LOT refuses boarding!!!!!

[Wayne]

On 28 Feb 2014, LOT Airlines refused to allow my wife and her daughter to travel on the flight Kiev/Warsaw/Chicago.

Background:  They both had their Ukrainian passports and expired conditional (2 year) green card along with an official letter from USCIS.

My wife had th I-797, Notice of Action which states:

"Your conditional resident status is extended for a period of one year. During the one-year extension you are authorized employment and travel."

Daughter was included on my wife's I-751 petition, so she did not get a I-797, but instead  a letter:

"VERIFICATION OF INCLUSION OF A DEPENDENT IN FILING OF FORM I-151

Which states:

"This verification extends the validity of your alien registration receipt card and allows you to remain in the United States, with work aluthorization for one year from the filing date, or until a final decision is made on the request, whichever comes first. You may travel outside the United States and return during this one year period upon presentation of both your alien registration receipt card and this verification."

LOT refuses to return any money nor give credit towards any future flight.

They were out of the country for nine months. As I understand, they would have a reason to deny travel if they were out of country for one year or longer.

LOT told them since they were out for more than 6 months, they could not be admitted.

THIS IS WRONG!  Since they were out for more than 6 months, it could effect the residence time for becoming a Citizen, but not what LOT said.

I just called USCIS and the agent confirmed this. I asked if he can give me an official letter, but he only referred to the USCIS website. I asked to speak with his supervisor, and he transferred the call. The recording said the wait time is 61 minutes, so I left a call-back number.

My wife and daughter were scheduled for the biometrics today at the nearest USCIS office. So this is a very large problem for us! 

 

[pokerintherear]

Wayne

I have read many of your accounts. Nothing ever makes sense. Do you think you might not have genuine relationship or marriage? Out of country for 9 months? Why? People only do this on purpose.

I assume she is in Ukraine and now you must send bags of money for support of everyday life.

[Krassie]

If you have a green card, you cannot stay out of the country more than 6 mo. I had to come through all this years ago. I was smart  enough to ask people before traveling. You lose your green card...
If you are an american immigrant citizen you cannot stay out of the country more than 28 days, otherwise you will lose all your benefits if you get any.

[Wayne]

Krassie, where did you get this information?

28 Days?  WTF!
 
If you want to become a US Citizen, you should not stay out of country for 6 months or longer or you lose you residence time, but I am talking about be something completely different.
 
Show me something in writing.

[Shadow]

Book them a direct flight. The EU is currently nervous about people getting out of Ukraine and diving in to illegal existence.

[pokerintherear]

Book them a direct flight. The EU is currently nervous about people getting out of Ukraine and diving in to illegal existence.

ummm, I think they would not allow them to board because the destination is US. They do not have the proper documents to enter at passport control. Most airlines check your documents for international travel before you board the plane.

[viking]

They had the proper documentation. Six months is the "recommended" time to be out of country, but you CAN stay up to one year..with prior approval. There are direct flights from Kiev to NYC and you can pick up a connecting flight to Chicago. Just a lousy time to fly.

[tfcrew]

  Most airlines check your documents for international travel before you board the plane.

They certainly do when leaving the USA.

From Visajourney...
 
http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/161122-after-greencard-how-long-can-we-be-out-of-the-country-for/

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/143700-how-long-out-of-country-with-conditinal-green-card/

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/144073-leaving-the-country-with-a-conditional-greencard/

Hope some of it helps.

LOT refuses to return any money nor give credit towards any future flight.
 

But no refund at all is criminal.
Take Lufthansa and sue LOT

[Faux Pas]

LOT refuses to return any money nor give credit towards any future flight.

They were out of the country for nine months. As I understand, they would have a reason to deny travel if they were out of country for one year or longer.

LOT told them since they were out for more than 6 months, they could not be admitted.

THIS IS WRONG!  Since they were out for more than 6 months, it could effect the residence time for becoming a Citizen, but not what LOT said.

 
My wife and daughter were scheduled for the biometrics today at the nearest USCIS office. So this is a very large problem for us! 

 

Well they won't be making the biometrics appointment.

Wayne it's pretty obvious from what you've written here, your wife isn't being truthful. Kind'a like the plane crash she was involved in on her way over there that didn't happen. How's that house coming along anyway?

[lonedrake]

Wayne, I assume you have visited your wife at the new place you are building. Nine months is not normal for a newly married couple to be apart. You have seen your new place? I hope!

Anyways I thought your place was being built in Crimea. Not exactly a good place to visit now. However, I did notice that the commercial truck at your place(from the pics you posted) has Russian license plates. I have no idea if this is standard operating procedure in that area since so many Russians live there. Might be nothing....I have no idea. I do know when I was in Ukraine I was pulled over because my license plate was dirty and unreadable.

[Wayne]

My wife is building the house with completely her own money that she earned during the last 9 months while living in Ukraine. The workers are insulating and plastering the walls now. I was there and helped pick out the property when she bought it. If the crane truck had Russian plates, it probably means that there was no crane truck to rent locally.
 
When I retire, which I hope is soon, we will live part of the year there and part here. Therefore, they should keep their green cards in effect. I plan to get the PR for Ukraine so I can enter and leave as desired.
 
I know that it is up to the Customs and Border Protection officer to determine if a green card holder can enter USA. But how does LOT get to make that decision?

[pokerintherear]

  But how does LOT get to make that decision?

They might have made an error but again are you getting the full story.

Also I'm not 100% sure but there is the possibility if they are refused at port of entry the airline is responsible for taking them back to the departure origin. Most likely for free.

Hence the checking of documents before departure. If they see something very questionable they wont take the chance and responsibility.

[Faux Pas]

My wife is building the house with completely her own money that she earned during the last 9 months while living in Ukraine. The workers are insulating and plastering the walls now. I was there and helped pick out the property when she bought it. If the crane truck had Russian plates, it probably means that there was no crane truck to rent locally.
 
When I retire, which I hope is soon, we will live part of the year there and part here. Therefore, they should keep their green cards in effect. I plan to get the PR for Ukraine so I can enter and leave as desired.
 
I know that it is up to the Customs and Border Protection officer to determine if a green card holder can enter USA. But how does LOT get to make that decision?

There's the rub, LOT doesn't make that decision. Sure any airline can deny boarding for any number of reasons. That isn't one of them if they have the proper documentation. Either you are lying about the documentation she has or, she is lying to you. I'm guessing you know her documentation? If LOT has any question of the documentation being valid, they will contact the consulate directly or their legal peeps. They would get the same information as you. She either has valid documentation or she doesn't. Kind'a like almost pregnant. If you know her documentation is valid and legal, so does LOT. So, who's lying here, LOT, you or your wife?

My wife traveled to Russian once on an expired 2 year greencard with a letter from USCIS stating that the greencard was valid for 12 months from the expiration date. She was only gone for two months but experienced no problems as a result. If your wife has the letter, airlines and border guards will recognize it. If your wife were gone for 12 months, it would have been expired and they would not let her board. If they did not let her board they would issue some sort of credit depending on the terms of the ticket. Somebody isn't being truthful

[Wayne]

I have flown on LOT myself a few times without much trouble. Of course, I am American. Poland gets along with USA. I spents a few weeks in Warsaw and everyone was helpful, although I did not speak the language.
 
As a contrast, if you start speaking Russian while in Poland, I have seen that you will get poor to no service.
 
LOT has direct flights from Warsaw to Chicago because there are a lot of ethnic Poles living in Chigago. I would think there are more Polish people living in USA than in Poland.
 
I was on the phone with my wife, as she had her cell phone with her as always, while she was dealing with the LOT supervisor. She was very upset and out of control! The back ground speaking was either in Ukrainan or Russian, I don't know which. I did not get to speak to anyone from LOT. Their personnel in Kiev may or may not know any English. I never took a LOT flight between Kiev and Warsaw, so I don't know.
 
We all know that airlines over book flights. They sell more tickets than they have seats, sometimes. With all the trouble in Ukraine, they probably have more people wanting to get out than they would normally have at this time of year. That might include Ukrainians just wanting to get to Poland. So it could all come down to they just needed to bump someone.

[jone]

I am truly sorry Wayne, that so much controversy seems to follow your wife.

[ML]

As someone said, if person does not get through passport control in USA, then the airline they came in on has to bear the cost of taking the person back to their originating country.

So the airline personnel at the original departure point can and do prevent boarding when they have reason to suspect that the person does not have the proper documents to get into the USA.  (I suppose the same principle is in effect for persons flying into other countries of the world).

My own Ochka underwent intense scrutiny in Paris before she was allowed to board the flight to continue on to USA from Kyiv.  The people in Paris spent a lot of time with her passport, viewing her Student F-1 visa, and the I-20 form.  Supervisors were called in to look them over and give the final say on allowing boarding.

On other travels through Munich and Amsterdam, they only took quick looks at these documents.

So the experience of one person will not necessarily be the same as another person.  Just because some of you can claim that your partner had no trouble with document set X, does not mean that another partner will not have trouble with a similar document set X.

We should all know that this sort of thing (differential treatment) happens daily to persons around the world.  We are all at the mercy of the gate guardians in many facets of our life.  Fortunately, a large percent of the time, all comes off without a hitch.

Because Wayne's overall story is so bizarre, we don't really know the true facts, but . . . his latest story regarding refused boarding is certainly something that can and does happen.

[jone]

I would scrutinize Ochka up and down, too, if I were an airline employee.

 

[Faux Pas]

As someone said, if person does not get through passport control in USA, then the airline they came in on has to bear the cost of taking the person back to their originating country.

Only if they allowed them to board without proper documentation. From Wayne's description, she has it.

So the airline personnel at the original departure point can and do prevent boarding when they have reason to suspect that the person does not have the proper documents to get into the USA.  (I suppose the same principle is in effect for persons flying into other countries of the world).

Non-sequitor. She had the documents

My own Ochka underwent intense scrutiny in Paris before she was allowed to board the flight to continue on to USA from Kyiv.  The people in Paris spent a lot of time with her passport, viewing her Student F-1 visa, and the I-20 form.  Supervisors were called in to look them over and give the final say on allowing boarding.

On other travels through Munich and Amsterdam, they only took quick looks at these documents.
So the experience of one person will not necessarily be the same as another person.  Just because some of you can claim that your partner had no trouble with document set X, does not mean that another partner will not have trouble with a similar document set X.

We should all know that this sort of thing (differential treatment) happens daily to persons around the world.  We are all at the mercy of the gate guardians in many facets of our life.  Fortunately, a large percent of the time, all comes off without a hitch.

I have traveled many countries and have had my adequate documentation inspected, questioned and challenged with a fine tooth comb. Been hassled until the cows came home and still reached my intended destination. That had nothing to do with me being a woman, or a Ukrainian or trying to get to the U.S.. It happens all the time. My adequate documentation always prevails as does 999 out of 1000 other folks who travel. The airline only needs the documentation it takes to cover their ass and the passenger to have a ticket. Nothing more, nothing less. You have the documentation or, you don't. Yes, it's that simple.

Because Wayne's overall story is so bizarre, we don't really know the true facts, but . . . his latest story regarding refused boarding is certainly something that can and does happen.

Wayne's history is inability to see the trees because of the forest. As he has stated his scenario here leaves the reader to make but one logical deduction that being, somebody is lying. It's up to Wayne or the reader to surmise who.

[ML]

I would scrutinize Ochka up and down, too, if I were an airline employee.

 

Yes, I understand.

I reported earlier that, when we went on a Christmas trip here in USA, the TSA guy told Ochka after she went through the X-ray apparatus:

"You are good to go Miss Hollywood."

We are going to University BB game tonight.  I told Ochka I wanted her to dress up in her tight jeans, tight sweater, high heeled boots . . . and walk along sidelines of the court at half time . . . and then up to me and kiss me.

She said "I will do it for you."

[Wayne]

LOT told them that there was difference between a 2-year, conditional green card and a 10-year.
 
That the 10-year could be out of country up to 12 months--but the 2-year only 6 months.
 
I can not find anything, anywhere proving that! As I said before, the 2-year has all the same rights as the 10-year, except you need to remove conditions on the 2-year to get the 10-year.
 
The following is from USCIS;[/font][/size]

If You Are a Conditional Resident

You may be in the U.S. as a conditional resident (CR).
You are a CR if you were married for less than two

years to your U.S. citizen or permanent resident spouse

on the day your permanent resident status was granted.

If you have children, they also may be CRs. Some immigrant

investors are also conditional residents.

A CR has the same rights and responsibilities as a permanent

resident.

Conditional residents must file either

Form I-751, Petition to Remove the Conditions on

Residence, or Form I-829, Petition by Entrepreneur to

Remove Conditions, within two years of the date they

were granted conditional permanent resident status. This

date is usually the expiration date of your Permanent

Resident Card.You should file these forms within 90

days of the two-year anniversary of when you got your

conditional resident status. If you do not do this, you

can lose your immigration status.
 
Again, LOT told her that a conditional resident can only be out of country for 6 months. My wife lost her composure and did not stand up for herself. She believed what LOT told her and gave up!
 
Now, I am stubborn and want my money back! 

[Chicagoguy]

I misread dates on visa to Russia once. Mixed up Month/Day. Stupid me. And Delta agent in Chicago also missed it. We were refused entry in Moscow and sent home on same plane. I also had tickets to go further into Siberia on Aeroflot.
All my money was refunded by everyone. I was also told by someone that Delta has to pay a fine to Russia but I have no confirmation of that.
In case you think I made out OK, I didn't.  It was my wife's only chance to visit Russia and meet all my friends and other Russians  she had met in U.S. She became sick and died before we could go again. It was the only time I ever saw her cry.

[Wayne]

That is a very sad story! It just shows you that no matter what happens to you, there is someone else that had it worse!
 
I am just glad that I did not drive 8 hours to Chicago, wait in the crowd for them to appear and then contact LOT to find out they did not let them board.

[Faux Pas]

LOT told them that there was difference between a 2-year, conditional green card and a 10-year.
 
That the 10-year could be out of country up to 12 months--but the 2-year only 6 months.
 
I can not find anything, anywhere proving that! As I said before, the 2-year has all the same rights as the 10-year, except you need to remove conditions on the 2-year to get the 10-year.
 
The following is from USCIS;[/font][/size]

If You Are a Conditional Resident

You may be in the U.S. as a conditional resident (CR).
You are a CR if you were married for less than two

years to your U.S. citizen or permanent resident spouse

on the day your permanent resident status was granted.

If you have children, they also may be CRs. Some immigrant

investors are also conditional residents.

A CR has the same rights and responsibilities as a permanent

resident.

Conditional residents must file either

Form I-751, Petition to Remove the Conditions on

Residence, or Form I-829, Petition by Entrepreneur to

Remove Conditions, within two years of the date they

were granted conditional permanent resident status. This

date is usually the expiration date of your Permanent

Resident Card.You should file these forms within 90

days of the two-year anniversary of when you got your

conditional resident status. If you do not do this, you

can lose your immigration status.
 
Again, LOT told her that a conditional resident can only be out of country for 6 months. My wife lost her composure and did not stand up for herself. She believed what LOT told her and gave up!
 
Now, I am stubborn and want my money back!

Wayne, you're preaching to the choir. If, in fact, it all transpired just as your wife is telling you LOT owes you a full refund and likely compensation for the mistake and undue stressed placed on your wife for their ignorance. Gate agents for most any airline that flies to the U.S. is going to know and be versed on the required documentation. Unlikely would any make up their own rules just to deny someone boarding. Perhaps it all transpired just as she told you. If so, and I were you, I'd be on the phone to LOT demanding restitution and that they get her in the next available seat.

Don't jerk around with getting her conditions removed. Get her here and get the biometrics completed and your paperwork submitted. They won't send you an extension on the one already she's already gotten. USCIS can and likely will drag their feet on your next interview and the fact she has been gone for 9 months won't help your case. If she winds up "out of status" you'll have to start all over again from the 2 year temp card. Not a good option

[Muckraker]

Presumption of abandonment of permanent residence status if out of the US for six months or more. Rebuttable presumption, if less than one year, but airline doesn't care. LOT can refuse carriage on the basis of insufficient travel documents.

Muck

[cc3]

Presumption of abandonment of permanent residence status if out of the US for six months or more. Rebuttable presumption, if less than one year, but airline doesn't care. LOT can refuse carriage on the basis of insufficient travel documents.

Muck

Great user name! But I'm curious: 8 years on this forum and only 107 posts? Don't worry, it's a kindly curiosity!