Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Introductions and Ice-Breaker => Topic started by: Lord of the Dance on December 23, 2017, 10:06:05 PM
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Greetings to all on this board, my name is Doug and I'm a young fellow from Pennsylvania, United States who's interested in the prospect of a R/U partner. I've actually been a member of RUA for a while now and I'm popping on over here at the recommendation of my friend Maxx. I'll probably be more of a lurker here than anything else but I don't want anyone to think I'm unfriendly either, so I'm posting a little introduction. Looking forward to doing some learning on this forum as well. Doug S.
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Welcome . . . but this is not a venture appropriate for 'young fellas.'
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Welcome . . . but this is not a venture appropriate for 'young fellas.'
So they say; what are your notions as to why? Thanks for the welcome ML.
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Welcome to the forum Doug. If you don't find something that answers your questions, feel free to ask questions. Lurking doesn't always give an answer. The reason young guys should stay out of this is because it will leave more women to the older guys in are in greater need. Actually most young guys are better looking and more physically fit but aren't financially capable of seeing this to the end.
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Welcome to the forum Doug. If you don't find something that answers your questions, feel free to ask questions. Lurking doesn't always give an answer. The reason young guys should stay out of this is because it will leave more women to the older guys in are in greater need. Actually most young guys are better looking and more physically fit but aren't financially capable of seeing this to the end.
Thanks for the welcome BillyB. Not sure if I'm really any better looking or more physically fit than anyone else here, but I get the picture. And I certainly intend not to partake in any date snatching! As my dad says, 'there are plenty of fish in the sea.' Happy to be here amongst some obviously experienced people, hoping to glean a lot of good insight.
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My recommendation to LD is to understand he a lot of time on his side and doesn't need to swoop in and quick find him one like us oldsters. The FSU has a lot of other opportunities in it besides wife attainment. The later will happen in its due course of course. The best thing for him is get himself internationalized. Become a world traveler. Get some stamps in his passport. Like the Rod Stewart song 'Young Turks' from 40 years ago,
We got just one shot of life, let's take it while we're still not afraid.
Because life is so brief and time is a thief when you're undecided.
And like a fistful of sand, it can slip right through your hands.
Young hearts be free tonight. Time is on your side,
Don't let them put you down, don't let 'em push you around,
Don't let 'em ever change your point of view.
At least that is what I think
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Why is " a young fellow from PA" looking outside the USA?
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Welcome to RWD Doug. Maxx is very knowledgeable and gives great advice and I am sure you will enjoy it here. Although I don't know you all that well, I do know you enough to understand that you are very smart and very inquisitive and I will be surprised if you are "mostly a lurker here"
Since we both live in the same part of the world I can understand why you want to look overseas. W. PA is not exactly a dating paradise.
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. W. PA is not exactly a dating paradise.
Why?
There are hundreds of thousands young single girls in PA.
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Why?
There are hundreds of thousands young single girls in PA.
But they don't want us oldsters. Frankly I don't want them either.
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But they don't want us oldsters. Frankly I don't want them either.
Our TS claims he is young.
Yet, it would be nice to hear his reasons.
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. Frankly I don't want them either.
Why?
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Welcome to the forum. I am also from Central PA.
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Why?
There are hundreds of thousands young single girls in PA.
I don't want to date girls in PA because they're over 2500 miles away from me so I go to the FSU. I'll recommend Lord of the Dance do what I did. Date as many women as he can at home and keep his options open overseas. Even if he's wanting to marry someone from the FSU instead of someone at home, by staying active dating it will improve his confidence and social skills with women. A higher level of confidence and social skills will allow him catch higher quality women and a lot of women.
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My recommendation to LD is to understand he a lot of time on his side and doesn't need to swoop in and quick find him one like us oldsters. The FSU has a lot of other opportunities in it besides wife attainment. The later will happen in its due course of course. The best thing for him is get himself internationalized. Become a world traveler. Get some stamps in his passport. Like the Rod Stewart song 'Young Turks' from 40 years ago,
We got just one shot of life, let's take it while we're still not afraid.
Because life is so brief and time is a thief when you're undecided.
And like a fistful of sand, it can slip right through your hands.
Young hearts be free tonight. Time is on your side,
Don't let them put you down, don't let 'em push you around,
Don't let 'em ever change your point of view.
At least that is what I think
That is indeed a good song Maxx, quite inspirational to me now that you mention it! I think you're talking sense when you suggest getting 'out on the town.' Heck, I've barely left the States in my life... save for Canada I'm no international voyager and I think it's about time to change that.
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Why is " a young fellow from PA" looking outside the USA?
For a number of reasons, really. Where I hail from (a small town in north western Pennsylvania) we suffer from tremendous economic depression because the main industries of our area left the region long ago (70's / 80's). Consequently, young people of both sexes now flee this valley like a house on fire, seeking better opportunities elsewhere. I knew some truly swell young gals in high school, but every single one of them (and I mean literally every last one) has left our hometown for 'greener pastures.' There's just not a lot left here for the decent single guy, hence my notion to look elsewhere.
Now why the FSU? I perceive women from Eastern Europe to be more intrepid and adventurous than women from the West (important qualities to me). I also appreciate their embrace of traditional values. Obviously I'm speaking in generalities, but it is my opinion that I can do so when referring to an entire region of the world (surely there are mates who'll fit the bill). The most attractive women I've ever seen have come from the FSU and I enjoy a good challenge!
I will note that in my book, Australia comes in a close second to the FSU (especially Ukraine at this point) in my search for a partner. I've never been to Australia, but it's on my list for sure. Doug S.
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Welcome Doug, I think Maxx is right getting going early in this venture is a very good idea. That doesn't just mean going over and meeting these women but also getting into a good financial position if or already there. Doing this will stand you in good stead for when you hit your thirties with these women. Going over and meeting a few will also give you experience that will save you time in your thirties in meeting the right one. It may take a couple of years or so to get into the swing of things so better done in your twenties I think. If you want women to take you seriously I would put in your profile that despite your young years you are capable and able already at present to support a family, this is what they will want to hear, good luck :)
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My recommendation to LD is to understand he a lot of time on his side and doesn't need to swoop in and quick find him one like us oldsters. The FSU has a lot of other opportunities in it besides wife attainment. The later will happen in its due course of course. The best thing for him is get himself internationalized. Become a world traveler. Get some stamps in his passport. Like the Rod Stewart song 'Young Turks' from 40 years ago,
We got just one shot of life, let's take it while we're still not afraid.
Because life is so brief and time is a thief when you're undecided.
And like a fistful of sand, it can slip right through your hands.
Young hearts be free tonight. Time is on your side,
Don't let them put you down, don't let 'em push you around,
Don't let 'em ever change your point of view.
At least that is what I think
Song was released in 1981. For better or for worse, simply a ballad of a young rebellious teenage couple in love who run off together and start a family and a life for themselves. But interpretation can adapt any wording to mean whatever you would like. Carry on.
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Now why the FSU? I perceive women from Eastern Europe to be more intrepid and adventurous than women from the West (important qualities to me). I also appreciate their embrace of traditional values. Obviously I'm speaking in generalities, but it is my opinion that I can do so when referring to an entire region of the world (surely there are mates who'll fit the bill). The most attractive women I've ever seen have come from the FSU and I enjoy a good challenge!
Ask ML the REAL reason men look into FSU women....
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Welcome to RWD Doug. Maxx is very knowledgeable and gives great advice and I am sure you will enjoy it here. Although I don't know you all that well, I do know you enough to understand that you are very smart and very inquisitive and I will be surprised if you are "mostly a lurker here"
Since we both live in the same part of the world I can understand why you want to look overseas. W. PA is not exactly a dating paradise.
Thanks for the welcome Turboguy! Yeah, good old Pennsylvania ain't her old self anymore, now is she? Between the economic issues, blighted properties, gang activities, bad roads and the heroin epidemic things sure have changed for the worse. But despite these issues, I think it's still a pretty good place to reside (in this troubled world).
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I hail from (a small town in north western Pennsylvania) we suffer from tremendous economic depression because the main industries of our area left the region long ago (70's / 80's). Consequently, young people of both sexes now flee this valley like a house on fire, seeking better opportunities elsewhere. I knew some truly swell young gals in high school, but every single one of them (and I mean literally every last one) has left our hometown for 'greener pastures.' There's just not a lot left here for the decent single guy, hence my notion to look elsewhere.
You live in a small town people are fleeing from because there's little to no opportunity and you want to bring an FSU woman there? You may be a great guy but if she goes into extreme culture shock, things may not work out. You should focus on finding an FSU woman from a small town and be honest with all the ladies you communicate with the place your living at. Tell them people are leaving your town like it's a house on fire so there's no surprises when they decide to live with you in a house on fire.
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Welcome to the forum. I am also from Central PA.
Thank you for the welcome civi68. Nice to meet yet another board member from Pennsylvania.
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I don't want to date girls in PA because they're over 2500 miles away from me so I go to the FSU. I'll recommend Lord of the Dance do what I did. Date as many women as he can at home and keep his options open overseas. Even if he's wanting to marry someone from the FSU instead of someone at home, by staying active dating it will improve his confidence and social skills with women. A higher level of confidence and social skills will allow him catch higher quality women and a lot of women.
I certainly agree with the sentiment of 'keeping all avenues open.' If the girl I'm looking for would happen to move into my neighborhood tomorrow, this FSU stuff would be out the window pretty quick (though it's unlikely that'll happen). Neither of my parents support my idea of dating in the FSU, they actually have their own thoughts on who I might marry, but historically I've been rather stubborn when it comes to investigating my own ideas.
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Welcome Doug, I think Maxx is right getting going early in this venture is a very good idea. That doesn't just mean going over and meeting these women but also getting into a good financial position if or already there. Doing this will stand you in good stead for when you hit your thirties with these women. Going over and meeting a few will also give you experience that will save you time in your thirties in meeting the right one. It may take a couple of years or so to get into the swing of things so better done in your twenties I think. If you want women to take you seriously I would put in your profile that despite your young years you are capable and able already at present to support a family, this is what they will want to hear, good luck :)
Thanks for the welcome Trenchcoat (do I recognize your handle from RUA?).
As enthusiastic as I may be, I definitely understand that knowledge, patience and honesty are key in securing a good mate. I don't plan to rush anything, and as you suggest, 'getting in early' will only seem to aid in my search. I'm an only child without much extended family, so the prospect of minting a family of my own is appealing to me. This feeling stated, I do have standards. Unfortunately I won't accept children from previous marriages / partners. I don't doubt that there are many wonderful single women around the world that happen to have a child or two, but I feel strongly of having my own children (to note, I'm not a mean guy! We actually sponsor a few kiddos around the world).
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Song was released in 1981. For better or for worse, simply a ballad of a young rebellious teenage couple in love who run off together and start a family and a life for themselves. But interpretation can adapt any wording to mean whatever you would like. Carry on.
Ah yes, the story of the ages! I do like Rod's songwriting, though his voice does not appeal to my tastes.
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You live in a small town people are fleeing from because there's little to no opportunity and you want to bring an FSU woman there? You may be a great guy but if she goes into extreme culture shock, things may not work out. You should focus on finding an FSU woman from a small town and be honest with all the ladies you communicate with the place your living at. Tell them people are leaving your town like it's a house on fire so there's no surprises when they decide to live with you in a house on fire.
I understand your point and certainly plan to be honest about my hometown with any prospective partner, though you should know that my financial situation is vastly different from those around me and my dwellings are quite nice.
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Incidentally, Merry Christmas to all who celebrate it!
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Date as many women as he can at home and keep his options open overseas. Even if he's wanting to marry someone from the FSU instead of someone at home, by staying active dating it will improve his confidence and social skills with women. A higher level of confidence and social skills will allow him catch higher quality women and a lot of women.
Very good advice.
Spend as much time as you can with many women in any social and business setting as you can. It helps you to be able to talk and relate to them without any awkwardness or shyness.
I had been out of the dating scene for scores of years and was worrying about my abilities.
But I found that I had zero trouble when I began dating again . . . and I attribute this to the fact that in my business ventures I had been interacting with women of all ages for all these same scores of years that I had not been dating.
When I did begin dating again, most of the women remarked that it seemed like they had known me for years rather than for hours or days. This was because I had no unease around them, could immediately make them laugh and feel comfortable, etc., . . . because this was virtually the same as I had done in business situations for all those years.
So as Billy said . . . spend as much time as you can with and around women. Get comfortable with them and make them comfortable with you, even when you are not on dates.
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Thanks for the welcome Trenchcoat (do I recognize your handle from RUA?).
As enthusiastic as I may be, I definitely understand that knowledge, patience and honesty are key in securing a good mate. I don't plan to rush anything, and as you suggest, 'getting in early' will only seem to aid in my search. I'm an only child without much extended family, so the prospect of minting a family of my own is appealing to me. This feeling stated, I do have standards. Unfortunately I won't accept children from previous marriages / partners. I don't doubt that there are many wonderful single women around the world that happen to have a child or two, but I feel strongly of having my own children (to note, I'm not a mean guy! We actually sponsor a few kiddos around the world).
Yep I'm the same one as on RUA though I tend to spend most of my time here as its more dedicated to dating in the FSU. More topics on FSU dating I think are covered here though I find RUA a bit more down to earth which can be a nice change.
I like yourself would like my own family, you kind of realise as you get older that your old folks aren't going to be around forever more which is depressing in itself. I've got some close family but it would still essentially be me by myself and maybe a dog. Most of the women around my way and I guess yours know that they can take their pick of the guys, you don't have to be that much off the pace to miss out. That and some girls are just gold diggers so you really need to watch out. Fortunately the situation in the FSU is completely different, there are loads of girls to date and its easy hunting out there. I tend to prefer women without children too simply because I do not want the immediate commitment of someone else's child and all the added complexities it brings, this search normally throws up enough problems without adding more. That said a woman with a child will normally greet a WM warmly with legs wide open. They will unlikely get any other guy visit them so they can't afford to be fussy. Local guys see them as only fit for a good lay anyway so if a WM who can support a family turns up and may marry them they tend to play all in. In all honesty some women with children can be pretty fit. I've seen a few 10's on Mamba compared with 7 or 8's for without children, I think this is because all the local guys hit on them first as top priority so they get pregnant then of course the number of local guys interested in them plummet as none of them want to get saddled paying for someone else's kid.
Anyhue, I would get going if I were you on some of the free dating FSU sites and just try and learn about FSW to start with, no need to go out there immediately just learn about all the sorts of characters you get turn up, good & bad, ins & outs, I think doing so will save you much time later.
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Now why the FSU? I perceive women from Eastern Europe to be more intrepid and adventurous than women from the West (important qualities to me). I also appreciate their embrace of traditional values. Obviously I'm speaking in generalities, but it is my opinion that I can do so when referring to an entire region of the world (surely there are mates who'll fit the bill).
How can someone be adventurous enough to try new things and yet remain traditional? :-\ You have me confused
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How can someone be adventurous enough to try new things and yet remain traditional? :-\ You have me confused
You make a good point. I notice a lot younger FSU women getting tattoos, breast implants and 6 inch heels. Of course those might be the exceptions and not the rule. I've heard women from Western Ukraine are considered more traditional, true Ukrainians unlike those of the East. I've heard Georgian women to be the most traditional of all and rarely marry outside their nationality. Although I know a few exceptions including my landlady married to a Russian man. She told me that when Georgian men marry Ukrainian women the children are never raised as Georgians. In Georgia Georgians take two things very serious, their religion and their cuisine. Never criticize either. But I stray a bit from the topic.
Doll asked my why I said, "I don't want them either." I meant that I am not interested in young women. To me young is anyone under the age of forty. Ideally a woman in her 50s would be the best choice for me for a life without a lot of drama.
LD you're in a not so good age to finding a woman for a permanent life together. Women your age, especially younger, are usually not serious about marriage. One problem you would have is finding one who is truly grown up. Most people change as they leave their early mid twenties. For many at age 25 there is strong desire to be married. In the Philippines they called those that haven't married by 25 as "Christmas Cake." Meaning after the 25th they are become day-old and beyond their expiration date. That is that culture. I believe it true with other traditional cultures as well. Then when they hit the age of 29 or so they go through mid-life crisis and want children. I seem to remember an old time poster by the name of Ken that had that problem. The twenties are a really mixed up time for women. Not so much for the men, as they don't take life serious. But the women do, usually. You'll find a lot of party girls in that age, but who wants any of them for a life time partner? I speak in generalities in this paragraph. Lots and lots of exceptions I know.
My advice is get yourself a passport. The one with the double amount of pages, 52 I believe. Then book yourself a flight over here. Just be a tourist. Ride the river boats and visit the museums. Don't worry about doing it with a woman by your side. Just have fun that a single guy can have before life's commitments (usually from a woman/wife) descends on him. Do things. Go visit Dracula's castle in Romania. See the historical sites of WW2 in Ukraine and Poland. Do some volunteer work teaching English. You'll meet lots of people that way. Maybe a young woman that is cool to have fun with.
LD, when you read these boards you get the spirit of the sense of the urgency to quick find a wife. But this comes from men who are not in your position. You have more time to do it than they do. They are limited to a few weeks a year of vacation time per year, a business that takes a lot of their time or my case a limited number of years, period. Don't let this spirit of urgency mix with your spirit to find a mate, to mate. You got lots of time. I'd work on making an interesting life first. Really find out who you are. You have many interests that have told me about. Traveling about as I suggest you do might find another one that really gets your attention. If you find a woman that has the same interest, and if it is of a certain type, then you might have the basis of the strongest of friendships. And of course a possible life time partner.
I recently read a story about Aristotle views on friendship. A marriage or a lifetime partner would be best if it was based on third type of friendship.
Aristotle outlined two kinds of common friendships that are more accidental than intentional.
The first is a friendship of utility. In this kind of relationship, the two parties are not in it for the affection of one another, but more so because each party receives a benefit in exchange.
It’s not permanent in nature, and whenever the benefit ends, so does the relationship that brought the parties together. Aristotle observed this to be more common in older folks.
An example of this would be a business or a work relationship. You may enjoy the time you spend together, but once the situation changes, so does the nature of your connection.
Similarly, the second kind of accidental friendship is one based on pleasure. This one, however, is more common in people that are younger. It’s the kind of relationship frequently seen among college friends or people who participate on the same sports team.
The source of such a friendship is more emotional, and it’s often the most short-lived of the relationships. It’s fine for as long as the two parties gain enjoyment through a mutual interest in something external, but it ends as soon as either tastes or preferences change.
Many young people go through different phases in their views on enjoyment, and quite often, the people in their lives tend to change as the phase they’re in recalibrates over time.
Most of the friendships that many of us have fall into these two categories, and while Aristotle didn’t necessarily see them as bad, he did feel that their depth limited their quality.
It’s fine, and even necessary, to have accidental friendships, but there is far more out there.
The friendship of the good
The final form of friendship that Aristotle outlined is also the most preferable out of the three. Rather than utility or pleasure, this kind of relationship is based on a mutual appreciation of the virtues that the other party holds dear. It’s the people themselves and the qualities that they represent that provides the incentive for the two parties to be in each other’s lives.
Rather than being short-lived, such a relationship often lasts until the end, and there is quite generally a base level of goodness required in each person for it to exist in the first place.
People that lack empathy or care for others seldom develop these kinds of relationships because, more often than not, their preference is to look for pleasure or utility. On top of that, friendships of virtue take time and trust to build. They depend on mutual growth occurring.
You’re a lot more likely to connect at this level with someone when you’ve seen them at their worst and watched them grow from that or if you’ve both endured mutual hardship together.
Beyond the depth and intimacy, the beauty of such relationships is that they automatically include the rewards of the other two kinds of friendship. They’re pleasurable and beneficial.
When you respect a person and care for them, you gain joy from being with them. If they’re a good enough person to warrant such a relationship to begin with, then there is utility, too.
These relationships require time and intention, but when they do blossom, they do so with trust, admiration, and awe. They bring with them some of the sweeter joys that life has to offer.
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Interesting re Aristotle Maxx; thanks for posting.
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How can someone be adventurous enough to try new things and yet remain traditional? :-\ You have me confused
It takes an adventurous person to move to a new country to start. Travel, new experiences, open to different cultures, etc are all things I find many FSUW are generally more open to. Yet they cling to certain traditional values. Family is one. Not into drugs like as many women in the West. "Home cooked meals are better for you". At least this is what I have found in my wife. The best from both Worlds.
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It takes an adventurous person to move to a new country to start. Travel, new experiences, open to different cultures, etc are all things I find many FSUW are generally more open to. Yet they cling to certain traditional values. Family is one. Not into drugs like as many women in the West. "Home cooked meals are better for you". At least this is what I have found in my wife. The best from both Worlds.
I think more often than not, 'looking for better life' is reason I hear most, especially with kids in tow.
Who knows what will happen when an FSUW is exposed to western culture and life. I think the true person comes out. Some have trouble adapting while others are like fish in water, I have seen more of the latter. The 'russian' women I have met here(LA) are exactly like any women you will meet here, loving the good life!!
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I think more often than not, 'looking for better life' is reason I hear most, especially with kids in tow.
Who knows what will happen when an FSUW is exposed to western culture and life. I think the true person comes out. Some have trouble adapting while others are like fish in water, I have seen more of the latter.
Depends on the woman and set of circumstances I imagine. But most of the women we know did not have children, were good looking younger women, and had many options. They were looking for a partner, not a better life.
We know a few that were escaping something, those women seem to have had a harder time.
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From what I can make out young women in their early twenties or younger that are attractive and without children and character flaws probably have a girl few options locally. Those that are hitting around mid twenties or older without children the options I get the impression are getting thin on the ground. Maybe not so in the larger richer cities in the FSU but more so in the smaller poorer cities. These women may have been left on the shelf for a reason, too materialistic, too moralistic, mental health problems, difficult personalities, not that attractive, career mindset, etc. I was messaging one girl a couple of years ago and she wasn't quite right up top I don't think, in the end messaging her became impossible she was just so difficult to communicate too.
That said I don't think the situation is nearly that bad as in the UK. Here the women really are a tough task that remain, most for many will be impossible to deal with even if you bend over backwards for them and try ever trick in the book. Problem with many FSU women is that some fail to realise that they have a problem in a certain area as above that is screwing them up, telling them doesn't often seem to register with them. As is often said attitude is one off the hardest things to change in a person. I think many FSW turn to foreign dating as it is the only viable option left to many. On meeting though I'm not sure many of these women realise that it has to work for both sides not just them.
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From what I can make out young women in their early twenties or younger that are attractive and without children and character flaws probably have a girl few options locally.
...many options both locally and internationally. With the internet and social media good looking women have more options than most men realize.
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You make a good point. I notice a lot younger FSU women getting tattoos, breast implants and 6 inch heels. Of course those might be the exceptions and not the rule. I've heard women from Western Ukraine are considered more traditional, true Ukrainians unlike those of the East. I've heard Georgian women to be the most traditional of all and rarely marry outside their nationality. Although I know a few exceptions including my landlady married to a Russian man. She told me that when Georgian men marry Ukrainian women the children are never raised as Georgians. In Georgia Georgians take two things very serious, their religion and their cuisine. Never criticize either. But I stray a bit from the topic.
LD you're in a not so good age to finding a woman for a permanent life together. Women your age, especially younger, are usually not serious about marriage. One problem you would have is finding one who is truly grown up. Most people change as they leave their early mid twenties. For many at age 25 there is strong desire to be married. In the Philippines they called those that haven't married by 25 as "Christmas Cake." Meaning after the 25th they are become day-old and beyond their expiration date. That is that culture. I believe it true with other traditional cultures as well. Then when they hit the age of 29 or so they go through mid-life crisis and want children. I seem to remember an old time poster by the name of Ken that had that problem. The twenties are a really mixed up time for women. Not so much for the men, as they don't take life serious. But the women do, usually. You'll find a lot of party girls in that age, but who wants any of them for a life time partner? I speak in generalities in this paragraph. Lots and lots of exceptions I know.
My advice is get yourself a passport. The one with the double amount of pages, 52 I believe. Then book yourself a flight over here. Just be a tourist. Ride the river boats and visit the museums. Don't worry about doing it with a woman by your side. Just have fun that a single guy can have before life's commitments (usually from a woman/wife) descends on him. Do things. Go visit Dracula's castle in Romania. See the historical sites of WW2 in Ukraine and Poland. Do some volunteer work teaching English. You'll meet lots of people that way. Maybe a young woman that is cool to have fun with.
LD, when you read these boards you get the spirit of the sense of the urgency to quick find a wife. But this comes from men who are not in your position. You have more time to do it than they do. They are limited to a few weeks a year of vacation time per year, a business that takes a lot of their time or my case a limited number of years, period. Don't let this spirit of urgency mix with your spirit to find a mate, to mate. You got lots of time. I'd work on making an interesting life first. Really find out who you are. You have many interests that have told me about. Traveling about as I suggest you do might find another one that really gets your attention. If you find a woman that has the same interest, and if it is of a certain type, then you might have the basis of the strongest of friendships. And of course a possible life time partner.
I recently read a story about Aristotle views on friendship. A marriage or a lifetime partner would be best if it was based on third type of friendship.
Rather than being short-lived, such a relationship often lasts until the end, and there is quite generally a base level of goodness required in each person for it to exist in the first place.[/font]
People that lack empathy or care for others seldom develop these kinds of relationships because, more often than not, their preference is to look for pleasure or utility. On top of that, friendships of virtue take time and trust to build. They depend on mutual growth occurring.
Beyond the depth and intimacy, the beauty of such relationships is that they automatically include the rewards of the other two kinds of friendship. They’re pleasurable and beneficial.[/font]
When you respect a person and care for them, you gain joy from being with them. If they’re a good enough person to warrant such a relationship to begin with, then there is utility, too.
These relationships require time and intention, but when they do blossom, they do so with trust, admiration, and awe. They bring with them some of the sweeter joys that life has to offer.
What a thoughtful post Maxx! Like all generalisations, I agree there'll exist exceptions. On the whole though, I really concur with your observations as to the "expiration date" of the girls in the FSU. The same cultural norm is pretty much seen across Southeast Asia too, as I have many relatives and friends scattered across that region who will happily agree.
Regarding Aristotle's views on friendship, perhaps it is true. However, I do not think it necessarily means this third type of friendship can last forever even whilst both are still alive and well.
Even if a girl respects and loves a man who is like a role-model (leader) to her, I doubt she will remain with said man IF the man turns abusive, ultra-controlling, playboy, blames everything on her and makes her suffer continuously. Eventually, there would probably come a point when she loses all love, trust and respect with him and leaves him.
It takes an adventurous person to move to a new country to start. Travel, new experiences, open to different cultures, etc are all things I find many FSUW are generally more open to. Yet they cling to certain traditional values. Family is one. Not into drugs like as many women in the West. "Home cooked meals are better for you". At least this is what I have found in my wife. The best from both Worlds.
Maybe "it takes a courageous person to move to a new country to start" is a more accurate statement? I do not think adventurous people would actually be able to settle down successfully as they will always be seeking new thrills and excitement elsewhere? Would they not?
I think I understand you better now. I think the "specific" traditional values that you and OP are referring to may be part of "christian values" as well. Perhaps being adventurous and traditional may be mutually-exclusive but I still highly doubt they are.
I believe the moment we are born, we are more or less a clean slate with perhaps a few personality quirks built in. Then as we grow up, we change, eventually developing our own views and becoming very much unchangeable after the age of 30. People keep saying FSU women "grow up" faster, but I highly doubt that implies their character can be fixed far earlier.
Notwithstanding that, how long do you think it will take before a young woman with "traditional" values, makes new friends that advise her on what's possible within the laws in the West, discovers the countless numbers of guys willing to hook up no strings attached, loses her feminine side, and becomes more or less "Americanized" and loses said values? :rolleyes:
In regards to the drug problem, erm, are you absolutely sure it's worse in the West? I mean the last time I read the WHO reports just a year back, there was a conclusion that there's still a massive, under-prioritised, growing epidemic of drug abuse (eg. Meth) in the FSU especially in Russia which has coincidentally led to a big growing increase in HIV cases as well due to the use of needles for intravenous drug injections under non-sanitary conditions.
Wiki gives a decent overview. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_in_Russia
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Maybe "it takes a courageous person to move to a new country to start" is a more accurate statement? I do not think adventurous people would actually be able to settle down successfully as they will always be seeking new thrills and excitement elsewhere? Would they not?
I would defer to "adventurous". Nobody mentioned settling down. My wife and I travel quite a bit. In fact she travels extensively for work.
I think I understand you better now. I think the "specific" traditional values that you and OP are referring to may be part of "christian values" as well. Perhaps being adventurous and traditional may be mutually-exclusive but I still highly doubt they are.
I am an atheist, but sure I can appreciate some christian values. Some I disagree with. It will really depend.
Notwithstanding that, how long do you think it will take before a young woman with "traditional" values, makes new friends that advise her on what's possible within the laws in the West, discovers the countless numbers of guys willing to hook up no strings attached, loses her feminine side, and becomes more or less "Americanized" and loses said values? :rolleyes:
My wife has been here 6 years and has not changed very much (besides trading in high heels for flip flops and wearing less makeup). Neither have many of the women from the FSU we know. Family and home is still very important to them. Moreso than most Western women. But that is my experience and the women we know. Of course every individual is different.
In regards to the drug problem, erm, are you absolutely sure it's worse in the West? I mean the last time I read the WHO reports just a year back, there was a conclusion that there's still a massive, under-prioritised, growing epidemic of drug abuse (eg. Meth) in the FSU especially in Russia which has coincidentally led to a big growing increase in HIV cases as well due to the use of needles for intravenous drug injections under non-sanitary conditions.
I am very familiar with HIV in the FSU. You can go back and look at my posts on this forum and the other. My wife is from Odesa, the epicenter of HIV in Ukraine. My understanding is that drug use is split among different groups. Those that use are generally looked down on and use heavy drugs like vint, heroin and boltushka. Much of the IV use occurs in prisons. The other group will not touch any drugs, only drink. Of course some will smoke Georgian weed or do extacy in the club scene these days. But for the general population drug use is nothing compared to the West.
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Depends on the woman and set of circumstances I imagine. But most of the women we know did not have children, were good looking younger women, and had many options. They were looking for a partner, not a better life.
We know a few that were escaping something, those women seem to have had a harder time.
Yea, looking for a partner that is generous, secure, well off....just to know a couple. I doubt very many girls would leave their homeland to struggle in a new culture.....they can easily struggle at home.
One's that escaped were doing very well as far as I can see. Something about a girl with a Russian accent speaking English catches everyone's attention, never mind she is dressed to kill!! :-)) At least in LA, that's what I see. A few years back I had a Moldovian girl with me, she took me to a few 'Russian events', my God a thousand people dressed fashionably(FSU men and women), heard mostly Russian language....and you could tell there was some money flowing around there. In all my years I had no idea that group was functioning!!!
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Yea, looking for a partner that is generous, secure, well off....just to know a couple. I doubt very many girls would leave their homeland to struggle in a new culture.....they can easily struggle at home.
Guess I just got lucky then. My wife was doing quite well back home and we have certainly had struggles here. She has stood by my side through all the ups and downs. And we have had a few real shitty downs.
My wife works for the one percent btw. Guys that probably make the wealthy at those parties look like paupers. She could certainly go that route if she so chooses. Has been offerred many times. But some women want a solid partner.
My buddy lives in LA. He dates gorgeous Russian women and is a broke ass dude. He's a musician, girls like him because he is fun.
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...many options both locally and internationally. With the internet and social media good looking women have more options than most men realize.
Theoretically yes they do but getting a guy internationally to visit is another matter. Apart from Keyboard Romeos some guys may just opt to chase another girl. So while she would be appealing to many a guy in the west few western guys embark on the journey. A hot FSW would be a magnet for many local guys were she to arrive in the UK or US. Many hot FSW no doubt crave this access but are imprisoned in their country unless they use a WM as a mule or get wealthy enough to satisfy visa requirements. Otherwise there looks are an aging asset. It's why I've gone off going for girls in their mid twenties as I think many would just view me as a way to access those WM. Most of the girls I'm now looking at are 30 plus so as long as I'm reasonably careful I figure I could stand a decent chance of avoiding local guys in home country problem. The last girl I was with was pretty much a 10 in the looks department facially, I could just visualise all the younger local guys fawning over her like a rash, but as it is she's still stuck in Ukraine without easy access to any of those guys :)
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Guess I just got lucky then. My wife was doing quite well back home and we have certainly had struggles here. She has stood by my side through all the ups and downs. And we have had a few real shitty downs.
My wife works for the one percent btw. Guys that probably make the wealthy at those parties look like paupers. She could certainly go that route if she so chooses. Has been offerred many times. But some women want a solid partner.
I read through your trip reports last night. Indeed, I think you really are one lucky man Alex :D As for us FSU women seekers who have yet to find our partner to build a nest, we remain unlucky for now :rolleyes:
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As for us FSU women seekers who have yet to find our partner to build a nest, we remain unlucky for now :rolleyes:
Build a nest FIRST and they shall come. Make the nest with 5 bedrooms, large kitchen, 3 1/2 baths on a 8 hectare lot with a Mercedes in the driveway because the garage is full of Lamborghinis.
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In addition to the vulgarity, how do you know this to be a fact? From the vast numbers of married FSUW you dated? From your (2?) weeks on the ground speaking to these women and the men who "lay" them?
There are at least two FSUW posting here who had children when they married WM. Ask them if they would "normally greet a WM warmly with legs wide open".
Do the words "SOCIAL MISFIT" ring a bell?
Anyone -- and I mean anyone-- that takes any notice of ANYTHING the completely clueless idiot Trenchcoat has to say --is as big an idiot as he is.
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Do the words "SOCIAL MISFIT" ring a bell?
Anyone -- and I mean anyone-- that takes any notice of ANYTHING the completely clueless idiot Trenchcoat has to say --is as big an idiot as he is.
Oh behave GayH :D
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In addition to the vulgarity, how do you know this to be a fact? From the vast numbers of married FSUW you dated? From your (2?) weeks on the ground speaking to these women and the men who "lay" them?
There are at least two FSUW posting here who had children when they married WM. Ask them if they would "normally greet a WM warmly with legs wide open".
Not from any that I have dated but some research I have done on the internet of FSW in such a position, single with a child. As we all ready know from many posts on here life is hard for single mothers in the FSU, they get a pittance from the state for both themselves and their child to live off. Added to this many will live in unsavoury areas. We again already know from various posts on here that there are lots of cities in the FSU that are not nice places to live in, if not unsafe then just boring with little to do. A foreigner coming to visit these women will naturally be great excitement and a once in a lifetime's chance to escape poverty and drudgery to which they have been assigned. Most have grown up with the harsh realities of single mother life in the FSU have become streetwise enough to know they are going nowhere unless they part their legs and profess their love. They can divorce later after green card etc but for the next 2 years that is going to be their life in the hope of gaining a better life for themselves and most importantly for them their child. A good mother will always lay down and take it for their child and a chance for them to get on in life. The FSU offers them very little chance to get on in life so they go all out to get out of Dumpsk. If the guy is lucky she will like or love him and stay with him, if few alternatives present themselves once in US, UK, etc she will probably stay with him by default for the benefit of a stable life and the child's opportunities in life. Women tend to have it better than men in the FSU, for them there is no escape just around the clock working or poverty in unemployment, hence the alcohol problems. You see Boethius I figured out FSU society after all ;D
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No, you didn’t figure out FSU society.
If life is so horrible, an FSUW can work abroad, as millions of Ukrainians do. Many of the countries in which they work, such as Poland, Spain, Portugal, and Ireland, offer them paths to citizenship. You assume women are trapped and WM are their sole means of leaving the FSU. That may have been true 20 years ago, but it hasn’t been for a long time.
Life in Russia is not difficult for most single mothers.
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Not from any that I have dated but some research I have done on the internet of FSW in such a position, single with a child.
Where did you get your information from? Sex tourists on sex forums? The last thing a single woman with a child needs is another child from a man who's going to disappear on her and the child because life becomes even more difficult. I'd say single women with a child goes into this with eyes wide open more often than legs wide open.
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Welcome, Lord of the Dance and thanks for the Seasonal Greetings
Please do NOT take any tips from Trenchcoat seriously - as most of his 'adviSe' sucks.
Can't agree with the advice from some that suggests you need to be a good dater of women to find a FSU wife, either..... FAR more important
You need to address the question:
Why am I seeking a FSU woman ?
and be a guy that knows how to be a good husband ...
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be a guy that knows how to be a good husband ...
A good husband knows how to communicate with his wife and take care of her needs. A guy can't be a good husband if he doesn't know how to communicate or read his girl. He can get experience by dating a lot.
A bad boy who knows how to socialize with women will catch more women than a good guy who has little to no social skills every time. Nice guys don't finish last because they're nice guys. They finish last because they lack the skills they need to finish first.
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Where did you get your information from? Sex tourists on sex forums? The last thing a single woman with a child needs is another child from a man who's going to disappear on her and the child because life becomes even more difficult. I'd say single wometn with a child goes into this with eyes wide open more often than legs wide open.
I think it's safe to assume she'll be using protection Billy ;)
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Lord of the Dance is correct that Pa is not always the best place. Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are about the only places with good economies. The rest are on life support with prisons and the medical field providing good jobs. Not many women move to areas of PA and many leave. Even in my 20's, any social gatherings had 3 guys for every woman. Even good looking women with 2-3 kids received a lot of attention. As one of my friends once said, "I am tired of getting shot down by women on welfare!"
Lord of the Dance, you got some good advice. Take your time, don't do a fiancee visa after the first trip. If you find a good one, make 2-3 trips to see her before making any commitment. And, of course, the big one, don't send them a lot of money! If anything doesn't seem right with a woman, don't excuse it based upon cultural differences or the language barrier. Believe me, you will know if a woman is interested and she won't play games.
Also, take your time to study the language. It will take you farther than anything. The best book I found is, "The New Penguin Russian course."
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A good husband knows how to communicate with his wife and take care of her needs. A guy can't be a good husband if he doesn't know how to communicate or read his girl. He can get experience by dating a lot.
A bad boy who knows how to socialize with women will catch more women than a good guy who has little to no social skills every time. Nice guys don't finish last because they're nice guys. They finish last because they lack the skills they need to finish first.
Once more, you confuse 'quiet folk' with being poor interlocutors ... :D
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Once more, you confuse 'quiet folk' with being poor interlocutors ... :D
When I said a man should have good social skills, you automatically assume I meant the man has to be talking 24/7. Good social skills means the person knows when to talk, knows how to get the other persons to talk and when to listen(be quiet). If a guy is always quiet like some of your friends are, then they will fail with women more often than not. It's not complicated Moby.
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Hmmmm, I always thought women liked the quiet mysterious types? Actions not words.
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Hmmmm, I always thought women liked the quiet mysterious types? Actions not words.
Imagine a woman on a date with a man who barely talks. There's no action and no mystery. He's quiet and she isn't going to get turned on. A man with good social skills doesn't run his mouth constantly and tell his whole life story on the first date. He gets the woman to talk instead of disclosing his whole life story in a few hours. Later she's going to ask him questions because he didn't talk much about himself. She'll want to solve the mystery but she isn't going to want to solve a mystery if the man isn't interesting to begin with.
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Imagine a woman on a date with a man who barely talks. There's no action and no mystery. He's quiet and she isn't going to get turned on. A man with good social skills doesn't run his mouth constantly and tell his whole life story on the first date. He gets the woman to talk instead of disclosing his whole life story in a few hours. Later she's going to ask him questions because he didn't talk much about himself. She'll want to solve the mystery but she isn't going to want to solve a mystery if the man isn't interesting to begin with.
BillyB, you are STILL making the huge mistake of thinking those of us blessed with the gift of the gob can succeed in this endeavour.
As has been pointed out ... actions speak louder than words ...
NB I count success as a long-term relationship where the respective partners ( or one of them) don't take the attitude that a 'good partner' is like a regular bus on a busy route .. that another will come along, soon ......
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When I said a man should have good social skills, you automatically assume I meant the man has to be talking 24/7. Good social skills means the person knows when to talk, knows how to get the other persons to talk and when to listen(be quiet). If a guy is always quiet like some of your friends are, then they will fail with women more often than not. It's not complicated Moby.
Some of the women I have met talk enough that you can't get a word in edgewise. With them if you don't fall asleep and look like you are paying attention and interested you are golden.
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As has been pointed out ... actions speak louder than words ...
Moby if you don't know what social skills are, read the link below. It sums that up. Body language and appearance are part of the action necessary to having good social skills. Going around telling people being quiet is just as good as me recommending people to improve their social skills is bad advice. Recommending people to improve their social skills is a good thing and will increase their chances of success. It's not rocket science.
http://www.skillsyouneed.com/ips/social-skills.html
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So as Billy said . . . spend as much time as you can with and around women. Get comfortable with them and make them comfortable with you, even when you are not on dates.
I agree, good idea. I don't seem to have a problem around women (from my own perspective) but I must admit that it would sometimes appear women have a problem around me (they often try to avoid me when I approach to initiate conversation). My mother has told me she believes I come across rather intimidating, but I disagree. I'm not particularly tall or handsome, I don't have a sophisticated college education or a prestigious job and I try not to dominate the conversation. Perhaps I'm a bit too self-confident, but I really doubt I could be coming across as intimidating. I think it must be my appearance (short stature, my attire, etc.). Lots to work on!
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Yep I'm the same one as on RUA though I tend to spend most of my time here as its more dedicated to dating in the FSU. More topics on FSU dating I think are covered here though I find RUA a bit more down to earth which can be a nice change.
I like yourself would like my own family, you kind of realise as you get older that your old folks aren't going to be around forever more which is depressing in itself. I've got some close family but it would still essentially be me by myself and maybe a dog. Most of the women around my way and I guess yours know that they can take their pick of the guys, you don't have to be that much off the pace to miss out. That and some girls are just gold diggers so you really need to watch out. Fortunately the situation in the FSU is completely different, there are loads of girls to date and its easy hunting out there. I tend to prefer women without children too simply because I do not want the immediate commitment of someone else's child and all the added complexities it brings, this search normally throws up enough problems without adding more. That said a woman with a child will normally greet a WM warmly with legs wide open. They will unlikely get any other guy visit them so they can't afford to be fussy. Local guys see them as only fit for a good lay anyway so if a WM who can support a family turns up and may marry them they tend to play all in. In all honesty some women with children can be pretty fit. I've seen a few 10's on Mamba compared with 7 or 8's for without children, I think this is because all the local guys hit on them first as top priority so they get pregnant then of course the number of local guys interested in them plummet as none of them want to get saddled paying for someone else's kid.
Anyhue, I would get going if I were you on some of the free dating FSU sites and just try and learn about FSW to start with, no need to go out there immediately just learn about all the sorts of characters you get turn up, good & bad, ins & outs, I think doing so will save you much time later.
Nice to see you here on RWD too.
Yes, the constant flow of time is frightening to me as well. It's peculiar that I don't much fear my own death but I'm quite disconcerted with the prospect of my parents passing away on me. I have extended family members as well as a few friends, but nobody as close as my parents. Though I understand the need for patience and restraint, I'm definitely excited to get on with a family of my own.
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How can someone be adventurous enough to try new things and yet remain traditional? :-\ You have me confused
My apologies for the confusion, I'll expound on my thoughts...
In this regard, I'm using the term 'adventurous' to describe physical activities like sport diving, ballooning, sailing, hiking and traveling. It is my opinion that such activities are enjoyed by more women in the FSU than women from many other countries around the world. Not sure why this is (or even if it's entirely true), but as an example, I've already met several female balloonist friends on Facebook, and the majority of them are from Russia or Ukraine! Many young people today (both male and female) are risk-averse and more interested in electronics than adventures.
When I use the term 'traditional,' I'm referring to the affirmation of conventional family values and a moderate sentimental connection to the past. As an example, a person who cares about her familial / religious heritage and doesn't feel the need to abandon the past to live in the present.
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It takes an adventurous person to move to a new country to start. Travel, new experiences, open to different cultures, etc are all things I find many FSUW are generally more open to. Yet they cling to certain traditional values. Family is one. Not into drugs like as many women in the West. "Home cooked meals are better for you". At least this is what I have found in my wife. The best from both Worlds.
My notions concur, though I recognize the possibility that I'm wrong.
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I think more often than not, 'looking for better life' is reason I hear most, especially with kids in tow.
Who knows what will happen when an FSUW is exposed to western culture and life. I think the true person comes out. Some have trouble adapting while others are like fish in water, I have seen more of the latter. The 'russian' women I have met here(LA) are exactly like any women you will meet here, loving the good life!!
Adaptability is one sure sign of an intrepid personality. If a woman is more concerned about breaking a nail than breaking a leg, it ain't gonna work out (with me personally... obviously everyone's looking for someone different).
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Depends on the woman and set of circumstances I imagine. But most of the women we know did not have children, were good looking younger women, and had many options. They were looking for a partner, not a better life.
We know a few that were escaping something, those women seem to have had a harder time.
I'm determined to do some traveling prior to involving myself with the online dating scene. A main reason for employing this strategy is to vet prospective cities for livability prior to engaging in any relationships within those cities. If I would find a particular location to be undesirable upon visitation, I'll abstain from contacting prospective mates in said region.
I too am looking for a life partner, not an indigent.
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Welcome, Lord of the Dance and thanks for the Seasonal Greetings
Please do NOT take any tips from Trenchcoat seriously - as most of his 'adviSe' sucks.
Can't agree with the advice from some that suggests you need to be a good dater of women to find a FSU wife, either..... FAR more important
You need to address the question:
Why am I seeking a FSU woman ?
and be a guy that knows how to be a good husband ...
Thanks for the welcome here on RWD msmob.
Glad to hear the opinion that dating experience isn't everything (because that is more-than-less the direction I'm coming from). I do have some experience with the ladies but it's limited. My standards are definitely higher than most others my age and perhaps some of my own qualifications aren't to par, I don't know... :-\
I think a willingness to (slightly) lower my standards as well as an ernest effort to better those of my qualities that lag behind will assist in 'balancing out the scale.'
As for being a good husband, I've got an excellent role model in my father (my parents have been happily married for better than 25 years).
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A good husband knows how to communicate with his wife and take care of her needs. A guy can't be a good husband if he doesn't know how to communicate or read his girl. He can get experience by dating a lot.
A bad boy who knows how to socialize with women will catch more women than a good guy who has little to no social skills every time. Nice guys don't finish last because they're nice guys. They finish last because they lack the skills they need to finish first.
I've been under the assumption that this is a fairly universal principle in dating situations the world over. Passiveness and aggressiveness must be shelved for the proper degree of assertiveness (sounds easier said than done, too!).
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Lord of the Dance is correct that Pa is not always the best place. Pittsburgh and Philadelphia are about the only places with good economies. The rest are on life support with prisons and the medical field providing good jobs. Not many women move to areas of PA and many leave. Even in my 20's, any social gatherings had 3 guys for every woman. Even good looking women with 2-3 kids received a lot of attention. As one of my friends once said, "I am tired of getting shot down by women on welfare!"
Lord of the Dance, you got some good advice. Take your time, don't do a fiancee visa after the first trip. If you find a good one, make 2-3 trips to see her before making any commitment. And, of course, the big one, don't send them a lot of money! If anything doesn't seem right with a woman, don't excuse it based upon cultural differences or the language barrier. Believe me, you will know if a woman is interested and she won't play games.
Also, take your time to study the language. It will take you farther than anything. The best book I found is, "The New Penguin Russian course."
Thanks for the words of caution and encouragement, as well as the suggestions civi68. I haven't yet run across 'The New Penguin Russian Course' but I'll be on the lookout for it now. I believe you speak wise words when you suggest taking time to learn the language. Man though, the Slavic languages present quite the weekend puzzler, don't they? :)
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Some of the women I have met talk enough that you can't get a word in edgewise. With them if you don't fall asleep and look like you are paying attention and interested you are golden.
If the conversation is held in the Russian / Ukrainian languages, I'll be happy to let the girl do most of the talking. ;D
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I'm determined to do some traveling prior to involving myself with the online dating scene. A main reason for employing this strategy is to vet prospective cities for livability prior to engaging in any relationships within those cities. If I would find a particular location to be undesirable upon visitation, I'll abstain from contacting prospective mates in said region.
It appears that you want to get away from where you live, which is understandable given the comments above. However, when you talk about "prospective cities," are you referring to (for example) Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, New York and others reasonably close to where you are now, or the whole of the USA, or the whole world (even the whole English-speaking world)?
...I haven't yet run across 'The New Penguin Russian Course' but I'll be on the lookout for it now. I believe you speak wise words when you suggest taking time to learn the language. Man though, the Slavic languages present quite the weekend puzzler, don't they? :)
Which is a very good reason for NOT learning Russian as a complete language - it would take years to become fluent, and you still won't pick up elements of humour or other "native speaker only" elements which you simply don't recognise as such in English. Added to which, of course, is that there's no guarantee that you would end up with a Russian-speaking girlfriend/partner/wife anyway. :D And, even if you did, she will have learnt English at school - how much she remembers is another matter, but there are MANY FSU women on dating websites whose English level is listed as "Fluent" or "Very Good." If you restrict yourself to searching amongst this group you will, of course, be eliminating many others who might include the best choice for you - but everyone in this venture appears to agree that communication is the absolute number one priority for making a relationship work. The better your prospective wife's English, the better your chances. Of course there are many exceptions (Chicagoguy on here is one obvious example).
If you intend to visit Ukraine or Russia, you most certainly need to learn the Cyrillic alphabet. Get a good phrasebook (Lonely Planet's is superb), study it before you go (you don't have to learn everything off by heart, though!), and don't be afraid to refer to it when you're on the ground. Of course, the advances in apps these days mean that you can probably get by with just your smartphone, but it doesn't hurt to have a written backup in case your phone dies unexpectedly (or your beloved lives in the middle of the Siberian tundra with no cellphone coverage :o).
Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck. :thumbsup:
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In this regard, I'm using the term 'adventurous' to describe physical activities like sport diving, ballooning, sailing, hiking and traveling. It is my opinion that such activities are enjoyed by more women in the FSU than women from many other countries around the world. Not sure why this is (or even if it's entirely true), but as an example, I've already met several female balloonist friends on Facebook, and the majority of them are from Russia or Ukraine! Many young people today (both male and female) are risk-averse and more interested in electronics than adventures.
When I use the term 'traditional,' I'm referring to the affirmation of conventional family values and a moderate sentimental connection to the past. As an example, a person who cares about her familial / religious heritage and doesn't feel the need to abandon the past to live in the present.
You would be correct as a generalization. This is how my wife and most of the FSUW we know are. They want to live life to it's fullest and love adventure. If you are into these types of activities I believe it also gives you a huge advantage over other men searching.
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I agree, good idea. I don't seem to have a problem around women (from my own perspective) but I must admit that it would sometimes appear women have a problem around me (they often try to avoid me when I approach to initiate conversation).
OK, then you need to work on becoming a more interesting person.
Your education level might be part of the problem.
Fact is the less education a person has, the more they like to talk about things they know little about and it becomes painful for those around him/her (that know better) to listen to.
One tact might be to really, really, really become expert on something of interest to women.
Another tact is to ask questions of the ladies quite a bit.
Not like where are you from, etc., but what they think of some current events.
True women admire physical attractiveness in men, but they admire more intellectual attractiveness.
I have two brothers who are much better looking than myself, but they became wary of bringing gals to the family home . . . because once the gals started talking with me, they were hooked.
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Moby if you don't know what social skills are, read the link below. It sums that up. Body language and appearance are part of the action necessary to having good social skills. Going around telling people being quiet is just as good as me recommending people to improve their social skills is bad advice. Recommending people to improve their social skills is a good thing and will increase their chances of success. It's not rocket science.
http://www.skillsyouneed.com/ips/social-skills.html
BillyB, I believe I might have led the horse to water but it didn't want to drink...
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Thanks for the words of caution and encouragement, as well as the suggestions civi68. I haven't yet run across 'The New Penguin Russian Course' but I'll be on the lookout for it now. I believe you speak wise words when you suggest taking time to learn the language. Man though, the Slavic languages present quite the weekend puzzler, don't they? :)
I have a copy of 'The New Penguin Russian Course' it under a pile of stuff on my desk. Never really hado the time to look at it much. To be honest despite good reviews on Amazon it really does seem more of a course text book, something you use alongside or after a formal claas room course with a tutor. No doubt it can be useful if you want/can get down to several hours of hard study a day. I don't think it really for an absolute beginner though as I think you need some basic grounding in Russian for it to be useful. The most useful learning tool I have used to learn Russian is the computer programe 'Before You Know It' - BYKI. It's free to download & use (I just use the free version ;) ) You'll only be able to learn a few basic words & become familiar with a few Russian words but I think it's your best bet if you are due to visit in the near future and can't fit in a whole course. I've also used Rosetta Stone but it costs and again to be honest I don't think it's as good for someone without a real world classroom course - it's learning curve is a bit steep. I can also recommend a copy of the lonely planet phrase book as a back up, even a learning reference. I've never used it on the street but I can see how it would be handy to have as a back up. There pocket size travel guides are also handy.
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I just threw out a bunch of my Russian Language learning tools Doug and have more in a box ready to go to the dumpster. I am not sure what I haven't thrown out yet but if you want them you can have them. I had about 4-6 different ones including Pimslier I II & III and Rosetta Stone along with some others. I am not sure what I haven't thrown out yet though.
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OK, then you need to work on becoming a more interesting person.
Your education level might be part of the problem.
Fact is the less education a person has, the more they like to talk about things they know little about and it becomes painful for those around him/her (that know better) to listen to.
One tact might be to really, really, really become expert on something of interest to women.
Another tact is to ask questions of the ladies quite a bit.
Not like where are you from, etc., but what they think of some current events.
True women admire physical attractiveness in men, but they admire more intellectual attractiveness.
I have two brothers who are much better looking than myself, but they became wary of bringing gals to the family home . . . because once the gals started talking with me, they were hooked.
:thumbsup: I can totally relate to this ML! I think Intellectual conversations put your foot through the door and then the rest depends on what direction you intend to carry it to.
There have been more than a few occasions when I was having such a fantastic and interesting conversation with the woman whilst her increasingly uneasy "boyfriend" kept giving me looks and kept watch over us from behind the said woman. I don't blame the boys for their insecurity, as I think I might've easily "stolen" these women if I truly intended to. I've never truly run out of topics to discuss (assuming everything's in english ofc) as I'm comfortable with speaking about almost anything with people from all walks of life no matter what age group.
As perhaps previously discussed, practice does make perfect, though it doesn't guarantee the conversations will be of substance.
And substance, is what most conversations lack.
IMO what ML has stated is probably the truth to attracting quality women. Be a quality man yourself 8) Of course one's definition of a quality woman (smart? :rolleyes: subservient? :-[ big breasts?, :P petite?, tall?) may vary, and so does the definition of a quality man.
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I agree, good idea. I don't seem to have a problem around women (from my own perspective) but I must admit that it would sometimes appear women have a problem around me (they often try to avoid me when I approach to initiate conversation). My mother has told me she believes I come across rather intimidating, but I disagree. I'm not particularly tall or handsome, I don't have a sophisticated college education or a prestigious job and I try not to dominate the conversation. Perhaps I'm a bit too self-confident, but I really doubt I could be coming across as intimidating. I think it must be my appearance (short stature, my attire, etc.). Lots to work on!
I think social skills can be a complex field, people often look at it in a singular fashion that it is the individual that needs to improve (often the man, lol). I think we often forget that we need to consider the social skills of the person we are talking to (sometimes they are not that good) and tell type of person they are. In the FSU I think perhaps more of the women there are more after someone who can speak on intellectual matters. Since they tend to do a lot of uni degrees out there and brought up in a more traditional family setting which favours such talk.
In the west I think intellectual oriented people struggle more, particularly men. If you meet a like minded women chances are you tend to be too much of the same. They have been brought up in a different manner more career minded. Western society also seems to favour the 'loud mouths' who are extrovert and talk the hind legs of anyone, i.E the centre of attention at most parties that a lot of women seem to go for.
I think in the west intellectualism is not viewed admirably in terms of social skills. Intellectual men can be viewed as a bore, socially inept, prone to rambling about stuff people already know but don't care to talk about or just don't care, someone introverted, lacking in fun/excitement, getting too bogged down in the ins & outs, lacking vibrancy and charisma.
Quite often it's the non-intellectual crowd that seem to come out on top in the west. They tend to have what is called more 'emotional intelligence' - they naturally know what to say and when to day it, how to act and automatically read and respond to a person by instinct in the most ideal manner. They often seem to amuse others by often the most banal comments that are actu ally almost devoid of substance or thought. Yet it proves remarkably affective in talking to their peers since they know how to relate to others and don't go about conversations I'm the same manner intellectuals do. I'm not sure if they would play well in the FSU because of it being a different society. I think girls there look for serious guys as they need good providers whether someone has emotional intelligence instead of intelligence may not help their cause.
Over the years I have learnt particularly with the more low brow crowd that not talking too much tends to play better, not elaborating on what you say. The more simple minded folk tend to get lost on it all to easy and you don't come across well to them. Elaborate talk to them does not go down well, they are used to short punchy one liners and I think view people who elaborate as odd as of from another planet, a freak at best. To them I think it is the mark of someone who is not socially skilled if they elaborate since they have not picked up on the covert social cue of that societal group to not elaborate - what is sometimes called a low social monitor (someone who does not pick up well on the social environment, people's disposition towards them). So you need to quickly weigh up and judge your audience and see if you can adjust accordingly - sometimes easier said than done. A low social monitor will often not tune into whether something he or she is saying is the right thing to say in a given situation. The higher functioning social monitors will normally and often naturally do this.
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Trench
Do you write utter bollox hoping for a 'rise' .. ?
Wishing you'd stop 'theorising' as a New Year's Resolution ;)
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Trench
Do you write utter bollox hoping for a 'rise' .. ?
Wishing you'd stop 'theorising' as a New Year's Resolution ;)
I am not hoping for a 'rise' I am discussing what I have found to OP in order to help him out. Some may disagree with what I say, OP may find it useful or not. Many of ghe concepts here are from physiological studies and the like and my own learning and observation of people in real life. Judging from your video Moby and your failed marriages you hardly seem to have mastered social skills yourself even at your ripe old age. Happy New Year Mobers :)
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Many of ghe concepts here are from physiological studies and the like and my own learning and observation of people in real life.
Erm, forgive my intrusion Trench, I guess you meant "psychological studies"? Not "physiological studies" that deal with the more physical side of things?
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Kyn
Hence the 'bollox' comment - but I doubt Trench knew he was making such a funny mistake ;)
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Kyn
Hence the 'bollox' comment - but I doubt Trench knew he was making such a funny mistake ;)
To be fair, that specific comment by Trench came after yours. :popcorn:
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To be fair, that specific comment by Trench came after yours. :popcorn:
Funny as the predictive text mobile phone typo is ;) the essense of what I am saying is true. To add to this Phycologists/scientists have found that there is a distinct difference in the eye alertness of extroverts compared to introverts. People are apparently attracted to those that are emotionally intelligent - generally the more extrovert, through their eyes being brighter and more stimulating to the recipients brain. Introverts tend to be more duller and a turn off for many apart from those matched by chemistry. So in some ways there's only so much you can do. It like the comet you get from women sometimes when a woman gives birth that the kid has 'bright eyes' so bright with intelligence, it is not intelligence though but emotional intelligence they ate reacting to - the kid may literally prove to be as thick as sh*t intellectually at least.
This relates back to the article BillyB put up that those with strong emotional intelligence - i.e those with strong social skills often get on very well not because they are particularly good at anything but because they always play well with people. Think of the number of times you have seen or had a mangers who was as thick as sh*t the and new little of their subject compared to the underlings who he/she got doing their work because they knew more but lacked the social skills to be attractive to those they would need to convince in order to attain that management position. Hell there are even very intelligent and talented people that spend years unemployed/underemployed since they come across so dismally in interview even though they are probably by far the best candidate for the job all the interviewrest see is someone who does not shine socially and be able to convince them of their skills and abilities.
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People are apparently attracted to those that are emotionally intelligent - generally the more extrovert, through their eyes being brighter and more stimulating to the recipients brain. Introverts tend to be more duller and a turn off for many apart from those matched by chemistry. So in some ways there's only so much you can do. It like the comet you get from women sometimes when a woman gives birth that the kid has 'bright eyes' so bright with intelligence, it is not intelligence though but emotional intelligence they ate reacting to - the kid may literally prove to be as thick as sh*t intellectually at least.
Hmm, so many generalisations, so subjective. :-\ Who is to say emotional intelligence can't be taught?
Naturally, going by those foregone conclusions, I would possess one of the most un-sexiest, dullest set of eyes then, since I am of Asian ethnic stock with very dark brown eyes :D
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Hmm, so many generalisations, so subjective. :-\ Who is to say emotional intelligence can't be taught?
Naturally, going by those foregone conclusions, I would possess one of the most un-sexiest, dullest set of eyes then, since I am of Asian ethnic stock with very dark brown eyes :D
I think there is some scope for learning the natural skills of those with 'emotional intelligence' but you won't have it naturally unthinkingly as a gut reaction response rather you will analyse what you see around you and recognize the signs, eg. if you are sat on a table opposite a girl you could learn that you need to analyse her facial expressions rather than just sit there rambling on, if you notice she looks bored you try talking of something else, if you use humour and she looks unimpressed then you either try a different type of humour or move onto something more serious, intellectual even, etc. A low social monitor would just ramble on not even noticing if she is looking more and more bored or just not partaking a roughly equal contribution to the conversation.
You will never be able to learn to become someone with emotional intelligence though, it is a different way of recognizing what those with emotional intelligence do by instinct and doing the same or similar. You will be learning their skills rather being naturally skilled and you will be going through a different brain thought pattern as I've just explained. It is well known that the introvert brain has a far more complex set of pathways than an extrovert brain, an extrovert's brain pathways are more direct and their brain works in a completely different manner. They tend to quickly see a situation and respond, thinking time is minimal, they don't always get it right and sometimes say inappropriate things but most of the time they are right on cue. If they wrong foot themselves they normally quickly know how to adjust and recover the situation.
Some people have greater ability to learn emotional intelligent skills than others I think, some are such low social monitors that they refuse to accept or even realize they fall woefully short on the socializing front. Some no matter how much you tell them how they should react just don't get it, their mind is pre-programmed and conditioned so much to react the same way every time no matter what anyone says.
If by saying Asian you are telling us you're Chinese well that is know to be one of the most introverted country/peoples on the planet. I used to work in a Uni with a lot of Chinese and while I found them very humble, decent, courteous, nice and studious people they were pretty much all introverts, quiet, nerdy even and of unaware of their environmental surroundings, two left feet as the saying goes. The African crowd was often at the other extreme, vocal, passionate, animated - seeing them two groups of people together doing group work could be hilarious, complete counterpoints to each other, lol.
p.s dull eyes have nothing to do with eye colour, those with bright gleaming eyes are often perceived as more intelligent but the reverse is usually true.
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To be fair, that specific comment by Trench came after yours. :popcorn:
?? Not according to my chronological records :)
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Funny as the predictive text mobile phone typo is ;) the essense of what I am saying is true.
I rather doubt it - I'm sure you meant to type physiological - when the word you were looking for was psychological ...but this is so typical of you refusing to accept and learn ;)
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If by saying Asian you are telling us you're Chinese
As I recall, Singaporean ..... ? Trench, keep up
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?? Not according to my chronological records :)
Trench wrote "physiological studies" on Reply #79, right after the "bollox" comment on Reply #78 on this thread.
So if there were no misunderstandings, Trench's typo came after the "bollox" comment. :popcorn:
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Trench wrote "physiological studies" on Reply #79, right after the "bollox" comment on Reply #78 on this thread.
So if there were no misunderstandings, Trench's typo came after the "bollox" comment. :popcorn:
You are QUITE correct, Kyn ... My 'excuse' (weak though it is ) is that I read Trench's 77 - total bollox 'theorising' - of course - and then he compounded his stupidity in 79....
Well-spotted
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I am not hoping for a 'rise' I am discussing what I have found to OP in order to help him out.
Exactly the problem - you are 'doing it again' ...your advice ( (based on the conclusions you draw to get there ) SUCKS ... !
Some may disagree with what I say, OP may find it useful or not.
That would be most of us more experienced members.....
Many of ghe concepts here are from physiological studies and the like and my own learning and observation of people in real life. Judging from your video Moby and your failed marriages you hardly seem to have mastered social skills yourself even at your ripe old age.
:ROFL:
Another example of why you need to make a new years resolution .. you simply haven't got a clue what you are writing about ;) [ and - unlike you I've posted 50+ vids on here and I'm not frightened by a camera - so which one brought about the 'wisdom' of your conclusions;) ]
You've certainly not studied my physiology ;)
Unlike you, I HAVE learnt from the failed marriage I didn't want to end ... You would be wiser to listen and learn - instead of trying to 'score points' ..
Happy New Year Mobers :)
Indeed, Trench .. work on that 'sense of humour' of yours and you might even have one !
This is one of the saddest new years I've experienced.... I miss SC ... LOTs..
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You are QUITE correct, Kyn ... My 'excuse' (weak though it is ) is that I read Trench's 77 - total bollox 'theorising' - of course - and then he compounded his stupidity in 79....
Well-spotted
Thanks for being a good sport msmob. I very much concur it could have meant either way. I was afraid I'lld misunderstood.
Off topic: Blimey! Fireworks are now flying all around my neighbourhood! With best wishes from Oxford, Happy New Year everybody! :thumbsup:
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This is one of the saddest new years I've experienced.... I miss SC ... LOTs..
I can imagine. You are a good couple.
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It appears that you want to get away from where you live, which is understandable given the comments above. However, when you talk about "prospective cities," are you referring to (for example) Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, New York and others reasonably close to where you are now, or the whole of the USA, or the whole world (even the whole English-speaking world)?
Which is a very good reason for NOT learning Russian as a complete language - it would take years to become fluent, and you still won't pick up elements of humour or other "native speaker only" elements which you simply don't recognise as such in English. Added to which, of course, is that there's no guarantee that you would end up with a Russian-speaking girlfriend/partner/wife anyway. :D And, even if you did, she will have learnt English at school - how much she remembers is another matter, but there are MANY FSU women on dating websites whose English level is listed as "Fluent" or "Very Good." If you restrict yourself to searching amongst this group you will, of course, be eliminating many others who might include the best choice for you - but everyone in this venture appears to agree that communication is the absolute number one priority for making a relationship work. The better your prospective wife's English, the better your chances. Of course there are many exceptions (Chicagoguy on here is one obvious example).
If you intend to visit Ukraine or Russia, you most certainly need to learn the Cyrillic alphabet. Get a good phrasebook (Lonely Planet's is superb), study it before you go (you don't have to learn everything off by heart, though!), and don't be afraid to refer to it when you're on the ground. Of course, the advances in apps these days mean that you can probably get by with just your smartphone, but it doesn't hurt to have a written backup in case your phone dies unexpectedly (or your beloved lives in the middle of the Siberian tundra with no cellphone coverage :o).
Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck. :thumbsup:
Thanks for the wish of good luck Anotherkiwi, it's appreciated.
As to my comment on prospective cities, I was actually referring specifically to cities within the FSU (primarily Russia and Ukraine, but I might broaden my horizons later, circumstances depending).
Thanks for the suggestion on a phrase book (never heard of 'Lonely Planet' before, but I'll look into it). I understand exactly what you're saying about the language barrier. Not that I could even learn to speak fluently if I tried, but I can definitely understand how it might actually be 'more dangerous' to think you can speak fluently than to not know a single phrase.
I'm C&Ping a comment here that I had originally posted over on RUA about such matters:
"And therein lies my biggest fear of the foreign language barrier: even when you hold a basic understanding of any given language, there are still plenty of opportunities for minute (but egregious) errors in communication.
As an example of this issue in the converse, I was recently reviewing a learn-to-speak Russian type webpage, authored by an ostensibly well-intentioned native Russian speaker. In English, he had endeavored to explain the advantage of utilizing index (flash) cards to improve rote vocabulary. In describing his suggestions, he mentioned distributing the vocabulary cards about your dwelling: at the kitchen table, on the bedroom nightstand and 'in the toilet!' "No," I thought, "that's where you put your cards for a swift and sanitary disposal upon the discouraging realization that there's no chance in hell you're going to learn the Russian language!"
Quite the jester of myself I'd create in a foreign tongue! These concerns aside, I'm afraid I've got to try."
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You would be correct as a generalization. This is how my wife and most of the FSUW we know are. They want to live life to it's fullest and love adventure. If you are into these types of activities I believe it also gives you a huge advantage over other men searching.
I'm encouraged by reading your thoughts alex330, thanks for sharing this sentiment.
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OK, then you need to work on becoming a more interesting person.
Your education level might be part of the problem.
Fact is the less education a person has, the more they like to talk about things they know little about and it becomes painful for those around him/her (that know better) to listen to.
One tact might be to really, really, really become expert on something of interest to women.
Another tact is to ask questions of the ladies quite a bit.
Not like where are you from, etc., but what they think of some current events.
True women admire physical attractiveness in men, but they admire more intellectual attractiveness.
I have two brothers who are much better looking than myself, but they became wary of bringing gals to the family home . . . because once the gals started talking with me, they were hooked.
Thanks for the thoughts and advice ML, I appreciate it.
I feel that I'm actually quite the interesting person just as I am now, but I guess one of the issues I run into is the fear that I will come across as boastful if I talk too much about my life... my interests and hobbies, the things I own, the places I travel (or want to travel), etc.
I can understand how your brothers might be wary of doing all the work for you!
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I have a copy of 'The New Penguin Russian Course' it under a pile of stuff on my desk. Never really hado the time to look at it much. To be honest despite good reviews on Amazon it really does seem more of a course text book, something you use alongside or after a formal claas room course with a tutor. No doubt it can be useful if you want/can get down to several hours of hard study a day. I don't think it really for an absolute beginner though as I think you need some basic grounding in Russian for it to be useful. The most useful learning tool I have used to learn Russian is the computer programe 'Before You Know It' - BYKI. It's free to download & use (I just use the free version ;) ) You'll only be able to learn a few basic words & become familiar with a few Russian words but I think it's your best bet if you are due to visit in the near future and can't fit in a whole course. I've also used Rosetta Stone but it costs and again to be honest I don't think it's as good for someone without a real world classroom course - it's learning curve is a bit steep. I can also recommend a copy of the lonely planet phrase book as a back up, even a learning reference. I've never used it on the street but I can see how it would be handy to have as a back up. There pocket size travel guides are also handy.
Thanks for these tips Trenchcoat, I'll check out 'Before You Know It.'
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I just threw out a bunch of my Russian Language learning tools Doug and have more in a box ready to go to the dumpster. I am not sure what I haven't thrown out yet but if you want them you can have them. I had about 4-6 different ones including Pimslier I II & III and Rosetta Stone along with some others. I am not sure what I haven't thrown out yet though.
Hey thanks Ray, I appreciate it. Don't inconvenience yourself, but anything you have in-hand at the moment and want rid of I'll accept graciously. Perhaps I could pick up said materials when I come down to check out your shop / business!
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:thumbsup: I can totally relate to this ML! I think Intellectual conversations put your foot through the door and then the rest depends on what direction you intend to carry it to.
There have been more than a few occasions when I was having such a fantastic and interesting conversation with the woman whilst her increasingly uneasy "boyfriend" kept giving me looks and kept watch over us from behind the said woman. I don't blame the boys for their insecurity, as I think I might've easily "stolen" these women if I truly intended to. I've never truly run out of topics to discuss (assuming everything's in english ofc) as I'm comfortable with speaking about almost anything with people from all walks of life no matter what age group.
As perhaps previously discussed, practice does make perfect, though it doesn't guarantee the conversations will be of substance.
And substance, is what most conversations lack.
IMO what ML has stated is probably the truth to attracting quality women. Be a quality man yourself 8) Of course one's definition of a quality woman (smart? :rolleyes: subservient? :-[ big breasts?, :P petite?, tall?) may vary, and so does the definition of a quality man.
I concur kynrazor, quality conversation is the key to quality women! The finesse of carrying on small talk truly is a form of artistry... those who master it don't seem to have much issue meeting awesome people.
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Over the years I have learnt particularly with the more low brow crowd that not talking too much tends to play better, not elaborating on what you say.
Great point Trenchcoat; so often it seems the less said, the better.
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Off topic: Blimey! Fireworks are now flying all around my neighbourhood! With best wishes from Oxford, Happy New Year everybody! :thumbsup:
I know I'm a little late, but happy new year to you kynrazor and all here at RWD. May 2018 bring us all happiness, health and prosperity. ~ Doug S.
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Hi Doug !
A tip: Kyn prefers being call Kyn ;)
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Hi Doug !
A tip: Kyn prefers being call Kyn ;)
Thanks for the tip Moby (and my apologies Kyn, still learning the ropes here!). Doug
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Thanks for the tip Moby (and my apologies Kyn, still learning the ropes here!). Doug
;)
He's a smart lad - c. your age, I guess
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Hey thanks Ray, I appreciate it. Don't inconvenience yourself, but anything you have in-hand at the moment and want rid of I'll accept graciously. Perhaps I could pick up said materials when I come down to check out your shop / business!
I will send you what I have found so far Doug and may find a few more odds and ends that I can give you when you come down. I do have the Rosetta Stone set which is a pretty good one and great for vocabulary and the 3 sets of Pimsleur. Pimsleur I is cassettes and II & III are CD's. Hope you have a cassette player. I am also sending a bunch of Language Now CD's. I threw out the book for them but think I have another someplace that may turn up before you come down. The Language Now set was one of the first I tried and I liked it a lot. There is one tape missing from Pimsleur I. As I recall it got stuck in the cassette player in the vehicle I had then. There is enough there to keep you busy for a long time and to help you learn Russian pretty well.
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I will send you what I have found so far Doug and may find a few more odds and ends that I can give you when you come down. I do have the Rosetta Stone set which is a pretty good one and great for vocabulary and the 3 sets of Pimsleur. Pimsleur I is cassettes and II & III are CD's. Hope you have a cassette player. I am also sending a bunch of Language Now CD's. I threw out the book for them but think I have another someplace that may turn up before you come down. The Language Now set was one of the first I tried and I liked it a lot. There is one tape missing from Pimsleur I. As I recall it got stuck in the cassette player in the vehicle I had then. There is enough there to keep you busy for a long time and to help you learn Russian pretty well.
Greatly appreciated Ray, thank you kindly for your generosity. As a matter of fact (thanks to my dad's line of work) I've got access to any sort of player I could want... reel-to-reel, phonograph, 8-track, cassette, etc. ~ Doug
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I will send you what I have found so far Doug and may find a few more odds and ends that I can give you when you come down. I do have the Rosetta Stone set which is a pretty good one and great for vocabulary and the 3 sets of Pimsleur. Pimsleur I is cassettes and II & III are CD's. Hope you have a cassette player. I am also sending a bunch of Language Now CD's. I threw out the book for them but think I have another someplace that may turn up before you come down. The Language Now set was one of the first I tried and I liked it a lot. There is one tape missing from Pimsleur I. As I recall it got stuck in the cassette player in the vehicle I had then. There is enough there to keep you busy for a long time and to help you learn Russian pretty well.
Wow, that was fast! Took delivery of your box today... thanks a ton for the great learning materials! Way more content than I was expecting; you're right, I'll be busy for a long time! ~ Doug
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Great point Trenchcoat; so often it seems the less said, the better.
You'd think Trench might follow his own 'adviSe' ;)