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Author Topic: The Russian/Syrian connection thread  (Read 253502 times)

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Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #625 on: November 30, 2015, 04:14:20 PM »
You have a twisted  definition of "hero."
YOU have dishonestly twisted the quote of mine so let me help you out and not leave it as a fragment.




  Many others see it differently, and Assad is seen as heroically doing what he has been forced to do...in part once again by US interference and fomenting. 
There is the actual quote in it's context. Assad is not my hero as I'm not Syrian, but around the parts in which I reside there are quite a few Syrians, and they generally do support Assad and find this battle a heroic one on his part. 

Syrian Christians in SoCal do not want a US attack against Syria

Among the Syrian Americans in Southern California, many Christians are against a U.S. attack against Syria. They fear American military action could lead to a victory by Islamist rebels, and they believe that could spell doom for the country’s Christians.

At Sunday Mass at St. Ephraim Cathedral in Burbank, families packed the pews as usual. But on this Sunday, the congregants in this Syrian Orthodox Christian church — mostly immigrants with roots in Syria — are palpably worried.

Karen has family in the Syrian city of Homs. She doesn’t want her last name used for their protection. She says she has “mixed emotions” about possible U.S. intervention.

"As bad as everybody is saying [President Bashar] Assad is, we feel like he’s protecting the Christians," she says. "Our relatives in Syria are worried that if he goes, they don’t know what will happen to them.”.......

http://www.scpr.org/news/2013/09/02/39020/syrian-christians-in-socal-do-not-want-a-us-attack/




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Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #626 on: November 30, 2015, 04:19:56 PM »
   Thanks for proving you are a TROLL,   


 
This is a signed confession admitting you are a TROLL.   


Haha, back to the angry name calling! Yup, you REALLY changed...
 :ROFL:





    Anyone who sees Assad as a hero is worse than a troll. 


Rather judgmental of you, although you are quite old, you haven't walked in everybody's shoes!



The answers to all questions except the final one are widely known, yet you could not answer them.   
[/size]Just not interested in your silly 'questions'.  If you need answers, you can do some research.   
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Offline Изумруд

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #627 on: November 30, 2015, 04:20:49 PM »
Thanks for this, Изумруд.

Alright, that's three people who I consider to be knowledgeable on the subject telling me Putin probably won't suffer as a result of this incident. I'll defer to your opinion on this matter.

I've not seen/read Turkey (the country) is buying oil directly from IS (other than Russian propaganda). I'd suggest the oil that is being purchased on the black market is probably being moved more along the lines of what this article has stated...

Brass

Hi Brass, yes i should have elucidated my point better.  I doubt Turkey [ie the Turkish government] are openly buying oil from IS as to do so would be openly supporting terrorism and there is no definitive proof of this; it would also be a crazy game for a NATO country to play in the open.  On the other hand, I do believe they are indirectly buying oil on the black market [with full knowledge of where it's coming from].  Putin's hypocrisy is not lost on many of us: Assad is also buying oil from IS and the Kremlin is supporting Assad, who in turn is supported by Hezbollah.

I did vaguely remember something from 2014 after a raid on IS and found this article but I'm not sure as to the veracity of the quote:
Quote
"Documents and flash drives seized during the Sayyaf raid reportedly revealed links "so clear" and "undeniable" between Turkey and ISIS "that they could end up having profound policy implications for the relationship between us and Ankara," senior Western official familiar with the captured intelligence told the Guardian."


http://uk.businessinsider.com/links-between-turkey-and-isis-are-now-undeniable-2015-7?r=US&IR=T
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/assad-defends-presence-hezbollah-fighters-syria-150825203254106.html
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/insidestory/2015/11/buying-isil-oil-151127173736852.html


Offline BillyB

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #628 on: November 30, 2015, 08:55:33 PM »
In the case of Syria, Russia has had much stronger ties than the US, so us intervening here now is far less sensible than Russia intervention....which should be a reason for us to be very minimally involved.



There are people in Syria living in small villages in the middle of nowhere and even if they have access to tv, they are getting state run news yet they are still smart enough to know what is best for them and the best places to live. How many Syrians are escaping to Russia? Most people in Syria do not like Russia's influence over their president and don't care for their current government. Most people there do want the EU to help stop the war or give them a home.


Most Syrians want to escape to Europe. If America was next door, they'd be coming to us first. Last I checked, 1.5 million refugees made it to Europe and there is no end in sight. Europe has more of an interest in stopping the war in Syria than Russia does. The EU is planning to pay Turkey over 3 billion dollars to help stem the tide of refugees into Europe and let Turkey choose which ones get to legally immigrate. Translation, let's let Turkey do the dirty work discriminating with extreme prejudice and if they make a mistake and let terrorists in, the EU politicians can claim it's not their fault since they outsourced the work to the Turkish. The EU likes to practice non intervention yet they are paying dearly for a war that isn't theirs. They had a chance to topple Assad just as they did Ghaddafi. Too little, too late.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #629 on: November 30, 2015, 09:11:32 PM »

There are people in Syria living in small villages in the middle of nowhere and even if they have access to tv, they are getting state run news yet they are still smart enough to know what is best for them and the best places to live. How many Syrians are escaping to Russia? 


The Russian populace doesn't want Syrian refugees, nor does the leadership, and have made that clear.  Why would the refugees even attempt to go there given those circumstances?  In addition, we (The USA) and the EU are wealthier countries with more opportunities....at least that is the way it has been in the past.   I'd say those are reason enough, but that doesn't mean that Syria (The Nation) needs to bend over to Western wishes....it just means we are wealthier.   


  The EU is planning to pay Turkey over 3 billion dollars to help stem the tide of refugees into Europe and let Turkey choose which ones get to legally immigrate. Translation, let's let Turkey do the dirty work discriminating with extreme prejudice and if they make a mistake and let terrorists in, the EU politicians can claim it's not their fault since they outsourced the work to the Turkish. The EU likes to practice non intervention yet they are paying dearly for a war that isn't theirs. They had a chance to topple Assad just as they did Ghaddafi. Too little, too late.

   


Well I guess they should pay Turkey if they are trying to get them to do the dirty work. There is no European obligation to take the Syrian refugees, if they don't want to take any they can enforce it by closing their borders to refugees...and deport the ones that slip through....Just like Russia has done...


It seems to me that European nations do intervene quite often, but has been more reluctant lately.   When I think of nations that don't intervene in other nation's affairs, I think of South American nations, not Europe. 


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Offline BillyB

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #630 on: December 01, 2015, 06:00:13 PM »


Israel is concerned about the outcome of Syria that they announced they have troops in Syria. It makes sense that Israel doesn't want a Iran friendly government running Syria when this is over. Iran has a policy to wipe out the Jews. Just another thing that can start a larger conflict.


http://news.yahoo.com/israel-pm-admits-forces-operating-war-hit-syria-194312782.html
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Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #631 on: December 01, 2015, 08:25:41 PM »

Israel is concerned about the outcome of Syria that they announced they have troops in Syria. It makes sense that Israel doesn't want a Iran friendly government running Syria when this is over. Iran has a policy to wipe out the Jews. Just another thing that can start a larger conflict.


http://news.yahoo.com/israel-pm-admits-forces-operating-war-hit-syria-194312782.html


So Israel has been probably fighting WITHIN SYRIA, uninvited (A sovereign nation)  against Assad's interests, for potentially months/years...and only now do we hear about it through the mass media.....Makes me wonder what/who else is in there uninvited that we are also not hearing about.   I also wonder what made Israel come forward with this information now.


 Despite all these western backed countries fighting/supplying/providing logistical support against Assad, he is still standing.


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Offline alex330

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #632 on: December 01, 2015, 08:36:09 PM »
Israeli jets have been pounding Syria for a while now. I have seen reports in the media dating back to last year.

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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #633 on: December 02, 2015, 01:21:23 PM »
Tensions With Russia Add to a Chill in Turkey’s Economy
By KEITH BRADSHER New York Times

ESKISEHIR, Turkey — A new high-speed rail line, completed last year, now links
Eskisehir with Istanbul to the west and Ankara to the east. A narrow, serpentine
river meanders through downtown, spanned by graceful blue bridges at almost
every block, drawing tourists. Factories here make everything from cakes and
cookies to refrigerators, large Ford freight trucks and aircraft parts.

Yet despite the prosperous appearance, a chill has already settled over Eskisehir’s
economy, and Turkey’s, as exports to China and the Middle East falter. And as
Russia has halted most tourism to Turkey and threatened to stop food imports
from the country after Turkish F-16 fighter jets shot down a Russian combat jet
along the Syrian border last Tuesday, the risk of further economic trouble is clear.

With unemployment already surging here, “our economy has slowed down,” said
Yilmaz Buyukersen, the mayor of Eskisehir.

Russia is one of Turkey’s largest markets for exports, after Germany. Eskisehir
(pronounced Es-ki-SHARE) itself has a large sugar refinery, using sugar beets
from nearby fields as its raw material; the city exports about $30 million worth
of cookies, cakes, crackers and other foods to Russia, according to the local
chamber of commerce.

There is a lot more read all about it here
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/30/business/international/tensions-with-russia-add-to-a-chill-in-turkeys-economy.html
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #634 on: December 02, 2015, 01:22:37 PM »


Russia ready to coordinate steps to block Turkish-Syrian border

read all about it here
http://warsclerotic.wordpress.com/2015/11/30/russia-ready-to-coordinate-steps-to-block-turkish-syrian-border/
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 01:44:59 PM by 2tallbill »
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #635 on: December 02, 2015, 01:23:29 PM »
Turkey's Trump Card: Erdogan Can Cut Russia's Syrian Supply Line By Closing Bosphorus

read all about it here
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-29/turkeys-trump-card-erdogan-can-cut-russias-syrian-supply-line-closing-bosphorus
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #636 on: December 02, 2015, 01:24:34 PM »
I'm not sure how credible this story is. I can only imagine that Putin would do this if he
is getting reimbursed or gets some significant percent of the oil from Syria.

Putin 'sending 150,000 soldiers to Syria to WIPE OUT evil Islamic State'

read all about it here
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/609757/Putin-ISIS-Islamic-State-Syria-Raqqa-troops-soldiers-air-strike-jets-military
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 01:27:12 PM by 2tallbill »
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #637 on: December 02, 2015, 01:25:41 PM »
British MPs to vote on bombing of IS in Syria
read all about it here
http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1202/750613-syria-russia-uk/
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #638 on: December 02, 2015, 01:31:04 PM »
It's obvious that somebody is buying oil from ISIS. Obama didn't want to disrupt the
ISIS oil transfer because he was worried that the truck drivers were innocent and not
members of ISIS. If anyone can come up with a more stupid idea, please let me know.

Russia, Turkey trade accusations over who bought oil from ISIS

read all about it here
http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/europe/syria-turkey-russia-warplane-tensions/
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #639 on: December 02, 2015, 04:16:42 PM »
Russia adding 2nd airbase in Syria, pursuing 'expansion' in military campaign
By Lucas Tomlinson 

Russia has expanded its military operations in Syria to include a second airbase as well
as other posts, according to a U.S. official briefed on the latest intelligence from the region

read about it here
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/12/01/russia-adding-2nd-airbase-in-syria-pursuing-expansion-in-military-campaign.html
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Offline BillyB

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #640 on: December 02, 2015, 08:55:23 PM »
Makes me wonder what/who else is in there uninvited that we are also not hearing about.   



Is the party in Syria by invitation only? The British are now coming! They just announced their entrance into the party in Syria and will bring fireworks.


http://news.yahoo.com/uk-parliament-vote-expanded-attacks-122037536.html


I also wonder what made Israel come forward with this information now.



Too many different intelligence agencies working in Syria to keep this a secret anymore. Boots on the ground is a big step for any country to take that wants to influence future leadership in Syria.


It's becoming a question of who's not in Syria. With all the actors with different interests in Syria, somebody may get their feelings hurt and with all the alliances between nations, this war can grow into something bigger.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #641 on: December 02, 2015, 09:18:30 PM »

Is the party in Syria by invitation only? The British are now coming! They just announced their entrance into the party in Syria and will bring fireworks.


http://news.yahoo.com/uk-parliament-vote-expanded-attacks-122037536.html



hehe,  well what becomes clearer why nations may feel they need a major deterrent to prevent outside hostile countries from swooping in like hungry wolves....Nukes, chemical weapons, and bio weapons with a reliable way to deliver the weapons provide that deterrent and force the outside nations from getting too bold...  I get the feeling that at some point down the road these are going to be proliferated by Russia if they ever feel they need a last line of defense.







Too many different intelligence agencies working in Syria to keep this a secret anymore. Boots on the ground is a big step for any country to take that wants to influence future leadership in Syria.


It's becoming a question of who's not in Syria. With all the actors with different interests in Syria, somebody may get their feelings hurt and with all the alliances between nations, this war can grow into something bigger.


Nations that are uninvited by the leadership should not be meddling...but they obviously are, and I see that as a problem.  I think Assad would have put the rebellion down long ago, if not for the weapons and special forces from outside nations.  The society may have had some problems, but the society could have been managed, as it has been in the past...but now it is out of control.   


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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #642 on: December 03, 2015, 10:14:34 AM »
Hi Brass, yes i should have elucidated my point better.  I doubt Turkey [ie the Turkish government] are openly buying oil from IS as to do so would be openly supporting terrorism and there is no definitive proof of this; it would also be a crazy game for a NATO country to play in the open.  On the other hand, I do believe they are indirectly buying oil on the black market [with full knowledge of where it's coming from].  Putin's hypocrisy is not lost on many of us: Assad is also buying oil from IS and the Kremlin is supporting Assad, who in turn is supported by Hezbollah.

I did vaguely remember something from 2014 after a raid on IS and found this article but I'm not sure as to the veracity of the quote:

I am of the opinion that this will play into Putin's favour. Don't discount the fact that the Russian fighter crew may have been used as bait--10 warnings an no response. Why? Apparently they were not given authorization to respond.

If nothing happened, Putin's continued airspace violations would have gone unchecked. As an aside, it will be interesting to see if he pushes the envelope with other neighbors. However, Turkey responded, and now Putin is playing this as yet another sign that Russia is being surrounded by hostile forces, and the Russian citizen is so fortunate to have a strong leader at the helm!

I'd be interested in where you guys think the criminal dictator (Putin) is going with these remarks...

Putin: Turkey 'will regret' downing Russian bomber in Syria

..."In a state of the nation speech, broadcast live on Russian television, he said that "if anyone thinks Russia's reaction will be limited to trade sanctions, they are deeply mistaken".

"We'll remind them again what they did - they will regret it."...


http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34993629

This is a threat if there ever was a threat and two weeks after the fact he's still stomping his feet.

I think he's going to try and down a Turkish jet for pay back. If he does that's more or less a declaration of war and Turkey will respond.

Is there public pressure from the Russian population to escalate this incident or is Putin mouthing off again?

Brass
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #643 on: December 03, 2015, 12:23:55 PM »
I'd be interested in where you guys think the criminal dictator (Putin) is going with these remarks...

Is there public pressure from the Russian population to escalate this incident or is Putin mouthing off again?

Brass

Methinks the lady doth protest too much

I think that he believes this is a better news item for Russians to worry
about than the price of ________________ (enter any food stuff here).

Turkey could say "drop the sanctions now shorty or change the name of
the Black Sea to the Black Lake."




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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #644 on: December 03, 2015, 07:22:09 PM »



Apparently having the world's strongest military entitles us to enter weaker countries whenever we want, against their wishes.   This begs the question of why even call Iraq or Syria a country at all?  The elected leader has now unequivocally told us to stay out...yet here we go again showing no respect for the rule of law, or the leadership of another weaker country. 


Apparently we must feel it is too late now to reverse the damage we have done over the past several generations, so all we can do now is continue to be aggressive.



Deploying ground combat forces 'hostile act': Iraq PM




Baghdad (AFP) - Iraq considers any country sending ground combat forces into its territory a "hostile act" and has not requested such a deployment, Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi said Thursday.


The US has announced that it will deploy around 100 special forces personnel to Iraq to fight the Islamic State jihadist group here and in neighbouring Syria, while two American senators have proposed tripling the number of US troops in the country.

Iraq "will consider any country sending ground combat forces a hostile act and will deal with it on this basis," Abadi said in a statement...........

http://news.yahoo.com/deploying-ground-combat-forces-hostile-act-iraq-pm-222111703.html;_ylt=AwrXgiOu9mBW92gAmPDQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTByb2lvbXVuBGNvbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDBHNlYwNzcg--


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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #645 on: December 04, 2015, 08:06:52 AM »
Methinks the lady doth protest too much

I think that he believes this is a better news item for Russians to worry
about than the price of ________________ (enter any food stuff here).

Turkey could say "drop the sanctions now shorty or change the name of
the Black Sea to the Black Lake."


 :D

I agree. Bosphorus is the trump card and Turkey will close it to the Russians if they continue to escalate.

Apparently Russian shipping is already experiencing 'delays'. I'm not sure if that's accurate or the Russians just stirring more crap though.

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #646 on: December 04, 2015, 09:01:09 AM »
Closing access to the Black Sea would be a huge pill to swallow for the Russians.  My guess is that it would eventually lead to armed conflict.   My guess is that Turkey would not have the support of NATO if they did so.  So, maybe this is what Putin wants.  A conflict that segregates a NATO country.
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Offline Brasscasing

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #647 on: December 04, 2015, 10:20:50 AM »
Closing access to the Black Sea would be a huge pill to swallow for the Russians.  My guess is that it would eventually lead to armed conflict.   My guess is that Turkey would not have the support of NATO if they did so.  So, maybe this is what Putin wants.  A conflict that segregates a NATO country.

True. I also think NATO would hesitate if the Turks unilaterally closed the straight to Russian shipping although they may be within their rights. The Russians are contending they can't unless at war.

So maybe not close it but make it so darn difficult for Russian shipping to pass that it costs them, oh lets say, about the same amount in lost shipping/cargo costs as the Russian sanctions are currently costing Turkey.  ;)

I don't think NATO would even bat an eye at that kind of action by Turkey.

Armed conflict - Bad idea for Russia. Turkey has a powerful conventional military ( I know, I've faced off against them in Cyprus). They are woefully out classed in missile defense though and with (coincidentally) both the US and Germany pulling (if they already haven't done so) their Patriot air defense batteries from Turkish soil the Turks might have a problem if the Russians started lobbing stuff at them.

As it stands NATO has already told Turkey it'll support them. I tend to believe that as Turkey has the second largest (conventional) military in NATO and to lose them as an ally would pretty well spell the end of NATO as a viable entity.

NATO allies act to strengthen Turkey's air defenses

..."NATO allies plan to send patrol aircraft and missiles to strengthen Ankara's air defenses on its border with Syria, officials said on Tuesday, following Turkey's shooting-down of a Russian bomber."...

..."So far, the United States has moved special fighter jets designed to intercept bombers and reconnaissance aircraft to the Turkish NATO air base Incirlik, while Britain has said it will also send jets to the region once NATO's decision is formalized.

Germany and Denmark are sending ships to the NATO fleet in the eastern Mediterranean. NATO could also send its surveillance planes, called Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS), that can be used to direct air fights too."...

www.reuters.com

Amid Russia War Talk, NATO Sends Warships To Black Sea Near Turkey, Ukraine

..."The North Atlantic Treaty Organization has stationed four warships in the Black Sea, the Russian news agency Sputnik reported Friday. The Black Sea sits between several countries with strained relations of late, including Russia, Turkey and Ukraine. Russian-Turkish relations have been particularly tense in recent weeks, after Turkey shot down a Russian jet in Syrian airspace in November.

 The U.S. would send a guided missile destroyer, the USS Ross, "to promote peace and stability in the region" as part of Operation Atlantic Resolve, said a press release from the U.S. Navy Sixth Fleet Wednesday. Portugal, Spain and Canada sent the missile frigates Francis Almejida, Blas de Lezo and Winnipeg, respectively, Sputnik reported.

Operation Atlantic Resolve is a "demonstration of continued U.S. commitment to the collective security of NATO and to enduring peace and stability in the region"...

http://www.ibtimes.com/amid-russia-war-talk-nato-sends-warships-black-sea-near-turkey-ukraine-2211723

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« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 10:24:01 AM by Brasscasing »
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #648 on: December 04, 2015, 11:07:38 AM »
I find Russia playing this hand with a busted flush. 

The Russian air base in Syria is in direct opposition to the Incirlik base in Turkey.  The Incirlik base is strategic to the US interests in the area.  I can't fault Russia for wanting a base in Syria.  But even if Turkey and Russia square off, the US will not walk away. 

By the way, where's Belvis?  He hasn't said a peep since his supposed resolution to the invasion of Turkish airspace by one of his country's jets and the subsequent shootdown.  I think our resident FSB troll had his feelings hurt by everyone laughing at him.  The idea that Turkey was going back down was ridiculous.  The only one listening to Putin these days is his captive audience in Russia.  But his claims that Erdogan was personally involved with ISIS, buying their oil was met with a direct challenge from the Turkish strongman.  "I'll resign if you can prove its true.  But if you can't prove its true, Putin has to resign."

My guess is that such a blatant challenge put egg on Putin's face.  It is like the Red Line in Syria drawn by Obama. 

No, Hungary is not thinking how to compromise with Russia.  Russia needs to realize that if you fly jets over someone else's territory after having been warned not to, that this is a provocation.   In Turkey's situation, it was met with due force of a country protecting their homeland.  Imagine what would be the result if Turkey flew a plane over Russia's territory after having been warned not to.

Russia is a belligerent right now.  It is testing every possible method for dismembering NATO.  What it fails to understand is that such actions only strengthen the alliance.
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #649 on: December 05, 2015, 05:13:57 PM »
Russia accuses US of cover-up over ISIS oil smuggling to Turkey



read all about it here
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-accuses-us-cover-over-oil-smuggling-turkey-204046827.html
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