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Author Topic: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)  (Read 304899 times)

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Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #525 on: April 09, 2020, 08:48:29 AM »

Now the results are showing that Sweden's death rate from Corona is nearly twice that of Denmark's.


ditto between Sweden and Norway.  Compensating for population 2.5-3 times the deaths.

Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #526 on: April 09, 2020, 09:06:54 AM »
The China blame thread is here http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=24254.0


So this is the blame "WE" thread?

Apparently Sweden took exactly the tack that Boris was accused of above.
They had no lockdown, and even used the words survival and let our people contract Corona, develop antibodies, and create a heard resistance for the future.


Sweden has a liberal leader, right? So no problem. If the leader was Conservative, they would get criticized for not following their medical experts advice or get blamed for following their medical experts advice. Conservative leaders can never do right.

Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline LAman

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #527 on: April 09, 2020, 09:15:44 AM »
I understand and totally agree with your points GQ.

But I remain hopeful that this globe-spanning event can turn a wee bit of 'me' into a tiny spark of 'we'.

Unfortunately that can only happen in the very short run.
Human nature is one of self survival, its in the genes, learned over thousands of years. It is why homo sapiens survived/adapted. It is why there is war. It is why people horde, the survival mentality!!
It is Darwin's theory of survival of the fittest. Mother nature has brought on other things like bacteria and virus which keeps the human race from overpopulating. The human mind has thought of ways to extend life, so now we have different illnesses to die from. I wonder what will happen when we start replacing body parts( organs).
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Offline ML

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #528 on: April 09, 2020, 09:17:20 AM »
I wonder what will happen when we start replacing body parts( organs).

I will ask for a bigger . . . .
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Offline ML

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #529 on: April 09, 2020, 09:17:58 AM »
Brain, of course.
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Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #530 on: April 09, 2020, 09:21:18 AM »
I wonder what will happen when we start replacing body parts( organs).

Haven't we been doing such regularly since the 60's?
 :D

Offline msmob

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #531 on: April 09, 2020, 09:42:44 AM »
ditto between Sweden and Norway.  Compensating for population 2.5-3 times the deaths.

I had this discussion with our most prominent Swedish member and I promised I'd re-visit this Swedish outlier tactic  with Nightwish

At the time the UK had proportionally the same number of deaths ..

A week ( or so ) on and Sweden stands at c 800 - pop 10 million  http://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa

The UK stands at c. 8000 ( ten times)                  - pop 70 million  ( 7 times larger ) 


I appreciate comparing neighbours with land borders makes more sense, but if the UK is compared with the US..

24,000 deaths ... ( five times gtr population ) should be 40k - if comparing to the UK ......


Are we comparing nations at the same point in the curve ?







Offline ML

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #532 on: April 09, 2020, 09:48:57 AM »
Death rate per capita is the only sensible way to measure.

Telling absolute numbers is meaningless.

Yes, I agree that where a country is on the curve is important for comparisons.

As I understood it, Sweden and Denmark are at or near same point on curve, and their similar population gives their death rate comparison a good amount of validity.

Stop trying to compare number of deaths.  Only rate per capita is meaningful.
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Offline LAman

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #533 on: April 09, 2020, 09:50:22 AM »
Brain, of course.

That would only mean that a lesser percentage would be functioning!!
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Offline LAman

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #534 on: April 09, 2020, 09:51:51 AM »
Haven't we been doing such regularly since the 60's?
 :D

I don't mean used ones, I mean the new and improved ones!!  )))
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Offline LAman

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #535 on: April 09, 2020, 09:59:00 AM »
Death rate per capita is the only sensible way to measure.

Telling absolute numbers is meaningless.

Yes, I agree that where a country is on the curve is important for comparisons.

As I understood it, Sweden and Denmark are at or near same point on curve, and their similar population gives their death rate comparison a good amount of validity.

Stop trying to compare number of deaths.  Only rate per capita is meaningful.

Death rate per capita doesn't tell you anything but statistics. I would rather know why!!!

Like Italy, 25% of population is over 65, the coronavirus has killed older folks/underlying conditions at a significant rate.
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Offline GQBlues

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #536 on: April 09, 2020, 10:04:27 AM »
Quote from: LaMan
Like Italy, 25% of population is over 65, the coronavirus has killed older folks/underlying conditions at a significant rate.

On the subject of comorbidities, it's becoming apparent classification in causes of death is taking wings for no other reason than money again has become a major part of this crisis.

The numbers we have (apparently) are as follows: Treatment for coronavirus care and hospitalization $13,900.00. ICU care to death, it blooms to $39,000.00. That's per person.

Dr. Fauci was adamant yesterday and referred to this as a 'conspiracy theory'. The opposing view cited that coronavirus death counts are inflated because not of all of them died of the virus, but rather because of underlying medical condition. However, Dr. Fauci contends there's no argument as to the cause of death in this crisis- which is coronavirus. Dr. Brix supported the statement.

Quote from: Dr. Brix
Those individuals will have an underlying condition. But that underlying condition did not cause their acute death when it's related to a COVID infection. In fact, it's the opposite. Having an underlying condition and getting this virus we know is particularly damaging to those individuals.

One prominent doctor in particular rejected this notion. He gave an example, if a person was hit by car and was hospitalized in ICU, and was tested to be positive with coronavirus, eventually died. Is it right to cite the cause of death was due to coronavirus?

There had been a multitude of pushback from the medical community as most of the deaths, they argue, are because of people's underlying medical condition (diabetes, coronary conditions, hypertensions (high blood), pneumonia, etc...) and not because of this virus. Rejecting Dr. Fauci's statement altogether.

Any thoughts?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 10:07:59 AM by GQBlues »
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1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #537 on: April 09, 2020, 10:12:44 AM »

I'm wondering about Germany's death rate per capita. 10 times lower than their neighbors in some cases. Many people who died had underlying medical conditions. When a person dies, does a nation blame it on the underlying condition or COVID-19? Of course some nations deceive but others who are normally honest but don't not want to tell the full truth may want to blame a death on an existing condition instead of COVID-19. Accurate data is important but it seems data from nations are all over the place. We may never learn the full truth about how deadly COVID-19 is.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline LAman

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #538 on: April 09, 2020, 10:55:15 AM »
In looking at anomalies through research I found something interesting.

What are the most traveled nations?

1. China
Goes everywhere!!! Almost twice as much as USA
2. USA
Travels mostly everywhere

Huge gap between these two and following nations

3. Germany
Where do Germans most visit? Austria,France and Spain!!
4. UK
Where do most people in UK visit? Spain, France
5. France
Where do French most visit? Italy
6. Canada
Where do Canadiens most visit? USA
7. Korea
Where do Koreans most visit? Japan and China
8. Italy
Where do Italians most visit? France, Spain and Germany

Anybody see any coincidences here??? In travel of a certain virus?

Guess what the top visited countries in the world???

1. France
2. Spain
3. USA
4. China
5. Italy

Now you can clearly see patterns in flow of the coronavirus!!
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Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #539 on: April 09, 2020, 11:00:27 AM »
Some countries like Italy test posthumously.  Early on Germany did not so some initial deaths may not be represented.  Even if they were included the rate would still be low.

Aside from optimal hospital capacity, they were testing wider, even with only minor symptoms than most other countries AND actively tracking down contact after contact etc etc to isolate.  They are very methodical and follow the plan meticulously.  They are the kind of people that had a plan for this far in advance and were quite prepared for it.  A part of their plan was protecting the elderly, asking them to isolate along with very strict rules in old folk homes etc etc.  Folks listen and obey, even most of the younger crowd.

Urban planning also plays a role.  Although cities are large, most live in many small outlying towns and sections of town that are separated from each other with a lot of green in-between.  Folks pretty much stick to their own section of town which slows down the spread.

So far despite a lot of infections, no huge spikes and mostly the younger folks affected.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 11:03:17 AM by BC »

Online 2tallbill

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #540 on: April 09, 2020, 11:01:00 AM »
Bottom line is the info was in Trump's hands in late November.  The virus spread here well after that.  Personally I don't think much short of a complete lock down would have prevented it. I continue to believe that Trump has decided to prioritize business over saving everybody.  That may just be the lessor of the two evils from his view.

Fathertime!

Except that the report wasn't true! The info was in Trumps hands on
January 3.



Defense Official Shoots Down ABC Report
Alleging Trump Admin Ignored Virus Warnings

ABC is quietly sweeping under the rug their own sensational report they
hyped all day Wednesday, which suggested the Trump administration
ignored warnings of an impending pandemic, back in November.
That report is now in dispute, as the very military intelligence
agency which ABC’s unnamed sources cited, has come out
denying the existence of such an intelligence assessment.

There is more read all about it here
http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/kristine-marsh/2020/04/09/defense-official-shoots-down-abc-report-alleging-trump-admin

US intelligence agencies started tracking coronavirus
outbreak in China as early as November

Intelligence is often only elevated to the highest levels of the
government once analysts and officials reach a certain threshold
of confidence in their assessment.

That day came on January 3, the first day the President's daily briefing
included information the US intelligence community had gathered about
the contagion in China and the potential it had to spread, including to
the US, according to a person briefed on the matter.

There is more read all about it here
http://www.cnn.com/2020/04/08/politics/intel-agencies-covid-november/index.html
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Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #541 on: April 09, 2020, 11:19:00 AM »

China lock down another city. Says infections were imported from Russia so China closes Border with Russia. I don't think China will ever admit again infections increase domestically because they want everybody to believe they have it under control.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-closes-russia-border-puts-new-city-into-wuhan-style-lockdown/ar-BB12mi7f?ocid=spartanntp
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline LAman

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #542 on: April 09, 2020, 11:35:57 AM »
China lock down another city. Says infections were imported from Russia so China closes Border with Russia. I don't think China will ever admit again infections increase domestically because they want everybody to believe they have it under control.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/china-closes-russia-border-puts-new-city-into-wuhan-style-lockdown/ar-BB12mi7f?ocid=spartanntp

You do know Russia closed border to China over a month ago??? What does it matter that China closes a border that is already closed??

Now is that really a 'story'
« Last Edit: April 09, 2020, 11:38:09 AM by LAman »
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Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #543 on: April 09, 2020, 11:44:05 AM »
You do know Russia closed border to China over a month ago??? What does it matter that China closes a border that is already closed??

Now is that really a 'story'

Russia closed the border with China in January. Closed doesn't mean entirely closed. Russia won't allow Chinese nationals to enter Russia but will let those who are in Russia return home.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline LAman

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #544 on: April 09, 2020, 11:55:48 AM »
Russia closed the border with China in January. Closed doesn't mean entirely closed. Russia won't allow Chinese nationals to enter Russia but will let those who are in Russia return home.

So in your mind, closed doesn't always mean closed.

So China closing border doesn't mean entirely closed either?? So why say it?
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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #545 on: April 09, 2020, 12:06:03 PM »
in the post-crash world, there is no morality, no guiding principles,
no way to stop the inexorable slide toward a life without the institutions that keep America from looking like scenes from The Road Warrior...
and I fully embrace it....

there will be two kinds of people...
those who do "unto others"
and those that have it done to them...

Offline ML

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #546 on: April 09, 2020, 12:08:00 PM »
Russia can close its border, which usually means they don't let people in.

This may not mean they won't let people out.

So, perhaps, people could still go from Russia to China.

In that case, it would make sense for China to close that very same border, to keep people from entering China.

e.g. Some in USA would like to close the border with Mexico.

But I am sure they are thinking out keeping people out; not stopping people from leaving USA to enter Mexico.
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Offline BillyB

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #547 on: April 09, 2020, 12:27:26 PM »
So China closing border doesn't mean entirely closed either?? So why say it?


Ask the media why they said it. Maybe they're simply repeating what China said leaving out some details?

So in your mind, closed doesn't always mean closed.


In my mind, I know there's more detail to every story than what the media reports. They like to leave a lot of things/truth out of their stories, especially when it comes to Trump.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline BC

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #548 on: April 09, 2020, 12:37:31 PM »
Countries will normally let their own citizens back in if 'closed'.

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Re: 2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)
« Reply #549 on: April 09, 2020, 02:11:54 PM »
Ask the media why they said it. Maybe they're simply repeating what China said leaving out some details?

In my mind, I know there's more detail to every story than what the media reports. They like to leave a lot of things/truth out of their stories, especially when it comes to Trump.

You as bad as the media, trying to sensationalize every minute story that comes out. Don't care about whether there is any truth or not , it's a story!!

So the stories that are not the truth are the ones you don't agree with? You're a talking head!! Many are here!!!
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