The Propaganda War

[Larissa2]

Larissa,

I live in Russia. I am a journalist accredited with the Russian Foreign Ministry.

I have been in Eastern Ukraine, and yes there are Russian soldiers there. In fact, the Russian government has already awarded death benefits to the families of over 2,000 dead Russian young men. Over 3,200 disabled soldiers received cash disability payouts from the Russian government for injuries suffered from fighting in Eastern Ukraine. To receive benefits the families must agree to a code of silence.

What you see on Russian television, especially on channels like the First Channel, is nothing but pure lies.

By the way, I am also Russian Orthodox.

 Do you offer to place NATO troops in Donbass?

[Larissa2]

Yes Larissa, Russia HAS attacked itself many times! There were an estimated 7,000,000-12,000,000 deaths during the Russian Civil War of 1917-1922, most of whom were civilians...   Do you have any idea of how many Soviet citizens were killed in the 1937-1938 purge?  Here, let me tell you, the answer is almost 700,000!  Any idea how many died during the Holodomor? What, you don’t even know what that is?  Well let me provide you with that answer as well, the number is in the millions!   Yeah, Russians worried about the fate of Russian speakers, so very sad, they should do something about it...

You are right.Russia has waged war against Orthodoxy. Orthodox Tsar Nicholas II killed Freemasons.It was a ritual murder.

[mendeleyev]

I do respect the right should Ukraine want to align with other nations, but I have no desire for NATO in Ukraine.

However, I do want Russian troops out of Eastern Ukraine.

Larissa, were you against the NATO base that was in Ulyanovsk? That is the birthplace of Vladimir Lenin! It was good rent money for the Kremlin but the arrangement ended in 2013.

http://rbth.com/international/2013/08/16/nato-russia_cooperation_stalls_at_ulyanovsk_reverse_transit_hub_28979.html
(Perhaps you know this news organization. It is part of the Russia Today organization.)

[Larissa2]

After Gorbachev and Yeltsin  Russia smashed to pieces, we have local wars. I want  to us to be left in peace  who provoked the war.

[mendeleyev]

Larissa, so Gorbachev and Yeltsin were the bad guys. I assume then that Putin is the peaceful guy?

Do his wars in Chechnya not count?

Now that he has taken credit for starting the war with Georgia as a mean to fight terrorism prior to the Olympics, does that count?

[mendeleyev]

For the record, I do understand what you mean. I will translate for you:

Gorbachev and Yeltsin destroyed what had been the Soviet Union. Since that time, all the former republics that had been held together by force have failed to show their expected appreciation for holy Mother Russia, and instead have tried to separate themselves from a former Master. Putin is putting a stop to all that and is working to bring unity. Sometimes that means a little force is needed to hammer home the idea of who is boss, but in the end, once everybody learns their place, all will be peaceful and quiet again.

[ML]

Has anyone mentioned here (in perhaps other threads), the latest silliness that is in official Russia news reports.

Ochka tells that these reports state that USA businesses and our government is financing the current movement of illegals into the Western European countries.  Our goal is to destabilize Western Europe.

And next, the USA will finance the movement of illegals into China and Russia to destabilize those countries also.

She continues to be amazed how the Russian public believes this stuff after knowing full well the total lies that they were fed during Soviet time.

[alex330]

Has anyone mentioned here (in perhaps other threads), the latest silliness that is in official Russia news reports.

Ochka tells that these reports state that USA businesses and our government is financing the current movement of illegals into the Western European countries.  Our goal is to destabilize Western Europe.

It is also a rumor among certain groups here in the US. Dunno if there is anything to it, but anything is possible.

http://ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/september/04/false-flag-alert-on-refugee-crisis/

[Boethius]

The residents of Donbass not want to be a part of Ukraine.

Then why have most of them left Donbas and moved to other parts of Ukraine?  Most of the people who have fled the war in Donbas live in other parts of Ukraine.  Not Russia.

[Boethius]

She continues to be amazed how the Russian public believes this stuff after knowing full well the total lies that they were fed during Soviet time.

Most of them believed the lies they were fed during Soviet times, too.

[Boethius]

After Gorbachev and Yeltsin  Russia smashed to pieces, we have local wars. I want  to us to be left in peace  who provoked the war.

Correction.  The USSR was "smashed to pieces". 


Local wars were inevitable because the Soviet Union was held together by force.

[Larissa2]

Then why have most of them left Donbas and moved to other parts of Ukraine?  Most of the people who have fled the war in Donbas live in other parts of Ukraine.  Not Russia.

Do you have statistics?

[Larissa2]

Correction.  The USSR was "smashed to pieces". 


Local wars were inevitable because the Soviet Union was held together by force.

86% of Ukrainians wanted to remain in the Soviet Union.This statistic.The other republics were against as well.Mason Gorbachev to blame for the troubles of Russia.

[Larissa2]

Larissa, so Gorbachev and Yeltsin were the bad guys. I assume then that Putin is the peaceful guy?

Do his wars in Chechnya not count?

Now that he has taken credit for starting the war with Georgia as a mean to fight terrorism prior to the Olympics, does that count?

Yes.Gorbachev and Yeltsin are to blame for the troubles of Russia.They brought the country to poverty.Putin is trying to raise the country, but this is difficult to do alone.Our Parliament takes stupid laws.Our oligarchs are all stolen.

[Larissa2]

Yah know what I can't figure out?

Why the Russians can't do the math?  Before Maidan, they had about 53, maybe 52% Party of Regions.  They go in and lop off of Crimea.  Then they go in and stir up Donbass and Lugansk.  Then they can't figure out why the electoral map has tilted against them. 

They keep everyone in place, don't steal Crimea, and in four years they would have had their own guy ruining the country again.

Crimea is Russian territory.In Crimea, the referendum was held.Almost all of the residents were in favor of joining Russia.Khrushchev gave Crimea to Ukraine in 1954.

[Boethius]

Do you have statistics?

This is for Donetsk only, it doesn't include Luhansk.


http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/search?page=search&docid=54d4a2889&query=donetsk


The number as of May, 2015, increased to 1.2 million.

[Boethius]

86% of Ukrainians wanted to remain in the Soviet Union.This statistic.The other republics were against as well.Mason Gorbachev to blame for the troubles of Russia.

Irrelevant to today.  Polls in 2013 found that the majority of residents of Donbas supported Ukrainian independence.

[Larissa2]

This is for Donetsk only, it doesn't include Luhansk.


http://www.unhcr.org/cgi-bin/texis/vtx/search?page=search&docid=54d4a2889&query=donetsk


The number as of May, 2015, increased to 1.2 million.

Are you russian?

[Boethius]

Yes.Gorbachev and Yeltsin are to blame for the troubles of Russia.They brought the country to poverty.Putin is trying to raise the country, but this is difficult to do alone.Our Parliament takes stupid laws.Our oligarchs are all stolen.

The USSR had been in economic decline since the 1960's.  The KGB wanted Gorbachev appointed, that has been verified since the collapse of the USSR. 


Yeltsin's surroundings, and the prescription of "shock therapy" created the oligarchs.  However, how has Putin made any difference?   Its economy is still too reliant on oil and gas, huge tracts of the country are mired in poverty, and there is no rule of law.  Putin has magnified, rather than minimized these problems.


By the way, my Soviet born husband refers to the USSR as a "belch of hell".  He does not lament its collapse, and prays for Yeltsin, as he says he played an important role in kicking a rotten system to the trash heap of history.

[Larissa2]

Irrelevant to today.  Polls in 2013 found that the majority of residents of Donbas supported Ukrainian independence.

A bad beginning makes a bad ending.A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

[Boethius]

Are you russian?

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17542.msg412924#msg412924

[Larissa2]

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=17542.msg412924#msg412924

Наши Святые Александр Невский,Дмитрий Донской И Александр Суворов были патриотами своей Родины.
Если вы позиционируете себя Православным,хотя бы не лейте грязь на Родину .

[Boethius]

A bad beginning makes a bad ending.A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

The bad beginning was in November 1917 (or October, depending on which calendar you use).  Of course it had a bad ending.

[Boethius]

Если вы позиционируете себя Православным,хотя бы не лейте грязь на Родину .

Your current leaders are pouring dirt on their Motherland.

My husband would say that pouring dirt on the USSR, a state which tried to destroy him, is his right as a human being.  He heard those types of words often, and says it just indicates the obscurity of the individual.

[Larissa2]

Православный человек всегда патриот своей родины. Если это не так,то этот человек не православный. Либо он неправильно понимает православие.Родина одна. Она не продаётся и не предаётся.

http://azbyka.ru/dictionary/15/patriotizm.shtml