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Author Topic: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?  (Read 44970 times)

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Offline BillyB

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #150 on: July 26, 2016, 07:43:18 AM »
Try to live as a foreigner somewhere and you'll understand. Foreign people have limited employment options. Law enforcement, security, Army, Government etc. etc. are out of their reach. And even when it comes to regular private companies.. All things being equal, citizens always have the priority.


Come to America Papa and we'll take care of you as long as you want to work hard and succeed. In the link below shows American citizens rank #75 on household income in America. Russians who live in America rank #8 making $25,000 more a year than Americans. Minorities can not only find opportunity and equality here, but can do much better the majority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_groups_in_the_United_States_by_household_income
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline papakota

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #151 on: July 26, 2016, 07:50:37 AM »
That is why most Ukrainians were so gobsmacked that there then pro Russian numnuts President did not sign up to the process for EU membership thereby triggering a brief civil war. They would otherwise be able to come here and earn what is top tier stockbroker salary in their country for washing dishes or the like in the UK. Then how many Ukrainians would be seeking foreign men, not as many me thinks ;) They would do what the Polish do and come over with their men or join up with men of their own culture over here, shutting out the native men. Since then even a pathetic Ukrainian guy could earn what would be loads of money back in the Ukraine through doing easy work.

Part of the reason I voted to Leave the EU, keeps the pool of women from these countries available :D They will have to get with a UK (or go US) guy if they want in.
Like I said, I won't get into a political discussion, but as far as situation in Ukraine is concerned I disagree with you 200%.
As per your reasoning in voting... That's silly. Even if Yanukovitch signed the Association Agreement with the EU, it would have taken another generation for the Ukraine to join the EU. 20 or 30 years AT VERY LEAST. By then you'd probably be too old anyway. Unless you're 20 years old now. Come on, they can't even VISIT the EU visa free. Something I can do with my passport since 1990. Actually I can also visit the UK visa free as well.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 07:58:04 AM by papakota »

Offline papakota

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #152 on: July 26, 2016, 07:56:39 AM »
Come to America Papa and we'll take care of you as long as you want to work hard and succeed. In the link below shows American citizens rank #75 on household income in America. Russians who live in America rank #8 making $25,000 more a year than Americans. Minorities can not only find opportunity and equality here, but can do much better the majority.

US is a totally different than Europe. An opposite rather. But frankly, if I were you, I wouldn't be too concentrated with the stats. Maybe in London Russians also are on top of the list, BUT they don't go to work in London as regular British citizens do, but rather bring their money from Russia to keep it in a safe harbor.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #153 on: July 26, 2016, 08:53:57 AM »
It's a pointless argument. Try to live as a foreigner somewhere and you'll understand.

I have lived as a foreigner somewhere, and I am married to a foreigner who has lived in my country for over 20 years.

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Foreign people have limited employment options. Law enforcement, security, Army, Government etc. etc. are out of their reach.

Untrue in Canada.  In fact, the RCMP is currently reviewing a change to recruitment to allow it to be open to permanent residents, rather than just citizens.

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And even when it comes to regular private companies.. All things being equal, citizens always have the priority.

Also absolutely untrue.  If that were the case, there would be massive unemployment in foreign countries with large non indigenous populations.  In my city, one of every four individuals is foreign born.  I see Filipina nurses, South African, Polish, Pakistani, etc. physicians, Chinese engineers and accountants, Indian IT specialists, etc. routinely.

Is it harder for them?  Probably.  Connections, particularly those made in school, matter.  People hire people they like.  But it isn't a priority, and in fact, in many types of employment (government, public companies), foreigners, particularly if they are visible minorities, will have an edge.
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Here in Russia, it's different. Much worse. Unless you're a citizen, even most regular jobs are out of your reach.

Don't confuse an authoritarian regime with limited experience with democratic principles with countries with long histories of same.
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I don't see many Irish citizens here who say that they are being treated in the UK same as citizens in every way. Again, don't confuse the right to work and citizenship.

You don't have to see them.  They are.   That was part of EU agreements.

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I'm a permanent resident in Russia and I can't bring my mom to here, unless I'm a citizen. Just because a Russian woman will have a right to work, that does not automatically mean that British employers would be eager to employ her. And don't compare her to an Irish in the UK. Irish people speak English as their first language, they probably have local references and similar mentality. And there's another thing... Irish or Polish people come TO WORK in the UK. She would come to LIVE in the UK. In HER mind those are totally different things, trust me. She married a UK citizen to get a dolce vita in the West, not to clean Western old people's behinds for a minimum wage.
If their marriage breaks up and IF she can still legally stay in the UK (something that I doubt, unless they were married long enough), she most likely can find another local guy to start anew. So why would she need to go back?

The point is, her life can't be that bad if she decides to stay.  So cry me a river on how tough it is to be a foreigner in the UK.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #154 on: July 26, 2016, 01:31:48 PM »
Like I said, I won't get into a political discussion, but as far as situation in Ukraine is concerned I disagree with you 200%.
As per your reasoning in voting... That's silly. Even if Yanukovitch signed the Association Agreement with the EU, it would have taken another generation for the Ukraine to join the EU. 20 or 30 years AT VERY LEAST. By then you'd probably be too old anyway. Unless you're 20 years old now. Come on, they can't even VISIT the EU visa free. Something I can do with my passport since 1990. Actually I can also visit the UK visa free as well.

The Ukraine have really cacked up their economy by trying to choose sides, EU or Russia, the smart thing to do would have been to deal with both to build a stronger economy. The EU has taken in some pretty poor countries as members recently, Romania & Bulgaria. I don't think the Ukraine would have had long to wait but Yanukovitch fluffed it not signing the agreement.

Saw the Ukraine's problems the moment I saw Maidan Square - people getting militant instead of focussing on the economy, least to say of the military entanglement. Its the people that suffer in the end by not everyone focusing on the economy causing further cacking up of their economy.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #155 on: July 26, 2016, 01:50:58 PM »
It's a pointless argument. Try to live as a foreigner somewhere and you'll understand. Foreign people have limited employment options. Law enforcement, security, Army, Government etc. etc. are out of their reach. And even when it comes to regular private companies.. All things being equal, citizens always have the priority. Here in Russia, it's different. Much worse. Unless you're a citizen, even most regular jobs are out of your reach. I don't see many Irish citizens here who say that they are being treated in the UK same as citizens in every way. Again, don't confuse the right to work and citizenship. I'm a permanent resident in Russia and I can't bring my mom to here, unless I'm a citizen. Just because a Russian woman will have a right to work, that does not automatically mean that British employers would be eager to employ her. And don't compare her to an Irish in the UK. Irish people speak English as their first language, they probably have local references and similar mentality. And there's another thing... Irish or Polish people come TO WORK in the UK. She would come to LIVE in the UK. In HER mind those are totally different things, trust me. She married a UK citizen to get a dolce vita in the West, not to clean Western old people's behinds for a minimum wage.
If their marriage breaks up and IF she can still legally stay in the UK (something that I doubt, unless they were married long enough), she most likely can find another local guy to start anew. So why would she need to go back?

Essentially she doesn't have to work in the UK, the guy would either support her or she would get pregnant then the guy gets money from the state for the kids, family etc. Some even get accommodation paid by the council but I needn't go there. Areas in the UK vary also, London is very expensive as is much of the south of England, but Wales, the midlands, northern England and of course Scotland are much cheaper for housing which is the main cost in the UK. So take your pick of where to live it would be having a happy family which would be the main thing which apparently is what FSW want or similar.

More difficult to say where FSW would be happy, would depend on the woman I guess, few British people care about what others are up to in the UK unless they are seriously p*ssing on their turf - i.e jobs & housing under massive strain. It would be conceivable that a part time job could be obtainable in the right kind for the FSW where she would feel happy and not overworked or under strain, you just have to think realistically i.e is her English good, is she a people person or not, is she physically active type, what kills does she have, area she would like to work in.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline papakota

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #156 on: July 26, 2016, 02:36:40 PM »
Boethius,
I never said it was hard to live as a foreigner in the UK or Canada. You use your imagination and try to put words in my mouth. Moreover, you're confusing a term foreigner and non-citizen. You're talking about minority citizens (people that you mistakenly called foreigners). That's a totally different story. Canada is Canada. Though it's a cold and unsuccessful backyard of the United States... Still... For foreign people (regardless of their immigration status) it's one of the best countries in the world. What Canada has to do with the UK? We're discussing Europe here, not America.
Okay, Russia is Russia, but still... just because some European country is democratic doesn't mean that a non-citizen with a right to work is welcomed to join the workforce. The only right thing you said was that people hire people they like. You think an old and fat British lady would like a lean and attractive young Russian woman? I highly doubt. Not just that. Xenophobia is pretty common in Europe. To a less extent in the UK, but I'm sure it's there and Brexit only proved my point of view in the matter. Plus the fact that she doesn't speak English as her mother tongue, lack of references and connections, etc. etc. Again, I'm not saying it would be impossible for her to find a job. But I'm sure it's not gonna be a walk in a park. Don't remind me of those idiots in RCMP. All they're capable of is to kill an innocent Polish guy with their tasers. Very democratic, I must add... It was in every newspaper in Vancouver around 2007-2008.
When I said that I didn't see the Irish guys here that meant that those guys aren't present on this board to tell something about the matter.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 02:38:18 PM by papakota »

Offline papakota

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #157 on: July 26, 2016, 02:50:05 PM »
The Ukraine have really cacked up their economy by trying to choose sides, EU or Russia, the smart thing to do would have been to deal with both to build a stronger economy. The EU has taken in some pretty poor countries as members recently, Romania & Bulgaria. I don't think the Ukraine would have had long to wait but Yanukovitch fluffed it not signing the agreement.

Saw the Ukraine's problems the moment I saw Maidan Square - people getting militant instead of focussing on the economy, least to say of the military entanglement. Its the people that suffer in the end by not everyone focusing on the economy causing further cacking up of their economy.
Trenchcoat,
How you can choose a side when about half of your fellow citizens feel otherwise? Those problems didn't exist in Romania or Bulgaria. Not even in Baltic States where a huge part of their Russian speaking population at that time didn't have citizenship and voting rights. 9 years ago is not recently in my book. And those 2 countries just got lucky to catch a leaving train. Also don't compare those two with the Ukraine. Google the corruption level in Romania and Bulgaria and compare it to one in the Ukraine. VERY big gap.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #158 on: July 26, 2016, 03:22:14 PM »
Boethius,
I never said it was hard to live as a foreigner in the UK or Canada. You use your imagination and try to put words in my mouth.
Your words -
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Try to live as a foreigner somewhere and you'll understand.

If you are going to qualify this, you should do so in your posts.  I respond to what you post, and I'm not a mind reader.

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Moreover, you're confusing a term foreigner and non-citizen. You're talking about minority citizens (people that you mistakenly called foreigners). That's a totally different story. Canada is Canada. Though it's a cold and unsuccessful backyard of the United States... Still... For foreign people (regardless of their immigration status) it's one of the best countries in the world. What Canada has to do with the UK? We're discussing Europe here, not America.

Again, your words -.

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My personal opinion is that a non-citizen is a non-citizen. It's a second class person in ANY country

And no, I am not confusing the term "foreigner" with "non-citizen".  You are confused. as you have assumed an Irish citizen working in the UK has different rights in terms of work or benefits than does a citizen. 

All EU citizens have mobility rights, including working in the UK.  They have rights to benefits after a short period, including welfare, housing, and medical care.  They even have rights to family benefits for children who are no longer in the UK.  That was part of what Brexit was about.  The pressures put on the system for council houses, on the NHS, and on schooling for Europeans who have every right to those very benefits was what drove Brexit.  It wasn't about the Swedish students there, or the German bankers in London, or the French engineers.

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Okay, Russia is Russia, but still... just because some European country is democratic doesn't mean that a non-citizen with a right to work is welcomed to join the workforce.

The UK's unemployment rates state otherwise.

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The only right thing you said was that people hire people they like. You think an old and fat British lady would like a lean and attractive young Russian woman? I highly doubt. Not just that.
Most fat old women aren't making hiring decisions.  Weight is generally tied to class in the West.

There is a former poster here who met his Russian partner in the UK.  She was hired by one of those seething ugly British women, even before he met her.

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Xenophobia is pretty common in Europe. To a less extent in the UK, but I'm sure it's there and Brexit only proved my point of view in the matter.

It wasn't xenophobia.  It was a population exploding at a far higher rate than the country, and particularly, its infrastructure, could absorb.  When women are giving birth at home because hospitals are full, and children are being denied places in their local school because it's too full, when you can't obtain an appointment with a physician as they are booked solid for two months, or you are waiting for a council house for years as you are bumped by a family that just arrived from Gdansk, then you are going to ask questions about the numbers of people pouring into your country.  Note, these things affect mostly the working class, who rely on these services.  We can argue this is the fault of government, which did not plan well to absorb newcomers, but that doesn't help the working class who are relying on those services.
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Plus the fact that she doesn't speak English as her mother tongue, lack of references and connections, etc. etc. Again, I'm not saying it would be impossible for her to find a job. But I'm sure it's not gonna be a walk in a park.

A million East Europeans do so in the UK everyday.  So, who should I believe?  Real statistics, or your misguided opinion?

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Don't remind me of those idiots in RCMP. All they're capable of is to kill an innocent Polish guy with their tasers. Very democratic, I must add... It was in every newspaper in Vancouver around 2007-2008.

Yes, and what happened?  There was a public inquiry, and eventually, all of the officers involved were tried for perjury.

That being said, the RCMP does do some very good work in communities across Canada.
 
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When I said that I didn't see the Irish guys here that meant that those guys aren't present on this board to tell something about the matter.

Actually no, that is inaccurate.  There are Irish passport holders here, BC being one of them, msmoby being another.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 03:27:51 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #159 on: July 26, 2016, 03:32:13 PM »
The Ukraine have really cacked up their economy by trying to choose sides, EU or Russia, the smart thing to do would have been to deal with both to build a stronger economy. The EU has taken in some pretty poor countries as members recently, Romania & Bulgaria. I don't think the Ukraine would have had long to wait but Yanukovitch fluffed it not signing the agreement.

Saw the Ukraine's problems the moment I saw Maidan Square - people getting militant instead of focussing on the economy, least to say of the military entanglement. Its the people that suffer in the end by not everyone focusing on the economy causing further cacking up of their economy.


First, it is not "the" Ukraine.  Just Ukraine.


Second, Yanukovych could not meet EU standards.  At the time, I heard grumblings about how corrupt he was, how the population was tired of all the corruption.  I gave him the benefit of the doubt, but that was the reason people were on Maidan.


Yanukovych's trade deal with Russia would have precluded EU involvement in Ukraine.  Ukrainians wanted EU involvement as they believed their transparency laws would minimize corruption.


In a way, papakota has a point about Romania and Bulgaria.   I can't speak for Bulgaria, but Romania was just as corrupt as Ukraine was in the 1990's, and even in the early 2000's.  I believe being in the EU made it less corrupt.  That is what most Ukrainians wanted, and that is why they were on Maidan.  There was no way corruption was going to end had they not protested.  Of course, even now, it hasn't ended.  The only difference now is, they can't go back to the IMF with cap in hand, without a real plan.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline JayH

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #160 on: July 27, 2016, 03:04:41 AM »
The Ukraine have really cacked up their economy by trying to choose sides, EU or Russia, the smart thing to do would have been to deal with both to build a stronger economy. The EU has taken in some pretty poor countries as members recently, Romania & Bulgaria. I don't think the Ukraine would have had long to wait but Yanukovitch fluffed it not signing the agreement.

Saw the Ukraine's problems the moment I saw Maidan Square - people getting militant instead of focussing on the economy, least to say of the military entanglement. Its the people that suffer in the end by not everyone focusing on the economy causing further cacking up of their economy.

You are a complete utter moron. The ignorance you show is only exceeded by the sheer stupidity in the overall sense.
Now you attempt to post on matters that you have even less comprehension on than your ideas about women.
Best you look elsewhere than Ukraine--you might find someone in Russia stupid enough to have anything to do with you.
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline papakota

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #161 on: July 27, 2016, 04:08:52 AM »
Essentially she doesn't have to work in the UK, the guy would either support her or she would get pregnant then the guy gets money from the state for the kids, family etc. Some even get accommodation paid by the council but I needn't go there. Areas in the UK vary also, London is very expensive as is much of the south of England, but Wales, the midlands, northern England and of course Scotland are much cheaper for housing which is the main cost in the UK. So take your pick of where to live it would be having a happy family which would be the main thing which apparently is what FSW want or similar.

More difficult to say where FSW would be happy, would depend on the woman I guess, few British people care about what others are up to in the UK unless they are seriously p*ssing on their turf - i.e jobs & housing under massive strain. It would be conceivable that a part time job could be obtainable in the right kind for the FSW where she would feel happy and not overworked or under strain, you just have to think realistically i.e is her English good, is she a people person or not, is she physically active type, what kills does she have, area she would like to work in.
Wow, you've painted such a happy picture. But something tells me that in a real life it's gonna be less happy.
If everything was so easy, half of the UK would have brought foreign young and attractive spouses.
I highly doubt that British government would be so eager to give benefits to a new IMMIGRANT. Normally everywhere it's strictly FORBIDDEN (in Russia or the US). Called "A public charge" in the US, for example and it's a ground for inadmissibility there, BTW. As per pregnancy, I don't know many Russian women who jump into being pregnant from pretty much foreign strangers. They (Russian women that is) aren't that stupid, trust me!

P.S. As per Ukraine... I think JayH pretty much expressed my feelings too. I'm just afraid to talk, considering where I am and also I'm just being polite here... Though I'm far from supporting Ukrainian nationalists or any nationalists for that matter. In the countries of immigrants like the US, Canada and Australia it's much easier for a newcomer to assimilate. Because general population is far less nationalistic and xenophobic.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 04:14:27 AM by papakota »

Offline papakota

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #162 on: July 27, 2016, 04:40:15 AM »
Boethius,
You wrote so much...

So how much of a real jail time those Canadian officers got in the end?

Again, you talk too much about the EU citizens and Irish citizens living in the UK. I've never been in the UK, nor I really know the situation there in regard to EU nationals. Why would I care if I'm neither EU citizen or an Irish national. Neither Russian women. You put in one basket completely different cases. Should I say it in Russian, since you seem not understand English. THOSE PEOPLE ARE CITIZENS. Whether EU and/or Irish ones. A Russian woman WON'T BE!!! Moreover, she's from Russia. A country that British officials don't particularly like to the best of my knowledge. Etc. etc. etc.

Again, I never said it's SO HARD to live as a foreigner in the UK. And it does NOT contradict my previous saying "Try to live as a foreigner and you'll understand me better".

Irish citizens in the UK have nothing to do with CANADIAN citizens living in Canada and having extra rights due to their minority status. So it's not me who's being wrong here. Again, for a zillionth time. Don't put citizens and immigrants in one basket!

Okay, I didn't check the UK unemployment rates. But generally in Europe they're FAR higher than in the US and Canada.

Your silly stories about people from Gdansk don't impress me a bit. Simply because you can't eat your cake and have it too. UK nationals can't enjoy all the benefits of being EU citizens and at the same time not to have some issues with immigration from poorer EU countries. How would YOU feel if a citizen of Norway or Luxemburg start saying same sh... about British people immigrating into Norway or Luxemburg. And the lack of Brexit speed only proves me right. One thing is to spread silly populist speeches for a local audience in the UK and triggering article 50 is a totally different matter!

A Russian woman married to UK national is NOT in any way, shape or form resembles East European EU citizens coming to work in the UK.

Those Irish guys haven't said anything here yet. That's what I meant.


Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #163 on: July 27, 2016, 05:57:31 AM »

Again, you talk too much about the EU citizens and Irish citizens living in the UK. I've never been in the UK, nor I really know the situation there in regard to EU nationals. Why would I care if I'm neither EU citizen or an Irish national. Neither Russian women. You put in one basket completely different cases. Should I say it in Russian, since you seem not understand English. THOSE PEOPLE ARE CITIZENS. Whether EU and/or Irish ones. A Russian woman WON'T BE!!! Moreover, she's from Russia. A country that British officials don't particularly like to the best of my knowledge. Etc. etc. etc.

Okay, I didn't check the UK unemployment rates. But generally in Europe they're FAR higher than in the US and Canada.

UK nationals can't enjoy all the benefits of being EU citizens and at the same time not to have some issues with immigration from poorer EU countries. How would YOU feel if a citizen of Norway or Luxemburg start saying same sh... about British people immigrating into Norway or Luxemburg. And the lack of Brexit speed only proves me right. One thing is to spread silly populist speeches for a local audience in the UK and triggering article 50 is a totally different matter!

A Russian woman married to UK national is NOT in any way, shape or form resembles East European EU citizens coming to work in the UK.


Fact of the matter EU citizens from poor countries in the EU have a strong motive to come here - they earn four times as much. UK citizens have little reason to go to live in these poor countries - few want to earn a quarter of what they do here. Some do but thew are few, many of those in retirement in the UK live abroad in warm countries in the EU - they have their UK pension coming to them in pound sterling and a lifetime of assets in pound sterling so they can live very well in any warm weather EU country, many are in France or Spain for example. As a working age national of the UK though it sucks, you are competing with loads of East Europeans (poor EU countries) who are eager to work hard for four times the money they would get for the same job in their home country and employers know this hence why they get hired often. Naturally, not everyone can get work and the young UK nationals with the least experience and work history (if any since leaving school) are often frozen out of the job market altogether for years and years, possibly indefinitely.

Hence why when it came to the EU referendum vote so many young UK nationals and their concerned parents voted to leave. Voting leave didn't just happen by chance there was this strong sentiment that the EU policy of free movement of people who screwing over the chances of UK nationals to get on since no job = no owned house = no family = no life. That is why people on council estates who normally don't bother with elections and voting turned out in their droves since East Europeans also compete with them for council housing an issue they will actually get off their todd and vote about.

The ones that voted remain, generally some students without any concept of what happens in the real world post uni who buy into all the EU BS about 'Opportunities in Europe' - there generally are none unless you command a masterly skill of that countries language. etc, etc. Business people, depending on their business, some researchers and intellectuals, rich toffs in Kensington & Chelsea who have no concept of what work is, the world outside their own cushioned existence, etc. Point is all these groups are too few in number to make a win an easy prospect for them. Because they are used to leading they thought the rest of the country would do as they are told but of course the rest of the country saw the damage the EU was doing to their day to day lives and knew otherwise the EU was not good for them.

In all honesty the EU worked well enough when it was just Western Europe, it is when Eastern Europe was added and mass migration occurred that it all went pear shaped. The EU leadership have not recognized this though, they are ignorant of the plight of those suffering under there policies - they don't value them just their 'high ideals' of what they want, free movement of people, etc. They don't see that before Eastern Europe joined it worked ok as it was a few people move here, a few move there, no problem but they failed to recognize the damaging impact mass migration has.

End of the day the UK can do trade with anyone, they are not (no longer) tied to the EU to do it with EU countries - that is why there is a delay in leaving the EU because the UK will be starting free trade deals with other non-EU countries internationally to offset the EU trade. The EU will suffer more than the UK since the UK imports more than it exports to the EU. If the EU insists on free movement of people to do free trade then no free trade will be happening with the EU, the UK can afford to walk away, the EU can't.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline papakota

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #164 on: July 27, 2016, 10:16:18 AM »
Trenchcoat,

I don't know and quite frankly, I don't care. My personal opinion is that this whole idea of EU confederation was stupid to begin with. It must be a FEDERATION, ie. United States of Europe. One language, one army, one foreign policy, one immigration policy. And the subjects of that federation would get some limited local powers, kinda what US' states have. Everyone is the same. No Brits and no Polish, just European. Then your concern about East European immigrants would vaporize. In America you can't say in New York... Oh, I don't want these poor people from Wyoming to come to us! In Toronto you can't say, Oh I don't want these poor people from Maritime provinces to come to us. And it all makes sense if people are EQUAL. But in Europe people aren't equal. That's why you distinguish between Brits and Polish etc. And since in Europe people aren't equal, then it will affect also Russian women who marry UK citizens. That's exactly what I was telling from the very start. Actually Russian women would be in a worse situation than East Europeans, since they (women) aren't EU citizens.
And that's why both world wars happened in Europe and not in America or Australia.
Well, if you enjoy hating people of a different background and once in a while conduct a world war, then Brexit is a fabulous idea in that case. That was the main reason for EU, not housing projects' waiting lines.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 10:17:52 AM by papakota »

Offline lyndontom

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #165 on: July 27, 2016, 10:28:03 AM »

All EU citizens have mobility rights, including working in the UK.  They have rights to benefits after a short period, including welfare, housing, and medical care.  They even have rights to family benefits for children who are no longer in the UK.  That was part of what Brexit was about.  The pressures put on the system for council houses, on the NHS, and on schooling for Europeans who have every right to those very benefits was what drove Brexit.  It wasn't about the Swedish students there, or the German bankers in London, or the French engineers.
It wasn't xenophobia.  It was a population exploding at a far higher rate than the country, and particularly, its infrastructure, could absorb.  When women are giving birth at home because hospitals are full, and children are being denied places in their local school because it's too full, when you can't obtain an appointment with a physician as they are booked solid for two months, or you are waiting for a council house for years as you are bumped by a family that just arrived from Gdansk, then you are going to ask questions about the numbers of people pouring into your country.  Note, these things affect mostly the working class, who rely on these services.  We can argue this is the fault of government, which did not plan well to absorb newcomers, but that doesn't help the working class who are relying on those services.


As someone living in the north of England, where the majority of people voted to leave the EU, Boethius has nailed it 100% in my opinion. I rely on OSW's, but there's a far wider picture than being 'xenophobic' as papakota describes it for voting in favour of Brexit.

Wow, you've painted such a happy picture. But something tells me that in a real life it's gonna be less happy. If everything was so easy, half of the UK would have brought foreign young and attractive spouses.I highly doubt that British government would be so eager to give benefits to a new IMMIGRANT. Normally everywhere it's strictly FORBIDDEN (in Russia or the US). Called "A public charge" in the US, for example and it's a ground for inadmissibility there, BTW. As per pregnancy, I don't know many Russian women who jump into being pregnant from pretty much foreign strangers. They (Russian women that is) aren't that stupid, trust me!P.S. As per Ukraine... I think JayH pretty much expressed my feelings too. I'm just afraid to talk, considering where I am and also I'm just being polite here... Though I'm far from supporting Ukrainian nationalists or any nationalists for that matter. In the countries of immigrants like the US, Canada and Australia it's much easier for a newcomer to assimilate. Because general population is far less nationalistic and xenophobic.


Unfortunately, you've shown a complete lack of a grasp of reality. You were the one to raise the subject of Irish nationals then quickly tried to bury it's relevance because what you wrote was ridiculous.


 I've never been in the UK, nor I really know the situation there in regard to EU nationals.



Nothing more to add.

Offline papakota

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #166 on: July 27, 2016, 03:49:04 PM »
I didn't raise the subject of Irish nationals living in the UK. I was talking about Russian women. It's the others here kept talking about Ukraine, East Europeans and Canadian citizens who belong to visible minority groups. That's what literally I wrote 3 days ago:
"I don't care about Irish citizens living in the UK. I might be right or wrong, but what's the difference if it's an off topic here"
So don't lie here!
What Brexit has to do with Russian women in the UK? I don't know why you keep bringing it up.
The reality is that people here told you that it had cost them tens of thousands of dollars from start to finish to get married to Russian women and everything else that surrounds it. And I don't believe that in a such an expensive country like the UK it's gonna be much cheaper. End of story!

« Last Edit: July 27, 2016, 03:52:17 PM by papakota »

Offline lyndontom

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #167 on: July 28, 2016, 12:57:08 AM »
I didn't raise the subject of Irish nationals living in the UK. I was talking about Russian women. It's the others here kept talking about Ukraine, East Europeans and Canadian citizens who belong to visible minority groups. That's what literally I wrote 3 days ago:
"I don't care about Irish citizens living in the UK. I might be right or wrong, but what's the difference if it's an off topic here"
So don't lie here!
What Brexit has to do with Russian women in the UK? I don't know why you keep bringing it up.
The reality is that people here told you that it had cost them tens of thousands of dollars from start to finish to get married to Russian women and everything else that surrounds it. And I don't believe that in a such an expensive country like the UK it's gonna be much cheaper. End of story!


Nobody would have ever referred to Ireland or the Irish had you not brought it up first. I'm not for one second saying bringing a FSU wife to the UK will be cheaper than anywhere else. When my father's wife moved here she had to sign a document to say that she would not use the National Health Service without paying for a specified time since receiving her spousal visa.I'm sure there are positives and negatives, as with everything.


My point was simply to challenge your argument that it would be more difficult for a FSU woman to assimilate into life in the UK because its not as foreigner-tolerant, or 'Xenophobic' as you put it. Considering you've never set foot in the UK, I find it difficult to see how you can come to such a conclusion whether we are discussing FSU women (which you're not) or moving to another country (which you've never been to).

Offline papakota

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #168 on: July 28, 2016, 03:07:50 AM »

Nobody would have ever referred to Ireland or the Irish had you not brought it up first. I'm not for one second saying bringing a FSU wife to the UK will be cheaper than anywhere else. When my father's wife moved here she had to sign a document to say that she would not use the National Health Service without paying for a specified time since receiving her spousal visa.I'm sure there are positives and negatives, as with everything.
My point was simply to challenge your argument that it would be more difficult for a FSU woman to assimilate into life in the UK because its not as foreigner-tolerant, or 'Xenophobic' as you put it. Considering you've never set foot in the UK, I find it difficult to see how you can come to such a conclusion whether we are discussing FSU women (which you're not) or moving to another country (which you've never been to).

Here's my FIRST post in this thread:  Reply #128 on: July 25, 2016, 01:43:28 PM
RE-READ it and show me a single word about Irish or East Europeans in the UK or Canadians in Canada, Brexit and all the other totally irrelevant stuff that some people in this thread brought up. Again, either you're dreaming or lying.
It's when OTHERS brought up comparisons to Irish or East Europeans living and working in the UK, I said what I said, whether it's right or wrong. That's first.
Secondly, USA and UK are not all that different as you pretend. Moreover, I reside in Europe now (unless you claim that Moscow is in Africa) and I married Russian women two times (the second one is my current wife) and I was married also twice to US women and I really know well about the subject. I also know the prices in the UK. My personal opinion is that bringing a Russian woman to the US or UK is not very different in terms of expenses. That's all. And nobody here proved it otherwise yet. So I don't know why you told that I wasn't competent enough to have a say in a matter.
I'm not less (if not more) competent than others here. Something tells me though that East Europeans in the UK now REALLY wish they were UK citizens, unlike what people here try to tell me. Bring me Irish and Polish guys living and working in the UK, then we'll talk. And so far this whole argument is just BS, if you ask me.


« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 03:21:30 AM by papakota »

Offline lyndontom

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #169 on: July 28, 2016, 05:05:07 AM »
Yes, I must have dreamt it....

Irish is also foreign in the UK.


Nobody here is saying the UK and USA are all that different. It was YOU who made the point that it would be so much more difficult to settle into life in the UK than USA and you pointed to reasons of tolerance and xenophobia, not finance.

Offline papakota

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #170 on: July 28, 2016, 07:21:19 AM »
Nobody here is saying the UK and USA are all that different. It was YOU who made the point that it would be so much more difficult to settle into life in the UK than USA and you pointed to reasons of tolerance and xenophobia, not finance.[/font]
Yes, yes, yes! And I still insist that it's harder for an outsider to assimilate in Europe (even in the UK), than in countries like US, Canada or Australia, ie. countries of immigrants. And Brexit is a best proof. In what sense a Polish immigrant family in the UK is less worthy of a government housing help than "aboriginal" British? And all I hear in this thread is Brits complaining about this and that and they blame intra european migration. Logically it means (to me) that UK natives feel that they deserve some special treatment. And why is that? 'cos they think that they should be more worthy in the eyes of the UK government. If it's not a nationalism or xenophobia, then what is it?
P.S. And the only difference between Brexit and a Kristalnacht in 1938 is that due to lack of immigrants in Germany, they decided to persecute local Jews. And less violence, of course too. But it's the same general direction. It's just a matter of a distance to me.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2016, 07:32:57 AM by papakota »

Online Faux Pas

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #171 on: July 28, 2016, 07:30:20 AM »
Yes, yes, yes! And I still insist that it's harder for an outsider to assimilate in Europe (even in the UK), than in countries like US, Canada or Australia, ie. countries of immigrants. And Brexit is a best proof. In what sense a Polish immigrant family in the UK is less worthy of a government housing help than "aboriginal" British? And all I hear in this thread is Brits complaining about this and that and they blame intra european migration. Logically it means (to me) that UK natives feel that they deserve some special treatment. And why is that? 'cos they think that they should be more worthy in the eyes of the UK government. If it's not a nationalism or xenophobia, then what is it?

Well, they are for the most part "footing the bill", no?

Offline papakota

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #172 on: July 28, 2016, 07:36:01 AM »
Well, they are for the most part "footing the bill", no?
I added this later into my previous post..."P.S. And the only difference between Brexit and a Kristalnacht in 1938 is that due to lack of immigrants in Germany, they decided to persecute local Jews. And less violence, of course too. But it's the same general direction. It's just a matter of a distance to me."
German Jews weren't on welfare and I'm pretty sure they were more wealthy than average Germans. Didn't help them much.
Polish people work in the UK, pay taxes in the UK. Why they aren't eligible for a welfare then?

Offline dragonkid

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #173 on: July 28, 2016, 07:39:31 AM »
Well, they are for the most part "footing the bill", no?

No they aren't, the people who pay taxes are. The ones on benefits voted out, they are the ones that need to be booted, not the migrants from eastern europe.

Papa is sort of right, i live in london, here xenophobia is nearly non existent. I lived in newcastle for around 5 months, it was terrible there. I dated one woman from eastern europe who lived there, she got her share of abuse, she was studying and working. People just want to make Britain english again, yes they are well mannered and polite, but you can't foot the countries expenses on making the UK English again.  It was a terrible decision,and we are going to pay dearly, i just hope the first ones to suffer are the ones who voted out.
Not all of us Brits have terrible teeth, right Msmoby?

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Re: Investing $50K in you or a dream RW?
« Reply #174 on: July 28, 2016, 07:53:14 AM »
I added this later into my previous post..."P.S. And the only difference between Brexit and a Kristalnacht in 1938 is that due to lack of immigrants in Germany, they decided to persecute local Jews. And less violence, of course too. But it's the same general direction. It's just a matter of a distance to me."
German Jews weren't on welfare and I'm pretty sure they were more wealthy than average Germans. Didn't help them much.
Polish people work in the UK, pay taxes in the UK. Why they aren't eligible for a welfare then?

I'm not a Brit and I don't know if Poles qualify for welfare in Britain. But, logic does dictate that the tax paying Brits fund the British welfare system.

 

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