Update - 13 years later

[TomT]

...I have decided not to answer her calls, before I go to visit her on the last one of my remaining days, before going home.

Unfortunately, as lonedrake implied, this reads very much like the behavior of a user.

[jone]

I don't see how else one could interpret this except that the story line being promoted here is completely self serving. 

When I realized, after he had told us of his beautiful love story between he and his (current) wife that he was divorcing her and going to chapter two on our dime,  I could not quite understand how selfish he was.  It was hard to take in, hard to believe.

I think that the only person he is deceiving is himself.  I would bet that everyone else has him figured out.   I don't believe that there is anyone on this forum that feels sorry for you, Northkape.  But what a fricking tragedy for your children. 

I realize that sport fucking is the craze when a marriage is breaking up, but a real man puts aside his own needs and realizes that the commitment that he made to his family far outweighs any needs that he, personally, might have.

Maybe you should believe in a God.  You certainly need someone to atone for your transgressions.   Obviously, you don't think you need to do it yourself.

 

[Ade]

Maybe you should believe in a God.  You certainly need someone to atone for your transgressions.   Obviously, you don't think you need to do it yourself.

Don't be silly. Those that believe in a god don't have a monopoly on morality and I've met many religious people that fall far short of the generally accepted mark and are hypocrites to boot.


As for Northkape. Yes, he's a user and selfish. He probably doesn't see it like that and perhaps he ever thinks he's a really nice guy. Incredible how blind some people are. I wonder if mies is close to the truth and that his soon to be ex-wife feels somehow coerced into helping him find another woman. Even if she's messed up in the head (as messed up she'd have to be as this is not normal behaviour) and doing this willingly, I can't imagine that a man with character would use her and take advantage of her and her family this way. And then there is the using of women under false pretenses all over Ukraine.


Northkape, if we met I'm sure you'd come across as a nice guy. I'm fairly sure you'd think the same of me. But, if the topic of this tread came up in discussion I would give you my opinion in real life as I've done here. You can take that any way you want but if you think that straight, honest opinions make me a bad person then so be it. I can tell you now though, I would never do what you're doing to your wife, her family, your kids and the women you are screwing around with in Ukraine. So if I'm a bad person, where does that place you on the curve?


I also wouldn't be delusional enough to believe that a 30-something would be hot for my 58 year old body.

[northkape]

Lonedrake

Thanks for taking your time to answer.

Whatever you read out of my previous story, I still think that this part was unnecessarily rude:

Nice! You can screw her for a couple of days and then leave without saying goodbye.
You are too busy to talk to her now and you think she will forget about this? You will go there and have sex...an argument will ensue and you will leave.....mad and putting the blame on her.....most likely without saying goodbye.

The rest of it was not to far off.
Some backtracking to things I wrote about earlier just to clarify......

When going to Ukraine this summer my plan was to have relatively short meetings with as many as possible of the women interested in meeting with me.
A short intro over a cup of coffee to peg interest, and then a second longer one if both parties wanted it.
I tried to keep calm and not agree to more than a single second meeting for obvious reasons.
Doing so would break my schedule and make it impossible to meet all of those I really wanted to meet with.
It was specifically important to avoid having sex as that would most certainly ruin my plans.
All the way to the final destination Kiev, I somehow kept my schedule. But I lost control and failed there with Kiev32.

When arriving at home we spoke on the phone daily, for several weeks, till one day when I got very frustrated with her.
Telling her that I couldn't see much reason for us to continue.
And also how it would be better for us to think about all of it, and maybe get in touch again after a month or two.
That's what happened approximately a month before my last trip, we picked up the line again and started over with clean sheets.

This is what I wrote here about meeting her again:
She knew I was coming to Kiev and I had to promised to visit her,, a very difficult decision to make,,
as I knew exactly what would happen as soon as she opened the door.

I had a well made plan on a tight schedule and was torn between her and executing my plan.
She knew all about this and also understands very well what needs to be solved before we can agree on building a future together.
In my opinion we hadn't made much progress since summer, making me feel very uncertain about making any decisions at this point.
So I left her, and did say goodbye, but not kissing her goodbye, if you go reread my writings.

For the rest of this trip I followed my schedule to the point..

I did meet with her again and we were talking with each other on Skype as recently as yesterday evening.
More later.

About my life with Lena and our divorce,,
any sane and polite person here, is free to call her and ask her directly,, I will not give the number, but where in the justice department she works, then it is possible to call there and ask for her by name. She speaks fluent Russian, Ukrainian, Norwegian and good English also.

Through all my history here I told the truth about everything, verified by photos in such a way that it is easy to find me and my history on Google.
I am not afraid of who I am and my history, in stark contrast to all of those here that hide there names, age, location and so on.

[Ade]

any sane and polite person here, is free to call her and ask her directly,

 


Dude, do you honestly think she will welcome such unsolicited calls? Inviting strangers on the net like that on her behalf is just nuts.

[LiveFromUkraine]

 


Dude, do you honestly think she will welcome such unsolicited calls? Inviting strangers on the net like that on her behalf is just nuts.

Maybe he is trying to return the favor and set her up with someone from here? 

[lonedrake]

And also how it would be better for us to think about all of it, and maybe get in touch again after a month or two.

 You are just stinging her along so you can continue to see if something better comes along. Your plans changed,but yet you want to continue on like nothing happened between the two of you(i.e. chemistry,love whatever).  Take responsibility for your actions and give this woman the respect she deserves. STOP meeting other women and give this relationship your undivided attention. You think she will not be resentful of what you are doing?

 I understand nobody is perfect and we all make mistakes and it is also difficult to explain situations online, but you need to step back and look at things from her perspective. How would you feel?

You have already said that you fell in love with her. Now I am not sure what your definition of love is.....but your actions are not what I would consider love. I doubt she does either.

[mies]

Mies,

yes, Jone, you are right, my apologies that I missed your post about children. I cannot agree more with you.

[mies]

Mies...
What did I ever say to make you want to use such words.....?
I'm sure you have a somewhat nicer personality in real life.
Why then use of your free time to berate someone you have never met and know little or nothing about?

NorthKape, I am sorry, but that was a nicer version of me giving the response. What the not-so-nice version of me would say about this story none of us wants to hear, me including.
Does your wife date anyone? Do her new boyfriends call you and have long conversations with you and ask many questions about your family life? Do you go to lingerie shops with your wife to help her pick lingerie for her dates with the new guys?  Does she post on the web stories about you telling all details about your work, and your family life, and your children, and posts photos of you and your children and family/relatives there as well? Have you met her ex-boyfriends? Had she invited her ex-boyfriends to your wedding and parties? Has she brought to Norway an album with photos of her and her ex's together?

And if she doesn't do this to you, why in the world do you think it's OK to do this to her?
You know, there are two types of people. The first type, when they see a nice person, they think "this person is nice, and I will be treating them nice too, and will not be taking advantage of them although I know I can." And then there is a second type of people, who think "let me find a nice person so that I can do anything I want and get away with it." And from your posts you look like a second type. I can easily believe that you are a nice person too, and are doing everything you are doing as the saying goes "with a smile." Because you are always positive and optimistic, and that's what attracts other people to you. How can you not understand that you are hurting people around you?

[GQBlues]

Maybe he is trying to return the favor and set her up with someone from here? 

We'll you just incited at least a dozen pensioner members to foam at their mouths at that idea.

[Gator]

Through all my history here I told the truth about everything, verified by photos in such a way that it is easy to find me and my history on Google.
I am not afraid of who I am and my history, in stark contrast to all of those here that hide there names, age, location and so on.

It is true that most here reveal little about themselves and even less about their wife or girlfriend.  That is their decision.  It does concern me that some of these stealth members do not hesitate about sticking their nose in other people's lives and making sweeping sometimes harsh conclusions.   


The fact you provide personal and verifiable details does give credence to your story.  However, I tend to take at face value what people post.  And I believe you when you say you are not on a sexual quest. 
 

Nevertheless, your openness does not make your story less peculiar, so peculiar as to be bizarre. 

I understand after a long marriage with children that you need to proceed patiently before making strong commitments.    It seems you are merely doing window shopping instead of trying on everything you see (with an exception or two).     I commend you because many men and women jump into a new relationship before concluding the prior one and before deciding what is best for their life. 

My one  criticism of you is that you have not concluded your divorce.  Even after you divorce, she will still be the mother of your children.  This will necessitate some continuing connection which you welcome, yet you need to sever everything else and return to single life.    That would be best for your ex-wife, best for the UW you meet, and best for yourself.

I have been in your shoes, married with children.  At the 20-year mark, it was clear that our marriage was doomed.  It took another 5 years to conclude it.  It would have been better for all if we had done it sooner, even though we were as amicable as you and your wife (my ex-wife also wanted to help me with finding a girlfriend ).   We sincerely cared about each other, and such lingering thoughts interfered with my having a true relationship with other women. 


The same as you I avoided getting into serious relationships.  Along the way, some impatient women left me, women who perhaps would have been good for me for the long-term.    Nevertheless, today I am married and have never been happier.  My RW wife was worth the long search. 

Returning to your story:   It is absurd to suggest that we call your wife.  However, if we did what do you believe she would say?   In particular, why are the two of you divorcing?  I will appreciate your guess as to what she would say. 
   

I also would like to know what you would want in your future wife, if you married again, that is better than the mother of your children.  Frankly, she seems like a delightful, well adjusted woman.


 

[Faux Pas]

I think that the only person he is deceiving is himself.  I would bet that everyone else has him figured out.   I don't believe that there is anyone on this forum that feels sorry for you, Northkape.  But what a fricking tragedy for your children. 

I realize that sport fucking is the craze when a marriage is breaking up, but a real man puts aside his own needs and realizes that the commitment that he made to his family far outweighs any needs that he, personally, might have.

This is the part I just really do not get. North speaks fondly of his current wife. Without looking back to quote him, he was even doting to a large degree. Even though he stated that he has fell out of love with his wife, he still loves her. He has went on in detail about what a wonderful mother, wife and woman she is. Unless there is something else he isn't telling, this makes no sense to me but, it ain't my life.

North believes he is a good father and very well maybe but, breaking up the family even as amicable and painless as he is attempting to make it, doesn't reflect that he is either a good father or husband. I see it as he is being quite selfish. The women he is stringing along is one thing but more importantly is what he's doing to his family IMHO. It reeks of a man in a mid-life crisis.

Sorry North, in attempting to appeal to your moral fabric, as a husband to a woman that apparently still loves you (why else would she put up with this stuff) a woman by your own descriptions is a wonderful person and mother but more importantly what you are doing to those boys is inexcusable. IMHO as the father and husband you should be protecting them from what you are exposing them to.
 

[LiveFromUkraine]

We'll you just incited at least a dozen pensioner members to foam at their mouths at that idea.

Viva La Viagra

[GQBlues]

Just one more example in the many realities of the MOB.

Unfortunately, both Ukraine and the rest of the MOB regional, it doesn't say much about its women when you read the manner in which many of these relationship are handled, managed and consummated by it's participants.

[jone]

I guess we shouldn't expect more.  After all, the great majority of men on this site come from failed relationships.  Myself included.

However, for reasons that Mies pointed out above (nice post Mies) this thread is more offensive than most because it details a history of an exceedingly selfish man, deluding himself and injuring people as he travels through his tale all the while assuming the guise of respectability.

As for Ade, I made no opinion on the existence of a supreme being.  I simply opined that the OP needed someone to atone for his misdeeds (something that is intrinsic to the Christian, Jewish and Islamic faiths - and they claim to do) because he certainly wasn't going to be doing it himself.

[Faux Pas]

A mid life crisis driven by carnal lust has no morals, loyalty or conscience I suppose

[GQBlues]

Yeah, but at least he's not driving around Ukraine in a typical two-seater convertible...

[The Natural]

It is true that most here reveal little about themselves and even less about their wife or girlfriend.  That is their decision.  It does concern me that some of these stealth members do not hesitate about sticking their nose in other people's lives and making sweeping sometimes harsh conclusions.   

True words and I concur. And it really ticks me off receiving harsh judgements from online people without faces. Of the very few on this site that I have seen the face of, I value their input, but the others just makes noise like bad radio interference.
 
About the thread here made by my fellow Norwegian I won't say too much as I don't know the whole story and there are several acid comments that tend to colour the reader. But if what I've read so far and understand is to believed, I would have to say I personally would have done it otherwise. Wife, Lena, is a total knockout and is, what... 35-36? Of course looks aren't everything but as one at the age of 48 who was blessed by God to get a perfect son, I would say two of them should be more than a good reason to settle some differences and stay together. In my way of thinking, there is absolutely nothing else, career, adventure, arguments or whatever, that is remotely as important as your own flesh and blood.
 
Again, this is just some thoughts based on inadequate information and I do tend to cheer for the underdog, in this case the guy who's bashed by faceless handles on the internet, but on the other hand, I have to admit the story is not presented as a wholesome tale. But the Almighty will be the final judge no matter if people believe in Him or not.

[northkape]

I have to say,, upon reviewing the remarkable resurrection of vivid imagination among posters in this thread,
that I feel somewhat honored being here as the principal grading and writing remarks to his college freshmen’s first time explication of MacBeth

Lonedrake

It's not as simple as it looks from the outside.
Kiev32 is a part of the problem and she knows it.
She has a full understanding of my situation and we have agreed together on what we are doing.

I will continue searching at least till she makes up her mind about how to proceed with our relationship.
She really want's to be with me, but at the same time she is very afraid of losing all that she has fought so hard for,
taking her boy out of his familiar private school, and also leaving behind all of her family and everything that is familiar to her.
At the same time, she fully understands that I can’t take my boys and come to live with her.
Also she can’t understand herself, why she is so attracted to me, she never had relationships with older men earlier in her life.
We had «no» contact before our meeting.
When arriving in Kiev, I dropped of a form letter to her and many others, to stuff my schedule with extra meetings.
Stating that I was in Kiev, with free time available for a cup of coffee with a woman interested in practicing her English.
Well, she replied, telling me that she had an hour or so after work, a meeting that turned into a full five days.

There is also one other thing that complicated our relationship, making it even harder for her.
Unfortunately I met with her young boy at the last day of our meeting.
It was instant love,, and this is a young boy that really wants a father, nagging his mother constantly about it.

l always loved children and they love me, it’s sort of a magnetic reaction.

For this reason I tried to avoid meeting a woman’s child whenever possible, because I knew that this would skew her opinion of me.
I wouldn’t want a woman choosing me because of my relationship with her child.

more later

[Patagonie]

Hi
Keep writing.
There are not a lot of trip report and they are valuable.
Stay on your feet and let us informed about what's going on.

I have seen me sometimes weak, i have done perhaps sometimes or more than sometimes things not glorious. I felt ashamed but all along the life i met so many people  who did worse or not better for a variety of reasons. I saw them, i saw their redemption, i tried to understand circumstances, and more i  asking myself what i would have done better ?  i understood that in a life you can do something wrong and suddenly i understood that life needs to be continued and that normality is just question of very personal opinion which depends of the moment. And they are many moments in life... the prosecution can change of hands very quickly.
Nothing is more fragile than the truth with which you own the world. 

[missAmeno]

Northkape, even if your wife is telling you she is fine with what you are doing and happy to support you in your plans, you should have never put her through this. Many people when care ready to accept and support regardless how it makes them feel. You are hurting her feelings, she will never admit it, she will put a brave face on and say what she thinks you want to hear because she wants you to be happy.
Haven't you thought about why she doesn't want to re-marry again?

Same with your sons. The day they grow up and understand what you did will come.


Come to your senses, ask mods to remove any personal details/info about your wife/kids. Life will go forward and all this BS about them will stay for many many years on net, they the ones who will have to live with it if it is not cleaned up. You should be protecting them.

[jone]

Miss A speaks with great wisdom.  I realize that I have been openly critical of NorthKape, but I post, many times, imagining my daughter or son reading what I write.  It is amazing how that changes one's perspective.

Those of you who are encouraging this trip report do so at the peril of this man's extended family. 

[lonedrake]

I will continue searching at least till she makes up her mind about how to proceed with our relationship.

 She doesn't trust you. You must stop meeting other women and reassure her that you are serious. If you keep meeting other women why would she trust you?

 Just put yourself in her shoes.

 

[missAmeno]

I will continue searching at least till she makes up her mind about how to proceed with our relationship.
She really want's to be with me, but at the same time she is very afraid of losing all that she has fought so hard for,
taking her boy out of his familiar private school, and also leaving behind all of her family and everything that is familiar to her.
At the same time, she fully understands that I can’t take my boys and come to live with her.
Also she can’t understand herself, why she is so attracted to me, she never had relationships with older men earlier in her life.

Northkape, read what you wrote and have a think about it. In case you fail, here is a little clue that may help you.

You are not even ready to consider possibility moving to Ukraine but at the same time demand instant decision from her to leave everything behind and move to your country.

Are you serious? You expect someone who have seen you only for few days decide to leave own country and build future with you? How about proving you are worth leaving anything behind? How about getting to know each other enough to decide if you two right for each other to build future together?

Your ego is bigger than Boeing Everett Factory.

There is also one other thing that complicated our relationship, making it even harder for her.
Unfortunately I met with her young boy at the last day of our meeting.
It was instant love,, and this is a young boy that really wants a father, nagging his mother constantly about it.

l always loved children and they love me, it’s sort of a magnetic reaction.

For this reason I tried to avoid meeting a woman’s child whenever possible, because I knew that this would skew her opinion of me.
I wouldn’t want a woman choosing me because of my relationship with her child.

You have met her child on the day 5 after a cup of coffee you two had that lasted over 4 days.  It is obvious she was attracted to you way before you have met her child. It is not a top secret that women do not introduce every guy they have met for coffee (even if that coffee lasted for 5 days) to their child/children. So after she have made a step forward to build relationship you decided it is not good enough. She must be ready instantly to drop everything and plan her future with you and to speed up process she must be aware while she is deciding to drop everything for you or not you will cruise Ukraine looking for something better than her.
What a caring wonderful nature you have   

[northkape]

I wonder sometimes when reading the comments....
If it is the vivid imagination of other posters that is commented, or what I have written in my story.

Just to clarify again.....
Lena wanted a divorce a year ago,,,,
She had warned me several times in the preceding year about the problems in our relationship.
At the time, I felt unable to correct all of it alone, but still didn't think she would actually go as far as wanting to divorce.
I tried to persuade her to stay for a few more years to help the transition for the boys, but she wouldn't listen.

We had long discussions about how to solve all the practical sides of it.
I agreed to take the main custody for the boys as it would be easier for me than for her.
And boys were already together with me most of the time, weekdays and weekends.
Also she could continue her career in Oslo, which would have been impossible for her being alone with the boys.
She bought an apartment in the center of Oslo 1st. of August to live there permanently,
and having the boys stay with her every weekend, and most of their holidays.
So far she has stayed partly together with us all week, driving back and forth to Oslo, 100 km away.
We are planning to spend this Christmas together also, as it probably is our last Christmas together.
-
I also explained for Lena that I would look for a new wife in our family, to the best for me and my boys.
A decision she fully supported as she knows how much I like doing things together as a full family.
In her opinion it is also important for the well being of our boys and a great help for her also.

These are extracts from my earlier posts:
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Exactly what happened this afternoon when my Lady from Kiev chatted with Lena on the phone for almost an hour.

There will be no or very little pain for the boys the way me and Lena have arranged it.
I'm together with them several hours every day and know them very well.
And no, Lena isn't helping me finding a new wife,,,,,,
She helped me call some prospects because of my limited Russian.

Me and Lena are rather pragmatic in behavior, and our divorce was a final decision before the end of last year.
At the end of february I decided to marry again and registered at a long list of dating sites (also Scandinavian)
Knowing how long it took me to find and marry with Lena, I found it best to start writing sooner rather than later.

I prefer to live in a close family, where we are doing things together. Wether it is household duties or traveling.
In my opinion, I see this as the best solution for my boys also.
A decision Lena fully supports for the sake of the boys, as they will be living more with me than with her.
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

I don't know what kind of relationships others have, but I could never have Lena talk with someone if she didn’t want to.
Lena has been talking once on the phone, with one lady (Kiev32) about things related to life in Norway
And she would gladly talk with any woman serious about marrying me.
She has a lot to gain from being friendly with this woman, and will do her best to build a friendly relationship with my future wife. 

Mies..
I am not sure, but it seems so to me,,
that you think you understand what kind of life and personal relationship Lena and I have, based on a few photos and what little I have been writing here.
I have no power to convince you one way or another about the actual reality, other than to suggest, that you read my words with a little less prejudice.
I wouldn't feel upset about anything in your hypothetical questions and mostly Lena wouldn't either from the other side.
We are rather pragmatic persons with no place for jealousy or fear of what others might say or think about us, especially for me, but for Lena also.

Gator..
Not absurd for someone not afraid of their own mankind,,
I would of course have told her to expect the call, and she would have answered the questions truthfully seen from her side.

Better,,, that depends, I have met one truly fantastic woman in my life, Lena's mother... smile
I remember thinking, after getting to know her, before I married with her daughter,
If Lena is only half of what her mother is, I have probably found the best possible wife I could ever find.
At the start it looked like I was right, but in later years things changed more than I was able to adjust to.

more later