What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[Maxx2]

Hey GQ, take me off your blocked list and I'll send you a PM on BillyB and LadyT or I might have to start a thread entitled "PM to GQ."    

[lonedrake]

[...has been authenticated based on accounts by AP journalists at the site and was consistent with AP's own (OWN) reporting on what happened...."/quote]

All that was authenticated was that the video(one showing man approaching and continuing to approach armed men, getting shot)

It is only about the events on the video clip. Who is who and from where have nothing to do with the authenticity of the video clip.

IE.......The video clip is not a fake.

[sleepycat]

Obviously you missed my wonderful description of an MOBer...

Sorry mate, I don't really have the time to dig through the 5000+ classy posts of yours to look for that description that you are referring to.
Maybe you can repost that and also share with the forum members here your personal journey in looking for a FSUW to show how the MOBer tag doesn't apply to you?

[BillyB]

Hey GQ, take me off your blocked list and I'll send you a PM on BillyB and LadyT or I might have to start a thread entitled "PM to GQ."   

Hey Maxx, I'm thrilled to be on your mind but don't be shy on what you have to say. Gossip away.


Are you still on GQ's blocked list? I quoted you so he can now read your message. You can thank me later. After all the fighting and name calling you two did in the past, I'm glad you both found something to agree on and get back on speaking terms.

[fathertime]

I was reading today that ironically the threat of sanctions has contributed to the rise of certain commodities that Russia exports.  For example Palladium, has skyrocketed  in price to some of the near the highest since 2001 which was an all time high.  So in that respect, Russia has benefited from the higher price to this point.
They sit on 40% of the world's Palladium. 
Fathertime!

[southernX]

change of thought on the putin chess game
he may decide he does not need to invade , highly possible given the results of his tactics so far
below
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/05/us-ukraine-crisis-nato-idUSBREA440TI20140505

SX

[fathertime]

change of thought on the putin chess game
he may decide he does not need to invade , highly possible given the results of his tactics so far
below
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/05/05/us-ukraine-crisis-nato-idUSBREA440TI20140505

SX

it looks like the General is coming around to the viewpoint that I've been strongly holding regarding those Russian troops...I never thought they were a serious invasion force as I did not feel that option was EVER what the Russian's intentions were.  At this point in history they will only be occupiers as a last resort. 


I continue to hold that there won't be any invasion as the sides will hammer out a solution....BUT if Ukraine permits western interference to the point where a solution can not be reached then I believe Russia will act with all it's might in Ukraine....although I don't see that happening because reasonable heads will prevail....it certainly is in Ukraine's best interests to avoid war on their turf and that alone should be enough...In addition, Obama has no mandate from America to overstep on this issue, so he won't meddle much more either...imo 




Fathertime! 

[Maxx2]

Hey Maxx, I'm thrilled to be on your mind but don't be shy on what you have to say. Gossip away.


Are you still on GQ's blocked list? I quoted you so he can now read your message. You can thank me later. After all the fighting and name calling you two did in the past, I'm glad you both found something to agree on and get back on speaking terms.

BillyB, EVERYONE is on GQs blocked list. Just try and send him a PM, anyone?


I was going send him some PMs on the meaning of "bruddahood" and being nice to you. That though you and LordT are wrong he should avoid riling you guys up too much. Someday you guys might become to him how Matteo is to me, a little brother……… Nah!     LOL  Seriously he's a good guy.

[BillyB]

I was reading today that ironically the threat of sanctions has contributed to the rise of certain commodities that Russia exports.

Imports aren't doing too bad either. France just sold Russia a few warships.


http://news.yahoo.com/france-wont-cancel-warship-deal-russia-sources-091756532--finance.html

change of thought on the putin chess game

Word from Kremlin is they do not intend to annex. They just want dialogue with Ukraine.


http://news.yahoo.com/kremlin-hopes-dialogue-ukraine-vote-082255849.html;_ylt=AwrSbmrXkHFT2goAD6FXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTB0OWFlYm5tBHNlYwNzYwRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDQxOV8x


For anybody coming in late, here's a description of the referendum vote in the article below. There are some videos on the internet showing some people submitting multiple ballots, there were lots of photocopied ballots, and very few voting stations. Only 4 in the city of Mariupol that has a population of half a million. How does 4 voting stations in a city can handle a few hundred thousand voters in less than a day is anybody's guess?


http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ukraine-crisis/ukraine-moves-closer-civil-war-after-flawed-referendum-n103036

BillyB, EVERYONE is on GQs blocked list. Just try and send him a PM, anyone?

We're all on his sh!t list? That's not very nice. Hopefully one day he'll deem one of us MOB'rs worthy enough to upgrade to the not so sh!tty list.

[Gator]

Shooting in Krasnoarmeisk by Ukrainian "National Guard"

The AP is a credible news agency.  The AP report including one photo:


http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_UKRAINE_SHOOTING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

I viewed a few Youtube videos.  The first shot appears to be fired in the air, then at least 20-30 shots were fired.

The videos show at least two different people in civilian clothing on the ground with severe wounds.  One is bleeding from the leg and the other is motionless and apparently dead.  The motionless man has blood on his upper back as if he were shot in the back.  It is the same person as in the AP photo.

The footage of "National Guard" individuals is brief.  It appears they are members of the neo-Nazi group and not official Ukrainian military.  America's National Guard is composed of reserve US military  forces.  So the term "national ghuardsmen" is misleading. 

I do not believe this is anything equivalent to America's tragic Kent State shooting. 

[lordtiberius]

People should read that article SX posted. The superpowers have agrees to a proxy war.

On the forum side, FT IMHO remains the most articulate of the Putinistas.  Though this is not to excuses his numerous faults.  He is the least loathsome but most dangerous.  Though most of us see him for what he is, a jaundiced America hater and Putin cheerleaders apologist.  His distorted perspective and his pride poison his analysis and contribute to his overall obtuseness. 

 The indigenous Putinistas are pardonable because they are in or were influenced by life in an unfree community. The Western Putin lovers are unpardonable for the opposing reason.

[BillyB]

Shooting in Krasnoarmeisk by Ukrainian "National Guard"

You're coming in late on this story. GQ first brought it up as an act of terrorism by America and EU on page 59 Post #1453. I blew a hole in his theory. Here's a site asking for help on finding out who the shooters were.


http://inforesist.org/battalion-dnepr-was-not-in-krasnoarmeisk-help-to-identify-the-shooters/?lang=en

[fathertime]

Imports aren't doing too bad either. France just sold Russia a few warships.


http://news.yahoo.com/france-wont-cancel-warship-deal-russia-sources-091756532--finance.html

Hey Billy,


I read this too, it just goes to show what a 'panic' most of Europe is over the situation in Ukraine.

Imports aren't doing too bad either. France just sold Russia a few warships.


http://news.yahoo.com/france-wont-cancel-warship-deal-russia-sources-091756532--finance.html




Word from Kremlin is they do not intend to annex. They just want dialogue with Ukraine.

 

[/size][size=78%][/size]

[/size][size=78%] [/size]
[/size]Yup, and I think undoubtedly when/if the discussion occurs, it will be what the terms will be for the newly semi-autonomous regions within Ukraine.[size=78%][/size] [size=78%]

People should read that article SX posted. The superpowers have agrees to a proxy war.

On the forum side, FT IMHO remains the most articulate of the Putinistas.  Though this is not to excuses his numerous faults.  He is the least loathsome but most dangerous.  Though most of us see him for what he is, a jaundiced America hater and Putin cheerleaders apologist.  His distorted perspective and his pride poison his analysis and contribute to his overall obtuseness. 

 The indigenous Putinistas are pardonable because they are in or were influenced by life in an unfree community. The Western Putin lovers are unpardonable for the opposing reason.

In addition to trying a little too hard  to prove your 'intelligence', you are incorrect as usual, as much as you would enjoy it, the superpowers have NOT agreed to a proxy war at this time. 




It has been interesting to watch hysterics from LadyT...numerous times he has been ready to panic and get a lot of other people’s children killed.  Thankfully his unsteady hand and viewpoints were never under any consideration, and he has been marginalized and dishonored by all sides….as it should be… 


[/size]Fathertime! [size=78%][/size] [size=78%]

[lonedrake]

On the forum side, FT IMHO remains the most articulate of the Putinistas.  Though this is not to excuses his numerous faults.  He is the least loathsome but most dangerous.  Though most of us see him for what he is, a jaundiced America hater and Putin cheerleaders apologist.  His distorted perspective and his pride poison his analysis and contribute to his overall obtuseness. 

 I know he has upset many on here and I didn't like his win-win slogan. However he does bring to the table what I consider the average American viewpoint. I don't see his as dangerous....I just see him expressing his opinion. He also usually does it without to many personal attacks.

Besides he is needed for opposing discussion. What if we all agreed? A lot less info would be brought to the table. Many of it is just to prove him wrong......but I like to read and watch most of it.

 

[BC]

People should read that article SX posted. The superpowers have agrees to a proxy war.

On the forum side, FT IMHO remains the most articulate of the Putinistas.  Though this is not to excuses his numerous faults.  He is the least loathsome but most dangerous.  Though most of us see him for what he is, a jaundiced America hater and Putin cheerleaders apologist.  His distorted perspective and his pride poison his analysis and contribute to his overall obtuseness. 

 The indigenous Putinistas are pardonable because they are in or were influenced by life in an unfree community. The Western Putin lovers are unpardonable for the opposing reason.

My goodness.. you are starting to sound like a Salem preacher on a witch hunt.

[JayH]

I know he has upset many on here and I didn't like his win-win slogan. However he does bring to the table what I consider the average American viewpoint. I don't see his as dangerous....I just see him expressing his opinion. He also usually does it without to many personal attacks.

Besides he is needed for opposing discussion. What if we all agreed? A lot less info would be brought to the table. Many of it is just to prove him wrong......but I like to read and watch most of it.

LD-- my intent is to be high on supported information and not inane conclusions based on opinion  from the fringe of reality. I realised long ago it was a total waste of time attempting to tell some people anything about anything-=- so far off the planet  are some  it is a waste of energy.
On the positive side--I am well aware that many do follow links to read-- and any sane person would reach a reasonable conclusion-- and not of the 1% kind!!
Here are some more interesting links
"Kings of the East" willing to lose millions for the destabilization of the situation in the east, not to lose even more.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/groshi/ahmetov-stvoryuye-armiyu-separatistiv-iz-robitnikiv-a-firtash-zamorozhuye-virobnictvo-zaradi-agresiyi-349254.html
The oligarchs in eastern Ukraine are pushing workers to their factories separatism.

 Akhmetov forcibly writes the ranks of separatists workers their plants The most influential oligarchs eastern region of Ukraine one jump ahead of the one to win the favor of the President of Russia. Yesterday the leader of the separatists in Donetsk Paul Gybarev openly voiced what everyone guessed long ago. "It turned out that two-thirds of the activists are dependent oligarch Rinat Akhmetov. A very small group of people loyal to the idea, but it still took the money. Took all money", - said Gybarev.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/groshi/ahmetov-stvoryuye-armiyu-separatistiv-iz-robitnikiv-a-firtash-zamorozhuye-virobnictvo-zaradi-agresiyi-349254.html

[ghost of moon goddess]

Imports aren't doing too bad either. France just sold Russia a few warships.

''With adequate profit, capital is very bold... 100 percent will make it ready to trample on all human laws; 300 percent, and there is not a crime at which it will scruple, nor a risk it will not run, even to the chance of its owner being hanged''
Thomas Joseph Dunning, ''Trades' unions and strikes: their philosophy and intention'', 1860

[Gator]

You're coming in late on this story.

No.  I simply did not quote either you or GQ as I did not want to be party to bickering. 

I was intrigued by the term National Guardsmen, thinking it was another Kent State, a pivotal tragedy in my youth. The AP reference gives credence. 

So I researched it.  I believe the AP did an incomplete job of reporting this event.  Hopefully the responsible AP bureau will report more.

[fathertime]

LD-- my intent is to be high on supported information and not inane conclusions based on opinion  from the fringe of reality. I realised long ago it was a total waste of time attempting to tell some people anything about anything-=- so far off the planet  are some  it is a waste of energy.
On the positive side--I am well aware that many do follow links to read-- and any sane person would reach a reasonable conclusion-- and not of the 1% kind!!
 

 I believe you have failed miserably in your intent then….most of what you post is blatantly biased articles of which many of the conclusions posted have been entirely incorrect.  Your inability to recognize that there is two sides to the story has tainted nearly all of which you have said and discredited your intolerant opinion.. What has happened in Ukraine will likely end up settled in a way that you will be dissatisfied with, but thankfully the ideas you support have little traction.

I know he has upset many on here and I didn't like his win-win slogan. However he does bring to the table what I consider the average American viewpoint. I don't see his as dangerous....I just see him expressing his opinion. He also usually does it without to many personal attacks.

Besides he is needed for opposing discussion. What if we all agreed? A lot less info would be brought to the table. Many of it is just to prove him wrong......but I like to read and watch most of it.

 

Hey Lonedrake,  I think the average American doesn’t care very much at all about what is happening in Ukraine.  When I bring the subject up to somebody that does care, the conclusion is almost always, for us to mind our own business. 


I'm ok with 'upsetting' the guys that want to see intense US involvement.  Some that purport to support democracy/freedom would just LOVE to silence a sensible opposing viewpoint...that isn't going to happen.


Fathertime!   

[BillyB]

''With adequate profit, capital is very bold... 100 percent will make it ready to trample on all human laws; 300 percent, and there is not a crime at which it will scruple, nor a risk it will not run, even to the chance of its owner being hanged''
Thomas Joseph Dunning, ''Trades' unions and strikes: their philosophy and intention'', 1860

Profit and keeping economies healthy are things that prevent the West from using any harsh sanctions against Russia and may in the end let Russia have half or all of Ukraine. America put sanctions on Iran in the 90's only to watch Europe increase business with them. Same can happen with Russia so if Obama learned a lesson, don't try to place anymore sanctions on a country than what their allies are willing to do. That approach has serious flaws when trying to get a nation and/or it's leader to alter its/his behavior.


Russia can fight back sanctions. The more mayhem they create in the world, the price of resources go up, especially oil, which in turn delivers them profit. They can encourage Iran and N Korea to cause mayhem to help out.


Here's a good article that just came out describing why sanctions never work.


http://news.yahoo.com/why-aren-t-sanctions-stopping-putin-094500386--politics.html

Hopefully the responsible AP bureau will report more.

I hope so too. Guys like the ones in Krasnoarmeisk running around loose and shooting civilians will help speed Ukraine towards civil war. I like to know which side they're on.


Here's another shooting of a civilian today near Krasnoarmeisk by armed men.


http://inforesist.org/in-krasnoarmeisk-unidentified-persons-fired-at-a-bus-with-miners/?lang=en

[GQBlues]

You're coming in late on this story. GQ first brought it up as an act of terrorism by America and EU on page 59 Post #1453. I blew a hole in his theory....

LOL. *Blew a hole in it?* I made you look like an idiot for asking why journalist didn't carry cameras..LOL! Your display for having difficulties understanding what you're reading is very telling. 'Journalist, non-binding, dissenting opinions, the list goes on...

They make you look like an idiot at RUA, and I'm making you look like an idiot here.

You think Associated Press is part of Putin's propaganda, then dig yourself that silly hole even more.

It wasn't a *theory*, again look for proper definition of words before commenting on it.

For starters, look up the word 'clod'...

[GQBlues]

...I was intrigued by the term National Guardsmen...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_of_Ukraine

Національна гвардія України, "Natsionalna gvardiya Ukrayini" (NGU)

Reformation

...In 2014 the reformed force was to be created partially on the basis of the Internal Troops of Ukraine, with plans for militias & armed wings from certain of Ukraine's political parties and organisations, including the Euromaidan movement, to be also incorporated into it. However those plans have run into resistance from at least some of the latter, who do not wish to give up their weapons or otherwise subordinate themselves to government control. Direct recruitment from military academies is also intended. On March 16, the Yatsenyuk government announced plans for the recruitment of 10,000 people within the next 15 days for the National Guard. Individual volunteers are also being accepted....

Sounds a lot like an army-for-hire to me.

[GQBlues]

Hey GQ, take me off your blocked list and I'll send you a PM on BillyB and LadyT or I might have to start a thread entitled "PM to GQ."    

Sorry maxx...I have my reasons so don't take it personally. 

[GQBlues]

Sorry mate, I don't really have the time to dig through the 5000+ classy posts of yours to look for that description that you are referring to.
Maybe you can repost that and also share with the forum members here your personal journey in looking for a FSUW to show how the MOBer tag doesn't apply to you?

LOL. I wonder why the heck will *I* even waste my time telling my story to any man whose experience with women included getting ignored, ditched, hid from, ran away from, etc...and instead of coming to his senses and accepting reality, he instead offer them gifts and money like  stooge for such experiences.

Loser is as loser does.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I hope so too. Guys like the ones in Krasnoarmeisk running around loose and shooting civilians will help speed Ukraine towards civil war.

Sure looks like civil war has already begun.