Advice from guys who have been there

[Sender]

Hey all.  I'd like some advice from guys who have been married to FSU women.

My fiancee finally arrived from Moscow after months of working on the visa (you know how it is).

She generally is a fairly quiet woman and speaks pretty good English.

It's been exactly one week since she has arrived.  During that time, she has gotten even more quiet towards me, barely talking to me.  She shrugs off any attempts at intimacy.  She talks with her friends and family for hours every day on her phone.  Today, the 7th day here, she announced she has met Russian people who live in the city and she's going out with them this weekend, and going to a rock concert with them next weekend.

When I asked about why she was acting distant towards me, she said it's because being in a new country that's so different is stressful and confusing for her.

I honestly don't know if this is weird or if this is something other men have experienced when their FSU woman first came to their country.  Like, did they temporarily become distant towards you?  Or did they become clingy towards you? 

Obviously women are different and will react differently to situations.  It just feels weird, though, and I'm very curious about guys who have already done this fiancee thing and how it was when their fiancee first arrived.

[Boethius]

How long did you know her before becoming engaged?  What was she like in Russia?  How old is she?  Is there a big age gap? Has she been married before?

[JayH]

How long did you know her before becoming engaged?  What was she like in Russia?  How old is she?  Is there a big age gap? Has she been married before?

That all saved me asking!

[ML]

Let me guess.  You were a WOVO guy and there was no intimacy before  the visa process was started.

[ML]

Today, the 7th day here, she announced she has met Russian people who live in the city and she's going out with them this weekend, and going to a rock concert with them next weekend.

Reminds me the story that Irina (the apartment expert in St Petersburg) told me back in 2001 or so.

Earlier she had operated a matchmaking service for awhile.
She matched up a man from Switzerland with one of her gals.
He paid for her airfare to and from Switzerland.
As soon as he met her at airport, she told that she would be going off to spend the entire vacation time with Russian friends, and would come back to the airport when it was time for her return flight.

Irina had experienced bad behavior from her gals before, but this was the last straw, so she gave up the matchmaking service.

[LAman]

So how do you spell M u l e .....

[fathertime]

I married a woman from Colombia, but what you have described is just straight very very bad. When my wife first arrived she was on the internet a lot with family/friends which is understandable to a degree, but there were a lot of positive signs too, which in your case you are not describing.    Unless you are leaving something out, I'd do everything I could to send her back immediately.  You can try having a conversation, but this doesn't sound very hopeful at all.   


Fathertime! 

[BillyB]

It's been exactly one week since she has arrived.  During that time, she has gotten even more quiet towards me, barely talking to me.  She shrugs off any attempts at intimacy.  She talks with her friends and family for hours every day on her phone.  Today, the 7th day here, she announced she has met Russian people who live in the city and she's going out with them this weekend, and going to a rock concert with them next weekend.

When I asked about why she was acting distant towards me, she said it's because being in a new country that's so different is stressful and confusing for her.

She's lying to you about why she's becoming distant to you. If she was stressing being in a new country, she would need to rely on you and become closer, not pushing you away.

Think about it. She distance herself from you yet grow closer to strangers in your city. Doesn't make sense. Actually those people aren't strangers. Either she knew them from the past and since they lived in that city, she chose a man(you) from that city to bring her there so she could be reunited with them OR she made friends with people who speak her language living in her city before arriving to you. Rock concerts are planned months or a year ahead of time. Next weekend she's going. They probably bought the ticket for her before she arrived to you.

Other men have come to this forum and have been used as visa mules by GCGs(Green Card Girls). Some of these ladies got pregnant from other men. Some women, knowing their men aren't marrying them or divorcing them claim domestic violence and get the right to stay in America forever. Their poor man is left with a DV record.

There seems to be no love on her part towards you. Don't fall for the trick when she claims she does love you and plays the part just enough so you will marry her before the 90 days are up. Talk about a return ticket for her since you feel it's not going to work out. Life doesn't have to be this tough. There are much better options for women out there. Women who would actually be happy to live with you.

Be cautious on how you proceed. If things get ugly, let us know. We can give you some tips to stay out of the mud and keep your record clean. If she even accuses you of emotional abuse, think about moving out of the house and cutting off all contact. Emotional abuse can be considered DV.

[Sender]

Alright.  I appreciate your feedback, fathertime and BillyB.  It's given me some things to think about.  Obviously it'd be nice if it worked out, but if she needs to leave, I have to try to think of a good way to do it that won't push her to desperate measures to stay here.

[msmob]

Let me guess.  You were a WOVO guy and there was no intimacy before  the visa process was started.

ML, for GAWD's sake ...  right now, the OP's Q was serious .... surely not the time for WOVO v WMVM?  But as you raised it ... In my experience - 'intimacy' is far more likely to develop in a WOVO

Back on topic: Yes, it's weird behaviour - based on the info we have.   

If you could answer Boethius' questions - she is a lady  - her origins being from the Former Soviet Union - any advice you get might be more relevant

I don't know your nation's immigration laws - you don't say which country you are in ..but I'm assuming certain checks as to the time spend together previously are made ?

I'd write her a letter, showing you are concerned about her behaviour and even mention you simply do not understand her behaviour to the point you have asked for 'non-involved  opinion'.  Send it by email. She may not want to talk - but her reaction might be revealing.

Do not follow my 'advice' unless you feel comfortable and may be judge that of others here....

Do not be angry or confrontational - simply state that you feel her behaviour is not what you would expect a couple - that should be investing time with each other - to judge the suitability of furthering their relationship - should behave. 

If she gets angry - quietly pick up the car keys, leave and seek professional help


 

[LAman]

ML, for GAWD's sake ...  right now, the OP's Q was serious .... surely not the time for WOVO v WMVM?  But as you raised it ... In my experience - 'intimacy' is far more likely to develop in a WOVO

 

If you could answer Boethius' questions - she is a lady  - her origins being from the Former Soviet Union - any advice you get might be more relevant

I don't know your nation's immigration laws - you don't say which country you are in ..but I'm assuming certain checks as to the time spend together previously are made ?

 

He is in California (still?). So Sender......what has happened these past 2 years?????

To be honest, why call it 'weird' behavior. This girl is doing what she wants to do and feels comfortable.
I don't agree with much that BillyB wrote. I doubt this girl planned anything other than do what she feels comfortable with and her 'interests' are elsewhere which means you(sender) were just the means to a change of life. To give an example, a few years back I had a girl stay with me from Moldova( have no idea how she got visa), within a couple days on the internet, she found groups that spoke (Russian or a form of it), and before long she was running everywhere with them. One event had hundreds of FSU(eastern Europe) people....... I had no idea these groups were ever around.

[msmob]

Thanks for letting us know Sender's country,  LAman - DUH - never thought to look at his previous posts !

To me - a genuine Fiancee would not be seeking other's company during her first weekend on a visa based on being a test of suitability.  Hence, WEIRD

[LAman]

Thanks for letting us know Sender's country,  LAman - DUH - never thought to look at his previous posts !

To me - a genuine Fiancee would not be seeking other's company during her first weekend on a visa based on being a test of suitability.  Hence, WEIRD

Who ever said she is a 'genuine' Fiancee????? I just wonder how well Sender knows this girl. Which goes back to Boe's questions.

[jone]

While I'm not saying that I know one iota about this woman, I have read plenty of VAWA stories.  If there is a confrontational discussion, whereby you are trying to understand what is going on, and there is the possibility of deciding the outcome of your future, for God's sake, man, protect yourself.  Record (clandestinely) the conversation so you will be able to confirm that you were not abusive towards this woman.  Men might say that it can't happen to them, but I can tell you .... it CAN.

I know of a woman who planned out the entire scene to get a bruise on her face and claim abuse.  Her daughter knew of her mother's intentions and reported them so as not to allow her to get away with it.

There are actually forums where the women share intentions and experiences to become VAWA Green Card holders. 

Now, as I said, I know nothing about your woman.  But lack of interest - lack of intimacy - the attraction of a Green Card - all are not working in your favor.

[Patagonie]

Your fiancee?
what's this s....t?
fellow, time to kick her ass to the curb right now and protect yourself with any kind of means.

Take care of you.

NB : You go to the FSU.
When she is your GF you then can proceed to pay her a ticket to go to the USA.

GF : someone with whom you have sexual intercourses with.

[BillyB]

, a few years back I had a girl stay with me from Moldova( have no idea how she got visa), within a couple days on the internet, she found groups that spoke (Russian or a form of it), and before long she was running everywhere with them. One event had hundreds of FSU(eastern Europe) people....... I had no idea these groups were ever around.

You may have no idea but a lot of these women who come over here have a good idea how to get here and stay here. They know how to find "friends" and groups you thought didn't exist. When it comes to making their life comfortable, they are way ahead of the men that think they are all the women got.

When my wife came to America the first time, she adapted well and was skeptical of making any friends from the FSU but she relied on me alone during the transition into a new life. After all, she needed to judge my performance before walking down the aisle.

Right now Sender's fiancée is warmer to alleged strangers she never met than he right now. She's ready to go to a rock concert which is like a big party while she tells her fiancé that she's going through culture shock. She's going to have a blast with them. Her bond with them will certainly get stronger.

Regardless is Sender is a really weird guy, her behavior is inexcusable. If she feels he isn't worth marrying, she needs to have a talk with him to break it off and go home. She may be looking to establish her next stop in life while using him as a stepping stone before discarding him.

If she falsely accuses him of a crime that would put him in jail, he needs to immediately find another place to live and cut off unnecessary contact that can be used against him. Unfortunately he is financially responsible for her until she goes home and if he cuts off money and food, she can use that to claim abuse.

If I were in Sender's shoes right now, I would remain kind, plan a night where I look her straight in the eyes, hold her hand, apologize and tell her I can't marry her and is willing to buy her a plane ticket back home and give her some money to reestablish her life. A good woman would understand and wouldn't want to marry a guy who doesn't want her anyway. A bad woman would find a way to make the man's life miserable and full of pain. If you want to find out how ugly people can get, break up with them.

[LAman]

You may have no idea but a lot of these women who come over here have a good idea how to get here and stay here. They know how to find "friends" and groups you thought didn't exist. When it comes to making their life comfortable, they are way ahead of the men that think they are all the women got.

When my wife came to America the first time, she adapted well and was skeptical of making any friends from the FSU but she relied on me alone during the transition into a new life. After all, she needed to judge my performance before walking down the aisle.

Right now Sender's fiancée is warmer to alleged strangers she never met than he right now. She's ready to go to a rock concert which is like a big party while she tells her fiancé that she's going through culture shock. She's going to have a blast with them. Her bond with them will certainly get stronger.

Regardless is Sender is a really weird guy, her behavior is inexcusable. If she feels he isn't worth marrying, she needs to have a talk with him to break it off and go home. She may be looking to establish her next stop in life while using him as a stepping stone before discarding him.

If she falsely accuses him of a crime that would put him in jail, he needs to immediately find another place to live and cut off unnecessary contact that can be used against him. Unfortunately he is financially responsible for her until she goes home and if he cuts off money and food, she can use that to claim abuse.

If I were in Sender's shoes right now, I would remain kind, plan a night where I look her straight in the eyes, hold her hand, apologize and tell her I can't marry her and is willing to buy her a plane ticket back home and give her some money to reestablish her life. A good woman would understand and wouldn't want to marry a guy who doesn't want her anyway. A bad woman would find a way to make the man's life miserable and full of pain. If you want to find out how ugly people can get, break up with them.

BillyB.....I got news for you, the new friends are not 'strangers' as you describe them. Anyone from an area you are from....... there is a closeness that develops quickly.......a bond, I saw it myself. You always seek out others that are like you. In fact, I see it when I go to FSU. How many 'English' speaking places do we recommend to others.... how do we gravitate when we hear someone speaking English? Do we not say.... this or that place speak good English? Hell, I am in heaven when I visit an English speaking club at Gorky Park in Moscow when all these girls besiege you and want to know about America AND speak English very well!!!

[2tallbill]

My fiancee finally arrived from Moscow after months of working on the visa (you know how it is).

She generally is a fairly quiet woman and speaks pretty good English.

It's been exactly one week since she has arrived.  During that time, she has gotten even more quiet towards me, barely talking to me.  She shrugs off any attempts at intimacy.  She talks with her friends and family for hours every day on her phone.  Today, the 7th day here, she announced she has met Russian people who live in the city and she's going out with them this weekend, and going to a rock concert with them next weekend.

When I asked about why she was acting distant towards me, she said it's because being in a new country that's so different is stressful and confusing for her.

Sender,

You didn't talk about how she was before, but it doesn't matter this isn't going
to work. You need to work on getting her back to her home and avoid false DV
charges. Maybe somebody can get Maxx to comment, because I am taking the
family to the zoo in 5 minutes.

I would make sure she has a return ticket and get a hotel room for her.
She will realize her mistake and want to be all lovey dovey but don't fall
for it. Get her out of your house.

When you get her back to her home we can have a complete conversation with
all the ins and outs on how to avoid something like this again in the future.

Udachi!

Bill

[BillyB]

BillyB.....I got news for you, the new friends are not 'strangers' as you describe them. Anyone from an area you are from....... there is a closeness that develops quickly.......a bond, I saw it myself. You always seek out others that are like you.

Isn't that sweet. These girls just seem to know how to find others like them and quickly develop a bond yet they agree to marry a man from a different planet and develop no bond. Go figure.

Sender is getting the silent treatment while his fiancée is eager to party at a rock concert. I doubt these newfound friends are going to pay $60 for her concert ticket unless they knew each other prior to her coming to America or they're men who are looking to get a return off their investment.

[Sender]

Hey guys.  Appreciate the helpful responses.

I'm not going to go into much detail about the history of our relationship, both because I know how some on these forums can nitpick and dissect, but also because I worry if I give too many details, somehow someone she knows will be able to identify me, and that will make my situation even that much worse.  That's a situation I do not want to deal with.  I'm already worried that's already happened.

I will say that she was much more affectionate when I was visiting in Russia, and we were intimate multiple times before getting engaged.  Personally, I wouldn't have proposed until we had been intimate.

It does seem like she's lost interest in me and it's quite possible she's aiming for a green card.  I will say, however, that she doesn't seem to like the U.S.  She frequently points out how Moscow is better than the U.S. (the public transportation, the movie theaters, the food) and right before coming here and leaving Russia, she said she already misses Moscow.  She set the phone I gave her to Russian, she only reads books in Russian, and it seems like she prefers to associate with Russian people (her friends and family, and these new people).  Basically, just from what I'm seeing and hearing, she thinks Russia is better.  Or I guess Moscow, specifically.

While there are these red flags, as my family pointed out, it has only been 7 days.  That's a pretty short time to throw away everything.  Don't get me wrong:  that's what I'm leaning towards, but part of me feels like I should see how another week or two turns out.  After all, we have 90 days.  And she did quit her job and leave her housing situation in order to be with me; that's a pretty big deal.  After making her do that and then forcing her to go back after one week....  that seems like an asshole move on my part.

[jone]

Real quick question: 

Do you know any other WM/FSUW couples here in LA?  Rather than tackle this head on, it might help you out to find someone who has been through this and have the wife talk to your woman and find out what's really up.  I can think of a couple of couples here.  (I am in the South Bay.)  If you want, PM me and I'll try to hook you up. 

But the idea that she's willing to go out on you, without you, to be with her friends in the first week demonstrates complete lack of judgement on her part. 

I honestly am surprised that you didn't set up a couples bonding type relationship to head this off up front.  Some of the guys on here have gone out of their way to make sure that the first few people who walk through that door after their woman arrived were Russian nationals who's job entailed making the transition easier.   

[jone]

Oh, and I'd agree with her.  Public transportation in Moscow is far superior to what we have in Los Angeles.  We didn't have Khrushchev to design it for us!  But we do have Elon Musk!

[fathertime]

While there are these red flags, as my family pointed out, it has only been 7 days.  That's a pretty short time to throw away everything.  Don't get me wrong:  that's what I'm leaning towards, but part of me feels like I should see how another week or two turns out.  After all, we have 90 days.  And she did quit her job and leave her housing situation in order to be with me; that's a pretty big deal.  After making her do that and then forcing her to go back after one week....  that seems like an asshole move on my part.

Personally, given how she has already behaved, I wouldn't give her time to develop connections.  If she does develop connections they will work against you and you will regret giving her time.  If you are lucky she will go on her merry way, if you aren't lucky, she could be a leach on you for a long time. 


If you feel that you are being too big an ass,  send her back with enough money to keep her afloat for a couple months.   Not that you can make her go, she could refuse to leave. 


I'd say in the situation you described you should look out for you.  She came here as your fiance and has given about zero effort in that regard.  That is all you need to see/know.  IMHO


Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

The lack of intimacy is what would concern me.  Someone who has feelings for you, enough that she is willing to leave her life for you, should want to have her hands on you all the time when you are reunited and new in a relationship.  That's why I asked about the age difference and how well you knew each other.

[BillyB]

While there are these red flags, as my family pointed out, it has only been 7 days.  That's a pretty short time to throw away everything.

Some people don't learn of their partner's issues until years down the road. You're blessed to learn of issues in the first week yet want to wait it out and see. Things can get better and the relationship you want can be obtained sooner if you move on immediately. The longer you hold onto a bad situation, the worse the ending will be.

I wouldn't want to be with a woman that rejects me. I would say goodbye and not feel sorry for her. If someday my wife doesn't want to be with me, I'd still be a happy man. Single or married, I'd be happy. There are plenty of women out there that would enjoy being with me.

part of me feels like I should see how another week or two turns out.  After all, we have 90 days. 

Once you or her feel things aren't right for marriage, call it off at that moment. Don't have to wait longer or till the 90 days are up. I'd have the "We aren't right for each other" talk right now unless you got a plan to make her magically love America and you.

  And she did quit her job and leave her housing situation in order to be with me; that's a pretty big deal.  After making her do that and then forcing her to go back after one week....  that seems like an asshole move on my part.

You've dedicated part of your life and finances to bring you two together and she immediately gives you the silent treatment. Sending her home now is smart, it's not being an asshole.

she doesn't seem to like the U.S.  She frequently points out how Moscow is better than the U.S. (the public transportation, the movie theaters, the food) and right before coming here and leaving Russia, she said she already misses Moscow.  She set the phone I gave her to Russian, she only reads books in Russian, and it seems like she prefers to associate with Russian people (her friends and family, and these new people).  Basically, just from what I'm seeing and hearing, she thinks Russia is better.  Or I guess Moscow, specifically.

There are some immigrants that hate this country. Some even want to blow the place up. They want all the benefits and security America provides but hate the culture that built this place into what it is. I usually recommend to guys to get to know your women before marrying them. That includes learning their feelings about the country the men live in. Never marry a woman that is going to hate the home you will bring them to.