58 AM
Trench just cannot see the utter FOLLY of effectively blind dating - when he could have filtered down ladies more suitable ...

I'm left with the conclusion Trench couldn't find any.

As we keep telling you - FSUW aren't doormat wives - you're looking in the wrong place ...

Yes admittedly you were correct on that Mobe. All of this could have been done at home. It's not a complete waste as far as experience goes but the idea of only calling them up upon arrival is not a good one. It's fine as a fall back option but even then the it seems best to write to the girl as one would at home.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 22, 2018, 03:57:29 AM
Also does anyone know of any decent nightclubs in Lviv near the old town centre. The only ones I can see online seem to be the sit down & eat type.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on June 22, 2018, 11:51:46 AM
So I asked our nephew today about the Ukrainian etiquette of asking a woman for a drink.  Until he married about a year ago, he was extremely successful with women.

He said that yes, if he had the money, he would buy a date cigarettes.  This is what 98% of UM would do if they asked a woman out.  If she asked for money for a taxi, again, he said if he had the money, he would give it to her, although a good UM usually would escort the woman home.  If he didn't have the money, he would tell her he didn't have the money, so they could take the tram. 
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 22, 2018, 01:20:19 PM
So I asked our nephew today about the Ukrainian etiquette of asking a woman for a drink.  Until he married about a year ago, he was extremely successful with women.

He said that yes, if he had the money, he would buy a date cigarettes.  This is what 98% of UM would do if they asked a woman out.  If she asked for money for a taxi, again, he said if he had the money, he would give it to her, although a good UM usually would escort the woman home.  If he didn't have the money, he would tell her he didn't have the money, so they could take the tram.

I guess I get a bit tired of all this, I'm supposed to take this and that, be told this & that by a FSW. I pay for drinks & food if we decide to contimue along with any reasonable entertainment. If I know that a girl is telling porkies though to extract more oney out of me then for me that is not good sign. We know it is not 200 UAH for the taxi since I as a foreigner only paid 100 UAH, if she used apps or phoned for a local taxi it would have been even less. So would your Nephew sit back whie a girl told him all sorts of inflated prices for taxi's for him to cover. Remember she would no doubt want to be reimbursed the 200 UAH even though she probably took the tram or more likely just waked around the corner!
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boomstick77 on June 22, 2018, 01:40:57 PM
Let me boost your confidence man because I wrecked it in Ukraine. Doing half the dumb stuff I do...hahahaha. How can you fail. impossible. I wouldn’t count out any plan msmoby if executed with confidence. If I wrote up a trip report of my first visit to Ukraine. It would look as if it had disaster written all over it. Mind you I’m a pretty decent looking guy so I can get away with far more stuff. Plus my arrogance and cockiness seem to always win. Let me see..ok..two days into my visit my and my now wife and I were watching M1 getting ready to go out to get lit up. I thought let’s check this chicks temperament. So I picked my nose and wiped in her mouth. Was she mad..yes..did I laugh. Absolutely. I was kind of enough though to offer her my toothbrush and far superior toothpaste compared to that blend-a-med garbage brand they have. 10 minutes later she forgot all about it. Two weeks later I was up to no good again as we visited Lviv and I thought..pillow fight time..so it was going well and I pinned her down..plugged her nose and spit in her mouth..then I ran and hid in the bathroom. Was she mad..sure..but by then I had completely blown her heart away with my ways so I could literally get away with anything. Now this is just a small sample of how I act. I’m 40 and it looks incredibly immature and how can anyone succeed with such foolish things they do . It’s because when you have a don’t give a sh*t personality it seems to be a winning combination no matter what side of the world your on. Now this was my first visit. But I could have achieved the same results with any girl I picked to go and see. Yes..they didn’t pick me. I picked them. You guys think you have to have high level dating skills over there. It’s very simple but maybe it’s because I’m used to North American women where you need to know some heavy psychology over here. Being a douche lord with a heart of gold is an attractive trait. I love it.

If you think this trench lad is going to fail with his plan. Take a good look at mine and explain how success was achieved. But it’s like people say..it’s just the girls I meet..I must be incredibly lucky to get away with a lot of the stuff I do. You guys try and formulate strategies and plans of just getting a girl to be interested in yas and I go on like this and never had no worry at all...success was guaranteed always. It’s just the way things are. But judging from the picture below I’ve brought my little Ukrainian honey out of her primitive and reserved self. This being serious stuff is so overrated. It’s funny how women are always attracted to this sort of personality be it cave man mentality.

Sure nobody would go to the FSU with my style and the way I played the game over there. Everyone has their own flavor and this sort of post might make some upset as they are great guys and do everything to meet their future misses and success hasn’t quite been achieved. yet how does some fool like him can go over and do this sort of stuff and have it easy..well..look at my avatar. It’s mindset..you think your the best you truly are.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 22, 2018, 01:45:33 PM
Well as lovely as Lviv is I have to admit the place is starting to feel like a bit of a tourist trap now a bit like Krakow but with mostly Ukrainians instead of the US crowd. Find it can spoil it a bit as it turns these historic old towns into a bit of a historic theme park. A little touristy is fine but unfortunately a lot of places can end up too touristy.

Been chatting to about three girls online, some intresting info with one. I think though it is unlikely that any will pony up for a meet, we'll see though. Not too bothered now as not long left here and I thin this strategy didn't work out well for me, so time to try another route!
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 22, 2018, 01:59:35 PM
Let me boost your confidence man because I wrecked it in Ukraine. Doing half the dumb stuff I do...hahahaha. How can you fail. impossible. I wouldn’t count out any plan msmoby if executed with confidence. If I wrote up a trip report of my first visit to Ukraine. It would look as if it had disaster written all over it. Mind you I’m a pretty decent looking guy so I can get away with far more stuff. Plus my arrogance and cockiness seem to always win. Let me see..ok..two days into my visit my and my now wife and I were watching M1 getting ready to go out to get lit up. I thought let’s check this chicks temperament. So I picked my nose and wiped in her mouth. Was she mad..yes..did I laugh. Absolutely. I was kind of enough though to offer her my toothbrush and far superior toothpaste compared to that blend-a-med garbage brand they have. 10 minutes later she forgot all about it. Two weeks later I was up to no good again as we visited Lviv and I thought..pillow fight time..so it was going well and I pinned her down..plugged her nose and spit in her mouth..then I ran and hid in the bathroom. Was she mad..sure..but by then I had completely blown her heart away with my ways so I could literally get away with anything. Now this is just a small sample of how I act. I’m 40 and it looks incredibly immature and how can anyone succeed with such foolish things they do . It’s because when you have a don’t give a sh*t personality it seems to be a winning combination no matter what side of the world your on. Now this was my first visit. But I could have achieved the same results with any girl I picked to go and see. Yes..they didn’t pick me. I picked them. You guys think you have to have high level dating skills over there. It’s very simple but maybe it’s because I’m used to North American women where you need to know some heavy psychology over here. Being a douche lord with a heart of gold is an attractive trait. I love it.

Well I'm sure if your Mr Personality it plays well with many a girl and many a problem a girl has is bypassed. We don't all get born with that so we can't all play that card nor would I want to try and be someone I'm not. Progress is happening, will I ever hit the bullseye or get a situation I could work with I don't know. I can only be me an will just have to go about this endevour as best I can whether I suceed or fail.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 22, 2018, 02:29:59 PM


If you think this trench lad is going to fail with his plan.

He has failed - TWICE - already ... he just doesn't want to listen
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boomstick77 on June 22, 2018, 03:22:40 PM
Garbage site we got here. Can’t upload photos,.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on June 22, 2018, 03:23:47 PM
Lots of posters upload photos.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boomstick77 on June 22, 2018, 03:24:11 PM
I’m on an iPad which everyone owns these days..upgrade you scum bags
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boomstick77 on June 22, 2018, 03:25:16 PM
I must have broke the button from being so handsome
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boomstick77 on June 22, 2018, 03:36:14 PM
I gotta admit. Native American man getting the white wonan with ease..always,
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 22, 2018, 07:31:54 PM
'Everyone' doesn't own an IPad ( triumph of marketing over price logic ) and doesn't post when drunk ;)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 22, 2018, 08:17:33 PM
He has failed - TWICE - already ... he just doesn't want to listen

I'm sorry am I supposed to have instant success at this first time out?

I think most members here did not have instant success first time out. Nightwish didn't, JayH didn't, 2tallbill didn't, etc, etc.

Different people say different things on here. I can't follow all of them at once. Some one for example said I can trump keyboard Romeo's by coming out here and calling up girls out here as many will turn up if you are in town.

Turns out it is not necessarily as easy as that, it's got to be done a specific way and even then there may not be the number of girls you want. Also that it may work better in a big city like Moscow or a hiring industrial dumpsk where the women have little exciting stuff to do. Also that having apparently photos that are boring do not help. That and it may be a better fall back strategy.

Still I've learnt stuff from all of this that may be of future use to me.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 22, 2018, 08:22:32 PM
I'm sorry am I supposed to have instant success at this first time out?

Things is you aren't 'sorry' - you just think you know better ...

It is SO clear why you are failing - your attitude
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 22, 2018, 08:25:13 PM
'Everyone' doesn't own an IPad ( triumph of marketing over price logic ) and doesn't post when drunk ;)

I also feel the same way about Apple products, I don't own any. I bought a Samsung S3 Tablet in Moscow in the GUM Samsung store opposite the Kremlin last year. It is very nice and had a keyboard with both English & Russian letters. In all cost me not far of 1k, I have it with me now but to be honest us a bit if a liability to carry on these sorts of trips. So may get something cheaper for the less extensive stays out here.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 22, 2018, 08:34:00 PM
Things is you aren't 'sorry' - you just think you know better ...

It is SO clear why you are failing - your attitude

Only on matters of Brexit do I think I know better ;D . No I don't think I know better I just merely put how I see matters at any given point in time. Most of the time it is to try & get my head around this stuff so I can have a better understanding of the task at hand.

Thing is you can tell some one plenty of stuff but until they experience a certain amount themselves and try different stuff out and get feedback it means very little.

Bounder for instance said Tinder brings up good results in the FSU. Well in Moscow it probably doesn't and in other places it may do. In a smaller tourist city like Lviv where there are less people and they have other things to do I find not so.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 22, 2018, 08:36:33 PM
Get yourself a Roku stick  and a bluetooth keyboard

Link them to a decent phone.. Galaxy S8+ is better value than a 9 or Apple x

Then use the HDMI slot on the rooms TV screen -  plug in your Roku and use the TV screen and your phone becomes the computer - the TV the monitor

Don't get why folks carry a big screen around with travelling by air
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 22, 2018, 08:38:16 PM
Only on matters of Brexit do I think I know better ;D

Save your daftness on this for the appropriate thread


Bounder for instance said Tinder brings up good results in the FSU.

Hmm...

I hope he'll post an update on this
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Bee Farmer on June 22, 2018, 08:43:13 PM
Beefarmer are you looking for a FSW? (profile status). I thought you were already married to one?

I'm not sure what gave you that idea.  I've never been married.

I recognize there are distinct benefits of being married, if you find the right girl.  If you find the right one, I don't think there is anything better on earth.  If you find the wrong one, I don't think there is anything worse.  Unfortunately, there are a lot more wrong ones than right ones.

I'm not specifically looking for a FSUW.  I went out with a local girl a few times last summer.  She wasn't a FSUW.
My baseline criteria for even thinking about going out with a girl is never married, no children, physically fit, and Caucasian.  At my age, that filters out the vast majority of local women, so I'm not opposed to looking at options in other countries.

The older I get, the option of just staying single seems more and more attractive.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 22, 2018, 08:51:42 PM
I'm not sure what gave you that idea.  I've never been married.

I recognize there are distinct benefits of being married, if you find the right girl.  If you find the right one, I don't think there is anything better on earth.  If you find the wrong one, I don't think there is anything worse.  Unfortunately, there are a lot more wrong ones than right ones.

I'm not specifically looking for a FSUW.  I went out with a local girl a few times last summer.  She wasn't a FSUW.
My baseline criteria for even thinking about going out with a girl is never married, no children, physically fit, and Caucasian.  At my age, that filters out the vast majority of local women, so I'm not opposed to looking at options in other countries.

The older I get, the option of just staying single seems more and more attractive.

Sorry man, think I got you mixed up with Old Father Time. Think you both gavecne help on my  first trip report thread in Kiev when I was a little wound up because the girl was seemingly interested in me to some extent but there was no affection.

I know what you mean with the older you get the more it seems easier to stay single, it's just less bother. How old are you? I'm 40 and have brother & sister as well as nieces & nephew. It would be nice to have girl & some kids but some girls can be so much problem that it could be an ordeal. On the other hand sometimes I am a bit all on my own too much I think so it is not an easy one.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on June 22, 2018, 09:08:25 PM
I gotta admit. Native American man getting the white wonan with ease..always,

Getting some payback?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Bee Farmer on June 22, 2018, 09:16:42 PM
I'm in my early 40's.

Yes, I believe FT is married...but didn't he marry a girl from South America?


Yes, a person does get set in their ways the older they are.  You do have to give up some of your independence when you have a committed relationship.  You have to compromise on things, and you can't always be so rigid.  You have to care about what is important to the other person too. 

They say that the older you get the pickier you are, and the less desirable you become.  There's a lot of truth in that.  Think about that for a long time.  What do you really offer to someone else?  Don't be the person who is looking for more than they offer.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 23, 2018, 12:07:29 AM
He has been told a 100 times, FSU women are not gentle creatures, they are blunt, direct and cut's to the chase quite quick. He takes this as them being "to dominating", he is SO in the wrong turf to find a woman.

This I am presently turning over in my mind and runs into what Beefarmer is saying a bit. The girl the other night I would say was more dominant than the last girl (last year). She made her seem more reasonable, lol and I never thought I would be saying that. Thing is while I may not judge myself as a full on Alpha Male I would not judge myself as the meekest Beta Male. The girl the other night went full on into 'driving the bus' as 2tallbill would put it and she was not up for debate on it. Now I would not judge myself as the sort of guy that enjoy s being instructed to do everything blow by blow, this is how it would have gone with this woman had I stuck around. I was not wishing to get into an argument with her either about the cigarettes. I could have called her out over the overly expensive taxi but then I think thungs would have gone downhill anyway.

The last girl I was with well in bed apart from when we were having sex she would wear her nightdress and underwear. Wearing a bra to bed I could understand as concern over keeping her boobs nice and perky :D was apparently the issue. However for me I had to lay in bed naked stripped of all bed clothes. For me this was a strange role reversal, I generally thought that it should be the other way around not that I minded so much :)

So I don't know it kind of like role reversal with a lot of these women but without a kind of feminist vibe.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 23, 2018, 12:14:06 AM

Yes, a person does get set in their ways the older they are.  You do have to give up some of your independence when you have a committed relationship.  You have to compromise on things, and you can't always be so rigid.  You have to care about what is important to the other person too. 

They say that the older you get the pickier you are, and the less desirable you become.  There's a lot of truth in that.  Think about that for a long time.  What do you really offer to someone else?  Don't be the person who is looking for more than they offer.

When you get even older you'll realise that being alone when older is hardly desirable either ?    SC is very tidy - to the point of obsession and I'm not messy - just not to her std .... This causes friction ..  Wise people learn to live with their difference ..

I say wise - as I've never lived with someone longer than six years ....   

I respect those that can see through difficult times ..
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on June 23, 2018, 01:16:00 AM
I'm sorry am I supposed to have instant success at this first time out?

I think most members here did not have instant success first time out. Nightwish didn't, JayH didn't, 2tallbill didn't, etc, etc.

Different people say different things on here. I can't follow all of them at once. Some one for example said I can trump keyboard Romeo's by coming out here and calling up girls out here as many will turn up if you are in town.

Turns out it is not necessarily as easy as that, it's got to be done a specific way and even then there may not be the number of girls you want. Also that it may work better in a big city like Moscow or a hiring industrial dumpsk where the women have little exciting stuff to do. Also that having apparently photos that are boring do not help. That and it may be a better fall back strategy.

Still I've learnt stuff from all of this that may be of future use to me.

Trenchcoat, There is no one way to prosecute this search successfully. But there are 100's of ways to fcuk it up.

Many here have pointed out the fallacy of your assumptions and yet you have persisted. While persistence is a good thing not using common sense and advice well given is a bad thing.

You remind me of; the young turtle who climbs a tree, out on a limb he launches himself trying to fly. Plunk to the ground. The mother bird says to the father, perhaps we should tell our son again he is adopted.

While I wish you good luck, perhaps some soul searching to your goals and assumptions would be good thing. I would get a some white paper and pencils make note of what others have written and list your failures. Compare and study.

All the keys that you need are here on RWD in different posts.

BdHvA
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 23, 2018, 01:28:04 AM


The last girl I was with well in bed apart from when we were having sex she would wear her nightdress and underwear. Wearing a bra to bed I could understand as concern over keeping her boobs nice and perky :D was apparently the issue. However for me I had to lay in bed naked stripped of all bed clothes. For me this was a strange role reversal, I generally thought that it should be the other way around not that I minded so much :)

So I don't know it kind of like role reversal with a lot of these women but without a kind of feminist vibe.

Had to read this a few times and STILL not sure what Trench is trying to share - other than he says he slept with a lass in the biblical sense ... ?!

Trench, did she make you wear your glasses ? ;)





Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on June 23, 2018, 01:39:02 AM
The girl the other night went full on into 'driving the bus' ...

Perhaps you came across to her as being like a 'broken arm' and so decided to take the lead in your meeting. You ramble on at times here, and so perhaps you are like that in person. A lot of women like to be proactive in relationship building, which you may be mis-interpreting as 'driving the bus'. My wife was certainly proactive in our dating phase, but I always felt comfortable with this approach. Perhaps you are just really seeking a bimbo?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on June 23, 2018, 01:46:54 AM
Trench, did she make you wear your glasses ? ;)

No, just his cloth cap! )))
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on June 23, 2018, 01:52:54 AM
I'm sorry am I supposed to have instant success at this first time out?

I think most members here did not have instant success first time out. Nightwish didn't, JayH didn't, 2tallbill didn't, etc, etc.



Still I've learnt stuff from all of this that may be of future use to me.

You have no idea about me--one way or another . It is your very stupid  interpretations that do not help you. You are incapable of understanding information given on the forum ( or even from the total idiot Roosh)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 23, 2018, 06:23:54 AM
You have no idea about me--one way or another . It is your very stupid  interpretations that do not help you. You are incapable of understanding information given on the forum ( or even from the total idiot Roosh)

Actually it says in your profile status that you have been looking more than 5 years and have done more than 10 trips so quite clearly you did not have instant success. I don't really know why you get so aggressive over what is a relatively simple matter and of no real consequence. Have you considered some counselling to calm yourself down and little bit.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on June 23, 2018, 08:06:14 AM
I guess I get a bit tired of all this, I'm supposed to take this and that, be told this & that by a FSW. I pay for drinks & food if we decide to contimue along with any reasonable entertainment. If I know that a girl is telling porkies though to extract more oney out of me then for me that is not good sign. We know it is not 200 UAH for the taxi since I as a foreigner only paid 100 UAH, if she used apps or phoned for a local taxi it would have been even less. So would your Nephew sit back whie a girl told him all sorts of inflated prices for taxi's for him to cover. Remember she would no doubt want to be reimbursed the 200 UAH even though she probably took the tram or more likely just waked around the corner!

It wouldn't happen to my nephew because, unlike you, he actually respects and likes women.  Women can sense your attitude. Plus, there and back, 200 UAH is possible, depending on where a woman lives.

You're a misogynist who wants women to be powerless and to act in some fictional way you imagine they did, in some fictional time before feminism.  Then, when you go to a society where women largely do not have the rights women in Western nations do, and act in accordance with the norms of their society, you do nothing but complain about those societal attitudes and behaviours.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on June 23, 2018, 07:06:46 PM
Actually it says in your profile status that you have been looking more than 5 years and have done more than 10 trips so quite clearly you did not have instant success. I don't really know why you get so aggressive over what is a relatively simple matter and of no real consequence. Have you considered some counselling to calm yourself down and little bit.

You never learn do you? The info there has been explained many times by various people to you --yet again you illogically attempt to make it add up to say something it does not say.

EG--your own  indicates  a spouse -- at no time have you even been close to having a Ukrainian spouse. You have not even been in a relationship ! So why have you indicated that  is the case?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Bee Farmer on June 23, 2018, 07:32:32 PM
Quote
So I don't know it kind of like role reversal with a lot of these women but without a kind of feminist vibe.

It's not the women, Trench.  It's you. In psychology, you are high in the trait Agreeableness.  You don't have the balls to stand up for yourself.  (Which is probably why you complain about money, because you can't negotiate for higher pay.)  People who are high in Agreeableness often end up resentful because they just go along with whatever the other person wants and they end up feeling walked all over and taken advantage of.

People high in Agreeableness often end up needing professional psychological help.

Quote
When you get even older you'll realise that being alone when older is hardly desirable either ?

It depends on the person.  Some people are introverted, and enjoy being alone.

The alternatives can be far worse.

Quote
SC is very tidy - to the point of obsession and I'm not messy - just not to her std .... This causes friction ..

She also has a high sensitivity to disgusting things too.  And is politically conservative.  And has a good work ethic...

Quote
as I've never lived with someone longer than six years ....

You do realize what the least common denominator is, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWklW1UnpX4

Someone who stays single also ends up having continuity of narrative for their life, and their life can have structure.  People with a string of relationships have a fragmented life story.

It's commonly touted that people who remain married their whole life live longer than people who are divorced.  However, there is another group of people who live even longer than married people...people who never married and were single their whole life.

Quote
Had to read this a few times and STILL not sure what Trench is trying to share -

Trench is trying to say that he went along with whatever the girl suggested, and didn't have the balls to sleep in whatever he wanted. (or tell the girl what he liked her wearing to bed.)  He feels that he has to do whatever a girl suggests...which has led to him being used in the past, or having to do things he doesn't want to do.  He is resentful and upset because he can't find a girl who doesn't suggest things to him...he wants to find a girl who will submit to whatever he wants, even though he probably doesn't even know what he wants.  (Highly agreeable people often don't know what they want, because they are focused on whatever everyone else around them wants.)

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on June 23, 2018, 07:58:41 PM

Interesting read in this thread. Men who's been single forever giving advice to men who's been single forever. Don't tell Trench how to do it. Show him how it's done.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 23, 2018, 11:22:11 PM
Interesting read in this thread. Men who's been single forever giving advice to men who's been single forever. Don't tell Trench how to do it. Show him how it's done.

Actually, BillyB

Some people choose to be single - for varying reasons ...   it is as interesting to read Bee Farmer's perspective as Trench's or those with serial relationships like me ...or you .... and those who manage to stay together - for whom I have the most respect
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on June 24, 2018, 07:31:06 AM
Some people choose to be single


After a few decades of being lonely, that's what they convince themselves of doing.

for varying reasons ... 


Some of the reasons aren't by choice. Getting rejected isn't a choice.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 24, 2018, 10:50:56 AM
After a few decades of being lonely, that's what they convince themselves of doing.

More silly BillyB ..

I know a lady made that decision in her twenties and she was hot and not gay

Carry on with your failed psychology
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on June 24, 2018, 11:25:36 AM
I know a lady made that decision in her twenties and she was hot and not gay


And she was suffering from lack of attention from the opposite sex like our boys here? There are those who are getting rejected and there are those who are doing the rejecting. Tell me how you lumped that girl in the same category as our boys.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 24, 2018, 01:11:02 PM
And she was suffering from lack of attention from the opposite sex like our boys here?

No.... another BillyB fail
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on June 24, 2018, 05:44:13 PM
As I recall this thread is about Trenchcoat and his meeting women in L'viv and Krakow.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 25, 2018, 01:03:53 AM
As I recall this thread is about Trenchcoat and his meeting women in L'viv and Krakow.

Yeah, others hijacking my thread for once, lol ;D
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 25, 2018, 01:07:52 AM
Well met another girl the other day, went better than the first, though I made some mistakes I'll run through a bit later with you all. She was a lot more moderate in her personality though so that was much better at least :)

The taxi apps, Uber & Uklon are a godsend out here. Finally I can get taxi's at the same rate as the locals :D
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on June 25, 2018, 07:58:27 AM
I made some mistakes I'll run through a bit later with you all. She was a lot more moderate in her personality though so that was much better at least :)


Let us know what her mistakes were too. What about her that you didn't like? When you're dating these women your mind can't always be about how to perform on the date. You need to evaluate the person in front of you to make sure she's worth dating again.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 26, 2018, 04:15:36 AM
Let us know what her mistakes were too. What about her that you didn't like? When you're dating these women your mind can't always be about how to perform on the date. You need to evaluate the person in front of you to make sure she's worth dating again.

Too true, the first meet girl I met was pretty enough and she was checking me out every so often out the the corner of her eye. I couldn't really be sure whether this was genuine eyeing up or fake. Either way, I didn't really get the feeling that she was the right girl for me in terms of looks and complimenting each other and by that I mean aside from the cigarette, etc issue that was just confirming to me that she was not right for me I think.

The second meet girl was closer in terms of complimenting me in terms of her personality and looks, she was in her mid thirties though still looked pretty attractive, blonde hair, normal build. We started of with a drink each, she was looking me in the eyes directly for a fair few moments before breaking of eye contact, she did this quite a lot and seemed to be attracted to me. We had a drink each and things seemed to be going well, so then I decided to move to food, so we both had a nice salad each. Signs so far were good, she seemed attracted to me, she had moderate behaviour and we seemed to be getting on/chatting well.

However, during the meal things went south a fair bit, conversation strayed from one thing to another and somehow the topic of dating came up, this was fine until I started talking about being in Lviv for dating - her demeanour changed and I could see that she was unhappy, even pissed off with my talk on it. I did not talk a lot or in depth at all merely skimming over but the mere talk of such seemed to have be very much a negative for her. I don't know why becuase she was the only girl that really replied to my speil outlining why I was in Lviv - so that I could see a girl how she is. Perhaps she thought I had just sent that to her and that I would not be seeing any other women there, must off I guess. We had not really discussed anything prior to meet other than meeting up and earlier on during our drinks I discussed how I was in Lviv for tourism (which it kind of had mostly become). I tried to smooth it over a little seeing this but it just seemed to prolong her unhappiness so I then quickly moved to another subject. The damage though I think was done & unrepairable, she cheered up on other topics but she had stopped looking into my eyes and I think the attraction was killed off for her.

Another topic that seemed not to play well was talking about our lives growing up, she had started growing up at the tale end of the Soviet Union so it sounded like she had a very poor lifestly eearly on, later on she seems to have gotten on to a better lifestyle and to do more stuff but she never really was well off I think. She apparently had got to do some travelling not far off being comparable to mine I thought anyway, but I think she probably felt a bit envious of me, at one point she seemed to be biting her lip, lol. I can really only tell her lifestyle like it was, to be honest compared to other UK guys my lifestyle/growing up was not all that wealthy but compared to hers it seemed to be even though I have met poorer Ukrainain women.

The only thing that was a positive in the second half shall we call it was that after I had returned from the toilet she seemed to be showing more cleavage :D At the end of the dinner she got to talking about my apartment. I had decided though that although she was entirely bangable (she seemed to have nice big boobs ;D ) It was not what I was there for since I wanted a serious relationship, so I thought it important that I emphasize that to her. If I had gone just to date her for even a weekend then it would probably have happened. However for a meet I wanted to keep it to potentially to start forming a serious relationship rather than a one night stand. Also, it had dawned on me that apart for the potential herpes STI risk of banging a lot of chicks I also had to be careful of my personal security. This date was the night before I was due to travel back and even though we had chatted a lot I still really new nothing about this girl, where she lived etc. So talthough she didn't look the dodgy type, I knew that its not always easy to tell, so there was no way I wanted to risk her dissappearing off with my passport etc in the early hours of the morning while I still slept. So not even remotely wishing to stay stranded in Lviv I thought my best option was to play it safe.

So I walked her to her cab, I offered to pay but she refused to accept. So now I'm back in the UK again :) Since then communication has been a bit patchy so I'm not sure about whether that one will amount to anything, it kind of looked like I had messed it up but we shall see.

Only other thing to note was that her English was basically fluent both speaking & understanding, her grammer seed pretty spot on. She says she was still learning but I think she was more than good enough. She also had a slight North American accent, she put this down to her sister living there (apparently married a guy over there) who she communicated too. I still found this a bit strange that and at the end of the night she let me kiss her on the cheek rather than the other way around, I had always thought in Ukraine it is customary for the girl to kiss the guy on the cheek. So I am hoping that she was really Ukrainain and not a North American girl messing around, lol.     
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 26, 2018, 10:56:58 AM
So just a few little things I learn't from my 'visit many' outing that turned into 'visit few'.

- Moving from 'visit one' to 'visit many' requires a different understand and learning of what is involved, for me this meant discovering what worked best when contacting these women. Generally it seemed to be opening up a basic 'hello' introduction rather than a speil as to why I was there. So in this case the groundwork is better started of at the latest a week before going rather than wasting time when there on the notebook going through the basic ground building work.

-women in general both online and in meeting did not seem to react well to even a brief idea that I was there for dating as I think their mind switched to 'I'm one of a number of women he is dating' which seemed to make them act badly in communication to me after any meeting and with messing about before any meeting the moment they became aware it was not just them I was likely corresponding to.

-Larger cities and possibly more industrial cities might yield more women wishing to meet up since more to chooose from and less to do in the idustrial ones, potentially than in a smallish touristy city by comparison.

-My profile unbeknown to me could have been better as pointed out that women look for the opposite of men wanting more activity/interest photos and less posting on neutral background ones.

-A folder of women I had checked out before going was stuck on my laptop at home so making sure everything is synced & updated before going is vital as some apps & websites did not work for me in my apartment whether it was internat or Russian/Ukrainain gov restrictions who knows but it kind of hampered me a little.

- Lastly, thought there are no set rules I get the general impression that it is easier to decide on women who have messaged you as chances are they are very interested and hopefully for sincere reasons. So in that case would just be a case of weeding out the insincere ones and hopefully my luck could be in. 
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on June 26, 2018, 12:17:03 PM
So just a few little things I learn't from my 'visit many' outing that turned into 'visit few'.

- Moving from 'visit one' to 'visit many' requires a different understand and learning of what is involved, for me this meant discovering what worked best when contacting these women. Generally it seemed to be opening up a basic 'hello' introduction rather than a speil as to why I was there. So in this case the groundwork is better started of at the latest a week before going rather than wasting time when there on the notebook going through the basic ground building work.

-women in general both online and in meeting did not seem to react well to even a brief idea that I was there for dating as I think their mind switched to 'I'm one of a number of women he is dating' which seemed to make them act badly in communication to me after any meeting and with messing about before any meeting the moment they became aware it was not just them I was likely corresponding to.

-Larger cities and possibly more industrial cities might yield more women wishing to meet up since more to chooose from and less to do in the idustrial ones, potentially than in a smallish touristy city by comparison.

-My profile unbeknown to me could have been better as pointed out that women look for the opposite of men wanting more activity/interest photos and less posting on neutral background ones.

-A folder of women I had checked out before going was stuck on my laptop at home so making sure everything is synced & updated before going is vital as some apps & websites did not work for me in my apartment whether it was internat or Russian/Ukrainain gov restrictions who knows but it kind of hampered me a little.

- Lastly, thought there are no set rules I get the general impression that it is easier to decide on women who have messaged you as chances are they are very interested and hopefully for sincere reasons. So in that case would just be a case of weeding out the insincere ones and hopefully my luck could be in.

sooo, you where there over 2 weeks? and you managed to scrape together only 2 dates?  :shock:
and this above is what you concluded after this miserable failure?
I mean if you are on a WM-trip for two weeks and only managed to get 2 dates - that IS a huge failure.

to the highlighted section above I can only say

(http://sayingimages.com/wp-content/uploads/jim-carrey-duh-meme.jpg)

I hate to tell you "I told you so" (not really but trying to be graceful)
but what did I say about you having many lonely nights at your hotel with your plan and approach?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 26, 2018, 03:02:02 PM
sooo, you where there over 2 weeks? and you managed to scrape together only 2 dates?  :shock:
and this above is what you concluded after this miserable failure?
I mean if you are on a WM-trip for two weeks and only managed to get 2 dates - that IS a huge failure.

I hate to tell you "I told you so" (not really but trying to be graceful)
but what did I say about you having many lonely nights at your hotel with your plan and approach?

I wouldn't quite say miserable failure I managed to rummage a couple up and they both seemed to have some attraction to me. Granted it did fall far short of my intention of bringing up more women.

I think I definitely learnt loads from the trip that I'll go into more later. Some stuff happened along the way I have not had a chance to get around putting down on here yet. There was quite a lot to it so haven't had the time so far.

I think the thing is while the above point might be obvious to you Nightwish if you haven't been out there a lot such aa myself it is not necessarily so. I mean people can say this or that and I hear this or that but until you find out  certain amount yourself on how it all works it really taking a dive from various quarters in blind faith. I mean someone on here said you can just call these girls up when there. Well yes you can bit there is a certain way you to go about it to increase your odds. Without going out there and trying though nothing is learned.

To most people not into this type of venture what I did would make practical sense. Telling them they should make a flight to visit one girl wouldn't and telling them to keep of talk of dating while dating a FSW wouldn't make sense either. They are more used to western society and it takes some doing I think to get to know how it works out there.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on June 26, 2018, 04:00:05 PM
I had decided though that although she was entirely bangable (she seemed to have nice big boobs ;D ) It was not what I was there for since I wanted a serious relationship,


It's wonderful you are focused on a woman's mind and heart since that's very important in a serious relationship.

So now I'm back in the UK again :) Since then communication has been a bit patchy so I'm not sure about whether that one will amount to anything, it kind of looked like I had messed it up but we shall see.


If she caught you looking at her boobs too many times, it can mess things up.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on June 26, 2018, 06:26:42 PM
Trenchcoat, I fear some here will not live long enough to read of your eventual success.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Bee Farmer on June 26, 2018, 10:47:59 PM
Quote
I get the general impression that it is easier to decide on women who have messaged you as chances are they are very interested and hopefully for sincere reasons. So in that case would just be a case of weeding out the insincere ones and hopefully my luck could be in. 

Interesting.  I ran across this video and thought it brought up an interesting perspective.  (As a side note, introverted guys usually have much better success with a lady if she initiates some kind of interest first.  The scammers are pretty easy to spot, as they will not ask questions about you.)

Many guys are giving Trench advice based upon the American style of dating, when he is more accustomed to the UK style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GgHhOqUrUw

As another side note, there is something known as the Rule of 5 to determine if someone is truly interested in getting to know you.  Do they ask you 5 questions about yourself while on the date?  If not, they are not interested in getting to know you.  If they just spend their time talking about themselves, there's not much sense in going out with them again. 
You also need to ask them at least 5 questions, and not just admire their big breasts.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 26, 2018, 11:31:13 PM
Well it was my impression that she had deliberately  decided to expose her breasts.

I think roughly 5 questions were asked in a roundabout way during the meet. I think my talk of being there for dating is what did irrepairable damage and it killed of may chances as far as an LTR were concerned. Like I say I think she may have slept with me for a one night stand since she us at that age where she is probably used to local guys wanting that from here so to her would probably be no big deal. Still like I say learnt a fair bit from it all.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 27, 2018, 12:05:17 AM
You THOUGHT she might have been displaying more of her cleavage became exposing her breasts ? ......

Trench the trip was a FAILURE ...  Bearing in mind you are seeking a life partner ( not 'dates' ... )

Piss poor planning ...it's THAT simple

 

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on June 27, 2018, 01:02:05 AM
From your comments I guess you are what women call a 'breast man'. My wife is petite and sometimes says to me "how interesting, that woman over there has plastlc breasts". I understand what she means when glancing at that said area! I have always deliberately avoided looking at breasts (whatever size) as part of the 'dating game', as the woman's brain is more important to me. I have found that women with low-cut dresses on dates often lean forward to ensure that I can look down their cleavage (i.e., at one of their prime assets).Women tend to like men being subtle! Only you were there, and so only know if you could have scored with her.

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on June 27, 2018, 03:03:39 AM
From your comments I guess you are what women call a 'breast man'. My wife is petite and sometimes says to me "how interesting, that woman over there has plastlc breasts". I understand what she means when glancing at that said area! I have always deliberately avoided looking at breasts (whatever size) as part of the 'dating game'

My first ever dating encounter with an RU lady was in Cyprus.... I flew out there to see her

I told her to meet me at the Mediterranean Hotel - that I'd sit in a sunken vestibule area and she could 'check me out' - as I'd be reading a book..This was before Skype and other v.chat progs

I had only seen her photos and the first thing I saw of her was her brown legs in a short skirt, followed by boobs that defied gravity and wanted to escape .. 

I think I can keep cool, calm and collected - but my first though was 'my goodness' - then I saw EVERYONE was pretending not to look and SHE was watching for my reaction ....

Fair play to you, Blighty...    I'm sure I failed the test ...




Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on June 27, 2018, 07:57:34 AM
Well it was my impression that she had deliberately  decided to expose her breasts.


Most women want a man to be attracted to them physically but the don't want a pervert. She may have been testing you to see what kind of man you are. There's no reason to regularly stare at a woman's body on the first few dates. If she becomes your wife someday, you'll get to see her everyday.

I think my talk of being there for dating is what did irrepairable damage and it killed of may chances as far as an LTR were concerned.


You've been on this forum long enough to know that talking about other women is a no no. Even if a woman prods you for information, don't talk about other women. You giving her the impression you're there to see many women isn't good. She may think you're a sex tourist and not looking for love.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 27, 2018, 10:35:41 AM
Most women want a man to be attracted to them physically but the don't want a pervert. She may have been testing you to see what kind of man you are. There's no reason to regularly stare at a woman's body on the first few dates. If she becomes your wife someday, you'll get to see her everyday.

You've been on this forum long enough to know that talking about other women is a no no. Even if a woman prods you for information, don't talk about other women. You giving her the impression you're there to see many women isn't good. She may think you're a sex tourist and not looking for love.

I didn't really stare as I know from the past that showing too much interest can put a girl off. It just became evident that she was showing more off, I believe deliberately.

I know you're that I should know not to mention other women, I just did not realise how even a vague talk on being there to date would sou things. I mean I was dating her so I thought it obvious that I am dating (I didn't specifically mention I was dating other women) but it looks like ant brief passing by of the subject causes them to read into it more than there was. So in future I will definately stay clear of the whole mindfield and if conversation moves that way quickly find some other subject to talk about.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on June 27, 2018, 10:58:38 AM
I didn't really stare as I know from the past that showing too much interest can put a girl off. It just became evident that she was showing more off, I believe deliberately.

I know you're that I should know not to mention other women, I just did not realise how even a vague talk on being there to date would sou things. I mean I was dating her so I thought it obvious that I am dating (I didn't specifically mention I was dating other women) but it looks like ant brief passing by of the subject causes them to read into it more than there was. So in future I will definately stay clear of the whole mindfield and if conversation moves that way quickly find some other subject to talk about.

No they didn't, they read it exactly correct, you did not just ask one woman out for a date, you did go there specifically to meet several women.
I know you have some disturbing values and ideas about both yourself, poor shitty Ukraine and women in general, but do you think all women are Stupid also?

I wouldn't quite say miserable failure
Two dates in two weeks on a outspoken date-trip, oh yes that is a miserable failure.

I know we should not compare, but on my first trip to Ukraine that wasn't to visit one, I had 6 dates in one week, I know your protest will be that I was in Kyiv and you where in Lviv.. but naah, don't wont make such a huge a difference. That is about approach and being able to look like a suitable and serious future partner.
Quote

I think the thing is while the above point might be obvious to you Nightwish if you haven't been out there a lot such aa myself it is not necessarily so.
This is quite obvious to any thinking person that don't think they are god-sent for this women just because they happen to be in the town..
For me this shows clearly how you think you are on some kind of rescue mission to save a poor Ukrainian woman from dumpst-town.


Quote
To most people not into this type of venture what I did would make practical sense. Telling them they should make a flight to visit one girl wouldn't and telling them to keep of talk of dating while dating a FSW wouldn't make sense either.
and here you are wrong, most people understand this without even have been told this, and you have been told this, avoid all talk about other women, reason for being there.. stay clear of all these subjects, your a tourist that just happen to find her on the site and asked her for a date since she looked lovely, smart, sweet, pretty, interesting (what ever suits you) .. that always works.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 27, 2018, 11:22:33 AM
Well now, the above situation with the girl showing off her boobs came at the end of my trip. What I haven't yet said about on here is what happened on the train from Krakow to Lviv and there after. It was quite a situation and one I knew I could not write about in Lviv for the time it would take me off my search so here we go:

So it turns out the train journey from Krakow to Lviv is not a straight forward one, in fact anyone reading this should know that it is doubtless far easier & quicker to do it by plane at little extra cost. Well the boiled down to the fact that the connection train at Przemsyl near the Polish border was not made and I doubt it rarely is. The train arrived in Krakow on time but left late then must have gone too slow as when I got to Przemsyl the connection train had already left the station. I was not alone, sharing my carriage cabin was a Ukrainian female around my age. I had at first though she was part of a family with these two older couple as she was chatting away to them in the corridor for some time. Turns out she was entirely alone, anyway she had a large bag and suitcase I helped her with and since she was in the same predicament as me helped me out with sorting out the situation, i.e with getting the next train. For the next three hours we were at the station then another three hours thereafter on the train.

She was definately into me, she kept eyeing me up generally focusing on my face, not only did we seem to get on well she was bang on target for everything I would wish for in a partner. She was considerate and the big turn up for the books was when I said I would buy her a drink she paid! It was just a couple of bottles of mineral water but it was totally different attitude to the last girl I was with. She even looked surprised when I said I will pay for them but she refused and bought them anyway. To all onlookers we probably looked like husband and wife already, there was a kind of natural togetherness. We went to the ticket office together and she sorted the situation out and I heped her with her bags. We stood and sat close to each other and interacted a lot. She unfortunately spoke little English though this improved as we spent time together. I ussed my Google translate app on my for to communicate with her. To be honest its not the smoothest way to communicate but its all I had.

Well long & short is we parted at Lviv train station where she met her friend. Don't worry, we swapped phone numbers aka Viber during situation ;) Thing is though she has accepted my invite she has not responded to my message. I have looked her up since on Facebook and she does not appear to be married or in a relationship, i.e no photos of men or kids, etc and I got the impression she was single. She does not live in Lviv but elsewhere in Ukraine. My only thoughts is perhaps she does not want a relationship with a foreign guy, so doesn;t want to complicate things as if she's happy with her life despite being single then she may not want it all turned upside down. My only other concern is that for having children she is at an age where the odds aren't good. I would say though that she is what I would now judge in my search for a woman in terms of quality as being the yardstick for what I would like to see in the women interact with in this venture :) Whether I should follow up anymore with her I am unsure my message was sent in English so maybe I should do a Ukrainan translation Idk.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: ML on June 27, 2018, 11:44:48 AM
I would say though that she is what I would now judge in my search for a woman in terms of quality as being the yardstick for what I would like to see in the women interact with in this venture :)

This happens quite a bit.
i.e. We find a mate either when we aren't really looking for one, or they show up in a situation that wasn't pre-planned.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 27, 2018, 12:16:52 PM
This happens quite a bit.
i.e. We find a mate either when we aren't really looking for one, or they show up in a situation that wasn't pre-planned.

Yeah, that's exactly what I thought, lol. It's strange that it happens that way. If you think about it the odds should be remote but if anything it seems to end up as better odds than roaming around a square packed full of woman all day. Quite how this comes about I do not know.

Still I have the question mark over why she has not contacted me back, it's kind of bizarre.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: 2tallbill on June 27, 2018, 03:57:15 PM
NOTE: I am writing for the newbies here because Trench is incapable of learning by
participating at the forum. I wonder if I need to tell him to zip his fly up after leaving
the toilet or if he can figure that part out himself.

until I started talking about being in Lviv for dating - her demeanour changed and I could see that she was unhappy, even pissed off with my talk on it.     

Seriously you continue to act like a newbie with no experience that doesn't read what
we write here. Sometimes I think that you don't have a chance. You've made what?
3-4 trips and you said that you arrived for dating women.

Here is the future answer for those who can show up with their fly closed.

Part One "I came to meet a girl, but it didn't work out."
Part Two "Then I saw your photo and I had to meet you!"
Part Three "It's been my dream all my life to wake up to a girl with
a sunny smile like yours" (or something similar) 
 


Title: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: 2tallbill on June 27, 2018, 04:11:56 PM
I didn't really stare as I know from the past that showing too much interest can put a girl off. It just became evident that she was showing more off, I believe deliberately.

I know you're that I should know not to mention other women, I just did not realise how even a vague talk on being there to date would sou things. I mean I was dating her so I thought it obvious that I am dating (I didn't specifically mention I was dating other women) but it looks like ant brief passing by of the subject causes them to read into it more than there was. So in future I will definately stay clear of the whole mindfield and if conversation moves that way quickly find some other subject to talk about.

Trench,

You need to have an answer for standard questions that every single girl will
ask you.

How will you avoid a minefield pray-tell. Any normal FSUW will interrogate you
like Nazi SS troops if you try to give an answer the slip. What you need is an
answer for ordinary questions that will be asked of you.

Why are you traveling to my city?
BAD ANSWER = To be a sex tourist

Trench start a new thread today called questions and answers. I used to think
that you might be able to work through this but now, I really think you are
hopeless, but it might help others.

How was your morning?
BAD ANSWER = I woke up with a giant erection thinking of hot young girls! 

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 28, 2018, 12:55:19 AM
Your right Bill, thank you for the input I think I need to consider stuff to say to heat it up a bit insead of just the usual back & forth conversational stuff that becomes a bit of a crutch for me.

The other thing is that I messed up on a couple of questions/areas which like you say I shouldn't off which I should have turned into an advantage like you have put. I had heard about women not taking well to any notion of dating other women but I just didn't realise the extent to which it goes on any slight idea that that may be the case.

I know it may not look like Ilisten here Bill but your input is helping me out a lot and I think slowly but surely it is getting through, so I much appreiciate :)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Bee Farmer on June 28, 2018, 07:39:50 AM
Quote
Here is the future answer for those who can show up with their fly closed.

Part One "I came to meet a girl, but it didn't work out."
Part Two "Then I saw your photo and I had to meet you!"
Part Three "It's been my dream all my life to wake up to a girl with
a sunny smile like yours" (or something similar) 

Bill, that's great advice if you are a chump who is trying to hook up with a low class girl.

That's horrible advice if you are a man of integrity who wants a long term relationship with a quality lady.

Any lady with any self-respect is going to see right through that BS.  Yes, flattery will get you places with easy girls, but quality ladies see right through empty flattery.

And what happens if a girl hears empty flattery?  She knows that you will say what you think she wants to hear.  She knows she can never completely trust you, because you are not completely honest.  She will never fully commit to a relationship with you.  There will always be a part of herself that she holds back.  Is this what you want?  (Some people are ok with an arrangement like that.  Look how many divorced people pursue relationships.  Everyone knows you can't trust a divorced person in a relationship, because how can you expect them to keep their promises to you, if they didn't keep their promises to their former spouse?  And people who have been divorced always view divorce as an option, and if you have a backdoor out of a marriage, you will never completely go all in.  If a problem is big enough, you will walk away instead of fixing it.)

If you want a life-long relationship built on trust, it is better to tell a girl that you came to the city to go on dates with multiple women.  She will respect you for being honest.  (And if she is the only girl you choose to continue dating, she will feel special.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWklW1UnpX4
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 28, 2018, 08:13:43 AM
Bill, that's great advice if you are a chump who is trying to hook up with a low class girl.

That's horrible advice if you are a man of integrity who wants a long term relationship with a quality lady.

Any lady with any self-respect is going to see right through that BS.  Yes, flattery will get you places with easy girls, but quality ladies see right through empty flattery.

And what happens if a girl hears empty flattery?  She knows that you will say what you think she wants to hear.  She knows she can never completely trust you, because you are not completely honest.  She will never fully commit to a relationship with you.  There will always be a part of herself that she holds back.  Is this what you want?  (Some people are ok with an arrangement like that.  Look how many divorced people pursue relationships.  Everyone knows you can't trust a divorced person in a relationship, because how can you expect them to keep their promises to you, if they didn't keep their promises to their former spouse?  And people who have been divorced always view divorce as an option, and if you have a backdoor out of a marriage, you will never completely go all in.  If a problem is big enough, you will walk away instead of fixing it.)

If you want a life-long relationship built on trust, it is better to tell a girl that you came to the city to go on dates with multiple women.  She will respect you for being honest.  (And if she is the only girl you choose to continue dating, she will feel special.)

I think you may have some valid points here Beefarmer. I would need to make sure I deliver any flattery or complimentso so they don't fall flat and appear empty. I do think though I could do with hearing up th situation/discussion a bit though when deeper into the conversation.

I think your point with divorced women is a valid point also that they may best be avoided or at least concerned about if looking for a long term affair.

I'm still not sure any talk if meeting many will go down well, that even if coming out with it straight it will be a big downer. After all how does she not know you are telling many of the girls that they are the 'chosen one' and you are not just being a player?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on June 28, 2018, 09:41:26 AM
you poor guys
so focused on details
that you overlook the big picture
if it takes you this much effort
then you’re doing it wrong

generally, you want to make a woman your “friend” first
BEFORE you move on to romance
this will allow her to be comfortable with you
and then if she’s interested SHE will send romantic signals to YOU
if, after a few days you don’t get the signals, then you still had a nice time
move on, and you learned more for next time

Trench, not seeing any progress here,
repeating the same thing but expecting better results
is not a good strategy

I can only conclude that your ability to establish a close rapport
with a Ukrainian woman is not something that you can easily achieve
if this was the right choice for you, you already would’ve succeeded
so I conclude this is NOT the right choice for you
so much easier for you to make Trench more interesting
take your home renovation project
and make a comical but interesting youtube video of it
you could even make local presentations, etc in nearby cities
and meet people who share your interest
on home renovation, or anything else you choose
as I said before, turn yourself into a flag
run it up a flag pole
and look around and see who salutes it
so much simpler this way
they come to you



Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 28, 2018, 10:40:08 AM
you poor guys
so focused on details
that you overlook the big picture
if it takes you this much effort
then you’re doing it wrong

generally, you want to make a woman your “friend” first
BEFORE you move on to romance
this will allow her to be comfortable with you
and then if she’s interested SHE will send romantic signals to YOU
if, after a few days you don’t get the signals, then you still had a nice time
move on, and you learned more for next time

Trench, not seeing any progress here,
repeating the same thing but expecting better results
is not a good strategy

I can only conclude that your ability to establish a close rapport
with a Ukrainian woman is not something that you can easily achieve
if this was the right choice for you, you already would’ve succeeded
so I conclude this is NOT the right choice for you
so much easier for you to make Trench more interesting
take your home renovation project
and make a comical but interesting youtube video of it
you could even make local presentations, etc in nearby cities
and meet people who share your interest
on home renovation, or anything else you choose
as I said before, turn yourself into a flag
run it up a flag pole
and look around and see who salutes it
so much simpler this way
they come to you

Krimster you're back!!! :D  :clapping:

What happened I thought you were on a do or die mission from the last message you left?

Well yes I think also you have a point. I tried with both train girl & last meet girl to build a rapport but I guess I didn't go far enough. The girl dud not speak good English so that hampered progress. The last meet girl I went onto do dinner to try & build better rapport. We did build more rapport by carrying onto dinner but I think perhaps not enough plus the dating talk mistake etc was made on my part.

I think for me the visit many doesn't give me the time I need to build rapport. For me I am not quick at building a lot of rapport on a short space of time. If she was steaming hot into me then that might not matter but I don't think even train girl was as strongly into me as that.

Your idea of 'raising the flag' is a very good one. I often struggle to think of stuff like that so thank you :) I am still interested in foreign women so for me it's something to think about.

For the moment I am going to go back to visit one and do weekend visits as Nightwish suggests. I think it probably suits my personality more. I can take the experience gained from this trip though as it all helps even though it was not a success I learnt a fair bit. I want to get better at this and I think gradually I'm getting there :)

I think your idea has real merit though, I kind of think if you can be seen as a leader even on a small scale, even if somewhat comical then that can be very attractive to women and like you say see who salutes. So yes potentially easier perhaps.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Bee Farmer on June 28, 2018, 11:20:19 AM
Quote
I'm still not sure any talk if meeting many will go down well, that even if coming out with it straight it will be a big downer. After all how does she not know you are telling many of the girls that they are the 'chosen one' and you are not just being a player?

You need 3 things to get a woman.  Time, money, and effort.  If you are lacking in any one of those 3, you will have to make up for it with extra of the other things.

Talk of meeting many may not go down well, initially, but it doesn't have to go down bad either.  Just understand that the girl will be guarded, and may feel like she is being treated as a job interview.  (Or as a piece of meat if you are grabby, or focused on sex, in which case it will likely go down badly unless she is just looking for a hookup.)

It is on the next visit that you make the girl feel special, because you returned just to see her.  She knows you had many options, but you liked her best.

How do you convince her that she is the chosen one and you are not being a player?  Simple - don't be or act like a player.

Make sure you show her that she is your number one priority for the return trip.  You want to spend every available moment you have with her.
Let her know when your plane arrives and leaves.  Invite her to meet you at the airport.
Ask her to take off work to spend time with you.  Reimburse her for whatever pay she loses.  Insist at least 3 times that she take the money.  If she still refuses after you have insisted 3 times, slip it in her purse or jacket pocket when she isn't looking.
If she can't take off work, text her a couple times a day letting her know you are thinking of her.  Ask her how her day is going, or let her know what interesting things you are doing.
If she can't get off work, be in the area she works, and text her a little before lunch offering to meet for lunch.
If she is able to get off work early, drop everything you are doing so you can spend time together.  If you are "busy," she may suspect you are out on a date with someone else.
Give her the same level of communication about your schedule that you would if you were married.  Don't be secretive.  It will only build mistrust.
Don't give her any reason to suspect you being insincere.  Don't go to a bar or club without her, or any places guys commonly go trying to pick up women.
Don't make sex your primary focus.  Make getting to know her and becoming friends your primary focus.  If you marry her, you'll get tons of sex.
Don't lie to her at all.  Give her the same level of openness and honesty you would give your wife.  After all, dating is just a trial run at being married.
Always try to make her feel important.

Krimster does bring up a good point.  Be the kind of man good girls are looking for.  Put yourself where you can be seen by them.  They will notice you.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on June 28, 2018, 11:59:09 AM
"What happened I thought you were on a do or die mission from the last message you left?"

returned from Amsterdam yesterday....
smoked way too many "splifs"
two weeks from now I leave for Crimea
in Russia, splifs smoke you
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on June 28, 2018, 12:33:23 PM
it's important to put a woman in the "friend zone" first
and THEN jump to the "bone zone"
but it looks to me that whatever approach you're utilizing
for meeting women
is not getting you the right woman
and needs to be changed

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on June 28, 2018, 12:46:24 PM
Oh Canada!!!
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 28, 2018, 12:57:19 PM
"What happened I thought you were on a do or die mission from the last message you left?"

returned from Amsterdam yesterday....
smoked way too many "splifs"
two weeks from now I leave for Crimea
in Russia, splifs smoke you

Ah, thought you might be on your way to assassinate Trump by the way it was sounding, lol.

So instead off to prove your point about Crimean villages then ;D
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on June 28, 2018, 01:02:03 PM
If you want a life-long relationship built on trust, it is better to tell a girl that you came to the city to go on dates with multiple women.


Not in Ukraine.  She can get that with local men, who aren't cheap when they date.  No meeting merely for "drinks".


I read to the better half Trench's post about saying he was in Ukraine to date.  His reaction was to  laugh out loud at how the woman would react to that, and how stupid a man has to be to say that to an FSUW.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 28, 2018, 02:31:14 PM
"She can get that with local men, who aren't cheap when they date."

ohhhh yes they are!!!
incredibly so!!!
local dating is pretty tough for Ukrainian women
I've heard ALL the stories
I laugh when you accuse us of making a making a misogynistic mole hill
but ignore the Russian mountain
 

I get the impression it's a bit of a game out there then. The woman pushing for what she can get and the guy pushing back to give as little as possible. Though I guess the best girls getting more than the not so good ones perhaps?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 28, 2018, 04:10:44 PM

Again, a gopnik attitude.  Didn't you interact with any normal Ukrainians?

Well for me there was the train girl she actually paid for me, she was a Ukrainian police officer, she never asked for a bribe either ;D

Other than that some of the people I interacted in and around the old town in Lviv & people in general seemed normal enough. However, I think I know Krimster means when it comes to dating & relationships in general I get the impression it's best to sound out the ground first and wait and see if I have what you call a gopnik first (what I call a chav ;) ) or a girl that has learnt to be more refined.

I think though with the last meet girl she knew her value was not high because of her age from local dating even though she looked pretty fit. I think she was somewhat refined so not so gopnik perhaps.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: rwd123 on June 28, 2018, 04:33:48 PM
Not Ukrainian, it is Russian, but this forum has some hilarious content (use google translate if you don't know Russian). You'll get a better idea of some of the dating experience of women in Eastern Europe. I assume the women there talk about the horror stories more than the good dates, but not every guy there is a chivalrous knight in shining armour.

http://www.woman.ru/forum/

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on June 28, 2018, 04:52:07 PM
Not Ukrainian, it is Russian, but this forum has some hilarious content (use google translate if you don't know Russian). You'll get a better idea of some of the dating experience of women in Eastern Europe. I assume the women there talk about the horror stories more than the good dates, but not every guy there is a chivalrous knight in shining armour.

http://www.woman.ru/forum/

One can find tons of similar, or effects worse stories written by American women.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Bee Farmer on June 28, 2018, 08:31:29 PM

Not in Ukraine.  She can get that with local men, who aren't cheap when they date.  No meeting merely for "drinks".


I read to the better half Trench's post about saying he was in Ukraine to date.  His reaction was to  laugh out loud at how the woman would react to that, and how stupid a man has to be to say that to an FSUW.

I'm not saying that saying you are there to date several women is a good choice, but compared to the other suggested option of empty flattery (a lie) I think honesty is still a better choice.  Not good, but better than a lie.

Probably a safer, and truthful, reason would be to say vacation/tourism.
The best reason would be a WOVO trip.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 28, 2018, 10:11:58 PM
Funny thing about Russia

No-one wants to live in a ground floor apartment

If you live in a house, they often put a high fence around it

Yet, I have found any neighbour to be caring- trustworthy and they pay bills for us and we them if away

That's the funny thing I've always found on my few trips over there to Ukraine. The people seem very freindly and hospitable, helpful even and I never got the impression it was done to dupe me for financial gain.

People on here have said about how tough it is out there. I see very few though if any that look like they have the outward viciousness to directly challenge in a violent confrontation like you might find in the rougher parts or even not so rougher parts of the UK (not talking those of African decent either). Most Ukrainians I think don't have the backbone for direct violent confrontation. Not as a first response at any rate. Even the concept of bribes out there I think is probably put across in as friendly non hostile way as possible so that it isn't seen as a bribe and more of an informal business exchange to which the one giving the bribe has voluntarily chosen to do so. So not really a demand upon which animosity is drived but a voluntary social interaction rather than the old US gangsters of 'pay up or else'.

I think Ukrainians have grown up learning that it doesn't help them to be seen as overtly hostile, thieving, etc. That they have the most to gain by projecting a friendly outlook and indeed most genuinely being so. I think that on the quiet though that if they think they can get away with nicking this or that without much likely hood of being found out/anyone knowing thy will do so, not all but many. I don't think as in a break in mentality, at leat not ad a first response but opportunism to take whatever is more or less laying around for easy taking on the quiet, even if the have to dig it up ;) I think this is probably seen as the least risky and most easiest way to bring in a few extra bucks to survive. That's what I make out of it.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on June 28, 2018, 10:25:24 PM
you have to trust me on this one Trench
living there will give you a completely different perspective than visiting
this is what happened to me
my eyes were opened but only after I lived there
then I couldn't get out fast enough
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 28, 2018, 10:36:07 PM
you have to trust me on this one Trench
living there will give you a completely different perspective than visiting
this is what happened to me
my eyes were opened but only after I lived there
then I couldn't get out fast enough

I kind of get the impression it's an old skool, 'don't  take anything valuable' with you over there. This is going to be my approach from now on as a result of a minor incident over there (yet to findo the time to tell you guys about that). Essentially my Samsung mobile (worth around £280 or so) went temporarily missing I got it back but in future have bought a cheap Moto C dual sim phone I'll just use for travelling over there. Just too much risk & bother otherwise. So now I have an expensive Home mobile and a cheap Travel mobile :D I get the impression getting organised on this front and being as independent as possible so not to be seen as weak is the way to go.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on June 28, 2018, 11:08:17 PM
now yur learnin and getting smarter!

here's one of the tricks I picked up...

carrying any kind of concealed weapon is a big legal no no in ukraine
so I carried a massive steel padlock that fit PERFECTLY in my clenched fist
nothing illegal about carrying a padlock
but put that massive Chinese steel padlock in your fist
and let loose with full force on someone's jaw
and GAME OVER MAN!
it was my security blanket

you have to have every kind of skill there

iphones have a feature for tracking if stolen
used it to keep track of daughters locations in Amsterdam
in case THEY were stolen

in Amsterdam, also good for finding nearest "coffeeshop" to my current location, for like coffee
you never know when you might need a quick "pick-me-up" in Amsterdam
oh the baristas there are sweet, be sure to leave your barista a good tip
so next time when she weighs out 5 grams for you you get choice buds and no stems
just sayin
now that ukrchicks can get shenghen visa to Europe
you COULD take them to Amsterdam
back in the day, if I coulda done that
I would've been able to completely savage
the delicate flower of Ukrainian womanhood
to my heart's delight

oh my just thinkin about it
and I did see a few elite western players there with their Ukrainian trophies doing just that
had a major envy attack









Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Davo2 on June 28, 2018, 11:21:26 PM
Not Ukrainian, it is Russian, but this forum has some hilarious content (use google translate if you don't know Russian). You'll get a better idea of some of the dating experience of women in Eastern Europe. I assume the women there talk about the horror stories more than the good dates, but not every guy there is a chivalrous knight in shining armour.

http://www.woman.ru/forum/


Thanks for the link.... I've been laughing, cringing and changing my opinion of FSU women after an hour reading on this site.

Some sing the praises of foreign men, their personalities and sexual performance in comparison to Russian men, but others are brutal in their opinions of us.

"Nonsense! Our men are the best, sincere and caring. I understood it when I worked in Leningrad in a hotel for foreigners. Foreigners are hard-core individualists, greedy and calculating, with very limited horizons, who know little beyond their work. Selfishness from them and pret. Women in general have nothing to put, the manner of politeness is zero, treated on an equal footing as a man. And not all handsome. There are also bald, and fat, and sluts. And many more foul-smelling gases can be released from the back seat, as if necessary"

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on June 28, 2018, 11:29:25 PM
now yur learnin and getting smarter!

here's one of the tricks I picked up...

carrying any kind of concealed weapon is a big legal no no in ukraine
so I carried a massive steel padlock that fit PERFECTLY in my clenched fist
nothing illegal about carrying a padlock
but put that massive Chinese steel padlock in your fist
and let loose with full force on someone's jaw
and GAME OVER MAN!
it was my security blanket

you have to have every kind of skill there

iphones have a feature for tracking if stolen
used it to keep track of daughters locations in Amsterdam
in case THEY were stolen

in Amsterdam, also good for finding nearest "coffeeshop" to my current location, for like coffee
you never know when you might need a quick "pick-me-up" in Amsterdam
oh the baristas there are sweet, be sure to leave your barista a good tip
so next time when she weighs out 5 grams for you you get choice buds and no stems
just sayin
now that ukrchicks can get shenghen visa to Europe
you COULD take them to Amsterdam
back in the day, if I coulda done that
I would've been able to completely savage
the delicate flower of Ukrainian womanhood
to my heart's delight

oh my just thinkin about it
and I did see a few elite western players there with their Ukrainian trophies doing just that
had a major envy attack

Yeah, I wondered what the situation was in Ukraine with concealed weapons, much the same as the UK really by the sounds of it. Padlock idea a good one. Like I say I've never felt a full on confrontation is often their style over there but handy to know you've got a backup just in case.

Well my Samsung had an app on it to track it down. Unfortunately though as it had no GPS signal as not a local sim in it I could not track it down from my tablet. The tablet I had also had the obvious drawback of once moving out if wifi range I would no longer be able to track it even if I had a local sim.

So I actually bought 2 Moto C dual sim phones over there. Seemed a kind of crazy thing to do as people would probably ask why. It means though I can track on down with the other plus I can still make calls & receive sms text, etc. So I can put one in my luggage switched on and keep one me. If mu luggage goes astray it helps me to track it down, if my phone on me goes astray I get the one out of my luggage to track it down :D

They cost me each just a bit over £60 each so pretty cheap safety safeguard really as losing that stuff can cause real problems when abroad I think.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on June 28, 2018, 11:49:00 PM
"Some sing the praises of foreign men, their personalities and sexual performance in comparison to Russian men"

that's what UKR women have told me as well
also better fathers
or so my kids tell me, usually right before allowance day...

if you're an average looking 40ish guy with money
you can do whatever you want in Ukraine
and however you want
with whoever you want
and if a particular flower is no longer of interest
there's a whole garden for you to consider




Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on June 29, 2018, 06:29:57 AM
Have you ever considered that you are dealing with women who are actively seeking a foreign partner, and therefore, will idealize WM?

I have the experience of an FSUM who is a great father.  His father was a good father, as were his grandfathers, his uncles, and his male cousins.  I saw many, many wonderful fathers in Ukraine, men who would do anything for their children.  Almost all the men I met were devoted to their children.  Even, for the most part, those men that were alcoholics.

I know of only one case where a father abandoned his wife and sons.  I saw far more cases where unfit mothers withheld their children from their divorced husbands, jealously guarding time with them, because if the husband obtained custody of the child/children, support payments, usually used to fund a "party" lifestyle, disappeared.  Men who had never married the women who bore their children were a different story, but usually, there were issues around paternity.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on June 29, 2018, 07:58:41 AM
certainly when it comes to describing the “human experience” in a particular society
for every person who adheres to the rules governing conduct
there will also be those who are a bit “less devoted” to them
human behavior is far from uniform

when you take the temperature of glass of water
and it says 23 degree centigrade
it doesn’t mean that every molecule is this temperature
in reality there are molecules higher than this
combined with molecules lower than this
whose mean temperature is 23 degree centigrade
over time the extremes become less
as the temperature of each molecule moves towards the mean

good analogy for humans

if you ever wasted an hour of your life watching “DayTime TV” like “Dr Phil”
you would get the impression that white americans are the most “fu%^&d-up” and stupid species of primate that ever walked on earth

however, white Americans do have some redeeming qualities
I have many white friends and blond/gray hair with blue eyes makes me a member
but I’m not “pure”
according to the German Racial laws of 1935
even though my children and I are misclings
by grandchildren will not be
and will be considered racially pure
was thinking about this when I was in Anne Frank’s haus last week
and boy was she pissed at me
and made me feel bad
oh by the way, she changed her mind about people being basically good
what a letdown


Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on June 29, 2018, 09:46:54 AM
Quote
certainly when it comes to describing the “human experience” in a particular society for every person who adheres to the rules governing conduct there will also be those who are a bit “less devoted” to them human behavior is far from uniform


Which is why statements such as "WM are far better fathers than FSUM" are inaccurate.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: IvanM07 on June 29, 2018, 09:55:07 AM
Still I have the question mark over why she has not contacted me back, it's kind of bizarre.

I asked the girl I'm seeing from Odessa and she said it's normal to talk on a train and that her purchasing her own drinks probably meant she wasn't interested in you other than as a friend or curio?

I don't know the culture well so I can't speak on it, just telling you what she said.

Trench,

You need to have an answer for standard questions that every single girl will
ask you...Why are you traveling to my city?
BAD ANSWER = To be a sex tourist

Can definitely see that, it took 2 weeks for me to convince the girl I went to see that I wasn't a sex tourist and even then a few more weeks before she was fully convinced that I was being honest with her. A healthy dose of skepticism I'd say. Her being from around Odessa area though I guess she would see more of that kind of stuff.

I kind of get the impression it's an old skool, 'don't  take anything valuable' with you over there. This is going to be my approach from now on as a result of a minor incident over there (yet to findo the time to tell you guys about that). Essentially my Samsung mobile (worth around £280 or so) went temporarily missing I got it back...



here's one of the tricks I picked up...

carrying any kind of concealed weapon is a big legal no no in ukraine
so I carried a massive steel padlock that fit PERFECTLY in my clenched fist
nothing illegal about carrying a padlock
but put that massive Chinese steel padlock in your fist
and let loose with full force on someone's jaw
and GAME OVER MAN!
it was my security blanket

Even traveling in the market area with Gypsies I never had any issues with things disappearing, or feeling unsafe, could be down to how tall I am or Age, not Sure. I had some fairly valuable stuff on me, an S9+, a Gear S3 Frontier watch, and usually 4-6K Hryvnia as well as $100 or so tucked into the space between the back of my phone case and phone.

All the same though I still had a jacket with zip up pockets on the inside for my phone and wallet when I was wearing it, when not I had my wallet in my front pocket with my keys, and for most navigating around the city used an app on my smart watch that would sync with google maps and told me when and where to turn in X meters, had the double effect of being one less thing to be snatched out of my hand if I wasn't paying attention, and increased battery life on the phone since the watch GPS directions were monochrome.

Also not following your phone like a zombie makes you look less like a tourist or foreigner I think.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on June 29, 2018, 10:10:49 AM
" or feeling unsafe"

I am by nature a person destined to be labeled a paranoid
Russia is a place that can catch even the most paranoid completely off-guard
when I lived in Crimea for 3 years I became a local
and learning by observation. would shove old ladies out of line to just speed up the line a little
yeah, I'm not proud to admit this, but I shoved old babooshkas out of line
and they had to go all the way to the back of the line
and then it started snowing
when I bought my goods at the kiosk
I did a sharp about face and deliberately walked by less than an inch from her shoulder
she lowered her gaze as I walked by
this is what total victory feels like
do you fell safe with people like this standing next to you in line?
ya feel me?
it may look safe in psycho land
but that's part of why it's psycho land
you realize it the moment when the illusion of safety collapses
when out of nowhere something smacks you in the head one day
I lived in Crimea for about 6 months before this happened to me
your mileage may vary depending on many individual factors


Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: IvanM07 on June 29, 2018, 10:22:58 AM
" or feeling unsafe"

I am by nature a person destined to be labeled a paranoid
Russia is a place that can catch even the most paranoid completely off-guard
when I lived in Crimea for 3 years I became a local
and learning by observation. would shove old ladies out of line to just speed up the line a little
yeah, I'm not proud to admit this, but I shoved old babooshkas out of line
and they had to go all the way to the back of the line
and then it started snowing
when I bought my goods at the kiosk
I did a sharp about face and deliberately walked by less than an inch from her shoulder
she lowered her gaze as I walked by
this is what total victory feels like
do you fell safe with people like this standing next to you in line?
ya feel me?
it may look safe in psycho land
but that's part of why it's psycho land
you realize it the moment when the illusion of safety collapses
when out of nowhere something smacks you in the head one day
I lived in Crimea for about 6 months before this happened to me
your mileage may vary depending on many individual factors

Maybe that's the difference In Crimea and Odessa and Kiev then. I never saw those things even outside of tourist areas. The girl I was with made sure we went outside tourist areas to get the best prices on items too. I do know if some individual toolbag pushed me out of line the last thing I'd be doing is putting my head down or taking it.

If it's Psycho land as you say like that it sounds like the US gained a psycho when you left Crimea.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on June 29, 2018, 10:42:57 AM
" the US gained a psycho when you left Crimea."

why thank you, I do score very high in the profile
I consider it a positive adaptation
your children will probably work for mine someday
either directly or indirectly

I lived 6 months in Kyiv way back in 1997
never had any security problems
a bit confused about what I should do when I encountered passed out drunks in the snow
basically a choice between rendering aid or ignoring it
was told by Ukrainians "za boot" forget about it
have seen 2 dead bodies in the winter who froze to death in the same area
one fell asleep after getting drunk on a winter's night
passed out and was dead by early morning taking my girls to school
on the way back from school, someone already scored the dead woman's purse
I went to get my wife so she could call police
by the time we went there cops were already there

victim #2 died less than 25 yards away, somehow passed out on the ground face down
cops were already there taking pictures when I passed by

hey man, don't judge me by my PTSD
everybody in psycholand has ptsd
it's like a breeder reactor that breeds its own fuel
down the municipal steam pipe tunnels deep below the city
where the homeless kids sleep at night

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: IvanM07 on June 29, 2018, 10:51:41 AM
" the US gained a psycho when you left Crimea."

why thank you, I do score very high in the profile
I consider it a positive adaptation
your children will probably work for mine someday
either directly or indirectly

hahahaha, you still smoking that good stuff from amsterdam I see.  :cluebat:
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on June 29, 2018, 11:03:56 AM
it's REALLY good...

there were about a dozen young UK tourists male and female who each consumed a pack of truffles
they started an ad-hoc parade in the street below me which added even more Psilocybin aficionados as it progressed
it then led to a brick wall that anyone could climb and shout out a poem to the crowd
and they would echo it back in unison to the person
later i'll post a photo

this is average Friday night here
and with throngs of people, bicycles, scooters, electric cars, regular cars
people from every nationality, religion, color, you name it, at any given point in time
the full spectrum of human bariation would pass by my window every 10 minutes
and at the end of the day, no one gets hurt
this is what being civilized means




 
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: rwd123 on July 01, 2018, 12:22:07 AM

Thanks for the link.... I've been laughing, cringing and changing my opinion of FSU women after an hour reading on this site.

Some sing the praises of foreign men, their personalities and sexual performance in comparison to Russian men, but others are brutal in their opinions of us.

"Nonsense! Our men are the best, sincere and caring. I understood it when I worked in Leningrad in a hotel for foreigners. Foreigners are hard-core individualists, greedy and calculating, with very limited horizons, who know little beyond their work. Selfishness from them and pret. Women in general have nothing to put, the manner of politeness is zero, treated on an equal footing as a man. And not all handsome. There are also bald, and fat, and sluts. And many more foul-smelling gases can be released from the back seat, as if necessary"
I take it that the site is mostly populated by older women, but did read a thread started by a 20 year old who had unprotected sex in the toilet of a nightclub asking for advice, including how to get his details as she thinks he might love her.

What I've found most interesting is that prevalence of mistresses, attitudes towards mistresses, and attitudes of mistresses. It is almost entirely foreign to me as a concept but seems to be quite common in Russia.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 01, 2018, 01:09:38 AM
I asked the girl I'm seeing from Odessa and she said it's normal to talk on a train and that her purchasing her own drinks probably meant she wasn't interested in you other than as a friend or curio?

I don't know the culture well so I can't speak on it, just telling you what she said.

Can definitely see that, it took 2 weeks for me to convince the girl I went to see that I wasn't a sex tourist and even then a few more weeks before she was fully convinced that I was being honest with her. A healthy dose of skepticism I'd say. Her being from around Odessa area though I guess she would see more of that kind of stuff.



Even traveling in the market area with Gypsies I never had any issues with things disappearing, or feeling unsafe, could be down to how tall I am or Age, not Sure. I had some fairly valuable stuff on me, an S9+, a Gear S3 Frontier watch, and usually 4-6K Hryvnia as well as $100 or so tucked into the space between the back of my phone case and phone.

All the same though I still had a jacket with zip up pockets on the inside for my phone and wallet when I was wearing it, when not I had my wallet in my front pocket with my keys, and for most navigating around the city used an app on my smart watch that would sync with google maps and told me when and where to turn in X meters, had the double effect of being one less thing to be snatched out of my hand if I wasn't paying attention, and increased battery life on the phone since the watch GPS directions were monochrome.

Also not following your phone like a zombie makes you look less like a tourist or foreigner I think.

Ivan I think your girl is probably right. At one point when we were discussing future communication she said 'as friends'. So it was probably curiosity at me being a foreigner and I perhaps misconstrued her many looks at me as interest in me of a more intimate nature.

Probably right on buying the drinks too, lol. If its as Krimster confirmed that it's a kind of courtship  game between boy & girl then it could bizarrely be not a good sign that she was willing to buy, crazy ::)

Well, I know what you mean in being able to walk around and feeling safe and I think being safe most of the time. It really doesn't feel as of its the wild west out there as it may come across on here sometimes. However, I think people notice on the quiet what you have and if they can wrangle it to turn to their advantage, i.e if you leave expensive stuff lying around, etc. If they can get at it without a confrontation then often I think they will. I always try to keep money in my wallet under 1k ghrvina or if more hide the surplus. I've kind of moving more & more to not having expensive stuff while out there, it's just become too much of a liability I think.

I like the idea of the smart watch, can be hide up the sleeve also, may look into seeing if there is a cheap one I can get to do that  :)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 01, 2018, 02:29:31 AM
Trench

I don't know about Lviv - but I've never felt unsafe walking the streets of any RU / UA city ...

I don't carry that much cash ( use travel cards - with limited daily withdrawals )  and insure valuables - like expensive phones against theft / loss

When we have moped gangs in London  - threatening women with kids in the street - do you feel 'unsafe' there, too ?  ...

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 01, 2018, 05:16:01 AM
"attitudes towards mistresses, and attitudes of mistresses. It is almost entirely foreign to me as a concept but seems to be quite common in Russia."

yes, my neighbor in Sevastopol was a minor oligarch who owned a steel mill in central Ukraine
he had a middle age wife and 20 yr old daughter in Sevastopol
and a 20ish mistress in the same city as his steel mill
and he would travel back and forth between the two
he and I were good friends
I could never do something like that to my wife
but I do like to look at the ladies and fantasize
my wife says I don't have enough money to support her
and a mistress...
oh well, but some days I imagine that I do
and that my wife and children wouldn't mind
yeahhhh right....



Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 01, 2018, 12:12:34 PM
I get the impression it's a bit of a game out there then. The woman pushing for what she can get and the guy pushing back to give as little as possible. Though I guess the best girls getting more than the not so good ones perhaps?

Krimster, so how do the mechanics of this work? Does it lead to a lit of arguments/disputes? Or does the girl after a while back down as she's just having the guy on?

Is this the sort of stuff that can lead to breakups if one side pushes too far?

I'm guessing it came about for dating mostly with girl in lower social economic parts of Ukrainian society where their page would be too poor to afford much if anything at all. I'm also guessing that if the girl starts up its generally a case of resisting her efforts and arguing the toss rather than throwing in the towel unless she's way over the top perhaps?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 01, 2018, 02:30:14 PM
“Krimster, so how do the mechanics of this work? Does it lead to a lit of arguments/disputes”

if during your first meetings you have arguments/disputes with a woman, it’s a sign from Bog that this is NOT the right girl for you!!

what I remember from my courtship of my wife was the lack of ANYTHING from her that was negative, just an easy back and forth flow between us, no arguments, nothing like that all...
we would both decide together what to do, i’d bring up some issue and we’d work it out together
everything was about working it out together
and also how my wife immediately “took charge” of me when she met me
which started in the kitchen
and proceeded to the bedroom
she became my “care giver”
my experience with her was unique
compared to all the others
the wife experience is different from the girl friend experience
you’ll know when you meet her
our 19th yr together...


Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 01, 2018, 02:50:13 PM
“Krimster, so how do the mechanics of this work? Does it lead to a lit of arguments/disputes”

if during your first meetings you have arguments/disputes with a woman, it’s a sign from Bog that this is NOT the right girl for you!!

what I remember from my courtship of my wife was the lack of ANYTHING from her that was negative, just an easy back and forth flow between us, no arguments, nothing like that all...
we would both decide together what to do, i’d bring up some issue and we’d work it out together
everything was about working it out together
and also how my wife immediately “took charge” of me when she met me
which started in the kitchen
and proceeded to the bedroom
she became my “care giver”
my experience with her was unique
compared to all the others
the wife experience is different from the girl friend experience
you’ll know when you meet her
our 19th yr together...

Well I kind of got that with the train girl, that she was caring for me and there was a feeling of togetherness. That is what I would like/aim for as the ideal, so it would be what I would wish to look for.

Unfortunately though she seemed to care more as a friend/mutually helping each other out - I helped her with her heavy luggage; than she cared for me a a potential other half. She was 42, though she thought I was 30 or younger, lol. A compliment I much enjoyed :D So she was only two years older though looked good for her years. Problem at course at that age is being able to give birth, possible but apparently can be difficult.

So I'm back to square one almost aside from experience learnt along the way. So I guess will have to keep plugging away and see if I can get nearer the mark.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 01, 2018, 03:29:55 PM
"Problem at course at that age is being able to give birth, possible but apparently can be difficult."

women after age 35, have increased chance of birth defects and complications
just a thought...

you must have some fundamental problem
that I don't understand
because it shouldn't be this hard for you
you should try and get feedback from women
about what your impediment to romance is
i couldn't tell without seeing you and watching you interact
but the guys who do it, do it almost effortlessly
like it's "second nature" to them
is it confidence that they have and you don't
hard to say or pin down
but you should try and get some feedback



Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 02, 2018, 12:01:52 AM
"Problem at course at that age is being able to give birth, possible but apparently can be difficult."

women after age 35, have increased chance of birth defects and complications
just a thought...

you must have some fundamental problem
that I don't understand
because it shouldn't be this hard for you
you should try and get feedback from women
about what your impediment to romance is
i couldn't tell without seeing you and watching you interact
but the guys who do it, do it almost effortlessly
like it's "second nature" to them
is it confidence that they have and you don't
hard to say or pin down
but you should try and get some feedback

I think that getting with a FSW is not too difficult apart from a few that aren't interested. However for me it is finding the right woman long term. I think many guys make the mistake of choosing the wrong girl and it doesn't work out, i.e it's only when the green card or equivalent comes through and she leaves him that the guy discovers she was not really that into him. So for me it's finding the right girl, however the more sincere girls seem not to be so interested in me so far leaving the girls that seem a bit more dubious in nature.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 02, 2018, 02:16:49 AM
Also, do you think it is possible to go from a girl where there is the boyfriend/girlfriend game of her wanting stuff & the guy refusing to/being reluctant to the more wife orientated role of her being more caring?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on July 02, 2018, 06:15:46 AM
I think that getting with a FSW is not too difficult apart from a few that aren't interested. However for me it is finding the right woman long term. I think many guys make the mistake of choosing the wrong girl and it doesn't work out, i.e it's only when the green card or equivalent comes through and she leaves him that the guy discovers she was not really that into him. So for me it's finding the right girl, however the more sincere girls seem not to be so interested in me so far leaving the girls that seem a bit more dubious in nature.

Also, do you think it is possible to go from a girl where there is the boyfriend/girlfriend game of her wanting stuff & the guy refusing to/being reluctant to the more wife orientated role of her being more caring?

TC, these two posts are so negative and may reflect your actual demeanour whilst meeting women. When combined with your fascination for their breasts, you are not exactly exuding much positivity for a woman. Everyone likes their own space at times, and you need a FSUW who makes the kitchen her fiefdom! My wife bans me from the kitchen whilst cooking so that she can watch Russian language programmes over the internet. She has chained herself to the gas cooker voluntarily and against my wishes!
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 02, 2018, 08:37:31 AM
trench
there must be some fundamental problem you're having
I'm gonna take a guess, and you tell me how likely they might be:


1. you communicate that you're "not rich", which might be interpreted as "being cheap"
2. because you don't have a lot of "people experience" you find it hard to "connect" with a woman

if I were you, I would present myself as a "biznessman" to the women in Ukraine
and describe your house restoration and sale business
and say "I am a very organized person" and I do everything on a budget, even this trip
and then quote a realistic amount that you can spend on the trip
this will establish what expectations should be
if she is unhappy with this - then basically she was a grifter and you should move on
if she accepts this, then she will micro-manage every kopec you spend
walk instead of taxis, eat in instead of eating out, etc
go this route and you can help reduce problem #1
cuz it all comes down to "communication"

#2, you need to get rid of your horniness when you talk to the women there
instead, try and learn about their life, what kind of person they are, and what COMMON INTERESTS YOU HAVE
then go do something together to have fun based on the common interests
don't even THINK about sex during this period
just hang out together a lot

when I was on my sabbatical in kyiv many years ago, I had "girl friends"
usually college students I met, and a lot of them wanted to show me around Kyiv
one eventually ended up on my couch one night because we were both too drunk
in the middle of the night, she stood in the doorway of my bedroom, clutching her arms
"i'm cold" she said, I just raised the covers off my bed and she climbed in
it was that easy Trench...



Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on July 02, 2018, 09:59:17 AM
1. you communicate that you're "not rich", which might be interpreted as "being cheap"

if I were you, I would present myself as a "biznessman" to the women in Ukraine
and describe your house restoration and sale business


He is cheap.


I don't think it is a good idea to lie to women.  What happens when she arrives in the UK and finds out he is living on 10,000 pounds a year? 
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on July 02, 2018, 10:12:05 AM
I don't think it is a good idea to lie to women.  What happens when she arrives in the UK and finds out he is living on 10,000 pounds a year?


If Trench can't afford to take care of a woman full time, he might want to consider the temporary solution of renting over buying.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 02, 2018, 11:51:11 AM
trench
there must be some fundamental problem you're having
I'm gonna take a guess, and you tell me how likely they might be:


1. you communicate that you're "not rich", which might be interpreted as "being cheap"
2. because you don't have a lot of "people experience" you find it hard to "connect" with a woman

if I were you, I would present myself as a "biznessman" to the women in Ukraine
and describe your house restoration and sale business
and say "I am a very organized person" and I do everything on a budget, even this trip
and then quote a realistic amount that you can spend on the trip
this will establish what expectations should be
if she is unhappy with this - then basically she was a grifter and you should move on
if she accepts this, then she will micro-manage every kopec you spend
walk instead of taxis, eat in instead of eating out, etc
go this route and you can help reduce problem #1
cuz it all comes down to "communication"

#2, you need to get rid of your horniness when you talk to the women there
instead, try and learn about their life, what kind of person they are, and what COMMON INTERESTS YOU HAVE
then go do something together to have fun based on the common interests
don't even THINK about sex during this period
just hang out together a lot

when I was on my sabbatical in kyiv many years ago, I had "girl friends"
usually college students I met, and a lot of them wanted to show me around Kyiv
one eventually ended up on my couch one night because we were both too drunk
in the middle of the night, she stood in the doorway of my bedroom, clutching her arms
"i'm cold" she said, I just raised the covers off my bed and she climbed in
it was that easy Trench...

I think establishing a 'do it on a budget' theme is a good idea to get the girl thinking the right way.

I've considered saying I am a businessman, I could be in future years to come but at the moment I'm just getting the money in & doing house renovation to fund it all. I've heard that some FSW hear the businessman title used a fair bit and think its almost synonumous with the sex tourist title. So I'm reluctant to venture that forward at least at the moment. I've kind of learnt that pushing the boat out a little further than there is substance behind it can become awkward, like Boethius says if enough of it doesn't ring true or near enough when she arrives in the UK the girl is not likely to take it well.

I think the main problem so far is determining a girl's interest or not in me. I've had this problem to various extents from the start. I've heard other guys have the same problem in not being able to determine easily if a girl is interested in him. I think a lot of the problem is that once a girl knows you are English a curiousity can take over that has similar overtones to a girl that is interested. What some call the English Groupie phenonmena, now not all are English Groupies but many I think can act similar in response once they see/are with an English Guy. The two girls I met in Lviv, I reckon I could have gotten with both of them if I wanted to not because they were interested in me but because they digged the fact that I was English and this was novel to them. My main concern was trying to find a girl that was into me so sex tourism was not my goal here. That and my personal security and wish to avoid STD's by not sleeping with all and sundry seemed a sensible copncern also.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 02, 2018, 11:54:45 AM

He is cheap.


I don't think it is a good idea to lie to women.  What happens when she arrives in the UK and finds out he is living on 10,000 pounds a year?

Thanks :-[

Well actuall its 13,000 a year, that I could easily increase by doing more hours which I know I can easily get, but I have my mind set on more longer term independent income to get meself out of the rat race :D
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: ML on July 02, 2018, 01:09:52 PM
Thanks :-[

Well actuall its 13,000 a year, that I could easily increase by doing more hours which I know I can easily get, but I have my mind set on more longer term independent income to get meself out of the rat race :D

Equals around $17,000 USD which wouldn't qualify for bringing a woman over under USA requirements.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on July 02, 2018, 01:21:06 PM
It’s not enough for the UK either.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on July 02, 2018, 02:01:19 PM

It’s not enough for the UK either.

Moby and I have both already highlighted this fact before to TC. The magic figure is £18,600 which is a big increase from £13,000. He would never be able to support a wife and children on around £13,000!
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on July 02, 2018, 02:07:04 PM
If Trench can't afford to take care of a woman full time, he might want to consider the temporary solution of renting over buying.

Renting is quite expensive in the UK, and it is quickly approaching the monthly cost of a mortgage. It makes more sense to buy rather than to rent a property.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: IvanM07 on July 02, 2018, 02:11:15 PM
Thanks :-[

Well actuall its 13,000 a year, that I could easily increase by doing more hours which I know I can easily get, but I have my mind set on more longer term independent income to get meself out of the rat race :D

I think you're being given some good advice here, Trench. I'm by no means rich, but do well for myself both as far as my age and the national average. I really only took the step to look abroad when I thought I'd be able to take care of and provide for another person very comfortably. If you can't is there a good or very good chance that you can in the next Year or so?

That doesn't mean that I'm not like you in that I don't take care to live prudently. Hell my current house is on the edge of the Ghetto (mostly to be able to buy more car, computer parts, buy stupid shit online and stack savings) But it's important I think to take an unbiased look at your income and if you could reliably care for another person at the national average or above for the next 2-4 years and possibly beyond without her being able to contribute in a financial sense during that period.

The girl I'm seeing speaks great English, has a good trade/education and with her being young, watching Youtube a lot understanding american English and humor...She could probably jump in and start working and get acclimated within a year but I wouldn't put that kind of burden on her to start working ASAP, I've told her my expectations are 2-5 years. I say all that for you to look at and set a reasonable expectation of X years, and whether you can afford to care for her in an average or above average way during that period.

If you can't you probably need to be upfront with them and at least turn it into a positive by saying you're currently on an extreme budget but that's so that you can save up and start a business to be financially independent within X years. You're not lying and turning it into a positive.

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 02, 2018, 02:48:36 PM
He would never be able to support a wife and children on around £13,000!

Not true, I own outright my own home, so that 13k is all disposable income. So would easily cover food, clothing, entertainment and utility bills/taxes.

As said before I can easily increase my hours from 30 at present to 50 or so and easily make the 18.6k that is not a problem for me.

Believe me there are people on benefit that live on a lot less than I bring in.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on July 02, 2018, 03:01:08 PM
Renting is quite expensive in the UK, and it is quickly approaching the monthly cost of a mortgage. It makes more sense to buy rather than to rent a property.

I was suggesting to Trench rent women occasionally instead of "buy" since he may not be able to afford a full time wife.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 02, 2018, 08:38:07 PM
Quote
Well actuall its 13,000 a year,
Equals around $17,000 USD

I thought you were an architect?  In the US, an architect would normally earn $75K a year.

I know gas station attendants who earn more than $17,000USD a year Trench.  (I made almost $17K when I was in high school working at a gas station, and that was almost 25 years ago.)

The lowest unskilled worker can make $17K a year earning minimum wage.  This is the kind of work someone with an 85 IQ can do.

Women look for men who are equal or higher in the dominance heirarchy.  If you earn $17K, then you need to find a woman who earns the US minimum wage or less, with an IQ of 85 or less.  (Look at the bright side, a woman with less than an 85 IQ won't have enough brains to try scamming you.  You will be dealing with someone with an intellect of a 13 or 14 year old.)  If you want a girl from Ukraine, go visit some orphanages, and rescue some girl who is about to be kicked out on the streets because she will be 18.

Now, even if a girl has an 85 IQ but is good looking, she can get a guy who can offer her more than a $17,000 USD lifestyle.  That means you are going to need to look for really ugly girls, really fat, with a low IQ, especially if there is an age gap.  Those are the kinds of girls whose lives will be improved by a guy earning $17K. 

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just trying to be realistic.  If you are not interested in a fat, ugly, and really stupid girl who will have virtually zero economic prospects, then you are going to need to get your life in order before you even think about pursuing a lady.  You don't need to pick up more hours at work - you need to get a different job, and maybe you need to take some schooling (if you have enough brains) to learn a skilled job so you can earn more money.

Just to put this in perspective, they say someone with a 95 IQ (slightly below average for a white person) can be a machinist.  I used to work as a machinist, and I was making over $20 an hour in a factory, and that was over 10 years ago.  I have a high school diploma, no college, and no specialized training.  I learned on the job in machine shops.

Quote
Believe me there are people on benefit that live on a lot less than I bring in.

Then those are the girls you need to be pursuing, as they are the ones who would feel like their life was being improved by being with you.

In the US, (2013 data) a person could get welfare benefits worth $49,175 a year in Hawaii.  The state with the lowest amount of welfare benefits, Mississippi, gives $16,984 worth of benefits.

What is it about your character and person that is so magnificent that a woman would want you and your $17K when she can get $17K in Mississippi? (if she was in the US.)

Quote
Not true, I own outright my own home, so that 13k is all disposable income. So would easily cover food, clothing, entertainment and utility bills/taxes.

Yeah, but what is that house like?

The first house I bought I paid cash.  It was a tax foreclosure property that I bought for $6,500.  It had no running water, the electrical wiring was so bad it was a wonder the place never burned down. (most outlets were charred from being overheated.)  There were holes in the drywall.  The bathroom floor was ripped out.  Hey, I owned it outright, but no woman would ever want to live in it in that condition.  (The property did have a 38 by 50 foot cinder block garage, and I knew the lot and garage was worth more than $6,500.  I had people offering to give me double what I paid for it within a week of buying it.)

The 3rd house I bought I paid $7,000 cash at an auditor's sale, and sold it 2 weeks later for $10,000.  (If a property doesn't sell at a tax foreclosure sale, it gets forfeited to the county, and then they have an absolute auction at an auditor's sale, and something like $1000 is the starting/minimum bid.)  Windows were missing, doors were busted in, coons had been living in the house.  The place was trashed.  Technically, I owned it outright, but no woman worth anything would live in it.  (Only a woman from the lowest dregs of society might have lived there if it was fixed up a little...and I am talking about a drug addicted, homeless, prostitute type of woman.)

Quote
Well actuall its 13,000 a year, that I could easily increase by doing more hours which I know I can easily get, but I have my mind set on more longer term independent income to get meself out of the rat race

$17,000 a year isn't even in the rat race.  The rat race is when you are in a hard to break financial situation.  All you have to do to get out of a $17K situation is to sign up for welfare benefits.  Even with $17K income, you can probably get another $10K in benefits.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: IvanM07 on July 02, 2018, 09:20:14 PM
I thought you were an architect?  In the US, an architect would normally earn $75K a year.

I know gas station attendants who earn more than $17,000USD a year Trench.  (I made almost $17K when I was in high school working at a gas station, and that was almost 25 years ago.)

The lowest unskilled worker can make $17K a year earning minimum wage.  This is the kind of work someone with an 85 IQ can do.

Women look for men who are equal or higher in the dominance heirarchy.  If you earn $17K, then you need to find a woman who earns the US minimum wage or less, with an IQ of 85 or less.  (Look at the bright side, a woman with less than an 85 IQ won't have enough brains to try scamming you.  You will be dealing with someone with an intellect of a 13 or 14 year old.)  If you want a girl from Ukraine, go visit some orphanages, and rescue some girl who is about to be kicked out on the streets because she will be 18.

Agreed, during the recession I was 19 or 20 I lost my job, moved back with my parents and was making $460/week on Unemployment back in Texas and things were still tight for that 3 months until finding a new job.

The absolute last thing on my mind at the time was looking for a wife or Girlfriend Domestically or Abroad.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 02, 2018, 09:38:09 PM
I just checked the Help Wanted ads in the local paper.

Laborer. No experience needed. Must have transportation. $10/hr.

Helping care for mentally retarded people. Must have GED/high school diploma, ability to lift 50 pounds. $11/hr

Laborer working on crew sealing asphalt driveways. Must have transportation. $13/hr

None of these jobs require a drug test.  They know most applicants can't pass a drug test, which is why the pay is so low.

Craigslist Help Wanted Ads...

Semi truck driver - average pay $1300 week
Semi driver - one year exp. No DUIs. $1950 weekly average pay
Experienced landscaper/hardscaper - must pass drug test. $45K-$65K
Starbucks barista - $10-$14/hr
Warehouse workers - $13.70/hr
Quality control inspector - 2 yrs. exp. $17/hr
Experienced handyman/carpenter/remodeler $18-$26/hr
Telemarketer - $15/hr + commission
Machine operator - 6 mos. exp. production or manufacturing $15/hr
Light auto service tech - tires, batteries $30k-$60K
Retail carpentry - installing shelves, displays in stores $13.50/hr
Experienced plumbers - $21-$26/hr

There are 3000 jobs locally in Craigslist Help Wanted.  The lowest pay I saw was $10/hr.

There is no excuse for someone to be making $17K a year unless he is lazy or mentally retarded.  (And if he has a strong back and is willing to work hard, a retarded guy will be able to make $10/hr. as long as he is functional.)

You could always be like my brother.
Did 4 years in the Army. 
Took some technical college courses, but never got a degree.
Physically fit - 5'10" and 150 pounds.  No drugs/alcohol/tobacco.
Works for an agricultural supply place...does custom spraying of pesticides.  Probably earns around $35K-$40K.
Whackjob Bible Thumper nutcase
Got married when he was 36 to a girl in her late 20's who had $30K in college debt, and so fat she had never had a boyfriend.
They moved into a 1960's house trailer he had put on dad's land.
She doesn't work, other than being a stay at home mom for 3 kids.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: IvanM07 on July 02, 2018, 09:53:17 PM
I just checked the Help Wanted ads in the local paper.

Laborer. No experience needed. Must have transportation. $10/hr.

Helping care for mentally retarded people. Must have GED/high school diploma, ability to lift 50 pounds. $11/hr

Laborer working on crew sealing asphalt driveways. Must have transportation. $13/hr

None of these jobs require a drug test.  They know most applicants can't pass a drug test, which is why the pay is so low.

Craigslist Help Wanted Ads...

Semi truck driver - average pay $1300 week
Semi driver - one year exp. No DUIs. $1950 weekly average pay
Experienced landscaper/hardscaper - must pass drug test. $45K-$65K
Starbucks barista - $10-$14/hr
Warehouse workers - $13.70/hr
Quality control inspector - 2 yrs. exp. $17/hr
Experienced handyman/carpenter/remodeler $18-$26/hr
Telemarketer - $15/hr + commission
Machine operator - 6 mos. exp. production or manufacturing $15/hr
Light auto service tech - tires, batteries $30k-$60K
Retail carpentry - installing shelves, displays in stores $13.50/hr
Experienced plumbers - $21-$26/hr

There are 3000 jobs locally in Craigslist Help Wanted.  The lowest pay I saw was $10/hr.

There is no excuse for someone to be making $17K a year unless he is lazy or mentally retarded.  (And if he has a strong back and is willing to work hard, a retarded guy will be able to make $10/hr. as long as he is functional.)

You could always be like my brother.
Did 4 years in the Army. 
Took some technical college courses, but never got a degree.
Physically fit - 5'10" and 150 pounds.  No drugs/alcohol/tobacco.
Works for an agricultural supply place...does custom spraying of pesticides.  Probably earns around $35K-$40K.
Whackjob Bible Thumper nutcase
Got married when he was 36 to a girl in her late 20's who had $30K in college debt, and so fat she had never had a boyfriend.
They moved into a 1960's house trailer he had put on dad's land.
She doesn't work, other than being a stay at home mom for 3 kids.

for 0xp $10/hr isn't bad...I made $8.75 at my first job as a PC repair guy in 2007.

Depending on the field, you don't even need a degree or certs. I have 30 hrs of college, a HS Diploma and an A+ Cert from High School, and I make low six figures. If a lazy IT Nerd can do it just about anyone can, with the proper motivation I figure.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on July 02, 2018, 10:21:57 PM


Just remember guys, you live in America, Trench doesn't. I've had to turn down jobs because I can't find enough qualified people. Half the people that work for me been in jail at some point of their lives. Some haven't graduated from high school. All are legal although at one time some were illegal. Some are felons. Heavy equipment operators get $59 per hr and labors get $48 per hr on starting next month on a government funded job I picked up. I have nieces and nephews just graduated from college and right out of college, turning down jobs paying $100,000 a year because they're being offered more from somewhere else. The economy is booming where I'm at. One has to be a deadbeat if they aren't working. If a person is just an average worker with half a brain, you're better than half the people out there and should be making decent money.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: IvanM07 on July 02, 2018, 11:00:03 PM

Just remember guys, you live in America, Trench doesn't. I've had to turn down jobs because I can't find enough qualified people. Half the people that work for me been in jail at some point of their lives. Some haven't graduated from high school. All are legal although at one time some were illegal. Some are felons. Heavy equipment operators get $59 per hr and labors get $48 per hr on starting next month on a government funded job I picked up. I have nieces and nephews just graduated from college and right out of college, turning down jobs paying $100,000 a year because they're being offered more from somewhere else. The economy is booming where I'm at. One has to be a deadbeat if they aren't working. If a person is just an average worker with half a brain, you're better than half the people out there and should be making decent money.

Fair point, I just kind of assumed with the GBP being worth more the wages would have similar parity.

I thought I read an older post of yours a while ago but couldn't remember, are you in Seattle?

Did the city council tax on employees affect you much? I thought I saw a lot of folks in the construction field protesting the decision at the time. Funny Story, I actually had 2 Interviews with Amazon's core network team out there about a month ago.

Ended up taking a new job in Charlotte rather than moving forward to the next round of interviews. Mostly due to the lower cost of living, friends and family living out that way, and guarantee I had this job lol. Hopefully it will end up the better move than the prestige working for Amazon would have afforded.  ;)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Davo2 on July 02, 2018, 11:28:43 PM
"I used to work as a machinist, and I was making over $20 an hour in a factory, and that was over 10 years ago.  I have a high school diploma, no college, and no specialized training.  I learned on the job in machine shops."

He might be better off becoming a machinist. I work as a machinist and 2nd class welder, although I studied as a qualified toolmaker. I'm on a little over $30 an hour . The last place I worked  as a leading hand and was on $38 an hour.

After hours / part time,  I currently charge $70 an hour contract machining for a local performance part supplier, using my own cnc machinery set up at home..... It's blue collar work, but my part time business has turned very profitable over the last few months. Last weekend I set the mill running and loaded a new job every 30 mins in between gardening and spending time with my kids. I made an easy $1400.

I considered applying for a maintenance fitting job recently service petrol pumps.... 78-85k a year. Company vehicle and on the job training. The only down side was you were on call, after hours and occasionally you were required to do some over night regional jobs. With a skills shortage in these trades, wages are starting to rise especially in maintenance and breakdown fitting. 
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on July 02, 2018, 11:33:58 PM
Not true, I own outright my own home, so that 13k is all disposable income. So would easily cover food, clothing, entertainment and utility bills/taxes.

As said before I can easily increase my hours from 30 at present to 50 or so and easily make the 18.6k that is not a problem for me.

Believe me there are people on benefit that live on a lot less than I bring in.

You are expecting her to have a low standard of living. Her expectations will be much higher than queuing at food banks and shopping for her clothes at charity shops! You are not being realistic about the future, and money problems would naturally lead to friction within any potential marriage of yours.

I do not agree that £40,000 pa is needed but certainly a lot more than £13,000 is required for a decent standard of living ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/02/families-need-40000-year-decent-standard-living/

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: LAman on July 03, 2018, 12:33:33 AM
This is a very good example of people looooooving to talk about themselves!!!


And better at putting somebody down...…….
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on July 03, 2018, 12:42:28 AM
So you think a guy making a third of the average UK wage will have success?  Would it be better to tell him, “Why yes, a UW is looking for a poverty lifestyle with a misogynist.”
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Davo2 on July 03, 2018, 12:43:58 AM
Trench have you added up what this will cost you?


If you realistically look at the expenses involved...  Travel, visas, engagement rings, wedding, relocation costs (for her), preparing your house, her car licence, buying a car, car  insurance and running costs,  study and language courses, heath insurance, dental,  beauty salon costs ( you'll be suppressed on what a local woman  spends, let alone what I've been told about FSU women), clothes, hobbies, entertainment, holidays etc.. etc... etc... Then you throw children into the mix. Believe me, that's not cheap. What ever you think children  will cost, times it by 2. Baby's are expensive, then it gets cheaper when they are 5-12 and then it gets insane when they are teenagers. I now have 2 working so it's taken the pressure off.

 Last year I made $60k through the company I work for ($33652 pounds) On top of that my after hours  business only made $8k , only because it's still in my ex's name..... Paying her out at the end of this month after an expensive  3 year divorce ( learn from my mistake. Look deeper than boobs and good looks, that comes after good morals and a consistent personality) This coming year I project my business will make at least 30k.

Even at this level of income ( which is not high compared to others here), I've been pretty realistic with the women I've talked to. If they want to live an enjoyable life and have a comfortable retirement, they will have to work in my country. For most middle class couples with kids, there is no other option, if you want to have a good standard of living.

I think you're underestimating the costs involved, even if you aren't paying a mortgage and if you are lucky enough to find a woman, she will have no choice to work, despite your feelings on the matter. On that subject, I've yet to chat with one woman who doesn't want to study, get a job and have a successful career if she decided to move to my country. As I've said before, I'm not experienced in any of this, but I get the sense most are driven to succeed with both family and careers.
.

 
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on July 03, 2018, 01:16:28 AM
@LAman I was getting TC to think realistically about how his income is inadequate for this venture. In comparison, I was earning more than £13,000 in 1984. I agree with Boethius that UW are not looking for a poverty lifestyle when moving to a new country!
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 03, 2018, 01:23:32 AM
You are expecting her to have a low standard of living. Her expectations will be much higher than queuing at food banks and shopping for her clothes at charity shops! You are not being realistic about the future, and money problems would naturally lead to friction within any potential marriage of yours.

I do not agree that £40,000 pa is needed but certainly a lot more than £13,000 is required for a decent standard of living ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/02/families-need-40000-year-decent-standard-living/


The 40K is needed by someone who either rents ot pays off a mortgage. That is what they don't tell you in this article, along with that is the before tax earning. So roughly the first roughly 12k is tax free, hence why I'm happy earning 13k ;D After that your talking 20 percent tax basic Income Tax on 12-20k earning of each person, so that is 8K that will be taxed meaning you are only going to get 6k, lol.

Not done there though as there is also National Insurance Tax at 12 percent above earnings of approx 8.4k a year. So 20k earnings minus 8.4k equals 11.6k to tax at 12 percent, so approx 1.4k tax to pay on National Insurance.

So that 6k after income tax (both income tax and national insurance are calulated on the total sum you earn) we can minus 1.4k for national insurance tax bringing the grand total of extra money that person would bring in after tax to 4.6k extra income per year , wohoo... :ROFL:

So after tax each person is really only bringing in 16.6k so 33.2k for both working. Compared to that I will roughly be bringing in about 12.5k after tax. So per person not a lot of difference, I of course do not have rent or mortgage cost to pay - most couples will.

Add to my money of course any child tax credits I may be able to claim under UC in that scenario and their is probably not a lot of difference.

Sure some families will drive a four by four I will drive a normal car. Some will pig out in restaurants at weekends I/we wouldn't. Some will buy expensive clothes, I wouldn't, etc, etc. But you can support a family quite well off 12.5k actual income if you don't have rent or mortgage to pay, even without her working and having a child for quite some time. Many families in the UK live on a lot less. By Ukrainain standards what I am offering is quite a comfortable lifestyle :) 
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on July 03, 2018, 02:02:37 AM
This is like comparing apples and potato.

That Trench is not making enough to support a family I totally agree on,that would be a poor life, but comparing his income to US income is futile.

I make enough money to live a very comfortable life (am not going to throw numbers out here), but this being a socialist nation I take home less then half of my salary, the rest our government seems to think they deserve more then me. :p

How ever, ALL medical care is free.
Schools are completely free 1st grade -> University,
We have 16 months payed leave when having a child.
Fully paid sick leave.
and of course then there is all these welfare programs that I never used, and these are quite generous if you are in need. Designed not only to survive but to live a descent life.

I have no idea how the Brits have this, but $17000 yearly income, that would fall under the "benchmark" minimum wage (~$20k) and almost on verge of poverty and be more or less non taxable.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: mhr7 on July 03, 2018, 02:14:32 AM
Quote
By Ukrainain standards what I am offering is quite a comfortable lifestyle :)

She'll be expecting a comfortable lifestyle by UK standards. One thing FSU, and other, women look for is a man who improves himself and has upward mobility. You seem to be comfortable standing pat and doing nothing. You're trying to accomplish your search for a wife in the laziest way possible.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 03, 2018, 02:31:51 AM
She'll be expecting a comfortable lifestyle by UK standards. One these, and other, women look for is a man who improves himself and has upward mobility. You seem to be comfortable standing pat and doing nothing. You're trying to accomplish your search for a wife in the laziest way possible.

I am trying to move up in life but its not easy when nearly everyone else is trying to do the same also. Plus I am doing it single handed by not being in a couple, that is the problem of a lot of UK women they want the finished product there already baked not realising that a guy is on the same money they are on these day, that it often takes two to accomplish much at all. I don't know what you mean in trying to search for a wife in the laziest way possible? I'm trying to search for a wife in a way that is most efficient and hopefully will bring up what I want. If one strategy fails as it has done here then I learn from it and try and improve on it from what I learnt for next time.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 03, 2018, 02:38:09 AM
This is like comparing apples and potato.

That Trench is not making enough to support a family I totally agree on,that would be a poor life, but comparing his income to US income is futile.

I make enough money to live a very comfortable life (am not going to throw numbers out here), but this being a socialist nation I take home less then half of my salary, the rest our government seems to think they deserve more then me. :p

How ever, ALL medical care is free.
Schools are completely free 1st grade -> University,
We have 16 months payed leave when having a child.
Fully paid sick leave.
and of course then there is all these welfare programs that I never used, and these are quite generous if you are in need. Designed not only to survive but to live a descent life.

I have no idea how the Brits have this, but $17000 yearly income, that would fall under the "benchmark" minimum wage (~$20k) and almost on verge of poverty and be more or less non taxable.

Exactly, the situation is similar in the UK but with a little less welfare in some places, i.e they will not pay as much in welfare support under the different categories, only 6 months paid maternity leave if the girl was working prior for so long, etc

Yes my wage is more or less non-taxable, I will be adding to this more income that is non-taxable along the way once I get sorted out, and that is happening at the moment. I disagree that this would afford a life of poverty - how much does food really cost, a bit of clothes buying here & there? etc.

Like in Sweden we have a free NHS (Health Service), subsidised dentistry, free education, etc so you don't need a lot of income to live well.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on July 03, 2018, 02:42:02 AM
 :wallbash:
I have no idea how the Brits have this, but $17000 yearly income, that would fall under the "benchmark" minimum wage (~$20k) and almost on verge of poverty and be more or less non taxable.

The £18,600 threshold for a spouse visa was set in 2012 as "the level at which a specific type of family – a single-earner household with no children paying £100 per week in rent – is no longer eligible for tax credits or housing benefit.” I know that he will argue about that £100 per week in rent, but the cost of living has risen over the last 6 years. About 40% of the population do not earn enough money to bring in a spouse from outside the EU.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Blighty on July 03, 2018, 03:04:59 AM
Like in Sweden we have a free NHS (Health Service), ...

Are you aware that you need to pay for UK healthcare as part of your immigration application? The current cost for the first 2.5 years is £500 but will increase to £1,000 this year. The same amount (and probably higher) needs to be paid for the final 2.5 years.

They charge in euros at a very poor rate - I had to pay €714 for my wife. That is about £600!
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on July 03, 2018, 03:08:49 AM
Exactly, the situation is similar in the UK but with a little less welfare in some places, i.e they will not pay as much in welfare support under the different categories, only 6 months paid maternity leave if the girl was working prior for so long, etc

Yes my wage is more or less non-taxable, I will be adding to this more income that is non-taxable along the way once I get sorted out, and that is happening at the moment. I disagree that this would afford a life of poverty - how much does food really cost, a bit of clothes buying here & there? etc.

Like in Sweden we have a free NHS (Health Service), subsidised dentistry, free education, etc so you don't need a lot of income to live well.

Bullcrap, Trench you are about to go on an adventure to support not just yourself and your needs, but another person as well, for at least 1,5-3 years.

A woman that comes to you with only the clothes she can carry and nothing, I mean NOTHING else more or less.. just to have her live the same life as in Ukraine, with ALL her support and networks she has there you will have to make the double to what you make now.
She will rely on you for everything, do you have ANY idea how much makeup is, how much hair care products cost, how much she needs for personal hygien e.t.c .. e.t.c...
I can bet a years salary that you have no freaking idea.

Just as a couple of examples, lets say she comes there and she really wants her own laptop to be able to keep in contact with her family and friends, that's about £4-500 for a descent one, that's HALF your monthly income.. and she needs a new phone, again half your monthly income... she wants to visit home 2-3 times a year (I mean you only live a few hours away) for holidays and birthdays, how will you save up to afford this with a steady stream of expenses to keep you two having a descent living.
Take your monthly expenses, then double that - and now double that again - that's is about what she will cost in just "running expenses"..


You say you will give her a better (financial) life, maybe, and marginally, but her life will be very poor in all other aspects since you wont be able to afford anything else, no vacations, no weekend getaways, no surprise gifts, no flowers on a rainy Tuesday just because you found her so extremely beautiful that morning.

so you are in fact condemning a girl to a very poor life, and forget about kids, you wont even be able to keep a cat.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 03, 2018, 03:14:33 AM
:wallbash:
The £18,600 threshold for a spouse visa was set in 2012 as "the level at which a specific type of family – a single-earner household with no children paying £100 per week in rent – is no longer eligible for tax credits or housing benefit.” I know that he will argue about that £100 per week in rent, but the cost of living has risen over the last 6 years. About 40% of the population do not earn enough money to bring in a spouse from outside the EU.

You may well be right on this figure Blighty, lol. I've discussed on here before how few people actually earn the 'average wage' because the figures are skewed by those few earning vast sums of money making the average wage not the reality for Mr & Mrs Joe Average.

People don't understand (particularly those outside the UK unlike us ;) ) how little money the majority of people earn. Even FSW I message online; one had looked at job advertisements and thought how much money we can get in the UK. She had fsiled to understand that you don't just walk into those high paid jobs, UK employers want a lot of skills and heavy experience in return heavily evidenced on the CV and at interview, that there are vast numbers of people after such top jobs, that even vaster numbers stand no chance of even getting a look in - don't have anywhere near the skills or experience or contacts, etc.

So for people to think I'm lazy is not the case, its actually the norm, I can though increase my earnings to easily get above the 18.6k and will do at the appropriate time. I see no reason though in the short term to mess my plans up for better financial independance by working for what would amount to as little extra after tax.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 03, 2018, 03:23:54 AM
Bullcrap, Trench you are about to go on an adventure to support not just yourself and your needs, but another person as well, for at least 1,5-3 years.

A woman that comes to you with only the clothes she can carry and nothing, I mean NOTHING else more or less.. just to have her live the same life as in Ukraine, with ALL her support and networks she has there you will have to make the double to what you make now.
She will rely on you for everything, do you have ANY idea how much makeup is, how much hair care products cost, how much she needs for personal hygien e.t.c .. e.t.c...
I can bet a years salary that you have no freaking idea.

Just as a couple of examples, lets say she comes there and she really wants her own laptop to be able to keep in contact with her family and friends, that's about £4-500 for a descent one, that's HALF your monthly income.. and she needs a new phone, again half your monthly income... she wants to visit home 2-3 times a year (I mean you only live a few hours away) for holidays and birthdays, how will you save up to afford this with a steady stream of expenses to keep you two having a descent living.
Take your monthly expenses, then double that - and now double that again - that's is about what she will cost in just "running expenses"..


You say you will give her a better (financial) life, maybe, and marginally, but her life will be very poor in all other aspects since you wont be able to afford anything else, no vacations, no weekend getaways, no surprise gifts, no flowers on a rainy Tuesday just because you found her so extremely beautiful that morning.

so you are in fact condemning a girl to a very poor life, and forget about kids, you wont even be able to keep a cat.

Not true, stuf like laptops & mobile phones are usually one off expenses, if she has a dual sim phone that a lot of Ukrainains do then she just needs a UK SIM. Point being is that I have savings and once she's set up she should be fine.

Stuff like make up, yes I know it is shockingly expensive even for something simple such as lipstick, I found that out with the last girl I was with. I will just have to ride it out on that one. There will be no problem supporting kids on the money I get, I know things can add up a bit but there are always ways. For instance if I was at a push I have both a good laptop and a good tablet, she could take either, for baby gear there are relatives to source for gear or stuff on gum tree, etc. If push really came to shove you just have to be a bit imaginative but I doubt it would ever come to that.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Nightwish on July 03, 2018, 03:36:46 AM
Not true, stuf like laptops & mobile phones are usually one off expenses, if she has a dual sim phone that a lot of Ukrainains do then she just needs a UK SIM. Point being is that I have savings and once she's set up she should be fine.

Stuff like make up, yes I know it is shockingly expensive even for something simple such as lipstick, I found that out with the last girl I was with. I will just have to ride it out on that one. There will be no problem supporting kids on the money I get, I know things can add up a bit but there are always ways. For instance if I was at a push I have both a good laptop and a good tablet, she could take either, for baby gear there are relatives to source for gear or stuff on gum tree, etc. If push really came to shove you just have to be a bit imaginative but I doubt it would ever come to that.

Yes I know you are cheap, but that is also because you already are poor by any standards.

Used things, second hand clothes, second hand baby items.. yes of course you can live on a "dime" that is not the issue, but you said you would give her a better life.. and what you describe is the life she already have, with the comfort of family and friends and her culture,her language... you don't give her anything more.

Let me ask you this instead.
You say you can support a wife on your current income, but that would be a "turn every penny" life more or less.

Would you not want to give your beloved wife more what she WANTS and not only what she NEEDS.

scratch that, I already know the answer, no you don't...
you want this helpless, sex-slave, grateful, mindless woman who will adore every step you take for rescuing her from that piss poor shithole of a country she was living in.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on July 03, 2018, 04:38:16 AM

Take your monthly expenses, then double that - and now double that again - that's is about what she will cost in just "running expenses"..


It is a  little like your bed--   once you are sharing you have to learn to sleep in your   1/4 of the bed !!     And  a very small percentage of your   $ living budget!!! :)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 03, 2018, 04:44:52 AM
it's not enough Trench....
too much of a struggle will put "pressure" on a marriage
I don't see how you can even take trips to Ukraine on that kind of income
let alone try and raise a family
if you bring a woman over it will be years before she could get a job and contribute financially
so she will be a financial liability at first
if one person is struggling living on your income
how about two?

better choice - go local, someone who has a job who can help out
two people can live more cheaply together than separately
live and date within your means
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: ML on July 03, 2018, 05:43:19 AM
Like in Sweden we have a free NHS (Health Service), subsidised dentistry, free education, etc so you don't need a lot of income to live well.

NO YOU DO NOT HAVE FREE ANYTHING IN UK OR ANYWHERE ELSE.

Free would only be possible if the doctors, dentists, professors, etc. were paid nothing.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Davo2 on July 03, 2018, 05:52:30 AM
"Used things, second hand clothes, second hand baby items.. yes of course you can live on a "dime" that is not the issue, but you said you would give her a better life"

My personal experience with our first child and a first time mother was an eye opener. My ex has older sisters who gave us used clothes , but there was no way she was going to dress our daughter in second had clothes. By our second and third, it wasn't an issue, but defiantly not our first child. She required the best of everything. Your wife will need a new wardrobe of  maternity clothes, that needs upgrading as she grows. Just like clothes your first child will need a collection of new toys, books etc...  that will continuously need to be
added to as it's skills develop. 

Just the cost of nappies (diapers), wipes and nappie rash cream would have easily been over $1500 pounds. The first few years of your first child's life  could cost half your current annual income, but it gets cheaper when the next comes, as you are already set up.

There are so many things as a first time father, I had no idea we needed and a lot of things need to be bought new for sanitary reasons.



Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on July 03, 2018, 06:05:42 AM
I thought I read an older post of yours a while ago but couldn't remember, are you in Seattle?

Did the city council tax on employees affect you much? I thought I saw a lot of folks in the construction field protesting the decision at the time. Funny Story, I actually had 2 Interviews with Amazon's core network team out there about a month ago.

Ended up taking a new job in Charlotte rather than moving forward to the next round of interviews. Mostly due to the lower cost of living, friends and family living out that way, and guarantee I had this job lol. Hopefully it will end up the better move than the prestige working for Amazon would have afforded.  ;)

I live in a suburb of Seattle so city council tax wouldn't affect me. The city of Seattle Council first wanted a $500 head tax on companies makes a certain amount. That would punish large companies such as Amazon and Microsoft and encourage those companies to operate outside of Seattle. Then the council decided to approve a smaller head tax. Then they had a meeting and repealed the head tax.

Seattle is also the first major city to increase minimum wage to $15 an hour. Cost of living went up. No more dollar menus in fast food restaurants since they are charging customers 50% more.

I make enough money to live a very comfortable life (am not going to throw numbers out here), but this being a socialist nation I take home less then half of my salary, the rest our government seems to think they deserve more then me. :p


You give the government more than half your salary but they give you a few "freebies" back. I would love all Americans to have free health care but I know that means it's going to cost a whole lot more.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 03, 2018, 06:55:30 AM
" I would love all Americans to have free health care but I know that means it's going to cost a whole lot more."

somehow the UK figured out how to give universal coverage to EVERYONE in the UK
with no deductible
with no co-pay
and at a cost per person of half what it is in the USA
and they figured out how to do this 80 yr ago

I have relatives living in the UK
their NHS payments are MUCH less than my insurance payments
and they get a WHOLE LOT more
Trump has done everything he can to gut the ACA "Obamacare"
so we may go back to an uninsured rate of 25% again

seriously, every time you look at what this country does
and then compare it to Europe
you can't help but think
we're a bunch of dumb asses worrying about non-existent Obamacare death panels
instead of feeling concern for people who don't even have access to health care
that's the real death panel
but since a lot of these people are poor and brown
trump voters don't give a damn

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: LAman on July 03, 2018, 07:29:00 AM
@LAman I was getting TC to think realistically about how his income is inadequate for this venture. In comparison, I was earning more than £13,000 in 1984. I agree with Boethius that UW are not looking for a poverty lifestyle when moving to a new country!


I was just speaking generally, not just you. Up a couple posts not sure Boe was speaking toward me, she used the word 'success', which to me should not be used here. When dealing with 2 different individuals, different minds, different cultures (usually in RWD), thoughts, emotions, feelings, love, even infatuation...… at what point does 'success' come into play. In a relationship it takes 2 individuals with different minds trying to work together and very easy for one or the other to want a change. Does that mean you 'failed' if your partner bails on the relationship?
 How does 'money' determine love? Do you love more when the other person has 'enough' money? I've seen plenty of people struggle( financially) to make relationship work. Yes, it could be a major reason for ending a relationship but to tell someone else, you will not find love because you don't make enough money?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 03, 2018, 08:36:09 AM
it's not enough Trench....
too much of a struggle will put "pressure" on a marriage
I don't see how you can even take trips to Ukraine on that kind of income
let alone try and raise a family
if you bring a woman over it will be years before she could get a job and contribute financially
so she will be a financial liability at first
if one person is struggling living on your income
how about two?

better choice - go local, someone who has a job who can help out
two people can live more cheaply together than separately
live and date within your means

Ok, I've just done the maths, I get 13k before tax and 12k after tax.

That gives me 1K a month clear to live on.


Costs

£150 a month can be set aside for council tax & electric & heating.

£10 for water & sewage on average a month, so for a couple say £20 a month.

About £75 a week for food & drink, so £300 a month - so for a couple can double that to £600

Car running costs about £100 a month.

So as a single person you can say my costs are £560, for a couple they would be £870.

No rent or mortgage costs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So I bring home an excess of roughly £440 a month as a single person and £130 as a couple without the woman working.

In addition I have savings to fall back on to cover any one off costs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Like I say I can bring in more money in future if needed but I think this demonstrates that it is perfectly do-able on my earnings without cutting things to the bone.
 

Stuff like NHS, education, state pension, etc are free (ok paid for through tax) and stuff like dentistry cheap enough as its subsidised.

If there were children you could add a little to this so the £130 would be squeezed a little but most of the one off costs could be met through savings. Plus of course there are benefits in the UK for those on low earnings with children but by then I should be able to bring in money so wont be needed. So these figures show that it can be done and provide a decent lifestlye :)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Bee Farmer on July 03, 2018, 09:03:37 AM
Quote
Just remember guys, you live in America, Trench doesn't.

What does that have to do with the price of rice in China?  It doesn't.

Or are you suggesting that a woman can move to a different country seeking a better life, but Trench can't go somewhere else to earn more?

Ivan talked of being in Texas, but moving to Charlotte, North Carolina for a better job.  In comparison with Europe, that would be like moving to another country.

I just glances at the help wanted ads in London on Indeed.co.uk http://www.indeed.co.uk/Help-Wanted-jobs-in-London
The lowest category of jobs they list is 15,000+ pounds.

In America, we would say that Trench is trying to play the system.

Quote
This is a very good example of people looooooving to talk about themselves!!!


And better at putting somebody down...…….

I disagree LAman.  This is people saying, "I made something of myself, and this is how I did it.  Why can't you do it too?"

Quote
By Ukrainain standards what I am offering is quite a comfortable lifestyle
 

You are delusional.  It is a comfortable lifestyle for Ukrainian street urchins.

Trench, if you want a Ukrainian wife, my advice is this.  Increase your income to the point that you can afford to give the girl 1,000 pounds cash every month as an allowance for at least the first 2-3 years.  Tell her that you will pay the bills, provide food, and the necessities of life, and she has 1,000 pounds allowance a month to buy clothes, a new phone, send money to home, pay for her trips back home, etc.  I believe this will give her the middle class lifestyle she is likely expecting.  It's going to take 2 years for her to be able to get the language skills to get even a basic job.  This will give her reasonable expectations of the kind of life you can offer.  It may not be a life of luxury, but it is an improvement.

Quote
So roughly the first roughly 12k is tax free, hence why I'm happy earning 13k

In American terms, what you are doing is playing the system, but you don't know how to play the game and you are failing miserably.

Let me tell you some secrets.  The welfare trash who play the system figure out a way to earn money under the table, tax free.
They mow lawns for cash money, and don't declare it as income.
Some deal illegal drugs.
Some pick up aluminum cans to sell for recycling, or haul away scrap metal for people.
Farmers markets are another cash business.  You can make $40,000-$50,000 USD from an acre of blackberries, selling them at farmers markets.
With 75-100 beehives, if you know what you are doing you can make $40,000-$50,000 a year cash money.
A produce farmers told me that if he only had to grow one crop, he would grow asparagus.  You only work 3 weeks a year and make serious money.  That produce farmer and his wife usually sell $1500 a week at the farmers market, and they also have wholesale accounts to stores.
I know guys who mow lawns and plow snow in the winter who make over $50,000 cash a year, and pay no taxes.
I know a commercial beekeeper who has family work for him, cash under the table, he only sells his honey for cash, (usually wholesale or bulk - I know of cash sales he has made of $50K) and he declares virtually nothing on his taxes.  Between him and his wife, they have about 8 kids, and he gets welfare benefits for the kids because they are low income.  He clears a couple hundred thousand dollars a year after expenses.  Him and his wife have a brand new truck and SUV. His house and business property is in his parent's name. 

A Ukrainian woman will probably admire you if you have side income that you don't pay tax on.  She will think you are an ignorant fool if you refuse to earn money if you have to pay tax on it.

Quote
I am trying to move up in life but its not easy when nearly everyone else is trying to do the same also. Plus I am doing it single handed by not being in a couple, that is the problem of a lot of UK women they want the finished product there already baked not realising that a guy is on the same money they are on these day, that it often takes two to accomplish much at all.

You're making excuses for your laziness.
If you don't want to do something, you will find excuses why you can't do it.
If you want to make it happen, you'll find a way.
I used to do a bunch of eBaying on the side, and was clearing $8,000-$10,000 a year, tax-free.

Quote
Does that mean you 'failed' if your partner bails on the relationship?

Yes.

Quote
How does 'money' determine love? Do you love more when the other person has 'enough' money? I've seen plenty of people struggle( financially) to make relationship work. Yes, it could be a major reason for ending a relationship but to tell someone else, you will not find love because you don't make enough money?

Men typically choose mates equal or lower in socio-economic status. Women typically choose mates equal or higher in socio-economic status, and 4-5 years older.
When you tell a guy that he can not find love because he does not make enough money, it means that there are either no women equal or lower than him in socio-economic status, or else the cost of entry is too high for him to play the game. 
In Trench's case, he does not have the money to be able to afford the cost of importing a foreign bride, and even if he could, all he can offer is a life of poverty, and no woman is going to leave a life of poverty in Ukraine with all her family and friends to go to a life of poverty in the UK with no family, friends, a different language, with a man who just wants a sex-slave who will be barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen.

Just out of curiosity Trench, what was the income level of your father?  Were you raised on welfare?

I just had a scary thought.  Trench, do you still live with your parents?  Are you in one of those situations where your parents put their house in your name, and you have to take care of them until they die?  The 40 year old boy who won't grow up, living in the basement playing video games all the time, earning minimum wage, and dreams of a supermodel who will fall in love with him...
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 03, 2018, 09:50:05 AM
Beefarmer, it has a lot to do with the price of rice in China ;D

The thing you are missing here is that the UK & the US are geared very differently. The UK provides a lot of the basics free (paid through taxation) the US  does not. What you get in the US instead is the ability to earn higher earnings, i.e with which you get to pay for the stuff you would get by default in the UK.

In the UK for example a field will no doubt cost you more than in the US. The money you get from your crop will be less, you will have to compete with foreign competition and be squeezed by the big supermarkets on price. If your crop fails/dies you could be in a bad situation. In any case you would have to pay for replanting next year, machinery, etc. Believe me there are no easy answers here, if there were we would all be at it and that is probably likely to ruin the easy answer, lol.

No I do not live with my parents. Not that many houses have basements here. Some do bit I think the child living in basement is more a US phenomena. More people are living with theor parents as cost of housing is getting so high in some parts of the UK. So here even owning your own house is becoming a big deal.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on July 03, 2018, 09:57:31 AM

I was just speaking generally, not just you. Up a couple posts not sure Boe was speaking toward me, she used the word 'success', which to me should not be used here. When dealing with 2 different individuals, different minds, different cultures (usually in RWD), thoughts, emotions, feelings, love, even infatuation...… at what point does 'success' come into play. In a relationship it takes 2 individuals with different minds trying to work together and very easy for one or the other to want a change. Does that mean you 'failed' if your partner bails on the relationship?
 How does 'money' determine love? Do you love more when the other person has 'enough' money? I've seen plenty of people struggle( financially) to make relationship work. Yes, it could be a major reason for ending a relationship but to tell someone else, you will not find love because you don't make enough money?

Money doesn't determine love.  However, we're not speaking of kids just beginning life together here. 

Love takes time to grow.  It needs living together, knowing the rhythms of each others' lives, the positives and negatives of your beloved.  If financial stress exists from Day 1, I personally believe the chance of success is minimal.  Furthermore, UW who contemplate marrying foreigners are invariably looking for an upgrade in their lifestyle.  That is just reality.  They'd marry a local man if they wanted to continue to struggle.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: mhr7 on July 03, 2018, 10:01:38 AM
I am trying to move up in life but its not easy when nearly everyone else is trying to do the same also. Plus I am doing it single handed by not being in a couple, that is the problem of a lot of UK women they want the finished product there already baked not realising that a guy is on the same money they are on these day, that it often takes two to accomplish much at all. I don't know what you mean in trying to search for a wife in the laziest way possible? I'm trying to search for a wife in a way that is most efficient and hopefully will bring up what I want. If one strategy fails as it has done here then I learn from it and try and improve on it from what I learnt for next time.

By laziness I mean you're not doing the work it takes to land an FSUW. You always have excuses (see above), rationalizations and justifications. If you want something bad enough you don't give excuses or blame others, you just do it. You want a woman to leave her friends, family, and culture. You better be offering her the best you possibly can. You don't make enough to bring a woman into the country, start with that.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 03, 2018, 11:06:02 AM
there are a number of different categories of "personal features" that determine success
that when combined together produce a go/no go effect
like appearance, personality, wealth, age, etc.
a shortage in one feature can be offset by an abundance of another
as long as it totals up
but if you don't have any money you better be damned good looking

you're not the first person whose reach exceeded his grasp
come back to earth now trench
and look around you more
try different things, dating apps, etc.
just try more
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 03, 2018, 12:00:18 PM
Well, I think the wealth side of things will come along.

Meanwhile, a couple of the women I have recently been messaging seem to think there is a some way around getting a tourist visa; that their friends who are single have managed it or there is some Facebook group of Ukrainians that can assist you or whatever. They just don't seem to accept that it's highly unlikely if not impossible. To me I wonder if the are all talking BS and making out they have friends that have managed it. I seem to get the impression that they think there must be somehow around it. That if they talk of friends getting one then they will also. It's most peculiar.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 03, 2018, 12:27:43 PM
you NEVER want the woman to come to you
besides, who will pay for her ticket her meals, her ... ???
ohhhh she will.....

dream on Trench...
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 03, 2018, 12:37:01 PM
BTW, Amsterdam is now full of young Ukrainian women on the prowl
if they're buying their own ticket
they'll go to EU and not UK they can get a visa now!!
ya shouldn't have  Brexited
you cut off your supply of Ukrainian women
oops

trench buddy
some things just aren't meant to be
isn't there the female equivalent of you around there


if the odds are 100-to-1 of you finding a suitable partner where you live
then all you have to do is try to look 100 times
persistence is omnipotent

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 03, 2018, 12:47:49 PM
you NEVER want the woman to come to you
besides, who will pay for her ticket her meals, her ... ???
ohhhh she will.....

dream on Trench...

Yeah, well that was the issue with the last girl from last year that after just two separate weeks together neither of which was in her home town she was demanding that I get her a tourist visa so she can come see me in the UK. Supposedly so she could see where I live, see that I was not married & meet my siblings, etc. Of course I would have to stump up the cost of this from visa cost to flight costs, etc. For that early on in a relationship and with little chance of her getting a visa it seemed a ridiculous idea at that stage. She would not accept it though.

Well one of these girls I am currently communicatino with apparently wanted to visit her other half as they had been in a three year relationship together  Fair enough, well apparently he could not arrange it so they split up. I have still not heard why this exactly came about it sounds strange so I am fishing around some more. It looks like on the surface she may be open to a meet up on her home town I will press more on this in further correspondence. So we will see, she lives in another industrial dumpsk in Ukraine. I know what the score can be here from before so this should be interesting. Still seems interesting to me why so many seem to have the notion that they are all likely to get visas if they have a sponsoring party. I tell them it doesn't matter how rich the sponsoring guy is, they look at the girl's situation and whether she has 'proof' that she will return, otherwise girl can just leave it the moment she gets through customs, lol.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 03, 2018, 12:53:27 PM
BTW, Amsterdam is now full of young Ukrainian women on the prowl
if they're buying their own ticket
they'll go to EU and not UK they can get a visa now!!
ya shouldn't have  Brexited
you cut off your supply of Ukrainian women
oops

Not the case, even without Brexit they would not have got into the UK. Both the UK & the Rep of Ireland are non-shengen. Hence they were never included in the EU/Ukrainian visa agreement just Schengen EU countries.

Belive me even with the issues the Ukraine still has way more go in it than the UK dating market.

A lot of the reason we left the EU was because if this tupe of carry on by the EU, them making irresponsible policies. These women will no doubt get wit a guy there, hence get full EU citizenship then they can go straight to live & work in UK as a EU citizen. This could be happening in many a city across the EU. Some will genuinely like the guy many will most likely be unwittingly immigration mules.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 03, 2018, 01:01:04 PM
In fact Krimster you may have strayed across how they are getting in since we have not left the EU yet. Meanwhile their compatriots back in Ukraine who are not quite as sharp on the draw are wondering how they managed it, lol.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 03, 2018, 01:03:51 PM
you're right, forgot about that UK wasn't shenghen...

but they are all over the EU now doing their own hunting
apparently successfully from what I saw
even less likely you'll connect w/ one in the UK

what about the Polish women in UK everyone's so uptight about
do they live more numerously in certain regions
some of them might like a native over another Pole

dating might be difficult where you live
but expand your search
keep trying
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 03, 2018, 02:38:33 PM
you're right, forgot about that UK wasn't shenghen...

but they are all over the EU now doing their own hunting
apparently successfully from what I saw
even less likely you'll connect w/ one in the UK

what about the Polish women in UK everyone's so uptight about
do they live more numerously in certain regions
some of them might like a native over another Pole

dating might be difficult where you live
but expand your search
keep trying

Yeah, the EU are a pain in the arse. I think them dojng the EU/Ukraine visa thing they'be just created a bigger mess. It will impact most western guys looking to Ukraine on the search so not just us UK guys but also US, Canada, AUS, etc. Some women won't be able to leave their jobs or be able to survive long their without hooking up with a guy or illegal work of some kind. Most I think that desire to will make the journey, by foot if necessary. I know the girl I met last in Lviv told me the tourist visa was to make entry for illegal work easier since few Ukrainians had the money for tourism - made sense really AND the EU is openly participating in this! Outrageous. The EU is a complete nightmare.

Well, there is a big Polish community near me. When the Polish first started coming in I thought 'hey, this may be a good thing, access to lots of fit Polish birds, better than the UK offering'. However I quickly learned along with many other UK guys that they nearly always stick to their own. They are here to satisfy their own greed only and completely shit themselves off from the native English community. So it's pointless there. Even in Poland it was little joy though I think if you could make friends online prior to going it wyld probably be easier to pull their than in the UK. Poland was definitely not a quick hook up culture more family values and conservatism.

I think I might have figured the eyeing up thing before I left for my flight to the UK. I think you have to not look 'at all' until your like literally at the moment of passing each other, then suddenly look up an do you may catch her looking at you. Otherwise you get the look away in disdain look due to their conservative values I think. Women in Lviv were fortunately a world away from this and loved being checked out.

I noticed a youngish Polish female rail guard look at me smiling as I suddenly looked up just at the moment she passed. That's how I clocked it :D I think ::)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on July 03, 2018, 06:11:38 PM
Yeah, the EU are a pain in the arse. I think them dojng the EU/Ukraine visa thing they'be just created a bigger mess. It will impact most western guys looking to Ukraine on the search so not just us UK guys but also US, Canada, AUS, etc. Some women won't be able to leave their jobs or be able to survive long their without hooking up with a guy or illegal work of some kind. Most I think that desire to will make the journey, by foot if necessary. I know the girl I met last in Lviv told me the tourist visa was to make entry for illegal work easier since few Ukrainians had the money for tourism - made sense really AND the EU is openly participating in this! Outrageous. The EU is a complete nightmare.

Well, there is a big Polish community near me. When the Polish first started coming in I thought 'hey, this may be a good thing, access to lots of fit Polish birds, better than the UK offering'. However I quickly learned along with many other UK guys that they nearly always stick to their own. They are here to satisfy their own greed only and completely shit themselves off from the native English community. So it's pointless there. Even in Poland it was little joy though I think if you could make friends online prior to going it wyld probably be easier to pull their than in the UK. Poland was definitely not a quick hook up culture more family values and conservatism.


Trenchcoat, you are beyond stupid, naive and or challenged. Women from Ukraine are not walking to the West of Europe to escape. Nor are they so desperate to find a man such as you.

Those women from the former Soviet Union in Western Europe will seek a partner that affords them respect and kindness. You will not find them behind red lights in Amsterdam or Rotterdam. If they find a life abroad so be it. Yes I have met Ukraine and Russian women in Amsterdam but they have good jobs and often partners who are equals there. If you want to meet them I would suggest the eatery Nevi.

Trenchcoat you are incapable of nurturing a gold fish let alone another human being. You have this illusion of being some white knight on a horse when the reality is you do not even have an ass.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on July 03, 2018, 07:23:08 PM
I noticed a youngish Polish female rail guard look at me smiling as I suddenly looked up just at the moment she passed.


You let her go? You were supposed to chase after her.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 03, 2018, 09:25:20 PM
You let her go? You were supposed to chase after her.

She passed by me quickly plus I am at a loss of what to say on the hoof. I would have literally had to jump up and either run after her or shout out aloud, both of which would make me look like someone who is a bit mental. I would assume that would have killed it anyway.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: rwd123 on July 03, 2018, 10:59:58 PM
Oh, man. This is bleak but true - no money, no honey.

Why would a woman give up her family and friends for a degraded quality of living? For an Englishman? To "escape" Ukraine? Gimme a break.

International romance is not for skinflints. Everything costs money. It only gets more expensive once you get engaged, and even more so when you get married, and a metric tonnage more once you have children. Now if you had the looks of David Beckham or the humour of Ali G then maybe you'd have more luck. But that's not going to happen.

Forget Lviv, figure out a way to triple your income. Then start looking. Increasing hours is not a good idea because that means less time with a future wife when she needs your time the most. Your best bet is probably to move to Eastern Europe and teach English. If not then your chances may waver between Buckley's and none.

Sorry to be so negative but sometimes reality sucks. Start earning more money.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 03, 2018, 11:42:33 PM
Oh, man. This is bleak but true - no money, no honey.

Why would a woman give up her family and friends for a degraded quality of living? For an Englishman? To "escape" Ukraine? Gimme a break.

International romance is not for skinflints. Everything costs money. It only gets more expensive once you get engaged, and even more so when you get married, and a metric tonnage more once you have children. Now if you had the looks of David Beckham or the humour of Ali G then maybe you'd have more luck. But that's not going to happen.

Forget Lviv, figure out a way to triple your income. Then start looking. Increasing hours is not a good idea because that means less time with a future wife when she needs your time the most. Your best bet is probably to move to Eastern Europe and teach English. If not then your chances may waver between Buckley's and none.

Sorry to be so negative but sometimes reality sucks. Start earning more money.

This is something I agree with you on. No real chance of me doing it until next year at the earliest though as need to get independent income sorted as a backup. Main problem I find with dating sites is that I am wary as to the motive of some of the women - that they are looking at immigration as the main thing. The ideal for me would be to live in an area and really get to know the women.

As you say working much more is a false economy. I prefer to use the 10 hour extra time off the standard 40 hour week to find other was to boost my income. That and as you said it is handy for time with future wife. Leaving a girl hanging out there for too long in the week for her to get bored and other guys to prey upon is not a good idea I think. I find a lot of the Polish guys that come to the UK fall into the trap of getting greedy and working all hours under the sun. Needless to say their relationships suffer.

So I think I need to work on making the whole package a bit more attractive. I think this will come along in the next year or so but at my age I can't afford to wait so need to at least look around in the meantime and get a bit more action in :)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: northkape on July 04, 2018, 01:45:25 AM
This is something I agree with you on. No real chance of me doing it until next year at the earliest though as need to get independent income sorted as a backup. Main problem I find with dating sites is that I am wary as to the motive of some of the women - that they are looking at immigration as the main thing. The ideal for me would be to live in an area and really get to know the women.

I think this will come along in the next year or so but at my age I can't afford to wait so need to at least look around in the meantime and get a bit more action in

The end of the RWD Trench saga?
I haven't read all of his writings, but it appears to me, that with all his strange analytics, he understands even less now, than he did when starting out.
Action is doing it, not talking about it. Trench seems to find more satisfaction in the latter part, here on RWD.

In an ordinary society, it is commonly phrased, "there is one for everyone".
In Ukraine and other struggling societies, there are however, in my opinion, multiples of one for every western man.
But for Trench, one can start wondering, or rather conclude, that for every rule there is an exception.
 
Through the years, I have seen a lot of ordinary men in ordinary jobs, finding and marrying with good looking Ukraine women.
These men didn't read any forums or have any strategy before starting out, they just married a Ukraine woman from a dating site or a marriage agency.
I never heard about a singel one of these women being a "gold digger" or marrying for a passport.
Economic struggles yes, stupid men and bitches yes, divorces before and after passport yes, but in general mostly the same as Norwegian marriages. 
From what I have seen, these Ukraine women tried within reason, to avoid divorcing, especially when children were involved.
They are generally hard working, and when struggling economically, thrifty and creative in finding new sources of income. Much more so, than native women here.

Rather the opposite of the analytic conclusions of Mr. Tench
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Davo2 on July 04, 2018, 02:09:15 AM
Maybe read this Trench ... I'm not entirely sure it's accurate, but after many discussions with friends and family, defending the path I'm considering, now I just send them this link.... It seems to calm their fears about women's motives and is much less frustrating, when fighting against the common fsu stereotype.


"Now try to analyze these treacherous women without a heart who seek a VISA on your back. Most of them have a job, a house, friends, family, a certain number of strong ties to their country. To immigrate, she must quit her job, sell her car, end her lease, sell her apartment, leaving family, friends, learn a new language from a country with a new mentality. All this for what? For a visa ...

I think you give too much importance to your passport. Ask yourself the question, would you do this for a passport?"


http://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.cqmi.ca/en/russian-dating-news-cqmi/item/403-if-you-marry-a-russian-or-ukrainian-woman-beware-you-will-get-ripped-off-cqmi/amp
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 04, 2018, 04:58:54 AM
Maybe read this Trench ... I'm not entirely sure it's accurate, but after many discussions with friends and family, defending the path I'm considering, now I just send them this link.... It seems to calm their fears about women's motives and is much less frustrating, when fighting against the common fsu stereotype.


"Now try to analyze these treacherous women without a heart who seek a VISA on your back. Most of them have a job, a house, friends, family, a certain number of strong ties to their country. To immigrate, she must quit her job, sell her car, end her lease, sell her apartment, leaving family, friends, learn a new language from a country with a new mentality. All this for what? For a visa ...

I think you give too much importance to your passport. Ask yourself the question, would you do this for a passport?"


http://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www.cqmi.ca/en/russian-dating-news-cqmi/item/403-if-you-marry-a-russian-or-ukrainian-woman-beware-you-will-get-ripped-off-cqmi/amp

I don't think all FSW are scammers and many may no doubt be after the real deal. What a woman is giving up may vary, the last girl from last year was in the way in a cramped apartment with her brother, sister in law (who she did not get on with) and little nephew. They probably wanted another child but difficult with her taking up room there. Meanwhile her mother lived way out of town making living with her unviabe work wise. I got the impression from a photo it was kind of rural and living there would be tantamount to deciding to live like a nun just nothing to do all day other that toil in the garden.

So I don't think she had a lot to leave behind, she even seemed unconcerned about it, which surprised me. The long hours she worked in her retail job would no doubt not be missed, lol. Which was why she surprised me that she was being so difficult about getting together again. Sure she may have been suspicious of me but she wasn't exactly in a great situation to make impulsive judgements of someone she could get away from all that with.

TwO ladies I have been messaging recently, one got divorced from her husband in the US before she could obtain a green card and one finished a three year relationship with a UK guy after he admitted he could not meet the marriage visa requirements - the 18.6k, so in a worse position that I, lol. Either of these could be Red Flags or neither, but it will raise doubts in most guys minds I think. What if second girl is just looking for a guy to get her into the UK then hook up with guy who was incapable of managing it, thereby doing the work for him, etc. It may not be the case but it's difficult not to thunk of it as a concern, etc.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 04, 2018, 06:01:50 AM
"I got the impression from a photo it was kind of rural and living there would be tantamount to deciding to live like a nun just nothing to do all day other that toil in the garden."

ahhhh, toiling in the garden
you basically just described Ukrainian village life

and THIS is why Ukrainian villages are the BEST place to hunt!
strong muscular farm girls out toiling in the sun...
clean em up, and they are the goddess of Eros incarnate
yummy....



Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on July 04, 2018, 09:47:16 AM
I'm not entirely sure it's accurate, but after many discussions with friends and family, defending the path I'm considering, now I just send them this link.... It seems to calm their fears about women's motives and is much less frustrating, when fighting against the common fsu stereotype.


Many of your friends and family have been educated by television and newspapers. Do not fault them for their beliefs that FSU women are bad news. I didn't defend my decision to meet someone overseas. I told them you have to wait and see and then judge for themselves. I married a quality woman. People are blown away with who I married. My family tells me to not lose her and my friends say I'm the go to guy for advice if they become single. Choose wisely and everything will be alright.

In an ordinary society, it is commonly phrased, "there is one for everyone".
In Ukraine and other struggling societies, there are however, in my opinion, multiples of one for every western man.


There is someone for everyone but what are the chances of finding someone out of a billion people? So many people go lonely and never find that someone. Women can be choosy. Why do many women have affairs with married men? Although many women want a man for their own, if they can't find him and as a cure for loneliness, they prefer to share a winner with another woman than the have sole possession of a loser.


Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 04, 2018, 11:43:26 AM
" but what are the chances of finding someone out of a billion people? "

oh, oh! I know!
one divided by a billion!
one over ten to the ninth
a billion people, a billion different stories
they all basically end the same way
becomes pretty predictable after awhile
it's why I instead prefer the company of squirrels
and feed them peanuts in the back yard
so they will trust me
and come closer and closer each time
they eat a peanut
hehehehehehehehehehehehe
squirrels...






Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: ML on July 04, 2018, 02:16:32 PM
" but what are the chances of finding someone out of a billion people? "

oh, oh! I know!
one divided by a billion!


Totally false calculation of the relevant probability.

'Someone' does not indicate just 'one' person.

Your calculation would be like someone asking what was the chance of getting a one when a die is tossed 10 times; and giving the answer of 1 divided by 10.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 04, 2018, 03:21:10 PM
"'Someone' does not indicate just 'one' person."

i dunno sounds pretty singular to me!

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on July 04, 2018, 06:05:55 PM
She passed by me quickly plus I am at a loss of what to say on the hoof. I would have literally had to jump up and either run after her or shout out aloud, both of which would make me look like someone who is a bit mental. I would assume that would have killed it anyway.

You do an upstanding job of being a bit mental on this forum.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Anotherkiwi on July 04, 2018, 06:30:57 PM
...Your best bet is probably to move to Eastern Europe and teach English.

Aaaaargh!!!!  :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat: :cluebat:

No!  NO!!  A thousand times NO!!!

His English is occasionally so wretched on this forum that I sometimes don't have the remotest idea what he is burbling on about and, in any case, his spelling is often totally crappy.  If it's because he's too lazy to correct the mistakes made by predictive text on his phone, then that simply typifies his whole approach of rushing in where angels fear to tread.

I was hoping that we had put the whole "English teacher" nonsense to bed months ago, especially since he doesn't have any sort of teaching qualification.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 04, 2018, 07:26:10 PM
when you hear someone say "teaching English" in the FSU
what "teaching English" really means is complete lack of any useful job skill
to make money there and not enough savings to be independent
so just talking in English to someone
will somehow be worth money...

it's kinda magic just speak English
and you can "make it rain" down here

why doesn't everyone just speak English
think how much wealthier the world would be




Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Davo2 on July 04, 2018, 09:05:29 PM
My mother is a retired French and English teacher. My ex has taught Japanese and my daughter works as an sso with aboriginal kids who come from the out back camps to the city. She's learning several of the common dialects, to teach them English.

This I do know, you can't teach English to the French, Japanese or even aboriginals, without first having a high competency in the language of the people you teach. Maybe if you're only teaching people who are competent or advanced in English you can,  but you are losing most of your customers if you cater only to  those  people.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: DaveNY on July 04, 2018, 09:29:26 PM
My mother is a retired French and English teacher. My ex has taught Japanese and my daughter works as an sso with aboriginal kids who come from the out back camps to the city. She's learning several of the common dialects, to teach them English.

This I do know, you can't teach English to the French, Japanese or even aboriginals, without first having a high competency in the language of the people you teach. Maybe if you're only teaching people who are competent or advanced in English you can,  but you are losing most of your customers if you cater only to  those  people.

Davo2 I taught English in Moscow for about 15 months. Most of the English teachers I meant had very little knowledge of Russian, including myself. I taught mostly beginners and intermediate learners.

In China there are literally thousands of people teaching English, probably including some Aussies. I've seen the ads there's no requirement the English teachers speak any Chinese.   
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: ML on July 04, 2018, 09:29:52 PM
This I do know, you can't teach English to the French, Japanese or even aboriginals, without first having a high competency in the language of the people you teach.

Totally untrue.

Imagine . . . in USA (and probably similar in most other countries) there are courses in ESL (English as second language).  These courses have perhaps persons from 15 or more different first languages.

So you are saying the teacher will be unsuccessful unless he/she is highly competent in each of those 15 different languages?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 04, 2018, 10:34:59 PM
Indeed, during my weekend TEFL training it was explained that knowing the language of the learner was not necessary, in fact it could be detrimental. Instead the idea was to get the learner used to communicating in the language being taught. Initially this would be done by pointing to pictures and later by exercises.

That said though I think a few words of the language of the country you are in can help you feel more comfortable. I always feel a bit ignorant not knowing much Russian and almost imposing my English upon the natives. So I think approaching the teaching knowing a bit of Russian I would probably feel more at ease and confident even if it is unnecessary.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Davo2 on July 04, 2018, 10:38:29 PM
Point taken on the above comments, but it must be an excruciating slow exercise when teaching someone with no English skills?

I based my comments on my experiences with family here as school teachers. My mother also acted as a English teacher / interpreter for some young French farmers in an exchange program, they knew all of 5 words of English. I can't see how someone who couldn't communicate at all with them, would be a very efficient teacher?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Davo2 on July 04, 2018, 10:46:52 PM
I always feel a bit ignorant not knowing much Russian.

I tried for a good 6 months. She would send voice recording of basic sentences in English and Russian . I started understanding some words, but for he life of me couldn't pronounce 90℅ of it, even when she slowed it down to 1/4 speed ... I think our slow drawl accent makes it harder, there were sounds my mouth couldn't make after many embarrassing attempts. It took me 3 weeks to pronounce her name correctly ;)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: rwd123 on July 04, 2018, 10:53:31 PM
I was hoping that we had put the whole "English teacher" nonsense to bed months ago, especially since he doesn't have any sort of teaching qualification.
The pertinent point is moving to Eastern Europe. Even for as little as three months. With lack of capital or business skills English teaching is merely a default option. Unless a university degree is a requirement to teach, then it's inexpensive to obtain accreditation. (This is generic advice too, not just for Trenchcoat)

Another option (pending finances) is to study at a university. Take a language course. Dorm rooms are cheap, so is tuition. Could do that anywhere from a month in a summer school to a couple of years. You'd pick up invaluable language skills and cultural immersion. Rent out your home if necessary for money. Be there not for the women, but for the experience. You'll meet women. But it comes back to my first point; no money, no honey.

Almost any guy can land a girl in a big city if he spends a year there. A foreigner has a certain allure. You will get attention, good and bad.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Davo2 on July 04, 2018, 11:27:18 PM
Most of the English teachers I meant had very little knowledge of Russian, including myself. I taught mostly beginners and intermediate learners.


Where did you begin with someone who knows no English at all?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: DaveNY on July 04, 2018, 11:29:05 PM
Point taken on the above comments, but it must be an excruciating slow exercise when teaching someone with no English skills?

I based my comments on my experiences with family here as school teachers. My mother also acted as a English teacher / interpreter for some young French farmers in an exchange program, they knew all of 5 words of English. I can't see how someone who couldn't communicate at all with them, would be a very efficient teacher?

It really isn't as hard as you think. Some teachers had TESOL Certificates or other types of certificates for teaching English as a foreign language. I have a Msc and taught for several hundred hours in university. Granted everyone I taught spoke English and I taught math and physics not English but I had significant teaching experience. I really felt sorry for those with no teaching experience or training. Especially if they weren't outgoing. Those teachers usually didn't last too long.

Each school was a little different. In my school each Russian student was given a course outline in Russian so they knew what was expected. Teaching the alphabet was easy. Point to the letter and say it have the students say it. If you wanted a particular student to say it you used their name. If you wanted the students to repeat something you motion for them to repeat it by making a circle.

Teaching individual words was easy enough. The word was broken down into syllables and each syllable was repeated. Students repeated the word until they got it right. Sentences were repeated until the sentences vaguely resembled something I said. Many schools gave/sold the students tapes to practice with at home.

My wife was a teacher so she taught me a few words that helped. I also taught several special classes at her school. She translated some of her lessons into English and I taught the class after school. The classes were for senior students who wanted to go to an English speaking university. My teaching the class gave them a sense of what they faced if they went to university in the UK, US or other English speaking country. I did 8 classes over the course of a year. First class my wife was joined by her principal, department head and several other staff. All standing against the back wall. By the 3rd class everyone was gone except my wife and even she wasn't in the class all the time. We did a Q&A after class. I think the students enjoyed that the most.     

At the English language schools the students, even the young kids, were well behaved there were few discipline problems. If the teachers or students really didn't understand something there was always a manager or staff member who spoke Russian and English. 
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: mhr7 on July 05, 2018, 12:20:38 AM
when you hear someone say "teaching English" in the FSU
what "teaching English" really means is complete lack of any useful job skill
to make money there and not enough savings to be independent
so just talking in English to someone
will somehow be worth money...

it's kinda magic just speak English
and you can "make it rain" down here

why doesn't everyone just speak English
think how much wealthier the world would be

Languages aren't learned or taught by just talking. There's much more to it than that, I haven't learned Russian by just speaking to the natives. Do you think you could teach the finer points of grammar?  Could you teach a Russian to use articles or the perfect tense?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 05, 2018, 08:10:53 AM
look if you foreigners are tryin to earn some bucks in Ukraine, forget “teaching English”
you might as well wait at an intersection on some random ulitsa and wash someone’s windshield for a couplea hryvnia

two words...

real estate

lots of ways to profit from real estate in Ukraine
even without investing any of your own money!
do you know what the requirements are for being a real estate sales agent in Ukraine?
NOTHING!
if you can say “I’m a sales agent” then ipso facto you are one, and for $2 you can put an ad in the local gazetta and print up some business cards for another $30 add a phone and you have the basics for a business there

congrats!  you’re now a sales agent

of course, Ukraine is currently in a down cycle
but an example of the kind of money you CAN MAKE in an up cycle
consider that instead of being an agent you instead want to be a “flipper"
in 2001 I bought a large “un-built” apartment for $45,000
un-built means bare concrete floors/walls/ceiling no wiring or plumbing
just plenty of concrete walls and supporting columns and a ventilation duct + windows cut out
it cost me an additional $45,000 to have a contractor complete it to furniture move in ready
I sold this apartment in 2007 for $270,000
and had it rent-free for 6 yrs as well

BTW, it’s also risky as hell
I followed local pattern of conducting transactions in cash
does handling hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash in Ukraine make you nervous?
it’s a complete layer of stacks of $10,000 in hundred dollar bills on the bottom of a small carry-on sized suitcase
(only way to transport this)
and then all aboard for the Kyiv to Berlin express train that leaves bright and early in the mornin
and slowly winds its way West to Poland, which you will reach by early evening and Berlin the following mournin
don’t forget to fill out the cash declaration form at Kennedy when you fly in from Berlin
mark it from “Private House Sale - Personal Residence”
tax free

Krimster Towers Luxury Sevastopol Living





Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on July 05, 2018, 08:13:19 AM
Plenty of immigrants come to America knowing no English. Mix bag of various immigrants goes to the same English class. Their teacher probably doesn't know their language. Teaching can be done probably with lots of pictures. I suspect it would be easier if the teacher knew English and the language of their students.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 05, 2018, 09:17:05 AM
Ukraine has a great deal of natural beauty to warm the soul
but for Homo Sapiens it’s an awful soul crushing place to live
grandmothers on homemade stoolchiks sellin kartoshkie for $4-$5 a day
to help feed their grandkids kinda place to live
you seem em all on the outskirts of the bolshoi market where they don’t have to pay “krisha"
you see them in the darkness and in the snow and rain
sometimes you think you can feel their pain

to survive there you have to acquire a skill called “ignoring reality”
you look but you no longer see
so you no longer feel
being numb is better than the pain that follows being too observant

still, in spite of it all
there is no redemption...
and all who are born
are born to fall

fin
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 05, 2018, 11:20:51 AM
Hey, anyone know the easiest way to add money to a Lifecell account? I've tried in both Ukraine & UK with my bank cards but no joy. It either gets stuck on the loading screen or tells me I've been unsuccessful and to contact my bank.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 05, 2018, 11:34:32 AM
Welcome to my world ..

CANNOT pay for RU stuff online with VISA or MasterCard drawn on UK banks ..even using an Russian IP

Try making a Ukrainian IP address connection and see if that works ...

Unless you are actually paying for someone else's mobile, Trench - why can't you wait until you are IN Ukraine and pay via a shop / terminal ?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on July 05, 2018, 11:48:43 AM
He might have to pay 20 or even 50 hryvnia more as a foreigner.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 05, 2018, 12:09:36 PM
Welcome to my world ..

CANNOT pay for RU stuff online with VISA or MasterCard drawn on UK banks ..even using an Russian IP

Try making a Ukrainian IP address connection and see if that works ...

Unless you are actually paying for someone else's mobile, Trench - why can't you wait until you are IN Ukraine and pay via a shop / terminal ?

Cheers Moby :D I'll give that a try. Generally I like to be prepared in advance so I can get reception/internet from the moment I arrive. When in Lviv I tried to add money through the internet site but no joy, it just kept on the wait screen thinking about it so I aborted in the end as obviously nothing was happening. So just wondering why so difficult, online it says it takes foreign bank cards.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on July 05, 2018, 02:03:14 PM
Hey, anyone know the easiest way to add money to a Lifecell account? I've tried in both Ukraine & UK with my bank cards but no joy. It either gets stuck on the loading screen or tells me I've been unsuccessful and to contact my bank.

It needs to be paid in cash in Ukraine.
It cannot be done via internet unless a Ukraine debit card.  FULL STOP.
The easiest non hassle way is to buy scratch cards while you are there and use as needed ---  or pay enough for monthly deductions anticipated until projected return.
The number should be good for a year -even without adding funds -- so you can still receive sms etc

Alternatively -- and most relevant in 2018 -- use the number for Viber,What's App etc .and you can receive calls and sms there.Obviously enough -you can call and text that way also.
On Skype -I have paid subscription  on one account-- and my id shown when I call landline or mobile is my Ukraine number .I can call any number via that method. Viber also has paid subscription to do much the same.

Dare I add -- you need someone in Ukraine to go to a booth ( in many places -airports,shopping centres,banks etc) and follow prompts.Even in a Lifecell store --cash is required for pre-paid account.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 05, 2018, 02:37:11 PM
It needs to be paid in cash in Ukraine.
It cannot be done via internet unless a Ukraine debit card.  FULL STOP.
The easiest non hassle way is to buy scratch cards while you are there and use as needed ---  or pay enough for monthly deductions anticipated until projected return.
The number should be good for a year -even without adding funds -- so you can still receive sms etc

Alternatively -- and most relevant in 2018 -- use the number for Viber,What's App etc .and you can receive calls and sms there.Obviously enough -you can call and text that way also.
On Skype -I have paid subscription  on one account-- and my id shown when I call landline or mobile is my Ukraine number .I can call any number via that method. Viber also has paid subscription to do much the same.

Dare I add -- you need someone in Ukraine to go to a booth ( in many places -airports,shopping centres,banks etc) and follow prompts.Even in a Lifecell store --cash is required for pre-paid account.

Thanks Jay, most appreciate your input. It sounds then that scratch cards would be best for me then. I saw some yellow lifecell boxes when walking around in Lviv so perhaps they dispensed  them.

Other option I guess would be for me to open a bank account with a bank in Ukraine to get one of their debit cards. Is this a simple process for a foreigner?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 05, 2018, 02:39:45 PM
Those using  SKYPE / Viber / Whatsapp's prepaid call plans just haven't done their homework ...

There are FAR better specialist cos offering numbers in your home and intended state of visiting

I have  FREE US , Moscow, and UK numbers and can pay for short-term fixed line numbers in most states - save Belarus.. 

It costs me NOTHING to receive calls from these numbers.


EDITED to ADD:

One can get a Ukraine 94 -- Intertelecom number for 2 USD / month that will call your US / UK Oz', etc. mobile ( cell) / tablet / computer - the caller in UA pays the going rate from their network provider

A Ukraine national call number (89) costs $2/ month

Kyiv $5/ month

I just buy a local data sim and pop it in my unlocked MiFi device .. NO need to buy a local calls sim and put it in your mobile ( cell)

NO problems relying on friends to top me up or losing a number through inactivity - and it can be topped up from anywhere using paypal / debit / credit card

 
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 05, 2018, 02:54:17 PM
In all honesty for me it more the mobile Internet data allowance I'm interested in so I can use the taxi apps to get cheaper taxi's and also to use Google maps and look up stuff. It's just handy the calls are included in the monthly bundle.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on July 05, 2018, 02:58:02 PM
Thanks Jay, most appreciate your input. It sounds then that scratch cards would be best for me then. I saw some yellow lifecell boxes when walking around in Lviv so perhaps they dispensed  them.

Other option I guess would be for me to open a bank account with a bank in Ukraine to get one of their debit cards. Is this a simple process for a foreigner?
It is not a simple process for a foreigner to open a Ukraine bank account.Best to forget that idea .

There were many places selling scratch cards -- for some reason there does not seem as many now. I also had a problem buying larger denomination as you could previously --  so it is a moving stage.


As for Mr know it all---  I was going to add in my original post that the paid subscription I still use --is not used so often these days.
BUT -- it allows me to make unlimited calls and amount of time to numerous countries - both landline and mobiles .I use extensively for calls - both local and international at no extra cost -- and even to areas where I do pay--it is a competitive rate.
What is most significant --is that you can use your own system ANYWHERE that you can get internet access--   so it is as much about convenience that does not require phone access and excessive costs ,plus the saving of time in trying to get organised.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on July 05, 2018, 03:01:48 PM
In all honesty for me it more the mobile Internet data allowance I'm interested in so I can use the taxi apps to get cheaper taxi's and also to use Google maps and look up stuff. It's just handy the calls are included in the monthly bundle.

FWIW --that is an example of exactly my point above --- you can access airport free wi-fi --then use as I explained above to call taxi etc --sure -you may succeed with app -- but....................

Using all the systems I explained -- covers the bases and applies everywhere !
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 05, 2018, 03:05:49 PM


As for Mr know it all---  I was going to add in my original post that the paid subscription I still use --is not used so often these days.
BUT -- it allows me to make unlimited calls and amount of time to numerous countries - both landline and mobiles .I use extensively for calls - both local and international at no extra cost -- and even to areas where I do pay--it is a competitive rate.
What is most significant --is that you can use your own system ANYWHERE that you can get internet access--   so it is as much about convenience that does not require phone access and excessive costs ,plus the saving of time in trying to get organised.


OK.. so what DO you pay for something you don't use much ? ...SKYPE don't offer a package that includes UA mobiles / Cell / landline calls ( in the UK, anyway) in the monthly cost - they are extra..

So WHY pay so much ?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 05, 2018, 03:07:31 PM
Yeah, it's a pain that the top up process is not a bit more straight forward. I think I'll just go with hunting down these scratch cards for the moment and perhaps they will sort out being able to use the foreign bank cards along the way at some point.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 05, 2018, 03:19:09 PM
Yeah, it's a pain that the top up process is not a bit more straight forward. I think I'll just go with hunting down these scratch cards for the moment and perhaps they will sort out being able to use the foreign bank cards along the way at some point.

Or just pay for an Intertelecom (94)  UA mobile number - using a UK bank card online - before you leave ...Get a THREE Mifi device (free ) on a small contract -  and it will work for DATA in UA - as it is unlocked ...    More secure than using dodgy airport wifi

 You only need to top up your data sim and you receive calls to your UK mobile and your +38094 number shows when you dial out - using an app - no roaming
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on July 05, 2018, 03:22:58 PM

OK.. so what DO you pay for something you don't use much ? ...SKYPE don't offer a package that includes UA mobiles / Cell / landline calls ( in the UK, anyway) in the monthly cost - they are extra..

So WHY pay so much ?



I still use it to call many other countries  -- I started  many years ago when it was pre some of the other options available now.
It is still cheaper to use to call than some other options.
Going back some time -- amongst many reasons to use it -calls internally were free -these days phone calls are a lot cheaper that in years past.We went from huge $ number ($10K+ per month) to only hundreds when we started  using VOIP .
If purely for Ukraine today  --Viber paid is a much better option that allows calls to all numbers --plus--of course - if you have your Ukraine number at head - they can always call you back .

While I think of it -- the mobile UKR does not even need to be switched on -- although -obviously enough - best it is if you want to be called back. Viber,What'sApp etc are widespread and increasing rapidly in Ukraine-- both personal and business use .I get incoming calls from numbers I have never called --but user has tried Viber etc call on the fly.



Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 05, 2018, 03:31:25 PM
JayH

First you mentioned Skype - MUCH more expensive than the cos I use

Now you've mentioned Viber ?!

http://account.viber.com/en/call-ukraine (http://account.viber.com/en/call-ukraine)

They want 23 Euro / month for 200 mins or 5 % Euro / month for 27 mins to LANDLINE numbers..



Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 05, 2018, 04:11:33 PM
Well it looks like the mifi deal I would pay around £9 a month on a contract. Compared to that it would be just 100 UAH  (about £3) for the month deal on Lifecell. So I'm guessing a scratchcard would still be a cheaper deal for me and less to cart around.

I notice there are other mobile operators, Kyivstar,  etc are they any easier on top up, decent deal?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on July 05, 2018, 04:21:40 PM
Well it looks like the mifi deal I would pay around £9 a month on a contract. Compared to that it would be just 100 UAH  (about £3) for the month deal on Lifecell. So I'm guessing a scratchcard would still be a cheaper deal for me and less to cart around.

I notice there are other mobile operators, Kyivstar,  etc are they any easier on top up, decent deal?

Life  UAH69 per month on pre-paid maintains number and allows calls and data access.  I top up asap when there usually  100 per week is enough. There is widespread free wi-fi access available in many places now and is increasing all the time.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on July 05, 2018, 04:30:18 PM
JayH

First you mentioned Skype - MUCH more expensive than the cos I use

Now you've mentioned Viber ?!

http://account.viber.com/en/call-ukraine (http://account.viber.com/en/call-ukraine)

They want 23 Euro / month for 200 mins or 5 % Euro / month for 27 mins to LANDLINE numbers..

Needless to say the obvious has to be spelt out for your argumentative self  -- I was advocating the use of alternative systems in the absence ( eg out of credit)  of local phone data/call capability . As an example I gave -at the  moment of arrival it saves the hassle of HAVING to do this at the airport so that you can get to accommodation -- where once again -- if going to a hotel you only need an address !!  While if an apartment -- you will be making calls to get access and potentially standing around knee deep in snow getting frigged about !!

PS  -- my Viber paid calls are cheap -- and top up nothing like the numbers you quote
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 05, 2018, 04:34:00 PM
Think I may have possibly found the solution. It looks like I may be able to do the payment with a foreign card to Lifecell through a third party called Portmone so I will give that a try tomorrow.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 05, 2018, 04:56:05 PM
...saves the hassle of HAVING to do this at the airport so that you can get to accommodation -- where once again -- if going to a hotel you only need an address !!  While if an apartment -- you will be making calls to get access and potentially standing around knee deep in snow getting frigged about !!

Yep had a bit of that on my Lviv trip just without the snow, lol. At the time though it was no laughing matter and while I fit it sorted in the end I could have been left high and dry. It's the last bit of my trip to tell you guys about which I will do so shortly. Suffice to say it was an ordeal and shows how you really need to have eyes in the back of your head with these apartment owners.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 05, 2018, 05:15:30 PM
"Try making a Ukrainian IP address connection and see if that works ..."

get a VPN or TOR router there are I believe a few free-online ones that can route all your internet through a particular country
to "spoof" the server

I buy my online stuff using a preloaded debit visa card in case someone steals the card info
just get a new preloaded one

this way i don't have to do all the identity theft stuff
WHEN it gets "jacked"

more and more vendors are accepting bitcoin
you are location independent with bitcoin transactions
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on July 05, 2018, 07:56:18 PM
"Try making a Ukrainian IP address connection and see if that works ..."

get a VPN or TOR router there are I believe a few free-online ones that can route all your internet through a particular country
to "spoof" the server



Card needs to be issued by Ukrainian institution  -- in case you missed that part!!
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 05, 2018, 11:44:25 PM
Needless to say the obvious has to be spelt out for your argumentative self  -- I was advocating the use of alternative systems in the absence ( eg out of credit)  of local phone data/call capability . As an example I gave -at the  moment of arrival it saves the hassle of HAVING to do this at the airport so that you can get to accommodation -- where once again -- if going to a hotel you only need an address !!  While if an apartment -- you will be making calls to get access and potentially standing around knee deep in snow getting frigged about !!

PS  -- my Viber paid calls are cheap -- and top up nothing like the numbers you quote

Oh JayH, why don't you read your own posts ? 

Why can't you just learn something- rather that suggesting someone who really DOES know better is being 'argumentative' ?

Look, you've proved to me that you felt the need to 'defend' the fact that you waste money with Skype, lurched to suggesting Viber was better for Ukraine and when I post a Viber link for EU clients - showing it is expensive - compared to local deals in UA - y you suggest you pay less...

Let's have the link to 'your' package ...

Let's help each other save money and be able to 'top up' using our home nation's bank cards

Trench - as normal - now has a UK based solution - but has done his own 'research'  :deadhorse:





Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on July 06, 2018, 12:03:44 AM
YAWN :cluebat: :barf: :puke: :puke:
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 06, 2018, 12:30:31 AM
YAWN

Typical JayH when he knows he is WRONG...  :deadhorse:

All you had to do was post ANY link to demonstrate your 'assertion' of SKYPE / VIBER being 'cheaper' for you ....

This subject is important for those who travel frequently to a former FSU nation and who might want to have a local number that works when in the west - and can be easily topped up - for less

IF you'd rather pay more than accepting you could learn something from me ;) ....



Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on July 06, 2018, 01:13:13 AM
YAWN :cluebat: :barf: :puke: :puke:
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 06, 2018, 05:12:42 AM
"Card needs to be issued by Ukrainian institution  -- in case you missed that part!!"
“online it says it takes foreign bank cards.” -- in case YOU missed that part!!


gosh Jay, your information is out of date!
we should seek help from someone with more recent experience than Jay's



Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 06, 2018, 11:19:32 AM
Well guys I've tried Portmone and no joy, seems the transaction won't go through with any of my foreign (UK, etc) Bank cards there either. Its a bit silly really these places saying they take them then don't. There's one or two other third party sites like ipay but guessing it will be the same deal there also. So looks like the easiest thing for me at the moment is to go with scratchcards until some other solution comes about over time perhaps.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 06, 2018, 11:27:16 AM
Just tried ipay, no joy again, it says it was refused by card issuer than there is some sort of block on such a payment and to contact them to see if it is possible to remove it. So when I've got a bit of time on my hands I'll phone them up and see if there is anything they can do about it.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 06, 2018, 02:15:29 PM
There's one or two other third party sites like ipay but guessing it will be the same deal there also. So looks like the easiest thing for me at the moment is to go with scratchcards until some other solution comes about over time perhaps.

One can only lead a stubborn horse to where they can drink...

Trench, today is not your day on many fronts..clue Mrs May and 'Brexit reality'
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on July 06, 2018, 05:02:07 PM
Just tried ipay, no joy again, it says it was refused by card issuer than there is some sort of block on such a payment and to contact them to see if it is possible to remove it. So when I've got a bit of time on my hands I'll phone them up and see if there is anything they can do about it.

Try online chat instead of call -- but -- you will keep going around in circles. In this case --it is not you creating the circle -- but the system . The situation is as I described  in earlier posts.


gosh Jay, your information is out of date!
we should seek help from someone with more recent experience than Jay's


The big difference is that I have actual current relevant exposure to the question being addressed   ie I am not theorising from some memory 20 years ago!
FWIW -- I had not tried to do for a couple of years -- so in that sense -  I was commenting from that time without looking at site yesterday -HOWEVER -- I just did look and tried to pay --NOTE --I actually attempted to do that - the result was identical to my previous experience.

I detail this for a reason --  there are a couple of people intent on slapping  at my post --MY FACTUAL POSTS -- who attempt to denigrate what I said -- and THEY HAVE ZERO FIRST HAND KNOWLEDGE ON THIS VERY SPECIFIC PROBLEM.

Sure it is the internet -- but surely even they can see their own stupidity here .The continuing trolling across every thread by people that cannot just leave something and move on is tedious for everyone else  as posters like Moby and the silly Billy are intent on having the last word on EVERY occasion. They seem to think that it is compulsory that they comment in every thread -- -the net result is to divert the thread from any given topic at the time into some sort of personal pissing contest.  :cluebat:
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: krimster2 on July 06, 2018, 05:53:42 PM
Jay,
   would you like some cheese and crackers
   to go with the WHINE?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 06, 2018, 06:23:04 PM
One can only lead a stubborn horse to where they can drink...

Trench, today is not your day on many fronts..clue Mrs May and 'Brexit reality'

One only wants to be so much off a geek ;D

Well they've come to an agreement it looks I've continued this in the EU Issues thread so you can rant on there :D
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2018, 04:36:16 PM
Yep had a bit of that on my Lviv trip just without the snow, lol. At the time though it was no laughing matter and while I fit it sorted in the end I could have been left high and dry. It's the last bit of my trip to tell you guys about which I will do so shortly. Suffice to say it was an ordeal and shows how you really need to have eyes in the back of your head with these apartment owners.

So now to finish off this trip report with what happened after I arrived in Lviv. This has been left to last as it turned into an ordeal so takes some time explaining. I no doubt expect the usual digs, etc but I put this up for the benefit of the general good.

Well I arrived at Lviv train station several hours late around midnight as some of you may recall owing to the border missed connection train fiasco. So at this point I just wanted to get a taxi into Lviv City Centre to the the Apartment address I had taken off Bookings.com. So I got the taxi to take me to the supposed address. Well I got there and no joy, fortunately I was able to connect up to a nearby open internet connection. This showed me that the taxi driver had dropped me off in the wrong location by quite some way.

I was though at the northern edge of the city centre. I resolved to try and make my way on foot to the Citadel, a posh hotel and local landmark, not where I was staying but near the address Marker I had taken of Bookings.com Google map. Well I headed of down a nearby busy main road. After a while and no apparent signage to any of the local landmarks near to where I was my Apartment was supposed to be I asked a couple of lads passing by. They seemed to be on nightclubbing/bar mode but sober enough and we're quite decent. They looked up on their online maps and showed me that the Citadel was about a 20 minute walk away or I could get another Taxi. Realising that time was not on side for making a meeting with the Apartment owner I decided to give the taxi option another go. I went up to some nearby taxi's parked off the road and asked them. For some reason I was passed to the one of them that seemed the most clueless on both English and where to go. One of the othere taxi drivers had to explain to him several times over where to go - not a good sign but still I needed to just get this sorted. So I went of in my second taxi journey of the night. Turned out to be an unofficial taxi of course, like the previous guy he wanted only 100 ghrvina, so no big deal to me. Problem was he had no Sat Nav or clue of where to go, he kept asking me for my mobile phone (which had the Russian translation of what I wanted, the Citadel) so he could ask nearby bystanders where to go - great, not. Anyway we eventually get there, I get my suitcase out of the back & pay the guy. I then ask the guy outside the where the address is. He is good enough to tell me despite not being a guest at the Citadel. He takes me around the perimeter of the Citadel grounds, a nice serene feel to the place, tranquil & peacefully quiet and we'll landscaped to a gate. I follow his directions all the way down the hill to the bottom. However upon reaching the bottom and feeling into my trouser pocket for my mobile I realise it's not there! I think oh f*ck, surely not, yep that's right unfortunately numnuts of a taxi driver has gone off with my mobile! Cursing my misfortune I also realise that its pointless making my way back up the hill, the gate was locked behind me and was a long way around from the front of the hotel. Instead I realise that the best thing to do is to get to my apartment. I follow the instructions as best as I can but nothing is apparent. Things seem to be going into a downward spiral. I then spot a couple of people stacking up chairs outside a restaurant and decide to ask them as it must be somewhere nearby. Turns our it's actually a Hotel, they usher me inside to the front desk. My luck is in as it turns out the guy behind the desk not only speaks decent enough English but is also very decent enough to phone up the apartment owners for me. Arrangements are made for me to meet a girl from the apartment along the Opera house strip. I ask why she couldn't meet me there he doesn't of course know but handily has free maps on the back of a leafet advertising local eateries etc which he gives me and draws the path I need to take, brilliant :) I now have something a lot more hopeful happening. I set of eagerly hoping to turn around this sorry saga. The walk to the Opera house strip is a short one.

I look around at what I can only assume is the correct location for the Apartment girl. I say assume since it was apparently a monument of someone with a hand outstretched and something like a book in the other. I anxiously look over several monuments along the Opera house strip, crazy there are at least a couple of possibilities, but it's not clear if the are holding a book! By now I'm starting to go both into Tom Hanks 'Da Vinci Code' mode trying to decipher the many statues to decide which one it might be and starting to wonder if the Hotel had actually duped me to get rid of me/have a laugh. I decide to head up to the fountain I spot in front of the Opera house building to see if anything there - nothing. I msjd my way back to the center of the strip and the central monumrnt that looks really most hopefull. Looking towards it I spot a young lady who seems to be on the lookout for someone coming the opposite way. Could it be? It is we both make our way to each other as it becomes apparent that we are both searching for the other.

She introduces herself and tells me that she will take me to my Apartment :D If it were not for the Los of my mobile phone I couldn't have been happier. She also tells me the apartment owner had cancelled the apartment as she thought I wasn't going to turn up - despite me sending several sms & email at the Polish border train station that I would be getting the later train. She says though it will be fine the apartment is mine for the duration - they still need me to pay the money in cash after all. She takes me to the Apartment, it's a nice spacious luxurious decor Apartment in the heart of the old town :D Noticing it's nowhere near where it's supposed to be I query this with her. Turns our they have several apartments eachave in a different building but they can only put one address down on Bookings.com - Utterly demented! Why not put something on Bookings explaining that or at least tell me in advance of my travel rather than during my travel - they sent a sms text to my mobile which only got in Lviv but couldnt text back or make out why they were saying this other address is where I need to be nor know where it was. Still my Apartment ordeal was over now to consider my mobile phone issue...
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 11, 2018, 05:33:00 PM
...So I sit in the Apartment admiring the nice decor, it's way bigger than I thought it would be being both wider and having a double height ceiling. However my mind quickly focuses on the need to replace passwords using my tablet on my mobile app accounts just in case it didn't lock out - it should have done bit just to be on the safe side I go through all the main ones, email, Yahoo,  Microsoft, Amazon, etc A  pain but rather than risk being locked out myself. At this point I'm wondering if the taxi driver was playing a scam on me or was a genuine mistake, who knows. I decide to make an email to the Citadel on the off chance the driver had dropped of the mobile there or a massage. I feel stupid doing it as I know my chances seem slim. Then I turn in for the night for a much need sleep. I arise later in the morning, checking my email I see one from the Citadel, I'm convinced it's going to tell me no joy and not being a guest I'm kind of reaching a bit also. I'm surprised turns out numnuts has left a message telling them he had my mobile and his phone number to call him on. Realising that his English is bad I decide instead to go to Tourist Information and ask them if them can call him. My luck is once again in, a girl that speak very good English hastens to be on the desk (I later find out that this is not always the case, I went in another day and no one did). I ask if she could make the call for me, she does, he answers, he confirms he has the phone, but he wants money to recompense him searching for me, leaving messages at loaf's of hotels. My mind turns to he is likely bullsh*tting. I'm not exactly in a great negotiating position however, so I offer 200 ghrvina, but he wants 500 ghrvina - I can tell from the expression of the Tourist Info girl she thinks this a little high. I decide  though that I can't risk being a tight wad on this one to try and save a couple of quid. It's about £15 verses a replacement cost of £280-300 and all the data & inconvenience, etc. I accept and arrange a meet up in the vacinity for later than day, he eventually turns up, hands the phone over first, I hand over the 500 ghrvina, I decide for all I know it could have been a genuine error and would be unfair if he stumped the cost, after all £15 is not that big a deal to me. However, he wants another 100 ghrvina for the journey out, no way, so he settles for the 500 ghrvina. Me, I'm just happy to get my phone back :) and everything finally straightened out.

Now I have a cheaper travel phone and a cheap back up of the same model both with Lifecell sims to protect against this happening again or similar. I will leave my more expensive phone at home it's too much of a liability when travelling in general but even more so in Ukraine I think.

It also means I can communicate more easily in Ukraine and importantly use the Uber & Uklon apps to get cheaper taxi rides to pre-notified places and prices so none of this rubbish with the taxi driver not knowing where he is going :)

So it was a definite learning experience and one I decided I would make sure I would take action so as to not risk the same or similar problems reoccurring in future.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: John Gaunt on July 12, 2018, 02:03:35 AM
Good post Trench. I can sympathise with your predicament. The apartment switching is a fairly common occurrence, has happened to me a few times. It does throw you the first time it happens but then it becomes just another oddity of these trips..
Glad you managed to recover your phone.
I bought a cheap Nokia with local sim to do local calls.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: JayH on July 12, 2018, 02:07:42 AM
FOR THE RECORD - I only bother to post and comment  on or in TC thread in that it may help others Reading . I note recent comments that are inline with my assessment of him some years ago

I mentioned in a post not far up thread about the importance of being able to make calls  on arrival -- and preferably from a number where you can receive calls AND -people will call !

The precise case  TC  quotes above about finding apartment   is a case on point.
It is not unusual that the address you may have gleaned when booking apartment  is NOT the actual address you have been allocated.
This is not just a booking.com issue --but one I have seen on numerous other sites eg airbnb  etc

It is one of the major reasons I advocate staying at a Hotel -that has a clear cut address -- and you can write that address down and show a taxi driver --hey presto - how much simpler is that?  Imagine -- a long trip ( not from EU or UK) and you arrive toting bags late in the day --  and finding yourself in the situation TC did above -just makes it harder than it needs to be.

So--I will say it again -those that have so dogmatically said guys MUST stay in an apartment -- are giving very bad dumb advice,

In this case -TC had been in Ukraine previously -- so he had a better feel of his situation ( remarkably !! :deadhorse:)   Imagine that was in colder weather and later in the day.

Because of my comments on the plus of hotels v apartments-- some concluded I never stayed in apartments. The fact is that I have also stayed in many(many many) apartments -- and seen all the potential problems that can arise. Even when my lady is with me ( who speaks the languages) and after doing way above average pre organisation -- a % of time some issue arrives with finding apartment and collecting keys . Unless I already know a system- I try and avoid apartment logistics after long flights.

In TC case above -- and his late arrival  issue -- that is where getting it in writing that it is understood that you will arrive late-- and could be later. Maybe pay the first night in advance to secure ( I thought Booking needs a c/c to confirm booking??_)    Then-- sending confirming info in the 24 hours before arrival-- follow up with sms updates on eta   etc  can only help you. Better too much than too little !!
There is nothing worse than being dog tired and then stressed unnecessarily.
 
Ironically -- I pre empted the issues covered here in talking about why you need phone in action on arrival ! :)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 12, 2018, 04:42:17 AM
JayH

As a host for both Booking.com and Airbnb, it is an OBLIGATION  to supply the apartment listed or of a higher std ..in the same location...If one jerks guests around you don't get Superhost status

We would never do this ...if we did...we would expect to pay/ lose the guest and get a shyte review.

We hosted in Russia...not Ukraine....but the rules to get a trusted status are not hard to follow.

Of course, if you want to pay more for less care...feel free..

Read reviews before booking
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: rwd123 on July 12, 2018, 05:41:40 AM
Whatever happened to Stirlitz? I rented a place via him over a decade ago. Had no issues whatsoever.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2018, 05:48:55 AM
Good post Trench. I can sympathise with your predicament. The apartment switching is a fairly common occurrence, has happened to me a few times. It does throw you the first time it happens but then it becomes just another oddity of these trips..
Glad you managed to recover your phone.
I bought a cheap Nokia with local sim to do local calls.

Thanks John it wasn't at all easy situation. When she said it had been cancelled but I could have an apartment I thought here we go she's doing an apartment switch trick for some lower grade apartment. I wasn't going to take that lying down and not at the price agreed. However, on querying further it turns out I had misunderstood her. I would be getting the actual apartment agreed as viewed on Bookings.com it was just that the owner had cancelled it on Bookings.com but as I was there I could still have it for the agreed period. So not really an apartment swap it was the actual apartment which wad lovely but it's address was different to that stated on Bookings.com. To be honest it was actually better situated than where I thought it was :)

It's an ordeal though I could have done without. The deck off cards were already stacked against me before arrival because of this sillyness with them withholding vital information until the last minute. I had contacted them well before my entire trip, then again when leaving Krakow train station then at the border about the connection delay. There English was only intermediate. I managed to get through on a phone call to the owner of the apartment she acknowledged my texts sent but for some reason only wished to rely on texting rather than clear it all up on the phone as to the situation with me being delayed.

Anyway, I say it was an ordeal I could have done without but at the same time I did learn a lot from it, basically to check the address with the Apartment owner before booking (I would never have thought on earth it would be different a dress to that stated, lol) also to get at least one cheap travel phone with local sim as you have done John.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 12, 2018, 06:12:20 AM


I mentioned in a post not far up thread about the importance of being able to make calls  on arrival -- and preferably from a number where you can receive calls AND -people will call !

In TC case above -- and his late arrival  issue -- that is where getting it in writing that it is understood that you will arrive late-- and could be later. Maybe pay the first night in advance to secure ( I thought Booking needs a c/c to confirm booking??_)    Then-- sending confirming info in the 24 hours before arrival-- follow up with sms updates on eta   etc  can only help you. Better too much than too little !!
There is nothing worse than being dog tired and then stressed unnecessarily.
 
Ironically -- I pre empted the issues covered here in talking about why you need phone in action on arrival ! :)

The getting a phone with a local sim issue I hoped to sort out on this trip and intended to get one anyway. However events jumped in front of me doing this so I had to endure the inconvenience once more and for the last time K hope now that I have one (still need to get scratch car though). Basically I arrived around midnight to early hours of the morning so pitch darkness aside from lights from here & there. The train sration had no obvious outlets and of course nearly all shops would have long since closed for the night anyhow. It's something I should have sorted ideally from first journey to Ukraine a couple of years ago, bit Ukraine was all new to me then and I was all at Sea on the whole lot really back then.

The Bookings.com took a c/c to confirm booking and to be honest I prefer to pay for it all online, it's safer than carrying loads of money around. For some reason though they would only accept payment in cash - guess it's a Ukrainian thing, foreign bank cards, cash economy, tax, etc who knows. So I got it out of the cash machines for them in Lviv, not ideal but better than carrying a lot of cash on the journey.

They sent confirmations as you state but at no time in these did they mention the Apartment address until I got an sms text in the first taxi in live telling me to go to such & such a street. I had no clue what that street was or why they were telling me to to there when I thought I had the address in my hands which I printed off on Bookings. In hindsight I should have printed it off in Ukrainian or at least Russian since the taxi driver didn't have a clue bit acted as if he did. Uber & Uklon apps are of course way better since the taxi driver will already have the address, ah heaven! :) but probably good to have as a back up anyway. I always print out everything twice and put one copy in my suitcase and one in my travel bag as a backup on addition to any apps/internet stuff just in case.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BillyB on July 12, 2018, 11:25:26 AM
Whatever happened to Stirlitz? I rented a place via him over a decade ago. Had no issues whatsoever.

He joined the military to confront Russian invaders. He's currently discharged and living like a civilian until called upon again. He was here a month or so ago posting. Send him a message and he'll probably respond.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 13, 2018, 01:03:13 AM
Just thought it worth adding here that I've also found out that the thing about Ukrainian/FSW refusing to go in hotels or they will be deemed 'prostitutes' is a load of BS. Two Ukrainian women have recently told me this. One I met in Lviv, I said that I've heard women visiting hotels would deemed 'indecent' (I was not going to say prostitute in a face to face conversation it didn't seem appropriate). Her response was 'why would it? For walking up a flight of stairs! Lol. The other Ukrainian girl I have been messaging online, I messaged about the prostitute thing to her, well it made her laugh, she told me direct that it certainly isn't the case, that the two (younger) girls that have said this to me in the past were having me on and how nieve I am for believing it :-[ So just somewhat embarrassing but at least I'll know it's BS if I ever hear it again and of course have no hang ups about staying in a hotel myself ::)

I'm guessing it's something that goes around a bit since I've had two girls say it to me. My thought is that it may be used where a hotel does not suit them for various reasons. Either because it's a small city/town and they don't want the locals to know their business, that they are meeting a foreigner and may be assumed to be having sex with him. Hence the 'prostitute' excuse is used as they have heard other girls have used it with foreigners even though it is an over-exaggeration. Or because the girl would rather you stay in an aparent for the possibly more spacious surroundings, etc. and it becomes an easy way of getting their way is my thoughts on it.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 13, 2018, 03:53:38 AM
Just thought it worth adding here that I've also found out that the thing about Ukrainian/FSW refusing to go in hotels or they will be deemed 'prostitutes' is a load of BS.


You never did absorb data, well..

As I pointed out before .. I had an instance with a RU lass that regularly attended biz conferences at the five star hotel she suggested - she DID say to book the aprt- hotel and I didn't understand ...

She would not come back to my hotel room and *I* thought it was an 'excuse' .... She came to visit me at my home in CY and then I rented a house in Gelendzhik ...NO hang ups ...

Then there's the decent hotels that require all guest to have key cards ..

You carry on with your 'advice', Trench ...Guys who read such (and apply it ) will NOT be thanking you or JayH  :cluebat:

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 13, 2018, 11:17:08 AM
You never did absorb data, well..

As I pointed out before .. I had an instance with a RU lass that regularly attended biz conferences at the five star hotel she suggested - she DID say to book the aprt- hotel and I didn't understand ...

She would not come back to my hotel room and *I* thought it was an 'excuse' .... She came to visit me at my home in CY and then I rented a house in Gelendzhik ...NO hang ups ...

Then there's the decent hotels that require all guest to have key cards ..

You carry on with your 'advice', Trench ...Guys who read such (and apply it ) will NOT be thanking you or JayH  :cluebat:

Did you pay for her to visit your home in CY?

So you are saying she had a hang up over the hotel room thing?

This would jar with the two ladies I had met both in their thirties who had never heard of such a thing or at least thought it ridiculous.

I would be keen to know what the difference was here.

Perhaps it was more that she did not want a one night stand that a hotel room deal might allure to. That instead a residence and/or stay at a residence meant a more permanent footing for a relationship as opposed to a quick hook up.

I am not sure that the two younger ladies in their twenties both stated the prostitute thing for a laugh or necessarily to have me on in the fullest sense of the meaning. I think it wad perhaps more an overstatement that they meant that they did not want to be used merely for sexual gratification but that they wanted a more permanent relationship and in their mind being invited to a residence personified this. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this Mobers.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: ML on July 15, 2018, 07:23:45 PM
Just thought it worth adding here that I've also found out that the thing about Ukrainian/FSW refusing to go in hotels or they will be deemed 'prostitutes' is a load of BS.

No, it is not BS.
I have experienced such with several FSU women who were not prudes or shy about anything else and were very confident women.  But they would not even go into hotel lobby while I picked up newspaper or some such.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: jone on July 16, 2018, 08:09:35 AM
I agree with ML.

Even the prostitutes won't go in the lobby when they are coming to see me.  And I always thought it was because they didn't want to be seen with me.

 :cluebat:

Seriously, if women are coming to meet you, they will either be there with a friend or they will wait outside.  FSU women are very sensitive to the way they are viewed by the public.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 19, 2018, 01:52:22 AM
Did you pay for her to visit your home in CY?

As I remember - NO - she refused the offer of payment

So you are saying she had a hang up over the hotel room thing?

Can you TRY reading ? YES, she didn't want to come back to my hotel room - but had no problems with apartments

This would jar with the two ladies I had met both in their thirties who had never heard of such a thing or at least thought it ridiculous.

Hmm, but who are folks going to believe ?  YOU ... with your chaotic and ever changing 'advice' for guys how NOT to date FSU women - or me ... ? ;)



I would be keen to know what the difference was here.

One of us really was getting somewhere ?

Perhaps it was more that she did not want a one night stand that a hotel room deal might allure to. That instead a residence and/or stay at a residence meant a more permanent footing for a relationship as opposed to a quick hook up.

No - as previously posted - her reasoning was QUITE clear ...  This was no quick hook-up ...

I am not sure that the two younger ladies in their twenties both stated the prostitute thing for a laugh or necessarily to have me on in the fullest sense of the meaning. I think it wad perhaps more an overstatement that they meant that they did not want to be used merely for sexual gratification but that they wanted a more permanent relationship and in their mind being invited to a residence personified this. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on this Mobers.

I have no idea how serious - or not - your 'company' was about jumping your bones ... so you'll excuse me if *I* don't guess ...
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 19, 2018, 03:52:48 AM
No, it is not BS.
I have experienced such with several FSU women who were not prudes or shy about anything else and were very confident women.  But they would not even go into hotel lobby while I picked up newspaper or some such.

I think there may perhaps be some other reason why they did not want to go in. The two women I met seemed adament that the prostitute thing was a load of rubbish - and to be honest it always sounded weird with me just for walking in a building and going up some stairs. I don't see why it should be different to anywhere else. ML I assume their hang up was for other reasons. I can't thing the two women I met knew nothing off it and others do I would have thought it would be universally known one way or the other.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 19, 2018, 03:57:09 AM
Can you TRY reading ? YES, she didn't want to come back to my hotel room - but had no problems with apartments

Did she state why there was a difference for her?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 19, 2018, 05:55:27 AM
Did she state why there was a difference for her?

YES, but is it only you that has difficult understanding .... ?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 19, 2018, 10:53:10 AM
YES, but is it only you that has difficult understanding .... ?

Which was? I don't recall you stating the difference.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 19, 2018, 12:36:09 PM
TRY reading the thread ..
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 19, 2018, 03:03:21 PM
TRY reading the thread ..

You just say you 'thought it was an excuse' that she wouldn't go back with you to your Hotel room.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: 2tallbill on July 19, 2018, 07:15:23 PM
I think there may perhaps be some other reason why they did not want to go in.

Several very experienced men have told you their experiences and thoughts on the matter.
You have ignored the advantages of playing house or entertaining or many of the other
advantages. You've made up your mind, so why spend time arguing about it?

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 19, 2018, 07:58:02 PM
You just say you 'thought it was an excuse' that she wouldn't go back with you to your Hotel room.

I also mentioned her attitude when NOT offered a hotel room ..

Are you ALWAYS this 'perceptive' ?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 19, 2018, 08:14:36 PM
I also mentioned her attitude when NOT offered a hotel room ..

Are you ALWAYS this 'perceptive' ?

But you didn't state her reason, did she state that she thought it was place where prostitutes gather? Lol.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 19, 2018, 08:49:33 PM
But you didn't state her reason, did she state that she thought it was place where prostitutes gather? Lol.

Poor 'ol Trenchie, when he ( appears to ) get it .. he 'ruins' it by thinking it can't be true ...

'We bow' to your 'experience' in such matters ...

Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 20, 2018, 05:33:52 AM
Poor 'ol Trenchie, when he ( appears to ) get it .. he 'ruins' it by thinking it can't be true ...

'We bow' to your 'experience' in such matters ...

So how do you reconcile some girls stating girls who go in hotels are protitutes against girls who seem utterly oblivious to this notion and have never heard the likes of it.

I mean both these girls that told me how it was rubbish were both decent ladies in their thirties.  So I'm guessing if such a thing held any weight they would have heard about it by that age.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Boethius on July 20, 2018, 11:06:00 AM
So one falls under (a), the other is in Southern Ukraine.

Different regions, different attitudes.  The "MOB" business is big in Central/Eastern Ukraine.  Not so much in Western Ukraine.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 20, 2018, 11:31:31 AM
So one falls under (a), the other is in Southern Ukraine.

Different regions, different attitudes.  The "MOB" business is big in Central/Eastern Ukraine.  Not so much in Western Ukraine.

Correct.


Well Zaporizhzhia is a bit north of Kherson but like you say perhaps it has more to do with the Mail Order Bride Business. Kherson is one of those cities on the AFA tour that regularly goes there. The last girl I was with from Kherson tells me that only protitutes go there. So perhaps it is a thing that anything related to foreign dating one has to be careful as it gets a name for itself - I don't think they are all prostitutes at AFA tours but a bad word of the women that attend them perhaps goes around.

I mentioned the AFA tour to the girl in Nikolaev, she seemed to know little of it but I would be surprised at that. I can't remember the messaging on it all that clearly but she was dismissive of it I believe.

The Girl I first met from Mariupol was happy to stay at a Hotel, in a separate room, but that city is of course not on the tour list or particualarly open to foreigners.

So yes maybe its an aversion of not wanting anything to be associated with the MOB business, at least not in public, perhaps that is why the last girl didn't want me to visit if there is that strong an aversion to it out there among a lot of the population. I think she was kind of playing me though so on that you are right also I think.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: msmob on July 20, 2018, 10:14:56 PM
I don't think they are all prostitutes at AFA tours but a bad word of the women that attend them perhaps goes around.



Warning my info is 10 years old

I would not have gone on such tours - having seen documentaries on the 'expectations' of the guys - but I didn't get the impression that those attending were 'prostitutes' - may be serial daters or just lasses who got invited for a free night out - free booze and food

I KNEW ladies on AFA/ Loveme and they had put profiles with local marriage agencies and didn't realise they were being advertised on such a site


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EadypclkJc4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EadypclkJc4)

A video from 2008 - hardly prostitutes....
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: BdHvA on July 25, 2018, 03:46:04 PM
So ho. . . . at age.

STOP making excuses.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: LAman on July 25, 2018, 04:38:46 PM
Trench, did you ever figure out how to add funds to your Ukrainian number? May I ask what site you used to try to add funds? I know a guy who topped off his phone online on a CC from Canada.
I also know someone from Ukraine that may be able to top off for you.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Trenchcoat on July 25, 2018, 05:17:26 PM
Trench, did you ever figure out how to add funds to your Ukrainian number? May I ask what site you used to try to add funds? I know a guy who topped off his phone online on a CC from Canada.
I also know someone from Ukraine that may be able to top off for you.

Looks like the only way for me is scratchcards. Tried the actual Lifecell site and at least a couple of third party sites, Portmone I think was one, or something like that.
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: LAman on July 25, 2018, 05:52:55 PM
Looks like the only way for me is scratchcards. Tried the actual Lifecell site and at least a couple of third party sites, Portmone I think was one, or something like that.


Did you try this site? Portmone doesn't work
http://oplata.lifecell.ua

Did you check if the number is still valid? (*121# and "call" for Life)
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: Jumper on August 03, 2018, 07:00:09 AM
Correct.


Well Zaporizhzhia is a bit north of Kherson but like you say perhaps it has more to do with the Mail Order Bride Business. Kherson is one of those cities on the AFA tour that regularly goes there. The last girl I was with from Kherson tells me that only protitutes go there. So perhaps it is a thing that anything related to foreign dating one has to be careful as it gets a name for itself - I don't think they are all prostitutes at AFA tours but a bad word of the women that attend them perhaps goes around.

I mentioned the AFA tour to the girl in Nikolaev, she seemed to know little of it but I would be surprised at that. I can't remember the messaging on it all that clearly but she was dismissive of it I believe.

The Girl I first met from Mariupol was happy to stay at a Hotel, in a separate room, but that city is of course not on the tour list or particualarly open to foreigners.

So yes maybe its an aversion of not wanting anything to be associated with the MOB business, at least not in public, perhaps that is why the last girl didn't want me to visit if there is that strong an aversion to it out there among a lot of the population. I think she was kind of playing me though so on that you are right also I think.

TC, I have no idea how it is at this time, but frankly in the not so distant past this view by the public of a young single woman gong to a man's hotel room was indeed pretty commonplace.
 
  The stigma was quite real, and common sense would tell you ,that if you were a young woman going to a popular downtown area, with a foreign man, and to his hotel room,that the babushka tongues would wag for months about it.Is that something any young woman wants ?
.
To think they would not be sensitive to  this is truly not understanding Soviet and post Soviet society (shaped by those times)

Yes going to a mans flat might set that babushka network  off as well, but  not nearly as obvious, nor as much stigma as a hotel.
The hotel securoty guards used to routinely offer guests companionship, and filtered who was *working* by how their own cut was.Those mem that wernt propositioned by hotel security must have led a charmed life,as  it was quite routine of them to ask.

Now that certainly doesn't mean that times dont change,nor that every single woman would refuse to meet at a hotel.

It does mean at least a percentage of women  would still know about the stigma, and still be hesitant.
A young woman there now, still has to deal with the wagging tongues even if she only meets a foreign guy at a cafe, sure some won't care, or be willing to deal with it, others would be more sensitive about being seen out with a foreign guy  .
I'd  think the old stigma carries less presence now, but I dint doubt it's a factor no matter where they would be seen and certainly might be a tad more if headed to a mans hotel room.
Is that not true ,at least to some small  degree in your own city in England,?
Title: Re: Krakow & Lviv tour
Post by: GQBlues on August 03, 2018, 08:47:06 AM
So it appears this *debate* finally arrived to the correct answer everyone can agree on. Took long enough though.


That is: YES, it true and NO, its not!

I'm elated to see you folks got this one out of the way. Now if only the board can find a way to arrive to the same conclusion with all the other endless silly debates that resides in the world of the MOB.