What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[LiveFromUkraine]

LFU,

    A paper trail of cash ?

Is this another one of your unsubstantiated conspiracy theories again ?..yawn :rolleyes

Show the proof ,or are you just full of hot air ?

The stuff has already been posted on here.  Simpletons like you can't seem to grasp facts in front of them.

And your feeble attempt at deflection doesn't work..so once again i'll ask you which other country did the Kiev protestors invade and steal land from ?

You mean how you are attempting to deflect what protestors did in Kiev and start talking about Crimea.  Yeah, it doesn't work.

And while you're at it,show us where the Kiev protestors were chanting USA,USA or even Engerland,Engerland ,waving those countries flags,and asking those countries to invade.

Wow, chanting is your evidence that US/EU had nothing to do with it?  Hilariously simple minded.

Rather a large difference there,even in your world where everything is in grey and full of conspiracies

You got me.  There was chanting and that is a world of difference.

Your comments about Putin sound a bit gay by the way ..shows how your mind works..that sure isn't a grey area 

You're the one bringing up Putin.  I was talking bout what happened in Kiev.  Either embrace your obsession or get some help with it man.  One or the other.

[Chelseaboy]

I'm not the one needing help LFU..that dubious honour falls to you : )))

You're the one who brought up   fantasies about shirtless Putin..like I said shows how your mind works  LOL

Still avoiding the question of which country the Kiev protestors invaded and stole land from I see.

And no proof provided of the paper cash trail...just you referring to previous conspiracy theory gibberish posted.

So,just another internet warrior full of anti-west BS,as I suspected.

You're probably one of those trolls that's been infesting the comments sections of the western media..spouting off their anti-west propaganda...but still living there of course.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I'm not the one needing help LFU..that dubious honour falls to you : )))

Still avoiding the question of which country the Kiev protestors invaded and stole land from I see.

I take you it you are in favor of taking over government buildings, defacing public property, throwing molotov cocktails and shooting at police?  You seem to be avoiding those acts as if they never happened.  I must admit, you and others here seemed to relish in that type of violence yet would not want to live in that type of environment.

And no proof provided of the paper cash trail...just you referring to previous conspiracy theory gibberish posted.

Yeah, nothing like real theories like no chanting of the US so there can't be any involvement by the US.  You must be in some high level think tank to come up with that type of stuff.

I always loved this video.

So,just another internet warrior full of anti-west BS,as I suspected.

Ha!  I found a video of you contemplating the events as they unfold in Ukraine.

[lordtiberius]

LFU, provide proof of cash trail or STFU.  Its just that simple.

[stilllooking]

Man, we got some BillyB logic going on in here.

Ah, the people pissed off are only small groups of people causing chaos.  Next you will be telling me Kiev protesters were revolutionaries  that represented most of Ukraine.  Don't be so daft. 


Only an idiot would think only those that benefited directly from corruption would be pissed off.  All the politicians are corrupt in Ukraine.  Don't think for a second most Ukrainians don't know this.


Next you will be telling me that Nuland opened up a fortune cookie and now knows who will be the next President.

I am fully aware most Ukrainians know their politicians are corrupt, it's the peaceful protests against the corruption that started it all, and those did not only take place in Kiev.

Saw an interesting quote about what going on in the east somewhere, 5% of the people are against the new regime in Kiev, 5% are for and 90% don't care. Suspect there is a lot of truth in that statement, yet those 5% against seem to think they are acting on behalf of everyone. Same article mentioned supporters of a United Ukraine being threatened by the separatists... And here Putin has us belief it is the Russians in Ukraine that are being threatened.

As for the people in Kiev, they did not speak for  everyone  but they spoke for a lot more people than those groups in the east (and by group in Kiev I mean the vast majority who we're protesting peacefully before the anti protest laws were passed and still protested peacefully after that law was passed)

[fathertime]

Or maybe the person Nuland mentioned would actually be the best option as President of Ukraine for the people of Ukraine.

There's a novel thought for the usual  pro Putin/anti west posters on here.

Very few of whom actually seem to be living in Russia under the wonderful rule of Putler..I wonder why ?

Hypocricy is the word that springs to mind.

I'm i'm not seeing where hypocrisy fits in with this particular point.  You seem to be saying that if somebody isn't living under Putin they are unable to comment if their opinion takes into account what appears to be the Russian perspective.  I don't see how that is hypocrisy.

You're probably one of those trolls that's been infesting the comments sections of the western media..spouting off their anti-west propaganda...but still living there of course.

I doubt LFU is posting anti-western propaganda on message boards all over town... For me, I believe we (US citizens) should continue to speak our piece about our foreign policy.  When residents of outside countries make demands about what our country should be doing, I don't think it should matter very much in terms of what we wind up doing.  I happen to really like life here in the US of A...and have concerns it is going to get all screwed up by getting too involved abroad.  We don't NEED to be in Ukraine, we don't need to be attempting to sway elections, we don't need to be facilitating the assassination of foreign leaders which is what I believe we have done/been doing.




Fathertime! 

[LiveFromUkraine]

I am fully aware most Ukrainians know their politicians are corrupt, it's the peaceful protests against the corruption that started it all, and those did not only take place in Kiev.

Saw an interesting quote about what going on in the east somewhere, 5% of the people are against the new regime in Kiev, 5% are for and 90% don't care. Suspect there is a lot of truth in that statement, yet those 5% against seem to think they are acting on behalf of everyone. Same article mentioned supporters of a United Ukraine being threatened by the separatists... And here Putin has us belief it is the Russians in Ukraine that are being threatened.

As for the people in Kiev, they did not speak for  everyone  but they spoke for a lot more people than those groups in the east (and by group in Kiev I mean the vast majority who we're protesting peacefully before the anti protest laws were passed and still protested peacefully after that law was passed)

I like to think the violent people are in the minority.


That doesn't mean there aren't a good deal of people who didn't like what happened in Kiev.  You seem to be thinking people will want to protest when people have been getting beaten, shot and burned alive. 

[lordtiberius]

Where's the money train LFU?  FT, if those little green men wasn't a Russian invasion for e what are they?

[GQBlues]

From USA,  From EU. There are also video bits previously provided upthread stated both by Ukraine's representative and US & EU's. Despite the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961's by-laws, we are financially supporting an illegitimate government as a result of a coup.

[fathertime]

   FT, if those little green men wasn't a Russian invasion for e what are they?

You have intentionally failed to accurately state the position I hold, which has been repeated numerous times. Your lack of honor always shines through.


Fathertime! 

[lordtiberius]

You have intentionally failed to accurately state the position I hold, which has been repeated numerous times. Your lack of honor always shines through.


Fathertime!

Simple questions and no name calling FT . . . own it!

[fathertime]

Simple questions and no name calling FT . . . own it!

You haven’t seen me try to weasel out of the position I’ve taken so I’ve owned it… I’ll let you start in with the names as you always do…as to your disingenuous question, it has been answered numerous times by me, and my mind hasn't changed about what occurred in Crimea.  It is odd how much you care to read my position over and over and over, instead of making your own case.   


Fathertime!

[lordtiberius]

I see why you praise Obama.

[southernX]

For me, I believe we (US citizens) should continue to speak our piece about our foreign policy.  When residents of outside countries make demands about what our country should be doing, I don't think it should matter very much in terms of what we wind up doing.  I happen to really like life here in the US of A...and have concerns it is going to get all screwed up by getting too involved abroad.  We don't NEED to be in Ukraine, we don't need to be attempting to sway elections, we don't need to be facilitating the assassination of foreign leaders which is what I believe we have done/been doing.

Fathertime! 

FT thing is , america for its own vested interests in that region  has been involved in the joint removal of ukraines nuclear weapons, america with others signed the budapest memorandum, thus your country/gov ''IS ''involved, & it has by being a signatory placed itself & its people under an expectation from ukraine ,
now whether 20 years later the populace likes it or even agrees does not change that fact.

where the american gov  went astray when setting the budapest deal up  was  in not factoring in the long term possibility that ukraine may be into the future under threat from russia and they would call them on their commitment
as i think the US never has intended to invade either ukraine or russia there mind set [foreign policy strategys ] didnt conceive the reverse

SX

[cc3]

I doubt LFU is posting anti-western propaganda on message boards all over town... For me, I believe we (US citizens) should continue to speak our piece about our foreign policy.  When residents of outside countries make demands about what our country should be doing, I don't think it should matter very much in terms of what we wind up doing.  I happen to really like life here in the US of A...and  have concerns it is going to get all screwed up by getting too involved abroad. We don't NEED to be in Ukraine , we don't need to be attempting to sway elections, we don't need to be facilitating the assassination of foreign leaders which is what I believe we have done/been doing.

Fathertime!

FT, personally speaking, I had long range plans, formulated last summer, to sell one of my American houses, move to Ukraine, marry my fiancee, and live with her in Luhansk until she received the two university degrees that she is studying for. So...I did NEED to be in Ukraine,and that fascist, Pitler, has totally screwed with our lives. I don't wish to sway any elections, but I believe any idiot threatening Ukrainian citizens with his Kalashnikov, while flashing the Russian flag, should be executed where he stands for being either (1) the traitor that he is or (2) a Russian terrorist, invading a foreign country...both occasions of execution would be legal in international law.

[calmissile]

FT, personally speaking, I had long range plans formulated last summer, to sell one of my American houses, move to Ukraine, marry my fiancee, and live with her in Luhansk until she received the two university degrees that she is studying for. So...I did NEED to be in Ukraine,and that fascist, Pitler, has totally screwed with our lives. I don't wish to sway any elections, but I believe any idiot threatening Ukrainian citizens with his Kalashnikov, while flashing the Russian flag, should be executed where he stands for being (1) either the traitor that he is or (2) being  a Russian terrorist, invading a foreign country...both occasions of execution would be legal in international law.

Ditto!   +1
The only way they should be allowed to leave Ukriane (Including Crimea) is through a hail of machine gun fire!

[JayH]

FT, personally speaking, I had long range plans, formulated last summer, to sell one of my American houses, move to Ukraine, marry my fiancee, and live with her in Luhansk until she received the two university degrees that she is studying for. So...I did NEED to be in Ukraine,and that fascist, Pitler, has totally screwed with our lives. I don't wish to sway any elections, but I believe any idiot threatening Ukrainian citizens with his Kalashnikov, while flashing the Russian flag, should be executed where he stands for being either (1) the traitor that he is or (2) a Russian terrorist, invading a foreign country...both occasions of execution would be legal in international law.

 

Ditto!   +1
The only way they should be allowed to leave Ukriane (Including Crimea) is through a hail of machine gun fire!

[JayH]

LFU,

    A paper trail of cash ?

Is this another one of your unsubstantiated conspiracy theories again ?..yawn :rolleyes

Show the proof ,or are you just full of hot air ?


And your feeble attempt at deflection doesn't work..so once again i'll ask you which other country did the Kiev protestors invade and steal land from ?

And while you're at it,show us where the Kiev protestors were chanting USA,USA or even Engerland,Engerland ,waving those countries flags,and asking those countries to invade.

Whereas of course there is plenty of film of the pro Russian seperatists ,waving Russian flags,chanting Russia,Russia and inviting Russia to invade Ukraine,in between shooting down Ukraine Helicopters..

Rather a large difference there,even in your world where everything is in grey and full of conspiracies

Your comments about Putin sound a bit gay by the way ..shows how your mind works..that sure isn't a grey area 

Guys --  expecting any  factual or common sense from  the inane band of  apologists for Russia's criminal behaviour there is truly some strange bedfellows for FT -- who thinks getting innocent people murdered and a massive disruption to the lives of Ukrainians  is a "win-win" situation-- next up-- agreeing mostly with him is a guy who says 9/ 11 never happened-- that the US faked the moon landing !!  Next up is a guy who bites the hands of friendship-- and comes to the forum with a skinful to post belligerent posts , a guy who posts dubiously accurate material in the guise of "direct" information. Then we have a short arse who is at angst with the world at large-- and more often than not litters his posts with insults to others-- btw--he also needs to be on the "turps" to post is inane ignorance.
Given that I think Putin is a ridiclous little man-- and a few of the guys I mentioned are height challenged-- maybe it is the lack of oxygen that has affected them !!

ps-- good to see Prince Charles is reading the forum and agrees with us that Putin is 2014 version of Hitler!!

[lonedrake]

agreeing mostly with him is a guy who says 9/ 11 never happened-

I assume they think is was a US government plot......but anyways who are you talking about?

[fathertime]

FT, personally speaking, I had long range plans, formulated last summer, to sell one of my American houses, move to Ukraine, marry my fiancee, and live with her in Luhansk until she received the two university degrees that she is studying for. So...I did NEED to be in Ukraine,and that fascist, Pitler, has totally screwed with our lives. I don't wish to sway any elections, but I believe any idiot threatening Ukrainian citizens with his Kalashnikov, while flashing the Russian flag, should be executed where he stands for being either (1) the traitor that he is or (2) a Russian terrorist, invading a foreign country...both occasions of execution would be legal in international law.

Hey cc3, good luck with the plan/fiancee...

Anger has to be directed somewhere I guess, although If I had it I wouldn't direct it all at Russia, but I am not you obviously.  It is quite possible this conflict will not continue much longer…the vote is coming up very soon…and I imagine decisions will be made and those decisions may strike a compromise that brings relative peace to the area.  Well it is worth a shot.

Guys --  expecting any  factual or common sense from  the inane band of  apologists for Russia's criminal behaviour there is truly some strange bedfellows for FT -- who thinks getting innocent people murdered and a massive disruption to the lives of Ukrainians  is a "win-win" situation-

Well obviously Jay your misstatement of the position I've taken is grotesque. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

Well obviously Jay your misstatement of the position I've taken is grotesque.

FT, I wouldn't worry too much about Jay "My mind is like an empty book" H.  He isn't the sharpest tack in the bunch and unless he reads it on yahoo he wouldn't know his ass from his nose.  JayH is an average MOBer and now you may understand why some view them as they do.

[cc3]

@ FT (as I posted on another forum):
Fiancee reported yesterday that everyone in town (Luhansk) was sent home from jobs and school and told to shelter in their homes and not go outside for their safety. All normal (non-russophile nut cases, that is) individuals sense great danger in the present situation. She further reports that there is no evidence that the national election will occur in Luhansk on Sunday. She should know, being a member of the city election commission.

Reply that I received from expat resident of Bila Tverska (south of Kyiv):
"I was at a funeral yesterday. Two of the attendees were from Luhansk, and had arrived the night before in B.T. They both are NOT going back due to the in their words in English "Flucking idiot Russian dick lovers who are tearing everything apart." They are afraid to go out at night, the train ride out was scary because there were people with guns at the train station. Too many people afraid to speak out against Russia.

They guy is a sailor, rather burly, speaks German, Russian, English and Turkish and not so good on his Ukrainian, his mom was old but not frail. He comes home every few months after a voyage out of Odesa, and said the change in Luhansk was drastic from when he was home 6 weeks ago. I didn't see fear in his eyes as much as I saw disgust. The mother didn't say much, other than the fact that she will be happy to live where people are not stupid.

They were NOT surprised that there were no roving bands of Nazi loving fools here beating up Russians speakers. "Only goats believe these tales." she said.

I got a little more from him, but mostly he amazed how crazy I was for moving to Ukraine, you know the usual.  "

[JayH]

 For those that still cannot get it into their thickheads-- Ukrainians DO NOT WANT RUSSIA OR RUSSIAN PATSIES there.

An interesting and funny if it was not so serious  link-- it has English sub titles so no excuse not to understand the words.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27541005

#BBCtrending: Ukraine's 'babushkas' in stand-off with separatists

23 May 2014 Last updated at 14:51 BST

A Ukrainian grandmother and her daughter have become YouTube hits after chasing away pro-Russian separatists in their neighbourhood.

The women's mobile phone footage of the incident in Kramatorsk, over 100km (62 miles) from Donetsk, has been watched more than 700,000 times.

ADDED LATER

http://ukr-online.com/crime/6104-siloviki-vryatuvali-rodinu-smlivoyi-zhnki-z-kramatorska-yaku-teroristi-pogrozhuvali-stratiti.html

It is more on that story and update.

[JayH]

FT, I wouldn't worry too much about Jay "My mind is like an empty book" H.  He isn't the sharpest tack in the bunch and unless he reads it on yahoo he wouldn't know his ass from his nose.  JayH is an average MOBer and now you may understand why some view them as they do.

Funny thing is that you will be very close to clueless as to my situation-- so much so you are incapable even to read the link sources I post.
Of the people I described earlier which is you?  Maybe to the guy that says 911 never happened? Or that the US never landed on the moon?
Yeah-- your credible LOL ( at you-not with you_)

[Anotherkiwi]

On a slightly different tack, it amazes me that so many countries appear ready to wash their hands of Syria, with reportedly 150,000 dead already in their civil war, and Ukraine, where the events which are happening in the east already affect millions of people, and may affect millions more if the violence escalates into a true civil war or invasion, yet they're ready to instantly send teams to Nigeria to help look for a mere 200 or so missing schoolgirls.

Please don't misunderstand me - I, too, wish those girls to be found unharmed and returned to their families as soon as possible.  I just think that it's highly hypocritical of so many in high places, including the U.S. President's family, to be waving those placards saying "Bring back the girls" and not waving placards saying "Assad - talk to the rebels" or "Let Ukraine decide its own future."