A new member, early 30s with some FSU experience

[lutein]

Hi all,

Just saying hello. I'm a male in my early thirties, currently living in the midwest region of the USA. I'm looking for a woman to marry. A bit about me:

Dating experience:

I've dated off and on in various cities during my 20s but haven't found anyone compelling enough for me to settle down. Of the women I've dated, I've felt the strong connection with European ones -- including a Ukrainian who came here on her own with a green card. These days I find online dating in the USA to be low yield. I did some searching and expanded to the sites recommended to new folks here (Elena's Models, fdating, etc).

Personality/looks/career:

I'm reasonably financially well off (low seven figures) with a high-income, low-stress job. I'm introverted and enjoy things like reading, cooking, being outside, etc. I'm white, average height, still have most of my hair, slender.

Children:

If it was up to me, I'd probably opt for no children. But my preference for a loving partnership with a woman is such that I'm open to children if it's important to my partner. And I suspect for most FSU women, children will be desired.

Plan:

I gather that it's best to plan a visit to meet women fairly quickly after starting to chat with them. So perhaps a trip sometime early next year. Given visa restrictions and COVID, sounds like good meet-up spots could include Georgia, Turkey, maybe Ukraine. I think ideally writing to many women and visiting many women would be optimal, so as to avoid all eggs in one basket.

Also, I've started Russian duolingo courses. Seems like a good investment regardless.

Questions:

- I've considered using an agency simply to save time, but it seems this approach is not encouraged. Are there any legit agencies that folks recommend? I tried to visit a link to some on an old post to some, but it didn't seem to work.
- Any advice for navigating the visa / COVID situation? Anyone traveled recently? Should I focus my search on, say, Ukraine instead of Russia?
http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/russia-travel-advisory.html
- Anything else I should be thinking about?

Thanks!

[Trenchcoat]

Hi all,

Just saying hello. I'm a male in my early thirties, currently living in the midwest region of the USA. I'm looking for a woman to marry. A bit about me:

Dating experience:

I've dated off and on in various cities during my 20s but haven't found anyone compelling enough for me to settle down. Of the women I've dated, I've felt the strong connection with European ones -- including a Ukrainian who came here on her own with a green card. These days I find online dating in the USA to be low yield. I did some searching and expanded to the sites recommended to new folks here (Elena's Models, fdating, etc).

Personality/looks/career:

I'm reasonably financially well off (low seven figures) with a high-income, low-stress job. I'm introverted and enjoy things like reading, cooking, being outside, etc. I'm white, average height, still have most of my hair, slender.

Children:

If it was up to me, I'd probably opt for no children. But my preference for a loving partnership with a woman is such that I'm open to children if it's important to my partner. And I suspect for most FSU women, children will be desired.

Plan:

I gather that it's best to plan a visit to meet women fairly quickly after starting to chat with them. So perhaps a trip sometime early next year. Given visa restrictions and COVID, sounds like good meet-up spots could include Georgia, Turkey, maybe Ukraine. I think ideally writing to many women and visiting many women would be optimal, so as to avoid all eggs in one basket.

Also, I've started Russian duolingo courses. Seems like a good investment regardless.

Questions:

- I've considered using an agency simply to save time, but it seems this approach is not encouraged. Are there any legit agencies that folks recommend? I tried to visit a link to some on an old post to some, but it didn't seem to work.
- Any advice for navigating the visa / COVID situation? Anyone traveled recently? Should I focus my search on, say, Ukraine instead of Russia?
http://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/russia-travel-advisory.html
- Anything else I should be thinking about?

Thanks!

  lutein

Early next year? They'll probably have all have had it with the virus by then. Seriously though in normal times FSW would expect you to meet after a few weeks of messaging and a Skype session or two. Now some do go on longer than that but many FSW kind of get fed up with guys that talk but never visit. So yelling her next year at this point may put her off. Even with Virus (and things are getting bad for it out in Ukraine at the moment) FSW will probably get bored of messaging and want you to meet soon. Sometimes a guy can get to know a FSW over a longer period through messaging but many get fed up after a while.

It's sounds like you've got the sort of wealth many FSW like to see. How attractive a guy is looks wise still counts though so a site like Fdate is good as it's a free site so no one pulling the strings. That way you can see what your pulling power with FSW is like for real.

I would say don't believe all you hear about FSW wanting children. I think many do not they just know that most WM will want children and so they say they do even if they are not all that set on the idea. I think particularly FSW in their thirties may not want children, I've come across a few on Fdate that didn't. There will be a few FSW that are dead set on wanting children but they often state in their profile. In my opinion by the time a FSW reaches her thirties if she doesn't want children then either, she knows she can't have them, she just doesn't want them, she's into career or into just wanting a lover/companion or she is after a pension plan. The last one I think tends to be more women in their late thirties, early forties and thereafter.


I'm surprised the other guys haven't chipped in on this thread yet.

[ML]

Go here and read it all.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=14615.0

I'm reasonably financially well off (low seven figures) with a high-income.

Are you saying your net worth is in the low millions of dollars, or that your yearly income is one million dollars or more ?

[lutein]

Thanks for the replies, especially the comment about children. Sounds like might be best to hold off until next year to start messaging, closer to when I can travel.

>Are you saying your net worth is in the low millions of dollars, or that your yearly income is one million dollars or more ?

The first hehe. I wish the second.

[Trenchcoat]

Thanks for the replies, especially the comment about children. Sounds like might be best to hold off until next year to start messaging, closer to when I can travel.

>Are you saying your net worth is in the low millions of dollars, or that your yearly income is one million dollars or more ?

The first hehe. I wish the second.

That's kind of what I do as otherwise I find I have a long way to run on messaging conversations before I get there. That can be a bit exhausting/time consuming after a while and even the girl may well get fed up off it. In the meantime learning some basic Russian words and phrases to acclimatise yourself in any spare moments of free time isn't a bad idea. It can be a bit different feeling out there I find than to most European countries so anything like that which can help you feel more in tune with the culture can help I think.

[Boethius]

I would say don't believe all you hear about FSW wanting children. I think many do not they just know that most WM will want children and so they say they do even if they are not all that set on the idea. I think particularly FSW in their thirties may not want children, I've come across a few on Fdate that didn't. There will be a few FSW that are dead set on wanting children but they often state in their profile. In my opinion by the time a FSW reaches her thirties if she doesn't want children then either, she knows she can't have them, she just doesn't want them, she's into career or into just wanting a lover/companion or she is after a pension plan. The last one I think tends to be more women in their late thirties, early forties and thereafter.

I normally wouldn't comment on this type of thread, but given OP, you seem to take this "advice" to heart, I must comment.  Ignore this.  If a woman doesn't want children, she will tell you.  It's actually pretty rare for an FSUW not to want children - not saying it doesn't happen, but it's uncommon.  Many women don't want to raise a child without a father, and that's why they are childless in their thirties.

[ML]

I normally wouldn't comment on this type of thread, but given OP, you seem to take this "advice" to heart, I must comment.  Ignore this.  If a woman doesn't want children, she will tell you.  It's actually pretty rare for an FSUW not to want children - not saying it doesn't happen, but it's uncommon.  Many women don't want to raise a child without a father, and that's why they are childless in their thirties.

And . . . don't totally count on it when a young woman says she doesn't want children.

Many (most) will sing a different song in some later year.

Two long time posters here have experienced this.

[Davo]

Are you getting women off the site and chatting on a deeper level Trench?..... I’ve had women in their early 40’s tell me the would consider having another child if that’s what I wanted too.

[Davo]

Thanks for the replies, especially the comment about children. Sounds like might be best to hold off until next year to start messaging, closer to when I can travel.

>Are you saying your net worth is in the low millions of dollars, or that your yearly income is one million dollars or more ?

The first hehe. I wish the second.

Welcome.....I’d advise you to get on the dating sites now and gain some experience. It’s easy to make basic mistakes when you first start out. I’ve had a few women end things abruptly online, just because I said the wrong thing. Also you might have to chat with lots of women to find a few you have a good connection with and don’t exhibit red flags..... There’s nothing wrong with starting to write to women 6 months before traveling, if they know you’re a serious man. Most men who write to them are keyboard Romeos and never intend to get on plane. The most recent successful guy I know met his Ukrainian fiancée online 8 months before they met in real life. He’s 37 and she’s 35 and she was the only stand out that best suited him and one of only a few women that replied on fdating. He’d took the correct oath after loosing 3k on PPL sites.


Like the guy above experienced, the other reason is I’ve seen men in their 30’s have a much harder time meeting genuine women. You will experience more scammers and fake profiles and also have more competition from men your age and older men too. I tried to help a guy from the UK last year who was 31, he seemed a good catch on paper, but gave up after 3 months on fdating due to frustration..... Not one woman replied to him except email scammers (he did have some unrealistic expectations by messaging the most attractive women)....Definitely the best age group to meet genuine women is in their late 30’s to mid 50’s. I can pull 10 or more women in this age group off the site and onto Skype in less than a week.It could take you months to achieve this with younger women, so you’ll need time and patience before you travel.

[BC]

As self-employed, financial resources were a factor, but more importantly, time available to be away from work for extended periods.  I spent a couple of months on two trips to RU to be with my wife before we got married there.  It affected my earnings considerably.  Working on the road, time differences, etc makes it more difficult to manage things at home.

[civi68]

I used www.dmlongin.com with some success. You pay upfront to join which is better than paying per letter. I visited some agencies where the workers were typing fake letters without a letter in front of them. I would avoid any agencies that want you to pay thousands up front. What I usually do would start writing women 6 months before traveling and then decide where to travel based upon my and the woman/women's interest. I would also see if there any agencies in that area for back-up or support. Don't travel to see a woman unless you have talked a few times on video.
   As for country, if are willing to travel anywhere, don't limit your options. But it may be best to pick one country when searching for women online to not get overloaded. The main difference I experienced was in Moscow where the women tended to be more educated and had better jobs.
   One thing that needs to be said is don't send money, gifts, etc, to any woman you have not met in person. Seriously consider dropping any woman who asks for these things before you meet her. When you meet them, resist the urge to buy them a lot of gifts or to send money after you get home except for special occasions.
     Learning some Russian definitely helps. I recommend you buy the book, "The New Penguin Russian Course A Complete Guide for Beginners." It has been in print for a long time for good reasons. A shorter book to supplement it would be, "Essential Russian Grammar: All the Grammer Really Needed for Speech and Comprehension." On my last trip, I knew enough to Russian to get by without a translator. It makes a BIG Difference.

[civi68]

Wanted to add that when I was searching in my early 30's, it was hard to find a woman without children who did not want them. Telling them upfront that you don't want children will screen out the ones who consider it a deal breaker. The women who want children will not change their mind and be more likely to think they can change your mind. But be prepared to lose several candidates.

[ML]

Wanted to add that when I was searching in my early 30's, it was hard to find a woman without children who did not want them. Telling them upfront that you don't want children will screen out the ones who consider it a deal breaker. The women who want children will not change their mind and be more likely to think they can change your mind. But be prepared to lose several candidates.

You can screen out women who say up front they want children.

But then you end up with the women who say they don't, who will always change their minds later to wanting.

[civi68]

Yep, and when they change their mind you are in for a battle where she is willing to leave over it. Having adult children sometimes doesn't help, either. I had one woman who had an adult daughter with a child. She wanted a man who would help support her daughter/granddaughter with monthly payments and eventually have them move to America with the man. Imagine having an FSU wife, adult daughter, and granddaughter living in your home?

[ML]

Yep, and when they change their mind you are in for a battle where she is willing to leave over it. Having adult children sometimes doesn't help, either. I had one woman who had an adult daughter with a child. She wanted a man who would help support her daughter/granddaughter with monthly payments and eventually have them move to America with the man. Imagine having an FSU wife, adult daughter, and granddaughter living in your home?

Reminds me somewhat of a story I heard back 20 or so years ago.
This AM had been sent by his company to Morocco for a year long assignment.  He was divorced.

He flirted almost daily with a local woman who worked in a restaurant.
Local men advised him that nothing would come of this because their women did not do the casual dating thingy.

But one day, out of the blue, she invited him to her home for dinner.

He went, but was disappointed that her female cousin and the cousin's father, a military general, were present.

After a nice meal, the woman announced that they would marry and that the cousin would accompany her to USA and live with them.

The general stated that he could arrange all of the necessary paperwork (which maybe he could from the perspective of that country, but not from  perspective of getting approvals from USA).

This guy became quite nervous wondering just how many  soldiers were lurking nearby should he become uncooperative.

He was able to gracefully extract himself and, when safely away, thought . . . holy sheeeeet . . . I thought this was just going to be a meal !!!

[ML]

I had one woman who had an adult daughter with a child. She wanted a man who would help support her daughter/granddaughter with monthly payments and eventually have them move to America with the man. Imagine having an FSU wife, adult daughter, and granddaughter living in your home?

Just recalled that I faced a similar situation with 2  FSU women (that I knew of and there could have been several more with, as of yet, hidden relatives in USA).

With these two women, they had daughters living in USA with AM husbands.

I got some vibes that the women's over riding interest in me had to do with living in USA to at least be in the same country as their daughters.

They could have had genuine interest in me for myself . . . but it was just too much of an orange flag for me . . . given the number of other FSU women available to pursue.

[rwd123]

If it was up to me, I'd probably opt for no children. But my preference for a loving partnership with a woman is such that I'm open to children if it's important to my partner.

If you do not want children then do not look for a partner (wife). Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Just date and enjoy life. If so simply travel and use dating apps (Badoo, Tinder, etc.)

Definitely the best age group to meet genuine women is in their late 30’s to mid 50’s.

Guys can also grab a pick and hunt for fossils but unless you're a paleontologist it's probably not a worthwhile endeavor... unless you are a fossil yourself. 

[ML]

Definitely the best age group to meet genuine women is in their late 30’s to mid 50’s.

I screened for ages 35-50, and virtually every woman I met, I would consider genuine . . . so seems you are correct.

[Boethius]

If you do not want children then do not look for a partner (wife). Do not pass go, do not collect $200. Just date and enjoy life. If so simply travel and use dating apps (Badoo, Tinder, etc.)

Dating is fine for men who don't want long term commitment.  But you never know a person until you live with them, day in and day out. 

You are assuming what works for you (superficial relationships) is good for someone else.  Not everyone is "built" the same, and much would depend on what OP, who is probably getting bad advice in PM's, wants in life.

can also grab a pick and hunt for fossils but unless you're a paleontologist it's probably not a worthwhile endeavor... unless you are a fossil yourself. 

So a woman in her mid to late thirties/early forties is a "fossil"?  So where, exactly, does that place you?

[Trenchcoat]

Dating might not be a bad idea to get a better idea of what relationship might suit best. A lot of guys settle at the first girl willing to say yes to a LTR with them but they may not be all that suited.

A long term companion to share life with can be good but sometimes it may go stale or boring possibly. The right woman might possibly be ok to be with as aging occurs. I couldn't help think just today though that do I want to be tucked up in bed with an old lady as she ages, I'm not so sure. Some people decide on single rooms/beds for each other at that point. It may sound superficial but for both concerned it may not be a pleasant sight to wake up to in the morning.

[John Gaunt]

Dating might not be a bad idea to get a better idea of what relationship might suit best. A lot of guys settle at the first girl willing to say yes to a LTR with them but they may not be all that suited.

A long term companion to share life with can be good but sometimes it may go stale or boring possibly. The right woman might possibly be ok to be with as aging occurs. I couldn't help think just today though that do I want to be tucked up in bed with an old lady as she ages, I'm not so sure. Some people decide on single rooms/beds for each other at that point. It may sound superficial but for both concerned it may not be a pleasant sight to wake up to in the morning.

Maybe that old lady won’t want to be tucked up in bed with you, snoring and farting and scratching your bollocks. 

[rwd123]

You are assuming what works for you (superficial relationships) is good for someone else.

You assume that dating is superficial. There are real and inherent risks in marriage and co-habitation for men. They're unlikely to be worth the risk for a man who has no desire for children.

So a woman in her mid to late thirties/early forties is a "fossil"?  So where, exactly, does that place you?

Above ground.

[Boethius]

You assume that dating is superficial. There are real and inherent risks in marriage and co-habitation for men. They're unlikely to be worth the risk for a man who has no desire for children.

I didn't post that dating is superficial.  I posted that dating relationships are superficial.  They are.  You can't truly know a person until you have lived with him/her, day in and day out, for at least a year, probably longer.

I don't know what it's like where you live, but where I live, prenuptial agreements are legally binding obligations that protect both pre marital assets and those post marital assets the parties agree to exempt from matrimonial property regimes.  This does not apply if there are children of the marriage, but even then, the amount of support is determined by a schedule.  If a man has significant wealth, the court may set higher amounts to recognize the lifestyle the children had before divorce, but that does not affect a prenuptial agreement.