Operation White Panther

[Muzh]

Pat, excellent story.


However, you didn't fall for the old "almost fell so grab me and hold my hand" trick. Just kidding.


You are doing good.

[Rubicon]

you cannot see really, because the quality of the photo is too low,
but there are two knifes inside the high heels, 

Is that a joke or were you serious?

[Patagonie]

Is that a joke or were you serious?

Rubicon dear buddy
It's a joke of course

[Patagonie]

Everybody thank for yours compliments
Thank to you now i know a new verb : to swoon.

Next post i'm going to tackle the sad side of inside feelings because life, and in particular the FSU adventure, is really like a mountain hiking, sometimes you feel easy and enjoy, and just after you struggle and are exhausted, almost ready to come back to the car to stop all.
This is the part perhaps the less known of this adventure, but surely not the less important (i would have already done it but my post had been lost after a reset of the computer  <-- computer) , because we are not always warriors and i don't care of the image or the picture i can convey through my trip.  With my weakness and my strenghs i try to do with who am i.
I've many things to tell you yet and we will speak about, in connection with the trip, my previous GF and the atmosphere around the foreigner system/cash machine, which, in my opinion is the most important plant of failure between your goal and your future wife. (Professionals in named label and private as separate operator).
Kindly Pat.

[Rubicon]

Thanks Pat for your excellent observations, keep em coming!   

[Patagonie]

Interesting information :
i've come from my dentist and we checked together the work which has been done one week ago in Dnepropetrovsk. Excellent, the canal had been correctly cleaned and the second teeth had been correctly cured and filled with compound.
So yes technicaly dentists are late of 20 years but they are good in their practice (provided that you meet a good one of course). Total price : if i don't make any mistake : 860 grv. With two radios : one before and one to check at the end.
As you know it can be a very good plan to schedule with your travel some appointements to repare your tooth, it can pay a large part of your expenses. 

[ML]

As you know it can be a very good plan to schedule with your travel some appointements to repare your tooth, it can pay a large part of your expenses.

This has been discussed in several earlier threads.
Some say good things about dentists in FSU and some have had horror stories.
Myself, I wouldn't do it.

[Faux Pas]

Interesting information :
i've come from my dentist and we checked together the work which has been done one week ago in Dnepropetrovsk. Excellent, the canal had been correctly cleaned and the second teeth had been correctly cured and filled with compound.
So yes technicaly dentists are late of 20 years but they are good in their practice (provided that you meet a good one of course). Total price : if i don't make any mistake : 860 grv.
As you know it can be a very good plan to schedule with your travel some appointements to repare your tooth, it can pay a large part of your expenses. 

Shortly after my wife's arrival to the US she had a severe toothache. Unfortunately, she wasn't on my dental plan at the time because of open enrollment limitations. Silly me I only bought a separate medical insurance not dental when she arrived, so anyway, I took her to my dentist who is quite good and capable. He wouldn't touch it and suggested another, a specialist in another city to deal with the problem. The main problem being the glue/cement used in two root canals that were inadequately performed was so hard and unlike anything used in the west. It required special procedures to open up, correct the root canal and fix the teeth


My wife was floored. The root canals were performed less than a year earlier and by the best dentist in Tomsk. She paid $800 total for both teeth. It took $4000 to correct it.


Hopefully it works out for the best for you Pat but don't count those savings just yet.

[Patagonie]

Shortly after my wife's arrival to the US she had a severe toothache. Unfortunately, she wasn't on my dental plan at the time because of open enrollment limitations. Silly me I only bought a separate medical insurance not dental when she arrived, so anyway, I took her to my dentist who is quite good and capable. He wouldn't touch it and suggested another, a specialist in another city to deal with the problem. The main problem being the glue/cement used in two root canals that were inadequately performed was so hard and unlike anything used in the west. It required special procedures to open up, correct the root canal and fix the teeth


My wife was floored. The root canals were performed less than a year earlier and by the best dentist in Tomsk. She paid $800 total for both teeth. It took $4000 to correct it.


Hopefully it works out for the best for you Pat but don't count those savings just yet.

Thank you for this valuable information and sorry for you for this extra expense. I would give more information later about the cement used in Dnepropetrovsk as i asked a metal crown.

[Patagonie]

 Hi
I don't know you, but me, each time after my return from FSU i always feel sad during few days, and in particular each time i've had a promising relation.
The dechirure is something particular, and more when you are leaving a lady in the beginning of the relationship. It depends of the solidity of the relationship for sure.
In my situation you should know that for the moment i have no news from blue sweeties, nada, zero.
Ok fellows, i stop you, i know what you want me to say --> FLAG ORANGE.
So my work had been quickly around H+72 to cool  down and to turn me off emotionnaly.
It's the work to do, the way to go. Because i'm not this sort of spotty teenager and i know the law. I remember few years ago when i was in a big breakdown. In such case you loose the north, you loose the pace and you try to find the compass and you don't, curling to loss the control, I REMEMBER my favorite sentence : " the most urgent is to do nothing". It's the sentence to remind, the words which must flash on the 20' screen of your computer.
I mean when the odds put you in the zero state, the west culture manages it with a huge difficulty. The wait is not at all something in our culture. The acceptance is the contrary of action. You are always  thinking that you can do something but you act only to exist, which can interfere negatively with your goals and yours interests. Because the most terrible for a everybody is because we are  afraid of heights.
This girl hasn't given any news. And what ? What can i do ? Send the FBI ?

 
I sent few SMS and try to call from France. No answer.
So now i know what i have to do , i'm going to tell you :

   Unfortunately in the common life (here in rwd we can say that a lot of OP are not common, of course, in view of the stake) i see a lot of people who are suffering their life more than they  lead it. I see many people staying stucked for example in a long term relationship, knowing for example that their partner is not at all an adequate person, they know it, but they cannot move. Or They are staying in an unsatisfactory job but without trying to change.  They don't want enter into the risk, which is the countepart of the success.
It's the same for a lot of guys who are going in FSU, they think they manage their travel but in fact no. It's why it's better to stay in control during travel by dividing ressources : i mean the girl, backup B for those who try WOVO, adress of agency 1 in case of if you try a WOVO, the interpreter, phone of interpreter 2 in case of,  the rental agency in his driver. Each time that you let odds take control for a large part of your travel you are going nowhere. Why ? Because we are lazy, it's easier to let you in the flow rather to fight against it.
   I saw many guys, after date 2 ou 3 with a girl, they feel sad because they say Anna don't know what she want, nothing really happened. In general it's because they don't know exactly what they want, and they have no really idea of how to assess the progress of the relation. If you don't know where you want to go in the relation, don't ask to the girls it's not their job, it's your !
       I can say to you that each time with a girl i had been ready to lose the relation in 90% the relationship had grown !
 
   My strategic plan with this girl is very simple :
   Mid june she should come back in her city. The 16 if i have no news i have a meeting scheduled for a long time with two girls and one has a marvellous ass, have you seen a Ferrari Testarossa from behind ? She has almost the same curves, It will time to book a place in Monza's paddock, we will see.
   Deadline : 20 june, if no news i will plan my second travel in Dnepropetrovsk ? Simple no ?
   To success, you know, you need to have the odds, you know it perfectly, it can make all the difference. Do you know why i'm a little angry ? Because i make a perfect plan : 17 days (or 18 or more but after you must keep some vacation for the following travels to stick to your love affair) is really the time to take because you have 7 days to see all your first meetings, see your preferences a second time, and with the short liste you still have TWO weeks end to spend with your lady (or your short list).
And believe it, i did this plan in september 09 and guess what, just 4 days after my arrival my lady, whith who i really match (and she was very interested), was saying to me that she needed to go abroad in vacation. And this travel, in Dnepropetrovsk the same happened.
 

 
   But by the ways, fellows where is the problem ?
   Have you noticed that often WE are often the problem. I mean we see problems where they aren't. And sometimes you make it, so they happen.
   Try to use the empathic way and change our skin, you want to follow me ?
   Ok next next  (next is poetry, you need it everybody, you speak too much of flight and $)  post (i don't forget that we have a lot of things to speak as previous GF and the dirty part of the business around the international dating) we will change of skin, ok ?

[Patagonie]

je reprends l'auto-strade ŕ contre sens
J'envoies 240 dans la courbe ascendante
et j'entends le son dans l'espace intérieur
s'exhiber en tenue de soirée
I can see the plane burning in the sunshine
I feel right because the day shine in the moonlight
After the rain, i let the overdrive until the patrol has gone
Je tire trois cartouches de givre en bordure de mer
et j'étaye les couches de gypse dans la clairičre claire
qui laisse ŕ l'idéal surgir la lisičre des fantasmes
Je n'aurai jamais cru que mourir fut ressurgir
et que ma peine dans le couchant de l'océan
fut précaire comme l'idéal le fut ŕ l'arc boutant
et la travée de chęne vierge dans la trouée
et que le DH88 fut une comčte qui m'emporterait dans le ciel
Je désire dis tu
Tu me dis que le je n'a pas de rigueur
mais quand je reprends le clavier
composite de cristal
dans l'ouverture de la cathédrale
je joins mes doigts au saillant de l'art roman
et de dérives de blondes orbitales en vaines mondaines
pendant que vous étiez toute seule dans la chambre funéraire
Je revois le transatlantique dans la trouée du Pacifique
Et maintenant que nous sommes seuls au préau
Je revois tes doigts d'amarante dans la conque de mon enfance
et je n'aurais jamais cru qu'il fut possible de descendre ŕ l'équerre
le long d'une vie empreinte de tant de féminité
et de vivre la sčvre onirique, des nuits satiriques,
When a lady in the night, during a kick flip, is leaving the way needed to be
After the loop you must fill the complementary document
if you want to escape from the earth.
I will never know the name of the old mystery
But i can see in the fog of the river the knights arising from the Mordor.

Pat

[SANDRO43]

The dechirure is something particular, and more when you are leaving a lady in the beginning of the relationship.

Should we call you Pat-Agonie now ?

[ML]

Many of our regulars often are quick to critize others saying 'they can't make a choice, are always looking  for the next gal, etc.'

Now here, we see a man who did make a choice; but the gods were not kind  to him.

They sent his chosen gal away; and we even learn that this has happened to Pat before.

I feel for you Pat and the pain you are enduring now.  I hope you can find some way  to ease the pain.

Best to you.

[Patagonie]

Should we call you Pat-Agonie now ?

No Sandro, Fortunately i'm not.

[Patagonie]

I was saying in my post 234 that each time the relationship with a FSU woman don't progress or if there is a problem you must have a plan as, contrary to the locals one, time will not help in the long term. Too many variables can appear. And you must stick to your plan elseif you are waisting your time, and so your life. Plan means deadline, and action.

For the moment, i'm in a unpleasant position : i'm waiting, not knowing what will happen AT ALL.
In general the common way for people is to try to reduce their anxiety, BECAUSE we need to be validated as human (tell me i'm beautiful, tell me i'm strong, tell me i'm intelligent, tell me i'm interesting, tell me i'm the best....). Some a lot, some a little. BECAUSE humans don't like the unknow, the uncertainty.

I would say, rather than to try to control external odds i prefer to work on my internal world. Life learnt me that it's more easy to change yourself rather than to change others. And surprisingly, by changing you are triggering something in others' demeanor. True ! Unbelievable but true.

My way is
1/ to disengage me emotionaly
2/ decrease my level of interest for her progressively in time or cease it
3/ Prepare an other plan

To finish it happens sometimes (it happened recently with a local one) that you win a women, you have a big connection, you make  a projection together (have a drink, go to the club, hiking .... get married if it is a FSU) and suddenly she escapes and flees.
Because 1/ you raise her at a so high level during the date that she is NOT this person she has become during your interaction. Often she is not capable to maintain the identity of a very sexy girl, merry, joking girl, dancing girl, feminine girl, BECAUSE for example in the daily life she spend a lot of her life looking the tv  and generally avoid to take decision (procratination), in her private life she is quite not really a funny person on a daily basis. .
2/ The social pressure is high because she begins to speak with her friends (or family) about what happening with you and what are the projection, and of course these persons are saying : you are foolish, you know him from two hours, and tatati and tatatata. Already, in usual time girls are not really self confident so now you imagine !
I'm explaining this because sometimes you have a great interaction with a woman and you can however lose her. In general it's a problem of comfort, you need to spend more time with her, or to decrease your seduction level a little. It can be know as buyer's remorse but not always

But remember i was saying
 "Try to use the empathic way and change our skin, you want to follow me ?" (post 234)

  Remember you let a lady at one o clock in the morning, and at this moment her interest is maximal.
The following day she receives your whole introduction, her interest raises again. Despite her job and the need to pack all, she finds the time to read it (9 pages) and to answer you sweetly.
The next day when you are disappointed to not meet her again because she needs time to pack an discuss with her sister she assures you (or reassures you ?) that we will keep in touch and she proposes you to take days off to go to Crimean in vacations (your preferred destination : proof that she really listened you because you had told her that you really wish to visit this area).
She is going to see her sister and she knows that you have decided to return earlier in your country, because you have said and demonstrated that it's HER, i repeat, for her it's happened : You are the guy with who she is having chemistry and you elected her. For a woman it's very important, they believed in this sort of thing. She is elected, by you, by the destiny (ten years ago an aunt said to her that she will get married with a tall foreigner with beautifuls hands and she never forgot the prediciton, you never know the power of this sort of things)

Now why she doesn't give any news ? Ah Ah Ah, i don't know ?
I think she is a voiced women, i'm pretty sure (some women prefer write, some prefer to speak)
Perhaps she is with an other fellow, an ukrainian/russian businessman who lives between Moscow and Ukraine. Or her time vacation is splitted between her sister and a foreigner suitor (2 weeks with her sister and one with the guy). How can we know ?

Do you believe really this sort of woman is alone, without any suitors ? Don't be naďve, of course, not. It is not the nature of the woman, and this one is in at least one marriage agency and it is the beginning of the year for the chase for every foreigners (us).

So it's simple it doesn't matter if she is with her sister or not. With a suitor or not, or she got F.... every night by an other fellow. No, really. It's more simple.

If she always really proposes me some vacation together (and i can be free in the first mid of july) it means that i'm  entering in the competition and i'm totally worth on it. And believe me she will remember of this vacation i can tell you !!! Because for Crimean i have already my game plan (and of course it will begin before the real event). 

So i repeat : it's very simple, just two weeks to wait (make sports, make my business, improve my skills in english and russian).
And of course, give her almost no news now.
YOU CANNOT reward a women who gives you any news by sending her always a high level of interest, of course, it will be the most stupid thing to do. And above all, doing this, you are working against you.



 

[The Natural]

I'm sorry to hear this girl is silent on you Pat. Who knows what's going on? It's just speculation. Let's hope she gets in touch with you real soon and that the reason she did not before is a good one. Keep up the spirits Pat 

[Muzh]

When I contacted my wife for the first time, she took a whole month to reply back to me. I replied the same day and it took another month for her to reply to me. On my third email to her I simply stated that if she wanted to know me to give me a phone nmbere where I can call her because if I had to wait a month for each reply I was going to die of old age before I ever meet her in person.
 
I received an email the next day with a phone number.
 
Just saying.

[Patagonie]

I'm sorry to hear this girl is silent on you Pat. Who knows what's going on? It's just speculation. Let's hope she gets in touch with you real soon and that the reason she did not before is a good one. Keep up the spirits Pat 

You are right it's pure speculation. So it's time to disconnect and to be patient, but with a deadline of course. Thank Natural for your support.

[Patagonie]

When I contacted my wife for the first time, she took a whole month to reply back to me. I replied the same day and it took another month for her to reply to me. On my third email to her I simply stated that if she wanted to know me to give me a phone nmbere where I can call her because if I had to wait a month for each reply I was going to die of old age before I ever meet her in person.
 
I received an email the next day with a phone number.
 
Just saying.

Muzh you make me laugh with your story "I was going to die of old age before I ever meet her in person"
 
However she has a phone, she has an email and i have these contact details. I know ukrainian girls don't pick up because of roaming when they are in Russia, and it's not cheap, and a lot of people (almost all ?) have prepaid card.
As Natural has said it's just speculation, but for sure her explanation, if events allow such a thing, would be interesting anyways.

[ML]

Muzh's comments just reminded me of the vast differences that can exist between persons regarding need or desire to communicate.

This is irrespective of who they are communicating with.

Some people are talkers, some are writers, etc.  Some are neither.

Some want to reply to messages as soon as possible, some always put off replying as long as possible.

I would think that there has to be some relationship between timely communication and romantic interest; but I don't think the relationship is linear.

That is to say, just because a person doesn't reply in a timely fashion doesn't mean they have zero interest in you; although it could mean that.

I have one very good male friend.  He is the greatest guy ever on a day to day basis and will provide any help I or his other friends need, etc.  But, he sometimes can disappear for weeks at a time and never tells anyone that he was even planning a trip.  Despite myself and others telling him over several years how disconcerting this is  . . . .  he professes to see nothing wrong with his behavior and doesn't understand why we would even be thinking about him when he is gone since he always reestablishes contact when he returns.

Out of sight; out of mind.  But when near; very much in mind.

Just another of the compatibility issues when looking for a mate.

[Patagonie]

Muzh's comments just reminded me of the vast differences that can exist between persons regarding need or desire to communicate.

This is irrespective of who they are communicating with.

Some people are talkers, some are writers, etc.  Some are neither.

Some want to reply to messages as soon as possible, some always put off replying as long as possible.

I would think that there has to be some relationship between timely communication and romantic interest; but I don't think the relationship is linear.

That is to say, just because a person doesn't reply in a timely fashion doesn't mean they have zero interest in you; although it could mean that.

I have one very good male friend.  He is the greatest guy ever on a day to day basis and will provide any help I or his other friends need, etc.  But, he sometimes can disappear for weeks at a time and never tells anyone that he was even planning a trip.  Despite myself and others telling him over several years how disconcerting this is  . . . .  he professes to see nothing wrong with his behavior and doesn't understand why we would even be thinking about him when he is gone since he always reestablishes contact when he returns.

Out of sight; out of mind.  But when near; very much in mind.

Just another of the compatibility issues when looking for a mate.

Very good post ManLooking, you are right we are very different. I think her message, before leaving Dnepr, was in substance : (i use your owns words) "Out of sight; out of mind.  But when near; very much in mind", time will show if this one is validated in fact

[Muzh]

I don't know Pat but, women like to be chased after. NOT stalked, chased. It shows them your interest in her. Something like a short SMS saying "I'm thinking of you" and all that sweet nonsense can go a long way.

[Patagonie]

I don't know Pat but, women like to be chased after. NOT stalked, chased. It shows them your interest in her. Something like a short SMS saying "I'm thinking of you" and all that sweet nonsense can go a long way.

I did it Muzh, since our (me for Kharkov, her for Moscow) departure from Dnep i send 3 SMS the 26,
28 and 31 (and i tried a call also the 31). The last one finished by "i'll be please to know how you are". I think it's enough now.
You are right they don't like at all to be stalked.
But about they like to be chased after, i have an other theory, and an appropriate practice, and for what i've seen, in the west,  i can say this new one is really really more successful since three years than the years before. 
Really it costs almost nothing in money and in time to her to go in an internet shop, and write 3 lines in an email.
Time will show. But however it's an orange flag.

[ML]

Pat, another aspect of  this.

Just suppose . . . she has been on dates with several foreign guys.

And many of these foreign guys said: "I will come back to see you again."

And most of these foreign guys did not come back.

Now factor in she only saw you twice.

Perhaps you are expecting too much given her possible prior experiences.

[Patagonie]

Pat, another aspect of  this.

Just suppose . . . she has been on dates with several foreign guys.

And many of these foreign guys said: "I will come back to see you again."

And most of these foreign guys did not come back.

Now factor in she only saw you twice.

Perhaps you are expecting too much given her possible prior experiences.

Interesting.
I've a very suspicious side and on other hand i have a commited sentimental side too. There is one thing i really like with those FSU women : i mean they are open, they are new, they are ready to go, they want to live, they are not so tormented than their western counterparts.
Of course i don't know her previous experiences, but really the guy who don't take time to make a second trip would be really stupid. She is really crunchy.