Returning to Russia after 17+ years.

[Jumper]

Strider, 
The kiev rus dynasty started when and how?

Ukrainian identity is founded quite well,  despite all the history of war and changes there thru the ages.

Culturally as a general population  there is very little difference between a UW or rw.

You'd found some disparity in a village girl from Western ukraine to a moscovitchka,  but not much if comparing apples to apples.
Provincial city or larger to same, or village to village.

As far as willingness to contemplate  relocation, my opinion is it is very individual and likely based on mostly lack of stability and dim future prospects for self and children.


With the unrest in ukraine, I'd say as a generality they might be more inclined as the future is less certain and the economy as well.

That said it woukd still be so specific to any given individuals circumstances that no generality can be worth much.

[Strider]

Your "theories" of history are absolutely historically inaccurate.

Take it up with Kate Brown.  She is a history professor, and the author of A Biography of No Place: From Ethnic Borderland to Soviet Heartland (Harvard 2004).  That won the American Historical Association’s George Louis Beer Prize for the Best Book in International European History.  She does explain how people on the Russian side in what is now Western Ukraine never thought of themselves as "Ukrainian" before WWI, because they hadn't thought they lived in Ukraine, which was further to the East on the steppe.  Everything she wrote was well documented in the archives and pre-WWI Russian historians.  Of course, its not the history you want to believe.

Strider, FSW can sometimes feel like you're using an escort service I find, not that I have ever used one but it's what it kind of feels like sometime. Basically you date girl & pay for this, that & the other. If there's no chemistry on meeting then it can very much end up a 'reciprocal arrangement' by default of sharing time with one another unless you chose to give girl the heave ho. Personally though I no longer see the girl wanting to stay in her home country as a problem. If she's too eager to go to your home country it may not be for you but for herself with you acting as a mule for her to do so. Little mileage in a relationship if that is the case as once you've served your part you'll be kicked to the curb without thought nor care.

Well they don't try to get you locked up for ridiculous complaints like in the West.  If you get tired of paying for things in a relationship without any chemistry, then just say good-bye.  Otherwise, I hope you got your money's worth. 

[Strider]

Strider, 
The kiev rus dynasty started when and how?

A long, long, long time before Western Ruthenians considered that they to lived in the ukraine.

Culturally as a general population  there is very little difference between a UW or rw.
You'd found some disparity in a village girl from Western ukraine to a moscovitchka,  but not much if comparing apples to apples.
Provincial city or larger to same, or village to village.

Catholics in Western Ukraine appear to be more conservative than the Orthodox in the East, where they are more culturally Russian.  Perhaps it's because they have the Polish dupa?

As far as willingness to contemplate  relocation, my opinion is it is very individual and likely based on mostly lack of stability and dim future prospects for self and children.

Yes, having a child opens their eyes to greener pastures to the West for the child.  It seems that few consider that it would be better to move to the West before having children.

With the unrest in ukraine, I'd say as a generality they might be more inclined as the future is less certain and the

That said it woukd still be so specific to any given individuals circumstances that no generality can be worth much.

There is always unrest in Ukraine.  Things don't really change in that regard.  Still, few really want to leave permanently. 

[Jumper]

Strider, FSW can sometimes feel like you're using an escort service I find, not that I have ever used one but it's what it kind of feels like sometime. Basically you date girl & pay for this, that & the other. If there's no chemistry on meeting then it can very much end up a 'reciprocal arrangement' by default of sharing time with one another unless you chose to give girl the heave ho. Personally though I no longer see the girl wanting to stay in her home country as a problem. If she's too eager to go to your home country it may not be for you but for herself with you acting as a mule for her to do so. Little mileage in a relationship if that is the case as once you've served your part you'll be kicked to the curb without thought nor care.

Lol , TC come on now! 


You really need to get out just dating normally man.

Yes there are *some* women open to pro dating, or an *arrangement * with a powerful local business man
,or even prostitution.
That's true in the UK as well don't you rekon?
In a fine western country.


But those women don't define the general population of either country. Just like MOB misfits like *us*, don't define western men's populations.

You seem to have chased a couple of young model types mostly from agency backgrounds and you'll find more than average concentration of a tad mercenary.
Why on earth would you expect anything different?

If you chased the young women enamored of men with fame or wealth at very high end clubs in uk, you might find a tad higher concentration of mercenary girls than is representative of uk lasses as well.


If you somehow met ten , 30 something average RW from normal backgrounds, none of what you think ,post,or have experienced would fit. zero, nothing.
Dating would certainly not feel like using an escort service. Dear Lord. Lol

Your experiences, are poor  because of how you are thinking and how you are  looking , and who you decided to meet from a criteria that assures a poor outcome most of the time.

You already know that most hot local young 20 -25 yo women here,there,or anywhere,  are into , mostly themselves. There isn't enough life experience or maturity to be otherwise yet (generality,yes exceptions exist  )

Yet that's whom you seemingly  choose to meet right?


Again I'm throwing pebbles not stones from my glass house . I met my wife when she was 28.
I thought I had a good idea of her values and what was important to her, but you just don't really know until you meet and spend time together.
  Turns out I was right, but you know what?
I could have been way off,about her, or she could have found me too goofy, or whatever lol
In any case it wouldn't have made her a bad person, or me one either, we just wouldn't have been compatible.
I knew the odds were quite up there that I had read her  wrong. But that's on ME, not her.
It's on you to sort out who you meet, and after meeting who you keep dating.
I've always felt any person , is only treated as poorly as they allow themselves to be.

[Boethius]

Take it up with Kate Brown.  She is a history professor, and the author of A Biography of No Place: From Ethnic Borderland to Soviet Heartland (Harvard 2004).  That won the American Historical Association’s George Louis Beer Prize for the Best Book in International European History.  She does explain how people on the Russian side in what is now Western Ukraine never thought of themselves as "Ukrainian" before WWI, because they hadn't thought they lived in Ukraine, which was further to the East on the steppe.  Everything she wrote was well documented in the archives and pre-WWI Russian historians.  Of course, its not the history you want to believe.

Kate Brown is not posting here.  However, other historians, such as John-Paul Himka (an expert on 19th century Galicia) would disagree with that conclusion.

Has Kate Brown never heard of the Ruska Triytsia?  The narodovtsi?  Franko? Kotsiubynsky?  Hnatiuk?  Holovatsky?  Pavlyk?  Really, the notion you present is absurd.

[Boethius]

A long, long, long time before Western Ruthenians considered that they to lived in the ukraine.

Where do you think the Ruthenians came from?  Do you believe they fell from heaven?

Catholics in Western Ukraine appear to be more conservative than the Orthodox in the East, where they are more culturally Russian.  Perhaps it's because they have the Polish dupa?

They're not more conservative, but they are more sexually repressed.  However, you will find few real "Orthodox" or "Catholics" in either country, as they were rather successfully eliminated by the former Bolshevik regime.

[Strider]

Kate Brown is not posting here.  However, other historians, such as John-Paul Himka (an expert on 19th century Galicia) would disagree with that conclusion.

Are you sure about that?  Since Brown was writing mostly about the Russian side of the WWI border, Himka's work on Hapsburg Galicia is largely irrelevant except to prove that the expansion of the ukraine Westward to Galicia was a Hapsburg invention to divide and conquer the local population.

Has Kate Brown never heard of the Ruska Triytsia?  The narodovtsi?  Franko? Kotsiubynsky?  Hnatiuk?  Holovatsky?  Pavlyk?  Really, the notion you present is absurd.

You will need to ask her, but the history that she presented matches what I know from my own family, i.e., people who intermarried, spoke a mixed dialect of language (the tutajesz), and didn't fit into the categories that outsiders, (including modern Ukrainian nationalists and their academic proponents) had for them.  I am sure that she heard of Vasyl Mudry, his  Ukrainian National Democratic Alliance party, his Dilo newspaper, and how he and many of his supporters remained loyal to Poland.  As historians like Snyder have noted, they found Poland to have been superior to what followed under Soviet occupation, and they were nostalgic about it.

Where do you think the Ruthenians came from?  Do you believe they fell from heaven?

Ruthenians came from Ruthenia, which was west of the ukraine.

They're not more conservative, but they are more sexually repressed.  However, you will find few real "Orthodox" or "Catholics" in either country, as they were rather successfully eliminated by the former Bolshevik regime.

Funny, but there are more churches in both countries now than before the fall of the Soviet Union.  Generally, people who are more conservative are less sexually active, especially if that abstention is due to religion, or a more religious culture.

[msmob]

Funny, but there are more churches in both countries now than before the fall of the Soviet Union.  Generally, people who are more conservative are less sexually active, especially if that abstention is due to religion, or a more religious culture.

As religion was frowned upon - it is a natural progression that religion - allowed freedom - would recover...   

Your second sentence - I think that is a very sweeping statement - hard to prove either way

[ML]

Strider wrote:  Generally, people who are more conservative are less sexually active, especially if that abstention is due to religion, or a more religious culture.

Your second sentence - I think that is a very sweeping statement - hard to prove either way

I think Strider is correct here, when conservative is used in this  sense and not in the political sense.

Generally religious women feel the pressure to be less active sexually, especially outside of marriage.  After all, this is part of most religious dogma.

I encountered a few very religious FSUW and they all emphatically relayed to me in pre-meeting messages that they would not be partaking in sex during our meetings.  I believed them and did not pursue that aspect, even as I met with them to test out compatibility in other regards.  Nothing came of these meetings as they just were not affectionate enough for me, even aside from no sex.  One in particular would be quite a catch otherwise; she has since married, had a child, and still corresponds with me a couple of times a year at Christmas, etc.

I remember when I was a teenager back in medium town midwest, there was a Catholic high school and the word was that those gals were the most promiscuous around.  But it could have just been an urban legend and I knew no one with reliable stories about such.

[msmob]

Generally religious women feel the pressure to be less active sexually, especially outside of marriage.  After all, this is part of most religious dogma.

'Sex' as in penetrative sex ? ...

I remember when I was a teenager back in medium town midwest, there was a Catholic high school and the word was that those gals were the most promiscuous around.  But it could have just been an urban legend and I knew no one with reliable stories about such.

A bit like the Vicar's daughter ( in the UK we had Fiona Richmond) I still think it was a generalised statement - can't prove it ..

http://www.fionarichmond.co.uk/about/

 

[BillyB]

 A few guys at work say conservative religious girls enjoy sex the most based off their experiences. Religious women tend to have more kids and are more motivated to keep their man happy. Liberal women are less interested in keeping their man happy. A good number feel they don't even need a man in their life.

[GQBlues]

...Funny, but there are more churches in both countries now than before the fall of the Soviet Union.  Generally, people who are more conservative are less sexually active, especially if that abstention is due to religion, or a more religious culture.

I submit Mormons and Muslims contend to the contrary.

[ML]

I submit Mormons and Muslims contend to the contrary.

I doubt that above average number of children equates with above average amount of sex.

Rather, it just indicates lack of birth control and mostly by design.

[Strider]

I think Strider is correct here, when conservative is used in this  sense and not in the political sense.

Generally religious women feel the pressure to be less active sexually, especially outside of marriage.  After all, this is part of most religious dogma.

Right, the concept is that the human sex drive should be channeled into marriage.

I encountered a few very religious FSUW and they all emphatically relayed to me in pre-meeting messages that they would not be partaking in sex during our meetings.  I believed them and did not pursue that aspect, even as I met with them to test out compatibility in other regards.  Nothing came of these meetings as they just were not affectionate enough for me, even aside from no sex.  One in particular would be quite a catch otherwise; she has since married, had a child, and still corresponds with me a couple of times a year at Christmas, etc.
...

Well some girls do that to make guys think they are religious or have high standards.  That might be true, but it also works as a great way to play a guy without being affectionate.  I have heard that there is an old Orthodox thing that a woman shouldn't even kiss a man she isn't marrying.  Something like finding the one person she is destined for.  For international dating, it's a non-starter.

I submit Mormons and Muslims contend to the contrary.

Mormons and Muslims are abstaining from sex?  Who knew?