The true GCG

[BC]

Journeyman,

So putting together the basics from the two posts above, your experience so far is that about 10% of the 100+ pre-sorted candidates you met were women with good potential for someone down the line.. sound about right?

Heck, you ought to put together a 'Journeyman's list' of these women that met your yardstick and make a bundle doing what agencies should be doing. Why not become a full time bride tester.. or buster? I think you'd make a good team with RVR who seems to have a knack for sifting good men out of the dust.

Just kidding with ya.. or.. :?

Good luck in your quest.

[Bruno]

If a woman thinks she can not find a decent guy and feels that she wants to use some form of dating service there are many in Russia and the FSU...  There is no need to sell oneself abroad to achieve the objective of dating and marriage.


If women need to find a partner, the numbers clearly show they have a good 'marketplace' in their own country, language and culture. I do not accept that women marry Americans for anything other than economic or lifestyle considerations! 

Ok, let go... first some change in your post :

If a man thinks he can not find a decent girl and feels that he wants to use some form of dating service there are many in America... There is no need to sell oneself abroad to achieve the objective of dating and marriage.

If men need to find a partner, the numbers clearly show they have a good 'marketplace' in their own country, language and culture. I do not accept that men marry Russian for anything other than slavery ( kitchen maid ) or lifestyle considerations ( trophy wife )!

Interesting, the changed text can past to some men in these dating business... so, before accuse women from something, maybe it is need to see what are our personal motivation... love relation is a exchange between two partner... not only a exchange of feeling but from thing more subtil... the western man allow the woman to life in a better situation and the FSU woman allow the man to marry a younger sexy woman... in some way, it is like business between partner... a exchange who allow to realize some dream or wish... if both partner agree on these exchange, where is the problem... both are winner... Of course, this is true only if both are honest and without hidden agenda...

[andrewfi]

Bruno ~ You misunderstand, I think. I accuse the women of nothing. At least in the normal sense of the word. They are doing nothing wrong, unless and except if guys are being misled. But if you are suggesting there is no need for men to look in other countries?

Well, then you are absolutely correct, there is no need at all. But, I think in reality that a large part of the attraction of internet dating in general is that people, men in particular, are able to distance themselves from the realities of relationships. One has only to see the questions commonly asled and the answers given to see that many of the guys seeking foreign brides have very litle experience of real world dating - this  is why they do not understand what is happening around them and to them. This thread would not exist if guys were actually aware of what they were doing and if they were fully aware they would know that there was no need to find a woman abroad and little if any real advantage in doing so, other than the possible peripheral ones of adventure, self esteem and one-upmanship.

[anono]

one-upmanship?

journeyman, i can only wish i could ever post that well. i second everything you wrote as my own experience and witnessing others.

 

[ConnerVT]

 Why not become a full time bride tester.. or buster?

Now, there's a profession I could grow to like.  Too late for me, though.  I'm a married man now. 

Though I do remember reading somewhere about a culture where there was a village elder, whose responsibility was to take the bride's virginity on the wedding night.

Just some random ramblings... We can return to our regularly scheduled thread, already in progress... 

[Ste]

I think in reality that a large part of the attraction ofinternet dating in general is that people, men in particular, are able to distance themselves from the realities of relationships. One has only to see the questions commonly asled and the answers given to see that many of the guys seeking foreign brides have very litle experience of real world dating - this is why they do not understand what is happening around them and to them.

ARRGHHHH!

I wanted to say that but it would have taken me a full novel!

Spot on!

Ste

[Timmy K.]

HELLO EVERY BODY,

Timmy K. here, WOW WHAT A POST Now I'll tell you why!!!

I have not posted much since I got back from Ukraine on May 1st when I got engaged. I know some of you might remember.

  Any way I am heading back to get married on October 21st and now you guys have got me scared HA HA HA

OK -A brief of my story, I met Vika thru a small agency in Kiev,We corresponded for about 4 months and I corresponded with about 25 others at the same time. When I arrived I had 8 others I could have met. But in the 3 weeks I was there Vika and I hit it off. We travelled to Kharkov and I met her parents and we got engaged.After I returned we broke away from the agency in Kiev and with the advice from Greg from Atlanta and the help and advice from Bruno and home work they both suggested me to do and looking for red flags on the way I do believe I have a real relationship going here based on true honesty about myself and her being honest with me.   Now every one knows on this forum that I am just an average working guy  who is making this work. I do exceed the poverty guidelines by 3 times with my income. I have done all of my preparations thru the site http://www.usembassy.kiev.ua  and we are going for the{ DCF] Direct Consular Filing. I have a few new gray hairs also.     HA HA Any way back to the post. All of this talk about the green card grabber. Vika is aware of who I am and what I do for a living {union carpenter}. She has helped to economize on our wedding there, has cooperated with me on everything you can think of since I have returned from the first trip. She has seen photos of my{our} house inside and out, the work I have done on it and the work in progress,  and also of me on the jobsite ,she is in the construction business also, she is a plasterer, wall paper hanger and painter and she also has an incomplete MA in construction engineering in which she is trying to complete by crash course while we speak. She is determined to learn English on her own, which she is doing quite well with an electronic dictionary, some paper dictionaries and the help of the translator we are using from the agency that Greg recommended me to use to help us with other things in Kharkov. Also this guy from this agency has checked Vika out by just watching her [ not spying in her personal life] but by talking and getting to know her when she comes to his office to send and receive letters.All is well there, he personally told me that he does not think there is a "scamming bone in her body", his exact words. I have set down with her and her parents when I was there and showed them my monthly buget, she is aware of the slow times we construction workers do experience in winter,she knows I do side work then and wants to be part in this. She has told me to discontinue remodeling one of the spare bedrooms here, she wants to do this together. She loves my dog already,always asking me how is Palley { dogs name], I have her corresponding with two female friends here and she is very greatful for that. She wants a sewing machine and I got one for her, { my mother has 3 and is giving a good one to Vika]. While we speak she is knitting gifts for her 2 new friends here, she is making me another sweater and another surprise she tells me. She wants to work and get her American qualifications with in her eduction from Ukraine. I told her that I did not have the resources to pay for her college 100% here, but there were loans to be had  and she is aware of this and that they will have to be paid back. She also has a couple of diplomas in hordiculture and landscaping and says she would not mind working for a garden shop which I explained to her. She is totally aware that I am your average middle class working guy. Now there are a hundred or more small thigs that we share almost on a daily basis, I bought her a new cell phone about 4 months ago and we talk on the phone at least 3 times a week, more than that lately. I write letters to her almost every day and she sends me letters at least 3 times a week. She goes to the agencies office and helps to type her letters up in English with the help from the tanslator there and they have become frinnds also. {Any of you guys loking for a real nice lady our translator is a very good woman from Ukraine} They have a joke about Vika and I at the agency there, we have been and still are the leaders in corressponding by far and are probably record holders for letters since this guy started his agency. We talk about cooking, growing a garden, painting this or that in this house and the list goes on,she has made suggestions to me for growing tomatoes and I can grow some good tomatoes. I bought new living room furniture for her and she is delighted with this. All through sending photos, writing letters and our limited converstions in begiinning English. This is the good part taliking to her on the telephone and hearing her ruffle through the pages of her dictionary to learn a new word. I even play my guitar and harmonica for her every weekend on the telephone. She calls me her good man Tim, her music man. I call her my special angel.  I coud go on with alot more. OH Yes I am supporting her also while she is still in Kharkov, she still works some but I have told her not to work with the mortar so much because it makes her sick, if any of you are aware of the hazards of to much exposure to concrete to the bare skin you understand and she is so little I do not have it in my heart  to see her have to work so hard physically like she has had to in the past for little of nothing.

  Any way this post does have me thinking, but from looking at what her and I have done together and are doing together as I write this, I think I have a RW that will stay with me.  I will post some photos of our wedding when I get back and share this with you. Hopefully there will be more posts in the future from me and her for that matter. after all we are as one with Hope, Faith, and True Undying Love.

Timmy K.

[Maxx]

I love my country and I'm proud of Russia. During I was in US I started to like US. I think it is the second best country in the world, after Russia, of course. I never been nationalistic, but if someone from the different country will say bad about my country, it probably will be hurt my feelings and may be I will replay quet strong.
As for American life, in the beggining it was very hard to adjast. I think the man need to be patient with the woman in this period. (ADVERTISING: I already passed this period :-) ) Life could be perfect if there is the man who will love and whom I will love and because people in your country are OK with newcomers. But I would never switch Russia to US by myself. To come for man -  YES, to be there alone - NO, thank you. I love my country, here is my parents, my sister and her family, my friends. But I want to be happy, I want to have my own full family...

It is not about their primary motivation for coming to the West. Even if for some women that economics is their primary motivation for emmigration it is about their intent towards their marriages. If they come with no intention of making their marriages work, it is fraud and they are GCGs. It's that simple. But if in anyway they come whether it is primary or secondary, for love, family and marriage with their fiance's they are not GCGs.  

Maxx
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[Photo Guy]

Regarding the assignment of the GCG label to women who seek a better life, that can become a very muddled issue.

EVERY American woman I have ever dated or courted in a serious way has had a significant interest in my finances.

In that regard, I can't imagine "normal" Russian gals as being different from local American gals.  What MIGHT be different is some of the unrealistic expectations FSU gals have about money and lifestyle matters in America or the West.  

Labeling all Russian gals as GCGs doesn't strike me as a proper characterization.

This all makes sense to me. It's that same old problem. How does Maxx and the rest of us differentiate between a good girl and a GCG who is primarily motivated by getting the card and using the foreigner as a mule? It's a matter of the woman's priorities, isn't it? What comes first for her? Love? Creating a family? Better living conditions? Citizenship? Even with a local woman, you have to look at her motivations. It requires a keen eye, in any case. The guys who can't see a woman clearly, often get hurt and ruined. The guys who don't know what kind of woman they want are also in a dangerous position.

[Bruno]

[user=71]Timmy K.[/user] wrote:

Any way I am heading back to get married on October 21st and now you guys have got me scared HA HA HA

Hello Tim, it is a long time... happy to ear to you will be married in short time...

Of course, all women is a potential GCG and it is very difficult to know it before she receive it but in your case, there is some good sign... remember that you was very difficult in the selection of woman... some owner of agency have sptop work with me because i send them too much difficult customer ...

Now, the succes of your meeting is due to the raining ... remember, in the begin, she was not attracted by you... due to the bad weather, you was together at the appartment... and you have surprise her when you have help her in the domestic task... you have not seduce her by your physical or your money but by your character... She have find a man able to help her in home, who respect her... and i think that it is her main motivation... Remember that she was not very hot to quit Ukraine due to problem with great mother... really, i don't think that she is a potential GCG... and yourself, know certainly more about that me, and will be able to reply yourself...

Andrewfin wrote :

Well, then you are absolutely correct, there is no need at all. But, I think in reality that a large part of the attraction of internet dating in general is that people, men in particular, are able to distance themselves from the realities of relationships.

A short and good post... For USA and Russia, you are true, the pool of potential woman is very big... but here in Europe, international dating is nothing new... since the limited size of our country, it is not unusual to meet and marry woman from other country... usualy neightbour country... now, for us, FSU is not very far... when i go to Odessa, it is a little like someone from Texas search a bride in New-york...

But i don't understand why you wish that love relation can be blocked by border... Yourself are living in Estonia, a little country... are you limit yourself to these country ? Really, border are a politic limit... russian are not very different of us...

Several decade ago, men marry women from the same city... when car have appear, they was able to move and marry women from the same country... with plane, men are able to search around the world... modern transport and communication ( internet ) allow us to have friend all around the world... why not a girlfriend or wife...

My futur wife will be from these planet ( i hope )... she can be from Belgium, FSU, Asia, Africa or America... i don't care... but she need to be these i wish... why limit myself to Belgium and stay alone... or like some, marry a local woman they don't really like for not stay alone ( real looser )... 

[andrewfi]

Maxx ~ Do not confuse intent with what happens. That a woman was not able to continue living in the US does not mean that she was not intending to do so...

That she decided to go home only says that she preferred, in the end, her home in Moscow. But sure as anything, her intention, when she siged up in the marriage agency was to go to the US, otherwise, she would not have put her mark on the paper!

Bruno ~ Less than 1% of EU citizens live and work in a different EU country on a permanent basis. We are much more aligned to our home country and environment than you might think.

There is of course, the reality that if a woman moves from Belarus to Belgium she is going in the sure expectation of a better life. If she goes from Germany to Finland then she can expect to find pretty much the same standard of living and it is unlikely to be the primary motivator to moving. The other, non-economic, factors in a relationship are thus much more significant when moving within most countries of the EU than they are when moving from the FSU to Europe or USA. You are falling into the trap I have already noted, that of not realising just what those differences are in reality and perception for most people in the FSU countries.

Photoguy ~ The solution to your dilemma is easy! SImply understand that the woman with whom you are communicating would NOT be doing so if you were not from the US. When you understand that then you can begn to accommodate your thinking and thus actions to the realities. That you are simply the means to an end does not mean that you can not have a successful relationship. Think yourslef lucky that you are in the fortunate postition that you can offer a woman what she wants, she can offer what you want and make sure that you both keep on offering 'value' in the relationship. Failure will only occur when there is no longer a mutually acceptable exchange of 'value'.

The point in the previous paragraph and the necessity to even mention it underscores my point re: lack of experience and understanding. This exchange of value is not something unique to cross cultural relationships! It is common to ALL relationships, be they marital oes, or even just ordinary friendships!

[anono]

This exchange of value is not something unique to cross cultural relationships! It is common to ALL relationships, be they marital oes, or even just ordinary friendships!

 
how true.

my soon-to be, if she isn't already, ex-sister-in-law is a good example of the gist of this thread.

by way of laying a foundation, she is born, raised, married, children and soon-to be, if she isn't already, divorced mother of two. easily would be voted into top 5-10  good looking women in her generation in our small village and still is a good looking woman, having lost weight to start attracting men again, in a now, more necessary way.

it is known that she complained about the only job she ever had (other than raising children), a part time job as a receptionist at a hair salon.  i think this involved answering the phone, (lifting the ear-mouthpiece to the ear) and writing down appointments. from the perspective of an ex-union laborer building roads and bridges, digging and refilling ditches for a power company, risking life and limb every day at a steel mill as a hod carrier, having seen a friend of mine nearly burned to death from molten metal among a lot of other forgotten but difficult jobs, i find myself wanting to wring somebody's neck and she isn't even my soon-to be, if she isn't already, ex-wife. my mom couldn't believe it either. anyway she has also been heard to say she needs to find a "rich european" in order to live the life to which she has become accustomed to, which was a leisurely life once the kids got into school. she had no problem running up the CC's and target cards...with spikes whenever my brother would ask her to stop spending the kids college tuition.... she said he put her "through hell" when he bought her a new car. it wasn't the mini-cooper that she wanted so i guess anything less was "hell" to get for nothing.

and that is just a small part of it.

so it looks like there is always a better life motivation in marriages, generally for the women. so why do we men get married? ;-) and i think this is true even if the american decides to live in ukraine and does not bring his wife to the states for marriage and a life there. if i told "j" tomorrow that i am buying a flat in kharkov, she would be thrilled to tears and that's not an exaggeration. i see a lot of young smokinghotkovas and less with older and wealthier ukrainian men. an american is usually automatically included in that group.

i see a lot of mercedes, audi's, porsche, bmw, bentleys, top end japanese cars (don't know them by name, jap cars are not interesting to me) i saw two absolutely stunning (and well dressed) babes in a 2 seater mercedes trying not to scratch it leaving a parking lot. there is a lot of wealth here. these women generally know their husbands or boyfriends, if they have money, have a girlfriend or three. "it's life" says the waitress i talked to last week. i could do the same thing if i end up living here and wanted that kind of life. green card not necessary, just a better life.

[Bruno]

Bruno ~ Less than 1% of EU citizens live and work in a different EU country on a permanent basis. We are much more aligned to our home country and environment than you might think.

The Foreign Labor used in Belgium is around 8.8% ( with 11% of foreigner living in Belgium )... the top one is Luxembourg with 57.3%... the more low country to use foreign labor in EU is Spain with 1.6%... the EU middle is 7.6% ( stat from 2000... more high now with opening from border to new country ).

In 2000, for the USA, the foreign labor was 12.4%

Really, i don't know from where are your fact... but they are not realistic... and don't forget that after 5 year living or working in Belgium, a foreigner can ask the Belgium nationality ( and so no more count like foreign people )...

[Bruno]

You are falling into the trap I have already noted, that of not realising just what those differences are in reality and perception for most people in the FSU countries.

Yes, i was falling in the trap... one time with russian and one time with Belgium woman... it was not needed to be married with the Belgium one for loose around 113000 $ ( 9 year sparing money :X )... my russian one was not so much expensive... maybe 10% if i count the dating periode ( trip, meeting, marriage ), food and clothes during several year...

And to be vulgar, if i have need to pay a hoocker for f*ck during 5 year in place of my ex-wife, it was more expensive... Seriously, i have not loose a lot with FSU woman... i am only become more hard and difficult in my choice...

Why i search woman in FSU... because she can accept the standart marriage contract... sharing all during the marriage periode... a Belgium one, in case of end of relation try to take all you have and usually, they are lucky... it is one of the main reason...

And i am sure that it is true for several American men... how much are not already divorce or separated from a American woman... bad experience with local dating lead to foreign dating... the same is true for russian women, several are divorced... of course, i don't understand young babe from 18 yo, never married, who search a foreign man... these are certainly potential GCG...

 

[andrewfi]

Bruno ~ I hate to say this, but you misunderstood what I wrote. The number of foreign workers in the EU is greater than the number of EU wordifferent coutnries of the EU, Labour migration in the EU is very low and is something of an issue for the community.

Here is a quote that makes the point very well, although according to the evidence here, I was wrong and the actual figure is a little less than 2%.

But the Labor Doesn't Move[/b]
However, mobility[/b] in the EU[/b] is low. Within regions and within the Member States, it is lower than within the individual states of the US. Within the EU[/b] as a whole, across national borders, it is much lower than within individual member states of the U.S.
A little over 5 per cent of the EU's[/b] population are non-nationals of the Member State in which they are residents. However, only about one-third of these are EU[/b] nationals. [glow=yellow] Hence, less than 2 per cent of EU nationals are resident in another EU Member State [/glow](although these figures may underestimate the degree of movement that takes place over time, since those who move[/b] also change nationality). The remainder are third country nationals who do not have the right of free movement.
On an annual basis, total migration in the EU[/b] is estimated to around 0.75 per cent of the entire population. Of these, about 25 per cent are nationals returning to their original homeland (0,19 per cent of the total population); and 20 per cent are nationals of other EU[/b] Member States (0,15 per cent of the total). This means that yearly mobility[/b] of EU[/b] nationals within the EU[/b] is less than 0.4 per cent of resident population - 1.5 million people.

Source: europa.eu.int/comm/employment_social/ empl_esf/news/labour.pdf

Bruno ~ If we do not understand the world about us, how can we hope to understand those outside of it - your perception and understanding are errant in respect of your world, in part because you may nothave understood what I wrote, but then if so, how can you understand the motivations of a woman from a different world with whom you share even less culture and language than you and I? You might think you can force her into a 'contract', but in reality you can not. If you can not impose your will on a woman from your community, I shudder to think how badly you will do with one from a differnt world... Eh, OK, we know how well that goes for you, don't we!

[Bruno]

Here is a quote that makes the point very well, although according to the evidence here, I was wrong and the actual figure is a little less than 2%.


Hence, less than 2 per cent of EU nationals are resident in another EU Member State
(although these figures may underestimate the degree of movement that takes place over time, since those who move also change nationality).[/b]

Like i write previously... in bold... these number are underestimate... after 5 year, several take the natinality... Of course, Benelux ( Belgium - Luxembourg - Holland ) have a lot of foreign working in own country because we have a lot of administration from Europe... and i don't count the several American from the Shape ( command center from NATO )... since our 3 languages that we share with our neightbour ( France, Holland, Germany ), the move of population are more high... at least, the size of our population ( equal to Moscow ) and country allow us to move more easy... in my village, we have around 30% of holland people living in Belgium and working in Holland...

And when i was living in big city ( Gent ), i see from my own eyes how much foreign are living here... of course, officially, they are not more foreign since they are become Belgium on paper... For me, my ex-wife is Russian, same if on paper, she is Belgium...

[andrewfi]

Bruno ~ It is nice that you try to make you point, but it does not work. I made a simple point that people do not move around in the EU as much as you thought, specifically that very few people lived and worked permanently in another EU country from that of their birth. You provided evidence that there are many people from outside the EU who are living in the EU (duh!).

If the figures used by the EU were likely to understate the reality by a significant amount then they would have been mentioned. In this kind of context, when language such as 'may underestimate' is used it means that there could be a difference, but it is not worth bothering with - it does not mean 'there is a difference and it is large'. If the amount was significant, it would have been researched and included. If you read the rest of the report you will see the anomalous situation of some countries and of course many of the foreign, EU nationals are only working temporarily in other countries. When  you see people pottering around your park you have no idea whether they are temporary or permanent workers and usually, I warrant, no idea whether they are from the EU or not. Most Europeans do not change nationality when they move from one country to another, within Europe, there is no need or benefit, unless they want to marry a person from outside the EU, or some other similarly outre reason.

Look, not to sound pedantic, but you did not understand what was written previously and trying to shore up your argument with irelevant data and some severe stretching of the boundaries of interpretaion of meaning do not help. Sadly when one does this with relationships, one ends up where you were/are. This is not a pop at you, we all do it at some point and in some areas of our lives, especially when we really, really want to believe something.

[Photo Guy]

Andrew,
Sure, it goes without saying that something valued is exchanged between partners, friends, and lovers. My point is that a GCG is different from a woman who wants a more comfortable life, and a loving husband, and a cozy family, and a healthier environment. I'll agree with you and say that women from the FSU do want generally 'better conditions'.
Sure. But, let's face it- women who are only interested in relocating/citizenship are different from women who are invested emotionally in the relationship and consider the relationship a priority. Am I wrong?

[Photo Guy]

Timmy,
Thanks for a great positive synopsis of your experience. I find it hard to believe that your bride will be grouped in with the GCG label. What if 10% of her motivation is all about better economic conditions? (Andrew)Does that make her a GCG?

It seems to me that Timmy has seen something beautiful and has latched onto it, making a wise choice.

Who here believes or suspects that Timmy's woman is a GCG?
I think he should keep it in the back of his mind. Way in the back, out of sight, because if the notion looms large in his consciousness, it could kill the relationship.

If both individuals in the relationship are overly cautious, the relationship will be a fragile construction.

Fear and love are opposing forces.

Be conscious of motivations and deceptions, but if she's right for you, you must trust her. What is a relationship without trust?

[KenC]

I have to agree with Photoguy that just because a woman seeks a good provider, doesn't warrant the classification of GCG.  I strongly disagree with Andrew's post:

Why not just accept the reality. ALL the women who are actively seeking a US husband are green card girls. No ifs, ands or buts.

Hey, we guys seek out the best looking woman we can possibly find; why is it wrong for a woman to have her own standards?  Of course there is a lot more involved than just looks and ability to provide, but those too are included in each person's individual equation of what makes for a good match.  My wife seriously dated a few RM that would have also been good providers, so she was consistant in her standards.  She didn't seek a US husband exclusively nor did I seek a RW exclusively.  We were both just open to the possibilities.

I would think that a GCG would be defined by the green card being the most important goal on her agenda.  But still these things are not so black & white.  I know of RW who hoped that the marriage would work, but the green card was still the most important part of her equation.  So even in considering GCG's, there are all types.

KenC

[Bruno]

Yes, i have understand what was writen... you insult all woman married with western men... you call them all GCG... you don't wish listen other argument who don't follow your logic... you speak about EU without really know it by the daily life... you own country have only one foot inside, they are newcomer... you judge the motivation of FSU women on some story that somebody have say to you... it is well know that only these who complain make the more noise... And about my personal relation, you know only what i write... and of course, like everybody, i don't write all... it will be too much long and sometime too much personal... yes, i am not perfect, sometime i make mistake... the same with woman... but i learn from my mistake... and i stay see all from a positive side... why do you see all this so negatif, have you personaly life so situation ? Why do you make a crusade against FSU woman and western man... You speak over motivation of other without speak over your own motivation... No, you are not pedantic, you are arrogant...

[Maxx]

I have had 2 1/2 years to think about the subject of "what is a GCG?". To me it is not about their primary motivation to emmigrate but about their intention of making the marriage work that defines whether or not a woman is a GCG.

My ex never gave our marriage a chance. In fact she tried to undermine it secretly and overtly from the beginning as she was getting her documentation and money into her corner. I watched this woman for 4 months (3.75 months too long) build her "landing field" with her contacts and behind my back false allegations. She gathered her allies for what she knew was going to come. No wonder I was a nervous wreck when that day finally came. GCG's set you up from the beginning and they never give you a chance. Believe me guys I know.

Maxx

 

[KenC]

Maxx,

Well, your:

GCG's set you up from the beginning and they never give you a chance.

is even more definitive than what I wrote and makes Andrew's opinion even further off the mark.  Of course, I tend to agree with your viewpoint on this.

[/size]KenC

[anono]

all i know is if i called  "j" and told her  i was buying a flat in kharkov tomorrow she would actually jump up and down and i would hear it on the phone.

in fact, just 15 minutes ago i told her i was thinking seriously about bringing my motorcyle here in the spring. the only thing she didn't like is that i'd be bringing my motorcycle, because it's dangerous.

[RacerX]

Andrew ~ I don't believe I would want you on my trial jury because you seem to have the propensity to  establish fact and cause with only circumstantial data - make that circumstantial feelings: done of us have any irrefutable data on this subject.

Girls have used domestic matchmakers in Russia for generations, so that portion of the equation (the mechanics) is not relevant - what could be, is the need to emigrate as the only viable option.  You have rather detachedly stated or implied that ANY girl who wishes to emigrate ipso facto is a Green Card Girl, without even knowing her relative ordering of the factors she would consider important in her life.  Sure there is a financial component involved - and indeed that is the crux of the matter.  Those girls for whom this element is of primarily importance meet all of the requirements for the classic definition of a GCG.  However, one needs to carefully  distinguish those ladies for whom love, companionship, adventure, and so forth have equal billing. My analogy for these candidates is they are akin to romantic Christopher Columbus's (Christo Columbo).  Sure they will benefit economically, but in essence they are modern day explorers bravely seeking a new life with a man they love.

So anyway, back to the subject at hand: the true, the pure GCG.  Again, I don't subscribe to the simplistic notion that these girls even think of this simple slip of paper as anything more that one of the treasures they will plunder in their pillages of the promised land.  They need a vessel to bring them to our shores, once here they may stay with this man for awhile, or after a brief period cast him adrift.  These girls are economic immigrants who have used the K-visa process to further their goals.  If we (the USA) offered an equally appealing process to come here, they would have used that route instead.  But, with few exceptions, these are not evil women (although when you face them in a courtroom, nary a man hasn't had thoughts of divine intervention doing them in), but instead these are just women "with a plan."

Their plan is very simple to execute: "bookmark" Maxx's post and follow it religiously.  The tools to accomplish this goal are also rather simple: one WM, some sex, a couple of meetings, and voila: GC here we come.  Once here, the GWAP (girl with a plan) is often quite pleasant with her AMu (American Mule) and honestly enjoys doing things with him, including sex.  But almost immediately upon landing, she has her 'feelers' out and about, and as Maxx has written upthead, begins to establish her network of likewise minded GWAPs.  Sooner or later she makes the "big move:" divorce, another man, and a new and "better life."  However the GWAP is looking for more than just money - she will most always need an education thrown into the pot.  If she's young, it's likely she will need/want a good job, and she eventually will want to satisfy her urge to create a family with a man she actually loves.  

I've observed three of these GWAP the past few months, and although the are like 'ticking bombs' only one of them has 'gone off.' She had messy confrontation with her AMu husband; the police were called, and quite amazingly she was charged but shortly thereafter departed to Ukraine .  The other two are still enjoying there lives as 'sleeper GCGs" although I am sure they will spring into action when the appropriate time arrives.

If asked how to detect these GWAPs or GCGs, yes look at what others have said, but in the end its the AMu failings that allow them to propagate.  Currently there are no immunizations available, but I am sure Maxx could write a treatise on the proper anti-GCG prophylactics to employ.