Ukraine Trip Report

[drsecu]

I covered around 1800KM through Ukraine over 19days.  I read a little on this forum and elsewhere and had one book, but I mostly asked Ukrainians questions.  I went in pretty blind, with only a reservation for the first part of the trip, not knowing where I would go (I was considering other counties as well) I knew 3 words (de kava) and (de tualet).  It was a pretty interesting experience.  I was able to experience a lot of Ukraine, the capital (Kyiv), the cultural capital (Lviv) a small city of 15k with a family, and staying in a remote countryside without water in the home, a fairly complete experience.

I'll update the thread as I have time.  I'm not sure how to organize things.

[drsecu]

Meeting Girls.

Install Skype, Viber, and whatsapp first.  That is how everyone communicates.  Best to already have an account and pictures.  Also most girls that are looking foreign already have Facebook accounts, so I'd take time to reorganize yours to build your story.

Fdating:  I think this is the best resource.  Its the place with the most girls, the mostly likely to be really looking for a relationship, and its free.   I'd suggest moving the conversation to skype, viber, whatsapp early just because its easier.  Also gives you contact information if you are visiting and need to reconnect.  It doesn't appear many play the field, typically on friends lists they will either have zero other foreign friends, or maybe one guy they may have talked to in the past.

Language exchange sites:  Not a dating website but might as well be,  I got a around a 80% success rate in conversation, and your not really competing with anyone else for attention.  They are learning english for a reason. 

Pay sites.  None of these girls are going to pay money to join a dating website when there is a free one.  Maybe they would do it for a job.  There are adds on boards offering girls money for this, don't be stupid.

Clubs.  Night life is pretty crappy in Ukraine, even in the center of Kyiv you you will find places closing at 10pm.  Kyiv it is a bit better than elsewhere though.  Many-to-most will be semi-pro.  They are looking for some level of compensation.  If this is what you want and you take this approach it is better to offer 800-2000 hryvnia as a gift or for private ride home.  Try club Caribbean if your going this route as it has one of the better reps.

Facebook:  If you add friend/message any girl that leaves an english review on a club website you will get a high response rate back, and they will probably be semi-pros.  It will be easy to tell, because  you will see where they vacation at.  The hardest read is Turkey, every Ukrainian girl hates Turkish men.  Turkey is a fairly popular vacation spot for them though because it is still cheap and generally all inclusive.  If the girl doesn't have a good job and she is has pictures at a nice place in Turkey, Jordan, UAE, etc she is a semi-pro or pro.  You will have a good (but less) response rate taking the same approach on facebook just more random.

Ukrainian girls are the hottest.... etc... .  I went from rural to large areas in Ukraine and honestly didn't think the girls were all that hot in general.   Better than North USA for sure, but not the South.  I'm admitted arrogant and just spoiled based on past success, but I went in thinking there would be a supermodel on every street corner to realizing there is probably only 1 in a 100 that even qualify as hot.  If your looking for 5-7s then there may be a slightly higher percentage in Ukraine than typical USA city, mostly just do a higher percentage of thinner girls. 

I met three Americans with girls on the tours, and honestly I thought they would have been able to find hotter girls in the USA. 

Speaking of being American, Ukrainians appear to like us a lot.  I was allowed to take pictures in churches that did now allow pictures (which makes you feel awkward as the same person tells the others  they are not allowed to), and a museum director literally opened the place for for me after hours, and let me take pictures holding the guns, uniforms out of the cases and hold them for pictures.

[GQBlues]

....Ukrainian girls are the hottest.... etc... .  I went from rural to large areas in Ukraine and honestly didn't think the girls were all that hot in general.   Better than North USA for sure, but not the South.  I'm admitted arrogant and just spoiled based on past success, but I went in thinking there would be a supermodel on every street corner to realizing there is probably only 1 in a 100 that even qualify as hot....

The first honest assessment I've read in a very long time! Your statement validates the extent of 'your social' experience you cited on the board more than anything. Good on you...

..I met three Americans with girls on the tours, and honestly I thought they would have been able to find hotter girls in the USA.,,

They can't. The reason would be fairly obvious. 

[rw_recruiter]

Clubs.  Night life is pretty crappy in Ukraine, even in the center of Kyiv you you will find places closing at 10pm.  Kyiv it is a bit better than elsewhere though. 

Speaking of being American, Ukrainians appear to like us a lot.  I was allowed to take pictures in churches that did now allow pictures (which makes you feel awkward as the same person tells the others  they are not allowed to), and a museum director literally opened the place for for me after hours, and let me take pictures holding the guns, uniforms out of the cases and hold them for pictures.

The nightclubs in Odessa are pretty good actually. And I am comparing them to Miami and NYC. They run all night until the sun comes up.

Agreed on liking Americans, I was a hit everywhere I went. Everyone wanted to meet me and most peoiple were very friendly. The kids even told the teachers they had an American in town visiting they were so excited.

[wallm]

Ukrainian girls are the hottest.... etc... .  I went from rural to large areas in Ukraine and honestly didn't think the girls were all that hot in general.   Better than North USA for sure, but not the South.  I'm admitted arrogant and just spoiled based on past success, but I went in thinking there would be a supermodel on every street corner to realizing there is probably only 1 in a 100 that even qualify as hot.  If your looking for 5-7s then there may be a slightly higher percentage in Ukraine than typical USA city, mostly just do a higher percentage of thinner girls. 

Hey, watch it. Look out for the lapdogs for Ukraine come at you. I felt the same way. I dated a couple of stunningly beautiful women in Kiev but the rest were average. The thought that Ukraine is teeming with gorgeous women everywhere is a fantasy. Just be realistic. Moreover, it is not just looks that should matter. In the long run character is just as important if not more.

[ML]

In the long run character is just as important if not more.

Character is much, much more important than looks . . . provided looks are minimally acceptable.

[Jumper]

I'd agree with most of it.

On clubs I wouldn't.
I'm not a club person, rather watch paint dry in general,but to say night life is dull there is odd.
Plenty of clubs open basically all night,most don't even start happening until quite late.

As far as beautiful women, I never noticed any real increased numbers in kiev.
Some other cities there, or in the world,yes.
(Vienna as example)
I think most regions have a few places that seem to, including areas in Ukraine. Kiev, nope.

[rw_recruiter]

The lack of model types in Ukraine strikes me as odd also. I saw them everywhere I looked while here for 3 weeks. And I am picky as hell. Maybe like Jumper says, depends on the city?

[msmob]

Sorry - don't take this wrong - but I spend half my time in Russia - as opposed to Ukraine - but cannot agree on many points

Meeting Girls.

Install Skype, Viber, and whatsapp first.  That is how everyone communicates.  Best to already have an account and pictures.  Also most girls that are looking foreign already have Facebook accounts, so I'd take time to reorganize yours to build your story.

Fdating:  I think this is the best resource.  Its the place with the most girls, the mostly likely to be really looking for a relationship, and its free.   I'd suggest moving the conversation to skype, viber, whatsapp early just because its easier.  Also gives you contact information if you are visiting and need to reconnect.  It doesn't appear many play the field, typically on friends lists they will either have zero other foreign friends, or maybe one guy they may have talked to in the past.

Agreed - from 3+ years ago .. consider dmnotify.com, too - not free - but no 'expensive' - if you are serious in your search - DEFO not mamba.ru..

Language exchange sites:  Not a dating website but might as well be,  I got a around a 80% success rate in conversation, and your not really competing with anyone else for attention.  They are learning english for a reason. 

I'm a member of a face to face English club in Russia and STRONGLY disagree - most guys join to chase tail - THEY want to learn English ))

Pay sites.  None of these girls are going to pay money to join a dating website when there is a free one.  Maybe they would do it for a job.  There are adds on boards offering girls money for this, don't be stupid.

Not sure of sites where the ladies must pay - where foreign guys are the target ... May be I'm out of it )?

Clubs.  Night life is pretty crappy in Ukraine, even in the center of Kyiv you you will find places closing at 10pm.  Kyiv it is a bit better than elsewhere though.  Many-to-most will be semi-pro.  They are looking for some level of compensation.  If this is what you want and you take this approach it is better to offer 800-2000 hryvnia as a gift or for private ride home.  Try club Caribbean if your going this route as it has one of the better reps.

Certainly NOT my experience of a resort city in Russia .. They are open FROM 22:00!

Facebook:  If you add friend/message any girl that leaves an english review on a club website you will get a high response rate back, and they will probably be semi-pros.  It will be easy to tell, because  you will see where they vacation at.  The hardest read is Turkey, every Ukrainian girl hates Turkish men.  Turkey is a fairly popular vacation spot for them though because it is still cheap and generally all inclusive.  If the girl doesn't have a good job and she is has pictures at a nice place in Turkey, Jordan, UAE, etc she is a semi-pro or pro.  You will have a good (but less) response rate taking the same approach on facebook just more random.

OH NO - another guy using social media sites for dating (( .. You may figure out why FSU women dislike Turkish guys, now .. they think like you do ..((  To anyone reading this who has a partner from the FSU - am I the only guy who sees that - unless you make the account friends only - it's a 'pls be my friend' - 5 times a day ....?))  Next you'll be telling us to use vk.com or odnoklassniki.ru ((

Also: Sorry - but I know plenty of single UA / RU lasses that holiday in Turkey ... they are certainly NOT 'pros'  - have job and they work / save like CRAZY to get a break - esp. when the school kids go back

Ukrainian girls are the hottest.... etc... .  I went from rural to large areas in Ukraine and honestly didn't think the girls were all that hot in general.   Better than North USA for sure, but not the South.  I'm admitted arrogant and just spoiled based on past success, but I went in thinking there would be a supermodel on every street corner to realizing there is probably only 1 in a 100 that even qualify as hot.  If your looking for 5-7s then there may be a slightly higher percentage in Ukraine than typical USA city, mostly just do a higher percentage of thinner girls. 

This is highly subjective

1/ YES - they tend to be slimmer
2/ If you go to the beach resorts around the Black Sea - you might think differently

SOME women from Belarus, Ukraine and Russia are hot - I believe it is a matter of preference - I think the proportion is higher

I met three Americans with girls on the tours, and honestly I thought they would have been able to find hotter girls in the USA. 

On tours ? Hmm - must of us would not recommend a tour ...

Speaking of being American, Ukrainians appear to like us a lot.  I was allowed to take pictures in churches that did now allow pictures (which makes you feel awkward as the same person tells the others  they are not allowed to), and a museum director literally opened the place for for me after hours, and let me take pictures holding the guns, uniforms out of the cases and hold them for pictures.

Not being American - I can't comment - but I've not detected any animosity in either Belarus, Ukraine or Russia - being a westerner - other than two drunken Armenian idiots - who locals told to STFU when they though I was American ...

[BillyB]

I like the looks of Slavic woman more than Western European women. FSU women also tend to stay slimmer and dress more feminine compared to their Western sisters.


When looking at profiles at marriage agencies, the beautiful girls are on the front pages and all girls are photoshopped and it seems there's a higher percentage of beautiful women there.

[Anotherkiwi]

Ukrainian girls are the hottest.... etc... .  I went from rural to large areas in Ukraine and honestly didn't think the girls were all that hot in general.   Better than North USA for sure, but not the South.  I'm admitted arrogant and just spoiled based on past success, but I went in thinking there would be a supermodel on every street corner to realizing there is probably only 1 in a 100 that even qualify as hot.  If your looking for 5-7s then there may be a slightly higher percentage in Ukraine than typical USA city, mostly just do a higher percentage of thinner girls.

I wasn't sure what to expect when I landed in Moscow the first time, but by the end of the first few days my eyes were pretty much bugging out of my head.    Of course I expected to see plenty of pretty girls (and women), but I was in ocular overload by the time I flew to St Petersburg.

I've posted before that I pretty much counted at least one "10" on EVERY Metro journey, whether in my carriage or just passing on a platform.  Walking around the central city, especially near Revolution Square and across to the Bolshoi, was another great area.  If 10 was too high for comfort, just look around a bit longer, and there were HEAPS of 8s and 9s as well.    Although not as many (obviously, since it's a smaller city), St Petersburg had its fair share of absolute stunners as well.  By the end of that trip, I had come to the conclusion that it didn't really matter where I went, I would see utterly gorgeous women - far more (as a percentage) than I do here.

My second trip included Ukraine, with time spent in both Kyiv and Odesa.  On the flight from Moscow, my (Ukrainian) seatmate told me that the girls in Ukraine were much prettier than in Russia - I think he was slightly biased!  And while I DID see lots of stunning women on that part of my trip as well, I still think that Moscow ranked number one.

Although I'm being slightly long-winded here, what I'm trying to say is that you will see whatever you're looking for.  If you're looking for 10s, you'll see them.  If you're looking for 7s, you'll see them too.  What is most important, as has already been posted above, is that, to you, they are a 10 on the INSIDE - whatever they may look like on the outside.

[Nightwish]

Quite amusing to see how you try and measure something so subjective as "hotness"
What's hot for you isn't necessarily hot for me.

I live in Sweden, we have tall, big breasted, blond, blue eyed girls in every corner, I don't find that hot at all..

My woman is quite short, 5"3, very long straight black hair, ice-blue eyes and with a figure to die for.. thanks to Zumba and poledancing *love it* That is HOT .. but again, for me.
And when I travelled around Ukraine I saw women like this everywhere and I loved it, bcs that is my type of woman I have to admit.

[drsecu]

Kyiv is Kyiv not Kiev.  In messaging when I spelled it Kyiv the girls would often comment how impressed they were.  Almost everyone I spoke too came off as extremely patriotic.  In messages beforehand and in people I met.

[drsecu]

The lack of model types in Ukraine strikes me as odd also. I saw them everywhere I looked while here for 3 weeks. And I am picky as hell. Maybe like Jumper says, depends on the city?

I live in a college town, and definitely here in my USA town the girls are hotter.  Also the college students are here vs the college students I saw on campuses in Lviv.  There seems to be more 30+ that are hot +without baggage there, which is what I wanted.  It is not uncommon to have a 30-35yr old that has really never had a serious boyfriend before.  I dated a Polish gymnast here before, and I am into the culture and personality, so there was more to it than me. 

[drsecu]

On tours ? Hmm - must of us would not recommend a tour ...

Well that's weird.  You can only to Chernobyl by tour and it is very interesting.  Also you can tour castles and they drive you around for 9 hours in a nice bus for about $10.  Underground parts of Lviv are also only available by tour and very cheap also.  I would say take the tours, lots of fun.  Also you might be about to enjoy some english conversation, and got to see many other cities this way.

[msmob]

Well that's weird.  You can only to Chernobyl by tour and it is very interesting.  Also you can tour castles and they drive you around for 9 hours in a nice bus for about $10.  Underground parts of Lviv are also only available by tour and very cheap also.  I would say take the tours, lots of fun.  Also you might be about to enjoy some english conversation, and got to see many other cities this way.

Haha, *I* thought you meant tours to meet ladies ))

Kyiv is Kyiv not Kiev.  In messaging when I spelled it Kyiv the girls would often comment how impressed they were.  Almost everyone I spoke too came off as extremely patriotic.  In messages beforehand and in people I met.

Try explaining this some folks and they think you are 'mad' ... 

Kiev is the transliteration from RUSSIAN to English and now Ukraine has pushed it's own language - it encourages us to spell it in the  Ukrainian  transliterated format ... Kyiv.

Those preferring retaining closer ties with Moscow will still spell it Kiev ...

There seems to be more 30+ that are hot +without baggage there, which is what I wanted.  It is not uncommon to have a 30-35yr old that has really never had a serious boyfriend before.  I dated a Polish gymnast here before, and I am into the culture and personality, so there was more to it than me. 

I started looking when 35+ was my range - I was 42...  RAre would be a hot lass that hadn't had a serious relationship..

My missus' had never married - but she had lived with a guy for six years ..

[drsecu]

When booking a tour of Chernobyl the price on every website is $88-89 for the base tour.  If you go to the .ua version the price is $38.

In train stations pay attention to the hours posted for breaks.   You may be in line for 20 minutes and we you go window the lady will tell you she will be back in a hour.  The website is the best way to buy the train tickets because the stations are a mess, but you have to print them, and they are only sold 30 days in advance.  Avoid the bathroom at Kyiv station, you stand a squat in open and you have to pay.  The McDonald's Across the street (they busiest in the world) has nice bathrooms.  The Kyiv to Lviv train is $8 in budget (sells out quick), and $12 for the nice or overnight.  I'd do the overnight, sleeping is comfortable and save on hotel apartment.  Lviv is must see, I will get to that later.

The locals uses Ukrainian trader sites (ukrgo translates the best) but I'd recommend AirBnb.  The nicer places are there but cost more.  They have the same $13 a night budget places as the other sites as well.  It's easier to use and has more of the really nice $25-35 a night units.

[drsecu]

Haha, *I* thought you meant tours to meet ladies ))

Try explaining this some folks and they think you are 'mad' ... 

Kiev is the transliteration from RUSSIAN to English and now Ukraine has pushed it's own language - it encourages us to spell it in the  Ukrainian  transliterated format ... Kyiv.

Those preferring retaining closer ties with Moscow will still spell it Kiev ...

I started looking when 35+ was my range - I was 42...  RAre would be a hot lass that hadn't had a serious relationship..

My missus' had never married - but she had lived with a guy for six years ..

I was let to believe that Kyiv was split 50/50 language and (patriotic vs preferring closer ties) but in all the girls I talked to ended up being on the patriotic side.  The ones that spoke mostly Russian have switched to speaking Ukrainian around friends.  Referring to Kyiv as Kyiv not Kiev seemed to earn me bonus points.

I'm 40 with 3 kids (they live with me 50/50) and I tried several girls with kids or had been married but never went anywhere.  Pretty much everyone had never been to serious before.  For example I went a 30 something's home I was the first boy ever brought there.  I realize this will vary but but everyone have met randomly has been married less, less kids, less likely to have been serious.  I'm sure there are plenty of both.  I didn't target a group though.

[drsecu]

Exchange Rates where highest inside the Central Train station, and on the grounds outside.  Just across the street where the buses are where the best rates in Ukraine I saw.  On the main street in Kiev also, the further away from the main street the worse the rates were. 

I was told ahead that banks at the best rates, to just change at banks.  This was not the case, although the difference was small.

Also interestingly, your money needs to be perfect.  I had and exchange place not take some American dollars because of imperfections.  I tiny tear, and a red stain on the end of on.  These were crisp $20s out of a ATM.  Another place took them.  I was told by a girl (she worked for a Bank in Kyiv before) that the bank may charge a small fee because of the flaws, but hryvnia with 80% intact would be taken.

[BillyB]

Exchange Rates where highest inside the Central Train station, and on the grounds outside.  Just across the street where the buses are where the best rates in Ukraine I saw.  On the main street in Kiev also, the further away from the main street the worse the rates were. 

I was told ahead that banks at the best rates, to just change at banks.  This was not the case, although the difference was small.

Also interestingly, your money needs to be perfect.  I had and exchange place not take some American dollars because of imperfections.  I tiny tear, and a red stain on the end of on.  These were crisp $20s out of a ATM.  Another place took them.  I was told by a girl (she worked for a Bank in Kyiv before) that the bank may charge a small fee because of the flaws, but hryvnia with 80% intact would be taken.

Money that has markings, faded, washed, wrinkled, ripped, off center, and even old most likely will be rejected. I inspect the bills my bank gives me before going to the FSU.

[Jumper]

Kyiv is Kyiv not Kiev.  In messaging when I spelled it Kyiv the girls would often comment how impressed they were.  Almost everyone I spoke too came off as extremely patriotic.  In messages beforehand and in people I met.

It's simply a matter of preference, I find it odds it gets debated here often, when most Ukrainians honestly  don't care how *we*  say it or spell it on some random forum.lol
I've been going there off and on  for 20 years.
To Vienna as well,but when mentioned , we don't debate that is not how an Austrian spells it, or pronounces it. 

My wife, certainly Ukrainian, spells it both ways randomly as well.

Ah well no big deal.

On relative attractiveness :
I live in a university town also, yeap lots of attractive women of all ages in my town. Nearby is also chicago,with untold amount of truly attractive women.
Funny though most often when one is truly stunning there, they are polish, Russian,Ukrainian ,lithuanian  etc. That plays out in many modeling agencies,as well.
I lived in Brazil a couple of years, and several other countries, some certainly had an increase in what the media or most men find attractive.
  I've been to most every city of any size in Ukraine , frim those kyiv would be last place if those in my humble opinion.
Any number of smaller  lesser known  eastern or central European cities would rank higher ,but it's completely subjective.

Money has needed to be near perfect to be exchanged easily for decades,but typically you can find someone to take one less than mint.

The best exchange rate is often a cc or debit card transaction ,but this can depend on any  international charges from your specific  bank so needs looked into before assuming.

Ukrainian people and families are typically welcoming and great hosts.You're a guest afterall.

But living there any lenght of time you'd notice a more general rudeness in the culture (to each other ) and negative vibe than people get from a first visit.

[drsecu]

On nightlife it was not just a reference to clubs.  However on the clubs they are not as suitable to mingling and there really aren't that many proportionally.  My small USA city probably has 10x more per people, also I can go bowling in early hours of AM, or go to a grocery store 24/7.  I had to make a big effort to do things before they closed, I don't recall every having to leave so many places because they were closing.  Often when they were full of customers.

[drsecu]

Most of the action in Kyiv is on Khreschatyk and Maidan Nezalezhnosti (main road and city center).  The street was closed every weekend for festivals, and some nights for street parties.  I'd defiantly recommend staying here at a higher cost, will save lots of travel time, a nice appartment is about $30/night, worth it.   

Lviv is the same, with Rynok Square, at a similar price.

[drsecu]

Prices, USD

A great apartment at the city centers will be ~$30, others are ~$13, although a room or hostel would be less.

Trams, buses, and Subway are $.15.  The overnight or nicer Trains to Lviv (6 hours) are about $12.  I took a Bus several times about 60KM and it was $3.07

American brands of candy, etc is about the same cost as here.  Because of everyone having a side hustle the street prices for things is about the same as a retail store pricing.  In the USA we buy a 2L Coke for $.99, but a 12oz bottle from a street vendor may be $3.  Here the stores have smaller 1-1.5L Cokes for about $.85, but you can buy a bottle from a street vendor for  $.31-.62.  The new sugar free coke is easier to find in remote areas of Ukraine than it is in the USA.

Things made in Ukraine are very cheap.  A huge bag of Grapes will be about $1 (what would be $5-8 here), but a Grapefruit may be $1 in both Ukraine and USA.  A 3ft piece of french bread was $.19.  I cooked an american meal for a host, and bought $8 worth of shrimp (that I had to clean and peel), It resulted in probably $2 worth of shrimp meat I could buy here.  Meats, especially sausages are real cheap.  Ukraine food is pretty rough, having Pepperoni and Salami around for a snack is really good.  Its about 75% cheaper there.  The Chicken in stores often keep loose in bins that were poorly refrigerated and the fish selection is pretty gross.  If you go into many markets it will start to make since why McDonald's is so popular.

T-Shirts are $5-6, the tourist ones in Lviv and Kyiv.  Coffee Mugs $2-4.

Inflation is around 17%.  A bank note will yield you around 12%, so the people would be better exchanging into US Dollars to hold any savings.  To borrow money you typically pay 30-35%.  The adds you see in the subway for 5% loans do not include fees.

I read a vast contrast in apartment pricing ahead of time.  There are many nice new appartent complexes going up now.  They are priced at $52-63 per square foot in Kyiv.  A newish or remodeled appartment in Kyiv district but not Kyiv center is much cheaper, I saw one for $10,000 for example.  The appartments you see that a typical local may live in are cheaper, in the $15-30k range, I met several people that stayed in small appartments or shared larger ones with roommates and there rents were around $125-160 monthly. What they call the left bank, or the area to the east across the river there are massive apartment complexes everywhere and basic businesses to support the population.  I was told commuting from here is a nightmare. 

[drsecu]

Try the Roshen "Bubble" chocolate bars.  Around $.60.  When my supply runs out (I brougtt back around 50), I will truely be sad.

Zip lock bags do not exist in Ukraine from what I can tell.  If you like these for packing bring them with you.