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Author Topic: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?  (Read 34551 times)

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Offline Boethius

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #175 on: May 07, 2019, 08:43:03 AM »
no BO, it's not setup as farmland, it means they cleared a patch a land...
there are gazillions of these for sale all around kyiv, older ones are off the Borispol airport highway
they're small cabins with gardens...
they aren't bachelor pads, they aren't for families...
they're for camping in during holidays and gardening in spring and summer
I did spend a quiet romantic weekend with my wife in one that had a fireplace
we ended doing an insane thing however
after a heavy snow and ice downpour
we went sledding on Hrushevskoho Street in Kyiv
it must have been a couple of hundred meters of pure downhill ice
I went to the market and bought a bunch of sleds for everyone
and we drove over to the top of Hrushevskoho Street and we sled all the way down!
unfortunately, when you hit the bottom of the hill you're doing 30+ mph
i was able able to keep my sled stable, maybe because I'm heavier
but my wife wasn't and she slid off the street straight into a large puddle!
she was completely soaked, we returned straight away to the dacha
she stripped and laid naked in front of the fire place to get warm
Ukrainian women are tough!!
yet paradoxically so damned damned good loooking!
In general ownership of anything in Ukraine or Russia is always tenuous...
this is the reason why oligarchs NEED to get their money out...
there is no honor among thieves...

The state decides what is "agricultural land".   There is no definition on size.  Two of those photos have plots of land, in villages which traditionally are in agricultural areas.  Ukrainian law states that the state can confiscate any "agricultural land", even if inherited, by any person who is not a Ukrainian citizen, within one year of that foreigner's ownership of the land.  The state can take such lands by force, with no compensation.

Don't assume that because there are "a gazillion" of such pieces of property, that they are not sold contrary to the law, which frankly, is a little light on detail. At least two of the properties in the photos were, at one time, a villager's primary residence.  Most dachas in Ukraine were, at one time, a village home.  You don't seem to realize how empty Ukrainian villages are.  Even in Soviet times, when the better half was sent to work in rural areas, in many regions, only 10% of the homes were occupied - the further from Kyiv, the emptier the village.  Closer to Kyiv, 1/3 to 1/5 of village homes were empty.  He could just choose a home to use when he was there.

The difference between a dacha and a village home is, if you live in Kyiv and use a home for the summer, it's a dacha.  If you attempt to live there permanently, it's a village home.  In Russia, the law has been changed to provide that one can live year round in a dacha, not so in Ukraine.

A significant number of Central Asians (from FSU republics, mostly Azeri and Uzbeki) have moved to empty Ukrainian villages.  They are plowing fallow lands.  There have been some conflicts, as culturally, they tend to want to "take over" things, often with violence.  But, the police come in, and tell them to cut it out, or they'll be deported.  That has worked, so far.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 09:00:05 AM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #176 on: May 07, 2019, 09:02:53 AM »
The state decides what is "agricultural land".   There is no definition on size.  Two of those photos have plots of land, in villages which traditionally, are in agricultural areas.  Ukrainian law states that the state can confiscate any "agricultural land", even if inherited, by any person who is not a Ukrainian citizen, within one year of that foreigner's ownership of the land.  The state can take such lands by force, with no compensation.

Don't assume that because there are "a gazillion" of such pieces of property, that they are not  sold  contrary to the law. At least two of the properties in the photos were, at one time, a villager's primary residence.  Most dachas in Ukraine were, at one time, a village home.  You don't seem to realize how empty Ukrainian villages are.  Even in Soviet times, when the better half was sent to work in rural areas, in many regions, only 10% of the homes were occupied - the further from Kyiv, the emptier the village.  Closer to Kyiv, 1/3 to 1/5 of village homes were empty.  He could just choose a home to use when he was there.

The difference between a dacha and a village home is, if you live in Kyiv and use a home for the summer, it's a dacha.  If you attempt to live there permanently, it's a village home.  In Russia, the law has been changed to provide that one can live year round in a dacha, not so in Ukraine.

A significant number of Asians (from FSU republics, mostly Azeri and Uzbeki) have moved to empty Ukrainian villages.  They are plowing fallow lands.  There have been some conflicts, as culturally, they tend to want to "take over" things, often with violence.  But, the police come in, and tell them to cut it out, or they'll be deported.  That has worked, so far.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

How would anyone know or be bothered if you did live there year round?

To be honest I would only want to live there during the summer, possibly infrequently a stunt in the winter if scenic to see what it's like, probably not all year around anyway.

Has the Ukrainian government bothered to confiscate any of foreigners of recent? I doubt it would be worth their while if the place are half empty or more anyway, plus it could scare if foreign investment.

Think they could still be handy, when bought, no rent to pay, food could be grown and a wood from surrounding areas to warm the place if needs be. To my mind means I could live in one with £500 a month income whilst looking for a girl perhaps.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #177 on: May 07, 2019, 09:07:48 AM »
Trench, those are "dachas" not domas
YOU can live in a dacha by yourself if you want to
but don't expect to have a family live inside there

OTOH, I've built a large house by myself in Ukraine for less than $30,000

I heard foreigners could not build new builds out there, only buy existing property to do up.

I could buy one and extend a little as one of the ads suggests. Think it states there is a first school nearby so much be some people living in them.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Online krimster2

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #178 on: May 07, 2019, 09:10:11 AM »
no you can build, no law against it

Offline Boethius

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #179 on: May 07, 2019, 09:17:00 AM »
I am certain that in a village inhabited predominantly by Babas, no one will know who lives there.  :rolleyes:

Some bureaucrat causes confiscation of the land, it’s resold, and that bureaucrat takes a cut of the proceeds. This happens in Kyiv all the time. I recall some time ago, an Italian soccer player was embroiled in litigation when his apartment was resold. He returned to find someone living in it.

But go ahead, buy land and live an idyllic village life surrounded by senior citizens.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #180 on: May 07, 2019, 09:38:03 AM »
I am certain that in a village inhabited predominantly by Babas, no one will know who lives there.  :rolleyes:

Some bureaucrat causes confiscation of the land, it’s resold, and that bureaucrat takes a cut of the proceeds. This happens in Kyiv all the time. I recall some time ago, an Italian soccer player was embroiled in litigation when his apartment was resold. He returned to find someone living in it.

But go ahead, buy land and live an idyllic village life surrounded by senior citizens.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

What if it's down in a joint name such as a foreigner and his Ukrainian girlfriend?
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #181 on: May 07, 2019, 09:49:46 AM »
no you can build, no law against it

How come you never got any of your property confiscated, I assume, Krim?
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Boethius

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #182 on: May 07, 2019, 10:25:07 AM »
What if it's down in a joint name such as a foreigner and his Ukrainian girlfriend?


It doesn't matter.  Foreigners cannot be on title to agricultural lands.  The same law exists where I live, foreigners cannot own agricultural land.  Of course here, it wouldn't be confiscated, just forcibly sold.


You really are obtuse.  Krimster did not purchase agricultural land.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #183 on: May 07, 2019, 10:47:02 AM »

It doesn't matter.  Foreigners cannot be on title to agricultural lands.  The same law exists where I live, foreigners cannot own agricultural land.  Of course here, it wouldn't be confiscated, just forcibly sold.


You really are obtuse.  Krimster did not purchase agricultural land.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Obtuse, who's being obtuse now?

No Krimster didn't but neither did that Italian guy that owned an apartment.

The website is in English so is aimed at foreigners, why would they offer it if foreigners could not buy. Krimster disagreed that it was agricultural land, perhaps he is right, not so much farm land but holiday retreats - dachas, village buildings, etc that do not qualify as agricultural land because of the small amount of land to grow stuff with them, more like a garden then anything else perhaps?
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Boethius

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #184 on: May 07, 2019, 10:53:28 AM »
No, at least two of those properties have a "plot" of land, similar to what a Ukrainian would cultivate.  It is agricultural land.  My husband has a classmate whose Danish husband wanted to be on title to a very similar piece of property.  He didn't believe her when she told him he couldn't own it, until he sought separate official advice.  He did buy the property, but in her name.


The properties may be listed for foreigners, but it is by Ukrainians.  I can tell by the syntax.  Most of them care not a whit if they sell land illegally, as it has zero effect on them.  But, go ahead, invest in something that can be taken away from you with no compensation.  You'll at least be enriching some Ukrainian.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #185 on: May 07, 2019, 11:04:56 AM »
No, at least two of those properties have a "plot" of land, similar to what a Ukrainian would cultivate.  It is agricultural land.  My husband has a classmate whose Danish husband wanted to be on title to a very similar piece of property.  He didn't believe her when she told him he couldn't own it, until he sought separate official advice.  He did buy the property, but in her name.


The properties may be listed for foreigners, but it is by Ukrainians.  I can tell by the syntax.  Most of them care not a whit if they sell land illegally, as it has zero effect on them.  But, go ahead, invest in something that can be taken away from you with no compensation.  You'll at least be enriching some Ukrainian.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Surely there are some sort of certificate of ownership that are exchanged to clear such matters up? I would have thought a Ukrainian solicitor would be on top of such matters if instructing them?
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline lyndontom

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #186 on: May 07, 2019, 11:13:15 AM »
Why you continue to romanticise/theorise about things like owning Dacha's - other than the fact that the dirt cheap price appeals to you - before you've even got near finding a partner beggars belief...and still you fail to comprehend or listen to advice given to you by people who actually KNOW what they are talking about.

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #187 on: May 07, 2019, 11:23:48 AM »
Ok, what about this one?

http://www.uaproperty.com/ua-offers/c1579r/kiev/property-for-sale-in-kiev-with-large-garden/

A proper house so non agricultural by the looks of it, I would assume.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Online krimster2

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #188 on: May 07, 2019, 11:44:01 AM »
"How come you never got any of your property confiscated, I assume, Krim?"

because I sold almost all of it, and what I didn't sell I gave to my sister in law
I no longer own property in either Russia or Ukraine...
wouldn't recommend anyone doing this right now...


Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #189 on: May 07, 2019, 11:54:58 AM »
"How come you never got any of your property confiscated, I assume, Krim?"

because I sold almost all of it, and what I didn't sell I gave to my sister in law
I no longer own property in either Russia or Ukraine...
wouldn't recommend anyone doing this right now...

I kind of got the impression over the years there's always been corruption, or do you mean that Russia might invade?
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Grumpy

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #190 on: May 07, 2019, 12:14:22 PM »
Here is a couple of videos from the many available.
Sergy does a fine job explaining the "modern" plumbing!



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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #191 on: May 07, 2019, 12:31:47 PM »
Here is a couple of videos from the many available.
Sergy does a fine job explaining the "modern" plumbing!





Interesting, the first one is more like a glorified shed, the second more towards the links I gave, a more proper looking building.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Patagonie

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #192 on: May 07, 2019, 12:38:29 PM »
"How come you never got any of your property confiscated, I assume, Krim?"

because I sold almost all of it, and what I didn't sell I gave to my sister in law
I no longer own property in either Russia or Ukraine...
wouldn't recommend anyone doing this right now...
Why you wouldn't recommend anyone buying a property?
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Offline Patagonie

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #193 on: May 07, 2019, 12:50:08 PM »
There has been a lot of posts about how much it would cost if you lived there, etc.

Here's my experience from the last month and a half:

City:  Kharkiv

Rent:  $1000/month.  This is for a last-minute short term arrangement for a nice 1 bedroom (2 room) apartment less than 1 km from the center.  (Nauky Ave, 8, next to the Medical University).  With advanced notice and longer term, there are about 5 or 6 similar apartments nearby at $450-600/month. 

Food, dining out:  $20-60 for two, depending on how many courses and drinks.  Drinks are definitely cheaper than at restaurants in the States.

Food, groceries:  $50 to $215 per week, for two.   Wide range due to the holidays.  Cheapest beer (that I liked) was at Metro, 19 UAH ($0.68) for 1 liter.  Stella is a little less than $1 per 0.33 liter, other EU beers about $1- $2 per 0.33 liter.  Most expensive seems to be Guiness.  Bread is less than $1 per loaf, milk about $1 per liter (for fresh, cheaper for long shelf life milk), wine and alcohol about $4 for cheap Ukrainian wine to over $300 for Johnie Walker Blue (0.75 liter).  Made prime rib roast for New Year, 435 UAH for 3.4 kg, 6 bone roast.  Vegetables are about 1/2 the cost of the cheapest US grocery stores - tomatoes were 64 UAH per kilo (was told that is expensive, due to winter).  Water is 12.5 UAH for 1.5 liters of Morshinska, cheaper when getting the 6 liter bottles.  There is a purified water filling machine outside this building, at 1.12 UAH per liter.  Have not shopped in markets, only at Rost, Klass, Silpo and Metro.

Transportation:  Metro is 5 UAH.  Uber is 112 to 395 UAH (had to go to the city limits to the East once, at morning rush hour, to take nephews to soccer - car was snowed in.  Return trip was only 195 UAH for the same distance).  Petrol is 29 UAH/liter for 95, with a 2 UAH drop in the past two weeks.

Coffee:  Wifey-to-be always stops at WOG when we are out, for XXL size cafe late, at 33 UAH (cheapest - was as high as 38 near Kramatorsk).  She also buys the instant Jacobs coffee tube packets for about 3.5 UAH each to make at home.

Mobile:  115 UAH for 4 weeks of 4G unlimited data plan on Vodaphone.


My monthly expense without rent is over $1000.  Subtracting nice dinners out, then it's about $800.


Wifey-to-be owns and runs a retail store, and makes about 50,000 UAH per month on average.  Her income is above average here, but her friends who have normal jobs still earn about 25,000 UAH per month (in Kharkiv). 


At the current exchange rate, 500 GPB is 17,000 UAH.  Average to below average monthly income for here.  If the goal is to just live here, then yes, it is doable.  If the goal is to move here and be a player...no, not even close.
Sorrry to tell you that 25000 UAH is not paid for a normal job, even in Kharkov.
The normal wage in Ukraine for non Kiev citizen is between 100 and 500$. 500$ is already considered as a good paycheck (not in the capital).

You should also take care of the fact that a lot of ukrainian people will not tell you their real income or will give false datas, because they are very proud.
Remember : the Ukrane's GDP ranking is very low. And between 2009 and 2019 the UAH has dropped of nearly 300%. A lot of people are litteraly surviving and struggling. Many cannot pay the gas now, and last time i was in Dnipro in november the city hall hadn't allowed the heater to be swicth on. The girl with whom i was, working for the council of a 30000 people city told me that they had many people who couldn't afford their gaz bills.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 01:06:00 PM by Patagonie »
"Je glissais through the paper wall, an angel in the hand, s taboy. I lay on the floor, surgi des chants de Maldoror, je mix l'intégrale de mes nuits de crystal, i belong to the festival.

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #194 on: May 07, 2019, 12:51:47 PM »
This site states there is no difference in foreigner and non foreigner buying property in Ukraine, only that foreigners are not allowed to buy land.

http://uarealtygroup.com/propery-purchase

I think that is what I heard before and thought it meant new build land. I assume then it means agricultural land. Whether these dacha/village buildings count, who knows I guess.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Grumpy

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #195 on: May 07, 2019, 01:02:24 PM »
From Trench's fist link:
The cottage measures approximately 40m2 and due to the large size of the land, there is ample opportunity to extend the size of the property to include further rooms if needed. Inside the cottage would benefit from being brought up to Western standards including installation of an internal bathroom and updated kitchen.

Gas and electricity is connected to the property and water is provided via a well in the garden. This has the added benefit of meaning there are no water bills!

From Trench's second link:
The cottage has electricity and water is from a well. It offers a basic kitchen, two bedrooms and living space. Of course, at this minuscule price don’t expect modern facilities! But it’s clean and serviceable and has original features like the “stove bed”, where people sleep on a shelf over a fire to be warm in midwinter.

Two bedrooms and a path!

I suggest on your next trip to Kiev, you might visit these properties. Please take lots of pictures and post them for us. I am sure many of us are curious to see what they look like when not photoed from their best view. 
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 01:27:06 PM by Grumpy »
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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #196 on: May 07, 2019, 01:09:39 PM »
Sorrry tot ell you that 25000 UAH is not paid for a normal job, even in Kharkov.
The normal wage in Ukraine for non Kiev citizen is between 100 and 500$. 500$ is already considered as a good paycheck (not in the capital).

You should also take care of the fact that a lot of ukrainian people will not tell you their real income or will give false datas, because they are very proud.
However the Ukrane's GDP ranking is very low. And between 2009 and 2019 the UAH has dropped of nearly 300%. A lot of people are litteraly surviving and struggling. Many cannot pay the gas now, and last time i was in Dnipro in november the city hall hadn't allowed the heater to be swicth on.

Thanks for sharing Pat, that's similar to what I had heard and I think Krimster also. I know some guy here a few months back who took a girl to Paris, well she was telling him how they try to save spending 500 UAH over winter spend on the heating and just grin and bear it. 500 UAG is of course around £15 in our money so not a great deal for us westerners. I don't think they would be giving heating a miss out there if they were getting as good an income as Steve thinks.

Some on the low end of income in the UK moan about making ends meet, but even they are better off than many Ukrainians I figure. If you get that here then in Ukraine I wager it's far worse as like you say it's GDP etc is not good.

Come my visit there shortly I will likely be viewed like a superstar ;D
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline BdHvA

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #197 on: May 07, 2019, 02:03:07 PM »
TrenchCoat as is standard for your posts you are wrong and either naive or willfully ignorant

If the land is classified as agriculture you may not only own it as a foreigner. Further you will be surprised at how biased and superstitious your possible neighbors will be. Forget the cute farm girl it is a fantasy from those who suffer from Autistic spectrum challenges. The people who live in the villages will have you for breakfast. They are clever and very tight knit.

I can write this with authority, my wife is a realator in Kiev who owns a decent Dacha in a village about an hour away from Downtown. My son has mild Aspergers and my brothers son has severe autism, though this did not prevent him from delivering a random sperm shot to a like type person resulting in a kid they can not raise.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 02:08:19 PM by BdHvA »
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #198 on: May 07, 2019, 02:33:30 PM »
TrenchCoat as is standard for your posts you are wrong and either naive or willfully ignorant

If the land is classified as agriculture you may not only own it as a foreigner. Further you will be surprised at how biased and superstitious your possible neighbors will be. Forget the cute farm girl it is a fantasy from those who suffer from Autistic spectrum challenges. The people who live in the villages will have you for breakfast. They are clever and very tight knit.

I can write this with authority, my wife is a realator in Kiev who owns a decent Dacha in a village about an hour away from Downtown. My son has mild Aspergers and my brothers son has severe autism, though this did not prevent him from delivering a random sperm shot to a like type person resulting in a kid they can not raise.


I've met Asperger's/Autism type of people, some have good personalities and often wouldn't really know they had it without getting to know them real well. Yeah it's kind of strange though how those with that stuff still manage some form of relationship if only for a while and even like you show knock out kids. Tend to find those with mental conditions tend to hang out with others with similar. How they manage to find each other who knows.

In the UK land with a building on it other than a barn isn't classed as agricultural land, so a farm house would not be classed as agricultural land, generally only land that can be grown stuff in is classed as agricultural land.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

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Re: Anyone else here thinking of/dreaming of living in the FSU?
« Reply #199 on: May 07, 2019, 02:46:01 PM »
In the UK land with a building on it other than a barn isn't classed as agricultural land, so a farm house would not be classed as agricultural land, generally only land that can be grown stuff in is classed as agricultural land.

Why would you apply the U.K. legal system and laws to Ukraine?

Either you are very arrogant or very stupid.
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

 

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