The Propaganda War

[abashka]

Это как? И рыбку съесть и .....это.
Так вы другой власти и не заслужили.

Здесь идёт информационная война против вашей родины,а вы извиняетесь,что на русском пишете.Может,вы ещё извинитесь ,что вы русская? Какая досада,не правда ли?
 Ваш дед воевал на Курской дуге,а вы молчите,когда вам говорят,что войну выиграли союзники.
А ведь это только часть информационной войны против России.
Соответственно,вы предаёте память своего деда ,который за вас воевал и за тех,кто сейчас распространяет клевету о России. Так вы ещё не просто молчите ,а пытаетесь им подыгрывать.
Этакой добренькой хотите казаться.И вашим и нашим.

Нельзя быть немножко беременной.

Лариса, извинилась я за то, что пишу на русском на англоязычном форуме, а не за то,что я русская. Это простое правило этикета. На русском я писала в надежде донести до вас то,что до меня не смогли донести участники форума на английском, жаль, что вы так ничего и не поняли.

Никто не говорит о том, что войну выиграли только союзники, и не умаляет вклад России в Победу. В полку моего деда были и украинцы, и таджики, и, по его рассказам, некоторое время даже французы-союзники. Проблема большинства россиян сейчас в том, что мы считаем себя пупом земли, не всегда обоснованно, и везде ищем врагов.

По всему остальному предпочту в дискуссию не вступать, мы с вами говорим на разных языках, видимо, вы из тех людей, кто считает, что единственно верное мнение - его, а кто с ним не согласен - тот предатель. Это мне напоминает юношеский максимализм, который обычно проходит к 25 годам.

Попробуйте все-таки по текущей ситуации не верить слепо тому, что вам говорят по телевизору, а воспользоваться различными источниками информации прежде, чем делать односторонние выводы. Истина всегда где-то посередине.

Больше в дискуссии не вступаю, извините.

[Boethius]

Ваш дед воевал на Курской дуге,а вы молчите,когда вам говорят,что войну выиграли союзники.

The Allied forces did win WWII, to the extent anyone "wins" in a war.  That is an historical fact.  The USSR was part of the Allied forces.

[Boethius]

Боль России, которую предвидел великий русский писатель более 100 лет назад(!), оказалась еще более мучительной, чем та, которую он предвещал. Главное предательство русской России состоялось не со стороны балканских славян и даже не со стороны Болгарии, дважды предавшей русских в XX веке. Главное предательство состоялось со стороны самой близкой общерусскому стволу ветви — ветви малороссийской. Все прозрения Достоевского оказались отнесены, именно к Украине, которой наречено было быть навеки с русским народом. Она же, предав всю свою историю, всю свою борьбу за общерусское единство, предав своих ближайших братьев, упала в объятия наших врагов. Теперь уж эти объятья стали тисками, да только признаться в этом на Украине не могут и душат, изничтожают ежедневно в себе русскую душу, стремясь стать американо-европейцами, выторговать себе хоть уголок в "европейском доме" — пусть их далее прихожей в этот дом и не пустят, а расстелят перед входом половичком, чтобы ноги вытирать.

It is not your right, living in another country, to decide how Ukrainians should live.  The fact that you refer to Ukrainians as "малороссы" demonstrates the contempt with which you hold Ukrainians.  Is it any wonder, to you, that Ukrainians would not wish to have their fate aligned with a people who view them, and their language, as inferior?

Have you ever heard of the Ems Ukaz?  Of the Soviet policy of "internationalization", which in Ukraine was implemented as "Russification", or a loss of Ukrainian language?    Here is some information on the last prisoner to die in a Soviet gulag.  His crime?  Promoting Ukrainian rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasyl_Stus

Ukrainians have generally been denied their culture and their language when under Russian rule.  That, partly, is why they want independence, and closer ties to Europe.

[calmissile]

It is not your right, living in another country, to decide how Ukrainians should live.  The fact that you refer to Ukrainians as "малороссы" demonstrates the contempt with which you hold Ukrainians.  Is it any wonder, to you, that Ukrainians would not wish to have their fate aligned with a people who view them, and their language, as inferior?

Have you ever heard of the Ems Ukaz?  Of the Soviet policy of "internationalization", which in Ukraine was implemented as "Russification", or a loss of Ukrainian language?    Here is some information on the last prisoner to die in a Soviet gulag.  His crime?  Promoting Ukrainian rights.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasyl_Stus

Ukrainians have generally been denied their culture and their language when under Russian rule.  That, partly, is why they want independence, and closer ties to Europe.

Agree 100%.  It is amazing how Russian's do not have the ability to open their eyes or apply logic or reason.  She could also just be a troll here to antagonize everyone.

[SANDRO43]

Russia claims that Ukraine is being run by Jews and Nazis.

A rather contradictory alliance, historically ,

[ML]

A rather contradictory alliance, historically ,

Contradictions in thinking and stupidity doesn't bother a Russian at all.

I am just amazed that they can look in mirror each day while brushing teeth, shaving, etc. knowing what a nation of liars and a$$holes they are.

[Boethius]

I don't think it is as black and white as either side presents.

My better half has some Russian roots, and he is probably the most logical thinker I've ever met.

[Photo Guy]

Yeah- a lot of gray areas. My friend in Kyiv tells
me that political positions are bought in
Ukraine. Reform is needed to break away
from that kind of corruption. It's hard to
fight corruption during a war. The seeds of
democracy need time to grow.

[Boethius]

They are bought in a sense, in the US as well. 


Think about it.

[fathertime]

They are bought in a sense, in the US as well. 


Think about it.

Bingo!


Fathertime! 

[Photo Guy]

I think it's a silly statement to say that politics in the USA is as corrupt as in Ukraine. I have voted, as millions of others have, without a corrupting influence. I voted for John Anderson in 1980. I was for Ross Perot. In local elections, it is quite easy to vote a corrupt politician out of office. I think it's absurd and overly cynical to excuse bad behavior by saying, 'it happens everywhere'. Instead say, 'Let's get rid of this corrupt senator' etc. Your average citizen can and does determine who will be elected here. Money is not the strongest influence. Look at Jeb Bush. He's got the money and yet doing much worse than Dr. Ben Carson, so far, in the polls. It's simple-minded to say, "Oh look- there's corruption and propaganda in the New Soviet Union, just like there is propaganda here in the US or EU'. Absurd.

[Boethius]

I didn't say American politics is as corrupt as in Ukraine.  But you look at the money needed to run in federal elections, how much is needed for the presidency, look at the candidates, look at the influence various players have (Wall Street bankers, for one), look at how many members of Congress don't leave office wealthier than when they entered, then tell me with a straight face the US political system is not corrupt.

[mendeleyev]

Larissa,

Kyiv is the birthplace of what is today modern Russia. Ukrainians are not the children--they are the parents. Russia may be larger in size, but Kyiv is your rightful master, if we use the logic you employ.

[Photo Guy]

No doubt about it, we need to remove the strong influence of money here in US politics. Focusing on that, only undermines reform in Ukraine, in terms of corruption and politics.

[Photo Guy]

Mendy is right. Kyiv should make statements, encouraging Russia to follow its lead in cultural and political spheres. It's a sound psychology.

[fathertime]

No doubt about it, we need to remove the strong influence of money here in US politics. Focusing on that, only undermines reform in Ukraine, in terms of corruption and politics.

Huh?  From what I'm reading Photoguy you are saying we need to stop concerning ourselves with our own corruption, and focus on the corruption in Ukraine instead?   I'd say that our 1st and most important responsibility is to take care of our own corruption.


Fathertime!   

[Photo Guy]

Yes we should reform our political system to make corruption more difficult.
Yes, we should uphold our responsibility for protecting the sovereignty of Ukraine in the context of the Budapest Memorandum and in the context of a fledgling democracy under threat from a controlling neo-Soviet regime. Those two goals are not mutually exclusive.

[Photo Guy]

We should confront evil everywhere, whether it's internal or external. NAZI's should have been confronted in the Sudetenland.

[fathertime]

We should confront evil everywhere, whether it's internal or external. NAZI's should have been confronted in the Sudetenland.

Idealistic....I guess you feel we should be policing the world then and we are to be trusted to do so fairly....  Don't want my kids doing this, we have enough issues to contend with here at home..


Fathertime! 

[Photo Guy]

Police? No. Are you familiar with the Budapest Memorandum?

[fathertime]

We should confront evil everywhere, whether it's internal or external. NAZI's should have been confronted in the Sudetenland.

Police? No. Are you familiar with the Budapest Memorandum?

Without having an enforcer (Police) I don't see how you are going to eradicate what you think is evil.   It is rare  to have a situation as obvious as Nazi Germany.  Nations will have very little altruism, mostly going to look out for their interests above everything else. 


Budapest Memorandum had lots of signatories.  Although some here have questioned if the obligations were fulfilled, others stated by the letter of the agreement, they have been. 


Fathertime!   

[ML]

What about the Quiller Memorandum?

[Larissa2]

He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.( Alexander Nevski)

"Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."
(New International Version),Matthew.   

[sleepycat]

He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

Are you talking about that dwarf Putin?

[mendeleyev]

Budapest Memorandum had lots of signatories.  Although some here have questioned if the obligations were fulfilled, others stated by the letter of the agreement, they have been.

Only a complete fracking moronic idiot could even begin to think that it has been fulfilled. The agreement called for Ukraine giving up nuke stockpiles in exchanges for guarantee of sovereign borders. Ukraine gave up the nukes.

Are her borders guaranteed by those who signed?