More Bad News for Russia

[msmobyone]

msmobyone,
 I have previously stated that I will not post links here any more. I'm very sure that I'd get nailed for "copyright infringement"  rule violations if I used 2 or more of the same words from the article.  That's just the way it seems to work.
 So no link , no problem. I'm just discussing the facts from the news sources.

Use Google and find then the same way I do.

Do you feel that excuses your inaccurately portraying the situation ?

[AkMike]

The only problem is that you assumed that there were two bridges instead of one built to handle both rail and road traffic. 

[msmobyone]

The only problem is that you assumed that there were two bridges instead of one built to handle both rail and road traffic.

 

I assumed nothing - there are two bridges

I know 'coz this ad gets played to death...48 seconds should set yourself beating your own head with your very own 'cluebat'...

[fathertime]

msmobyone,
 I have previously stated that I will not post links here any more. I'm very sure that I'd get nailed for "copyright infringement"  rule violations if I used 2 or more of the same words from the article.  That's just the way it seems to work.
 So no link , no problem. I'm just discussing the facts from the news sources.

Use Google and find then the same way I do.

Obviously you are full of it regarding links and your 'inability' to use them here.   Through a link, msmobyone has provided evidence that you are making things up, which is normally the case. 


Fathertime!

[msmobyone]

Obviously you are full of it regarding links and your 'inability' to use them here.   Through a link, msmobyone has provided evidence that you are making things up, which is normally the case. 


Fathertime!

FT,

I was not rubbing AKM's nose in it - just seeking to ensure all members knew the facts ... My reaction was sl. OTT - when he used the 'cluebat - avoiding the fact he had already posted 'bollox' about the state of construction - only to compound it with another howler about the design..

I do not want his mistake to be used for the likes of you to 'join in'... IMHO for a guy who has never been to these parts - you often post  'clueless ' -I just ignore you, mostly ..

[fathertime]

FT,

I was not rubbing AKM's nose in it - just seeking to ensure all members knew the facts ... My reaction was sl. OTT - when he used the 'cluebat - avoiding the fact he had already posted 'bollox' about the state of construction - only to compound it with another howler about the design..

I do not want his mistake to be used for the likes of you to 'join in'... IMHO for a guy who has never been to these parts - you often post  'clueless ' -I just ignore you, mostly ..

Believe me, I think you are often full of crap, so don't worry about 'joining in'!  In this particular case, you provided a link, and Mr "Cluebat" used a worn out excuse to not back his comment up.


Fathertime!   

[AkMike]

We'll just have to wait and see who's right. Simple?   

 Based from the news images that I've seen and your cartoon.. it may be interesting...

[msmobyone]

We'll just have to wait and see who's right. Simple?   

AKMike



You are just - simply - wrong - on two counts -

1/ the construction has not 'stopped' ...
2/ it's TWO bridges.. the only ASSuming was your inability to check..

Google owns youtube and we can clearly see - if you actually bothered to search - it must have been 'selectively'.




Now, it - indeed - seems necessary to 'rub your nose in it'...

This is Ukrainian news confirming the design...

http://www.unian.info/economics/1095399-russia-approves-blueprints-for-crimean-bridge-across-kerch-strait.html

Are you one of those people who delight in arguing that the earth is flat ?

[AkMike]

From your link," According to the approved blueprints, the bridge crossing consists of parallel road and rail sections."

 Notice that it says THE bridge.. Singular not plural.

 It doesn't say the bridges!  It's a single bridges with dual rail and road use like I said.

[AkMike]

I noticed that I had a typo in the last sentence of my prior post. I meant bridge.. Singular and I am talking about the main span over the Kerch Strait not the access bridges.

[msmobyone]

From your link," According to the approved blueprints, the bridge crossing consists of parallel road and rail sections."

 Notice that it says THE bridge.. Singular not plural.

 It doesn't say the bridges!  It's a single bridges with dual rail and road use like I said.

OK..you are now taking obtuse to a new level..

it seems the coup de grace is necessary..

http://uatoday.tv/society/reuters-russia-pushes-back-putin-s-bridge-to-annexed-crimea-by-a-year-630176.html


1/ construction 'stopped' - wrong- ''Construction of the road part is on schedule, but Reuters has learned that the rail segment deadline has been put back by a year''

2/ the design- AKMike said ''you assumed that there were two bridges instead of one built to handle both rail and road traffic.''

FACT..My 'assumption' was bang on ..''Extending 19 km (11.8 miles), the project, which will be two separate parallel structures ..''   

However, you try to spin it..you got busted - that you can't man up and admit it. is illuminating and hardly flattering..

[Brasscasing]

I assumed nothing - there are two bridges

I know 'coz this ad gets played to death...48 seconds should set yourself beating your own head with your very own 'cluebat'...

Uh, no. There are not two bridges...or one bridge for that matter. There are no bridges, rail, vehicular or otherwise.

What there is, according to images taken in the last few days, looks something like this...



What you've linked is a conceptualization.

These CG'd pie in the ski vids are effective propaganda (there's a number of them on line) for mollifying the Russian sheeple, however, that's all they are - conceptualized propaganda.

None of it actually exists and probably never will. Case in point...

Confederation Bridge



Construction time 40 months. Built by hundreds of professional engineers, trades people and world class bridge construction experts/consultants. Length 12.9km guardrail to guardrail.

Putin's egotistical imagination and propaganda exercise...



Putin's must build by construction time - 31 months. To be built by Putin's former Judo partner who is unable to (because of sanctions) hire international sub contractors with the bridge construction expertise and engineering skills to build  or consult on said project in the first place. Length (estimated) 19kms.

...Not gonna happen.

Brass

[BillyB]

Is that photo representative of how they plan on building the bridge? To build a tower crane at every column? I don't know if there are enough tower cranes in Russia to place at every column and to do so is an inefficient way to build that type of bridge. It's going to take them a very long time to complete. Video below is the right way to build that type of bridge. Start at the 2:50 mark to understand why no tower cranes are needed to build the bridge. Can Russian engineers be clueless? I doubt it. The photo is probably propaganda.

[msmobyone]

Uh, no. There are not two bridges...or one bridge for that matter. There are no bridges, rail, vehicular or otherwise.

Now, I am no fan of Putin - but suggesting  construction hasn't started just isn't correct.... There are temporary bridges - under construction ...  I've seen them with my own eyes - from 7000m up

What you've linked is a conceptualization.

No-one disputes that.. It was illustrating that there will be two bridges.

These CG'd pie in the ski vids are effective propaganda (there's a number of them on line) for mollifying the Russian sheeple, however, that's all they are - conceptualized propaganda.

Brass - I've already pointed out that the vid I posted has been running on most RU tv channels ..Peak time ..Since before the new year ..

It is very effective at building up the 'pride factor'... and will also make VVP look like an idiot - if the project doesn't come to fruition. Most westerners do not comprehend the level of respect / pride Putin has managed to make most Russians feel - esp over  'regaining' Crimea.

When I was asked what advert was the most annoying I'd ever seen - I mentioned this one - asking'' aren't you bored of seeing it ?'' ...To be greeted by open-mouths, silence and incredulity... 

None of it actually exists and probably never will.


Putin's egotistical imagination and propaganda exercise...



...Not gonna happen.

I saw the images in a US newspaper of how Sochi has fallen into 'decay' post Olympics - showing the biggest stadium being 'dismantled' - when the fact is the roof is being adjusted to be open for the 2018 world cup.. I'm afraid the ruskies aren't the only ones that indulge in  propaganda... you are an unknowing 'victim'

I know Russia can't really afford it - Most nations hosting Olympics - and creating the infrastructure necessary -  never really make a profit ...I know that the Crimea link project has already had faction fights - but I'll wager anyone that it will get built ..

As I said, construction has started and if it doesn't happen - it will be Putin's folly

[AkMike]

Moby, have a look at Russia Insider, 1/7/17 titled , "Superb Virtual Presentation of Planned Crimea Bridge to Mainland"  This is what they've got on the books from what I've seen. And yes I know it's a cartoon also. But it's the most cost effective way to make a bridge of this size.

 Since they've said that there is a structural design problem a road bridge just cannot be built. The base structure is at fault and one can't be built without the other.   Think of a 2X4 tarpaper shack and building a skyscraper using that as a foundation. That is a similar yet exaggerated example of the base foundation needed to support the Kerch Bridge.

[Brasscasing]

Is that photo representative of how they plan on building the bridge? To build a tower crane at every column? I don't know if there are enough tower cranes in Russia to place at every column and to do so is an inefficient way to build that type of bridge. It's going to take them a very long time to complete. Video below is the right way to build that type of bridge. Start at the 2:50 mark to understand why no tower cranes are needed to build the bridge. Can Russian engineers be clueless? I doubt it. The photo is probably propaganda.

I took that pic off the net, Billy. It's one of dozens conceptualized images of Putin's folly. Whether or not it's representative of how the Russians might actually attempt to build the bridge I have no idea. But yes, it is most certainly propaganda as we both know it would take almost as long to sink and build the pylons for overhead cranes as it would for the structure itself.

Great video and a good representation of how large spans could/would be built.

Brass

[AkMike]

Brass the piers/pylons could easily be sunk and anchored by cranes mounted on barges also.

[msmobyone]

These damn ruskies.. their tv news from last night showed the very things I saw from the plane... How DO they project such stuff to fool my eyes ?

http://news.mail.ru/economics/25473928/

Once again - they are building temp. bridges to build the main ones..

[msmobyone]

Moby, have a look at Russia Insider, 1/7/17 titled , "Superb Virtual Presentation of Planned Crimea Bridge to Mainland"  This is what they've got on the books from what I've seen. And yes I know it's a cartoon also. But it's the most cost effective way to make a bridge of this size.

 Since they've said that there is a structural design problem a road bridge just cannot be built. The base structure is at fault and one can't be built without the other.   Think of a 2X4 tarpaper shack and building a skyscraper using that as a foundation. That is a similar yet exaggerated example of the base foundation needed to support the Kerch Bridge.

AKMike,

the 'structural problem' is with the RAIL bridge.. the target date for completion of the ROAD bridge - yes  to remind you - two separate structures - is still scheduled for  18th  Dec 2108

This is your link http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/01/07/2260

You meant 7/1/15 - why can't you guys write dates, properly ? 

This concept was not the final design that was 'approved' ... RI uses 'trusted' stringers who are allowed to post stuff that often turns out to be so much 'bollox' ...

[AkMike]

Consider that the set of pylons on the right are temporary access to build the main bridge.

 Notice that they are at water level, hardly enough clearance for ship traffic IMHO. Kayaks or canoes maybe.

[AkMike]

You meant 7/1/15 - why can't you guys write dates, properly ? 

 I stand corrected! A typo on my part. I meant to write, 1/7/15..  Not 17  BTW, That's correct and  we drive on the right side of the road too. 

[msmobyone]

Consider that the set of pylons on the right are temporary access to build the main bridge.

 Notice that they are at water level, hardly enough clearance for ship traffic IMHO. Kayaks or canoes maybe.

The bridge you see being constructed is the TEMP bridge - to make the big ones... If you watch the vid I posted you'll see a cruise liner [  ] heading under the raised section to allow access to shipping ...

[msmobyone]

I stand corrected! A typo on my part. I meant to write, 1/7/15..  Not 17 

Naturally, you'll know I meant how you write the dates - the format ..not the typo..

  we drive on the right side of the road too. 

So do the Russians and the Chinese - sometimes - how could this be allowed to happen ?

[Brasscasing]

Now, I am no fan of Putin - but suggesting  construction hasn't started just isn't correct.... There are temporary bridges - under construction ...  I've seen them with my own eyes - from 7000m up

Yes there are. However, they are not the bridge. They are temporary construction spans to reach the construction site (apparently)...

..."Mainland Russia is one step closer to a direct link to Crimea. Workers are building temporary bridges that will carry construction machinery and deliver materials to the Kerch bridge site. Eventually there will be three bridges, one is already working."...

http://www.rt.com/business/317368-russia-crimea-kerch-bridge/

If you've seen them then so be it. What I noted on one propaganda vid was so-called bridge construction which was clearly pipeline construction, lol.

No-one disputes that.. It was illustrating that there will be two bridges.

Brass - I've already pointed out that the vid I posted has been running on most RU tv channels ..Peak time ..Since before the new year ..

It is very effective at building up the 'pride factor'... and will also make VVP look like an idiot - if the project doesn't come to fruition. Most westerners do not comprehend the level of respect / pride Putin has managed to make most Russians feel - esp over  'regaining' Crimea.

When I was asked what advert was the most annoying I'd ever seen - I mentioned this one - asking'' aren't you bored of seeing it ?'' ...To be greeted by open-mouths, silence and incredulity... 

No doubt. I just don't think they have the expertise to build it (or if they do it'll be a death trap).

I saw the images in a US newspaper of how Sochi has fallen into 'decay' post Olympics - showing the biggest stadium being 'dismantled' - when the fact is the roof is being adjusted to be open for the 2018 world cup.. I'm afraid the ruskies aren't the only ones that indulge in  propaganda... you are an unknowing 'victim'

I know Russia can't really afford it - Most nations hosting Olympics - and creating the infrastructure necessary -  never really make a profit ...I know that the Crimea link project has already had faction fights - but I'll wager anyone that it will get built ..

As I said, construction has started and if it doesn't happen - it will be Putin's folly

I don't know about "unknowing" victim. I'm pretty good at identifying western based propaganda when I see it. 

There is a difference between preparing a work site/project and actually building. I would take issue with "construction has started". I would say they're making a lot of noise over the fact they're dancing around preparations to begin construction.

But then I'm clearly not a fan of Putin either.

Brass

[AkMike]

Brass, if you're talking about the pictures of uncoated pipe stacked up, that's probably material for the pylons. I am surprised that it isn't epoxy coated before they drive it down.  It's the only way allowed here.  That extends the useful life of the structure many fold.