The Russian/Syrian connection thread

[fathertime]

I’m with you regarding diversity FT, especially in terms of immigrants since I am one myself. One caveat I’d like to point out however is this…

Forget illegal immigration and (refugees which numbers in 100s of 1000s – plus visa lotteries) for now, but here are some interesting numbers we have…

How many immigrants reside in the United States?

The U.S. immigrant population stood at more than 42.4 million, or 13.3 percent, of the total U.S. population of 318.9 million in 2014, according to ACS data. Between 2013 and 2014, the foreign-born population increased by 1 million, or 2.5 percent.

Immigrants in the United States and their U.S.-born children now number approximately 81 million people, or 26 percent of the overall U.S. population.

•   Check out the Number and Share of Total U.S. Population, 1850-2014 in MPI’s Data Hub to see how the immigrant share of the overall population has fluctuated over time.

How many people immigrated to the United States last year?

In 2014, 1.3 million foreign-born individuals moved to the United States, an 11 percent increase from 1.2 million in 2013. India was the leading country of origin for new immigrants, with 147,500 arriving in 2014, followed by China with 131,800, Mexico with 130,000, Canada with 41,200, and the Philippines with 40,500….

Citation: http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/frequently-requested-statistics-immigrants-and-immigration-united-states/

Even our *very welcomed* Snowbird brothers and sisters up north, despite the wonderful social system they have, actually impacts immigration unto our population.

http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/canadian-immigrants-united-states

Maybe some of these snowbirds counseled the likes of Whoopie Goldberg et al about the stupidity of their conviction, no?

The point is, *real* unemployment (including those who settled for work far less than their qualification) is at around 10% of our population. This number doesn’t even include the much larger number of our African-American able-bodied brethren who are not in the labor force. We don't have enough jobs available for our own citizens, much less absorbing a few 100,000s more...

We are not, as many liberal media would like for everyone to believe, xenophobes. Hillary called me Deplorable No. 154,296 and LFU Irredeemable No. 69, but I would argue she's just full of it for making sh!t up. We welcome immigrants, if not invite them over, as long as they submit to our immigration policies and law.

Safe Zones…until all rational, logical and sane assessments can be made. Look at Germany, they don’t even have a clue who drove the truck, much less how to find him. They said they’re looking for someone who left behind his documents in the truck…whoever that idiot is, is still on the loose! How sad, wouldn't you say?

Anyway, to say Syrian refugees as a whole, despite a realistic unknown number who harness hatred against our society and culture, would be a positive addition unto the mix seem rather careless and callous to me, if not downright fatal. Unfortunately, this is the current climate with which we are confronted with today.

Thanks for making such a strong/reasoned case.


I'm still of the opinion that unemployment is low, and in the cases of those that are unemployed, it is mostly their own fault. Some don't want to work and are involved in illegal activity, others aren't able to function at a job for one reason or another.   There are jobs out there, many are not easy or pleasant jobs, but they are jobs.  Perhaps in some parts of the country the jobs are indeed gone, in those cases, people will have to move unless they can create their own work or work remotely. 


Regarding immigrants, I do see your point, and without a doubt when taking on immigrants, some extremists could slip in.   That is how it is which is terrible, but there is also a lot good people that get in, and in my opinion thus far the good outweighs the bad by a wide margin.    There is no perfect solution, but I would err on the side of having the nation/economy grow, and getting some people (that have been properly vetted)out of harm's way and giving them the chance to be a productive member of our society.  We have a lot of old people that want to be cared for or waited on hand and foot, and not enough younger people to cater to their desires! 


Your posts and LFU's posts don't come across as 'deplorable', but I've read some other 'patriot's' posts which DO come across that way.  I appreciate your take on things as being completely valid, and although we may not agree entirely, we agree on enough to probably hammer out a viable enough solution if we were the decision makers.


Fathertime!

[Gator]

Russia calls U.S. move to better arm Syrian rebels a 'hostile act'

The US for the first time since the Syrian civil war commenced in 2011 approved supplying shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles to unspecified rebel groups in Syria. 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-russia-usa-idUSKBN14G0K0?feedType=RSS&virtualBrandChannel=11563

The civil war in Syria has many fronts, involving different rebel groups ranging from Islamic extremists to Kurds to Christians.  Turkey supports one rebel group yet opposes the Kurdish rebels.    The US bombs ISIS yet does not bomb Assad even after Assad violated Obama's red line.  Russia bombs rebels directly fighting Assad, with minimal bombing of ISIS. 

The US support of rebels groups fighting Assad  has not been significant.  We have supplied light arms captured in Libya. And lacking defenses against aerial bombardments,  the rebel stronghold in Aleppo eventually fell. 

Assad with Russian and Iranian support will next attempt to capture rebel strongholds elsewhere in Syria.  If these rebels have better anti-aircraft defenses they will reduce the aerial bombardments seen in Aleppo.  It will keep the war going for a long time, and draw Russia in more of a quagmire.   

[fathertime]

Russia calls U.S. move to better arm Syrian rebels a 'hostile act'

The US for the first time since the Syrian civil war commenced in 2011 approved supplying shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles to unspecified rebel groups in Syria. 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-russia-usa-idUSKBN14G0K0?feedType=RSS&virtualBrandChannel=11563

The civil war in Syria has many fronts, involving different rebel groups ranging from Islamic extremists to Kurds to Christians.  Turkey supports one rebel group yet opposes the Kurdish rebels.    The US bombs ISIS yet does not bomb Assad even after Assad violated Obama's red line.  Russia bombs rebels directly fighting Assad, with minimal bombing of ISIS. 

The US support of rebels groups fighting Assad  has not been significant.  We have supplied light arms captured in Libya. And lacking defenses against aerial bombardments,  the rebel stronghold in Aleppo eventually fell. 

Assad with Russian and Iranian support will next attempt to capture rebel strongholds elsewhere in Syria.  If these rebels have better anti-aircraft defenses they will reduce the aerial bombardments seen in Aleppo.  It will keep the war going for a long time, and draw Russia in more of a quagmire.

Of course it is a hostile act for the USA to start arming rebels, especially when we know darn well that many of the weapons will wind up in the hands of ISIS.  We have no business in Syria, whereas Russia has been invited by the elected government to assist in the eradication of US backed 'rebel forces'. 


Trump has proposed something like 1 trillion for infrastructure improvement. Hopefully he substitutes that for our 'help' in the Syrian conflict, since it appears our main agenda is just to keep the killing/destruction going.  The most modern infrastructure and the 12 million illegal alien work force (and their offspring) may give us further opportunity to compete with other nations, whereas if we continue to rely on military intimidation, and old entitled chuckleheads in the work force, we wont stand a chance going forward!


Fathertime! 

[2tallbill]

The sources aren't the most credible, but does anyone think that the US government
under Team Obama/Clinton/Kerry couldn't have sent arms to the "bad terrorists" in
addition to the "good terrorists?" Is there anybody who thinks they might have
hired people with questionable reliability to guard the mission in Benghazi?

TURKEY’s President Recep Tayyip Erdogan has claimed he has
“confirmed evidence” US-led forces have supported ISIS.

The head of state claims the coalition has given support to terror groups including
ISIS and Kurdish militant groups YPG and PYD.

Erdogan said “it’s very clear” the US is supporting terror groups in a damning
press conference in Ankara.

He said: “They were accusing us of supporting Daesh (Islamic State).

“Now they give support to terrorist groups including Daesh, YPG, PYD. It’s very clear.
We have confirmed evidence, with pictures, photos and videos.”

read about it here
http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2484782/turkeys-president-tayyip-erdogan-claims-us-led-coalition-forces-have-supported-isis/


US-led forces have 'supported ISIS', claims Turkish president
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/573386/US-led-forces-supported-ISIS-Turkey-President-Erdogan-claims-Syria-fight

Does the US Fund Terror? Erdogan Says Turkey Has Evidence Washington
Supports ISIS, Kurds
http://www.ibtimes.com/does-us-fund-terror-erdogan-says-turkey-has-evidence-washington-supports-isis-kurds-2465915

[2tallbill]

Team Hillary wanted to help the good terrorists

WikiLeaks CONFIRMS Hillary Sold Weapons to ISIS… Then Drops Another BOMBSHELL!

Read more: http://www.thepoliticalinsider.com/wikileaks-confirms-hillary-sold-weapons-isis-drops-another-bombshell-breaking-news/#ixzz4U46IWGON

[GQBlues]

...
Does the US Fund Terror? Erdogan Says Turkey Has Evidence Washington
Supports ISIS, Kurds

"The future does not belong to those who slander the Prophet of Islam!"

Barack Hussein Obama

[ML]

I think it is true that USA supports the Kurds . . . to some degree.

And even moreso, we hold that out as weapon to get Turkey to do what we want Turkey to do.

i.e. We will fully support Kurds in their quest for an independent nation,  if Turkey doesn't do what we want.

[Gator]

The Kurds for the most part are "good guys." 

The Kurdish population in the Middle East numbers about 25-35 million in the countries of Turkey, Iran, Iraq and Syria.  They were forgotten when the French and English divided the Ottoman Empire into separate nations.  Syria Kurds number only about 2 million. 

The Kurds in Iraq have more independence than Kurds in other nations, yet are still part of sovereign Iraq.   The Iraqi Kurdish militia, with US support,  is helping in the fight against ISIS in Mosul. 

The greatest enemy of the Kurds is Turkey, where 12-20 million Kurds reside.  The Turkey Kurds include two rebel groups recognized as terrorists who have caused many deaths in Turkey, usually against police and military, in typical terrorist attacks.  . 

[BillyB]

Russia has been invited by the elected government to assist in the eradication of US backed 'rebel forces'. 

Assad's recent Ba'ath Party has been winning recent rigged elections. Originally the Ba'ath Party couldn't win a presidential election so they took over in a coup.

[fathertime]

Assad's recent Ba'ath Party has been winning recent rigged elections. Originally the Ba'ath Party couldn't win a presidential election so they took over in a coup.

I don't know about Syria's election result being fraudulent. 


Besides look at what people are saying about our own elections.  A guy wins with a minority of support, and millions less votes than the loser.  Other people are claiming there are millions of illegal ballets being cast by illegals.  It seems rather hollow for us to start dictating to a country like Syria that their election is rigged or corrupt.  We certainly don't need to be fomenting war any more than we already have, especially on the basis of their election process!






Fathertime!

[GQBlues]

I don't know about Syria's election result being fraudulent. 


Besides look at what people are saying about our own elections.  A guy wins with a minority of support, and millions less votes than the loser.  Other people are claiming there are millions of illegal ballets being cast by illegals.  It seems rather hollow for us to start dictating to a country like Syria that their election is rigged or corrupt.  We certainly don't need to be fomenting war any more than we already have, especially on the basis of their election process!

Google is everyone's friend, FT. Even Al Asaad. All he would have to do is Google what Electoral College is in our election process and I doubt they've be as dense & stumped as many of our liberal voters and Hollywood celebrities alike here in the US.

I do agree with you with your last sentence though.

[msmob]

I don't know about Syria's election result being fraudulent. 

Surely you jest..?

Prior to the 'Arab Springs' the Asads Presidencies were never contested ..  A 'Presidential election' was held in June 2014 - he faced two 'candidates'.. All opposition factions boycotted the 'elections'

As only the govt held areas could vote - the UN's Sec Gen - Ban Ki Moon warned, ''that the elections are likely to worsen the situation, saying they "will damage the political process and hamper the prospects for a political solution that the country so urgently needs."

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/06/03/world/meast/syria-election/index.html

[BillyB]

I don't know about Syria's election result being fraudulent. 

I have some friends from Iraq and Saddam's Ba'ath Party in the past has people packing guns at voter locations watching voters fill out their ballots. Saddam routinely got 100% of the votes.

Assad got 100% of the votes every election except in 2014 in the middle of Syria's civil war. To please the people so they'd put their arms down, Assad finally allowed more than one person on the ballot! This generous gesture of providing a "choice" for a president hasn't been offered to the Syrian people in decades. Assad got almost 90% of the vote in the 2014 election. I think there is much more than 10% of the population that hates him so obviously the elections are rigged. Syrian people are tired of over 46 years of Assad family rule. This is the kind of man and government Russia likes to support and do business with.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/04/bashar-al-assad-winds-reelection-in-landslide-victory

Besides look at what people are saying about our own elections.  A guy wins with a minority of support, and millions less votes than the loser.  Other people are claiming there are millions of illegal ballets being cast by illegals.  It seems rather hollow for us to start dictating to a country like Syria that their election is rigged or corrupt.  We certainly don't need to be fomenting war any more than we already have, especially on the basis of their election process!

Our country is pretty much even split on politics yet neither the liberals or conservatives are not at the point of risking our homes, lives, and our families futures by rebelling against those in power with violence and loss of life. If any future president is anything like Assad, we'd get to the point the Syrian people are at.

[fathertime]

I have some friends from Iraq and Saddam's Ba'ath Party in the past has people packing guns at voter locations watching voters fill out their ballots. Saddam routinely got 100% of the votes.

Assad got 100% of the votes every election except in 2014 in the middle of Syria's civil war. To please the people so they'd put their arms down, Assad finally allowed more than one person on the ballot! This generous gesture of providing a "choice" for a president hasn't been offered to the Syrian people in decades. Assad got almost 90% of the vote in the 2014 election. I think there is much more than 10% of the population that hates him so obviously the elections are rigged. Syrian people are tired of over 46 years of Assad family rule. This is the kind of man and government Russia likes to support and do business with.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/04/bashar-al-assad-winds-reelection-in-landslide-victory

Our country is pretty much even split on politics yet neither the liberals or conservatives are not at the point of risking our homes, lives, and our families futures by rebelling against those in power with violence and loss of life. If any future president is anything like Assad, we'd get to the point the Syrian people are at.

Well Billy, here is a little article about Assad in the last election before the 'rebels' sprang upon the scene.  Syria, like many countries,  have their own way of doing things, and I can respect it.  Stability and slow change weren't so bad.


It isn't our place to interfere/foment.


[size=78%]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/may/28/syria.ianblack[/size]


Fathertime!   

[BillyB]

Stability and slow change weren't so bad.

Syria is ranked third on the misery index. Assad's brand of ruling is pretty bad. If he had an ounce of love for his people, he would resign so they stop fighting, take a few hundred million dollars worth of tax payer money and retire in Russia for the security. Instead he chooses to slaughter civilians that disagree with his politics and pay Russia for assistance. Syrians, their children and their children's children are going to owe Russia for a long time.

http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-misery-index-reveals-the-worst-countries-to-live-in.html

It isn't our place to interfere/foment.

Large nations always had influence in smaller nations and always will. China and Russia understand for them to become top dog, they need more land and/or influence to get past America since they can't achieve this goal within their own country. Becoming pacifists will get us to the same place as other pacifist nations and peoples...extinct. They only thing keeping Russia and China from breaking loose is the thought America will get involved with the nations they want to conquer/influence.

[msmob]

Google is everyone's friend, FT.

It clearly wasn't FT's re his astounding lack of knowledge re Syria

Then he compounds it by posting an article - suggesting it predates the Arab Spring demonstrations - that brought about Assad's ''elections' ..

I doubt they've be as dense & stumped as many of our liberal voters and Hollywood celebrities alike here in the US.

Indeed more 'dense' folks voted for the other 'guy' and the 'winner's' tweet - from Nov '12 - telling us how 'undemocratic' the EC system is makes for amusing reading ...

[fathertime]

Syria is ranked third on the misery index. Assad's brand of ruling is pretty bad. If he had an ounce of love for his people, he would resign so they stop fighting, take a few hundred million dollars worth of tax payer money and retire in Russia for the security. Instead he chooses to slaughter civilians that disagree with his politics and pay Russia for assistance. Syrians, their children and their children's children are going to owe Russia for a long time.

http://www.worldatlas.com/articles/the-misery-index-reveals-the-worst-countries-to-live-in.html

Large nations always had influence in smaller nations and always will. China and Russia understand for them to become top dog, they need more land and/or influence to get past America since they can't achieve this goal within their own country. Becoming pacifists will get us to the same place as other pacifist nations and peoples...extinct. They only thing keeping Russia and China from breaking loose is the thought America will get involved with the nations they want to conquer/influence.

I'm almost surprised it isn't first on the misery index given the ongoing war.  I don't think Assad is going to pack up and leave because people from the US are telling him he brand of leadership is pretty bad.  We don't need to be trying to influence their country, and if we feel the need, then we certainly shouldn't bellyache about Russia doing the same, or even doing what they can to influence our own elections.

It clearly wasn't FT's re his astounding lack of knowledge re Syria

Then he compounds it by posting an article - suggesting it predates the Arab Spring demonstrations - that brought about Assad's ''elections' ..
.

Fathertime! 

[GQBlues]

LMAO! While the likes of you (RWD members living thousands of miles out of our country, yet feverishly involve themselves in debates about its politics armed only with regurgitated liberal news fed off by our media) are generally stuck in 1st gear, you on the other hand is fully engaged in reverse.

Ignorant is as ignorant does...I'll humor your pitiful soul one time as I realize it must sux to high heavens having to 'wait' for more trashy liberal news to reinforce your delusions.

You commented:

...Indeed more 'dense' folks voted for the other 'guy' and the 'winner's' tweet - from Nov '12 - telling us how 'undemocratic' the EC system is makes for amusing reading ...

Okay. Now you need stay with me here as I know you'll find this incredibly difficult to understand much less comprehend. But I'll try nonetheless. It will be substantially different than what you normally immerse yourself with reading your usual tabloids.

Donald J. Trump may in fact still be of the opinion that our electoral college system is 'undemocratic', but he also understood the virtue of such a process. I, for one, subscribe to the same notion. THIS IS WHY HE WAS, and IS, a brilliant presidential candidate. And LARGELY why, he now is our president-elect and soon to be POTUS. He understood the *rules* despite skepticism, and fully engaged himself with it.

Now stay with me, I'll make this very simple just for you....

Knowing the virtue of the electoral college, DJT composed and planned, then implemented, his presidential campaign run accordingly. He knew where the 'red/blue states' are, He also knew exactly where the 'swing states' are, which had generally been 'blue' leaning and had even been recently pegged as the 'blue wall states' because those states largely carried Democrats in recent elections. He understood the recent election history and planned his campaign strategy.

He took the time to find out why that was, what the current living conditions of its populations, what effect did the Democratic administration/s had done to/for them...and what the underlying reason/s why...then he brilliantly equated what a candidate like himself can do to stop the erosion of those people's livelihood.

He then campaigned *heavily* within those states. Customarily reinforced states that are generally conservative, only to return to these swing states and campaigned some more. Donald *hit* states like California, Washington, Oregon, and even New York - with but a token 'visit', He hit California, IIRC, 4-5 times. That's during both the primaries AND the presidential, and two of *visits* were to raise funds (One in the Bay area and Tulare County). He knew these states will be blue - why rally and neglect states he knew he had to win over to ELECTORALLY win this election.

So...chew on that a bit and appreciate the beauty of our process and the brilliance of our upcoming POTUS.

You call Trump's supporters 'dense', yet blokes like you are still at the mercy of a *useless* 90-year old woman you hail as your *queen* for decades. One who doesn't really do anything other than sit around on her aging buttocks, and is only seen hosting huge lavish birthday parties and smiling when she gets out on those massive parades waving to her feeble-minded adoring minions as if to rub their miserable faces with it.

It's incredibly hysterical to me to see YOU having an opinion about our republic and its system, while ignoring your own state with yours. Pathetic, actually.

So msmob, you should've just confined yourself arguing about how safe Tupelov planes are, or at the very least, put up a fight against reality that you really hate the term 'MOB' despite the reality you not only fully subscribed to it, but continue to immerse yourself with it.

LMAO, gotta sux to be you...

[msmob]

LMAO! While the likes of you (RWD members living thousands of miles out of our country, yet feverishly involve themselves in debates about its politics armed only with regurgitated liberal news fed off by our media) are generally stuck in 1st gear, you on the other hand is fully engaged in reverse.

Let me see

THIS was a thread about Syria and Russia .. and you are discussing nations thousands of miles away and referring to one section of the US electorate as dense [ minus the parenthesis ] ....Do you understand irony ?

I'll humor your pitiful soul one time as I realize it must sux to high heavens having to 'wait' for more trashy liberal news to reinforce your delusions.

'newsflash' Some of us enjoy reading the news from many sources ..  I think you may be addressing the mirror re the rest of your post. I am in Russia and have far more interesting things to do ... it does not involve reading tabloids .. 

Spockoinoi nochi i sladi snov ..

[GQBlues]

Let me see

THIS was a thread about Syria and Russia .. and you are discussing nations thousands of miles away and referring to one section of the US electorate as dense [ minus the parenthesis ] ....Do you understand irony ?

'newsflash' Some of us enjoy reading the news from many sources ..  I think you may be addressing the mirror re the rest of your post. I am in Russia and have far more interesting things to do ... it does not involve reading tabloids .. 

Spockoinoi nochi i sladi snov ..

Well, I'm glad I finally got the point across...

[LiveFromUkraine]

One who doesn't really do anything other than sit around on her aging buttocks, and is only seen hosting huge lavish birthday parties and smiling when she gets out on those massive parades waving to her feeble-minded adoring minions as if to rub their miserable faces with it.

She's getting out a little more these days and finally went to see where the commoners buy their food.

[Boethius]

That is a very unfair characterization of Her Majesty.  She is involved in affairs of state, and she works her tail off, even at 90 years old. 

[Gator]

That is a very unfair characterization of Her Majesty.  She is involved in affairs of state, and she works her tail off, even at 90 years old.

Love "The Crown" on Netflix. 

[Anotherkiwi]

That is a very unfair characterization of Her Majesty.  She is involved in affairs of state, and she works her tail off, even at 90 years old.

Agreed.  And I very much doubt that many (any?) of the current membership of this Forum will even reach 90 years old, let alone be working as hard as the Queen does when they get to that milestone.  I also doubt that any British monarch (apart from Edward VIII) ever "retired" as such, whatever their age when they died.

[msmob]

She's getting out a little more these days and finally went to see where the commoners buy their food.

'Poor' 'ol  LFU..

You DO know HM is in a branch of Waitrose ...the 'commoners' can't afford to shop there ...

Thank you for demonstrating you in depth knowledge of UK brands and lifestyle choices