WTF!

[Trenchcoat]

I had indeed asked how her aunt is doing and all that before I made it clear I am not giving my dog to a shelter for any reason. And i had been asking about her aunt in every message for a week. You were not on Skype with me and her. You are free to draw conclusions as you wish. If FSUW think giving me an ultimatum about my dog is the right thing to do, they are dumber than I want. There is NO woman for whom I will give up my dog.

Wall I think you need to reread what BillyB just wrote and really try to take this time over understanding it. He is not saying anything about it being about the importance of your dog in a relationship. He is saying you need to ignore her interjection about your dog when you spoke with her. Leave any talk of it till way after her aunt situation has passed as she is reacting out of frustration of the situation her aunt is in. As they say women are emotional creatures - she is lashing out illogically you just needed to sidestep the situation instead of focusing more intensely on the issue and getting into a position that you are both wound up into ardently opposing positions. Odds are I would have made the same mistake in your position and not realised until perhaps too late that I should have handled it differently. I tend to move through a conversation in a methodical manner whereas what I am learning more and more is that this doesn't necessarily mean good social skills in hitting each base in a methodical manner. Its more a realisation that it's more important to pick out what to go with in a conversation and what base points to avoid hitting.

[jone]

I had indeed asked how her aunt is doing and all that before I made it clear I am not giving my dog to a shelter for any reason. And i had been asking about her aunt in every message for a week. You were not on Skype with me and her. You are free to draw conclusions as you wish. If FSUW think giving me an ultimatum about my dog is the right thing to do, they are dumber than I want. There is NO woman for whom I will give up my dog.

To take things a step further:  What would happen if you gave up your dog and then she comes up with some other ultimatum that you would have to decline.  Then you would be without your dog and without a woman.

[ML]

To take things a step further:  What would happen if you gave up your dog and then she comes up with some other ultimatum that you would have to decline.  Then you would be without your dog and without a woman.

Men (women) hide girlfriends (boyfriends) from other girlfriends (boyfriends), so why not hide dogs from girlfriends (boyfriends)?

[treadmilldude]

Wallm, you are making the correct decision by dumping this Ukrainian girl. You should 100.000% dump her as she has given you an ultimatum that is absolutely unacceptable - get rid of your sweet Dog I know you love like it was your first-born child. I love my 2 Male Cats more than life itself. I have never had any woman, US or Slavic, give me an ultimatum to get rid of my 2 Cats or she is leaving me. Thankfully, I have never dated a woman that evil or cruel. But if I ever do enter into a relationship with an American or Slavic woman in the future, who is insane enough to give me that ultimatum, I will dump that clinically insane woman so fast her head will spin. Wallm, you clearly did the right thing by dumping her. There are only about 10 million other thin, skinny, attractive single women out there in the FSU and the US. Just pick whichever one of those you like best and pursue her. Dumping the "dog-hater" immediately is an outstanding move on your part.

JayH, you know I like you and respect you in many ways. You are one of the most experienced members on RWD, bar none. In fact, in terms of your knowledge of Ukraine, as I have told you a couple of times through PM, I consider you and Boethius to be the two foremost authorities on all things Ukraine. I think you and Boe, Jayh, have a better handle and grasp on how things really work in Ukraine, both big-picture wise, as well as the inner intricacies of the country and culture, than any other members on this board.

My one 28 day trip to Minsk....I can truly say I do not even have 1% the amount of knowledge of that country as is required for me to be qualified to give any sort of advice on Belarus. I am smart enough to know what I don't know about Belarus. And what I do not know about Belarus could fill 10,000  one thousand-page textbooks. Until I have made at least 12-15 more trips to the FSU, I will not be doling out any advice to any member on RWD because I am not smart enough and I do not have nearly enough wisdom, knowledge or experience about FSU women and their countries to be qualified to give any advice. I have found I learn a lot more when I listen and read than when I open my mouth and post. So that is what I have been doing since January - closing my mouth, hands off my keyboard, listening and reading.

Anyways JayH, again, you know I look up to you so much and I am very appreciative of all the good help, knowledge and advice you have shared with me through PM. Thank you so much Jay.

That being said Jay, you need to lay off Wallm a little bit and cut him some slack. In my opinion, you are WAY too hard on WallM. Wallm ALWAYS means well, he always has the best of intentions when he posts. I truly think WallM will make a great Husband to a FSUW if that is the direction he decides to go in for a Wife. But, I certainly wish Wallm a lot of luck in his pursuit of his Yoga instructor (or was it Pilates instructor, I forget??  ) there at his Gym. Goodness knows I have successfully dated a ton of girls throughout the years I met at various gyms I have been a member of in several different cities. The gym is a fantastic place to meet a girl, I really cannot think of a better place for the genesis of a long-term relationship than the gym. Sweating together, pushing through some serious weight together, the camaraderie associated with a Man and A Woman working out together at a gym - is very conducive to the origins of a successful relationship.

JayH, just cut WallM a tiny bit of slack. He is the complete antithesis of Trenchcoat. Whereas Trenchcoat, in his grand total of (2) 6 day trips (12 days total in Ukraine) to Ukraine, already assumes he is "The Expert" on all things Ukraine and is qualified to give is "Expert" advice on anything and everything about Ukraine.....WallM is just like me .....we are both smart enough to know what we don't know, and what we Don't know about Belarus and Ukraine, respectively, can be measured against what we DO know about those 2 countries in about a 10,000:1 ratio. WallM comes across to me as a very decent, Good Man who, whether he marries his Yoga / Pilates instructor, or some girl from Belarus or Ukraine, he will have a very successful marriage with said woman.

Trenchcoat on the other hand.....all I can say is I have great fear, concern and worry for the Slavic woman he manages to scam and bamboozle into marrying him.

JayH, you and I both agree about Trenchcoat. But I do not agree with you, Jay, on your treatment of WallM. WallM has a good, kind heart and a LOT of common sense. Cut him just a little bit of slack JayH. Thanks man.   

[wallm]

Men (women) hide girlfriends (boyfriends) from other girlfriends (boyfriends), so why not hide dogs from girlfriends (boyfriends)?

LOL...always the resident comedian.

[JayH]

.

JayH, you and I both agree about Trenchcoat. But I do not agree with you, Jay, on your treatment of WallM. WallM has a good, kind heart and a LOT of common sense. Cut him just a little bit of slack JayH. Thanks man. 

The only thing WallM and TC have in common is this forum   -- and maybe an underlying contempt for Ukraine ie not understanding many things and jumping to conclusions.
I also agree that a man and women working up a sweat together is a good thing !!

I posted above about my own dog because-- if a lady I had was genuinely concerned I would respect that. Not to the extent of getting rid of the dog -- but to adjust my behaviour( & the dogs) accordingly. I tend to think her comment was more at the extreme end of what she was actually thinking at the time -- and perhaps being met with more concern for HIS dog than her aunt being seriously ill.
My other observation here --I don't think it is an issue solvable at long distance --he is emotionally involved with his dog-- she has no relationship with the dog .

[wallm]

So, do I understand correctly?  Anne is your spinning instructor?  Does that mean she is a spinner?

really? Spinning as in Spin bike!

To answer your other question, we never professed love for each other. It takes me more than a few months to fall in love. I am not in a mad rush. I went back to see her in July and I was supposed to go back end of this month. We did talk endlessly about life together, having kids (she doesn't have any), how to raise them, hopes for the future, our dreams, etc. And we were very affectionate towards each other.

[wallm]

Since I like closure and not juvenile silent treatment, I just sent her a message wishing her aunt well. I also wished her well and bid goodbye. I sincerely hope she finds someone better than I am.

I am officially a free agent. Time for some NFL football this weekend. Which teams are you guys fans of? I am an <gulp> Eagles fan.

P.S: yes, I am changing topic since there is nothing to see here anymore about the original topic.

[ML]

Wow . . . three pages about a dog.

[southernX]

This may have started about a dog, but ensued to something else that you should not ignore. Never allow a woman give you the shaft. She didn't hesitate to disrespect you by ignoring you, don't think she'll somehow change someday especially if you're the type to succumb to such drama.

Move on.

Never ever mistake bad behavior to cultural differences, which is exactly what the peanut gallery is convincing you to do. In the end it's your dollar and your show.

with this i agree

attempting to dictate to you over the dog is a sign of future issues & how she well may handle them
silent strike is  passive aggressive , she is trying to get her way and that wont change especially if you look to ''fix '' the problem by doing the bidding 
then you will have been ''broken in '' so to speak as to how life would be  lol

 SX

[wallm]

Wow . . . three pages about a dog.

You are wrong. It is three pages about what an insensitive pr**k I am. 

[southernX]

You are wrong. It is three pages about what an insensitive pr**k I am. 

lol , no id say you may have learned a good thing here
billy made some good points  here below

That is what a real MAN would do. You're supposed to be wiser and know more than the woman. FSU expect that from their man. Those women act strong but they prefer to be weak around a strong man. It's your responsibility to be strong and steer the ship in the right direction even if they made a wrong turn.

however it is a good pointer to how she will react to stress and where her focus will be in such times
proceeding with a visa and moving overseas , adapting to a new country and life there is loaded with stress and all sorts of situations that will cause tension if not opposing views .  and it takes 2 to work at respecting each other as they arise

space, time and quiet thought /reflection can be great between 2 people   but
silent strike is not a great trait when applied over days or weeks it is manipulative ,    there lies the difference imo 

 i think you will find in time you made the right choice for you  as at the end of the day you are looking for a best fit for you !! 

there are more fish in the sea , keep casting your net wallm

SX

[BillyB]

Time for some NFL football this weekend. Which teams are you guys fans of? I am an <gulp> Eagles fan.

No wonder you're depressed. You're an Eagles fan. Go with the Seahawks and life will be more enjoyable.

Since I like closure and not juvenile silent treatment, I just sent her a message wishing her aunt well. I also wished her well and bid goodbye. I sincerely hope she finds someone better than I am.

Saying "goodbye" is like hammering the final nail in the coffin. Save the goodbyes for the bad girls. Always leave the door open for the other girls. You could slow down the frequency of the contacts you make with her until you stop it completely. She may come around someday and write you. I've had girls that seem to fade away after dating them only for them to pop up out of the blue asking how I'm doing and if I were free.

[Ludmila]

[quote
 But there is zero chance I will pick her or anyone other woman over my dog. It could just be me. My dog sleeps near my feet in my bed. I am willing to get her off the bed if future Mrs. wants it but there is no way in hell I would give her to a shelter.

wallm, I'm sorry it got down to such a painful dilemma for you and the girl. To exclude the aggravation in future, include those quoted  lines above that you wrote,  in your profile. Your future lady has to be a dog lover. It is clear, the presence of your dog is a deal breaker. Your girl  thought it could be a subject to discussion. It is not. For many ladies it may be a deal breaker ( for different reasons : some -- for fear, some for additional cleaning and effort to clean after an animal. Both you and the girl have to be dog lovers. Hope, you will find one, and both of you will enjoy it.

[BillyB]

To exclude the aggravation in future, include those quoted  lines above that you wrote,  in your profile. Your future lady has to be a dog lover. It is clear, the presence of your dog is a deal breaker.

This is a good idea to make sure there is no surprises down the line. It's best to talk about all deal breaking issues before spending thousands on a first date. I had a relationship with a girl and she gave me her @mail.ru password to handle the mail she is getting from other men. I took it as if she wanted to earn my trust. I did read what some of my competition were writing. One man said he likes to be tickled and is looking for a woman that would enjoy tickling him. He got right to the point in his introduction letter what he expects from his woman.

[JayH]

Gotta say --the most sensible post Ludmilla has ever made !!

[msmob]

Which teams are you guys fans of? I am an <gulp> Eagles fan.

NFL?

I'm a fan of real football. ..not armoured Rugby with constant stops for adding breaks..)

[wallm]

No wonder you're depressed. You're an Eagles fan. Go with the Seahawks and life will be more enjoyable.

SHEhawks? Eew....

[jone]

Sea Pigeons.  Will be at Sunday's game at Lambeau.

[Trenchcoat]

Saying "goodbye" is like hammering the final nail in the coffin. Save the goodbyes for the bad girls. Always leave the door open for the other girls. You could slow down the frequency of the contacts you make with her until you stop it completely. She may come around someday and write you. I've had girls that seem to fade away after dating them only for them to pop up out of the blue asking how I'm doing and if I were free.

This is all gold dust Billy and it was good as I was thinking the exact same point so you must be having a positive affect on me improving my social skills I was thinking the same as who knows the girl may come around later when after the situation with her aunt is in the past and may reconsider how she has treated Wall, but as Wall has now essentially closed the door to future communications making it hard for her to reopen them it is a waste. Wall doing as he has done has essentially made the effort to tell her its finished without gaining anything for doing so, it is a pointless effort. It is why I have not done similar with the last girl I met, I still care about her, etc but the impasse is not going anywhere unless she decides otherwise, but why pointlessly close off the relationship, it serves no purpose other than you say for getting rid of bad girls. I'm not sure she has the best qualities but misunderstandings happen and may unravel over time. Your earlier advice on "Take the money and go help your aunt get vaccinations or other medicine she needs to recover. Score some points with the girl and her family. Later when the dog comes up, she's much more likely to accept the dog if that is what it takes to be with a wonderful caring husband." is also very worthy advice and something many of us here including lurkers can benefit from. After seeing examples of how well you handle such situations Billy I'm not surprised you found yourself a little gem in your FSW search

[Trenchcoat]

JayH, just cut WallM a tiny bit of slack. He is the complete antithesis of Trenchcoat. Whereas Trenchcoat, in his grand total of (2) 6 day trips (12 days total in Ukraine) to Ukraine, already assumes he is "The Expert" on all things Ukraine and is qualified to give is "Expert" advice on anything and everything about Ukraine.....WallM is just like me .....we are both smart enough to know what we don't know, and what we Don't know about Belarus and Ukraine, respectively, can be measured against what we DO know about those 2 countries in about a 10,000:1 ratio. WallM comes across to me as a very decent, Good Man who, whether he marries his Yoga / Pilates instructor, or some girl from Belarus or Ukraine, he will have a very successful marriage with said woman.

Trenchcoat on the other hand.....all I can say is I have great fear, concern and worry for the Slavic woman he manages to scam and bamboozle into marrying him.

JayH, you and I both agree about Trenchcoat. But I do not agree with you, Jay, on your treatment of WallM. WallM has a good, kind heart and a LOT of common sense. Cut him just a little bit of slack JayH. Thanks man. 

TMD if you are such a great puller down the gym why on earth are you looking for a FSW? Something tells me you are not all you are professing yourself to be, if you were you would be sorted with a girl by now. TMD, the learning and growing done here comes with looking at yourself at honestly being open with yourself and others on here about your faults. I have never professed to be an expert on Ukraine I just offer the experiences I have had (small though they may be) and put what I see on the issue. As I have already admitted I am not the most socially savvy guy around and in a culturally different environment as Ukraine its going to take a bit of understanding. Some stuff out there I can relate a little too other stuff is completely alien to me. I'm not great socially but I can be quite perceptive I feel at times, sure there are times when I don't fall in straight away but more often than not I see stuff that others may not.

Don't just ape what JayH says just to curry favour, you need to make progress in your search for a FSW not get into rivalries on here. For sure JayH and Nightwish actually know quite a bit and are more experienced/understanding than first appears. For me they are not always easy to get into a logical conversation with, Nightwish I think once and possible JayH on a very rare occasion that I can't even remember. They just tend to lash out at the OP often whether it is me, Wall or someone else and their aloofness may be one of the reasons why it is taking them a while on the search. Wall is not me but I think we both understand it is not an easy act to follow on this venture - there is understanding to be done. Sure an odd few people luck out first time and live happily ever after, some luck out only for it to go pear shaped later, most though need to put in some time, effort and money along the way into this in order to reap any rewards.

I would suggest you book a trip, go on one, write a trip report for us here with photos and show us what progress you are making. 

[wallm]

Trench, we are taking football now. It is agreed that I am an insensitive jackass who should have kicked my dog out to pacify a FSUW.

American football...one that is a heck of a lot fun. Not your kind which sucks. I can tolerate a Cricket ODI a lot better than soccer played by a bunch of sissies who fall to the ground grabbing their legs and crying if there is even the slightest of contact.

[Boethius]

TMD if you are such a great puller down the gym why on earth are you looking for a FSW? Something tells me you are not all you are professing yourself to be, if you were you would be sorted with a girl by now. TMD, the learning and growing done here comes with looking at yourself at honestly being open with yourself and others on here about your faults. I have never professed to be an expert on Ukraine I just offer the experiences I have had (small though they may be) and put what I see on the issue. As I have already admitted I am not the most socially savvy guy around and in a culturally different environment as Ukraine its going to take a bit of understanding. Some stuff out there I can relate a little too other stuff is completely alien to me. I'm not great socially but I can be quite perceptive I feel at times, sure there are times when I don't fall in straight away but more often than not I see stuff that others may not.

Don't just ape what JayH says just to curry favour, you need to make progress in your search for a FSW not get into rivalries on here. For sure JayH and Nightwish actually know quite a bit and are more experienced/understanding than first appears. For me they are not always easy to get into a logical conversation with, Nightwish I think once and possible JayH on a very rare occasion that I can't even remember. They just tend to lash out at the OP often whether it is me, Wall or someone else and their aloofness may be one of the reasons why it is taking them a while on the search. Wall is not me but I think we both understand it is not an easy act to follow on this venture - there is understanding to be done. Sure an odd few people luck out first time and live happily ever after, some luck out only for it to go pear shaped later, most though need to put in some time, effort and money along the way into this in order to reap any rewards.

I would suggest you book a trip, go on one, write a trip report for us here with photos and show us what progress you are making.

You mean like all the photos you posted?

[GQBlues]

Isn't that WWE on grass?

[wallm]

LOL....that is soccer or is it ballet.

In the NFL they may throw a flag for unsportsman like conduct for faking.