What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[Faux Pas]

I’m curious what the end solution is going to be for Ukraine… is the final solution that there is an East Ukraine and a West Ukraine? That would be less of a win for Ukraine for sure, but is that the best way anyway?  It appears a lot of the Eastern Ukrainians truly do feel close to Russia and obviously most of the Western Ukrainians detest Russia’s influence.  Why force these two groups to live together if it is to mean they start killing each other? It appears to be a legitimate issue.  Can/will they get along as a whole, or is a civil/proxy war going to wind up happening?   What reasonable solutions are out there?  I don’t see purging otherwise law-abiding citizens based on ideology as being reasonable at this point.  If the USA is bringing in NGO's in Ukraine they are making the situation worse, imo. 


Fathertime!

Jeez FT, please, give that one up. There is no "win" for Ukraine. It is all "loss" and no, Ukraine is a peaceful country and dividing it East/West isn't a solution that's reasonable to Ukrainians

[fathertime]

Jeez FT, please, give that one up. There is no "win" for Ukraine. It is all "loss" and no, Ukraine is a peaceful country and dividing it East/West isn't a solution that's reasonable to Ukrainians

They were a peaceful country and I hope they stay that way.  Looks like extremists are starting to make their presence felt.







 

[jone]

Father Time,

It is very evident that you have not spent any significant amount of time in Ukraine.  The entire situation that is being advocated by the Russians is artificial.  One of the reasons I originally spent time in Ukraine over Russia is that the Ukrainians, in all parts of the country, were proud to be Ukrainian.  If you look at the ethnic makeup over 60% of the people, even in Donetsk and Lugansk are ethnic Ukrainian.  To assume that they hate the Western Ukrainians or wish to be part of Russia is un-informed. 

To further elaborate my point, do you know that when Putinistas tried to take over the Mayor's office in Kharkiv, they got the wrong building and took over the Opera House?  That should tell you something.  Even I know where the Opera House is in Kharkiv.   Perhaps they thought the Mayor was performing Turnandot by Puccinni?  (If that were the case, I would have gone to the Opera House too.  I love that opera.)  The simple fact is that these were paid operatives, not even from Ukraine.  Can you guess which big neighboring country supplied these men?

In any society, one can find a couple of social misfits and rile them up to come out and protest.  Even here in the US, it can be done.  Especially if someone is paying for them to be there.

Russia is trying to destabilize Ukraine.  By doing so, the Kremlin feels it can carve up the country by Oblast.  Clearly, your uninformed position is one that we have had to listen to repeatedly over the last couple of weeks.  It would be nice if you could finally admit that carving up Ukraine is not in the best interest of the Ukrainians and that this is not a win/win.  It is aggression, plain and simple.

[GQBlues]

I’m curious what the end solution is going to be for Ukraine… is the final solution that there is an East Ukraine and a West Ukraine?...

LOL. Likely a far more believable reality than believing east Ukraine would allow itself to be governed by a ruling party they strongly voted against in 2010, Vis-a-vis for western Ukraine.

Shell Oil have dibs on the exploratory fracking drilling for the eastern half, while Chevron nabbing the western half. All that's left to do right now is wait for a few thousands dead Ukrainian bodies. The sooner this happens, the sooner EU can tap and *buy gas from Ukraine (likely the western region, long with Romania and Poland) and shunning Russia as a lone source altogether.

A well-executed western-style capitalistic pulled planning, I say...

*of course, lest Ukraine forgets, they will owe the EU/USA/IMF billions for years before the country and its peoples *benefit* from any of their resource. If in doubt - see: Africa.

[fathertime]

Father Time,

It is very evident that you have not spent any significant amount of time in Ukraine.  The entire situation that is being advocated by the Russians is artificial.  One of the reasons I originally spent time in Ukraine over Russia is that the Ukrainians, in all parts of the country, were proud to be Ukrainian.  If you look at the ethnic makeup over 60% of the people, even in Donetsk and Lugansk are ethnic Ukrainian. To assume that they hate the Western Ukrainians or wish to be part of Russia is un-informed. 

1.  You have misrepresented the questions I raised.  Where was either of those two bolded ASSumptions made, by the questions I posed?


2.  I think you have lost your objectivity and have an inflated sense of importance on the subject.  You are providing an opinion, one of many. 

3. When people see parliament members fist fight merely because one side is making statements the other doesn't like, you have to wonder just well these two sides are going to come together in the end. It was the Western leaning ones that began throwing punches so you can't make the claim that it was 'Russian interference' that prompted the brawl.   

4.  I think it is obvious that you are trying to downplay the internal divisions between Ukrainians on this issue. 

5. It seems obvious Russia is going to capitalize on these divisions for their own advantage.  If there were no real divisions I'd have serious doubts that Russia would have the ability to do very much. 

6.  I merely posed some questions and made a statement or two about the potential killing that could commence if people with diametrically opposed viewpoints are forced to live together.  It appears the position you hold is that the Ukrainians are not divided.  I don't agree. 

7. In trying to be objective, if the Ukrainian divisions are not THAT deep, the Ukrainians should be able to live with each other and get past this issue and eventually thrive...on the other hand maybe the divisions are deepening by the day.  Clearly the map GQ provided proves that there is something going on when a country is divided by region to such an extreme.

Fathertime! 

[jone]

GQ,

You post a map of election results and, while understandable, does nothing other than to tell that these people voted for one political candidate over another.  That election was a 'pick your poison' election.  Frankly, if I had been voting in that election, I would have selected:  "None of the Above".

Here is the make-up of Ukraine.  Note that the difference between Crimea and Eastern Ukraine is significant.  Ethnic Russians are NOT in the majority in Eastern Ukraine.  Simply more people speak the Russian language there.

[jone]

Father Time,

You continue to embarrass yourself.  I want to hear again about your "Win/Win" situation.  Tell us again!!!

 

Oh, please, tell us again!!

[GQBlues]

Nothing in the map you posted contested or refuted the underlying portrayal of the political leanings of the country, jone. The fact remains, the population in Ukraine consist of peoples easily divided by an east/west region. Whether demographically or politically.

[fathertime]

Father Time,

You continue to embarrass yourself.  I want to hear again about your "Win/Win" situation.  Tell us again!!!

 

Oh, please, tell us again!!

Yes, yes, please tell us all about your 'love' for the Ukrainian/Russian people and all your 'important' business dealings. Sounds like you are continuously trying to bolster your 'street cred'.   


To this point, you have been wrong about what was going to happen...that is the important fact.  Where is YOUR invasion, Mr 'student of history'?


Fathertime!   

[Muzh]

I’m curious what the end solution is going to be for Ukraine… is the final solution that there is an East Ukraine and a West Ukraine?  That would be less of a win for Ukraine for sure, but is that the best way anyway?  It appears a lot of the Eastern Ukrainians truly do feel close to Russia and obviously most of the Western Ukrainians detest Russia’s influence.  Why force these two groups to live together if it is to mean they start killing each other? It appears to be a legitimate issue.  Can/will they get along as a whole, or is a civil/proxy war going to wind up happening?   What reasonable solutions are out there?  I don’t see purging otherwise law-abiding citizens based on ideology as being reasonable at this point.  If the USA is bringing in NGO's in Ukraine they are making the situation worse, imo. 


Fathertime!

So, you'd be very happy with a Confederate States of America and a United States of America, right?
 
Where would you prefer to live? You seem to me like the rebel type.

[LiveFromUkraine]

So, you'd be very happy with a Confederate States of America and a United States of America, right?
 
Where would you prefer to live? You seem to me like the rebel type.

A better question would be would you mind if a country, like Russia, sent money, ammo, and other types of aid to groups intent to over throw our elected government?

[jone]

Nothing in the map you posted contested or refuted the underlying portrayal of the political leanings of the country, jone. The fact remains, the population in Ukraine consist of peoples easily divided by an east/west region. Whether demographically or politically.

Well, we could divide the United States politically and demographically.   We certainly could divide up California!!  It doesn't mean we should.  Ukrainians don't want it.  The entire situation is artificially contrived.  Did you read how the Coal Miner's Union in Donbass Region stated that they had no wish to be part of Russia?  Those are all Russians - and the poorest of the poor.

[GQBlues]

And that is why you have a democratic process to follow. Short of doing that, you merely promoted chaos. Any result thereafter will be dubious at best if not catastrophic.

[Muzh]

A better question would be would you mind if a country, like Russia, sent money, ammo, and other types of aid to groups intent to over throw our elected government?

It seems to me Russia already provided the Belogrod Pro-Russian demonstrators with that so what's your point?
 
Oh wait, you mean the US sent money arms and logistics to the Maidan people? Boy, if that is the case we as a country are in trouble.
 
You see, The Belogrod Pro-Russians had machine guns and grenade launchers. As a matter of fact they have set plastic explosives inside the SBU building in Lughansk. Very expensive equipment.
 
The US could only afford slingshots and a few buck worth of petrol for molotov cocktails. Not to mention all these US-sponsored operatives head gear!!! Pots and bike helmets. Impressive improvisation. Must be an American trait. Very proud of those boys.
 
So, you also seem like the rebel type to me.
 

[LiveFromUkraine]

It seems to me Russia already provided the Belogrod Pro-Russian demonstrators with that so what's your point?
 
Oh wait, you mean the US sent money arms and logistics to the Maidan people? Boy, if that is the case we as a country are in trouble.
 
You see, The Belogrod Pro-Russians had machine guns and grenade launchers. As a matter of fact they have set plastic explosives inside the SBU building in Lughansk. Very expensive equipment.
 
The US could only afford slingshots and a few buck worth of petrol for molotov cocktails. Not to mention all these US-sponsored operatives head gear!!! Pots and bike helmets. Impressive improvisation. Must be an American trait. Very proud of those boys.

The military and police would be better armed, so yes.  I take it you mean the police and military of Ukraine when you yell pro Russians.


You trying to say that the "Maidan" people were only armed with sling shots and molotov coctails?  Or is this another example of your situation blindness.


What does Lughansk have anything to do with the "Maidan" mob?


The problem is you guys don't want to see tha the west screwed up this country just as much as Russia.   Putin called the west out by a show of force.  The west spanked some sanctions and said bad boy.   Putting the blame on Putin and Russia is easy even though the west should get their fair share of the blame for this cluster****.


 

So, you also seem like the rebel type to me.

I don't even know what that means but funny neverless.

[Muzh]

The military and police would be better armed, so yes.  I take it you mean the police and military of Ukraine when you yell pro Russians.


You trying to say that the "Maidan" people were only armed with sling shots and molotov coctails?  Or is this another example of your situation blindness.


What does Lughansk have anything to do with the "Maidan" mob?


The problem is you guys don't want to see tha the west screwed up this country just as much as Russia.   Putin called the west out by a show of force.  The west spanked some sanctions and said bad boy.   Putting the blame on Putin and Russia is easy even though the west should get their fair share of the blame for this cluster****.



I don't even know what that means but funny neverless.

   is the best I can do with this nonsense.

[fathertime]

So, you'd be very happy with a Confederate States of America and a United States of America, right?
 
Where would you prefer to live? You seem to me like the rebel type.

You are stretching and resorting to name-calling again....


I'm happy in the country I live in...my marriage would not be at all acceptable in a Confederate state...as a matter of fact we would probably both be lynched...maybe the kids too.   




 

 


 

I don't even know what that means but funny neverless.

Hey LFU, by calling you a rebel (me too), I take it as he is dismissing the arguments presented and the individual making them...he may even be implying something about racism.  Muzh, would prefer to resort to 'Label Time', when challenged on specifics.  It is an easy out for him. 



Fathertime! 

[LiveFromUkraine]

Hey LFU, by calling you a rebel (me too), I take it as he is dismissing the arguments presented and the individual making them...he may even be implying something about racism.  Muzh, would prefer to resort to 'Label Time', when challenged on specifics.  It is an easy out for him. 



Fathertime!

Yeah, it's easier to blame the evil empire (which one depends on whom is reading).  If you don't agree you're are a rebel I guess.  I prefer being a rebel than sheep blindly following what any country wants you to believe.

[Muzh]

You are stretching and resorting to name-calling again....


I'm happy in the country I live in...my marriage would not be at all acceptable in a Confederate state...as a matter of fact we would probably both be lynched...maybe the kids too.   




 

Hey LFU, by calling you a rebel (me too), I take it as he is dismissing the arguments presented and the individual making them...he may even be implying something about racism.  Muzh, would prefer to resort to 'Label Time', when challenged on specifics.  It is an easy out for him. 



Fathertime!

Oh boy, NOW I get it. Dude, that's one big chip on your shoulder.
 
Understood.

[Muzh]

Yeah, it's easier to blame the evil empire (which one depends on whom is reading).  If you don't agree you're are a rebel I guess.  I prefer being a rebel than sheep blindly following what any country wants you to believe.

You on the other hand, you have no excuse. You're just plain ugly. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

You on the other hand, you have no excuse. You're just plain ugly. 

 

[fathertime]

Oh boy, NOW I get it. Dude, that's one big chip on your shoulder.
 
Understood.

 


Fathertime!

[Muzh]

 

Wait, wait. While you're at it....
 
 

[Muzh]

 


Fathertime!

Is it safe to watch?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Wait, wait. While you're at it....
 
 

Nah man, I don't want anyone to kiss my buttocks.  I just like getting under your skin.  That is thanks in itself.