What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[Muzh]

I’m not going to satisfy your curiosity at this time, because it is unimportant to me.  It would appear you are avoiding discussing the topic of the Russian troops which YOU brought up today.  I’m not important (personally), the viewpoint is what is at issue.  The facts on the ground are not supporting your viewpoint, at this time, imo. [size=78%]   [/size]


Fathertime!

So that's you in the picture; a self-appointed marshall of the truth, eh?
 
How self-important.
 
When you have a dog in the fight, then by all means try to sound intelligent.

[alex330]

2.       The Russian troops massed on the border are not going to attack and were placed there for a different reason.

I would agree if it was only infantry, artillery, or tanks but the satellite images are showing air divisions fully prepared for drop in over the lines. They have an entire airfield of supplies in one training base just over the border from Kharkiv. Whether or not he decides to pull the trigger we have to wait and see, but they are not there for different reasons.

[Muzh]

Hey SX...I don't see it that way...
Fathertime!

Of course you don't se3e it this way. You are in the wrong hemisphere. The people you normally deal with from your wife's side speak Spanish. They also behave differently and look differently. Not to mention they are more submissive.
 
That is until you betray them.
 
Boy, I can tell you one or two things about the people you deal with. But this is a RUSSIAN UKRAINIAN forum.
 
The latino forum is somewhere else.
 
I hope wifey doesn't think you are looking elsewhere. That would break her heart.

[fathertime]

 
 
When you have a dog in the fight, then by all means try to sound intelligent.

Coming from the guy who jumped up and down that Russia wasn’t going to invade Crimea?...the most obvious move. 

I would agree if it was only infantry, artillery, or tanks but the satellite images are showing air divisions fully prepared for drop in over the lines. They have an entire airfield of supplies in one training base just over the border from Kharkiv. Whether or not he decides to pull the trigger we have to wait and see, but they are not there for different reasons.
[/size]

[/size][size=78%] [/size]
Well Alex, I would say that Russia knows they need to have the ability to invade (to the satellites too) so yeah it has to look credible in all respects. …I don’t believe they are jumping the trench to invade.   Of course if something drastic happens, then they do need to have the ability to invade…meanwhile they are a pawn…imo. 


Fathertime!   

[Muzh]

Putin is getting nervous.
 

 Putin warns Europe of gas shortages over Ukraine debts

[Muzh]

if that is the case then the US should not be asking sovereign countrys to give up nuclear weapons for their defence, & signing memorandums to protect them etc etc
shameless moral squirming going on by anyone who trys to pretend what was understood /agreed to when this budapest was signed imho
 

Says a lot about the original poster, no?

ok what reason ??
no one is going to attack russia ?? the EU/US /NATO have stated that emphatically ,
so who would ??ukraine ?? nah , not ever,
so they are not even acting as a deterent as all of the above said they would not use forces

russia put them there, as a clear option for use if the right situation arose to take advantage of having them on standby , plain as day that is putins no 1 option on having them there , his second option is to cause destabilisation /intimidation with them , its working !!  both on ukraine and on the US/EU/NATO 

Many have tried to explain our paladin that strategy does not make any sense. However, he seems to be more knowledgeable than intelligence analysts so what do we know? Right? He must have a direct line to Putin's dacha.

FT how in the name of christ do you see this as a win win ??
  who is wining here ?/

crimea, nah dont think so , give them time and it will become clear they are not , who else
ukraine ??  yep the price hike on gas is awinner for the average person , having protesters on all your citys squares with ethnic tension between citizens who lived together peacefully only a few months ago , thats  a winner ?? 

having your big  brother country help to suffocate you with all his strength , as well as destabilising your country he wishes to use propoganda etc to choke you into fearfull submission, 

where is the WIN ?? only for putin at present

you have lost me in your logic,

can you explain your scenario just a bit more so we can see where your coming from ??

SX

Again, have you ever heard the expression "Getting your goat?" Except that there are a number of people on this RUSSIAN/UKRAINIAN forum that would take it personally. But that would not deter our paladin of the truth to keep rubbing it in for his own amusement.
 
Makes you wonder.
 
Have I mentioned passive-aggressive behavior?

[fathertime]

I've got to chuckle at poor muzh at this point he is even bringing my wife into a political discussion.  To this point his 'wise' predictions have fallen on their face.  So where is the big invasion he promises? If Russia was going to invade it would have already happened.  In a few more weeks it will be interesting to hear muzh excuses on why he was so mistaken. He definitely won't own up to his own arrogance.  Hehe
Fathertime!

[fathertime]

Says a lot about the original poster, no?

 
Many have tried to explain our paladin that strategy does not make any sense. However, he seems to be more knowledgeable than intelligence analysts

You have no access to intelligence analyst's reports. I don't believe we are given the real scoop.  I believe this will be solved without the Russian troops invading. You have already been dreadfully wrong with your earlier 'sage' predictions and I believe you will be dreadfully wrong again. If that happens you will lash out in anger rather than celebration.
Fathertime!

[Muzh]

I've got to chuckle at poor muzh at this point he is even bringing my wife into a political discussion.  To this point his 'wise' predictions have fallen on their face.  So where is the big invasion he promises? If Russia was going to invade it would have already happened.  In a few more weeks it will be interesting to hear muzh excuses on why he was so mistaken. He definitely won't own up to his own arrogance.  Hehe
Fathertime!

LMAO
 
Is that the best you have?
 
I showed my concern about your wifey's general well being. The least you could do is acknowledge my good sentiments towards her.
 
Second, I asked you, repeatedly, what is your REAL purpose on a RUSSIAN/UKRAINIAN women's forum and I'm still waiting for an answer. Not really accusing you of diversion, yet.
 
And no, I have no access to the daily briefing. I just read the SAME (I hope) newspapers that you do. No, no RT, sorry.
 
What I still do not understand is what is your purpose here. Were you hired to deal with "miscreants" like me?
 
Or is it your quest in life to follow forums to exert your branding justice? If that's the case, wow!
 
Do you know if the Latino forums have this same kind of activity with Venezuela? Now, there's a job for Superman.
 
Can I call you Superman, Kal-el or just plain Clark Kent? (You'd need to change your avatar. He had hair, you know.)
 
Just in case you missed it, I really do not take you seriously. So relax, I would never get upset with you.
 
Ooops, sorry. My mistake. Yes, you do irk me quite a bit. 

[jone]

If the Russians don't invade, then I will celebrate.  I will celebrate me being wrong and you being right, FT.  For us that would be a real celebration.

As Muzh is so adroitly pointing out, with you this conversation is simply a means to move your fingers up and down.  These people, while trying to maintain a brave face, are scared out of their minds.  I talked to a friend of mine today in Kharkiv and she was crying, worrying about her son, who is in the reserve and would be immediately called to fight if the Russians come across the border.

Your inferences that my affection for the Russians is either contrived or displayed for personal recognition, on a forum that promotes the friendship between Eastern Europeans and Westerners demonstrates, as Muzh says, that your opinions are contrary to the purpose for this forum.   After all, one can appreciate a people and still disagree with what their government is doing.  I know some pretty nice people in the City of Bell, but certainly would not agree that their government is 'All that'.

While this forum is open to all people, I take issue with people who come here simply to vent their opinions while not having a link to Eastern Europe or intentions of developing same.

[fathertime]

Well muzh, you can choose to be irked. I've stated my opinion on matters and like reading/commenting some of the stories here. It would appear one of your primary purposes here is to attempt to denigrate others as you your posts over several years bear out.

Jone your opinion on who you approve of participating doesn't concern me.

Still waiting for the 'great invasion' you guys were soooo certain of weeks ago. The 'ignorant' opinion I respectfully submitted still stands.

Fathertime!

[Muzh]

Well muzh, you can choose to be irked. I've stated my opinion on matters and like reading/commenting some of the stories here. It would appear one of your primary purposes here is to attempt to denigrate others as you your posts over several years bear out.

Jone your opinion on who you approve of participating doesn't concern me.

Still waiting for the 'great invasion' you guys were soooo certain of weeks ago. The 'ignorant' opinion I respectfully submitted still stands.

Fathertime!

You definitely have reading comprehension.
 
I am not irked by you. It slides by me.
 
And you still have not answered my question.
 
Oops, wait a minute. I guess I should stand in line. There is another person waiting for your reply to another set of questions. 
 
My, what a popular guy!!

[fathertime]

You definitely have reading comprehension.
 
I am not irked by you. It slides by me.
 
And you still have not answered my questions

It appears to me that almost everything you said would happen hasn't. I think you are rankled that some 'greenhorn' like me could get closer to the truth than you. I've given my opinions and stated reasons why I have come to these conclusions.  Your angry personal questions aren't relevant to me and will remain unanswered.Meanwhile you have shown that you aren't able to see things to a logical conclusion. For someone who displays such arrogance and dismissiveness it is entertaining.  Thank you.
Another day is passing and still no russian invasion like you say. The facts on the ground still bear out to the position I've taken. I believe in a few weeks others will realize how incorrect you have been.
fathertime!

[Larry1]

It appears to me that almost everything you said would happen hasn't...
Another day is passing and still no russian invasion like you say. The facts on the ground still bear out to the position I've taken. I believe in a few weeks others will realize how incorrect you have been.

That conclusion is premature.  As Alex mentioned above, it takes more than a little time to put in place everything that is necessary to mount an invasion that will be opposed by more than a token force (not to mention what will be necessary for the subsequent occupation).  Reports are that Russia has been assembling the air and ground forces along with the logistical capabilities to supply those forces.

[Muzh]

It appears to me that almost everything you said would happen hasn't. I think you are rankled that some 'greenhorn' like me could get closer to the truth than you. I've given my opinions and stated reasons why I have come to these conclusions.  Your angry personal questions aren't relevant to me and will remain unanswered.Meanwhile you have shown that you aren't able to see things to a logical conclusion. For someone who displays such arrogance and dismissiveness it is entertaining.  Thank you.
Another day is passing and still no russian invasion like you say. The facts on the ground still bear out to the position I've taken. I believe in a few weeks others will realize how incorrect you have been.
fathertime!

LMAO
 
Bob and weave.
 
How can I be "rankled" with so much amusement from you?
 
I really don't care if you got it right or not. As a matter of fact no matter what we guess really matters. However, and maybe you should ponder on this, you walk into a group of people who share the same interests and instead of listening and observing you start antagonising people that share a common interest.
 
It is like inviting yourself to a private party and then becoming the obnoxious loudmouth that no one invited. Ever been to a party like that?
 
And you keep mentioning a mirror. How ironic.
 
How can I be rankled with stuff like that?
Funny.

[alex330]

That conclusion is premature.  As Alex mentioned above, it takes more than a little time to put in place everything that is necessary to mount an invasion that will be opposed by more than a token force (not to mention what will be necessary for the subsequent occupation).  Reports are that Russia has been assembling the air and ground forces along with the logistical capabilities to supply those forces.

Correct. I shared this link below elsewhere, here it is for those that have not seen it. The situation is escalating, supplies are being brought in for an invasion. At this point the question is not whether the plans are to invade but if they can be stopped by an event or outside pressure.

http://www.janes.com/article/36324/russian-buildup-around-belgorod-continues

Take a look at the airstrip. Notice how it is covered with crates. An entire airstrip covered with supplies in 10 days. Heavy crates they need to keep from sinking in the mud. Like Jone and many others here I hope you are correct FT, but it is not looking good.

EDIT - btw, we staged our invasion of Iraq over a period of 3 months before going in.

[Daveman]

At this point the question is not whether the plans are to invade but if they can be stopped by an event or outside pressure.

Hey, the US put a warship on the Black Sea... that'll put an immediate and decisive end to the Russian invasion plans..

[Belvis]

Hey, the US put a warship on the Black Sea... that'll put an immediate and decisive end to the Russian invasion plans..

Actually it will be explained along this line when no invasion happens.

[fathertime]

LMAO
 
Bob and weave.
 
How can I be "rankled" with so much amusement from you?
 
I really don't care if you got it right or not. As a matter of fact no matter what we guess really matters. However, and maybe you should ponder on this, you walk into a group of people who share the same interests and instead of listening and observing you start antagonising people that share a common interest.
 
It is like inviting yourself to a private party and then becoming the obnoxious loudmouth that no one invited. Ever been to a party like that?
 
And you keep mentioning a mirror. How ironic.
 
How can I be rankled with stuff like that?
Funny.

You are such a crybaby now I love it!  Your anger contradicts your words though and that is also nice to see.   Why?  Because I refuse to permit you to 'shout down' the opinion I'm giving.  I chuckle at your arrogance and how incorrect you have been...now you are trying to even hedge on your earlier comments. You have misread the situation from the start.  You have 'graced' this forum for years with your intolerance and ignorance.  You were given opportunities to engage in a discussion, but you have failed.


Fathertime!   

[jone]

I read today that Russia is now advising its citizens not to travel to any Western friendly country in the world.  They base this recommendation on the reaction to Crimea, but, in reality, they are warning their citizenry of what lies ahead.

Attached is the article:

http://www.utro.ru/peredovica/

[fathertime]

That conclusion is premature.  As Alex mentioned above, it takes more than a little time to put in place everything that is necessary to mount an invasion that will be opposed by more than a token force (not to mention what will be necessary for the subsequent occupation).  Reports are that Russia has been assembling the air and ground forces along with the logistical capabilities to supply those forces.

Correct. I shared this link below elsewhere, here it is for those that have not seen it. The situation is escalating, supplies are being brought in for an invasion. At this point the question is not whether the plans are to invade but if they can be stopped by an event or outside pressure.

http://www.janes.com/article/36324/russian-buildup-around-belgorod-continues

Take a look at the airstrip. Notice how it is covered with crates. An entire airstrip covered with supplies in 10 days. Heavy crates they need to keep from sinking in the mud. Like Jone and many others here I hope you are correct FT, but it is not looking good.

EDIT - btw, we staged our invasion of Iraq over a period of 3 months before going in.

Hey guys, of course I hear your point about the time it takes to stage an invasion...except that is not what I think they are doing.  I believe Russia had plenty of time to prepare and get their materials in gear IF they really were going to invade.  I realize that the force has the capability to invade, but to then occupy a large (mostly) hostile region does not seem at all realistic to me.  I don't see Russia attempting to pull this off at this time. The credible threat to invade is paying dividends for them, and I believe it will pay off when the sides sit at the negotiating table.  My feeling remains that while the force has the capability to invade, it will not...a deal will be worked out...and at least part of the reason for that is the credible threat of invasion. 
Bottom line, I don't see Russia occupying Ukraine and that is what it would take...so I think they will use other means to gain what they want to gain...


 Of course MCCain wants to arm Ukraine...which I think would be a disaster. 


http://freebeacon.com/national-security/mccain-send-arms-to-ukraine/










Fathertime! 

[GQBlues]

... Of course MCCain wants to arm Ukraine...which I think would be a disaster....

Pay no mind to that idiot. He wants to arm everybody including Al Qaeda. Someone in DC ought to retire that mofo and soon.

He ought to retire in Canada and kill baby seals instead. Hell...then again, he'll probably want to arm them, too..

[CanadaMan]

He ought to retire in Canada and kill baby seals instead. Hell...then again, he'll probably want to arm them, too..

Leave our baby seals alone please!
He ought to retire in the U.S. and kill baby seals Navy SEALS instead.

[fathertime]

Pay no mind to that idiot. He wants to arm everybody including Al Qaeda. Someone in DC ought to retire that mofo and soon.

He ought to retire in Canada and kill baby seals instead. Hell...then again, he'll probably want to arm them, too..

Leave our baby seals alone please!
He ought to retire in the U.S. and kill baby seals Navy SEALS instead.

Thank goodness this deranged war-monger didn't stumble his way into the white house.


Here is a wonderful quote from the article:
McCain acknowledged the arms would not likely enable Ukraine to defeat the Russians in open war, but emphasized it could improve the Ukrainian military’s morale and ensure that the Russians would have “a real fight on their hands” if they invaded further.

-Yeah, arm those worthless people so more of THEM can get killed, that will do wonders for morale....The McCain technique is to turn a brush fire into an inferno whenever possible....not to mention this isn't a battle we should be chest-deep into anyway. 


Fathertime! 
 

[Dewed]

The McCain technique is to turn a brush fire into an inferno whenever possible..

Then it seems several members here are actually McCAIN  ! ! ! !