What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[Maxx2]

Maxx, you can say seriously with a straight face that you don't attribute any of the events in Ukraine to Putin?

Sure Putin's hand is in some of the tensions in Ukraine but not in the overthrow of the Ukrainian government. He wanted Yankovich in power just as we would have wanted Batista instead of Castro. What we are seeing is another play of the Cuban missile crisis only with us in the part of the Russians back then. The Russians like us want to protect their national interests and do not want a hostile government on their border. Beating and killing people needs to stop on both sides.

[Belvis]

You asked for it, now you've got it

Double standards at full play. Who counts these pro-Russian Ukrainians, right?
I'm glad Russia has evacuated Crimea from the mad house. I hope more people will think in tune with me now.

[Faux Pas]

Sure Putin's hand is in some of the tensions in Ukraine but not in the overthrow of the Ukrainian government. He wanted Yankovich in power just as we would have wanted Batista instead of Castro. What we are seeing is another play of the Cuban missile crisis only with us in the part of the Russians back then. The Russians like us want to protect their national interests and do not want a hostile government on their border. Beating and killing people needs to stop on both sides.

Agreed. Yet that will not happen as long as Russia foments civil unrest and threatens to invade. Your analogy of 50 years ago does not apply. It's a different world Maxx, do try to keep up.

Double standards at full play. Who counts these pro-Russian Ukrainians, right?
I'm glad Russia has evacuated Crimea from the mad house. I hope more people will think in tune with me now.

Double standard, really? Those two helicopters certainly counted those pro-Russian Ukrainians, didn't they? Do you suppose they just had those granade launchers handy in their pocket. How much did/do you expect the Ukrainian government to stand-by and watch as the *cough* "pro-Russian Ukrainians" continue to bully and push for civil war?

[Chelseaboy]

Belvis,

       There wouldn't be a madhouse in Ukraine,if your country hadn't of instigated it by inflaming the situation by taking Crimea,and encouraging pro-Russian seperatists to cause problems in eastern Ukraine.

Even your government is now admitting they were behind the escalating  tensions in Ukraine,by  saying they have now lost control of the pro-Russian seperatists ...after previously denying they had been involved at all..so they now admit they were lying..nothing new for Russians though is it ?

Your country is more to blame for the deaths now occurring in Ukraine than anyone.

[threeships]

Young Ukrainian nazi...in an hour they will burn alive 43 people...


jm100 why are Ukrainian nationalist nazis ??  wasn't this a march for a unified Ukraine , then pro Russian people had to get in their faces...bam!! its time Ukrainians, not fascist show some resistance...this has got to end.

[Belvis]

Double standard, really? Those two helicopters certainly counted those pro-Russian Ukrainians, didn't they? Do you suppose they just had those granade launchers handy in their pocket. How much did/do you expect the Ukrainian government to stand-by and watch as the *cough* "pro-Russian Ukrainians" continue to bully and push for civil war?

I understand your point crystal clear. Burn alive these  "pro-Russian Ukrainians" to stop civil war. No sense to talk with you.

[Belvis]

Your country is more to blame for the deaths now occurring in Ukraine than anyone.

My country is in rage after Odessa massacre. Would you so kind to shut up for now.

[BillyB]

I can't sleep for the second day and no medicine helps me to fall asleep.I started smoking. I can't stop crying.

Don't take pills and start smoking. This is destructive behavior. It won't help you and it won't help save lives in Ukraine.


You live in Crimea and were lucky. The things happening in east Ukraine are what I thought would happen first in Crimea but the Ukrainian government was weak at the time and the military didn't have orders to do anything. Anytime there are foreign troops in a nation, that nation would vigorously pursue them. Just as Russian troop were in Crimea, they are in east Ukraine and they've blended themselves in with the civilians. This is irresponsible for any military to do that since they are using civilians as human shields.


Russia is smuggling arms into Ukraine, they don't intend to stop and if the Ukrainian government doesn't do anything, they would eventually have nothing. The Ukrainian military following orders of the current Ukrainian government tells me they respect the current government over their previous president Yanukovych when they refused his orders.  Almost half the soldiers in the Ukrainian military are east Ukrainian. Being a former soldier, I suspect most Ukrainian soldiers feel they are flushing the Russians out of their country more than wanting to kill their countrymen.


Earlier I mentioned I wished Obama sent troops into Ukraine the first time Russia complained Russian citizens were being discriminated against not to make Putin angry but to help him as a friend since prior to Ukraine, we acted as friends. My feelings are that American troops will keep the peace and lives were going to be saved because no country would challenge them. China cause Philippines problems and America opened a base in the Philippines. China backs off. North Korea caused problems and America sent warships over there to make sure North Korea doesn't move further. By doing little to nothing in Ukraine has only escalated the situation. There are interests that want to have a say in Ukraine's future.


I understand you're upset with Obama but Russia is escalating this too and shares in the blame for every death and future deaths. It's best America and Russia promote a fair and violent free election on May 25. Both countries can supply monitors and let the Ukrainian people decide their future.


I wish Putin allowed the West to pump billions of dollars into Ukraine and let Ukraine fail so they'd come running back to Russia. Nobody would have to die and Russia would get Ukraine back in it's sphere of influence. Problem is Putin knows former Soviet satellite nations never comes back after they adopt a Western style economy. Like Poland and the Baltics, Ukrainians could make more income than Russians in time. A poor economy is the source of frustration among all Ukrainians regardless of political affiliation.


Some people find joy when pro Ukrainians get killed. Some people find joy when pro Russians get killed. Angry mothers, wives and girlfriends will encourage their men to kill the enemy so that they may experience joy once again. As more people get angry over the deaths, pursuit of revenge goes up.  I see things escalating and many more people will have to die before this ends so don't cry endlessly, or rely on medicine and smoking to ease your pain. If I remember correctly, you have a daughter, and it's best you stay strong and help her grow.

[Larry1]

My country is in rage after Odessa massacre. Would you so kind to shut up for now.

Shut up, he explained.

[fathertime]

Really?This was started by this ugly black monkey that is called your president. This damned creature made all this as well as he did it in previous countries. I wish damnation to him and all his children, let them all die long and painfully as all these people whom he killed.

Hey Justme,  Obama is partially black, but that is not the reason he has been doing what he is doing...we should leave his race out of the discussion.

Sure Putin's hand is in some of the tensions in Ukraine but not in the overthrow of the Ukrainian government. He wanted Yankovich in power just as we would have wanted Batista instead of Castro. What we are seeing is another play of the Cuban missile crisis only with us in the part of the Russians back then. The Russians like us want to protect their national interests and do not want a hostile government on their border. Beating and killing people needs to stop on both sides.

I have to agree that the USA has helped to create this mess a great deal...those nuland tapes and the monies shouldn't be downplayed....it appears there is quite a bit of support against the current 'leadership' in Kiev...  I believe that Russia probably does have people helping with the demonstrations, but there appears to be quite a bit of support from Ukrainians...I would hope this would not turn into a long standing civil war.  From my perspective this appears to be instigated by the west (US) and we shouldn't be meddling...I think Russia will be willing to go much deeper into this than us, as this is their backyard. Hopefully the elections produce a new leader that can represent Ukraine in a bipartisan way and bring the two groups together somehow..but that is probably too hopeful. 




Fathertime!   

[Maxx2]

Agreed. Yet that will not happen as long as Russia foments civil unrest and threatens to invade. Your analogy of 50 years ago does not apply. It's a different world Maxx, do try to keep up.

I don't agree. 50 years or 500 years the parallel is the same. The words of historian Patrick J Buchanan for events even further back illustrate:

[/color]And how would we have reacted if a Soviet Union, victorious in the Cold War, effected the expulsion of all U.S. troops and bases from Europe and brought Cuba, Venezuela and Nicaragua into the Warsaw Pact?
[/color]State’s Victoria Nuland says we invested $5 billion in re-orienting Ukraine away from Russia. How would we respond if we awoke — as Putin did in February — to learn a pro-American government in Mexico City had been overthrown by street mobs financed by Beijing, a pro-China regime installed, and this unelected Mexican regime wanted out of NAFTA in favor of joining an economic union and military alliance with China?
[/color]A U.S. president who landed Marines in Veracruz, as Wilson did in 1914, and sent a 21st-century General “Black Jack” Pershing with an army across the border, would be over 70 percent in the polls, as Putin is today.
[/color]And if he seized Baja, as Putin seized Crimea, it would be a cakewalk to a second term.
[/color]

[/color]Here's a link to those who want to read his article.
[/color]http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/03/patrick-j-buchanan/behind-the-russian-rage/

[Chelseaboy]

Belvis,

        I'll shut up telling it how it is when you stop spouting your Russian propaganda on here.

[GQBlues]

I have the fullest info possible.I watched online stream  for 5 hours made by one of the busters.

Hold your conviction justme. You are far more on the money than your detractors  this is a US regime change action. The deaths and violence happening now is the next stage forward by the US to escalate and provoke Putin to cross the border. Just as the war in the former Yugoslavia . Theres is that undeniable similarity in this current crisis as that one. Google Bosnians crimes against Serbs and you'll understand now how these things work.

Don't Ming my fellow Americans. They're products of our silly media.

Always remember that Ukrainians are just as much victims here as ethnics Russians in Ukraine

[lordtiberius]

Justme, I love this video you posted:



You call them Nazis.  I call them patriots.

You reap what you have sown.  You wanted war and you are getting war.  War is ugly.  War always hurts the innocents.  War always leaves a scar that no passage of time heals.  That is why we must avoid it.  But viragos like you wanted it.  Now you will get it.

For you dirty old men out there, let take a lusty ogle at these Odessa girls:





It does surprise me that pro-Putin war mongers like Fathertime would blame this on America and use the flimsiest excuses like the Nuland tapes.  Fact is that 'Benghazi' Nuland and our Ambassador Geoff Pyatt have been impotent and incompetent at handling this crisis.

So tell me with a straight face these idiots are these great demigods of violence?



I think we will send troops to Ukraine, BillyB but I don't think it will do any good.  Unfortunately the window where sending of troops would have deterred the least liked man in Russia has passed.  The probability of miscalculation is so high you could jump out an airplane from it and safely land.  And those miscalculations could include thermonuclear war as these Kremlin economic geniuses will cut off everyone else's noses to save their faces.

My advice is vigorous proxy war, economic isolation (which will push us into globo-recession), and asymmetric escalation - challenging Russia in different more vulnerable fronts (China, the Artic, the Baltics, the Caucuses and inside Russia.)   The alternative is miscalculation or follow Fathertime's war mongering and let Russia rape Ukraine.

Again JustMe, you reap what you so.  Repent.  The day of judgment is coming - faster for you I am afraid.

[lordtiberius]

Hold your conviction justme. You are far more on the money than your detractors  this is a US regime change action. The deaths and violence happening now is the next stage forward by the US to escalate and provoke Putin to cross the border. Just as the war in the former Yugoslavia . Theres is that undeniable similarity in this current crisis as that one. Google Bosnians crimes against Serbs and you'll understand now how these things work.

Don't Ming my fellow Americans. They're products of our silly media.

Yeah cause Putin is so awesome at war . . . especially guerilla war . . . Humility or wisdom is not your strong suit

[alex330]

I have the fullest info possible.I watched online stream  for 5 hours made by one of the busters.

Then you should know that the building was accidentally set fire by the pro Russians on the fourth floor and nobody locked them inside. You will also have seen these were the same people firing live rounds down into an angry mob and the same group that ambushed and fired shots into the demonstration.

Everyone was from Odessa? You sure about that? No Russians, or hired football hooligans from Kharkiv, or possibly any people from Transnistria at the events?

Nazi's in Odessa? How about this instead -

This is what happens when you walk about in another country,waving your Russian flags,beating-up people that don't share your Seperatism views with baseball bats,arming yourselves, shooting live rounds into crowds, and inviting Russia to invade.

[fathertime]

Justme, I love this video you posted:



You call them Nazis.  I call them patriots.

You reap what you have sown.  You wanted war and you are getting war.  War is ugly.  War always hurts the innocents.  War always leaves a scar that no passage of time heals.  That is why we must avoid it.  But viragos like you wanted it.  Now you will get it.

For you dirty old men out there, let take a lusty ogle at these Odessa girls:


It does surprise me that pro-Putin war mongers like Fathertime would blame this on America and use the flimsiest excuses like the Nuland tapes.  Fact is that 'Benghazi' Nuland and our Ambassador Geoff Pyatt have been impotent and incompetent at handling this crisis.

So tell me with a straight face these idiots are these great demigods of violence?



My advice is vigorous proxy war, economic isolation (which will push us into globo-recession), and asymmetric escalation - challenging Russia in different more vulnerable fronts (China, the Artic, the Baltics, the Caucuses and inside Russia.)   The alternative is miscalculation or follow Fathertime's war mongering and let Russia rape Ukraine.

Two mentions, I’m delighted that I’m STILL in your head! lmao   As I’ve said earlier, thankfully your aggressive ignorance and opinions have very little traction with US policy.  Although we have stoked the beginning of what could turn into another bloody revolution, we won’t be putting our men in the midst of it, hopefully no advanced weaponry either, the overwhelming opinion here in the states is for us to stay out. 
 
Weren't you the one demanding that people who disagree with your proclamations ‘drink drano’?   Judging from the manner of your posts and 'reasoning', It appears you have already drank some!


Fathertime!   

[Maxx2]

Then you should know that the building was accidentally set fire by the pro Russians on the fourth floor and nobody locked them inside.

It's interesting the photo justme and LT later posted were of women making Molotov cocktails. I seen the video of Molotov cocktails being thrown against the building and causing fires.

[alex330]

It's interesting the photo justme and LT later posted were of women making Molotov cocktails. I seen the video of Molotov cocktails being thrown against the building and causing fires.

Both sides had molotov cocktails. The pro Russians ambushed the demonstrators with bats and guns at the rally, shooting into the crowd and killing several men. My wife knew several people in the crowd. There are numerous videos online showing the timeline of events.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9AMjLBIliw&feature=youtu.be

At the 1 1/2 minute mark you see the crowd disperse from gunshots. Before that time no cocktails are thrown into the building. At the 2 minute mark you can see a fire start from inside the building on the fourth floor.

[lordtiberius]

FatherTime, of things I did say you haven't bothered to refute that you are pro-Putin shill and that Pyatt-Nuland are rubes.

I am sure everything is our fault: AIDS, tornadoes, and flat tires despite the evidence.

[CanadaMan]

This is what happens when you walk about in another country,waving your Russian flags,beating-up people that don't share your Seperatism views with baseball bats,arming yourselves,and inviting Russia to invade.

Really?This was started by this ugly black monkey that is called your president. This damned creature made all this as well as he did it in previous countries. I wish damnation to him and all his children, let them all die long and painfully as all these people whom he killed.

The West started it when it instigated the overthrow of the elected government of Ukraine as clearing shown on the Victoria Nuland tape. But nothing justifies beating people and burning them alive done by either side.

Double standards at full play. Who counts these pro-Russian Ukrainians, right?
I'm glad Russia has evacuated Crimea from the mad house. I hope more people will think in tune with me now.

Belvis,

       There wouldn't be a madhouse in Ukraine,if your country hadn't of instigated it by inflaming the situation by taking Crimea,and encouraging pro-Russian seperatists to cause problems in eastern Ukraine.

I understand your point crystal clear. Burn alive these  "pro-Russian Ukrainians" to stop civil war. No sense to talk with you.

I think it's bad enough that we have fighting going on in Ukraine right now. The last thing we need is more fighting in this forum.

Gentlemen have you forgotten that the reason you came here in the first place was to find love with a FSU woman?

Make love, not war.

[Maxx2]

FatherTime, of things I did say you haven't bothered to refute that you are pro-Putin shill and that Pyatt-Nuland are rubes.

I am sure everything is our fault: AIDS, tornadoes, and flat tires despite the evidence.

You know when you study propaganda technique you see throughout the arguments being made here.   


PROPAGANDA TECHNIQUES:

• Tell The Truth
• Lie
• Lie By Omission and Half-Truths
• Hide the Truth
• Lie With Qualifiers
• Lie With Statistics
• Scream Accusations of Lies and Lying
• Observational Selection
• The Statistics of Small Numbers
• Bury The Lead
• The Big Lie
• Reversal Of Reality, and Counter-attack by Reversal of Reality
• Projection
• Make a Virtue out of a Fault
• Unsupported Claims
• Imaginary Evidence
• Use Association
• The Glittering Generality
• Exaggerate
• Confusion of Correlation and Causation
• The Fallacy of a Single Cause
• Reverse a Cause-and-Effect Relationship
• Straw Man
• Hypnotic Bait and Switch
• The Either/Or Technique — Bifurcation — the Excluded Middle
• False Dichotomy
• The Enemy Of My Enemy Is My Friend
• "Hobson's Choice"
• Alternative Advance
• "Somebody's got it worse"
• Faulty Syllogism
• Non Sequitur
• Post Hoc, Ergo Propter Hoc — "It happened after 'X', so it was caused by 'X'"
• The Norm of Reciprocity
• Guilt Induction
• Play On Emotions, Appeal To Emotions
• Are You Afraid?
• Induce and Exploit Apophenia
• Ad Hominem, Launch Personal Attacks On Opponents
• Engage in Name Calling
• Delegitimize One's Opponent
• Deflect Criticism and Blame By Delegitimizing It
• Delegitimize Criticism and Rebuttal in Advance
• Spurious Delegitimization of Evidence or Criticism
• Spurious Rejection of a Question
• Demonize the Enemy
• Apply Labels
• Stroking Ploys
• Offloading Blame
• Blame A Scapegoat
• Blame The Victim
• Blame Somebody Else (Anybody Else)
• Blame A Non-Factor
• Claim That There Is A Panacea
• Claim That There Is A Panmalefic
• Flattery
• Proof by Anecdote
• Double-Talk
• Unprovable Statements
• Undisprovable Statements
• The Language Trap
• Vague, Undefined, Grandiose Language
• Loaded Language, Euphemisms, and Redefined Words
• Deception by Renaming
• Fluffy Phrases
• It's Free!
• Use Self-Referential Definitions — Define Something In Terms Of Itself
• Pigeon-holing and Labeling
• Deception Via Mislabeling or Misnaming Things
• Misuse Words
• Moving The Goalposts
• Set Low Expections
• The Perfect Solution Fallacy, also known as The Nirvana Fallacy
• Sliding Adjectives
• Vague Adjectives
• Undefined Terms
• Pseudo-intellectual Bull
• Slogans: Simplistic Slogans and Though-Stopping Slogans
• Oversimplify
• Wrap Yourself In A Higher Power
• Repeat Old Memes
• Everybody's Doing It, Everybody Knows, and Everybody Says, and The Bandwagon
• Pomp, Ceremony, and Ritual
• Humor and Ridicule
• Assume The Major Premise
• Assume Facts Not In Evidence (Petitio Principii)
• Hidden Assumptions
• Assume Futures or Future Results
• Fallacy of Presupposition
• Affirmation of the Consequent
• Irrelevant Conclusion (Ignoratio Elenchi)
• Confusion of Beliefs with Facts
• Substitute Feelings For Facts
• Confusion of Abstractions with Reality
• Circular Reasoning (Circulus in Demonstrando)
• Appeal to Evil
• Appeal to Higher Principles
• Appeal to Authorities (Argumentum ad Verecundiam)
• Cite Credentials
• Use Fake Credentials
• Appeal to Force (Argumentum ad Baculum)
• Appeal to Popularity — Appeal to the People (Argumentum ad Populum)
• Appeal to Numbers (Argumentum ad Numerum)
• Dismiss by Numbers
• Appeal to Averages
• Appeal to Fame
• Dismiss by Lack of Fame
• Appeal to Antiquity (Argumentum ad Antiquitatem)
• Dismiss by Antiquity
• Appeal to Novelty — Newness (Argumentum ad Novitatem)
• Dismiss by Novelty
• Appeal to the Exotic
• Appeal to Tradition
• Appeal to Normality
• Appeal to Poverty (Argumentum ad Lazarum)
• Appeal to Wealth (Argumentum ad Crumenam)
• Appeal to Common Folk
• Appeal To Stupidity
• Antirationalism
• Fake Philosophy: "It's all just an illusion."
• Appeal to Desperation and Argument from Impotence
• Appeal to Pity Ad Misericordiam
• Exploit Wishful Thinking, and Tell Them What They Want To Hear
• It Ought To Be True, So It Is.
• It's Too Terrible To Tell
• Argue from Adverse Consequences
• Argue from Beneficial Consequences
• Apply Time Pressure
• Argue For Delay
• Stall
• The Real Scotsman Fallacy
• Inverse Real Scotsman Fallacy
• Inconsistency
• Compare Apples To Oranges
• Special Pleading
• Self-Sell
• Repetition for Emphasis (Argumentum ad Nauseam)
• Antimetabole
• Reification
• Take Undeserved Credit
• Create A Granfalloon
• Spin Doctoring
• The Semi-Attached Figure
• Use Exact Numbers
• Avoid Specific Numbers
• Hide Behind Others
• The Preacher's We
• Put Words Into Other People's Mouths
• Tokenism
• Testimonials and Stories
• The Fallacy of One Similarity
• The Fallacy of One Dissimilarity
• If It Looks Like X, Then It Is X.
• A Distinction Without A Difference.
• Sly Suggestions
• Misleading Inference
• Unsubstantiated Inference and Groundless Claims
• Introduce Irrelevant Information as Supporting Evidence
• False Analogy
• Conflation, False Equality
• Double Bind
• Project Future From Past
• False Analysis Of History
• It's Never Happened Before
• I Didn't See It Happen, So It Never Happened
• Argue Inevitability
• Pollyanna's Ploy — Unbridled Optimism
• Chicken Little's Pessimism
• Generalize, and the Sweeping Generality
• Take Quotes Out Of Context
• Claim That Quotes Are Taken Out Of Context
• Argue from Ignorance (Argumentum ad Ignorantiam)
• Begging The Question
• Meaningless Question
• Play the Victim, and Self-Victimization
• Claim to Have Special or Secret Knowledge
• Bad Math
• The Gambler's Fallacy
• Mistaken Assumption of Randomness
• Use the Passive Voice
• Use Slanted Language
• Use Inflamatory Language
• DEBATING TECHNIQUES:
• Refute By Example
• Refute By Exposing Contradiction
• Minimization and Denial
• Instant Denial
• Understatement
• Not As Bad As
• Admit a Small Fault to Cover a Big Denial
• False Comparison
• Give a Non-reason Reason
• Divert Attention — Change the Subject
• "Well, all I know is..."
• The Positive Accomplishments Sidestep
• Declare Victory
• The Story Sourcing Distraction
• The Drama Queen, the Prima Donna Ploy
• "I'm so offended."
• Claim that "It's unfair."
• Red Herring
• The Personal Loyalty Red Herring
• Answer A Question That Was Not Asked (To Avoid Answering One That Was Asked)
• Answer a Question With A Question
• Surfeit of Questions (Plurium Interrogationum)
• Monopolizing the Question (Hypophora)
• Obfuscate
• Obfuscate With Bureaucritese
• Confuse With Technicalese
• Attack Without Appearing To Attack By Using Paralipsis or Apophasis)
• Passive-Aggressive Attack
• Sarcasm, Condescension, and Patronizing Attitudes
• Adopt an air of superiority
• Damn with Faint Praise
• Reductio Ad Absurdum
• Rationalize
• Exchange A Term
• Frame The Argument
• Argue with Unrealistic Hypothetical Situations
• Misrepresent Your Opponent's Position, or Mischaracterize Your Opponent, or Mischaracterize His Statements or Questions
• Nit-Pick and Split Hairs
• Quibble
• Hit And Run
• Hifalutin' Denunciations
• Make Unreasonable Demands
• Make False Demands
• Shift the Burden of Proof Onto Your Opponent
• Double Standards
• Demand an Uneven Burden of Proof
• Demand Uneven Standards of Acceptance
• Specious Argument
• Spurious Agreement
• Escape via Ignorance
• Escape to the Future
• Escape via Relativism
• Escape via Irrationality
• Pack the House
• Embarrass Your Opponent
• Obtuseness — Refuse to See the Point
• Laugh It Off
• Dominate the Conversation, Talk Non-Stop, and Interrupt Constantly
• Escape via Bullying and Intimidation
• Shut Down the Debate
• 
  

[Belvis]

Then you should know that the building was accidentally set fire by the pro Russians on the fourth floor and nobody locked them inside.

hired football hooligans from Kharkiv

[BillyB]

we won’t be putting our men in the midst of it,

If force was in place in the beginning, lives would be saved, I don't think problems would've started. Obama will get our military involved after millions of Ukrainians die. Russia continues to send weapons to Ukraine for one purpose. We had delayed military action in the former Yugoslavia so I don't see why we wouldn't do the same here. Most Americans are against military action but as always, their hearts will soften after millions die.

State’s Victoria Nuland says we invested $5 billion in re-orienting Ukraine away from Russia

Some people see Putin is reacting to American foreign policy but I see America reacting to Russia's foreign policy. Call it regime change but I see America simply undoing what the USSR did after WWII. It's been slow process but almost complete. Other major nations practice regime changes today and in history. Has little to do with good or evil, just human nature. In every country there are political differences. Smart countries know if they don't help their friends, they will have an enemy. Too many enemies and they cease to exist. The wonderful thing about America is we aren't trying to eliminate Russia from the map. We prefer them to be a friend and stay out of other people's business. It's no surprise every Soviet satellite nation that remained under Russia's influence have horrible economies and a low standard of living for the citizens. Americans have a good life but we'd riot and eject a duly elected president lawfully or unlawfully if our standard of living approaches the same as Ukrainians.


At this time it really doesn't matter who started the fire in Odessa. People have died and was beaten before that. The fire is just one step in this escalating crisis.


Putin sent troops into Crimea for lessor problems. Although he says he all for protecting ethnic Russians, he won't move so fast in east Ukraine as long as the crises escalates the way he wants. Putin prefers a civil war. He prefers east and west Ukrainians dying rather than Russians. Putin will send troops in if the east Ukrainians aren't motivated for a civil war. His excuse for doing that will be that he cares for people.

[lordtiberius]

Belvis,

You like pictures huh?  Here some for you.

Bodies of Yuriy Popravko & Vladimir Rybak
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fc7_1398651073#4zg2bVKQzb2ZDs2e.99


Ah the contortions you have to do to love Putin



Putin is a saint!