My view of the war

[lordtiberius]

Its because I am a Muslim atheist.

[JohnDearGreen]

Strelkov is dying

2018 presidential polls
Girkin  28.7%
Putin  19.9%


http://gordonua.com/news/worldnews/Girkin-operedil-Putina-v-prezidentskom-reytinge-v-oprose-Eho-Moskvy-34900.html

[lordtiberius]

where is Strelkov?

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-15/igor-the-terrible-strelkov-resigns-as-separatist-leader/5672274

[lordtiberius]

Taras Kuzio says the obvious: the West is morally weak.



We see that in the legion of Putin apologists here.

[Shadow]

The more people blame Russia and Putin, the more chance they will get what they want.

[lordtiberius]

The more people blame Russia and Putin, the more chance they will get what they want.

[AkMike]

The only difference between a Russian <GOVERNMENT>and a liar is the spelling.

[Muzh]

The only difference between a Russian and a liar is the spelling.

With all due respect, I know of many Russians that are not necessarily liars. I also know of Ukrainians that will blatantly lie to your face. And Americans too.


This has nothing to do with Russian or Ukrainian or American PEOPLE.

[AkMike]

You're right..   I've amended that post.

[Muzh]

You're right..   I've amended that post.

Kewl!!!

[Faux Pas]

You're right..   I've amended that post.

Passion is a strong emotion. Sometimes its just like thinking with the winky 

[Stirlitz]

Through our contacts there I warned them that all Russia would ever take was Crimea, and the best the others could hope for was federalization. But people were convinced they would manage to break free from a government they dispise and that has given them zero reason to think otherwise.

As for the idea that Russians orchestrated the conflict, it is laughable when you have the information that I have.

I even know where your information comes from. Россия-24, ОРТ, НТВ, LifeNews. Cool. 

[lordtiberius]

I even know where your information comes from. Россия-24, ОРТ, НТВ, LifeNews. Cool. 

What are Ukrainians saying about the Western response?

[Stirlitz]

What are Ukrainians saying about the Western response?

To be frank, Ukrainians say the following.


For once, we agree with Russian Nazis that Gayropeans are pidarassy.


A real war is unfolding on their continent, and they are either concerned or deeply concerned. It alternates. I guess they can have a two-sided card in the UN or wherever which reads CONCERNED and DEEPLY CONCERNED. Whatever happens, just show the card. Next time flip it to save time and that is all you need to do. Whatever happens, be it 49 people killed in a plane shot down by the Russian army in Lugansk or 298 people in Torez. You are concerned. Or you are deeply concerned. Some people may be seriously concerned. It seems like they will need to take some pills because they have been overconcerned recently. Disgusting. I guess when Russian tanks will be rolling in Paris they will be very deeply and seriously concerned. They supply lethal weapons to the Kurds but they fail to supply body armor and helmets to Ukrainians. They impose sanctions on Iran and Korea who are basically harmless but they fail to do something about the aggressive monster that threatens to start a new world war. So, we are very much disappointed with the West. They seem to repeat the mistakes of the Western politians of the 1930’s while Putin repeats Hitler’s steps one for one as if trying to copy all of him. There is no doubt that Russia will eventually be defeated, just like Germany was in 1945, in a couple of years and Putin will either be tried in the Hague or poison himself, but total destruction of Europe may happen before and millions may die. It is outrageous to watch this happen in the 21st century. The West is stupid and irresponsible. Their message to Putin is: do whatever you please, we will be just concerned and may announce some sanctions that are not going to really harm you. You are welcome to kill, seize lands, steal equipment from factories, kidnap people, whatever you like, it is none of our business.
It is especially disgusting to watch Hungarian and Czech politians to support Putin. Can you have such a short memory as to forget 1956 and 1968 respectively? Is the money paid by the FSB more important than the dignity and memory of your fathers killed by the Russian communists? I cannot fathom that.

[lordtiberius]

I completely agree with you.

In less than 2 years, our people will elect an new leader.  Hopefully that new leader will view Ukraine the same way McCain does.  I also hope that new leader will rollback Russian gains in frozen conflicts and fund and arm Russian separatist and anti-Putin opposition groups.  There can be no peace with Putin as President of the Russian federation.

[Drew]

Very well written Stirlitz.

However, keep in mind that there are millions of people around the world, and hundreds here on this forum who very much wish that
.
.
.

USA would stop sticking its nose into other parts of the world.

[Muzh]

Very well written Stirlitz.

However, keep in mind that there are millions of people around the world, and hundreds here on this forum who very much wish that
.
.
.

USA would stop sticking its nose into other parts of the world.

Yep, that's how wars are started.


Read the article I posted earlier.

[AC]

To be frank, Ukrainians say the following.


For once, we agree with Russian Nazis that Gayropeans are pidarassy.


A real war is unfolding on their continent, and they are either concerned or deeply concerned. It alternates. I guess they can have a two-sided card in the UN or wherever which reads CONCERNED and DEEPLY CONCERNED. Whatever happens, just show the card. Next time flip it to save time and that is all you need to do. Whatever happens, be it 49 people killed in a plane shot down by the Russian army in Lugansk or 298 people in Torez. You are concerned. Or you are deeply concerned. Some people may be seriously concerned. It seems like they will need to take some pills because they have been overconcerned recently. Disgusting. I guess when Russian tanks will be rolling in Paris they will be very deeply and seriously concerned. They supply lethal weapons to the Kurds but they fail to supply body armor and helmets to Ukrainians. They impose sanctions on Iran and Korea who are basically harmless but they fail to do something about the aggressive monster that threatens to start a new world war. So, we are very much disappointed with the West. They seem to repeat the mistakes of the Western politians of the 1930’s while Putin repeats Hitler’s steps one for one as if trying to copy all of him. There is no doubt that Russia will eventually be defeated, just like Germany was in 1945, in a couple of years and Putin will either be tried in the Hague or poison himself, but total destruction of Europe may happen before and millions may die. It is outrageous to watch this happen in the 21st century. The West is stupid and irresponsible. Their message to Putin is: do whatever you please, we will be just concerned and may announce some sanctions that are not going to really harm you. You are welcome to kill, seize lands, steal equipment from factories, kidnap people, whatever you like, it is none of our business.
It is especially disgusting to watch Hungarian and Czech politians to support Putin. Can you have such a short memory as to forget 1956 and 1968 respectively? Is the money paid by the FSB more important than the dignity and memory of your fathers killed by the Russian communists? I cannot fathom that.

76 years ago the World tried to appease Hitler by giving him a portion of Czechoslovakia; it did not work, a year later he invaded Poland and WWII started.  There's no doubt that there are some eery similarities from what happened then to what is happening now.  So many people fought and died in that war, and a tenet of International Law afterwards was that countries could no longer snatch portions of other countries and change borders just because some ethnic persons lived there who also lived in the offending country.  Time will tell what's going to happen with this affair, however in the long run it does not look good for Putin nor Russia.  In the short term the usual cast of wealthy and corrupt industrial types are celebrating. 

[lordtiberius]

USA would stop sticking its nose into other parts of the world.

[lordtiberius]

Stirlitz,  what do Ukrainians who have families in Russia say to each other when the war comes up?

[Stirlitz]

Stirlitz,  what do Ukrainians who have families in Russia say to each other when the war comes up?

Many families and friends become enemies. Russia is totally controlled by Putin and he seems to have completely brainwashed the entire population much like it was done in the USSR. It is ludicrous to see that Russians know better what is going on in Ukraine and refer to their television as proof. They tell me something is going on in Odessa and I should watch TV. I tell them that I actually live there and I can simply go outside and see for myself but they know better anyway... They lost everything: logic, common sense, conscience, dignity. All they know is there are fascists in Ukraine, the Russian language is oppressed, the Crimea is Russian, Putin is god, Russia is raising from her knees thanks to Putin... etc... It is absolutely impossible to talk to them: whatever you say, they have the only argument: your government is brainwashing you, you lost your brain, you should watch Russian TV channels. It is funny that what they say applies to themselves actually very well. They are true zombies.


The Russian language is not oppressed in Ukraine. I speak only Russian and I am still alive. But they don’t believe me and tell me to watch Россия-24.


The Crimea is part of Ukraine. Russia confirmed it 3 times: in 1991, 1994 and 1997 in international treaties. Besides, the Crimea has been part of Ukraine since 1954, when the Soviet government realized that having an island attached to the Russian Federation was not convenient, and a Ukrainian peninsula would do better. But a lot of Ukrainian land went to Russia in exchange, in particular southern regions on the border. But they say the Crimea is Russian and refer to the referendum where only a third of the population actually voted.


We have a legitimate government. They say the Ukrainian government is a Junta while in fact it was only the president who fled (of course, to Russia), and the parliament had been elected in 2012, before the events. The real junta is in the Kremlin.


Our army is fighting Russian troops in the East. But they say the Ukrainian troops are... invaders in their own country and the Russian army is not there. It is difficult to answer this outrageous and ridiculous rubbish.


They also claim that it is local militia who are fighting the Ukrainian army with the weapons seized from it while it is the Russian army with their modern heavy arms. If the militia had seized anything they ran out of it months ago!


Many Ukrainians find it very difficult to talk to people like that. So I stopped talking to most of my Russian friends. I even stopped talking to my relatives. That’s the case with so many people.

[Anotherkiwi]

Many families and friends become enemies. Russia is totally controlled by Putin and he seems to have completely brainwashed the entire population much like it was done in the USSR...

...The Russian language is not oppressed in Ukraine. I speak only Russian and I am still alive. But they don’t believe me and tell me to watch Россия-24...

...Many Ukrainians find it very difficult to talk to people like that. So I stopped talking to most of my Russian friends. I even stopped talking to my relatives. That’s the case with so many people.

This is so sad to read.  Perhaps some of the Putin apologists may realise, when reading something like this, just how much harm he has done - not just to international relationships, but to those within families who, like Stirlitz, have members on both sides of the border.

It seems that the only Russians who have any real idea of what's going on (apart from those controlling the Kremlin) are the mothers opening the body bags containing the remains of their children - children who, for the most part at least, never wanted to be fighting in Ukraine in the first place.

[Chelseaboy]

"They are true Zombies".

Yep..that would equally apply to the pro-Russian posters on here...they don't live in Ukraine but they know better than the Ukrainians what is going on there......just switch on RTS.

[Faux Pas]

Many families and friends become enemies. Russia is totally controlled by Putin and he seems to have completely brainwashed the entire population much like it was done in the USSR. It is ludicrous to see that Russians know better what is going on in Ukraine and refer to their television as proof. They tell me something is going on in Odessa and I should watch TV. I tell them that I actually live there and I can simply go outside and see for myself but they know better anyway... They lost everything: logic, common sense, conscience, dignity. All they know is there are fascists in Ukraine, the Russian language is oppressed, the Crimea is Russian, Putin is god, Russia is raising from her knees thanks to Putin... etc... It is absolutely impossible to talk to them: whatever you say, they have the only argument: your government is brainwashing you, you lost your brain, you should watch Russian TV channels. It is funny that what they say applies to themselves actually very well. They are true zombies.


The Russian language is not oppressed in Ukraine. I speak only Russian and I am still alive. But they don’t believe me and tell me to watch Россия-24.


The Crimea is part of Ukraine. Russia confirmed it 3 times: in 1991, 1994 and 1997 in international treaties. Besides, the Crimea has been part of Ukraine since 1954, when the Soviet government realized that having an island attached to the Russian Federation was not convenient, and a Ukrainian peninsula would do better. But a lot of Ukrainian land went to Russia in exchange, in particular southern regions on the border. But they say the Crimea is Russian and refer to the referendum where only a third of the population actually voted.


We have a legitimate government. They say the Ukrainian government is a Junta while in fact it was only the president who fled (of course, to Russia), and the parliament had been elected in 2012, before the events. The real junta is in the Kremlin.


Our army is fighting Russian troops in the East. But they say the Ukrainian troops are... invaders in their own country and the Russian army is not there. It is difficult to answer this outrageous and ridiculous rubbish.


They also claim that it is local militia who are fighting the Ukrainian army with the weapons seized from it while it is the Russian army with their modern heavy arms. If the militia had seized anything they ran out of it months ago!


Many Ukrainians find it very difficult to talk to people like that. So I stopped talking to most of my Russian friends. I even stopped talking to my relatives. That’s the case with so many people.

That is a very profound post Stirlitz. Thanks for making it. Obviously, such zombie behavior on this matter exists everywhere. Unfortunately when most of the folks actually begin to understand the truth it will likely be too late

[BillyB]

Unfortunately when most of the folks actually begin to understand the truth it will likely be too late

Either Ukraine is an independent state and should be left alone or belongs to Russia. Those are the only two truths people know and will discuss what supports their truth.