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Author Topic: My view of the war  (Read 240899 times)

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Offline GQBlues

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My view of the war
« Reply #475 on: September 30, 2014, 10:41:20 AM »
It's a dirty proxy war, Muzh...

Amnesty International is definitely having a field day with this grass rooted fight for *freedom* and *justice*, or whatever folks would like to believe this conflict really is.

War Crimes.
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline GQBlues

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My view of the war
« Reply #476 on: September 30, 2014, 10:52:43 AM »
The US witnessed two Americans beheaded by ISIS and we promptly went after ISIS to correct that wrong to feel *justified and vindicated*.

But then OTOH, we turn around and support a government whose soldiers are doing exactly the same thing to others..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2751148/Mother-Ukrainian-rebel-hostage-claims-received-head-post-Amnesty-International-says-evidence-war-crimes.html

This stupid, stupid war/conflict need to end and our support of it. The latter hopefully would come much sooner..
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 11:01:44 AM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Doll

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My view of the war
« Reply #477 on: September 30, 2014, 11:09:40 AM »


Offline Brasscasing

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My view of the war
« Reply #478 on: September 30, 2014, 12:06:42 PM »
The US witnessed two Americans beheaded by ISIS and we promptly went after ISIS to correct that wrong to feel *justified and vindicated*.

But then OTOH, we turn around and support a government whose soldiers are doing exactly the same thing to others..

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2751148/Mother-Ukrainian-rebel-hostage-claims-received-head-post-Amnesty-International-says-evidence-war-crimes.html

This stupid, stupid war/conflict need to end and our support of it. The latter hopefully would come much sooner..

Claims of atrocities regarding hostages on both sides are ongoing and will continue, I'm sure.

As to this specific report/article you may have provided an answer to your own observation/comments.

We (the West), at the very time this article/story surfaced, were voicing outrage regarding the ISIS executions and about to declare war on the terrorists/militant group in the Middle East.

Almost on cue images of beheadings and reports of severed heads being 'mailed' to family members by Ukraine nationalist forces start to surface supplied by Ukrainian separatist factions. Not confirmed reports mind you just unsubstantiated claims.

Coincidental? Maybe. However, if I were in charge of GRU disinformation it'd be awful hard to resist developing a story that tried to connect/compare activities by Ukraine nationalists with ISIS seeing as ISIS is the West/NATO/US flavor of the month.

Further, (not that I rely on AI's reporting they're shameless publicity hounds) if we are to believe AI they have joined the ever increasing group of so-called independent organizations confirming that Russian troops are in Russian held Ukraine supplying and reinforcing the rebels which the Kremlin continues to deny.

I would agree with you regarding this war needs to end - it would be nice if all armed conflicts worldwide ended...but not at the expense of Ukraine. The world tried appeasement of aggressor nations 70+ years ago. Didn't work then, won't work now.

Brass 
...Build the wall. Even Heaven has a gate...

"Because without America there is no free world" ~ Canada Free Press

Offline Gator

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My view of the war
« Reply #479 on: September 30, 2014, 12:33:02 PM »
It's a dirty proxy war, Muzh...


Why do you believe this is a proxy war?    A proxy war would feature a conflict between two small parties on behalf of two superpowers.  I see just one superpower taking the proxy role.


The pro-Russian separatists are receiving aid and arms from Russia, and when that was not enough Russia provided enough elite regular troops to stop the Ukrainians. 


In contrast, the Ukrainians are receiving little aid and no arms.  The West superpowers are not arming Ukraine because this conflict can not be resolved by military force. 


Ukraine has shown much moxie in standing up to the Russian bear.  However, just as in Georgia, when Russia sent in its regular army, it was over, quickly.


10-15 years from now Western TV will have commercial ads saying"Visit Ukraine," and modernized Ukrainian industry and agriculture will be busy producing goods for its fellow EU trade partners.     The Donbas region will resemble....who knows, perhaps Chechyna.  And Crimea will resemble......who knows, perhaps Turkish Cyprus.  And Russia......a petro rich North Korea. 




Offline GQBlues

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« Reply #480 on: September 30, 2014, 12:35:56 PM »
Just as in any war, regardless of participants, there will be truths and lies buried on top of each other. There will be casualties suffered both by the participants and the innocents. Who did what, how, when and where means so very little to those directly victimized by these atrocities.

Culpability in these types of events are not solely delegated to those in arms or in the field, but also those involved in whatever measure or reasons behind it.

I don't care what the genesis of this conflict was, nor do I give a hoot what its cause is...all I care about for now is get my country out of it's participation in this mess regardless of whatever or whomever is in the muck. Enough.

We have enough mess and blood on our hands beyond the mess in Ukraine we helped create and supported.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2014, 12:37:36 PM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline GQBlues

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My view of the war
« Reply #481 on: September 30, 2014, 12:36:54 PM »

Why do you believe this is a proxy war?    A proxy war would feature a conflict between two small parties on behalf of two superpowers.  I see just one superpower taking the proxy role....

That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion as I am with mine..
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline Gator

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My view of the war
« Reply #482 on: September 30, 2014, 12:45:05 PM »


This stupid, stupid war/conflict need to end and our support of it. The latter hopefully would come much sooner..


This conflict will not end until Russia pulls out.    The current truce may continue as long as Russia does not open new fronts. 





...all I care about for now is get my country out of it's participation in this mess regardless of whatever or whomever is in the muck. Enough.


Why do you persist in pointing your fingers at the US?  We have done very little other than enact some economic sanctions. 

Offline AC

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« Reply #483 on: September 30, 2014, 02:34:33 PM »

10-15 years from now Western TV will have commercial ads saying"Visit Ukraine," and modernized Ukrainian industry and agriculture will be busy producing goods for its fellow EU trade partners.     The Donbas region will resemble....who knows, perhaps Chechyna.  And Crimea will resemble......who knows, perhaps Turkish Cyprus.  And Russia......a petro rich North Korea.


 :ROFL:

lordtiberius

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My view of the war
« Reply #484 on: September 30, 2014, 03:30:30 PM »
Show us the Ukrainian abuses against the Ruskies, no comparison.

Offline Belvis

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« Reply #485 on: October 01, 2014, 01:53:13 AM »
Why do you persist in pointing your fingers at the US?

Because US send their retired military to fight against Ukraine.  :rolleyes:

http://www.newsweek.com/meet-hunter-american-fighting-ukrainian-separatists-273919

Offline Anotherkiwi

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« Reply #486 on: October 01, 2014, 03:00:44 AM »
Because US send their retired military to fight against Ukraine.  :rolleyes:

http://www.newsweek.com/meet-hunter-american-fighting-ukrainian-separatists-273919

Are you hallucinating, Belvis?  One man suddenly becomes the whole "retired military" sent by the US?  Maybe you should join in - then you can be part of the "Russian soldiers fighting volunteering to help during their holidays!"

lordtiberius

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My view of the war
« Reply #487 on: October 01, 2014, 04:35:41 AM »
Belvis, "Hunter from Illinois" is fighting for you not us.

Offline Belvis

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« Reply #488 on: October 01, 2014, 05:27:30 AM »
Are you hallucinating, Belvis?  One man suddenly becomes the whole "retired military" sent by the US? 
Hah, I'm not a professional, I'm only a beginner in propaganda business :D
Answering your question, why not?  If russian volunteers became Russian army in west media interpretation, everything is possible. We can only guess how many US volunteers are fighting there  8)

Offline Muzh

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« Reply #489 on: October 01, 2014, 06:59:37 AM »
We (the West), at the very time this article/story surfaced, were voicing outrage regarding the ISIS executions and about to declare war on the terrorists/militant group in the Middle East.

Almost on cue images of beheadings and reports of severed heads being 'mailed' to family members by Ukraine nationalist forces start to surface supplied by Ukrainian separatist factions. Not confirmed reports mind you just unsubstantiated claims.

Coincidental? Maybe. However, if I were in charge of GRU disinformation it'd be awful hard to resist developing a story that tried to connect/compare activities by Ukraine nationalists with ISIS seeing as ISIS is the West/NATO/US flavor of the month.

Brass


Heh, of course it is coincidental. How can you accuse the Russians of disinformation?


Shame.


Oh BTW, have you seen the latest truth?


Russian State Media Portray Hong Kong Protests as U.S. Plot
Echoing Kremlin Line on Protests in Moscow and Kiev, State TV Sees U.S. Hand in Pro-Democracy Movement


WSJ
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Muzh

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« Reply #490 on: October 01, 2014, 07:02:09 AM »

Why do you believe this is a proxy war?    A proxy war would feature a conflict between two small parties on behalf of two superpowers.  I see just one superpower taking the proxy role.



I'm sorry but what superpower are you referring to?

The pro-Russian separatists are receiving aid and arms from Russia, and when that was not enough Russia provided enough elite regular troops to stop the Ukrainians. 



I believe you have made a crass mistake in judgement. Russia cannot claim to be a superpower. Even Putin says so.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 07:03:57 AM by Muzh »
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Isthmus

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« Reply #491 on: October 01, 2014, 07:38:26 AM »
Here is a crazy idea, maybe the Hongkongese actually want a say in how they are governed. And maybe, just maybe the Ukrainians want to make their own choices about their own country's future!

Not everything has to be a US plot you know.

Offline Muzh

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« Reply #492 on: October 01, 2014, 07:47:21 AM »
Here is a crazy idea, maybe the Hongkongese actually want a say in how they are governed. And maybe, just maybe the Ukrainians want to make their own choices about their own country's future!

Not everything has to be a US plot you know.


Bullshevik, it is a CIA plot. Just ask any Russian.  ;D
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Muzh

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« Reply #493 on: October 01, 2014, 07:49:24 AM »
And so it starts:


Donbas Residents Began Guerrilla Warfare Against Terrorists Attacking Militants and Neutralizing Artillery - NSDC


Censor.Net






To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline Brasscasing

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« Reply #494 on: October 01, 2014, 08:49:14 AM »

Russian State Media Portray Hong Kong Protests as U.S. Plot
Echoing Kremlin Line on Protests in Moscow and Kiev, State TV Sees U.S. Hand in Pro-Democracy Movement

Hong Kong protests? HONG KONG PROTESTS?!? There's no stinkin' Hong Kong protests...

China censors images of Hong Kong protests in TV broadcasts to mainland

"State channel shows rally in support of central government, while information about protests severely restricted on social media"

"While television sets in Hong Kong blaze with images of the pro-democracy protests that have paralysed the central business district since Sunday, citizens in mainland China have been getting a very different story: that a few thousand people gathered in a local park to celebrate the Chinese government."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/29/china-censors-images-hong-kong-protests

 :P

Brass

« Last Edit: October 01, 2014, 08:51:27 AM by Brasscasing »
...Build the wall. Even Heaven has a gate...

"Because without America there is no free world" ~ Canada Free Press

Offline Drew

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« Reply #495 on: October 01, 2014, 08:57:34 AM »
Even more.  Kate says gossip circulating on Russian talk sites tell that USA started problem because we worried there were too many Russian and Ukrainian peoples.  So USA wants them to kill each other to thin the ranks out.

And more.  USA started Ebola outbreak because we want to reduce the number of black people in Africa.

Are these low lifes still drinking too much vodka?

Offline Doll

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« Reply #496 on: October 01, 2014, 09:12:33 AM »
Here is a crazy idea, maybe the Hongkongese actually want a say in how they are governed. And maybe, just maybe the Ukrainians want to make their own choices about their own country's future!

Not everything has to be a US plot you know.
OMG! Why is this idea CRAZY?
What do mean- "not everything"?
Nothing but the US itself is American plot.

Offline Gator

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« Reply #497 on: October 01, 2014, 09:47:40 AM »
Even more.  Kate says gossip circulating on Russian talk sites tell that USA started problem because we worried there were too many Russian and Ukrainian peoples.  So USA wants them to kill each other to thin the ranks out.

And more.  USA started Ebola outbreak because we want to reduce the number of black people in Africa.

Are these low lifes still drinking too much vodka?


There is still another conspiracy theory; however, this was started by the Iraqi Shia not by the Russians.


The conspiracy theory is that the CIA started and funded ISIS with the eventual objective of returning American troops  to Iraq and giving the Sunni more power.   


So on the absurdity scale, which conspiracy theory is the most absurd?


 

Offline GQBlues

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« Reply #498 on: October 01, 2014, 09:55:33 AM »
I especially like the one where the CIA negotiated with the mob to assassinate Fidel Castro. That was just ridiculous, no?

That's almost as ridiculous as believing our State Department were wire-tapping other country's states-persons private/classified conversations.

What has the world gone to... :-[
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline fathertime

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« Reply #499 on: October 01, 2014, 10:18:54 AM »
Quote from: Doll link=topic=17913.msg377850#msg377850 date=1412179953
What do mean- "not everything"?
Nothing but the US itself is American plot.
[/quote
This is a good statement. We (America) are involved in just about every continent.   It is too much now.  The American people generally would like to see a pullback and refocus on the home front.  Trotting around and facilitating the assassination of foreign leaders such as Assad or khadafi is not our job or decision. If continue to do these sort of things we should expect that other strong nations will follow suit.

Fathertime!
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

 

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