How to Visit Many without lying?

[krimster2]

look bro, you don’t mind me callin you that do ya, if so speak up...

I was sincerely offering you my help
for two reasons

1. you’re an Army man, I’m an Army man
2. you’re a father of two kids, I’m a father of two kids

although you haven’t talked about it
I assume you have at least partial custody of your kids
and that deep down you know your kids would benefit if you had a woman’s help
ok...

I have more SUCCESSFUL experience at doing what you’re planning on
in the place you’re planning on doing it in
then the rest of this board put together
and that’s a 100% fact
anyone who says otherwise is bullshitting you, ok
yeah...yeah...
my detractors will tell you my info is out of date
but, not true, and I am on skype every week with my friend and business partner in Kyiv
I feel it’s pulse like my own

when I was a boy, my English grandfather would call a person whose gross inexperience became particularly obvious a “lord help us”

I could critique what you just wrote, dissect it layer by layer, and list the many mistakes therein
but don’t worry, I wont....

just know that after I read it, my palm hit my forehead
and I loudly exclaimed
“lord help us”

OK?

I know you think I’ve been too harsh on you
as I said, I’m not here to stroke your ego
just give you the facts and tell you the truth
and don’t care if that upsets you (it should actually)

now the beard and I have a problem!
by American standards it couldn’t be any better
by Ukrainian standards it’s awful

I think the beard has picked up on the fact that I don’t like it
so it’s telling you NOT to listen to me
but newsflash, it’s just trying to protect itself
it doesn’t REALLY care about you or your kids
don’t trust what it’s telling you

but hey that’s up to you bro

[2tallbill]

Some people can talk endlessly for hours. I'm not one of those people. On some subjects I can talk a fair while but people who can talk endlessly for hours has always made me curious about how they manage it. It just seems like a strange phenomena to my mind.

People romantically interested in each other can find important things to talk about especially
early on. If you want an empty headed arm trophy who won't spend any of your money then
why would you need to talk to a girl.

If you want to find a woman to share your life with then there is a lot to talk about when you
find a good prospect, you have a ton to talk about. Are you thinking of procreating? There are
a thousand subjects of conversation if the answer is no and ten thousand if the answer is yes.

Being reluctant to talk to a woman that you are seriously considering as a future mate is mind
numbingly stupid. How do you expect to find a compatible mate? There are men who do exactly
what you want to do.

They pick a girl who is hotter than they would be able to locally get and then they get married
and then they get divorced and come to this very forum complaining that the woman they
married did X, Y and Z and refused to do A, B and C. How did they NOT discuss X, Y and Z
and the rest of the alphabet before they got married? Answer, they had theories like Trenchcoat.

Your aversion to conversation is going to doom your finding a compatible mate. Your tactics will
cause most good girls to pass on you, leaving only those with questionable reasons for being
interested in you.
 
You want to skip a step but you can't. In order to find a good girl who is compatible you have
to talk to her.

[Donna_Pedro]

Donna, please stop with this nonsense.  Have you been to Ukraine recently?

You deny the fact of war or economic collapse in Ukrain?

[2tallbill]

Sorry to the OP I usually skip over Trenchcoat's insights.

Think it makes sense that a fair amount are out for fun as some women will even meet
you on the hoof you have hardly corresponded to out there just out of interest/fun in
meeting a WM.

Not to say of course that there aren't any serious ones out there but I think a fair amount
do just do it for the fun of it without really realising the guy is serious and they are potentially
making a PIA of themselves for the guy.

Trench,

Imagine how much fun a girl is having, she getting contacted by men thirty years older
and 50 pounds overweight and by men who live in their mothers basement with fake
photos and others with dick pic's that they've photoshopped. She is contacted by
married men and men who just want to see her tits.

What she is doing is sifting through the garbage trying to find someone real who isn't a
weirdo, married or worse. To find her diamond in the rough a girl has to dig through a lot
of dirt and rock. Sound like a blast?   

[Boethius]

You deny the fact of war or economic collapse in Ukrain?

I am just back from 2 months in Ukraine and Russia. It’s not the 1990’s.  There will always be women who will trade their youth for the opportunity to move abroad. However, there are opportunities for Ukrainians (and Russians, for that matter) that don’t require a man as a passport. I see a lot of Ukrainian emigres in my city, often families. There a also significant numbers of temporary foreign workers, which is a path to citizenship.

[Donna_Pedro]

I am just back from 2 months in Ukraine and Russia. It’s not the 1990’s.  There will always be women who will trade their youth for the opportunity to move abroad. However, there are opportunities for Ukrainians (and Russians, for that matter) that don’t require a man as a passport. I see a lot of Ukrainian emigres in my city, often families. There a also significant numbers of temporary foreign workers, which is a path to citizenship.

Yeh, oppotunities all right. Cruise ships, caregivers to old disabled people in EU.  My friend employes a few on his properties in Moscow area. washing toilets and shoveling manure for food, accomodation and a little spendiung money. When they  start asking for more  he fires them and brings another couple from the same Ukrainian village - there is never a shortage of candidates.  I meet alot of them on RW groups on FB. They can bs you, and you are free to buy it,  but it wont fly among RW.

[krimster2]

"...oppotunities all right"

sergei Brin - born in Kyiv
how many toilets does he clean per day

my paternal grandfather left Ukraine as a small child because of Russian persecution at the end of the 19th century
I'm glad he did
cuz if he stayed
and if somehow against all odds I had been born and survived
and found myself livin in Ukraine today

I'd be in Eastern Ukraine killin Russian MFers every single damned day they were in my country
since I was born in America
instead, I handed out old iphones to my wife's relatives in the Russian Army of the Western Military District
phones have tracking enabled
I personally know the deployment of several regiments of the army of the Russian Federation and check them daily
and so do others...

Putin is getting lower in the polls, how much longer to a war?

[Boethius]

Sergei Brin grew up in the US, largely.

You are seeing Ukrainians who don’t wish to learn another language. But none of those jobs are demeaning, are they?

I am a professional. I know Ukrainians here working in IT, in law (both lawyers and paralegals), as chartered accountants, teachers, nurses, and doctors. Our son’s math professor, about 32, is from Kyiv.

[krimster2]

BO

happy to see you return safely home
don't listen to this Russian rascist
who hates every culture but Russian
after reading her old posts
she is clearly one of the most delusional people ever to have posted on this board

so BO
what about the election
mood for Maidan II, potential?
war with Russia

[GQBlues]

Somebody is going to get that perfect girl. Why not you? Make sure she likes you as much as you like her. Girl #2 seems to really like you though. The other girl may seem better overall but girl #2 may try harder to make you happier. Girl #1 excuse she was ill may be true but if you're important to her, she should've went on the internet to let you know and not to worry. Wouldn't you do the same for her? As long as communications continue to go well with both girls, see them both.

If it were me, I'd give equal chance/opportunity to Girl #3 & #4, #5 if available, etc...Chances are high they're doing the same thing with our bachelor #1.

[SteveInBoston]

You deny the fact of war or economic collapse in Ukrain?

"Full blown war":  The separatist rebellion in Donbass.  Armed conflict in 2014, ceasefire with occasional pot shot and artillery shells in the border region, mostly west of Donetsk.  It is hell for people living in the border zone.

Sorry, it is not a full blown war.   How could I tell?  By not being bombed and riddled with bullets as I visited various cities, even a nice town near Berdyans'k.  No soldiers in site, no tanks, no fleeing refugees.  Unless those scantily clad girls on the beaches of the Azov sea were soldiers in disguise...


Economic collapse:   Inflation in Ukraine rose to 14% in 2014, skyrocketed to 48% in 2015, down to about 14% again in 2016, 2017.  2018 is projected at 11%.   1 USD was 8.25 UAH at the end of 2013.  Now 1 USD is 28.17 UAH.  Wopping 240% drop in value.  Unemployment rate was about 6.5 % before 2014, peaked to almost 11% in 2015, and is now around 9.5%.

Economic situation is bad in Ukraine, and many blame the rebellion as well as government corruption.  But not a collapse.  I was in Kyiv at the UEFA Championship between Liverpool and Madrid.  Roads were improved, the stadium looked nice (I didn't have tickets to the game).  Tons of traffic as people were going to/from work. 

So, please stop with the total war and disaster and people desperate to flee nonsense.   Only idiots from US/UK/Australia fall for that malarkey, sending $1000's of dollars to their sweet Natalia who needs to bribe the officials to get the visa and plane ticket to leaver their horrible situation and finally be with their one true love...

[krimster2]

not all wars are based on WWII
Russia has a new methodology of warfare
called Hybrid war
it is waging it full blast against Ukraine at this very moment


http://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/01/world/europe/russia-ukraine-ties-sour-further-as-moscow-imposes-sanctions.html
http://economics.unian.info/10309569-sanctions-announced-how-will-russia-hit-ukrainian-economy.html
http://economics.unian.info/10309569-sanctions-announced-how-will-russia-hit-ukrainian-economy.html

next yr Ukraine will lose 3 billion/yr gas transit
after losing Donbas it's major exporter
and Crimea
and now trade with Russia

how dare Ukraine stand up for itself after it was invaded
please do not call the Russian soldiers in Eastern Ukraine separatists

Russian FSB provided weapons to a Russian mobster to take over Crimean parliament, steal voting keys, name himself Prime Minister, which he still is
please do not call this an election

[SteveInBoston]

please do not call the Russian soldiers in Eastern Ukraine separatists

Hi Krim, I know you are passionate about this issue, but the region is manned by both Donbass separatists and russian soldiers, not just russian soldiers.  And the people there who have remained are mostly pro-Russian.  There are some pro-Ukrainians still there, but few.  Those who could left when the conflict started. 

My fiance is from Donetsk.  She still has a business there - a retail store.  She lives near Berdyansk, but travels to Donetsk every month or so to check in on her parents (who are pro-Russian) and her store.   Her 3 major complaints are the russians in her city, the separatist soldiers, and the 4+ hour delay to cross the border.  She recently solved the 3rd issue by taking a special taxi service that gets past the separatist check point in about 30 minutes or so - with a special taxi service access "tariff" the guy pays every month...

Her sister moved to Kyiv with her husband and kids, and her friends moved to Dnipre, Berdyansk or Kharkiv.

[Donna_Pedro]

Economic collapse:   Inflation in Ukraine rose to 14% in 2014, skyrocketed to 48% in 2015, down to about 14% again in 2016, 2017.  2018 is projected at 11%.   1 USD was 8.25 UAH at the end of 2013.  Now 1 USD is 28.17 UAH.  Wopping 240% drop in value.  Unemployment rate was about 6.5 % before 2014, peaked to almost 11% in 2015, and is now around 9.5%.

Economic situation is bad in Ukraine, and many blame the rebellion as well as government corruption.  But not a collapse.  I was in Kyiv at the UEFA Championship between Liverpool and Madrid.  Roads were improved, the stadium looked nice (I didn't have tickets to the game).  Tons of traffic as people were going to/from work. 

As it happens I do have relatives in Ukraine too. When I call, all I hear is   begging  me to arrange  a nice american guy to marry for their daughters and granddaughters.  Does not matter what guy it is,  as long as he is able and willing to get the girls out. So forgive me, if I am still inclined to trust my  family more. 

[krimster2]

the Russians fighting in Eastern Ukraine are not “separatists”
there is no such thing as separatism
Ukraine has a constitution
constitution says, you want to leave Ukraine
you hold a referendum
voted upon by ALL the people in Ukraine
not just a few
this is the LAW
if you take up arms against your own duly elected government
you’re a bit more than a separatist
you can’t say you’re a freedom fighter, if you’re free to leave
if you follow the constitution

in Crimea, it was decided by 30 armed men supplied with weapons by Russia
to takeover the Ukrainian Parliament late at night
take the voting keys and vote their leader as the new PM of Crimea

Little Green men, soon appeared, they were called local self defense forces
except their vehicles all had Moscow license plates

Eastern Ukraine is just a repeat of this
except this time Ukraine is fighting back

no one supports Ukraine in the DNPR
you can’t!
any such display of support
even wearing the flag of your country in your own country
will land you in jail in the DNPR
after you had your beatdown

there is almost no industry left in Donbas, no infrastructure
the only jobs are as a paid soldier in the DNPR
if I lived there, I’d have to feed my family
what else could I do but join up

a second after Russia pulls out its troops
stops paying for and sending mercenaries
stops sending weapons and support to terrorists
this war will end, literally one second...

[Trenchcoat]

As it happens I do have relatives in Ukraine too. When I call, all I hear is   begging  me to arrange  a nice american guy to marry for their daughters and granddaughters.  Does not matter what guy it is,  as long as he is able and willing to get the girls out. So forgive me, if I am still inclined to trust my  family more.

Or men in the UK perhaps?

This may be an opportune moment to help them out. Many guys on here not just those commenting but those quietly viewing too are seriously looking for a girl in Ukraine. If you post up a link to their profile I'm sure they may get some interest from guys on here. Most of the guys on here seriously want to meet a girl and aren't sex tourists, already married or other dubious intent. I don't doubt your Ukrainian relatives want out and whlie a guy doesn't purely want to be used as an immigration mule most women on International dating sites normally have some agenda in addition to finding the right guy. I see no reason why given a few visitations they can't find the right foreign guy and leave Ukraine.

[brownbeard99]

I hate to interrupt this fascinating  discussion on war, but...

I have couple insights in my very limited online experience.  I don’t see any women acting desperate.  Maybe they are good at hiding it.  I have initiated conversations with women and it goes well for awhile... but some loose interest after awhile and the conversation slowly dies off.  I would think desperate women would be talking to 100 guys every day until one finally comes to rescue them.

My personal dilemma talking to two girls on an emotional level (yea its my fault and I shouldn’t have created this situation) is becoming difficult to manage.  Only one knows that I am going there for sure later this month.  She is the mature one who knows not to ask about other girls.  I just told her I will be in town and want to spend a specific day with her. She was fine with that.  I really like her, but I have a strong feeling her interest level is just high enough to meet me (her words are very convincing, but her actions speak otherwise).  This is not enough to disqualify her.

I mentioned on the phone to the other girl about “possibly” visiting Ukraine later this month.  She said she can only get only get a day or two off work, so I should wait until January.  I told her that’s okay. I have some business contacts that I have never met in person with that I want to see, and that I want to explore the city by myself and I’m sure I can meet people and make Friends.  I don’t need a babysitter.  She immediately (joking) said, “Oh, yea... I’m sure you will make plenty of ‘friends’ while you are here.”

Since I talk every day with both girls, it would be impossible to go to Ukraine without them (eventually) knowing.  I have probably created a situation where I have to choose between the two before I even go, but I don’t want to!

Lastly, I think hearing all these warnings about scammers and such has mad me a little too suspicious.  The more shy girl would talk on the phone, but would never video chat.  She was so resistant that I became very suspicious (also, I have been catfished in the US).  We finally did video and I could tell she was so nervous and shy.  It was painful for her!  She wasn’t scamming me or anything... she just hates video.

[GQBlues]

I hate to interrupt this fascinating  discussion on war, but...

I have couple insights in my very limited online experience.  I don’t see any women acting desperate.  Maybe they are good at hiding it.  I have initiated conversations with women and it goes well for awhile... but some loose interest after awhile and the conversation slowly dies off.  I would think desperate women would be talking to 100 guys every day until one finally comes to rescue them.

My personal dilemma talking to two girls on an emotional level (yea its my fault and I shouldn’t have created this situation) is becoming difficult to manage.  Only one knows that I am going there for sure later this month.  She is the mature one who knows not to ask about other girls.  I just told her I will be in town and want to spend a specific day with her. She was fine with that.  I really like her, but I have a strong feeling her interest level is just high enough to meet me (her words are very convincing, but her actions speak otherwise).  This is not enough to disqualify her.

I mentioned on the phone to the other girl about “possibly” visiting Ukraine later this month.  She said she can only get only get a day or two off work, so I should wait until January.  I told her that’s okay. I have some business contacts that I have never met in person with that I want to see, and that I want to explore the city by myself and I’m sure I can meet people and make Friends.  I don’t need a babysitter.  She immediately (joking) said, “Oh, yea... I’m sure you will make plenty of ‘friends’ while you are here.”

Since I talk every day with both girls, it would be impossible to go to Ukraine without them (eventually) knowing.  I have probably created a situation where I have to choose between the two before I even go, but I don’t want to!

Lastly, I think hearing all these warnings about scammers and such has mad me a little too suspicious.  The more shy girl would talk on the phone, but would never video chat.  She was so resistant that I became very suspicious (also, I have been catfished in the US).  We finally did video and I could tell she was so nervous and shy.  It was painful for her!  She wasn’t scamming me or anything... she just hates video.

You had the board (at least me) believe you're a 'seasoned' dater. You're not. Not even close.

Forget WMVM. You don't have the personality, presence of mind or wits about you to succeed doing that approach. Go WOVO. That'll be your best chance in doing this.

[brownbeard99]

You had the board (at least me) believe you're a 'seasoned' dater. You're not. Not even close.

Forget WMVM. You don't have the personality, presence of mind or wits about you to succeed doing that approach. Go WOVO. That'll be your best chance in doing this.

*****
An aside...

What happened to BillyB's post I quoted on reply # 109 @ 2:42.52 yesterday? I thought RWD doesn't 'delete' post/s?

I’m sorry if you feel I have misled the board.  I’m not sure what “seasoned” is.... in the past three years, I have dated roughly 50 women and have had sex with 20 of them... I have had a few of those relationships last about 3 months.  Of course, I was also married twice and dated extensively before that.  Maybe I’m not experienced by your standards, but I wouldn’t say I’m completely inexperienced.

[Donna_Pedro]

Or men in the UK perhaps?

 I see no reason why given a few visitations they can't find the right foreign guy and leave Ukraine.

One word - competition. And no, I am not going to help them out. There are way too many ukranian women around for my taste.

She is the mature one who knows not to ask about other girls.  I

THats true. The girl knows that half a chance is better than no chance at all..

Btw, all this situations are RWG 101. There is a number of groups on FB  led by women, who are teaching women how to properly handle long distance relationships. Not showing that you are very interested is an ABC. If you appear desperate you lose a lot of leverage. How do you show a man that you are not desperate? Do not cancel your plans or take time off work just because he came to visit.

[brownbeard99]

One word - competition. And no, I am not going to help them out. There are way too many ukranian women around for my taste.



THats true. The girl knows that half a chance is better than no chance at all..

Btw, all this situations are RWG 101. There is a number of groups on FB  led by women, who are teaching women how to properly handle long distance relationships. Not showing that you are very interested is an ABC. If you appear desperate you lose a lot of leverage. How do you show a man that you are not desperate? Do not cancel your plans or take time off work just because he came to visit.

Sorry, I have not read the 101 lately. I will go back and read it again.  I would love to see one of these RW sites.  This one girl does seem like she’s going by some sort of playbook. I wouldn’t be surprised if she is in one of these FB groups.

Thanks

[Trenchcoat]

BB, keep both girls in play, either see both, one for a couple of days then the other or go see one and have thd other as backup. If there is no chemistry with first girl you can call it a day with her and you've got the other girl to call up. I think GQ means that for FSU dating stuff can get a bit more complex so you've got to learn you're way around the dating scene out there. A girl that you're hot on here can quickly turn into a dud when you're there in person.

[krimster2]

"I’m sorry if you feel I have misled the board.  I’m not sure what “seasoned” is.... in the past three years, I have dated roughly 50 women and have had sex with 20 of them... I have had a few of those relationships last about 3 months. "

IF the above statement is true, then

1. in the past 3 yr you've dated on average 1 new woman every 3 weeks
2. if the longest lasting relationship was 12 weeks, we'll call this variable max(T)
3. and if we assume min(T) to be zero
4. sample size S = 50
5. a discrete probability distribution would indicate that out of 50 women, only 1 out of 4 had a second date or greater with you
    which means you get "shot down" on average 3 out of 4 times on 1st dates, by women in "your own league"
    I could make a secondary derivative distribution that shows the average probability of you getting shot down on any given date is close to 90%

all in all, a very unusual if not downright puzzling dating profile
thanks for sharing

[2tallbill]

Sorry, I have not read the 101 lately. I will go back and read it again.  I would love to see one of these RW sites.  This one girl does seem like she’s going by some sort of playbook. I wouldn’t be surprised if she is in one of these FB groups.

Thanks

The sites are in Russian. I translated a large part of it on another forum. You can go here
and find all sorts of advice for the ladies (in Russian)

http://www.elenasmodels.com/ru/

[brownbeard99]

The sites are in Russian. I translated a large part of it on another forum. You can go here
and find all sorts of advice for the ladies (in Russian)

http://www.elenasmodels.com/ru/

As always, I am very thankful for your constructive help and advice.  I’d much rather ask my stupid questions here and learn at home than to learn the hard way by making these mistakes in real life.