What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?

[Faux Pas]

On a slightly different tack, it amazes me that so many countries appear ready to wash their hands of Syria, with reportedly 150,000 dead already in their civil war, and Ukraine, where the events which are happening in the east already affect millions of people, and may affect millions more if the violence escalates into a true civil war or invasion, yet they're ready to instantly send teams to Nigeria to help look for a mere 200 or so missing schoolgirls.

Please don't misunderstand me - I, too, wish those girls to be found unharmed and returned to their families as soon as possible.  I just think that it's highly hypocritical of so many in high places, including the U.S. President's family, to be waving those placards saying "Bring back the girls" and not waving placards saying "Assad - talk to the rebels" or "Let Ukraine decide its own future."

Agreed but, that is the world we live in.

Along that same note, you do understand that Boko Haram is merely following the Koran and the religion you love to defend, don't you? 

[BillyB]

On a slightly different tack, it amazes me that so many countries appear ready to wash their hands of Syria, with reportedly 150,000 dead already in their civil war,

One reason big nations have responsibility with what is happening in Syria is because we do have the ability to stop the war and save lives. If America and the EU bombed a road to the capitol just like they did in Libya, the war would be over.


Syria doesn't have as much resources as Libya and I think it's one of the countries the West allows Russia to have influence over. People will remember that they were thrown out to slaughter. If the civilians eventually win the war in Syria, I suspect they will be much more hostile to the West than the current government because we aren't there to help the good guys get into power. What does hostile mean? It means more people are going to die and the West may be the ones paying in blood.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Funny thing is that you will be very close to clueless as to my situation-- so much so you are incapable even to read the link sources I post.
Of the people I described earlier which is you?  Maybe to the guy that says 911 never happened? Or that the US never landed on the moon?
Yeah-- your credible LOL ( at you-not with you_)

JayH, you don't have a clue as to what I read or don't.  The last thing I want to know is your situation.  Most of your posts are links to Yahoo.  That tells me you can't formulate enough of your own thoughts to make a complete post and would rather rely on posting links to feel you're contributing.  Hell, even this post is so garbled it hurts my brain trying to figure out what you are babbling on about.   


The funny thing is all I know about you is you drove a car which I am finding hard to believe every time you post.

[LiveFromUkraine]

On a slightly different tack, it amazes me that so many countries appear ready to wash their hands of Syria, with reportedly 150,000 dead already in their civil war, and Ukraine, where the events which are happening in the east already affect millions of people, and may affect millions more if the violence escalates into a true civil war or invasion, yet they're ready to instantly send teams to Nigeria to help look for a mere 200 or so missing schoolgirls.

Please don't misunderstand me - I, too, wish those girls to be found unharmed and returned to their families as soon as possible.  I just think that it's highly hypocritical of so many in high places, including the U.S. President's family, to be waving those placards saying "Bring back the girls" and not waving placards saying "Assad - talk to the rebels" or "Let Ukraine decide its own future."

Kiwi, do you really think it would be a good idea for western countries to send in troops to Syria and Ukraine? 


I take it you do based on what you posted.

I don't...  we are not talking about sending troops to help but also to keep troops there to maintain peace if peace is even achieved.  These are long term solutions and I don't think those types of actions would be accepted in America with everything that has happened in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[Anotherkiwi]

Kiwi, do you really think it would be a good idea for western countries to send in troops to Syria and Ukraine? 


I take it you do based on what you posted.

I don't...  we are not talking about sending troops to help but also to keep troops there to maintain peace if peace is even achieved.  These are long term solutions and I don't think those types of actions would be accepted in America with everything that has happened in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I'm looking at it more from the point of view of a proper UN peacekeeping force, rather than troops being sent under their national flags, which I agree would almost certainly inflame the situation in both countries.  Whatever their feelings towards "the West," combatants on all sides in recent conflicts seem to have more respect for the UN's objectives than they do towards (for example) American troops operating under the US flag.

[JayH]

JayH, you don't have a clue as to what I read or don't.  The last thing I want to know is your situation.  Most of your posts are links to Yahoo.  That tells me you can't formulate enough of your own thoughts to make a complete post and would rather rely on posting links to feel you're contributing.  Hell, even this post is so garbled it hurts my brain trying to figure out what you are babbling on about.   


The funny thing is all I know about you is you drove a car which I am finding hard to believe every time you post.

Your comments show you are clueless as to what is in the links I have posted-- the point of the links is there is a lot of factual information from those very close to the situation-- some with overall view .Some links are clear rebuttals to some crazy comments from the few apologists here for Putin's stupidity. As far as Yahoo is concerned-- I would bet a lot of money that less than 1% of links I posted is to Yahoo source-- so really --is that another deliberate lie or just your ignorance ?
For all to see here-- you are the guy who says 911 never happened--correct? The point I am making is that is in line with your generally looney posts on the FSU .

[LiveFromUkraine]

Your comments show you are clueless as to what is in the links I have posted-- the point of the links is there is a lot of factual information from those very close to the situation-- some with overall view .Some links are clear rebuttals to some crazy comments from the few apologists here for Putin's stupidity. As far as Yahoo is concerned-- I would bet a lot of money that less than 1% of links I posted is to Yahoo source-- so really --is that another deliberate lie or just your ignorance ?
For all to see here-- you are the guy who says 911 never happened--correct? The point I am making is that is in line with your generally looney posts on the FSU .

Does anyone have a JayH translator available?  I'm still trying to work out what 911 has to do with all of this and why he keeps asking me if it ever happened.  Anyone speak imbecile that could help with his latest post?


Maybe he is reading an old version of Yahoo and thinks 911 just happened.

[lonedrake]

I'm still trying to work out what 911 has to do with all of this and why he keeps asking me if it ever happened.

Jays point is that if someone believes 911 never happened......they should not be allowed out of lockdown at the psych ward......much less giving advice about anything.(ok...maybe he didn't quite say that)

Now I have no idea if this is what you believe....and I don't think you do....but it is always good to know what state of mind a poster is coming from.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Jays point is that if someone believes 911 never happened......they should not be allowed out of lockdown at the psych ward......much less giving advice about anything.(ok...maybe he didn't quite say that)

Now I have no idea if this is what you believe....and I don't think you do....but it is always good to know what state of mind a poster is coming from.

I appreciate the translation lonedrake.  Don't you find it strange he just randomly accuses someone of those types of things?  Hell, I don't recall ever talking about 911 and I definitely never said or thought it didn't happen.


Maybe the dude is confusing me with his imaginary friend or something.  Like you said, it's good to know his state of mind.

[JayH]

Jays point is that if someone believes 911 never happened......they should not be allowed out of lockdown at the psych ward......much less giving advice about anything.(ok...maybe he didn't quite say that)

Now I have no idea if this is what you believe....and I don't think you do....but it is always good to know what state of mind a poster is coming from.

LD-- you do have my point !!
Maybe I am mistaken about 911 with this guy-- maybe it is the moon landing he is in denial about. It is one of these loonies that believes that stuff- like it is all fiction.Now we have the looney fringe trying to tell us that Russia has not invaded Ukraine  !!

[JayH]

For those that still cannot get it into their thickheads-- Ukrainians DO NOT WANT RUSSIA OR RUSSIAN PATSIES there.

An interesting and funny if it was not so serious  link-- it has English sub titles so no excuse not to understand the words.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-27541005

#BBCtrending: Ukraine's 'babushkas' in stand-off with separatists

23 May 2014 Last updated at 14:51 BST

A Ukrainian grandmother and her daughter have become YouTube hits after chasing away pro-Russian separatists in their neighbourhood.

The women's mobile phone footage of the incident in Kramatorsk, over 100km (62 miles) from Donetsk, has been watched more than 700,000 times.

ADDED LATER

http://ukr-online.com/crime/6104-siloviki-vryatuvali-rodinu-smlivoyi-zhnki-z-kramatorska-yaku-teroristi-pogrozhuvali-stratiti.html

It is more on that story and update.

More on this story
"This woman has become famous all over Ukraine after with a neighbor drove with his street fighters arrived in the van," - said in a statement.

Later accomplices militants began to threaten Sofia physical violence. She had three children while hiding from the terrorists, who promised her execution. This prompted Sofia to seek help from the military.
http://telegraf.com.ua/ukraina/mestnyiy/1298220-voennyie-spasli-zhitelnitsu-kramatorska-vyignavshuyu-boevikov-s-ulitsyi.html

[fathertime]

.Now we have the looney fringe trying to tell us that Russia has not invaded Ukraine  !!

I don't believe that Russia has invaded Ukraine (aside from stealing Crimea, which was never denied by me).  The election is about to occur and the Russian troops have not moved, several said this election would never happen and Russia would invade all of Ukraine.  Some with unsteady hands said we (the USA) needed to act militarily before the invasion happened... All those people were mistaken...Russia was never going to invade E. Ukraine...sure there are some ruffians that are out killing people (from both sides) and there does appear to be a measure of disharmony in parts of E. Ukraine, but that does not constitute an invasion.   Soon the new ELECTED leader can make some decisions about which direction to go.  If certain regions gain some autonomy because that is what they want, there is nothing wrong with that. 


In the end
1.  Russia will have added Crimea to their holdings, and possibly retain influence in Eastern Regions of Ukraine.
2.  The rest of Ukraine will move towards the west.


These results would be acceptable enough to many, perhaps even most...we (the USA) will have hurt ourselves by getting involved.  It will hopefully soon be time to turn the page...imo


Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

On a slightly different tack, it amazes me that so many countries appear ready to wash their hands of Syria, with reportedly 150,000 dead already in their civil war, and Ukraine, where the events which are happening in the east already affect millions of people, and may affect millions more if the violence escalates into a true civil war or invasion, yet they're ready to instantly send teams to Nigeria to help look for a mere 200 or so missing schoolgirls.

Please don't misunderstand me - I, too, wish those girls to be found unharmed and returned to their families as soon as possible.  I just think that it's highly hypocritical of so many in high places, including the U.S. President's family, to be waving those placards saying "Bring back the girls" and not waving placards saying "Assad - talk to the rebels" or "Let Ukraine decide its own future."

There are conflicts springing up all over the world right now...the UN will not have the resources to intervene and in addition many of the countries don't want outside interference and would wind up killing peacekeepers.  If people have to fight it out, then so be it. As long as we are not causing the fighting we don't have an obligation to stretch our resources to try to clean up the messes of the world. 


Fathertime!     

 

[fathertime]

One reason big nations have responsibility with what is happening in Syria is because we do have the ability to stop the war and save lives. If America and the EU bombed a road to the capitol just like they did in Libya, the war would be over.


Syria doesn't have as much resources as Libya and I think it's one of the countries the West allows Russia to have influence over. People will remember that they were thrown out to slaughter. If the civilians eventually win the war in Syria, I suspect they will be much more hostile to the West than the current government because we aren't there to help the good guys get into power. What does hostile mean? It means more people are going to die and the West may be the ones paying in blood.

Hey BillyB,


I don't think we should be bombing any roads in Syria...I don't think it would end the killing either. If we were to feel we could bomb at will eventually other countries might begin to feel the same way, next thing you know China or another country will start bombing countries if they decided they didn't agree with, and we wouldn't have a leg to stand on when we wagged our finger at them to stop.   We should stay outta Syria's mess...eventually they will figure it out and if they don't...it is their problem, we (the USA) don't need to be involved with our people/bombs/resources.


Fathertime!   

[Chelseaboy]

Pro-Russian seperatists are not allowing LEGAL voting for a new President to take place in Donetsk and Luhansk today,being filmed smashing up the polling booths.

Guess that must be the evil west behind this 

[BC]

Pro-Russian seperatists are not allowing LEGAL voting for a new President to take place in Donetsk and Luhansk today,being filmed smashing up the polling booths.

Guess that must be the evil west behind this 

Well, considering both places have a higher RU oriented voting population that would not make sense at all..

[lordtiberius]

There 15% of the E. Ukrainian population and not even united for Putler and that's a majority?

[AkMike]

Actually it's more than 15% in eastern UA.

 But hardly a majority! And they've been Ukrainians since the fall of the USSR. (except for the recent terrorists/tourists)

[Anotherkiwi]

Actually it's more than 15% in eastern UA.

 But hardly a majority! And they've been Ukrainians since the fall of the USSR. (except for the recent terrorists/tourists)

And yet again - how many of those people have EVER been harassed just for being Russian speakers?  Putin's 40,000 troops are there just to protect the rights of six people! 

[BillyB]

I don't think we should be bombing any roads in Syria...I don't think it would end the killing either.

The killing won't end but ending the war in 3 months instead of letting it drag out 3 years will save lives.

next thing you know China or another country will start bombing countries if they decided they didn't agree with, and we wouldn't have a leg to stand on when we wagged our finger at them to stop.   

One reason China and Russia has played nice the past years is because America is tough with enforcing international laws.

As long as we are not causing the fighting we don't have an obligation to stretch our resources to try to clean up the messes of the world. 

One reason Russia and China have recently expanded their borders is because Obama is softer than past presidents and this presented them with an opportunity.


If we don't take some preventive measures now, things will get worse in the future and harder to stop. People are rightfully worried that Putin will continue past Ukraine even if it doesn't sound logical. Putin has done some of the same things as Hitler. People were too lazy to stop Hitler's violation of international laws.


Unless Putin can buy the new president of Ukraine, he will continue to cause Ukraine problems. The pro Russians there have vowed to create "New Russia", a name Putin invented to replace Ukraine.

[lordtiberius]

China is the big winner in Ukraine for they will do as they have in Asia and Africa, colonize Siberia.  Its one thing for Putin to lie in bed he made, will you please tell him to stop wetting it?

[AkMike]

I asked just this question when I was there recently. Since I wasn't about to go into the free fire zone I did ask friends and family to contact their friends and family in Krim and ask.

 Out of my little limited poll the simple answer is NONE.

 Putler is in it for land and the gas oil reserves not to mention the considerable savings of the  cost of the South Stream Gas Line being run overland or in shallow waters to Bulgaria VS the deep water route across the Black Sea.

[fathertime]

The killing won't end but ending the war in 3 months instead of letting it drag out 3 years will save lives.



One reason China and Russia has played nice the past years is because America is tough with enforcing international laws.



One reason Russia and China have recently expanded their borders is because Obama is softer than past presidents and this presented them with an opportunity.


If we don't take some preventive measures now, things will get worse in the future and harder to stop. People are rightfully worried that Putin will continue past Ukraine even if it doesn't sound logical. Putin has done some of the same things as Hitler. People were too lazy to stop Hitler's violation of international laws.
 

Hey Billy,
I see it a different way…it is finally now that many of the countries of the world have had enough of American intervention, and are going to react against our perceived arrogance.  We got a fairly free pass on Iraq and Afghanistan due to 9/11…After this though, what we did with Khadafy and were on the cusp of doing in the Syria, not to mention the weekly drone attacks in other nations, represented a new high watermark of interventionism.  I’m hoping that it winds up being our peak of international interventionism as we continue to decline as the world’s police.  The people here won’t have the stomach for an Obama war, or any other US leader war, unless we have very very good cause.

   China/Libya/Egypt/Ukraine/Thailand/Syria/Iraq/Iran/Venezuela/ Palestine  etc etc.  The end result of our ‘help’ has led to crisis’s  around the globe…I am for us packing up our duds and scooting on home…As long as we don’t help create the conditions for conflicts, we can let whatever happens happen and do business with the remaining party.  As it stands we are losing ground on nearly every front, and it isn’t because of Obama, for better or worse the American people are behind him with a less hands on policy.  Perhaps you can make the case for the Urgent need to threaten/use our armed forces to intervene elsewhere, but it would have to be an extremely strong case as those armed forces are supposed to be used as a defense for us, and most of nation won't agree to having our kids killed to protect some Syrian/Ukrainian/Iraqi citizens *at least not anymore*…these nations can put in their own work...we are all stocked up with our own to-do list of things to deal with. 


Fathertime! 

[lordtiberius]

Your hate has perverted your morals.  Your pride has blinded you. To say such a thing on Memorial Day is barbaric in its insensitivity.  What treachery.  To receive invective about my honor from one without is an honor.  Judas is worried you might take his comfy spot in the infernal regions.

[Chelseaboy]

Shots fired at Donetsk airport today after pro-Russian seperatists took control and forced its closure.

Meanwhile Russia warns the new President of Ukraine he's not to tackle the pro-Russian seperatists/thugs.