Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Experienced => Topic started by: bjorncode12 on April 03, 2018, 07:35:30 PM
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So after having a week with Elena in my house, with my sons, things were in a very dismal state. I wrote her a couple of emails trying to explain my position and she responded with a very veryt long and extremely emotional e-mail. Her biggest concern was:
"The attitude of your children towards me and the joint living with them"
I should digress a bit here and state that before she came to visit me I had decided I was going to get on with my own life and I was going to live the way I saw fit. So I pretty much decided I was not going to live in San Francisco where she wanted to live, and I allowed one of my sons who had just graduated from college to live with me for the year. He had a decent job but could not afford the rent in the bay area where I live. I live in a big house.
And she ended with:
"I left California with the feeling that you betrayed me. Struck out. Like the last from your priority list...you let me go away...
But I want you to know that I really appreciate everything you have done for me. Thank you for your help to me and my family! And was the moments of absolute happiness and love, when were only you and me. Thank you for that.
I really want you be happy too. You deserved it. And only you will decide - to let happiness into your life or put the block...
I'm very tired of stresses. If you are ready for certain actions from your side - let me know. The situation that is happening now, can't continue any more. This pain is destroying me. I want to close my eyes, fall asleep, and when to wake up, to understand that it was a dream. Cuddle up to you and feel your warmth....
But if you let me go from your life, please do not worry me - don't write or call me any more. It's too painful to continue in this way. I will need to find the strength to build my further life...
I love you, my genius....
Elena"
So after this we did not communicate much, sent a few very heated texts. i was distraught and thinking about her all the time.
Then, one day she calls me and says, "come to me now" . And she meant it.
The background here is that I had been thinking of her every day, and I knew that I loved her very deeply.
I talked to my mother because she is the only person I can really talk to about things like this. I have a lot of great friends who are men, but you know how men are, they just do not relate in the same way. My mother told me I must go.
So this was going through my mind for weeks and so one day I just decided that I was going to see her. To be honest it was almost like flipping a coin. I was completely confused. But I rationalized it by telling myself that it could not end like this. In my mind, I felt responsible for not communicating my needs and interests clearly and having a grownup conversation with her. After all, she wanted me to be a man, and there was definitely something to this.
So I flew to Riga and met her. We spent a very intense weekend together and we both cried a lot and had hot sex and it was not easy but we were together again.
We started talking again daily and then one day she proposed that we go skiing together. I love to ski, and I wanted to teach her to ski and I signed on for this immediately. We made a plan for her to come to California and we would go skiing for a week.
Then she said she wanted to go to Aruba for our anniversary. I kind of liked that idea, and I said great, let's do it. So I started to make the reservation and it became clear that she wanted to stay at one of the five star hotels. I protested a bit but she was determined and she called the hotel and got a better rate.
At this point I was starting to feel like I had been walked over a bit and I checked the bank card I had given to Elena. She had withdrawn 2X over what I told her I was good for in the last month. This card was always an issue. She complained there was never money in the account and she stated that I was always manipulating her by not making a deposit, something that did not seem correct to me, but there may have been something to it.
So I called her on this and she became very defensive and angry and told me that her family needed more than the $400 a month I had been giving her.
The next night I woke up at 200 AM in a sweat unable to sleep. I realized I could not do this. So I sent her a text telling her I needed to take a break.
That was on November 1st. I have never heard from her since.
To be honest, I deeply regret what I did. I wish I had been man enough to address this with her forthrightly and directly and tell her that she was being greedy but I did not. So I will live with this, and i will take this lesson and I will try to learn from it.
What I do find fascinating is that I did kind of know this all along and with some women i can do behave this way, but for some reason with her, I could not. I don't completely understand it.
Now I believe that she now has a new man in her life.
It is a rebound relationship. Before me she had ever had a serious relationship since her marriage ended 16 year ago, and she had not dated for 4 years.
It is what it is and in a way I am glad that she was pushed to a rebound relationship. There was so much more depth to what she and I shared.
In case you are wondering I am moving on with my life. My current relationship is just as interesting but it is not with a Russian woman so it would have to be another forum.
Thanks for listening.
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Interesting story. Thanks for sharing. I feel some of your pain. Money issues are a bitch.
Time does heal.
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Bjorn, your lady sounds quite a lot like the last girl I was with, basically manipulative and out for what she can get. However, likewise I think in both are cases the women were not necessarily out to dupe us from the get go nor felt nothing for us. I think that they became ruled by their emotions and bad behaviours that surfaced. Its quite possibly that handled differently by sticking to a more down to earth lifestyle these women might not turn into the relationship issue they become. I think it sounds way to far gone in your instance to recover this relationship, as I think it would entail her accepting giving up five star hotels, money allowance, etc which I think she would now refuse to accept point blank in any offer to restart the relationship. Moving on sounds a good idea.
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At this point I was starting to feel like I had been walked over a bit and I checked the bank card I had given to Elena. She had withdrawn 2X over what I told her I was good for in the last month. This card was always an issue. She complained there was never money in the account and she stated that I was always manipulating her by not making a deposit, something that did not seem correct to me, but there may have been something to it.
So I called her on this and she became very defensive and angry and told me that her family needed more than the $400 a month I had been giving her.
You told her what you can offer her in the relationship. She accepted the relationship, what you offered and took the bank card. She's old enough to understand numbers and without your blessing, withdrew more than you told her you can give. It's best you learn she will deceive you sooner than later.
There have been guys who came to this forum and said they had hot sex with their women all the way up to the honeymoon. It was downhill after that.
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Sorry, ( and I have done some DAFTer things re a break up.)..but posting her private letter to you..... TACKY...
Why do you feel the need to post this detail?
You couldn't agree re money ( budgets)...it's common in many marriages...not just one's with FSU women.
Many FSU wives are wise and careful with the family budget.
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Sorry, ( and I have done some DAFTer things re a break up.)..but posting her private letter to you..... TACKY...
Why do you feel the need to post this detail?
You couldn't agree re money ( budgets)...it's common in many marriages...not just one's with FSU women.
Many FSU wives are wise and careful with the family budget.
I disagree Mobers, the letter helps give forum members the best possible picture of the personality OP is dealing with here, without it its is just his description of her and he may see here a different way to the rest of us, blinded by her, etc, or merely not a good description.
To me from the letter it sounds like she is jerking him around and trying to play on his feelings. She accuses him of betraying her, then thanks him for what he has done, then tells him she was happy with him but only just them together, then lays the ultimatum on him on terms for getting back together, then finishes by complimenting him, lol.
To me this letter looks like a letter she put a lot of thought in crafting with the intention of gaining sole dominance over the relationship. She is both saying how wonderful they were together and wanting to get back with him, BUT only under her terms the upshot being with her fully in control. I think she is trying to be very manipulative and out to grasp far more than she should, she wants it all, she wants to be in control so OP is just her pawn to do her bidding. Personally I think OP should run and not touch her again even with a very long barge pole. Her personality such as it is will always be a cause for trouble, pain & upset.
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Sorry, ( and I have done some DAFTer things re a break up.)..but posting her private letter to you..... TACKY...
Why do you feel the need to post this detail?
You ain't the moral police dude. your track record leaves much to be desired. No one except him knows who his lady is. Why are you so concerned now.
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Just out of a curious notion, what leads you to believe she has another man in her life?
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c поганой овцы хоть шерсти клок
She had already made up her mind by the time of the trip.
She also should have thought about why the son didn't respect her.
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You ain't the moral police dude. your track record leaves much to be desired. No one except him knows who his lady is. Why are you so concerned now.
My 'track record' ?
Trolling again.?
I was posting from experience and being wiser after stupidity.
There are certain folks who find pleasure in trying to research folks off board lives. Even trying to find the other partner and inviting them to comment. ..
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After reading the comments in the letter again, I feel compelled to comment on the state of mind of the RW. In the US, I have witnessed, again and again, women who are easily distracted in dating a man and vice versa. We are distracted by work, by families, by social influences and by obligations of our own making. To succeed, especially if a marriage is not your first, it is important to put all of that aside. All of those things must be secondary to the commitment you make to your spouse.
An FSU woman, by nature, has to leave everything she has known to come to the US. Perhaps she is bringing a child with her, perhaps not. But, nonetheless, she is committed to this new lifestyle and the only thing supporting her is her relationship with 'her man'. She has no other tether point.
To not honor that commitment, through distraction or inaction, or even a lack of understanding on the part of the man is reason for failure of the relationship.
I see this letter, from the woman, as a plea to be 'her man'. And, absent that, she cannot go on. I have read many perspectives from many men on this forum in my time here. Very few of them (I can count on one hand) demonstrate this level of commitment demanded by an FSU woman at the time she comes to her new country. And I feel that this commitment, above all else, is the only true way that a marriage succeeds.
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Here is her state of mind..
Man pays to help her family, that too before marriage. Man agrees to let her daughter live in his home but can't let his sons live in his home or even stay when visiting. Man takes her on luxury trips. Man must put her up in 5-star hotel. She must live in a filthy expensive city.
I must be missing all the good points about her character which make her a great catch.
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Here is her state of mind..
Man pays to help her family, that too before marriage. Man agrees to let her daughter live in his home but can't let his sons live in his home or even stay when visiting. Man takes her on luxury trips. Man must put her up in 5-star hotel. She must live in a filthy expensive city.
I must be missing all the good points about her character which make her a great catch.
:applause:
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What are the odds that were he to fish again in the FSU for a woman he might find one that is less demanding on the material front and less ridged with how she sees the relationship developing?
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bjorncode12,
please don’t take my comments in a negative way, but you should understand that Russian women are not gentle creatures, they are savage and beautiful ...
if you can handle it...
however, if you have any emotional vulnerability, a Russian woman will spot it immediately and if she needs to will hammer it to pieces until it(you!) breaks...
In Russia, no one relies on the kindness of strangers (ever!)
and there’s a reason for that...
m'man! you need to "wise-up", I infer you were once married for a long time and are new to the dating scene
so I'd take things a little slower, calm down, and START THINKING ABOUT WHAT YOU'RE DOING instead of wallowing in self pity(there, there, you'll be OK!) .....
it's all about balance, make sure what you give matches what you receive, do that, and all will be in harmony
bottom line: driving a relationship is a lot like driving a car, you have to learn how to steer it in the direction you want it to go, and you have to learn how to make it go faster, and make it slow down, and sometimes, you may have to put it in park and turn off the ignition.
but you are the driver, so act like it!!!
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Krimster, what have your comments got to do with helping this man ?
He has told us his story, he knows the mistakes he made, and now he has moved on to a non-Russian woman.
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I'm a "big picture" kinda guy ML, you can choose to focus on the details if that works better for you,
but I think this brother needs WAY more help than just advising him which wine to select for dinner...
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Here is her state of mind..
Man pays to help her family, that too before marriage. Man agrees to let her daughter live in his home but can't let his sons live in his home or even stay when visiting. Man takes her on luxury trips. Man must put her up in 5-star hotel. She must live in a filthy expensive city.
I must be missing all the good points about her character which make her a great catch.
Yeah it seems like she used him more for money, making all these demands. He probably was smitten a bit too much with her to acquiesce to these things.
She didn't seem very grateful for what he already did for her.
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Sting23,
a russian woman controlling, using and dumping a western man is not new, this has happened to several guys on this board. but when a gold digger comes HERE to hunt, that’s a new development...
everyone sees the part of this they want to see, there are certainly aspects of Elena that created this problem, but the OP also I believe, made the problem worse by his classic co-dependent behavior which he has not acknowledged, in actuality, I don’t think he’s “moved on”, but still stuck in his co-dependency
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A few comments, and then I am through.
To this question of was Elena in love with me and whether or not people in love see negative personality aspects of their love objects I must state categorically that love is not that simple. There is no question that love is far more complicated than we imagine.
I think the best way to make this point is that I will never forget the day I went back to the airport after my first weekend with Elena in Riga. Elena accompanied me in the taxi and she slumped onto my lap, and held my hand and she was exhausted and limp and it was because of her childhood and the trauma she had recently witnessed and the extreme difficulty of her life beginnning at the age of 16 and she loved me in a way that I have never been loved before and never will be loved again and I know this for sure.
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So I would like to thank all of you for your comments. No need to argue about who is right and who is wrong, you were all helpful to me.
I have learned a lot about myself and about Elena and most importantly about Russian women.
Have more to say about that in a bit.
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Sting23,
a russian woman controlling, using and dumping a western man is not new, this has happened to several guys on this board. but when a gold digger comes HERE to hunt, that’s a new development...
everyone sees the part of this they want to see, there are certainly aspects of Elena that created this problem, but the OP also I believe, made the problem worse by his classic co-dependent behavior which he has not acknowledged, in actuality, I don’t think he’s “moved on”, but still stuck in his co-dependency
krimster, I'm not following you. What do you mean come HERE to hunt, are you referring to the lady going to America to specifically find a guy? OP did say her best friend is married to his brother-in law. Maybe she was just visiting them.
Well only the OP and his lady knows the dynamics of the relationship.
bjorn if you feel so strongly maybe you need to contact her again. Just make it clear there will be no financial support, then see how she reacts.
When I was in Moscow most girls I dated weren't about the money. They had jobs and could support themselves. If they see you are generous with your money and not cheap with them, they will reciprocate. Some have even paid for my dinners on dates. But I'm in a younger age range and the people I meet would be probably different from what the typical guy here encounters.
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bjorn if you feel so strongly maybe you need to contact her again. Just make it clear there will be no financial support, then see how she reacts.
I very much doubt she will be accepting at all, she will hold onto her beliefs about wanting/needing this or that and won't be argued out of it.
I say this because the last girl I was with was sounds very much the same. I mishandled the situation by paying for stuff when I should have said no or quit the short-lived relationship even sooner. I ask myself the question was my last girl a scammer? the answer I believe is not really but I think she possessed so bad character traits (basically manipulative & materialistic) which to some might have difficulty as seeing her as separate from a scammer. I unwittingly fed those bad character traits and it became a problem in our relationship. I think likewise Bjorn may have a woman who is not necessarily a gold-digger or scammer but exhibits bad ways akin to gold-diggers/scammers without actually necessarily being one. Again he messed up big time by paying for a lot of stuff and I think it has gone far past the point of being able to recover the relationship. Its now ingrained in her that he's good for this or that whatever he says and can be taken for it - is stupid enough to pay for it (no offence intended Bjorn just the way she would view it I think).
I think it is probably true that Bjorn wants back with Elena, if I'm honest there's times I want back with the last girl I was with (even with all the issues, lol). Unlike scammers/gold-diggers there were real feelings of love I believe that were shared. There was also distrust I believe on both sides and that did a lot of damage to those feelings of love, particularly as time went on. I think I know though that if I got back with her the relationship would unlikely improve - she will always see me as stupid enough to pay for all that she desires. Likewise I don't think Bjorn's relationship with Elena would improve at all, she would still carry on in the same way, she had it the way she likes so will carry on like that. Those type of women just don't realise when enough is enough, when they are destroying their relationship with those they probably love/have feelings for and that their actions are causing the guy to question whether she does love him at all - or as 2tallbill says the wheels are turning but the relationship is going nowhere because the relationship will never improve/be a relationship to be able to live with, but time is still passing by.
Basically, these women just become to unwieldy to be in a relationship with so I think Bjorn is really going to have to move on from Elena and never return for his own good.
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So why am I even on this website? Well, it is because Elena affected me more deeply than I have ever been affected in my life by a woman, except, of course, my mother. I am 59 years old, well in control of all other aspects of my life, financially successful, great kids, on my game in all respects, no problem finding women to date and who desire me. But I was turned upside down by the 18 months from when we met until we broke up and it continues to turn me upside down 5 months later. Beware, this can happen to you too. I never imagined this happening.
I do think it is not completely black and white. It has to do with who Elena is as an individual but it also has to do with her Russian ness. The Russian ness part of the story is interesting to you, and so I will continue for a bit.
I have some conclusions about Elena's Russian ness, even though indeed Elena herself told me at the beginning of our relationship that we were just people and we needed to respect that and our culture was secondary. That was not exactly true. Like most things in life the truth gets blurry whe you go deep but I will stick with the Russian ness part because that is what you want to hear and it is important to understand it.
The Russian parts of this are that Elena was the most loyal woman I have ever met. Every night I would call her and she would be waiting for my call. She cared deeply about my health and well being, she was very concerned, almost paranoid that something untoward would happen to me.
She believed in a man's role as a man, and the man should take the lead and be assertive and confident. She wanted to be protected and nurtured and family was extremely important to her. I liked being a man and this attracted me to her.
She was clearly going to stand by me forever. She believed deeply in romantic love and honored her feelings and emotions over her rational side. She wanted to be loved and be possessed in a sense. I think that this is more common for women and it is especially true for Russian women.
She was very very beautiful.
The problems came from a different angle. I think Krimster was right when he observed that a russian woman is highly protective of her family, not such much the family of her new foreign spouse, at least not my sons. Elena saw my sons as a threat.
Elena grew up under very difficult circumstances, barely surviving perestroika, and like many russian people is scrappy and has had to do what it takes to survive. This translated into a kind of rigidity and lack of understanding of my background and culture, which is a bit privileged, entrepreneurial and laid back, being from California. She didn't understand me.
I did have my share of difficulties in life and I had an unhappy childhood in many ways but this mapped onto Elena in the sense that I was deeply attached to her as a rescue fantasy.
Elena was reasonably talented and capable and she had leveraged this into a middle class life through her own efforts. She was making maybe $2000 a month. This was close enough to people who made a lot of money that she was aware of affluence and designer clothes and high end resorts. People tend to be highly aware of those that are close to them in social status and resentful and envious. Elena was definitely effected by this, she wanted the very best maybe because it was just out of her reach.
Elena was not educated, so she had no idea of the the life of the mind. She was attracted to my intellectual bent, but in the end she thought I was always thinking to much. This was not good because it was connected to the last problem and in a way the most serious.
Krimster said something that really resonated with me. Russians do not show emotion, except for anger. Elena was an emotional creature and she kept it all in, except when she was unhappy, and then she would get angry and this was not pleasant. Later on I did realize that this was an expression of how much she cared for me, but I was tired of dealing with anger, I had dealt with too much of that in my first marriage. I had a dream that we could sit and spill our guts and talk rationally and it would all come together (and I have since discovered that there are women who actually do this).
Someone else pointed out that foreign women are extremely vulnerable when they give up their life to live with a man in a foreign country, and there is no question that this is true. The consequence of this is that it makes them more emotional and they can be less likely to be understanding and easy going. Their life is at stake and they react with heightened sensitivity.
I had a suspicion that if I could just man up, be clear and strong with her that I could put her in her place and deal with this, and in fact I am certain this was what she wanted. But I also realized that I would probably be doing this for this rest of my life, and that just seemed exhausting.
So, in conclusion, those of you that still are interested in a Russian woman I say more power to you. You will never meet another woman with such intense passion and love. But you will have to have both feet planted firmly on the ground and you will have to be strong because it will be a rocky ride at times.
Like most things in life, the story is not simple. Some of you want to paint Elena as greedy and manipulative but I am sure she didn't see herself this way, and I didn't either. She was simply trying to put together a future with more potential and I understood this.
We delude ourselves sometimes when we ascribe evil intent to others. They are merely acting on their instincts and if they are not self aware, they do not fully comprehend their actions, and like all of us, they fancy themselves as having beneficent intent.
As for myself, I am still trying to figure out how this could have happened to me. I do have an explanation, grounded in psychology, science, and I think it is correct from that perspective, but in some ways I cannot get past the Russian idea of being emotional creatures. This we all are.
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I didnt mean to imply that we always delude ourselves when we ascribe evil intent to others. There is evil in the world.
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bjorncode12
I have not commented much in thread and I have found your story & conclusions and observations very interesting. On the forum Krimster & I have had our differences -- but his observations here were equally interesting -- and I think thought provoking for you.
There is much in your story that I can relate to .
I do not want to sound critical -- but the incident with your adult son's was entirely predictable .Some will say she should have reacted differently -- but --maybe being more sensitive to her potential feelings would have delayed that interaction until you as a couple were more integrated? That sort of thing could happen to a local lady and get a similar reaction too -- I think !!
Older children should be easier -- but all too often they can be a deal breaker!
The problem with being over 16 and love -- is that life accumulates many complications ! The compromises needed to let love run the show often have unacceptable riders to them -- as you have found.
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I had a suspicion that if I could just man up, be clear and strong with her that I could put her in her place and deal with this, and in fact I am certain this was what she wanted. But I also realized that I would probably be doing this for this rest of my life, and that just seemed exhausting.
Don't be so sure about this and certainly don't beat yourself up over it. I've had the same thought in relationships with RW and almost every time I "manned up" it backfired completely. If she's a strong, independent woman who hasn't had a man in her life for a considerable amount of time she won't be very willing to give in. Many, if not most, of these women would rather be single than lose their independence or change in any significant way.
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The problems came from a different angle. I think Krimster was right when he observed that a russian woman is highly protective of her family, not such much the family of her new foreign spouse, at least not my sons. Elena saw my sons as a threat.
In my opinion, you dodged a bullet, I don't think you realize it yet, and maybe never will. What would have likely been sacrificed would have been much greater than you may realize.
Fathertime!
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"probably be doing this for this rest of my life, and that just seemed exhausting."
it is....
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The story seems to be typical. The relationship with this woman was doomed from the start. Well, that's a problem when a woman is beautiful, а man tends to close eyes on other her fundamental character traits.
Style of Elena's writings tells me she is kind of professional in communicating with men, and plays emotional games on the edge to be manipulative. Her attitude to money spending was just a final chord though here she was really sincere.
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Unfortunately that’s why you embrace evil. Growing up I’ve learned that heroes don’t win in the real world..it’s the villains that do. Hence why I have no friends and why I don’t want any. They are my competition. We’re told that the nice guy gets the girl by being sweet. From what I seen all these nice men coming to the former Soviet Union are get screwed over from these women because they don’t understand the real dynamics and what makes these women tick. The “strong man” to them is the same thing that women seek everywhere on the planet except the difference between western women and FSU women is they need men still. Our culture protects women and they have nothing to lose. An FSU woman has everything to lose in their culture. Our women are in competition with us. FSU women aren’t in competition with their man. They support them and want them to succeed. Our women get jealous of us if we do better then them. An FSU woman would have love in their eyes if something happens good to you because it benefits both of you. In our culture the man in always wrong...an FSU woman that is in love with you will find ways even if your wrong to be right..but trust me...these women are not only drop dad gorgeous...they are incredibly strong in their personality. A good is example is the Disney test...you could show a few Disney movies to a western girl and they would be in tears for the rest of the day...try showing a few to an FSU woman and they will just tell you that it was a good story and go back to the kitchen to start hammering on chicken cutlets... no emotional effect at all. Why is that.. the answer I got was it’s because it’s not real. It’s a fairytale. Fascinating...in our culture the princess marries the prince and they live happily ever after...not in the FSU. The guy they end up with is karlson(most people won’t know who that is unless you been to the FSU). People from the FSU are my favourite though. In my culture I hate when I’m getting gas and some old guy asks me how my day is going and how it’s a beautiful sunny day. In the FSU you talk to a stranger your insane and most likely want something from them. Ask a cashier how’s her day going and she’ll say..it’s my business...what a good laugh that is...my favourite though is how when you get almost to any door and most civilized people will hold the door for you..not FSU people...they let the door slam in everyone’s face...I love it though but it gets me in trouble in Canada because I get used to doing it in the FSU but over here it’s nothing but death stares and I’m somehow a prick. One thing that FSU women found far more attractive in me then my other Canadian competition back in the day when I was searching was FSU women wondered how come I don’t say sorry...they thought that’s what Canadians say when they do or say something wrong...I said that I don’t apologize if I mean something and someone doesn’t like it....they would tell me saying sorry is weak...I was like..dam straight it is...so there you have it lads...
Women in the FSU want a good man which basically means a guy that doesn’t beat them or cheat as far as I’m concerned. When I was first getting to know my wife i said in the introductory phase..I don’t do dishes, I don’t do laundry, I will not cook or any of that girly stuff. She replied..what would be the point of having a wife if they don’t do those things...I said good answer..you want to lose respect fast then do all the mentioned above and watch her long for Vladimir that sits in front of the tv and watches soccer and insults her cooking and says that the soup isn’t salty enough. Sure you can be funny, cool, and act all loving and stuff but never forget who your with. Someone mentioned that a woman is like a car and if you let go of the wheel, the car will go towards the ditch and crash so you always have to be in control. I absolutely agree. I’m in control 24/7 365 days a year. When I’m with my wife if i want her hair a certain way..she does it instantly..certain outfit on that day..she jumps in it..if I’m hungry..yep..she’s in the kitchen. I want to go to the pub late and drink some beers..she gets dressed and comes with me even though she might be tired..so what..I’m not...tough sh*t. The point is that these women love a man that leads. The best compliment you can get from them is “you always get your way”...I just say it’s because I deserve it. I take care of her..she better dam well take care of me in all my ways. I once read something that drew me towards the FSU woman and it was this saying”you better be able to handle an FSU woman or they will wreck your sh*t”. I love that saying because that’s until they meet me...in their culture hitting is still a thing..you can go to the local ATB and see a cashier with a black eye and I say to my wife..looks like that chick pissed off her husband last night. To our culture she would get help..in their culture it’s ignored because it’s their business... I would never hit a woman but a good compliment my brother gave me was that he’d rather take a punch in the face from me then what comes out of my mouth...I can be vile. Women’s highest stimuli isn’t from violence..it’s through emotion.. something I know how to bulldoze through. If your a man that walks away from an arguemet then to a FSU woman means your weak...know how to put her in her place and she’ll learn respect fast and love you more for it. I was watching this Turkish serial with my wife called mama and every person hates the villain character in it...I tended to enjoy his role. My wife couldn’t understand how I could like such an evil character. He has destroyed his wife’s self esteem and treats her like garbage. I said sure he’s a little over the top...he doesn’t have to hit a woman to get the same results. My wife then looked at me and said I’m glad your not like that...I laughed and said..how do you know I’m not..then she snuggled up to my chest and said..because...I said most girls that keep going back to men like that don’t realize they are with a garbage man because he’s leveled their self esteem..was I correct..absolutely. Now don’t get me wrong...I’m incredible good to my wife but she does know her place. Look at the FSU culture...for instance...my wife’s dad could be talking to me and his wife by mistake cuts into our conversation and he’ll give a quick death stare at his wife and say” don’t interrupt me”... she backs off quickly.. my wife was at the hospital for a checkout and I went with her and she was asking questions and to the doctor and his body language shifted to look like he got annoyed with her and I asked her later what he said and she told me that he said stop asking stupid questions...I was like what..I said if you told me that...I would have punched him in the mouth and he’d be alright because we were in the right spot for him to get help...the hospital...she said that’s why I didn’t tell you. This culture is male dominated by their personality...an FSU girl would be with their men I’d their men had ambition and drive and a sense of fun. These girls are bored with their men and get disappointed by not giving them a good life...we have all the advantages that they don’t though...when I go to their country..I think I’m the best thing walking those streets and I act like it...that’s why I’ve done incredibly well.
I know this looks like rubbish to most of you guys and sure it looks harsh but that’s like telling people you married an FSU girl to a westerner and they say...why would you need to do that because the women are better over here...blind fools. Western women are garbage and that’s a fact...FSU all the way...my ways may look primitive and cutthroat and this isn’t a dig but I’m still married and my wife is crazy about me...that won’t change anytime soon...take what you will from this...there is gold in it. Bjorn...you seem like a nice guy that reverted to our upbringing from our culture...but this woman did you a favor. Women wonder why men become pricks...we are their creation. If you’ve ever lost it all to a girl...trust me...you’ll become what they really want. A villain.
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bjorncode12,
gratitude for your kind acknowledgment ...
“I did have my share of difficulties in life and I had an unhappy childhood in many ways but this mapped onto Elena in the sense that I was deeply attached to her as a rescue fantasy.”
PS, expecting a Russian to rescue you, would be like expecting the hangman to perform Chiropracty, i.e. not reasonable, come to think of it, the only person who can rescue you, is actually just you, life preservers are on sale on Travelocity...
the rescue fantasy was 100% in your head, I can assure you there was something else entirely in hers...
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Her attitude to money spending was just a final chord though here she was really sincere.
Yes, and if she was making $2000 a month, she was making about 3X more than the average salary in Riga, yet still needed a $400 a month supplement.
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After reading the comments in the letter again, I feel compelled to comment on the state of mind of the RW. In the US, I have witnessed, again and again, women who are easily distracted in dating a man and vice versa. We are distracted by work, by families, by social influences and by obligations of our own making. To succeed, especially if a marriage is not your first, it is important to put all of that aside. All of those things must be secondary to the commitment you make to your spouse.
An FSU woman, by nature, has to leave everything she has known to come to the US. Perhaps she is bringing a child with her, perhaps not. But, nonetheless, she is committed to this new lifestyle and the only thing supporting her is her relationship with 'her man'. She has no other tether point.
To not honor that commitment, through distraction or inaction, or even a lack of understanding on the part of the man is reason for failure of the relationship.
I see this letter, from the woman, as a plea to be 'her man'. And, absent that, she cannot go on. I have read many perspectives from many men on this forum in my time here. Very few of them (I can count on one hand) demonstrate this level of commitment demanded by an FSU woman at the time she comes to her new country. And I feel that this commitment, above all else, is the only true way that a marriage succeeds.
Well stated. WM seem to expect her to do most of the adapting, and figure it out by herself, while we go back to our normal busy routines.
The amount of weekly hours worked in our respective cultures is often very different. We see 40 hours plus a few more overtime as normal. She is wondering why we work so much with no time for her or family.
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Krimster when I said "rescue fantasy" I was alluding to the fact that she was my rescue fantasy. I have never been in need of rescuing.
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We all have a dark side, it runs in our shadow, that part of ourself that rears its head without warning. It is something to be acknowledged and it gives us strength provided we are able to understand it and manage it and apply some opprobrium to the baser aspects of its nature. Once your understand this, it becomes an asset.
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We share cooking depending on who is home at the time for meal prep, or who is freer at the moment. We also enjoy cooking together, one of my "interests" and she is also good at it, and I don't expect her to do all the housework, and have a career. But we haven't divided up tasks on some formal basis. We both have careers and seem to do what needs to be done to run a household.
Earlier today I started laundry because I had time and she was with a client. Likely she will finish it later, but nobody is keeping score. I even loaded and started the dishwasher yesterday. She must have come along later and completed the task because the dishes seem to be resting comfortably in cabinets at this moment.
She makes tea and I make the coffee. Not that we made a decision to divide chores because she likes to bustle around the kitchen in the morning, but frankly she tends to use a whole can of coffee to make 4 cups and then can't seem to understand why it is so strong. Coffee was not a part of Soviet/Russian culture in her childhood so I have taken over the coffee making task.
I have one hard and fast rule: my wife is not a garbage woman. Those with experience in Soviet times will understand this. She can set it out for me to complete the task, but unless I am traveling and away from home, in our home I have decreed that the man takes out garbage. Period. End of story.
We've only been at this for two decades, so I guess the jury is still out on how it will all play out.....
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That is more my style. I always shared household tasks with my ex, but she was working full time.
It just seemed sensible and like the right thing to do.
But if I were to marry a FSU woman and she was not working it would be logical for her to pick up most of the household work.
But Elena was pretty clear that she was not found of household chores. She was a princess through and through.
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the great philosopher Clint Eastwood once said, “I reckon there’s some bad in all good men, and some good in all bad men” “and "sometimes we do for others what we secretly hope they will do for us” in other words, things are seldom black and white in the real world unless you’re Ted Cruz!
he also said “go ahead make my day”
sorry for my misinterpreting, my bad, but this way is even worse, plays totally into the rich American/Poor Russian narrative which guarantees a struggle over money in your relationship
in addition to the money it sounds a lot like 2 people who each have problems communicating past their own emotions, multiplied by a major cultural barrier, oh yeah, plus she’s a manipulative gold digger = what you wen through
obviously, the equation for this relationship does not balance...
there, but for the grace of God, go us all...
how 'bout a story?
ya want a story?
OK...
Krimster’s Erotic Tales of Crimea
Chapter I The Three Sisters
Once upon a time there were three Tatarii girls who lived in an old dilapidated house in a small village about a 45 minute drive north of Sevastopol. Although they all looked very similar to each other and addressed each other as “sister” they weren’t actually sisters, but 2nd cousins, they all 3 appeared to be in their early 20's and were very beautiful with long dark hair and gray eyes.
The unique thing about the sisters was their profession.
They were (among other things!) drug dealers!
Through a network of family connections, the sisters ended up controlling 4 hecters of field that was supposed to belong to their family for the purpose of growing fodder for cattle. Instead the sisters dedicated it to the purpose of growing the finest marijuana ever grown in Crimea, thanks to an American helper who smuggled in seeds from Amsterdam.
On one particular visit, their American was bringing them a new batch of AK47 seeds concealed in his sports jacket in a specially sealed envelope.
He made the long drive in his ‘67 racing green Triumph convertible, up the mountains and down the valley, passing ancient rock monasteries and the remains of ancient dead civilizations that came and went like the wind.
He turned down a narrow road that didn’t appear to be used too often which was only partially paved in sections until he came to the house of the 3 sisters.
He extracted his tall muscular frame out of the small English racing car, grabbed his luggage and slowly walked towards the front door.
to be continued next week, but first a word from our Sponsor!
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well this thread sure took a weird turn with Boomstick talking about who knows what and Krimster going all "you feel lucky punk" on us.
what the hell does that 3 sisters story have to do with anythine I got no idea. But if you're gonna write something at least finish the damn story.
Anyways back to bjorncode. Yeah the rescue fantasy usually never works out. Plus the way she behaves is not typical of all Russian women. Truthfully she is a total gold digger. Asking for money, expecting 5 star hotels and all that... It sounds like you haven't met many Russian women. They do expect you to pay for a date, dinner but to hear guys buying all sorts of stuff is ridiculous. Just say no.
The other part about Russians showing no emotion isn't all that correct either. Sure Russians can display anger in a rather bold way but they are just people like everyone. You can tell when they are happy, sad..the whole gamut. Asians in general are probably much more reserved as a culture than Russians.
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i have started dating an asian woman. She was born overseas but has lived in the U.S. for a while.
She is far less tempermental and emotional. Very even keeled and calm. I guess you would say she is a conflict avoider like me. This has it's own set of problems which are quite different from wearing your heart on your sleeve, but far easier for me.
She also has her own money and career interests so the rescue thing is not on the table. And she has kids of her own and is understanding and supportive of my kids.
Overall, one would think a much better match. But there is that love thing. My feelings for Elena are stronger to this day, 5 months since I have to heard or seen a word from her.
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Overall, one would think a much better match. But there is that love thing. My feelings for Elena are stronger to this day, 5 months since I have to heard or seen a word from her.
Well there's only 2 options. Block her out completely or contact her again and see if you can start things up again. Sounds like you haven't let go at all even with a new woman in your life. You might regret it down the line if you didn't try once more. But know your boundaries regarding money and don't budge. If she doesn't agree to it then you'll know it played a bigger factor than you realized.
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Sometimes, a person is addicted to someone who is not good for them, be it a particular person or a type.
Note in particular, what the sole FSUM here posted.
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Sometimes, a person is addicted to someone who is not good for them, be it a particular person or a type.
Note in particular, what the sole FSUM here posted.
well if you read his last post he's going out with an Asian woman who's the complete opposite of his Russian woman. His problem wasn't the type of woman, it was letting that Russian take advantage of his money and play him like a fiddle.
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Elena still occupies space in his head and therefore, in his life. That’s unfair to the woman he is currently with, if the relationship is serious.
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You might regret it down the line if you didn't try once more.
That would be a stupid thing to do.
He did already try 'once more.'
The next time he tries, she will be even more convinced that she can lead him around like an animal with a ring in his nose.
Trying twice is enough for any couple. Three tries is absurd.
I think this gal is even more proof that most of we guys should not be trying to have a relationship with gals who are 9s or 10s. It's just too distracting and messes with our minds.
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I think this gal is even more proof that most of we guys should not be trying to have a relationship with gals who are 9s or 10s. It's just too distracting and messes with our minds.
If a guys have relationships with women who are 1s and 2s, it's distracting and messes with their minds too.
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If a guys have relationships with women who are 1s and 2s, it's distracting and messes with their minds too.
That's what paper bags are for.
I once knew a woman who was so ugly, her dog put paper bag over his head when he humped her leg.
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This is an interesting topic and I'm going away on a tangent with some of this. In my limited experience with fsuw, I can see you can't generalise them all with the same personality.
Broomsticks wife is almost the opposite of the woman I'm conversing with, in some respects. It may have a fair bit to do with her past marriage. One of her greatest wishes is to have a husband who shares the domestic chores, in an equal relationship. She has a passion for cooking and has said several times she would love to cook together.
She had a husband who dominated her life. She did everything re - domestic duties, raising the children etc... and he never lifted a finger to help. He spent his time with his friends drinking, cheating and rarely involved her in his life. She felt taken advantage of, incredibly lonely and has stated she will never return to a relationship that's not an equal partnership in all aspects of the marriage. She's not looking for a man who behaves like like the usual stereotype of a Russian husband.
I raise my children with very little support from my ex. I cook, clean, iron, help with kids homework and do everything traditionally a mother and wife would do. This is what she finds most attractive . The added bonus is I rarely drink alcohol, which is a big red flag for her.
You can still be a strong man and also not conform to typical gender roles. I'm not the typical suburban metrosexual house husband. I'm a bit of an adrenalin junky, I race cars, ride bareback broncs, shoot and surf among other outdoor activities, so I still come across as a mans man. My philosophy is be a man, don't get walked over, but don't take advantage and do everything to make a partner feel appreciated.
It doesn't hurt to make an effort occasionally as 70 % of divorces are initiated by women in western society and the main cause according to women, is their husbands are lazy and they don't feel appreciated or feel he contributes to the relationship equally. The majority of affairs for women over 40 are contributed to the same reason. She might not show it at the start as women like to show she can keep a household in order as a way of attracting a man, but eventually she will start to despise you sitting on the couch as she labours in the house, no matter what culture she comes from.
As a moderator on an international affair support group, it only takes a guy to come along and say the right things to a wife in this situation to entice her away from the marriage and yes there are betrayed Russian men who are members as well as western men. Around 40 women are more likely to have an affair, as I said previously due to not feeling appreciated at home. Sadly for many members in this group that have been in a long term relationships, your wife may be seeing another man right now. Women are now cheating almost at the same rates as men. 60-70% of long term relationship experience infidelity, but most will have no idea it happened, unless it's an exit affair. Think about that when you're out drinking with mates every weekend or watching her scrub the kitchen floor, while you watch football.
The woman I'm talking with is an honest 8 for her age, but doesn't see it or doesn't let it go to her head. If I compliment her on her beauty she thanks me, but always finishes with "I'm just a simple woman"
In regards to the OP's issue with her expecting money and 5 star hotels... She refuses to accept gifts. I've had a birthday present for her sitting here for months and won't let me mail it ( I'll give it to her when we meet).... She often says "I don't want anything from you, except your friendship". It's the same with our failed tourist visa attempt. She was out of pocket with some expenses that usually a man would pay and she refuses to be reimbursed. She was more excited with the prospect of camping and sleeping in a swag in the outback, than a luxury hotel in Melbourne.
My family live near a very wealthy city, due to the tuna fishing industry. When I explained there were more millionaires than anywhere else in Australia here and I could only wish to have that type of wealth, she chastised me "money isn't important, who you are a person is the only thing that matters in life"
Maybe I'm lucky to find someone first time that doesn't exhibit any red flags that are common issues in many posts, but it proves that they are out there, you just need to keep looking and don't settle for anything less than your perfect match.
Saying that the real test is when we finally meet, which keeps getting postponed due to both of our work commitments. It looks like September is locked in. I don't recommend waiting to meet as long as we have, but it's pretty amazing we still can chat for hours after 15 months of conversing everyday.
That's my slightly off topic rant done for this month ;)
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Had to look up the word 'swag'. LOL.
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Had to look up the word 'swag'. LOL.
Being originally a country boy, I've spent plenty of nights in my swag. I bought a new double swag for the occasion and like you she had no idea what I was talking about until I showed her. She liked the idea of getting close and cosy together under the stars, despite my warnings of bunyips, drop bears and yowies that stalk tourists in the bush ;D
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Maybe I'm lucky to find someone first time that doesn't exhibit any red flags that are common issues in many posts, but it proves that they are out there, you just need to keep looking and don't settle for anything less than your perfect match.
Saying that the real test is when we finally meet, which keeps getting postponed due to both of our work commitments.
Davo, I was reading this and thinking you had found a great gal.
But then I got to the end and found out you are still just dreaming because you still haven't even met her, let alone spending extended time together.
You actually know NOTHING about this gal.
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I know a redneck who married a Russian woman, and after getting a K1 visa he brought her to his house in Alabama. When they arrived at his house in the country, which was nothing more than a shack with two chickens pecking at the garbage in the front yard, her eyes grew wide, and she shouted out in heavily accented English, “TWO CHICKENS!!! I KNOW YOU SAID YOU WERE RICH, BUT NOT THIS RICH!!!!!
this is the kinda’ gal ‘ya want buckaroo!!!
a Ukrainian village deavocka who ain’t been off the farm yet...
super good muscle tone, they walk multi kms each and every day
full spectrum - nordic blondes to husky browns
for some reason I notice a a lot of Ukrainian village girls have large “cup" sizes, “DD" being very common
they will cook and clean from dawn to dusk and do it all over again the next day
get the book “She Comes First”, do it and you will totally own this farm girl and she will perform for you whatever you wish...
WORD!
I’m here to help you poor buggers...
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I must be missing all the good points about her character which make her a great catch.
She's hot. Some guys will put up with anything to wake
up next to a hottie.
There are a million girls in the FSU who are just as hot.
Once you are willing to dump a hot woman who isn't the
future Mrs_____________ (your name here) is the day
that can begin to find a hottie who will treat you right.
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What are the odds that were he to fish again in the FSU for a woman he might find one that is less demanding on the material front and less ridged with how she sees the relationship developing?
You want to go to a 5 star hotel? Me too what's your credit card number?
No is really easy to say if you have a spine. If you don't have
a spine then you should stay out of the FSU. FSUW want and
need a man with a spine.
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Being originally a country boy, I've spent plenty of nights in my swag. I bought a new double swag for the occasion and like you she had no idea what I was talking about until I showed her. She liked the idea of getting close and cosy together under the stars, despite my warnings of bunyips, drop bears and yowies that stalk tourists in the bush ;D
Swag has a totally different meaning in America lol...
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You want to go to a 5 star hotel? Me too what's your credit card number?
No is really easy to say if you have a spine. If you don't have
a spine then you should stay out of the FSU. FSUW want and
need a man with a spine.
what's that quote, "Give them an inch they'll take a mile"....the girl the OP was with seemed to never be satisfied with what she was given.
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bjorncode12,
please don’t take my comments in a negative way, but you should understand that Russian women are not gentle creatures, they are savage and beautiful ...
if you can handle it...
+ 100
however, if you have any emotional vulnerability, a Russian woman will spot it immediately and if she needs to will hammer it to pieces until it(you!) breaks...
I agree but it's not because she wants to hurt you.
It's because she needs to know if the going gets tough
that you won't be running around blubbering like a little girl.
She wants to "know" that you are going to be able to handle,
manage and overcome whatever crap comes down the road.
but you are the driver, so act like it!!!
Exactly
Pursuing FSUW101
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0
Ten Commandments
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1740.0
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That would be a stupid thing to do.
He did already try 'once more.'
The next time he tries, she will be even more convinced that she can lead him around like an animal with a ring in his nose.
Trying twice is enough for any couple. Three tries is absurd.
By all means recycle cans and bottles and things like that
but DON'T Recycle girls!
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Elena still occupies space in his head and therefore, in his life.
That’s unfair to the woman he is currently with, if the relationship
is serious.
He needs to dump the rebound girl since she has no future with the OP.
If he can think of the old girl with the new girl in his arms then she isn't
the one.
He needs to stop dating girls who aren't the one and never make
a second date with ANY girl who isn't the future Mrs Code. Why
is he still dating rebound girl? He is keeping both of them from
finding their future loves.
Rather than waste both of their times he should be trying to find
the future Mrs Code.
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The OP is pushing 60, so I don't think he needs our help with his dating life. :)
This will be anathema to many here, but I disagree that FSUW are somehow more "complicated" than women elsewhere, or that they have to be "handled" differently. I think that mostly comes down to cultural differences. The same archetypes exist in all societies.
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This will be anathema to many here, but I disagree that FSUW are somehow more "complicated" than women elsewhere, or that they have to be "handled" differently. I think that mostly comes down to cultural differences. The same archetypes exist in all societies.
I think there is something in this. I think many FSW are viewed as complicated or difficult but in reality may often be cultural differences. I think a lot of the time if it's not an actual real difference that need a explaining in order to understand or its a case of both sides not realising that they both have the same problem/fears and are fighting each other over the same hang ups, lol.
I think those are two of three biggest hurdles that come up in FSU dating. The third is that the guy makes mistakes in handling the woman in the right way. I think some FSW will always be decent but there will be some with character flaws where if handled incorrectly it will scupper the relationship fast. Trying to entice a woman with material goods/services to a woman that is materialistic etc is probably the biggest one here and I think one to be smart on avoiding.
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what's that quote, "Give them an inch they'll take a mile"....the girl the OP was with seemed to never be satisfied with what she was given.
On this I actually agree with you, giving a FSW an inch to start with whether to be kind or get in her go is books or whatever is a big mistake, never give her that inch to start with is the only answer.
All the stuff Bill has said is all good too, so true.
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I know a redneck who married a Russian woman, and after getting a K1 visa he brought her to his house in Alabama. When they arrived at his house in the country, which was nothing more than a shack with two chickens pecking at the garbage in the front yard, her eyes grew wide, and she shouted out in heavily accented English, “TWO CHICKENS!!! I KNOW YOU SAID YOU WERE RICH, BUT NOT THIS RICH!!!!!
this is the kinda’ gal ‘ya want buckaroo!!!
a Ukrainian village deavocka who ain’t been off the farm yet...
super good muscle tone, they walk multi kms each and every day
full spectrum - nordic blondes to husky browns
for some reason I notice a a lot of Ukrainian village girls have large “cup" sizes, “DD" being very common
they will cook and clean from dawn to dusk and do it all over again the next day
get the book “She Comes First”, do it and you will totally own this farm girl and she will perform for you whatever you wish...
WORD!
I’m here to help you poor buggers...
Thanks Krimster, well I'm hoping you're right on this stuff, it all sounds good to me :D Maybe I'll try and look up some country girls when I'm out Lviv direction in a couple of months. Thanks for sharing.
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I don't know your age ranges, but lviv and Ternopil are both big college towns
years ago when I lived in Ukraine you could buy an apartment in Lviv for $40,000 and spend about $20,000 in repairs and you would have an amazing apartment!
these apartment buildings had very high ceilings and were built in the Austro-Hungarian period.
Using this as a forward base of operations will allow you to mount visa-free campaigns for up to 6 months in length in Ukraine.
you can have a total seduction pad and pretty much do whatever you want with however many you want...
Man, why aren't you single guys doing this?
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Davo, I was reading this and thinking you had found a great gal.
But then I got to the end and found out you are still just dreaming because you still haven't even met her, let alone spending extended time together.
You actually know NOTHING about this gal.
I'm not a fool, I lived with a woman for 20 years and didn't really know her.
I can only take her on face value, like she does me. It's easy to present a persona that's not you, but she's done her best to involve me with everything she has done in her life over the past year. I've received a picture, video, live skype, explanation etc... every 30 minutes of her waking day, everything from exciting events to the most mundane.
I partially disagree, I probably know more than any her than other woman on the planet. I've talked to this woman more than I did with my ex in 20 years. I know every little detail of her life from a baby to mid life and her family going back many generations. I don't even have to ask and I know exactly where she is or what she's doing at any given time.....
But you're right ML it takes more than an online relationship to actually know someone and at the risk of offending some people here, it takes far more than a week, a month or 6 months of actual time together to really know each other.
Although I would have liked to meet her sooner, but I'm far more comfortable with what's occurred than rushing over for several short trips, proposing to a virtual stranger and hoping for the best. It seems a little insane to me. If another guy jumps the cue good luck to him, he'll need it to base a marriage on a handful of short trips. If you proposed to a local woman after only knowing or spending a month or so together, your friends and family would have serious questions about your sanity, especially for those who have already been divorced due to bad choices in partners.
We may have no connection at all and I'm fully prepared for that. This is the biggest decision any one makes in their life and I'm certainly not going to proceed if I have the slightest concern about her.
As I said before, I'm only traveling this path due the connection we felt after 6 of supporting each other to connect our children with their estranged parents. There was no reason to embellish the truth. In the first few days we discussed topics that I would never touch on with a romantic interest, I'm trying to attract and possibly would never tell a future wife, she did the same. A relationship was never the main priority, we were just two friends experiencing the same situation and still are just friends with a bit of flirting ;D ...
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look, let me lay it all out for you brothers!
if you search for an object in the sexual marketplace, then you yourself become an object in the sexual marketplace...
each object has a value, in Ukraine your value is going to much higher than in your own country
looking for love in Ukraine would be like looking for love in your own country...
if you were 10 million dollars richer and 10 years younger!
what more do you need to know, I mean besides the truth/beauty thing?
a wise man will listen and understand, a foolish man will listen and not understand...
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I think some FSW will always be decent but there will be some with character flaws where if handled incorrectly it will scupper the relationship fast.
You shouldn't have to "handle" a person. Accept them for who they are. If you can't deal with their character flaws, which we all have, move on to the next person.
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"You shouldn't have to "handle" a person"
what if they happen to like being "handled"?
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brat!
if you ever find yourself taking a Ukrainian village girl to the beach, pay attention to small details. for example, in Ukraine a lot of women are so poor they can’t really afford to buy clothing, so they have a lot of “hand-me-downs” from parents or grandparents from the Soviet period, bathing suits are typical of this, they will be badly worn in places and with a few small holes here and there, a lot of buxom farm girls will have ill-fitting tops which creates a lot of “side-boobage”, be a gentleman and go to a more isolated part of the beach, and encourage her to remove her top, “that it’s OK for her to feel free” and most of the time they’ll remove their top...
after an early appraisal if you feel like she's going to be worth the investment, check your local airport for schedules to Istanbul, if she has a travel passport, you just need your passports to go there, visas for you both you get after you de-plane. take her to a 5 star hotel ($120/night) and take her shopping for clothes and shoes ($4,000) at one of the new American style mega malls, where you can help her try on a new bathing suit in the dressing room, and eat at 5 star restaurants ($200/day)
she...will...be...putty...in...your...hands...
for you to mold into whatever shape you want...
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"The capacity to be alone is the capacity to love. It may look paradoxical to you, but it's not. It is an existential truth: only those people who are capable of being alone are capable of love, of sharing, of going into the deepest core of another person, without possessing the other, without becoming dependent on the other, without reducing the other to a thing, and without becoming addicted to the other. They allow the other absolute freedom, because they know that if the other leaves, they will be as happy as they are now. Their happiness cannot be taken by the other, because it is not given by the other.
Osho"
A counsellor made me read this quote 3 years ago when I was struggling with the events surrounding my divorcé and how to move on to new relationships. It's the best relationship advice I've been given.
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"The capacity to be alone is the capacity to love. It may look paradoxical to you, but it's not. It is an existential truth: only those people who are capable of being alone are capable of love, of sharing, of going into the deepest core of another person, without possessing the other, without becoming dependent on the other, without reducing the other to a thing, and without becoming addicted to the other. They allow the other absolute freedom, because they know that if the other leaves, they will be as happy as they are now. Their happiness cannot be taken by the other, because it is not given by the other.
Osho"
I've always said my wife is free to come or go and some people think I don't love my wife.
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I've always said my wife is free to come or go and some people think I don't love my wife.
I thought about that quote only because I got stuck into ML recently about his situation. Probably due to a bit of jealously as I've followed his posts for along time and he successfully pulled off what we are all trying to achieve, but maybe he's right, a relationship should enhance every part of your life for both people. Once that suffers you either try to fix it or walk away happy. Holding onto something that isn't working or was wrong from the start because you're scared to be alone is living a lie.... I did that for 20 years.
You probably love your wife more than most as you don't treat her as a possession, but someone with her own free will. You never own anyone, they stay because they want to.
I hope that quote helps the op also
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You can tell when they are happy, sad..the whole gamut. Asians in general are probably much more reserved as a culture than Russians.
Hmm, you seem rather fond of sweeping generalisations )
MY experience is the opposite..having shared my life with FSU ladies for longer than you have been of adult age.
The OP told us a few posts ago 'that that was it' and much of the 'advice ' he has been getting has been from guys who haven't shared their lives with a FSU... :popcorn:
It is clear the OP hasn't got over 'Elena' and only he can close the lid and stop comparing her.
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The issue of a monthly "stipend". I went to Tver, Russia in 1999. I used an agency called Lifetime Partners. I met about a dozen and a half RW.......but was bowled over by "I".
"I" was beautiful, smart, funny......with lots of interests. She was great company and lots of fun. We liked each other. But the chemistry required to become a couple......is another thing. At the end of my 3 week visit I was approached by my interpreter suggesting that it was customary to provide a monthly "stipend" (allowance) to your RW.
It was agreed that $300 per month would be an appropriate amount. Flash forward five months to my second visit........and I began to learn things about Russian economics....at the "individual" level. The average RW made about (above board) $80 - $110 per month in Tver in 1999. You could purchase an (1950's constructed) apartment for $10,000 - $12,000. The apartment I rented .....which was totally gutted and renovated (beautiful job).....where many city officials lived....could be had for about $18,000. These are US dollars.
"I" and I eventually parted ways. Future RW's I met.....I did not give money to. Do you hand over an allowance to someone you are dating......back home? Of course not. I was not trying to rescue a poor little RW.......by handing out money. My wife had a good job. She was financially stable. She heard from some of her girl friends that many foreign guys were free and easy with their money....lots of gifts......trips etc. My wife said she would have been horrified if I started sending her cash. She said she would have thought that I did not believe her life-style was good enough. In Tver I was caught off-guard. My instincts said their tradition of a monthly stipend......just did not feel right.
Of caused I brought .....and bought modest gifts. But my wife bought us bus tickets to visit friends for a few days......and refused to let me re-imburse her.
Let me ask you......what did these poor little RW do........before Prince Charming.....with a bag of money came along. Many of the women I met had decent jobs, went on occaisional trips, paid their bills......hung-out with friends and relatives.....and had a pretty good life. As soon and I took money out of the equation......that left only a few gals who were looking for what I.......was looking for. Money would eventually take care of itself.
Capt B
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I think a "stipend" is just another scam for them to get money. If a girl in America or any western country asked that, you would kick her to the curb instantly.
It should have sent signals to the OP that his lady was upset at getting "only" $400 a month. She had her own job earning a decent amount for Russian standards.
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The issue of a monthly "stipend". I went to Tver, Russia in 1999. I used an agency called Lifetime Partners. I met about a dozen and a half RW.......but was bowled over by "I".
"I" was beautiful, smart, funny......with lots of interests. She was great company and lots of fun. We liked each other. But the chemistry required to become a couple......is another thing. At the end of my 3 week visit I was approached by my interpreter suggesting that it was customary to provide a monthly "stipend" (allowance) to your RW.
It was agreed that $300 per month would be an appropriate amount. Flash forward five months to my second visit........and I began to learn things about Russian economics....at the "individual" level. The average RW made about (above board) $80 - $110 per month in Tver in 1999. You could purchase an (1950's constructed) apartment for $10,000 - $12,000. The apartment I rented .....which was totally gutted and renovated (beautiful job).....where many city officials lived....could be had for about $18,000. These are US dollars.
"I" and I eventually parted ways. Future RW's I met.....I did not give money to. Do you hand over an allowance to someone you are dating......back home? Of course not. I was not trying to rescue a poor little RW.......by handing out money. My wife had a good job. She was financially stable. She heard from some of her girl friends that many foreign guys were free and easy with their money....lots of gifts......trips etc. My wife said she would have been horrified if I started sending her cash. She said she would have thought that I did not believe her life-style was good enough. In Tver I was caught off-guard. My instincts said their tradition of a monthly stipend......just did not feel right.
Of caused I brought .....and bought modest gifts. But my wife bought us bus tickets to visit friends for a few days......and refused to let me re-imburse her.
Let me ask you......what did these poor little RW do........before Prince Charming.....with a bag of money came along. Many of the women I met had decent jobs, went on occaisional trips, paid their bills......hung-out with friends and relatives.....and had a pretty good life. As soon and I took money out of the equation......that left only a few gals who were looking for what I.......was looking for. Money would eventually take care of itself.
Capt B
Hello Capt!
You have much experience, as do I in this endeavor. I remember "I". I seen her in a video on another agency. She had an amazingly expressive face and a sense of humor about life and herself that made her unforgettable. It has been many years ago. Perhaps you have contacts in Tver that could find her for me? Send me a PM OK?
I am in Kiev now. Seen 10 women so far. I leave on Thursday for Batumi.
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My instincts said their tradition of a monthly stipend......just did not feel right.
Your instincts were correct, as this is not a Russian tradition. After marriage is a different story.
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I don't know your age ranges, but lviv and Ternopil are both big college towns
years ago when I lived in Ukraine you could buy an apartment in Lviv for $40,000 and spend about $20,000 in repairs and you would have an amazing apartment!
these apartment buildings had very high ceilings and were built in the Austro-Hungarian period.
Using this as a forward base of operations will allow you to mount visa-free campaigns for up to 6 months in length in Ukraine.
you can have a total seduction pad and pretty much do whatever you want with however many you want...
Man, why aren't you single guys doing this?
This sort of idea has crossed my mind :D Like I say from where I live I can get a quick cheap flight to Krakow. If Krakow is decent enough I could get something there, if Lviv is better then just get the train over the border. Fun is nice but I'm after a LTR so whatever fits in with a girl & my life, etc.
Also love the Austro-Hungarian Architecture out there :)
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brat!
if you ever find yourself taking a Ukrainian village girl to the beach, pay attention to small details. for example, in Ukraine a lot of women are so poor they can’t really afford to buy clothing, so they have a lot of “hand-me-downs” from parents or grandparents from the Soviet period, bathing suits are typical of this, they will be badly worn in places and with a few small holes here and there, a lot of buxom farm girls will have ill-fitting tops which creates a lot of “side-boobage”, be a gentleman and go to a more isolated part of the beach, and encourage her to remove her top, “that it’s OK for her to feel free” and most of the time they’ll remove their top...
after an early appraisal if you feel like she's going to be worth the investment, check your local airport for schedules to Istanbul, if she has a travel passport, you just need your passports to go there, visas for you both you get after you de-plane. take her to a 5 star hotel ($120/night) and take her shopping for clothes and shoes ($4,000) at one of the new American style mega malls, where you can help her try on a new bathing suit in the dressing room, and eat at 5 star restaurants ($200/day)
she...will...be...putty...in...your...hands...
for you to mold into whatever shape you want...
Inflation is currently a problem in terms of being able to afford clothes over there apparently. After last girl I would hold off on offering to buy clothes big time though. If a girl gets started on this then she may try to go on & on with it and the relationship is essentially sunk, never again!
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Krakow is nice, the castle's a must
met a few nice girls there, a lot of Ukrainians used to go there to shop as well, maybe still do...
lviv is a great, it's Ukraine but it has its own character
the Poland to Ukraine train is the old/slow kind
on the way to Poland from Ukraine, Ukrainians are smuggling cigarettes so your luggage gets a bit more scrutinized at the border by the Poles
but you're a foreigner, so you'll be scrutinized less...
if you're ever in a situation where you have to smuggle something out of Ukraine, like cash or artwork, a train is the way to go and not the airport!
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The issue of a monthly "stipend". I went to Tver, Russia in 1999. I used an agency called Lifetime Partners. I met about a dozen and a half RW.......but was bowled over by "I".
"I" was beautiful, smart, funny......with lots of interests. She was great company and lots of fun. We liked each other. But the chemistry required to become a couple......is another thing. At the end of my 3 week visit I was approached by my interpreter suggesting that it was customary to provide a monthly "stipend" (allowance) to your RW.
It was agreed that $300 per month would be an appropriate amount. Flash forward five months to my second visit........and I began to learn things about Russian economics....at the "individual" level. The average RW made about (above board) $80 - $110 per month in Tver in 1999. You could purchase an (1950's constructed) apartment for $10,000 - $12,000. The apartment I rented .....which was totally gutted and renovated (beautiful job).....where many city officials lived....could be had for about $18,000. These are US dollars.
"I" and I eventually parted ways. Future RW's I met.....I did not give money to. Do you hand over an allowance to someone you are dating......back home? Of course not. I was not trying to rescue a poor little RW.......by handing out money. My wife had a good job. She was financially stable. She heard from some of her girl friends that many foreign guys were free and easy with their money....lots of gifts......trips etc. My wife said she would have been horrified if I started sending her cash. She said she would have thought that I did not believe her life-style was good enough. In Tver I was caught off-guard. My instincts said their tradition of a monthly stipend......just did not feel right.
Of caused I brought .....and bought modest gifts. But my wife bought us bus tickets to visit friends for a few days......and refused to let me re-imburse her.
Let me ask you......what did these poor little RW do........before Prince Charming.....with a bag of money came along. Many of the women I met had decent jobs, went on occaisional trips, paid their bills......hung-out with friends and relatives.....and had a pretty good life. As soon and I took money out of the equation......that left only a few gals who were looking for what I.......was looking for. Money would eventually take care of itself.
Capt B
Never heard of a RW getting an allowance from her foreign b/f. I lived and worked in Moscow for 6 years and through my wife met RW who were dating foreigners, mostly Germans and Brits.
Sure the b/f would buy the RW gifts, clothes mostly, flowers and such and take them on vacations but a monthly allowance while dating? This is especially true if the b/f is not living in Russia. Never heard of it.
While married, that's a different story. I know of a number of marriages (at home and in Moscow) where the foreign wife, RW, Chinese wife and Filipino wife run the family finances and the husband is literally given pocket money for the pay period and if he needs more he had better have a good excuse for needing more money. The price of Starbucks coffee going up is not good enough for an extra $20.
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. . . where the foreign wife, RW, Chinese wife and Filipino wife run the family finances . . .
I have always managed the finances in my 2 marriages.
Of course, I am a finance man.
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I have always managed the finances in my 2 marriages.
Of course, I am a finance man.
Same for us. My wife freely admits that she isn't too good with long term financial planning so I handle that. It wasn't something she was taught in Russia. No financial planning workshops in any of the jobs she had in Russia.
Is that even a thing in Russia or anywhere in the FSU? Do Russian jobs offer financial planning for retirement? Are there Russian versions of IRAs or 401 (k)?
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"Is that even a thing in Russia or anywhere in the FSU? Do Russian jobs offer financial planning for retirement? Are there Russian versions of IRAs or 401 (k)? "
average Russians who were fortunate enough to have had savings accounts, simply saw their savings disappear in a bank over and over again.
stock market is completely "crooked"
only "safe" asset is real estate, but even that can be stolen from you
this is why rich Russians take their money abroad, for the "security" being outside of Russia provides
everyone else in Russia has to take it on the chin
so people aren't real big on saving there, and most probably don't have anything to save anyway...
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Same for us. My wife freely admits that she isn't too good with long term financial planning so I handle that. It wasn't something she was taught in Russia. No financial planning workshops in any of the jobs she had in Russia.
Is that even a thing in Russia or anywhere in the FSU? Do Russian jobs offer financial planning for retirement? Are there Russian versions of IRAs or 401 (k)?
Pretty much all of the Russian women I talked to knew little to nothing about finance and investing. Even simple things like index investing, dividends, they havn't a clue.
I asked one friend if she ever tried to buy stocks like Google, Apple, Facebook (FANG)... and she looked at me with a bewildered face.
They don't got E-trade or direct online brokerages for the average joe. Don't know about 401(k) or RRSP (Canadian version) but pretty sure very few people plan ahead. What they pay to pensioners is miniscule.
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I know of a number of marriages (at home and in Moscow) where the foreign wife, RW, Chinese wife and Filipino wife run the family finances and the husband is literally given pocket money for the pay period and if he needs more he had better have a good excuse for needing more money. The price of Starbucks coffee going up is not good enough for an extra $20.
I haven't heard this at all. Probably cause I'm from a business background and many of my guy friends work in finance/business. No guy I know asks for money from the wife!
I would have thought in Russian and Asian cultures the man takes on the traditional role and manages the money, not the women.
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While married, that's a different story. I know of a number of marriages (at home and in Moscow) where the . . . RW run the family finances and the husband is literally given pocket money for the pay period and if he needs more he had better have a good excuse for needing more money. The price of Starbucks coffee going up is not good enough for an extra $20.
Historically, that was the case in Russia, and Ukraine. Husbands turned the money over to their wives to manage family expenses. Of course, for most of that time, most couples did not have substantial savings. Women controlling family finances exclusively has changed, to a degree, since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Why, I don't know, as this existed from pre Soviet times.
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as krimster said many rich Russians store their money outside of Russia. Read the Panama Papers and how Putin is supposedly the richest man in the world.
Cyprus was a big haven for Russians, until their banks collasped. one of my former private Russian clients was a VERY wealthy man, close to billionaire status.
He and his family all had EU passports and kept his money in offshore accounts. I worked at one of his residences in a very well known tax free haven in Europe. Man the stories I could tell of their lifestyle.
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Yes.....this monthly "stipend" was concocted by the agency interpreters and RW. In 1999 I was a complete newbie. I was out $300 x 5 months ($1,500). I am someone who usually learns from his mistakes. In hind-sight.........in the greater scheme of things.......$1,500 was a cheap learning experience. I spent three weeks in Russia my first trip.
There are guys here on the forum who have spent more than $5,000......and haven't even left their home country yet.
Capt B
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Yes.....this monthly "stipend" was concocted by the agency interpreters and RW. In 1999 I was a complete newbie. I was out $300 x 5 months ($1,500). I am someone who usually learns from his mistakes. In hind-sight.........in the greater scheme of things.......$1,500 was a cheap learning experience. I spent three weeks in Russia my first trip.
There are guys here on the forum who have spent more than $5,000......and haven't even left their home country yet.
Capt B
How the heck do spend $5000 and not even leave the country?! Pay me that much and I'll personally take you to Moscow myself and introduce you to my single friends.
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Yes.....this monthly "stipend" was concocted by the agency interpreters and RW. In 1999 I was a complete newbie. I was out $300 x 5 months ($1,500). I am someone who usually learns from his mistakes. In hind-sight.........in the greater scheme of things.......$1,500 was a cheap learning experience. I spent three weeks in Russia my first trip.
There are guys here on the forum who have spent more than $5,000......and haven't even left their home country yet.
Capt B
When men ask me for advice on meeting foreign women I tell them to visit the country first before going on a dating site. Get a passport, you'd be surprised how many Americans have never been outside the US. Not even to Canada or Mexico.
Take a vacation to Russia (or China, Philippines, etc). See if you like the country. Chat with the RW at McDonald's or a bar or in the park, etc. If you can afford to stay in the country for months, get a job teaching English or get a visa and take language lessons. In the end this is probably cheaper than paying for correspondence on a site like AFA and will probably lead to far more dates with real foreign women.
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When men ask me for advice on meeting foreign women I tell them to visit the country first before going on a dating site. Get a passport, you'd be surprised how many Americans have never been outside the US. Not even to Canada or Mexico.
Why would anyone want to leave the greatest country in the world???? Everything else is like going downhill!!
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How the heck do spend $5000 and not even leave the country?! Pay me that much and I'll personally take you to Moscow myself and introduce you to my single friends.
Some guys have come to the forum admitting they spent thousands on chat and video chat. Girls working at agencies know how to keep guys on the hook.
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Some guys have come to the forum admitting they spent thousands on chat and video chat. Girls working at agencies know how to keep guys on the hook.
Skype, Whatsapp, Facebook are all free these days. Google translate does a half decent job. I don't know how much they charge but even spending a grand or 2 is crazy.
Good business for these agencies!
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Skype, Whatsapp, Facebook are all free these days. Google translate does a half decent job. I don't know how much they charge but even spending a grand or 2 is crazy.
Good business for these agencies!
Agencies don't allow for exchange of private contact info. Some agencies charge a huge fee if you want a girl's contact info and if she agrees to it. Most girls won't agree to pass out their contact info because it doesn't pay to communicate outside the agency and they don't like most of the men communicating with them. Some girls, if they're single and actually likes a guy will pass on their private contact info through the agency messaging/video system.
Some guys fall in love with a photo at the pay to play agencies and have to chase certain women no matter the costs. The girl(s) they're in love with gives them a little attention and they're hook. Next thing you know, he's got a big bill to pay.
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Agencies don't allow for exchange of private contact info. Some agencies charge a huge fee if you want a girl's contact info and if she agrees to it. Most girls won't agree to pass out their contact info because it doesn't pay to communicate outside the agency and they don't like most of the men communicating with them. Some girls, if they're single and actually likes a guy will pass on their private contact info through the agency messaging/video system.
Some guys fall in love with a photo at the pay to play agencies and have to chase certain women no matter the costs. The girl(s) they're in love with gives them a little attention and they're hook. Next thing you know, he's got a big bill to pay.
Yeah agencies basically suck you in and force you to use their site to communicate. Quite clever in a way but I guess there's enough guys who fall for it.
And the pay per letter thing is absolute highway robbery. It's a heck of a business idea I'll say that.
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as krimster said many rich Russians store their money outside of Russia. Read the Panama Papers and how Putin is supposedly the richest man in the world.
Cyprus was a big haven for Russians, until their banks collasped. one of my former private Russian clients was a VERY wealthy man, close to billionaire status.
He and his family all had EU passports and kept his money in offshore accounts. I worked at one of his residences in a very well known tax free haven in Europe. Man the stories I could tell of their lifestyle.
Goodness, you just mentioned another place I know LOTS about and I beg to differ 're Cyprus not being a place FSU folks' money resides.
Despite the haircuts and bank closures, Cyprus is doing v.nicely from the money you suggest is going
When were you last in Cyprus or Russia?
My other half is in CY, now..helping a friend sell a villa...to RUSSIANS...
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Krimster
You wrote
"please don’t take my comments in a negative way, but you should understand that Russian women are not gentle creatures, they are savage and beautiful ...
if you can handle it...
however, if you have any emotional vulnerability, a Russian woman will spot it immediately and if she needs to will hammer it to pieces until it(you!) breaks...
In Russia, no one relies on the kindness of strangers (ever!)
and there’s a reason for that..."
I check in here about once every six months or so and rarely post but that one kind of got me. I don't know you list "looking 1-2 years" and "trips none (yet). I'm just curious how in the world you felt qualified to make those statements? Geez!
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i read it in a book!!
actually, never bothered 2 fill in my 2nd account here properly
my bona fides?
6 mo sabbatical in kyiv in 1996 was my 1st trip
too many visits to count
lived there 3 yr w/ wife and children
had several RW gfs before wife
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Well I can't say I agree with your observations. In scientific terms one has to be cautious with small sample size. You might want to update your information
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OP.
You dodged a bullet.
If a year and a half long , long distance relationship, is that much work and drama,.then neither of you were right for each other.
Caring for someone that is not even close to compatible is easy, living with them isnt.
You were lucky.
Run dont walk, and never ever look back.
Since that time I have been on the Elenasmodels website and have communicated with a couple of other women and I have noticed something about those that have high social market value. They are very tough and know what they want and expect to get it. If you are not treating them as high worth individuals and stroking them as princesses, they will let you know, and in my case, it has always been with a high degree of drama and emotionalism. They savor the idea that feelings are to be acknowledged and indulged.
no! not all attractive FSU women are like that.
Don't make assumptions off a small percentage of the general population, looking to leave their country on an MOB agency website.
Try to imagine a more likely place to find materialistic manipulative personality types?
The majority of family oriented women are still married to FSU men.
What an odd thread chalk full of wacky stereotypes.
Debate it forever but -
Most FSU men and women marry, have families, raise them together,or divorce.
All at roughly the same rate as western cultures do.
Same as it ever was.
To think they are from mars over different cultural expectation or outlook , is just getting further from reality. Humans and their basic emotional needs are the same everywhere .
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actually, never bothered 2 fill in my 2nd account here properly
Shhhsh, only one allowed.....