What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[jone]

I know for a fact that I’ve never stated I was a physician on this forum or in chat or PM.so that is just silliness and not relevant….my opinions come from being a member here..that is all.

I realize that few people here are buying that this is a win/win long term…that is fine.  Regardless, my opinion is that it will be…in a few years…I think eventually Ukraine will accept (as best they can) what has happened and move on…I realize that some people are going to be damaged by what has happened…the world is a rough place and sometimes these things do happen…all things considered for such a move very little loss of life occurred…

Actually, I think the world IS digesting this Krim situation just fine…I don't see a worldwide outrage about it…channels like CNN are even somewhat perplexed about what to make of what has happened…this was never going to be a large scale invasion…a specific region for a specific reason…made sense to me…and believe it or not I’m pro-American…and I see this as a positive for us as well as Ukraine and Russia.

Fathertime! 

Father Time's Win/Win

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/the-new-cold-war/497466.html

[BillyB]

In December 2013, Ukraine received another politically motivated gas discount, effectively cutting the price to $268 per 1,000 cubic meters of gas. The last discount was made to support Yanukovich in power.

That sounds like a good deal but knowing how smart Putin is, Russia benefits more even at those low prices. If I were the president of Russia and by selling gas at half price, I get use of a naval base and control of a president of say Germany, France, Ukraine, or any other country, I'd do the same thing Putin did. Controlling a president of a nation more than makes up any loss from low price gas sales.


Now that Putin doesn't have control over Ukraine, Russia has the right to raise prices to normal levels. If they use their leverage to maximize their profits, eventually they may lose a customer(Ukraine) when cheaper options become available.

[fathertime]

Father Time's Win/Win

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/opinion/article/the-new-cold-war/497466.html

  It doesn't seem very mature of you to add my username to an article I didn't author, endorse, comment on, or have anything to do with. 

If I were to play this game I would now have to link articles that support the position I’ve taken and write Jone’s hysterics or something like it. 

I’d rather exchange ideas and/or link articles, and leave the immaturity out of it. 

Fathertime! 

[jone]

  It doesn't seem very mature of you to add my username to an article I didn't author, endorse, comment on, or have anything to do with. 

If I were to play this game I would now have to link articles that support the position I’ve taken and write Jone’s hysterics or something like it. 

I’d rather exchange ideas and/or link articles, and leave the immaturity out of it. 

Fathertime! 

What a whiner.

[fathertime]

What a whiner.

You obviously never completed finishing school, or were raised by negligent parents.  I stated that I would prefer to focus on the issue, not your immaturity. That is a reasonable thing to say, and doesn’t constitute ‘whining’.    Meanwhile when presented with a differing opinion, you immediately start trembling, and soiling yourself all over the website. Just because the ‘invasion’ you desperately desired hasn’t materialized you don’t have to get so testy. I’ve been willing to talk about the reasoning that leads me to the conclusions I’ve drawn, instead you would like to flame, probably because you ‘informed’ assessments regarding Ukraine/Russia were SO incorrect. 

Fathertime!       

[Maxx2]

Game Over. You win GQ. I learned a long time ago I can't reason with people who think our government was responsible for 9/11 and the Tsarnaev brothers are being framed by our government for the Boston Bombings.

That was never GQ's positions on those issues... they are mine actually. Too bad the FBI had to shoot the one unarmed associate of the elder brother in the back of the head while undergoing interrogation
.

[jone]

You originally came onto this forum demanding an apology from an FSU Woman?  Do you recall?  You argue every little personal detail.  My god, man.  You act like some women I knew.  And they were not FSU Women.   They were sniveling gals who would cackle like hens. 

You put up a response telling how great your win/win ideas were and that Russia would have everything forgotten by all of the world in a short two years.  So I responded directly to your assertion by an Opinion article that Russia had essentially started a new cold war. 

You whined that I just put up the link.  I really didn't have to say any more.  It effectively refuted you.  So instead of refuting what the article said, you WHINED.  If you had something to contribute to your argument, you should have said it.

If your sensibilities are so offended by what I have to say, wait until the aggressive people start to have you for lunch.

 

[fathertime]

You originally came onto this forum demanding an apology from an FSU Woman?  Do you recall?   

No I do not remember that…WHY because I never did.  It would be very easy for you to prove me wrong though..provide the quote.  Show me where I EVER demanded an apology from a woman on this forum.  It never happened.   You are either mistaken or a liar.  You can choose which.  I gotta chuckle though because I know you are mistaken, like usual.

You put up a response telling how great your win/win ideas were and that Russia would have everything forgotten by all of the world in a short two years.  So I responded directly to your assertion by an Opinion article that Russia had essentially started a new cold war. 

You whined that I just put up the link.  I really didn't have to say any more.  It effectively refuted you.  So instead of refuting what the article said, you WHINED.  If you had something to contribute to your argument, you should have said it.

If your sensibilities are so offended by what I have to say, wait until the aggressive people start to have you for lunch.

Gee I’m really petrified of the ‘aggressive’ people of the forum that might ‘eat me for lunch’. .  I guess I have to educate you further, an ‘article’ doesn’t refute anything as it is also an opinion.  The facts on the ground can refute only and were talking about the future. 

So are you done whining about my ‘whining’? I don’t always have to refute what every article says, I decided to deal with the inflammatory and dishonest way you presented it.     

Fathertime! 

[BC]

Responding to the original question: "What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

Quite likely, exactly like this situation in Crimea..  a battle of wits, smarts, economics and winning over peoples.

If anything (I hope) both sides have learned over the last decades that armed conflict is simply too costly, destructive and only foments discord among those affected, usually prolonging final resolution. - in other words zip.
 

[Belvis]

Responding to the original question: "What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

Quite likely, exactly like this situation in Crimea..  a battle of wits, smarts, economics and winning over peoples.

I'll add my 5 cents:

[Maxx2]

Responding to the original question: "What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

The war has already started. It will be America/EU stationing military and missile bases on Russia's border. It will be   is Vladimir Putin persuading other nations  to dump the dollar as the reserve currency and start direct exchanges using their own currency. Already a deal has been worked out between Iran and Russia as well as with India. Ordinary Americans are going to get hurt real bad when prices rise dramatically on foreign produced goods.

[BillyB]

 It will be   is Vladimir Putin persuading other nations  to dump the dollar as the reserve currency and start direct exchanges using their own currency. Already a deal has been worked out between Iran and Russia as well as with India. Ordinary Americans are going to get hurt real bad when prices rise dramatically on foreign produced goods.

Don't forget the meetings he had with China encouraging them work together to dump the dollar too. Speaking of China, they are currently purging all their "corrupt" officers in the military. Stalin President Xi Jinping is making sure all officers believe in his program and are loyal.


Some people may get their wish someday. Someone else, other than America, will rule the world.

[BillyB]

It's started. Pro Russian protestors breaking into government buildings and causing violence. If there were a viable pro Russian candidate for the presidency, I don't think this would happen. Now violence needs to happen to get things spiraling out of control and a few Russian citizens need to get killed before Putin goes in and rescue them with his army. He will monitor new elections in East Ukraine's desire to join Russia. Putin will again look like a good guy for doing the right thing protecting people and giving them the freedom to exercise their right to vote.


http://news.yahoo.com/pro-russians-storm-ukraine-government-buildings-145538760.html


http://news.yahoo.com/pro-russians-storm-government-building-eastern-ukraine-132011839.html

[jone]

It's started. Pro Russian protestors breaking into government buildings and causing violence. If there were a viable pro Russian candidate for the presidency, I don't think this would happen. Now violence needs to happen to get things spiraling out of control and a few Russian citizens need to get killed before Putin goes in and rescue them with his army. He will monitor new elections in East Ukraine's desire to join Russia. Putin will again look like a good guy for doing the right thing protecting people and giving them the freedom to exercise their right to vote.


http://news.yahoo.com/pro-russians-storm-ukraine-government-buildings-145538760.html


http://news.yahoo.com/pro-russians-storm-government-building-eastern-ukraine-132011839.html

This is a very small number:  Only 200.  But it could very easily change quickly.  I agree that the Russians have already seen that no Pro-Russian candidate will emerge and that this will set Moscow into attack mode.   

[fathertime]

I still don't see a big invasion by Russia in the cards....they took what they really want already...they don't seem to be lacking coal so why would they bother with the hassle and turmoil of these cities?...in addition I don't think they can concoct a story that will wash as well as the Crimea narrative has gone...I think they realize the world probably would react badly to further incursions....


Fathertime!   

[jone]

I still don't see a big invasion by Russia in the cards....they took what they really want already...they don't seem to be lacking coal so why would they bother with the hassle and turmoil of these cities?...in addition I don't think they can concoct a story that will wash as well as the Crimea narrative has gone...I think they realize the world probably would react badly to further incursions....


Fathertime!

I would very much like you to be right and me wrong.

[BillyB]

they don't seem to be lacking coal so why would they bother with the hassle and turmoil of these cities?...

Those cities have people. Without people to sell to, resources aren't worth anything. The more people Russia has in control, the more profits.

.in addition I don't think they can concoct a story that will wash as well as the Crimea narrative has gone...I think they realize the world probably would react badly to further incursions....

Many of the world's citizens believed what Putin said about Crimea. Why wouldn't they believe him again when he says there are Russians in east Ukraine being discriminated against and hold an election that votes to join Russia? The western governments may react harsher this time by doubling the sanctions. If Putin wants more land, this is probably the best opportunity he'll ever get with Russian troops on the border, Ukraine being weak after it's revolution and an American president who hesitates when it comes to using military force to stop him. It's now or never.

[Chelseaboy]

Russian soldier kills an unarmed Ukrainian Naval Officer in Crimea..according to the Ukraine Defence Ministry.

Fathertime...do you think that Ukrainian Naval Officer's wife and children consider it a win/win situation ?

[fathertime]

Russian soldier kills an unarmed Ukrainian Naval Officer in Crimea..according to the Ukraine Defence Ministry.

Fathertime...do you think that Ukrainian Naval Officer's wife and children consider it a win/win situation ?

That is truly a stupid question..it really is. Why would an officer's family think they just 'won' because he was killed? 

People are going to be killed pretty much however this plays out...imo
If loss of life is kept down that is the best one can hope for. Nobody said this was going to be 100% blood-free..not realistic.
Fathertime!

[alex330]

I still don't see a big invasion by Russia in the cards....they took what they really want already...they don't seem to be lacking coal so why would they bother with the hassle and turmoil of these cities?...in addition I don't think they can concoct a story that will wash as well as the Crimea narrative has gone...I think they realize the world probably would react badly to further incursions....

Like Jone, I hope you are correct, but from what I understand it would make strategic and economic sense for him to assimilate the Eastern and Southern cities if he is able to do so quickly without major repercussions. Aren't those cities the areas with greatest amount of wealth and production in Ukraine? Quickly slip in and take all the factories in the Northeast that produce the engines for your military, the shipyards in Niko, the port cities of Odessa and Illichivsk and control the coastline over to  Pridnestrovie.

If I were Putin I would have already made the move while the West twiddles their thumbs. Who is going to challenge him on this?

[Muzh]

If anything (I hope) both sides have learned over the last decades that armed conflict is simply too costly, destructive and only foments discord among those affected, usually prolonging final resolution. - in other words zip.

BC, I hope your hope is correct, but I don't have much hope.
 
My wife didn't sleep last night at all. All she did was sob in bed. This is after she declared that "the war has started." I had to go and look at the news to see what was happening. She is convinced that after the Belgorod residents (some were asking where was city hall after they started protesting in front of a theater) from the eastern cities started the demonstrations that Putler will send in the "friendlies" and the "greens" to protect the Belgorod citizens. There will be a lot of blood, she said.
 
This is a woman that for years would identify herself as Russian because they were one people. Now, it is not pleasant what she says of Russians.
 
Really sad.

[Muzh]

I still don't see a big invasion by Russia in the cards....they took what they really want already...they don't seem to be lacking coal so why would they bother with the hassle and turmoil of these cities?...in addition I don't think they can concoct a story that will wash as well as the Crimea narrative has gone...I think they realize the world probably would react badly to further incursions....


Fathertime!

Either you are blind or have a serious passive-aggressive nature.

[Muzh]

The war has already started. It will be America/EU stationing military and missile bases on Russia's border.

This is WRWD. (What Reagan would do.) However, this is not what Obama is doing.
 
The interesting fact is that the majority of isolationists here in the US hate Obama. Ironic.
 
 

It will be is Vladimir Putin persuading other nations  to dump the dollar as the reserve currency and start direct exchanges using their own currency. Already a deal has been worked out between Iran and Russia as well as with India. Ordinary Americans are going to get hurt real bad when prices rise dramatically on foreign produced goods.

Putler can try as much as he can. He'll never succeed. Wall Street is too damn stong. Read my signature.

[Muzh]

BTW, anyone seen LT lately? Is he a lone wolf after Putler?

[fathertime]

Either you are blind or have a serious passive-aggressive nature.

You seem to think the position I've taken as it pertains to further Russian aggression is 'passive-aggressive'....or maybe I'm blind.... Why do you think this?  I don't see a compelling reason for Russia to move into those Eastern cities...that doesn't mean that they won't...that just means I don't think they will.  The negatives are too great. From what I'm gathering, you must feel the Russians are going to move into the cities...why do you think this?


 I can see how someone would argue that I'm blind, but how  is taking that position 'passive-aggressive'?  If me taking that position is 'passive-aggressive' then isn't the position you are taking also 'passive-aggressive'? 


Thanks,
Fathertime!