What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[lordtiberius]

Faces of pro-Russian militia in Donetsk and Lugansk regions

Russian Scum

Are you trying to say that Reshat Ametov was not tortured or that he is still alive? Or perhaps that Stanislav Karachevsky was not killed? Or maybe you are trying to say that no one was torturing Sergey Hayduk, Alexey Gritsenko, Yuri Shevchenko, Sergey Suprun, Davydenko, Mikhail, Maxim Tryvydenko, Andrew Shchekun, Yaroslav Pilunsky and Yuri Gruzinova? No one during tortures was shooting through legs and hands of Andrew Shchekun and Yuri Shevchenko from traumatic weapons? No one during tortures cut piece of ear from Yuri Shevchenko? Or perhaps you are trying to say that right now those hostages that still holding glorious russian soldiers in Crimea  are not being tortured?

They don't want to see the truth about Saint Putin:

Bodies of Yuriy Popravko & Vladimir Rybak
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fc7_1398651073#kGszFMmFjI1uX43c.99




I wish some of these libertarian cheerleaders for Putin would drink drano.

[Belvis]

Are you trying to say that Reshat Ametov was not tortured or that he is still alive? Or perhaps that Stanislav Karachevsky was not killed? Or maybe you are trying to say that no one was torturing Sergey Hayduk, Alexey Gritsenko, Yuri Shevchenko, Sergey Suprun, Davydenko, Mikhail, Maxim Tryvydenko, Andrew Shchekun, Yaroslav Pilunsky and Yuri Gruzinova? No one during tortures was shooting through legs and hands of Andrew Shchekun and Yuri Shevchenko from traumatic weapons? No one during tortures cut piece of ear from Yuri Shevchenko? Or perhaps you are trying to say that right now those hostages that still holding glorious russian soldiers in Crimea  are not being tortured?

You're talking about things that happened routinely at Maidan in Kiev. Sure it happened in Crimea too though at much smaller scale, as well as in Donetsk region also. Face the consequences of civil unrests, if you stand up for revolution you have to accept what revolution brings.
When situation in Crimea was taken over under full control of little green men all incidents had stopped. But you're selective and prefer to close eyes on killings which took  place  over Ukraine in the same time.

[lordtiberius]

I never thought I would ever say this, but reading some of this Putinist drivel, "I actually wish there were some Muslims right now" - CHECHENS!

[Anotherkiwi]

However where our president took approapriate actions, in Crimea, there were no tortured  people, no deaths.

...Sure it happened in Crimea too though at much smaller scale...

I have always respected your viewpoint in the past, Belvis, because you have contributed a lot of interesting stuff, but this is nonsense - first you say nobody was tortured or killed in Crimea, then you agree with MissAmeno that they were.  If you can't get your own story straight on something so basic, why should we believe anything else you write about the current situation in Ukraine?
 

I respect the right and wish of 0.1% of population to protest against Putin    I don't like he is still single but consider it's not a good reason to take part in a rally against him.

Huh?  What on earth has being single go to do with the planned demonstations?  And why shouldn't he stay single?  It's not compulsory to get married (or re-married), even in Russia.
 

[Hammer2722]

Are Russians at all bothered that their president supports terrorists?
How they feel about innocent people being beaten up, tortured and even killed due to actions of their president?
How they feel about loosing freedom of speech and right to protest?
What do they think about proposed closed internal internet for Russia?
What people think about planned on 18th of May rallies against Putin across Russia? (will you be taking part in them?)

Perhaps the word sheep comes to mind?

[Belvis]

  I have always respected your viewpoint in the past, Belvis, because you have contributed a lot of interesting stuff, but this is nonsense - first you say nobody was tortured or killed in Crimea, then you agree with MissAmeno that they were.  If you can't get your own story straight on something so basic, why should we believe anything else you write about the current situation in Ukraine?

You have to weight the scale before making conclusions about events. We're not in a court where one should think about each word and its meaning. Are you a lawer, btw?
Just think about almost 3 million region on the edge of civil war, with 22,000 ukrainian army group, with revolted  russian population, with large chunk of muslim minority, and compare with only 4 dead in the course of so called forcible annexation.   One woman was crushed in a protest crowd in first days, two were shot by a provocator sniper (an ukrainian soldier and a russian activist), and one Tatar was killed after torture. Nobody has evidence if the last death was connected with political conflict and not criminal one.
  You can make up the story as a violent event but I will strongly disagree with you And I repeat once again, the Russian factor saved a lot of human lives in Crimea preventing a civil war, the annexation was very peaceful.

 
 And why shouldn't he stay single?  It's not compulsory to get married (or re-married), even in Russia.

I consider your statement as meddling in Russian internal affairs. I insist the president should be married. 

[lordtiberius]

You know what other annexatiion that was relatively peaceful . . .

[missAmeno]

Belvis, have to go to work and no time to answer gibberish you wrote. First there is evidence. second more people still held as hostages in Crimea, third most of those people were tortured already when Russians 'took control'.

Do bother to look up names, photos, etc before writing BS.

[steveboy]

The US are war mongers



http://www.turnerradionetwork.com/news/357-confidential

[steveboy]

[Gator]

One or two posters have talked about a win-win solution in Ukraine. 

Mohamed El-Erian is a highly respected economist.  In this video he talks about a lose-lose-lose-lose outcome if all players do not deescalate. 

http://money.cnn.com/video/investing/2014/04/25/investing-russia-ukraine-economic-sanctions-global-markets-recession-risk.cnnmoney/

It will be a game of stare down between Europe and Putin.  I bet Europe blinks first.  I bet the farm. 

[GQBlues]

Well, nothing here that hasn't already been presented, discussed and debated in this thread Stefan. The US and the EU had always been known to be behind the unrest, ousting of the president, and the appointment of the illegitimate government of Ukraine. Like I said before, the price will be paid for by the general population of Ukraine. That's the worst part of this whole mess.

The regime change in Ukraine is so vital to the economy of Europe. Just as the one in Libya.

[fathertime]

One or two posters have talked about a win-win solution in Ukraine. 

Mohamed El-Erian is a highly respected economist.  In this video he talks about a lose-lose-lose-lose outcome if all players do not deescalate. 

http://money.cnn.com/video/investing/2014/04/25/investing-russia-ukraine-economic-sanctions-global-markets-recession-risk.cnnmoney/

It will be a game of stare down between Europe and Putin.  I bet Europe blinks first.  I bet the farm.

I think I’m the only one talking about the possibility of win-win….but I do agree with the man in the link…IF we (the USA) continue to escalate then I can definitely see how it becomes lose-lose-lose….   I feel that is one reason why we should not get involved any further.


Fathertime!   

[Maxx2]

Well, nothing here that hasn't already been presented, discussed and debated in this thread Stefan. The US and the EU had always been known to be behind the unrest, ousting of the president, and the appointment of the illegitimate government of Ukraine. Like I said before, the price will be paid for by the general population of Ukraine. That's the worst part of this whole mess.

The regime change in Ukraine is so vital to the economy of Europe. Just as the one in Libya.

Yes but it is the best presentation I've seen yet on who the real man is behind the curtain. Too bad those on the other side of this issue will not take the time to watch this.

[GQBlues]

Yes but it is the best presentation I've seen yet on who the real man is behind the curtain. Too bad those on the other side of this issue will not take the time to watch this.

Yeah, well, about a month ago I ridiculed that silly 'I am Ukrainian' video, LOL. It just screamed like a well financed/produced video to me. Then to get the tip from watching Stefan's video on who actually made the video is just freaking hilarious!

http://awhispertoaroar.com/about-the-film/behind-the-scenes/

[LiveFromUkraine]

An interesting article talking about how the US has been working towards keeping Russia in check.  You can see the similarities with what Carter did in Afghanistan to what has happened many times in many countries. Typical US M.O. that tends to bite us in the ass later on.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-paul/forget-the-spin-putin-is_b_5183691.html

[Maxx2]

Yeah, well, about a month ago I ridiculed that silly 'I am Ukrainian' video, LOL. It just screamed like a well financed/produced video to me. Then to get the tip from watching Stefan's video on who actually made the video is just freaking hilarious!

http://awhispertoaroar.com/about-the-film/behind-the-scenes/

Isn't amazing how they don't even try to disguise who they really are? They must being counting on most people not even checking.

[fathertime]

Isn't amazing how they don't even try to disguise who they really are? They must being counting on most people not even checking.

..and they are correct, there are a lot of sheep that believe just about anything our govt sponsors...hopefully we (the people) can stop them from going too far and continuing the escalation. 


Fathertime!   

[Maxx2]

..and they are correct, there are a lot of sheep that believe just about anything our govt sponsors...hopefully we (the people) can stop them from going too far and continuing the escalation. 


Fathertime!

I'm seeing a sea change on this subject. Even my dear 85 year old mother is telling her friends the score.

[fathertime]

I'm seeing a sea change on this subject. Even my dear 85 year old mother is telling her friends the score.

Well I often bring up the subject of Ukraine to people without giving my sentiments...I try to do it in a way that gives the person a chance to express their feelings without me interjecting or knowing how I feel about it....I have yet to have spoken with a person that supports us doing anything in Ukraine....but that still may not stop our 'representatives' from escalating, without the support of the American populace...i'm convinced that would be a bad mistake that would impact us in a bad way. 


Fathertime!   

[GQBlues]

An interesting article talking about how the US has been working towards keeping Russia in check.  You can see the similarities with what Carter did in Afghanistan to what has happened many times in many countries. Typical US M.O. that tends to bite us in the ass later on.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-paul/forget-the-spin-putin-is_b_5183691.html

Well now. Isn't this really interesting? I never knew about the Carter CIA plan...

The last 3 4 Democratic Presidents: LBJ in Vietnam, Carter in Afghanistan, Clinton in the Balkans, and now Obama in Libya/Syria/Ukraine. So much for Republicans starting wars and Democrats ending them, eh?

[BillyB]

Mohamed El-Erian is a highly respected economist.  In this video he talks about a lose-lose-lose-lose outcome if all players do not deescalate. 

In terms of money, yes, everybody loses but some people don't mind rich people losing money anyway. When rich people lose money, the little people will eventually feel it when their nations economy is hurting. As far as de-escalating goes, every side has a different definition of what de-escalating is.


The little sanctions that Obama think are the right recipe for getting Russia to back off aren't working. Russia survived many years without doing business with the West so if it happens again, no big deal. Putin will always be rich and as a bonus he weakens NATO nations in the process. The only thing that scares Putin is the thought of America's military getting involved. After Crimea, Putin learned Obama won't use the military so he moved on to east Ukraine New Russia. Same sh!t, different day. I don't see an end to this. If America backs off, Ukraine will continue to fall into Russia's hands. If Obama applies sanctions in baby steps, it certainly hasn't produced results so why would it in the future? Sometimes the only way to stop a playground bully is to bloody his nose. First start with a warning and de-escalation may begin.

[The Natural]

Anybody watch the Oliver Stone TV series? It's on re-run here now and very interesting. Now, here's an American I Call a real American (to paraphrase Hulk Hogan). To love America and Americans and the ideal of Americanism by criticizing bad policies of the past by People who Call themselves Americans but were not, that's what real patriotism is all about in my opinion. . The interventionists. The world improvers. The world police People. The supporters of the empire.

It makes me Wonder how Oliver Stone see the current situation in Ukraine. I'm pretty sure it's not With the current administrations glasses, nor the media, nor the rest of the western world's. Yes, here too, in Norway, we get the "consensus" oppinion of what's going on. Russia is supposedly all war mongering and propaganda and Washington is the shining light of truth and Liberty and the rest of the west just seem to follow orders. I can hear and read about it in the media every day, but also get the other side via my wife as she and her mother watch Russian TV here. Many times she tell me something that's happened and a day or two later I hear it on the News here. It's all very one-sided and it's laughable how the media is still in the 80's. It's like the truth movement in the west vs. the evil empire in the east.

I say give the Nobel Peace price to Vladimir Putin! Imagine if someone else were at the helm in Moscow. A Russian Hawk. Someone like Shirinovsky for example. We'd been in a world war a long time ago. Putin is very patient With the idiots in the western Powers, but even for the best politician of today, a limit must exist somewhere.

[GQBlues]

2014 Barrack Hussein Obama to Ukraine / Ukrainians:

"If you like your President, You can keep your President! Period!"

[Maxx2]

Nice to see you posting Natural. I agree with your observations.