The Propaganda War

[Ranetka]

Invited??? Hmmm

Thank you,, I have been already provided with ORIGINAL info by Miss A and I explained my thought about it. I am not interested in articles with second hand OPINIONS.

[Muzh]

Thank you,, I have been already provided with ORIGINAL info by Miss A and I explained my thought about it. I am not interested in articles with second hand OPINIONS.

Interesting response.
 
I guess Yulia is correct.
 

That is the most disturbing part for me — that the Russian people strongly support what is happening, that a majority of Russians actually believe that Western-financed fascists have taken power in Kiev and that the people of eastern Ukraine have been pushed into the desperate act of arming themselves against bands of fascist nationalists intent upon their destruction. And most amazing of all is that even the people of southeast Ukraine believe it, even though there is no evidence of a threat to their safety.
 

Ayatollah Putin

[Ranetka]

You may think I am ignorant, that,s fine. But why do you think you are better informed then people in the South East Ukraine?

[Ranetka]

I am sorry but now we getting to totally absurd level. Keep coming up with childish excuses if it makes you feel better.

My brother is in one of the troops there.

I am sorry to hear that.

[steveboy]

I bet u understand zero Russian to judge about we are lying or not. And I understand enouth English to see an opposite thing.
Inhale, exhale and relax. Nobody pretends on Alaska.  As for me I want to censorship news in Russia for using word Ukraina.  Tired  to hear about the next maidan, let them go where they want without Russian gas and money.

I think Unless you LIVE in Ukraine or Russia really no body here has a clue about what is really going on. Being married to a Ukrainian women making a few trips to Ukraine in your life , listening to hearsay and sitting at home in the US as an arm chair critic and watching Tv cackling on about stuff you don't even know about is about as good as it gets on the subject of Propaganda.
I have never heard so much ***** from people living thousands of miles away from a country they know little about

[Chelseaboy]

I'd say the vast majority of people living in Russia don't have a clue what is really going on in Ukraine.

[steveboy]

I'd say the vast majority of people living in Russia don't have a clue what is really going on in Ukraine.

Thats funny!! I think you will find a few million Russians living in Ukraine And a fair few, well millions in Ukraine speak Russian as their first language Donkey!!

[missAmeno]

Steveboy, and by any chance you know why so many Ukrainians speak Russian as their first language?

[Daveman]

I think Unless you LIVE in Ukraine or Russia really no body here has a clue about what is really going on. Being married to a Ukrainian women making a few trips to Ukraine in your life , listening to hearsay and sitting at home in the US as an arm chair critic and watching Tv cackling on about stuff you don't even know about is about as good as it gets on the subject of Propaganda.
I have never heard so much ***** from people living thousands of miles away from a country they know little about

Probably, even those who live there don't have a complete clue either as the propaganda, rumor mills, and disinformation machines roll.

The ones with the most clues, aside from the instigators, would be the ones actively participating.

[steveboy]

Steveboy, and by any chance you know why so many Ukrainians speak Russian as their first language?

It was forced upon them??

[steveboy]

Probably, even those who live there don't have a complete clue either as the propaganda, rumor mills, and disinformation machines roll.

The ones with the most clues, aside from the instigators, would be the ones actively participating.

I am actually actively participating:)) Give me a short time and I will post my pictures here

[BillyB]

I think Unless you LIVE in Ukraine or Russia really no body here has a clue about what is really going on.

Do you have a clue Steveboy? Tell us what's on your mind. The only person who knows what's going to happen is Putin. He alone is going to decide to back off or continue to proceed on keeping Ukraine within his influence.


There's a dispute here on whether or not Russia was invited in Ukraine. If you are for the pro West government, Russia was not invited. If you believe Yanukovych is still president as Putin claims, then Russia was invited into Ukraine.

[Chelseaboy]

Can't wait for the resident forum expert  on all things Russian..steveboy..to enlighten us all as to how Putin thinks   

With all his mouth the local Brit exile must be privy to Putins and Ukraine's various leadership inner sanctums.

Hey steveboy,maybe you can start by giving us proof about how those poor ethnic Russian seperatists who use Russian as their first language in Ukraine have been so persecuted by Ukrainian authorities and Ukrainian people that they felt the need to commit violence and invite Russia into invading the country .

[alex330]

Heh. seems to me he is peddling his business.
 
Using his logic, Israel should invade NYC because there is a huge jewish diaspora who supports Israel's expansionism and bellicosity in the middle east.

I thought many of his other points made sense for Putin (including personal gain) and Russia's security.

Maybe we should have another REAL war.
 
Whadda ya say Alex? Up for it? Got any kids that can have their heads blown off?

There will always be wars and nobody will ever be able to change that. And some wars are more justified than others. My brothers three tours in Iraq for oil was certainly not justified. Unfortunately for Ukraine this may need to be one of those times. As many have previously said, this is not Americas war. Should a war occur it will fall on my father in law and my wife's girlfriends husbands who have all been served draft notices or signed up voluntarily. Even babushka keeps asking us to give her an AK47 so she can shoot the invaders, yet she cannot walk out the front door.... But this is for them to decide if it is something they want and we should support them as best we can.

My family has been cannon fodder for hundreds of years, and before that catapult targets. Should there be a great war or a war that is justified it will fall upon myself and my brothers to bear that burden. And I will be thankful it was us and not our children who were called on.

[Maxx2]

I'm worried about what's going on in south Nevada with the Bundys and the Federal government about to crush them. http://www.infowars.com/judge-napolitano-fearful-of-whats-coming-next-in-bundy-dispute/

[GregfromGa]

I'm worried about what's going on in south Nevada with the Bundys and the Federal government about to crush them. http://www.infowars.com/judge-napolitano-fearful-of-whats-coming-next-in-bundy-dispute/

You mean the rancher that has freeloaded with his cattle for the last 20 years?  99% of the ranchers pay their grazing fee but not this snapperhead.He doesn't even recognize our federal government. The guy is  as crazy as a loon.

[Faux Pas]

Thanks for comparing us to China, that explain pretty good how some (many?) Americans see situation in Russia... 
Judging current situation with internet by your experience 8 years ago ... a little bit unwise, hm. Let's do it simple, what I can not find and see here, using my internet now? Can you tell me, if you have such information, of course?[/b]

Not only China but, Iran and North Korea, too.  I asked you a well reasoned and honest question. If you chose to take offense at it, that is your problem, not mine. Please do not confuse me with your run of the mill poster at RWD. I've called you no names, I've called no RWD women posters here names, regardless of their political views or "team" they may be siding. I have no team. I have a Russian wife. That does not put me on a "team". My political views are mine. I tend to see things/events in terms of right and wrong by my own views and moral compass.
 

It was not like Arab Spring, probably that's how you could see it from the West through the prism of Western media (similar to many Russians who were watching Russian TV which were pretending that there are no any protests at all) and through the prism of your friends in Russia if they support our opposition, those days anyone who were following "Echo of Moscow", for example, could feel the same, I personaly was very proud of those protests, but at the same time I completely realize that majority of Russians didn't support them, mostly because people just don't care.

To me, it was very much like the Arab spring uprisings. Maybe that is just how I viewed it, maybe not. Russians were tired of the political system and the yolk of Putin. I saw it then and still do now as protest of Putin. You can declare that all I see is through a prism and to many degrees you are correct. Not so much in others. I'm not stupid and I am able to see and discern things for myself. My friends are all intellectual educated people and they have formulated their own views, from their own lives and not just spouting off something to appease or impress me. They don't have to. I do agree with you in that as a majority, most just do not care.

As for "the second coming of Christ", you are very wrong about it. That fact we are not shouting "Putin is evil" in every corner doesn't mean we see him as a god. Don't run to extremes, please. There are people in Russia who see him as a god, I have no doubt, but I see none of them on RWD.

Putin had a 47% approval rating after his last election. Now he has a 70% approval rating. I believe that is from independent sources. This is since the protests. This despite a crumbling infrastructure, a dying ruble and gas prices that have never been higher. That should give every Russian something to think about. Especially, in light of his aggression into Ukraine. I only directed my question to you because you seemed the most reasoned of the RW posting on the subject. Several of these others are worked up into a froth and equate disagreement with Russia hating. Not so much the case with you.

Many guys here are entrapped themselves with thought "Putin is aggressor and dictator", it makes them blind and not able to see any positive outcomes. Open your mind a little and try to see whole picture, make an attempt to understand other POV, POV of Russian people who live in Russia and who would not tell you what you want to hear, because they want you to think good about them. Forget for a minute that you are American and put yourself in Russian shoes. It's almost impossible, most guys here are too busy trying "to wake up Russians" and don't bother themselves with any doubts, but if you are a smart person, you can try, at least. I don't ask you to change your mind and accept ours (mine), I only want you to understand and stop calling us names just because we don't support your opinion.

There are no positives outcomes in Putin's aggression if your are Ukrainian. I make a living out of understanding others POV on a daily basis. I'm not trying to wake up or convert a single Russian or anyone else. I, out of my personal curiosity, just wish to understand the mindset that can support the actions of Putin. As I said, I am married to a Russian. My shoes have a little Russian soul to them everyday. I formulate my own opinion based on my discovery of truths and logic processes. I do not look for others approval on my opinions or anything else. Annexation/invasion tomata/tomato. One verifiable fact remains. Russian troops occupy Crimea.

I'm scared. You and everybody on this planet should be scared as well. Putin is inept as a leader. Obama is inept as a leader and both are sitting next to a button that could easily lead to nuclear destruction of the planet. This based on the whims of egomaniacs. Yours is no better than mine and neither has our well being in mind. You know?

[Anotherkiwi]

You can not invade when you have been invited;

By whom?  I didn't see the government of Ukraine issuing any invitation to the Russians.  Crimea was already an autonomous region, enjoying far more independence from central government than any other part of the country.  If Crimea was an incredibly oppressed region, gaining nothing from being part of Ukraine, I could perhaps understand a majority of the people wishing to have a better standard of living by becoming part of another country.  Everybody here knows that nothing could be further from the truth - Crimea has been the first choice holiday destination for the majority of Ukrainians, as well as many other Europeans (and even North Americans), with a standard of living for many people that would be the envy of a lot of those in "mainland" Ukraine.
 
Justme100 made the point in one of her posts that her salary as a public servant has now doubled (or trebled?  I can't remember the exact details) to match what Russians in Russia receive.  She also acknowledged that many people will lose their jobs and struggle to survive while Crimea adjusts to being part of Russia.  Now what will happen?   All the tourism dries up, and many people whose sole income is from that source will starve.  It will take years for Crimea to recover from what has happened in just a few short weeks.
 

Russia does not recognize the government sitting in Kiev now.

This is something that I'm still struggling to understand.  Even in Ukraine (just like the USA and many other republics), the President is NOT part of Parliament (or Congress, or whatever it might be called).  It is exactly the same government, with the same members of the Rada, that was elected in 2012!  Sure, the leadership has changed, but so has my government's at various times.  That doesn't change the fact that it's still the same people in power.
 
You don't vote for a leader of a Parliamentary party to become the government - you vote for the party itself, whether through an MMP system (New Zealand and Ukraine), some other method of proportional representation (most of Europe), or straight constituency elections (United Kingdom and many others).

[die_cast]

Not only China but, Iran and North Korea, too.  I asked you a well reasoned and honest question. If you chose to take offense at it, that is your problem, not mine.

Oh, you didn't understand my comment.  I thanked you for making it clear how you see Russia. There was no offense, there was your idea, your image of Russia from what you make up your other ideas about life in Russia, your comment told me what kind of person you are, how it could offend me? It's just what you choose to believe in. You believe that Russia is the same as China, N.Korea and Iran, I am sure it's not. The rest of discussion has no sense, because our views are based on completely different ideas. It's like if atheist would argue with strong believer... 

[die_cast]

I'm scared. You and everybody on this planet should be scared as well. Putin is inept as a leader. Obama is inept as a leader and both are sitting next to a button that could easily lead to nuclear destruction of the planet.

I have no idea why are you are or others are scared. I tend to think that people are rational creations. Both Obama and Putin are not insane, we could not like them, but let's don't go into hysteric. EU is full of rational people, who are thinking about money all the day every day. Nuclear destructuion is not going to bring any money to anyone.

[die_cast]

By whom?  I didn't see the government of Ukraine issuing any invitation to the Russians. ...

bla-bla-bla... How long we are going to beat the air? What done is done. Crimea is a part of RF now, do you like, don't you like it, do you agree, don't you agree... you can't change it, so what's the point of this ""?

Now what will happen?   All the tourism dries up, and many people whose sole income is from that source will starve.  It will take years for Crimea to recover from what has happened in just a few short weeks.

Making forecasts is like playing lottery, the only diffenrence, with lottery you have a chance to win.  Summer is coming... let's wait a little bit and see what will happen. If you are so excited, you can stake on.

[missAmeno]

bla-bla-bla... How long we are going to beat the air? What done is done. Crimea is a part of RF now, do you like, don't you like it, do you agree, don't you agree... you can't change it, so what's the point of this ""?

No, its not. Legally Crimea is still part of Ukraine. Part of Ukraine that is occupied by Russia.

Get your terminology right.

[Faux Pas]

Oh, you didn't understand my comment.  I thanked you for making it clear how you see Russia. There was no offense, there was your idea, your image of Russia from what you make up your other ideas about life in Russia, your comment told me what kind of person you are, how it could offend me? It's just what you choose to believe in. You believe that Russia is the same as China, N.Korea and Iran, I am sure it's not. The rest of discussion has no sense, because our views are based on completely different ideas. It's like if atheist would argue with strong believer... 

I very well understood your statement die cast and my statement doesn't reflect at all how I see Russia. Oh no, I see Russia as it is. I've been to Russia many times. The first time was 8 years ago. The comparison of your government to China and others is real whether you wish to acknowledge it or not. Stings don't it?  As long as your government can keep it's constituency in the dark, the corruption and theft is easier and broader. My comparison was only the Russian government to the others. Please don't assume anything on my behalf 

[sleepycat]

You believe that Russia is the same as China, N.Korea and Iran, I am sure it's not.

I agree with die_cast on this one. Russia and China don't even belong in the same sentence. One country is going places and will soon become the largest economy in the world, while the other country is going backwards and has a shrinking population. Guess which description is applicable to Russia and which one is applicable to China.

[Faux Pas]

I agree with die_cast on this one. Russia and China don't even belong in the same sentence. One country is going places and will soon become the largest economy in the world, while the other country is going backwards and has a shrinking population. Guess which description is applicable to Russia and which one is applicable to China.

Sure they do when the discussion is corrupt totalitarian regimes