Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Introductions and Ice-Breaker => Topic started by: GM_Rod on January 18, 2018, 11:56:23 AM

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 18, 2018, 11:56:23 AM
My name is Rod, nice to meet you guys.

I'm here for help with bringing my girl to the UK.

She's in Russia, and we're trying to figure out the best way to bring her here, temporarily at first, we're not engaged or anything. YET.
I went to Russia in 2015 and that's how we met.
Back then, I lived in Brazil, but I've moved to the UK last September so it's much ea$ier for us now.
Still, the UK seems to be tricky when granting visas to FSU citizens.
What's the best way to proceed?

Thanks in advance!!!
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 18, 2018, 12:03:43 PM
My name is Rod, nice to meet you guys.

I'm here for help with bringing my girl to the UK.

She's in Russia, and we're trying to figure out the best way to bring her here, temporarily at first, we're not engaged or anything. YET.
I went to Russia in 2015 and that's how we met.
Back then, I lived in Brazil, but I've moved to the UK last September so it's much ea$ier for us now.
Still, the UK seems to be tricky when granting visas to FSU citizens.
What's the best way to proceed?

Thanks in advance!!!

Welcome, Rod

1/ The first thing is to bring your g/f on a General Visa - as a Visitor - 'easy' - if she has her own property, money in the bank or you provide your bank statements for the last six months and guarantee to pay for her .

2/ If you are thinking of living here, then get her a Gen Visitors Visa FIRST, THEN look at residency - but unless you are an EU citizen - she'll need to prove she speaks good English ( tested in her home nation by a UK-approved institute) and you'll have 'fun' ( harder) if you aren't already married

http://www.gov.uk/apply-uk-visa (http://www.gov.uk/apply-uk-visa)

Ask anyway, I've worn the t-shirt
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 18, 2018, 12:15:30 PM
Thanks for the quick response!!!

Ok, Visitor visa is what I had in mind. Good.
I am an EU citizen, Portuguese more specifically. I'm settled in the UK permanently.
I moved here in September, so I'd have to wait until March to have 6 months of bank statements.
The question is, how much money do I need to have in there for this to be enough?
We're talking about her staying for at least 1-3 months on this first trip.
She doesn't have a bank account, but she does have a job.

Cheers!
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 18, 2018, 12:35:56 PM
Also, apparently Russia is in the list of countries where citizens need a Tuberculosis test before coming to the UK?
What's the best way to do this?
Because I'm thinking she can't just go to any doctor there and request this, right?
Besides the results have to be in English, obviously.
Do you guys know of specific places she can go for this? And maybe how much it costs to take the test?
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 18, 2018, 01:40:13 PM
Ok, I just answered my own question:

http://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tuberculosis-test-for-a-uk-visa-clinics-in-the-russian-federation/tuberculosis-testing-in-the-russian-federation

Gonna leave this here to help others.
She's in Moscow so there's only one place she can go, which makes things simpler. I'll find out the cost soon and update that here.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 18, 2018, 04:56:24 PM
Ok, I just answered my own question:

http://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tuberculosis-test-for-a-uk-visa-clinics-in-the-russian-federation/tuberculosis-testing-in-the-russian-federation

Gonna leave this here to help others.
She's in Moscow so there's only one place she can go, which makes things simpler. I'll find out the cost soon and update that here.

This is a new one on me ....  It won't apply for the Gen Visa ( max 6 months ) and I've a feeling that if you are going to be using the EU right of a family to live together ( permanent Residency - exercising YOUR right of Freedom of movement )  - that that TB test will NOT apply

Better get your skates on - you've only got 1yr, 2months, possibly :)

 
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: BillyB on January 18, 2018, 05:19:38 PM



Welcome to the forum Rod.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 18, 2018, 05:47:00 PM
This is a new one on me ....  It won't apply for the Gen Visa ( max 6 months ) and I've a feeling that if you are going to be using the EU right of a family to live together ( permanent Residency - exercising YOUR right of Freedom of movement )  - that that TB test will NOT apply

Better get your skates on - you've only got 1yr, 2months, possibly :)

I'm not sure I understand... the site is clear about the TB test. But, I'd be happy to not have to do that step. Cheaper and less complicated! Do you mean she doesn't need it??

1 year, 2 months... you're talking about BRExit, right? The last time I heard about it, I was told it might not even happen.
But right now, I'm only concerned with getting her here the first time around. We've met and spent a week together in Russia in 2015, but before we make the big jump, we want to see how it's like to actually be under the same roof for an extended period of time (she was still living with her mom back then so we didn't do that, and a week is not enough anyway).
After I manage to get her here, and if everything works out great, then I'll think about her staying permanent.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 18, 2018, 05:47:40 PM


Welcome to the forum Rod.

Thank you!
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 18, 2018, 05:53:49 PM
I'm not sure I understand... the site is clear about the TB test. But, I'd be happy to not have to do that step. Cheaper and less complicated! Do you mean she doesn't need it??

NO TB / Eng lang test - if you married the lass and brought her to live here  under the EU immigration route ( as opposed to the UK most must follow)


1 year, 2 months... you're talking about BRExit, right? The last time I heard about it, I was told it might not even happen.

Sadly, 'we' have informed the EU of 'our' intention to leave- just what format that will take ((




But right now, I'm only concerned with getting her here the first time around. We've met and spent a week together in Russia in 2015, but before we make the big jump, we want to see how it's like to actually be under the same roof for an extended period of time (she was still living with her mom back then so we didn't do that, and a week is not enough anyway).
After I manage to get her here, and if everything works out great, then I'll think about her staying permanent.

I see now that you have only met for a short time  - when have you met her, since?
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 18, 2018, 06:16:53 PM
NO TB / Eng lang test - if you married the lass and brought her to live here  under the EU immigration route ( as opposed to the UK most must follow)


Sadly, 'we' have informed the EU of 'our' intention to leave- just what format that will take ((




I see now that you have only met for a short time  - when have you met her, since?

Never.
Like, I went there and did everything as advised here. I went with more than one girl on the schedule, met all of them. She's the only one I liked, but we didn't have much time to spend together because she was still living with her mom as I stated, and mom was pretty strict...
After that, I stayed in Brazil and it was too expensive to get her to go there, or going to Russia a second time. We tried, but her mom took her passport... so we kinda gave up and fell out of touch.
Then last year, she emailed me with some news that she moved out and wanted to get back in touch, so we did! And luckily I had just moved to the UK (This was in September), so now it's MUCH easier, cheaper and simpler for us to try this again. And since I've been to Russia and she's never been outside there, it makes more sense for her to come here.
It also makes sense because if this works out, we're definitely not going to live in Russia, so she might as well come here and see if she likes it.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 18, 2018, 06:33:40 PM
Thanks for the quick response!!!

Ok, Visitor visa is what I had in mind. Good.
I am an EU citizen, Portuguese more specifically. I'm settled in the UK permanently.
I moved here in September, so I'd have to wait until March to have 6 months of bank statements.
The question is, how much money do I need to have in there for this to be enough?
We're talking about her staying for at least 1-3 months on this first trip.
She doesn't have a bank account, but she does have a job.

Cheers!

Hi Rob, Welcome to the Forum :welcome:

If she does not have a bank account that could just be the first issue in a long line of problems, they will generally want to see that. It also signifies that she may be a low earner, possibly black economy wage earner which is common in much of the FSU - generally if she pays no tax then as far as the Russian Government are concerned she has no job so to all intent and purposes is classed as unemployed. If you are going partly of your ability to keep her its normally reasonably hefty finances they want to see.

Another issue is that you met her last in 2015, it is now 2018 so if this is caught upon by Border control they will probably have hang ups over whether it is a proper relationship due to the length of time since you last saw her. Border control here is often quite stringent and a lot of FSW and non-Brits are often unaware of this, they can often go into everything more so if they are not convinced from the outset that this is someone who WILL return to their home country after the visit. I know a Russian woman locally who was unsure if her son & family would get a visa to visit - they did but I think mostly because they have family already here but she knew it could very well get rejected and many are.

I think it would be beneficial for you to suggest visiting her again citing the visa issues. It will also flag up if she might just be after a visa or free holiday. If she kicks up a stink about it then be wary, without doing this you will not know until it is too late. Even if she got a visa she could come here and hook up with some other guy all at your expense then he takes over from there. Just get to know her better I would say, the visa imposition is there for that very reason to question if you really know her well enough and her motives for wanting to come to the UK.   
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 18, 2018, 07:15:45 PM
Hi Rob, Welcome to the Forum :welcome:

If she does not have a bank account that could just be the first issue in a long line of problems, they will generally want to see that. It also signifies that she may be a low earner, possibly black economy wage earner which is common in much of the FSU - generally if she pays no tax then as far as the Russian Government are concerned she has no job so to all intent and purposes is classed as unemployed. If you are going partly of your ability to keep her its normally reasonably hefty finances they want to see.

Another issue is that you met her last in 2015, it is now 2018 so if this is caught upon by Border control they will probably have hang ups over whether it is a proper relationship due to the length of time since you last saw her. Border control here is often quite stringent and a lot of FSW and non-Brits are often unaware of this, they can often go into everything more so if they are not convinced from the outset that this is someone who WILL return to their home country after the visit. I know a Russian woman locally who was unsure if her son & family would get a visa to visit - they did but I think mostly because they have family already here but she knew it could very well get rejected and many are.

I think it would be beneficial for you to suggest visiting her again citing the visa issues. It will also flag up if she might just be after a visa or free holiday. If she kicks up a stink about it then be wary, without doing this you will not know until it is too late. Even if she got a visa she could come here and hook up with some other guy all at your expense then he takes over from there. Just get to know her better I would say, the visa imposition is there for that very reason to question if you really know her well enough and her motives for wanting to come to the UK.

This is all great advice.

But, for one thing, when she got back in touch with me, she didn't know I moved to the UK. So the intent to come here through me is out of the window. She actually had an apologetic tone as if she didn't know if I was going to even reply (I know, this could be a manipulation technique, but I've been tricked before. This is not that.).
She asked me if I wanted to see her in Russia again. It was my idea to instead get her to come here, mostly because it's just cheaper, and because I went to her last time and it wasn't great because of outside factors. If we're HERE, then we're free from anything getting in our way, since I live completely alone here and it'd just be the two of us. I feel like we need this.
Also I don't have to TELL anyone that we went a long time without talking.
Now, as for her job... I had told her not to get a job because if she did, she wouldn't be able to get a vacation before working for a year, which would make it impossible for her to come here...
To this, she said: I'll just work while we are in the process of getting the visa... when it's ready I can just quit and go, and this way I'll have money to pay you back at least part of the visa expenses."
Now... gotta give her some credit for that. (Obviously I also won't tell anyone she quit her job to come. For all intents and purposes she will still have a job to go back to).
She actually starts the new job next week. I haven't gone over details with her, but it might be paying enough that she'd open an account to get paid, as is common in most employment situations. We'll see.

What I want to know is, HOW MUCH on average, do I need to have in my account to make it believable that I'd be supporting her here?
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 18, 2018, 07:19:24 PM
I'm not sure I understand... the site is clear about the TB test. But, I'd be happy to not have to do that step. Cheaper and less complicated! Do you mean she doesn't need it??

1 year, 2 months... you're talking about BRExit, right? The last time I heard about it, I was told it might not even happen.
But right now, I'm only concerned with getting her here the first time around. We've met and spent a week together in Russia in 2015, but before we make the big jump, we want to see how it's like to actually be under the same roof for an extended period of time (she was still living with her mom back then so we didn't do that, and a week is not enough anyway).
After I manage to get her here, and if everything works out great, then I'll think about her staying permanent.

Wow, a little jump before the big jump, maybe you should visit her and get to know HER better???? OWW???
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 18, 2018, 07:27:39 PM
Wow, a little jump before the big jump, maybe you should visit her and get to know HER better???? OWW???

I have been to Russia. Comparing the costs involved in me going again vs. her coming here against the benefits of each option, it's just better for her to come, in every way.
- Cheaper (as in 10x cheaper. In Russia I'd have to get myself a hotel or apartment, since she doesn't live alone)
- Length of stay (if she comes here she can stay 6 months... I can't stay in Russia that long)
- We don't plan on living over there, so it makes sense that we try this HERE, where we will probably settle.

In any case, I've decided she's coming here. I appreciate the concern, thank you all for that.
But let's please move on to helping me bring her, if you guys don't mind?
A company tried to charge me £150 to just talk to an immigration lawyer... I came here instead :-)
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Davo2 on January 18, 2018, 07:45:42 PM
I went down this path recently and her visa was denied for a short two week holiday. She has a high paying job, money in the bank, owns her own apartment, she has children who were remaining in Russia during her holiday and had traveled to several other countries  previously. I also showed that I could support her transport, food and accommodation costs. The only downfall was we had never met in person.

The reason it was denied ...... she didn't provide enough evidence she would return to Russia. Obviously they had other concerns as she couldn't have had a better case to return. Quite possibly it was due to her visiting a man who was essentially a stranger.

Now we're meeting in Indonesia in a few months. If we get along, I'll visit her in Russia later in the year and then try to get a tourist visa again. Next time I'll hire a visa specialist to help with her application.

Even though you,ve met before, I would take others advice and meet her in Russia again. I think it will give extra weight to her visa application.
 
I wish you all the best  :)
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 18, 2018, 08:46:17 PM
Rod, LAman & Davo are giving good advice here I think, get to know her better. From what you have just told us I wonder if she is a little desperate, in what way I am not sure it could be economic or family/social reasons. Fair enough if she did not know you were in the UK but desperate girls will jump to the first best option where ever that may be. Possibly she might genuinely feel she made a mistake but if there was no dispute between the two of you then I would be cautious.

Also, I think though the living costs may be cheaper & make more sense her coming to the UK I think you could still have some problems with visa. It is likely to be easier for you to get a visa to Russia than the other way around, especially as you had previously got one. Getting her one could prove problematic for reasons already given. Border control here tend not to see it as a suiting the convenience of the interested parties they are more concerned than most other nations with the exception of possibly, US, AUS maybe Canada of keeping out anyone they are not not convinced will return. Even not telling them about her intention to chuck the job in I think they would have concerns over her application as they are stuck with another person in the country if she is just coming to escape her situation at home. If she shares a flat then the impression it is already giving me is that she may struggle to qualify & hence a waste of the £150 visa fee in applying for her then back to square one.

The last girl I saw lived in a shared flat she did not own, it seems it is quite common in the FSU to pass what we would call a council flat down to offspring (which they can lawfully do out there) to take advantage of the cheaper rent and they share the flat. Many workers out there do not get paid a lot, especially women if they are in a non-professional or state job such as a teacher or nurse.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 18, 2018, 11:55:33 PM
Hey GM Rod.  You met this girl for 1 week in person 2 years ago and you're certain she wants to move with you to the UK permanently?
Especially a girl from Moscow...sounds far fetched to me but what do I know.

I know Russians need a separate tourist visa to go to the UK vs a Schengen visa for the rest of Europe.

I'd say try to get a UK tourist visa for her.  If that doesn't work go for the schengen.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 19, 2018, 01:23:58 AM
I suggested to the girl I was last with to go the Schengen route which for her bring Ukrainian meant visa-free. I'm not sure if it's quite as easy for Russians. She wouldn't go for it, I think part of the problem was me pre-empting the situation with the problem I could see her in getting a UK visa. Saying to a girl about spending time somewhere together for a while where neither of you have much history is probably going to sound a bit weird. Saying to a girl who is living in a bad area in the FSU that you want to live there with her for a while no doubt too. Being there already though she can't complain ;) though that's bridge has already been missed.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 19, 2018, 01:26:35 AM
I suggested to the girl I was last with to go the Schengen route which for her bring Ukrainian meant visa-free. I'm not sure if it's quite as easy for Russians. She wouldn't go for it, I think part of the problem was me pre-empting the situation with the problem I could see her in getting a UK visa. Saying to a girl about spending time somewhere together for a while where neither of you have much history is probably going to sound a bit weird. Saying to a girl who is living in a bad area in the FSU that you want to live there with her for a while no doubt too. Being there already though she can't complain ;) though that's bridge has already been missed.

Trench speak English.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 19, 2018, 03:04:54 AM
Hey GM Rod.  You met this girl for 1 week in person 2 years ago and you're certain she wants to move with you to the UK permanently?
Especially a girl from Moscow...sounds far fetched to me but what do I know.

I know Russians need a separate tourist visa to go to the UK vs a Schengen visa for the rest of Europe.

I'd say try to get a UK tourist visa for her.  If that doesn't work go for the schengen.

There is no such thing as a 'Tourist Visa' for the UK anymore...It's a General Visa - with different categories when applying

Trench - remind us ... how many times have you successfully ( or not) applied for and brought a g/f to the UK ? 

Rod, if you are going to bring her here to the UK - you must show recent (togetherness)  and you need to meet her in Russia - a few times - get her to open a bank account and she must pay her salary in.

The ONLY way you'll get this lass in, otherwise is marrying and applying for a Family Permit Visa under EU rules.

You are very lucky to have an EU passport and live in the UK - it'll be much easier for you... but you MUST ( for legal and reasons of common sense ) prove to the authorities that you have a relationship, no matter what immigration ( UK / EU) route you take






Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 19, 2018, 06:59:18 AM
Ok now we're getting somewhere.

First, I have double citizenship. Portuguese and Brazilian.
So as a Brazilian I wouldn't need a visa to go to Russia. That's that.
As for visiting her there again, that's a nope because I don't see a reason, as I've stated before.
I won't even get into the whole "she's desperate" thing because this is not my first rodeo. I know what I'm doing. Someone said I was SURE she would wanna come here permanently? This isn't true, hence why I'm shooting for a TEMPORARY visa.
And, if she was desperate, she would have latched onto me the first time I went to Russia and tried to come to Brazil with me straight from there. Would've been easier too, since she wouldn't need a visa to go to Brazil.
That's not what happened.
And, after that, she would've tried to stay in touch and convince me to get her out. Again not the case. We went out of touch for almost 2 years.

In any case, I'm not here to defend her intentions. As much as I appreciate the sentiment and the concerns, I'm here to get help getting her here. Let's focus, please?

Her getting a bank account... if I can prove I can support her here, why is this necessary? I doubt her new job pays enough for this to be effective anyway.

Now, nobody gave me a figure as to how much I need to have in my bank to do this. A little help here?
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 19, 2018, 08:13:37 AM
Ok now we're getting somewhere.

First, I have double citizenship. Portuguese and Brazilian.
So as a Brazilian I wouldn't need a visa to go to Russia. That's that.
As for visiting her there again, that's a nope because I don't see a reason, as I've stated before.
I won't even get into the whole "she's desperate" thing because this is not my first rodeo. I know what I'm doing. Someone said I was SURE she would wanna come here permanently? This isn't true, hence why I'm shooting for a TEMPORARY visa.
And, if she was desperate, she would have latched onto me the first time I went to Russia and tried to come to Brazil with me straight from there. Would've been easier too, since she wouldn't need a visa to go to Brazil.
That's not what happened.
And, after that, she would've tried to stay in touch and convince me to get her out. Again not the case. We went out of touch for almost 2 years.

In any case, I'm not here to defend her intentions. As much as I appreciate the sentiment and the concerns, I'm here to get help getting her here. Let's focus, please?

Her getting a bank account... if I can prove I can support her here, why is this necessary? I doubt her new job pays enough for this to be effective anyway.

Now, nobody gave me a figure as to how much I need to have in my bank to do this. A little help here?

You've answered it yourself - her job does not pay enough so even if she can get a bank account it is likely to be just another piece of damning evidence for the UK border force to reject your application on. You could always put money into her bank account to boost her income if you fancy that :D So they are asking for it to a). find out if she has financial resources to support herself if necessary and b). see if she has enough financial reason to return - if she is not bringing in a lot then they will surmise she does not.

I don't think there is a hard and fast figure, generally it could be ascertained to be daily living costs of food, transport, bills, etc. For shorter trips they may have a daily figure such as £50 per day so on a longer stay it could be a fair old amount they wish to see, I would guess a good few thousand at least with you in a decently paid permanent job. This link to the you gov website on this: http://www.gov.uk/standard-visitor-visa/documents-you-must-provide

Well, it tells us that they ask you how much you think it would be, I guess seeing as you would be the one proposing the visit to UK Border Control. This demonstrates the crafty way in which they operate, they ask you how much you think it will be, you then have to show that you have this, BUT give a figure that is too low and they can pick it apart and knock you back on it, too high and if you don't have the finances to show you can support this again they can knock you back on it.

Again, you do not realise that you need to show evidence of a recent sustained relationship and this is not necessarily just a few photo's they want documentary proof, passport stamps, previous flight invoices, etc. They will want to know all dates you were together and documentary proof of these dates. Have a look at 'UK Border Force' in action on You Tube, it will give you a much better idea of how stringent they are. Unless you have put in sufficient groundwork to show you have a cast iron case in all areas they can put the girl through misery and kick her back at any stage, that would not go down well with her & cost you a fair old wack.

If you don't need a visa for Russia as you are from Brazil then to me this looks very favourably by far the best route to go, you would in any case NEED to show a more recent relationship. Although an EU citizen being from Brazil is likely to be a negative with UK Border Control in terms of getting her in here - they will not likely look favourably on a foreigner applying to bring in another foreigner even if it is supposedly for a short stay - they will see it as 'do you care if a foreigner is brought in the country then decides to stay on illegally'. They do not want to risk anyone being brought in the country on a whim. I'm not saying it impossible but you will need all your ducks in a row and even then they might knock it back.

I would say you seem to have a kind of breezy attitude to UK visa/visitation, you need to realise that its a lot more harder than you think, there is no easy 'you do it this way at that's it', you just apply for it no big deal, etc, its an ordeal. For someone very wealthy in this country maybe less so but it still won't be a walk in the park. I think a lot of foreigners are brought up with the less stringent border control policies in their country and think it will be like that in the UK, it is not. The girl I was last with seemed to think this and thought I was being obstructionist in telling her all this, I was not it is how it is but no matter how I tried to explain she just did not get it, essentially she did not trust me I believe. So if I were you I would ditch any idea of this happening any time soon and go visit her, unless you just want a bash at it but I can't see it getting through so wasted money in my opinion.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 19, 2018, 08:31:30 AM
It might sound like I underestimate the difficulty.

I don't.

A little backstory on myself: My original plan leaving Brazil was to stay in the US. I went to college there, but after that failed to obtain a visa to stay. Moved back to Brazil and plan B was going to Canada. Got accepted into a second school there but govt rejected the student visa.
Having the Portuguese passport, I just didn't unpack, changed my plane ticket to the UK and boom. Here I am.

So, I have had experience and I'm fully aware of how strict immigration policy can be. I'm just trying to focus on how to get her here.

That said, let's think about another scenario: A person in Russia, who has a vacation coming up, wants to visit the UK. Strictly as a tourist, to visit the country and see stuff in it, then come back.
They can't??? This sounds so ridiculous to me that a person wants to visit a country and can't.
Now, I understand countries need to protect themselves to some extent against dishonest immigrants and just people who think they can waltz in and already start breaking laws...
But come on, it can't be THAT hard.

I'll ask again: Let's focus on helping me do this. Instead of trying to convince me to do something else.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 19, 2018, 09:23:50 AM
LOL it really IS that hard.

If you are a wealthy FSW in a professional job, etc then they are more likely to accept its for tourism, but they are not going to let people in who can't satisfy their stringent criteria already outlined in brief here. Why? because anyone could say they are just coming for tourism and then overstay illegally. The situation would get out of hand for them to try and round up all the overstays. To be a worthwhile tourist anyway the person would need a fair amount of money to purchase stuff. So will a tourist (General Visa) may sound benign they know if they were easy going on it many would use it to overstay in the UK illegally. Probably the arguments surrounding it having been called 'tourist' is probably why it is now call a 'general' visa.

I'm not sure why you are so against visiting her, if money is a concern then you may have difficulty convincing the UK Border Control you have the necessary finances to support her. Also if you re over there and things don't work out you can call up a load of other girls of the dating websites to meet with, here you will not have that option. Also, if she has not currently been working I would wonder why, she may not have been desperate economically in the past but that situation may have changed.

If you are still intent on doing this you can go ahead, I wouldn't recommend it but it may be handy for others here for you to let them know how you got on. I don't think anyone has a knowledge of how to best increase your odds as the situation is what it is. Just be aware of the points we've mentioned so as to not put your foot in it too much. Also think up good reasons in advance for any questions that may come up. Odds are you won't get a chance and they will accept or reject on the basis of what is submitted.

As you have seen in US & Canada how the situation is so you should realise you are just facing the same thing here and what you are up against.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 19, 2018, 09:31:31 AM
Trench stop giving out bad advice as usual.  The guy said he doesnt' want to go to Russia.  Did you even read that?

You spew nonsense about UK laws regarding visas.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 19, 2018, 10:20:56 AM
Trench stop giving out bad advice as usual.  The guy said he doesnt' want to go to Russia.  Did you even read that?

You spew nonsense about UK laws regarding visas.

You wouldn't know Sting since you are Canadian. You just don't get it, he has to meet up with her again or she won't be able to get in based of a meeting two years ago.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 19, 2018, 10:29:59 AM
You wouldn't know Sting since you are Canadian. You just don't get it, he has to meet up with her again or she won't be able to get in based of a meeting two years ago.

dude you didn't even read the thread.  She can get a General visa as a tourist.  You are just thinking if she's coming in as a spouse.

She doesn't even need to say she's going to visit him, just that she's on vacation. 

I lived in the UK.  True my Canadian passport gave me easy passage, one of the perks of being a Commonwealth country. 

I know several Russian people who visited the UK with no problem.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 19, 2018, 10:39:51 AM
If the UK is like Canada, she will have to prove she has a job, an apartment, and money in the bank, or her visa application likely will be denied. 


moby has done this, so he may be the best person here to give advice on this topic.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 19, 2018, 11:29:13 AM
dude you didn't even read the thread.  She can get a General visa as a tourist.  You are just thinking if she's coming in as a spouse.

She doesn't even need to say she's going to visit him, just that she's on vacation. 

I lived in the UK.  True my Canadian passport gave me easy passage, one of the perks of being a Commonwealth country. 

I know several Russian people who visited the UK with no problem.

She doesn't need to say she us going to visit him but this will mean she will have to prove that she has even greater financial resources. She can either apply on her own status or joint with his but financial status and will to return has to be proved. Yes some Russians go to UK on holiday but they have proved financial status/will to return. It's not that easy for most Russians. It's not like just saying 'hey I just want to see Big Ben let me in'. I am not getting it confused with spouse visa that has English tests attached but in some ways is less hassle. It why I said to the last girl I was with that it's as much work if not more to get a tourist/general visa than one where you are married. Alternatively she could try for a student visa but again she is unlikely to qualify for that either. Boethius has git it exactly right, the points she states are the same criteria here also.

Stuff can be sorted over time usually one way or another but a lot of people seem to walk around thinking this sort of thing can be sorted overnight as they wish it so it cannot. They seem to refuse to accept that it can not be sorted to their immediate need. I don't know where this sort of thinking comes from  :-\
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 19, 2018, 03:05:05 PM
It might sound like I underestimate the difficulty.

I don't.

A little backstory on myself: My original plan leaving Brazil was to stay in the US. I went to college there, but after that failed to obtain a visa to stay. Moved back to Brazil and plan B was going to Canada. Got accepted into a second school there but govt rejected the student visa.
Having the Portuguese passport, I just didn't unpack, changed my plane ticket to the UK and boom. Here I am.

So, I have had experience and I'm fully aware of how strict immigration policy can be. I'm just trying to focus on how to get her here.

That said, let's think about another scenario: A person in Russia, who has a vacation coming up, wants to visit the UK. Strictly as a tourist, to visit the country and see stuff in it, then come back.
They can't??? This sounds so ridiculous to me that a person wants to visit a country and can't.
Now, I understand countries need to protect themselves to some extent against dishonest immigrants and just people who think they can waltz in and already start breaking laws...
But come on, it can't be THAT hard.

I'll ask again: Let's focus on helping me do this. Instead of trying to convince me to do something else.

Jesus how hard can this be?

http://www.gov.uk/standard-visitor-visa/eligibility

http://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-v-visitor-rules

Immigration lawyer would probably cite you more or less the same stuff. Most of the information can be found online.

As written down in Part V4, especially Parts V4.2 & V4.3, you need proof that there is:

Genuine intention to visit
V 4.2 The applicant must satisfy the decision maker that they are a genuine visitor. This means that the applicant:
(a) will leave the UK at the end of their visit; and
(b) will not live in the UK for extended periods through frequent or successive visits, or make the UK their main home; and
(c) is genuinely seeking entry for a purpose that is permitted by the visitor routes (these are listed in Appendices 3, 4 and 5); and
(d) will not undertake any prohibited activities set out in V 4.5 – V 4.10; and
(e) must have sufficient funds to cover all reasonable costs in relation to their visit without working or accessing public funds. This includes the cost of the return or onward journey, any costs relating to dependants, and the cost of planned activities such as private medical treatment.

Funds, maintenance and accommodation provided by a third party

V 4.3 A visitor’s travel, maintenance and accommodation may be provided by a third party where the decision maker is satisfied that they:
(a) have a genuine professional or personal relationship with the visitor; and
(b) are not, or will not be, in breach of UK immigration laws at the time of decision or the visitor’s entry to the UK; and
(c) can and will provide support to the visitor for the intended duration of their stay.

So yes, as fellow poster msmob has repeatedly advised and alluded to, it is by far more advisable that you FLY to Russia first even if you only see her for a few days, take a couple photos etc just to prove you're "real" friends and to make the case for her visa application stronger. You've got your Brazilian passport, so you're already way better off than us Brits who need a Visa before we can even enter Russia.

Additionally, please make sure she PRINTS OUT A COPY OF HER RETURN TICKET as proof that she will leave the UK on the specified date.

There are no shortcuts. As ridiculous as it may seem, this is the law and I haven't had a friend successfully bribe his way through Border Control. If you still prefer to invite her straightaway into the UK, then do so at your own peril.

An ALTERNATIVE, is she may apply to study in the UK. Maybe a summer english language course. That would be relatively easy, though it'll end up costing more. Or perhaps apply to visit as part of a tour group, though she wouldn't be able to stay very long if she takes that route.

There's reasons why this endeavour for a Russian woman doesn't come cheap. That said, I don't see why it's so hard to visit Russia again? In my case, I am a broke-ass unemployed postgraduate student, surviving on a meagre stipend, who has been saving up for visa and flight tickets for my next trip to Russia this coming March just to see my sweet darling again in Moscow ;D

Like you said, I'm very confident you'll make this work.  :thumbsup:
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 19, 2018, 04:00:24 PM

So yes, as fellow poster msmob

Additionally, please make sure she PRINTS OUT A COPY OF HER RETURN TICKET...

Ahem... and Trenchy ;D

The return ticket is not proof she will return as those with a bit up top will buy a return even if they plan to illegally overstay. It often costs little more than a single and those with a single ticket only are giving Border Control an easy case that they are not planning to return. That said its not necessarily the case they may just not know the exact time/flight back they want. It's all rather stupid to read anything into tickets bring dingle or return as the person could be intending to leave or not either way. Still Border Control use it to knock back those with just a single ticket but they still might not accept a return ticket as proof of your intention to leave, it just avoids putting your foot in it and giving them an easy case of a possible overstay as they see it.

Other countries like the US do the same, I used to see TV programmes on their Border Control too and it's much like ours. I used to think if I wanted to live there illegally I would just by a return then just not use the return, lol. As a guy from the UK under a visa free regime I would have almost certainly gotten away with it if that were my intention. Not having a decent source of income to support me though meant this would have ultimately been a silly thing to even consider anyway.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 19, 2018, 05:37:54 PM
Jesus how hard can this be?

http://www.gov.uk/standard-visitor-visa/eligibility

http://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration-rules/immigration-rules-appendix-v-visitor-rules

Immigration lawyer would probably cite you more or less the same stuff. Most of the information can be found online.

As written down in Part V4, especially Parts V4.2 & V4.3, you need proof that there is:

Genuine intention to visit
V 4.2 The applicant must satisfy the decision maker that they are a genuine visitor. This means that the applicant:
(a) will leave the UK at the end of their visit; and
(b) will not live in the UK for extended periods through frequent or successive visits, or make the UK their main home; and
(c) is genuinely seeking entry for a purpose that is permitted by the visitor routes (these are listed in Appendices 3, 4 and 5); and
(d) will not undertake any prohibited activities set out in V 4.5 – V 4.10; and
(e) must have sufficient funds to cover all reasonable costs in relation to their visit without working or accessing public funds. This includes the cost of the return or onward journey, any costs relating to dependants, and the cost of planned activities such as private medical treatment.

Funds, maintenance and accommodation provided by a third party

V 4.3 A visitor’s travel, maintenance and accommodation may be provided by a third party where the decision maker is satisfied that they:
(a) have a genuine professional or personal relationship with the visitor; and
(b) are not, or will not be, in breach of UK immigration laws at the time of decision or the visitor’s entry to the UK; and
(c) can and will provide support to the visitor for the intended duration of their stay.

So yes, as fellow poster msmob has repeatedly advised and alluded to, it is by far more advisable that you FLY to Russia first even if you only see her for a few days, take a couple photos etc just to prove you're "real" friends and to make the case for her visa application stronger. You've got your Brazilian passport, so you're already way better off than us Brits who need a Visa before we can even enter Russia.

Additionally, please make sure she PRINTS OUT A COPY OF HER RETURN TICKET as proof that she will leave the UK on the specified date.

There are no shortcuts. As ridiculous as it may seem, this is the law and I haven't had a friend successfully bribe his way through Border Control. If you still prefer to invite her straightaway into the UK, then do so at your own peril.

An ALTERNATIVE, is she may apply to study in the UK. Maybe a summer english language course. That would be relatively easy, though it'll end up costing more. Or perhaps apply to visit as part of a tour group, though she wouldn't be able to stay very long if she takes that route.

There's reasons why this endeavour for a Russian woman doesn't come cheap. That said, I don't see why it's so hard to visit Russia again? In my case, I am a broke-ass unemployed postgraduate student, surviving on a meagre stipend, who has been saving up for visa and flight tickets for my next trip to Russia this coming March just to see my sweet darling again in Moscow ;D

Like you said, I'm very confident you'll make this work.  :thumbsup:

Finally someone truly wanting to help out. Thank you VERY MUCH for this response.

I guess I should go into more detail about why I don't want to go to Russia.

Reason #1:
I moved to the UK in September. Don't have a job yet. I have savings from running my own recording studio for 10 years in Brazil plus some production work in the US and Europe.
I have about 10 job applications out there right now, and at least a couple should pop up anytime. I have to be here for this, and if they want me to start right away, I obviously can't be out of the country. And when I do get a job, I won't be able to take a vacation anytime soon, so... there.

Reason #2:
She has roommates in Russia. The plane ticket is the same price for me to go there, or for her to come here. But if I go there I must also spend money on lodging. If she comes here she can just stay with me, instead of a pointless expense on a hotel.

Reason #3:
If I'm going over there to make a stronger case for the border patrol, how stronger would it be if we only have pictures that are so recent? For all they know, I could've just met her a month ago instead of 2 years ago. I don't see how this would be reason enough to go to Russia take pictures with her.

Reason #4:
I don't need to go to ascertain her intentions, as I've made clear. If I didn't trust her I wouldn't be considering this at all. I've been tricked, cheated and misled before. This is not that.

Reason #5:
I've been to Moscow. I've seen what I wanted to see there.
She hasn't been to the UK.
Makes way more sense to take a trip that's new, rather than a repeat one.

So, about the student visa:
That was actually my first idea to get her to come. Sign her up for an English course, get a letter of acceptance from the school, and boom.
But, it turns out that for a course to warrant a visa, it has to be full time and last a while, which is fine, except for how much this would COST.
Why do it this way and spend upwards of £5k, when I can apply for the general visitor visa and spend less than £1k? And she can still stay for 6 months on that one anyway.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 19, 2018, 05:51:07 PM
Ok now we're getting somewhere.


As for visiting her there again, that's a nope because I don't see a reason, as I've stated before.[/quote]

You asked for help and won't listen to the advice of someone who's done this ? ... ;)

The rest of your post is therefore moribund ..I'm outta here((
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 19, 2018, 06:14:03 PM

As for visiting her there again, that's a nope because I don't see a reason, as I've stated before.

You asked for help and won't listen to the advice of someone who's done this ? ... ;)

The rest of your post is therefore moribund ..I'm outta here((

I asked for help getting her here. Tell me how going to Russia right now would help, since, as I stated in my latest post, that would only get us RECENT pictures together, which, if I was a border patrol officer, would make me think even MORE that she plans to stay here.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 19, 2018, 06:36:58 PM
Also, since a "specialist" was mentioned...

Does anyone know of one? Like a professional, a lawyer who knows all the ins and outs of UK visa law, who can just take care of this? Preferably one who's done this exact thing before.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 19, 2018, 07:34:40 PM

Reason #3:
If I'm going over there to make a stronger case for the border patrol, how stronger would it be if we only have pictures that are so recent? For all they know, I could've just met her a month ago instead of 2 years ago. I don't see how this would be reason enough to go to Russia take pictures with her.

So, about the student visa:
That was actually my first idea to get her to come. Sign her up for an English course, get a letter of acceptance from the school, and boom.
But, it turns out that for a course to warrant a visa, it has to be full time and last a while, which is fine, except for how much this would COST.
Why do it this way and spend upwards of £5k, when I can apply for the general visitor visa and spend less than £1k? And she can still stay for 6 months on that one anyway.

Fair enough. As mentioned earlier, here are some of your options:

For the scenarios that 100% do not require proof of recent relationship for a general visa:

1. Student Path - If, she applies for a general visa for the purpose of studying in the UK, (i.e short English course), usually the school sponsors her in and takes care of much of the paperwork, and yes indeed, as you said, "boom", she'll be in the UK in a jiffy so long as she has demonstrated she has enough for the fees.

2. Short Stay Tourist Path - If, she joins a tour operated by one of those Russian tour operators and visit the UK as a tourist. Do note these have been in decline as business hasn't been good. Issue here is she won't be able to stay very long.

For the scenario that requires at least some proof of recent relationship for a visa:

3. Visit Friend Path: You sponsoring her as a visitor into the UK. Obviously you'll probably need to sponsor her since she hasn't firmly established herself in Russia, with no bank account, no bank statements and no employment record, for now. To make the sponsorship legitimate, you'll have to prove there's a sustained relationship between the two of you. Eg. phone numbers, proof that you visited her or she visited you recently, etc etc you may even be asked to come down to the immigration office. More importantly, she needs to know a decent level of english.

Hence,

Option 1 - Advantage: No proof of relationship needed. Applications quite routine and usually successful. Drawback: A bit pricey?
Option 2 - Advantage: No proof of relationship needed. Cheap. Drawback: She won't be able to spend a long time with you.
Option 3 - Advantage: Cheapest. Drawback: Need you as a sponsor, and proof of relationship. Riskiest, based on your and her current situation. And if the 1st application is bounced, I have no idea if her name will be red flagged on the immigration list, making subsequent applications harder to succeed. Border Control Officer makes the final call.

Just my general take on it. Your options. Your choice. Entirely up to you how you want to go about this. Pay a little more premium for ease of mind, or risk it.

I know no expert that I can recommend, but I'm sure you'll find one easily. Best of luck and I hope you do succeed in meeting her in the UK, eventually. Ah, and do share with us the experience if you can! Perhaps a Trip Report. We can all learn something. :popcorn:

Best wishes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tV-wgZBGfCo Some entertainment, visa-free Canadian though. :P
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Davo2 on January 19, 2018, 07:43:18 PM
If you decide to precede, book a return ticket. Our department of immigration said it's another piece of evidence that's builds your case. Don't make any claims that are untrue, like you have talked regularly for the last two years or she may never get a visa again. Most importantly for your relationship, be honest with her so she is prepared for the worst case scenario. Honestly you probably have a 10% chance she will be approved.

The woman I'm conversing with, was very offended that her visa was rejected for a few days. She was a little happier after talking to a visa specialist in Russia and found that hardly any Russian visas were being granted late last year. She also read several Russian visa forums that indicated the same.

As far as money goes, it's a different situation, but in total we had $7000 designated for two weeks, but would have only spent half of that. Our visa department indicated she should have at least $3000 in her bank for her holiday.

Recently I read an article about an Australian man who got a Russian woman pregnant and then they got engaged. Her visa was rejected also. I's never a sure thing.

You have nothing  to lose, but a little time and money and hopefully you're successful, but don't be disappointed if it gets rejected.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 19, 2018, 08:37:43 PM
Hmmm.

It's looking more and more like my first idea was the best one.
Study visa seems to be the way to go. More expensive but better odds. I'm a fan of this.
I'll do some research and report back, I'm sure more people can benefit.
Keep it coming guys!

And thanks.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 19, 2018, 08:45:39 PM
Also THAT VIDEO!!!!

"We're gonna do some heroin, cocaine, and then we're opening a brothel here".

AHAHAHAHAHAH MY GOD
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 19, 2018, 09:31:58 PM
Rod, getting her a visa for a tourist visit to stay with you will be utterly hopeless if you are unemployed also with no income. It basically condemns that path to failure.

Visiting her in Russia is likely to cost a bit say about £1k for a week adding an extra £500 for each week thereafter. Flights aren't real expensive but by the time you add accommodation, in city travel expenses, food, any entertainment, medical insurance etc it all adds up.

If option 1 had any go in it you would show documentation of your visit along with documentation of your visit two years ago, airline invoices etc not just photos. It all helps to show a sustained relationship over time, but yes they could have a negative take on it. So in future if you get w job bear this in mind.

The student path is probably your best hope but courses may run into thousands since it is at international rate and seen as a lucrative market. Although you have savings it sounds like this option would eat through them. She is highly unlikely to have the money. You could hunt around for a cheap establishment. I'm not sure that even this is an option that will go smoothly for you though.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: 2tallbill on January 19, 2018, 09:41:11 PM
Finally someone truly wanting to help out. Thank you VERY MUCH for this response.

I guess I should go into more detail about why I don't want to go to Russia.

Reason #1:
Don't have a job yet.

Reason #2:
The plane ticket is the same price for me to go there, or for her to come here.

Reason #3:
For all they know, I could've just met her a month ago instead of 2 years ago. I don't see how this would be reason enough to go to Russia take pictures with her.

Reason #4:
I don't need to go to ascertain her intentions, as I've made clear. If I didn't trust her I wouldn't be considering this at all. I've been tricked, cheated and misled before. This is not that.

Reason #5:
I've been to Moscow. I've seen what I wanted to see there.
She hasn't been to the UK.
Makes way more sense to take a trip that's new, rather than a repeat one.

except for how much this would COST.
Why do it this way and spend upwards of £5k, when I can apply for the general visitor visa and spend less than £1k? And she can still stay for 6 months on that one anyway.

It looks like you are thinking about this all wrong.

First you need a job.

You need to stop thinking about getting her a visa to visit you. You need to visit
her because you can without a mile of red tape and you haven't seen her for two
years.

You need to get a job and make some money, work weekends if necessary to
save more money and see if you can't get some extra time off by doing so.

Build the relationship and get to know the girl.

I can't believe that others are advising you to try and get her a visa which
likely won't work out when you can get a visa and on a plane for peanuts.
Renting an apartment on airbnb isn't that expensive. 

If this is too expensive for you now, get your affairs in order so that you can
afford it.

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 20, 2018, 06:50:17 AM
Again, let's focus.

I have made up my mind that she's coming here.

I have crossed the threshold of defending this against the ones who don't think it's a good idea.

If anyone here thinks bringing her is not the way to go or won't work, stop posting right now.
For the rest of you who actually wants to help out, please keep contributing with ideas. This is actually helping!

I AM getting a job first. I'm assuming any visa route I go will take the government a while to process it. From what I've seen, it can take up to 3 months.
A lot can happen in that time. But one thing that will definitely NOT happen, is for me to have time off from whatever job I get, to go to Russia. So this would be impossible even if I WANTED to go there first. Which I don't.

Anyone got a lead on a lawyer/company? I've found a few online but they wanna charge me £150 just for a consult. Nope.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 20, 2018, 09:39:24 AM
Man, this guy is actually tighter than me :D

Rod you know £150 for a consult with a lawyer is the least of your worries. Whichever way you cut this it is going to cost and you are going to be the one paying. As is often said on here getting with a FSW is not a poor man's game. ML often states the need to build up financial strength. You don't need to be super rich and a few that are relatively poor manage it but if you are ruling out going to Russia where you don't even need to apply or pay for a visa as you are Brazilian you are ruling out the poor man's main route.

Remember a General Visa will cost you £150 for her and that is before all other expenses if this would work which at the moment is unlikely. There is also no saying you will get a job in the near future here, people can stay our of work a long time here, the longer they are out of work the harder it tends to be to get work. Your attitude to me tends to make me think that you would be open to her illegally overstaying as why make all the ordeal otherwise. Work wise if you were in your jobs for at least 6 months, more preferably a year or more and your & her finances improved a lot as a result including her getting a bank account then this option of bringing her here might improve but still no guarantees.

It's kind of strange you have a similar attitude to the last girl I was with in terms of getting visa for the UK - a kind of self denial that it is not possible in the current situation. No matter how hard the arguing still there was a attitude that it is somehow possible. Where does this come from?
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: ML on January 20, 2018, 09:47:09 AM
No matter how hard the arguing still there was a attitude that it is somehow possible. Where does this come from?

Desire for sex with a hot gal (or any gal) can be so strong as to rule over any logic.
The burden that some men must contend with.

Or as Winston would say:  The burden that with some men must contend.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 20, 2018, 10:19:20 AM
Desire for sex with a hot gal (or any gal) can be so strong as to rule over any logic.
The burden that some men must contend with.

Or as Winston would say:  The burden with that some men must contend.

Plenty of hot gals in the UK, and in Brazil too for that matter. And for a LOT cheaper and less labor intensive and time consuming than getting a russian girl into this country. That's not it mate.

I've decided to go the study visa route. Her English does need work, and I've found a great school I know from Boston, a friend went to visit me there and studied with them, they are a big company that's worldwide and their prices are fair (£1000 for a month long course).
They are also flexible with the duration, meaning they can extend the course if we decided she wants to keep going.

I've contacted them and the next step is checking if they take care of the visa documentation, as I know some schools do. At least the part about the letter of acceptance, etc.

And then, I just need to allow time for the government to process the visa and set a start date.
Will keep you gentlemen posted.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 20, 2018, 10:24:01 AM
Man, this guy is actually tighter than me :D

Rod you know £150 for a consult with a lawyer is the least of your worries. Whichever way you cut this it is going to cost and you are going to be the one paying. As is often said on here getting with a FSW is not a poor man's game. ML often states the need to build up financial strength. You don't need to be super rich and a few that are relatively poor manage it but if you are ruling out going to Russia where you don't even need to apply or pay for a visa as you are Brazilian you are ruling out the poor man's main route.

Remember a General Visa will cost you £150 for her and that is before all other expenses if this would work which at the moment is unlikely. There is also no saying you will get a job in the near future here, people can stay our of work a long time here, the longer they are out of work the harder it tends to be to get work. Your attitude to me tends to make me think that you would be open to her illegally overstaying as why make all the ordeal otherwise. Work wise if you were in your jobs for at least 6 months, more preferably a year or more and your & her finances improved a lot as a result including her getting a bank account then this option of bringing her here might improve but still no guarantees.

It's kind of strange you have a similar attitude to the last girl I was with in terms of getting visa for the UK - a kind of self denial that it is not possible in the current situation. No matter how hard the arguing still there was a attitude that it is somehow possible. Where does this come from?

The money itself is not the issue.
The issue is spending it the right way. £150 on a conversation with a lawyer is not worth it, in my opinion.
£1000 on a one month English course for my girl? Worth it, yes.
See, it's almost ten times more money, but she gets something GOOD out of it.
Because even if things ultimately don't work out between us, she still walks away with something which makes me happy. We have to consider she's risking everything to come here and try this out with me. If it doesn't work, I'm in the UK, well and good, but for her it sucks because she needs to go back to Russia and probably won't have a job anymore since she left for a month.
Whereas the lawyer won't tell me anything I don't already know, except for maybe a couple legal loopholes he might know about.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 20, 2018, 04:27:36 PM
Slaps head to forehead

Guy asks for adviCe .. gets it from someone who has worn the same t-shirt and starts talking about 'student visas' - when he can get her in as his wife on the EU route ..

I mean there's 'no point going to see her' ( you know better than all the members and govt 's Visa officers) - so just pay for her take a trip to Cyprus and get married, there...and apply for the family permit visa and we can observe the train-crash in slow motion ....

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 20, 2018, 05:35:41 PM
I don't even know if I understand half of what you said... wife? Nobody said anything about going for a spouse visa. Not once.

What the hell does Cyprus have to do with anything?
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Davo2 on January 20, 2018, 11:55:23 PM
I believe that mob is saying, you're literally beating a dead horse given your combined circumstances, to try to get any type of visa. If you won't spend some time with her in Russia to improve your chances, getting married is your only option to get her into the UK.

I don't really have the experience other guys do to be giving advice, but for the last 4 weeks I've been reading everything I can and even asking visa specialists for their advice. It's far tougher than you think, even in my situation with a woman who's established and financially independent. I'm starting to see there's still only a small chance of getting her here on a tourist visa,  even if I can prove a legitimate relationship, this is why most of the guys here get engaged before they attempt to bring her to visit their country.

I made the mistake of reading about all the guys who had failed before and thinking it was a different situation for me. ML justifiably made this comment when I failed...

"Weren't you warned to have her avoid telling of relationship (of any kind) with  a man in your country?
We have issued plenty of warnings here over the years on this topic"

Trust me you will be back here in several months with egg on your face like me  ;)
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 21, 2018, 12:19:39 AM
I don't even know if I understand half of what you said... wife? Nobody said anything about going for a spouse visa. Not once.

What the hell does Cyprus have to do with anything?

He is suggesting my previous idea with my last girl that you meet on Cyprus, which tend to be easier to get into and is English, Russian & Greek speaking. Get a job there and stay together, if you get on then get married. She will then be eligible for a UK spouse visa and you can both come to the UK. UK spouse visa's though a lot of paperwork and a few hurdles to get over such as an English test are at least feasible to get.

As you are not a UK citizen you should do this, this year to get in before Brexit next year. It may still work after Brexit but it all depends on agreement reached with the EU as regards to EU citizens.

The weather is warmer in Cyprus than the UK and the road layout & customs similar so it may be worth a thought.

I'm still curious as to the relentless attitude of getting her here in the UK?
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 21, 2018, 12:31:47 AM
I don't even know if I understand half of what you said... wife? Nobody said anything about going for a spouse visa. Not once.

What the hell does Cyprus have to do with anything?

Sighs,

Davo got it..

and you don't NEED a 'spousal visa' - if you use the EU route..

Please - I understand English is not your first lang, but READ the links I gave you and  LISTEN..

You are NOT going to get her to the UK - until you demonstrate a meaningful relationship..  ( support, bank account, regular income) END OF..

(unless you marry)

Cyprus is an EU nation where a Brit or EU-Citizen and Russian can meet easily - Visa easy for a Russian and getting married, there, is easy, too - after which you can come to the UK on a FAMILY Permit Visa.. ) as already mentioned ...

The 'train-crash' reference - which I note you didn't ask about - is the likelihood that a couple that haven't spent time together's marriage will be a roller coaster and end badly




Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 21, 2018, 01:32:20 AM
Just let GM Rod do what he wants.  If he can get her a student or visitor visa to the UK great.  He doesnt' want to go to Russia.

If it doesn't work I'm sure he'll find other ways.

It's the UK government and visa consulate that he needs to go ask info for, not random guys on a forum.

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 21, 2018, 02:17:34 AM
Sighs,

Davo got it..

and you don't NEED a 'spousal visa' - if you use the EU route..

Please - I understand English is not your first lang, but READ the links I gave you and  LISTEN..

You are NOT going to get her to the UK - until you demonstrate a meaningful relationship..  ( support, bank account, regular income) END OF..

(unless you marry)

Cyprus is an EU nation where a Brit or EU-Citizen and Russian can meet easily - Visa easy for a Russian and getting married, there, is easy, too - after which you can come to the UK on a FAMILY Permit Visa.. ) as already mentioned ...

The 'train-crash' reference - which I note you didn't ask about - is the likelihood that a couple that haven't spent time together's marriage will be a roller coaster and end badly

Yes I knew what you meant by roller coaster ride & train crash because if he married her now to get the EU route it will likely end up that way be a use they have spent little prior time together.

That is why I said what I said about Cyprus as you have just dobe as it's a place where they can spend time together before marriage. I think Rod has already stated that he doesn't want marriage straight of so Cyprus is a good option for him.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 21, 2018, 02:23:14 AM
Just let GM Rod do what he wants.  If he can get her a student or visitor visa to the UK great.  He doesnt' want to go to Russia.

If it doesn't work I'm sure he'll find other ways.

It's the UK government and visa consulate that he needs to go ask info for, not random guys on a forum.

No Rof needs us random forum guys :D

UK already give you info that they require and about the process online. You can phone up the consulate but they will be able to tell you little more. A bit like Davo who is A us phone up his and got told it would be ok then got knocked back. They are not going to give you any loophole over the phone of how to get in nor the way that will give you the best chance. They will likely just tell you to fill out form stating situation as is. As been gone into here that will not favour Rod one bit.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Davo2 on January 21, 2018, 02:47:45 AM
For once I'll agree with Trench.... They are absolutely f@%#ing useless. You will never talk to anyone higher than a general telephone operator, who basically said everything was great and it shouldn't be a problem. The problem is she's was an Aussie woman 15000km away from where the visa was being processed by a Russian woman.

The rejection letter was that vague that I had to talk to a specialist to make sense of it and there is no way to appeal their decision  either. This  means that they can reject it on any grounds, even if the decision contradicts all the supportive evidence to the contrary.

It cost me $1000 to learn this lesson, almost the same as the cheapest flight to Russia I found last year.

Forget the government visa department, or an immigration lawyer, contact a visa specialist who lodges them for a living. They will talk to you for free over the phone and will most probably  tell you the same as members here are.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 21, 2018, 03:26:45 AM
Just let GM Rod do what he wants.  If he can get her a student or visitor visa to the UK great.  He doesnt' want to go to Russia.

If it doesn't work I'm sure he'll find other ways.

It's the UK government and visa consulate that he needs to go ask info for, not random guys on a forum.

Sting23

Whilst it is agreed that the horse can only be led to the water - not made to drink, the OP is getting perfect advice from me and for free. 'Random' in this particular field - I am not - having 'won' legal cases versus IRL. CY and UK on this very subject - with their legal team looking daft - in all three cases... OK?
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 21, 2018, 07:21:43 AM
Ok so let's address all of the options and all of the claims:

First, English is not my first language, but I speak, read and understand it a lot better than most natives both in the UK and the US, let's get that out of the way. If not for my accent, nobody would be able to tell I wasn't born in an English speaking country (and maybe how I look, because I definitely don't look like I'm from the US or the UK even with the green eyes).

Second, the Cyprus thing is ludicrous. The whole plan around it is to LIVE THERE? Get married there? To then have a shot at coming back here with her? Listen, I have a family of 100 people and about 80 of those live in Brazil. If I ever get married, there's high chance the wedding will happen in Brazil, or maybe two weddings, one in each country, since you can't logistically get that many people to travel to a different country to attend, unless you're a millionaire. Which I am not.

Third, let's talk, again, about the three options of getting her here.

Tourist - Apparently the hardest, but best, because it can allow her to stay up to 6 months at a time, and allows multiply entry until the visa expires. But I'm not going for this one because she can't prove financial condition to support herself here, and if I try to do it as a sponsor, I believe it will become suspicious that we have an agenda (which, honestly, we do).

Spouse - Obviously, can't do this yet because we are not there yet as a couple. We still need to spend time together and see how things go. Also all the reasons I mentioned above. This only becomes an option AFTER we're at least engaged. Which might not even happen.

Student - My first idea and apparently, the best one. On this option, the school wants the business so they have a legit reason to help with documentation, it's an easier way to prove legitimate interest to be in the UK for lawful reasons, doesn't require me to be the sponsor (but I can still pay for the course and visa expenses), and she learns English, which is crucial for any human being on this planet, in my opinion.

Lastly, let's talk again about me going to Russia. I'm not being stubborn. I just don't see how going there would improve anything. I'm thinking here as if I was a border force officer: If I see pictures of a dude with a Russian girl, from like last month, what I will assume is, he went there, had a vacation, and now he wants to keep seeing this girl back home, which means they are in high risk of breaking the law by having her stay longer than allowed.

None of you gave me a proper reason why going to Russia improves my chances. Instead of attacks and random mockery, be objective and tell me how that would improve my odds? Because I don't see it.
The only advantage of going there, that I can see, is that I get to spend some time with her, whereas getting her here will take a while and I will have to wait. But again, how does that help the visa? Especially if I'm going the student route.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 21, 2018, 08:27:40 AM

Lastly, let's talk again about me going to Russia. I'm not being stubborn.

None of you gave me a proper reason why going to Russia improves my chances. Instead of attacks and random mockery, be objective and tell me how that would improve my odds? Because I don't see it.


I think going to Russia is a waste of time too.  Trench and msmob think you are much further along in your relationship.  They are thinking that you want to marry this girl.  Hence why they think going to Russia will help, to build a case that you are together.

If you were going for the spousal visa then yes it would help.  But you just want to spend more time with her first.  I get that.  They don't or just can't read.  Going to Cyprus is a bad suggestion too.  You don't want to take a vacation with her. 

Student visa seems the best option for now.  She can have 6 months in the UK.  And get benefits with English classes.  So now go look for the application and start the process for her.

And I am impressed with your English writing seeing you are not a native.  If you didn't say you were from Brazil I would not have guessed.  You write much more articulately than many "native" speakers here for sure.  (Trench you listening?!)

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 21, 2018, 08:34:10 AM
Sting23

Whilst it is agreed that the horse can only be led to the water - not made to drink, the OP is getting perfect advice from me and for free. 'Radom' in this particular field - I am not - having 'won' legal cases versus IRL. CY and UK and this very subject - with their legal team looking daft - in all three cases... OK?

what do you mean legal cases?  I don't know your background.  He's looking to bring a girl to the UK to see her.  That's it.  Not as a spouse or fiancee yet. 

GM ROD would waste more money going to Russia or Cyprus.  Did you even read his story.  He wants to find work in the UK.  Being anywhere else nulifies that.  He's not gonna go visit her for 2 weeks or a month.  Then what, he returns home? 

He wants to spend as much time as possible with her to build a proper relationship.  The best way is her going to the UK.  He can support her there if they live in the same flat.  If he travels he needs to rent a place.

He's gonna spend the money either on flights, rent, or a student visa for her.  I'd say better the visa.

If your situation was exactly the same then fine. but I think it's completely different.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 21, 2018, 09:08:57 AM
Sting gets it.

Yeah I've already contacted Kaplan international. That's the school a friend of mine went to in Boston, I've talked to a few people and everyone has good things to say about this school.

Tomorrow I should hear something from them, and I'll take it from there. Will keep you gentlemen posted!!!

Thanks!!
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Davo2 on January 21, 2018, 02:13:53 PM
I think you will still have to explain your relationship with her since you are sponsoring her......I found this article regarding how much she needs for her monthly expenses.


Things to avoid when applying for a UK student visa
Study International Staff
Applying for a UK student visa is a typically straightforward business, but it can sometimes get tricky. Immigration is now a hot button topic in the UK, and the government under Prime Minister Theresa May has signalled its intention to tighten rules for student visas. The UK is still an outstanding study destination, but given its current political climate, it's imperative that you pay extra attention to the visa application process so you don't receive an unnecessary rejection.


To help you navigate this crucial process, here are some pitfalls you should take note of:

Avoid filling forms out incorrectly

This is obvious enough, but cannot be understated. Not only must you ensure that relevant and correct information is entered into the appropriate field on the form, you must firstly ensure that you're filling out the right form! Fortunately, the UK government has helpfully digitised many of its visa procedures and you can easily apply online via the Visa4UK automated system.

Many of the online form fields can be confusing, so it's best to check your host university's website for a guide on how to proceed - most UK university websites provide detailed instructions for your visa application. Failing that, you should consult your university contacts, who may be able to walk you through each field. Third-party experts with knowledge in UK immigration law and procedures may also offer their assistance for a small fee. Given that a single error may seriously compromise your application chances, that's a pretty small price to pay.


Avoid ambiguity

Fill out all necessary information clearly, leaving no room for misinterpretation. For instance, spell out all acronyms - the UK official handling your application may not be familiar with local acronyms that refer to street or state names in your country. If you live in Kuala Lumpur, write "Kuala Lumpur" and not "KL". You're not sitting next to the entry clearance Officer as he or she goes through your application. The Officer may contact you to clarify certain details, but that only delays your application. Furthermore, you're not allowed to submit a new application while your visa is being processed.


Conduct some thorough research

Read up on relevant immigration rules and procedures, and get to know the university you're submitting your application to. Many international students will have to undergo an interview at a visa application centre (students from certain countries are exempt and you can check which countries here). Interviewees who show they know nothing about their chosen university can potentially derail their entire application. So prepare yourself. You have to be at least able to tell interviewers why you're studying there (why you picked the university), and demonstrate that you've researched the area and thought about living costs, etc.

Avoid complacency on your documentation

No one likes to deal with stacks and stacks of paper, but it's a necessary and absolutely crucial part of your application process. Failure to submit a particular supporting document could delay your application, or worse, doom your chances altogether, requiring you to start again from scratch. Make sure all your supporting documents are translated into English and arranged neatly together before you submit them. If you make things easier for immigration Officers, they will make things easier for you.


Make a checklist of all the documents you need to submit - you can refer to this page on the official UK government website as well as this detailed PDF. In general, you must provide the following:

- Your current passport or other valid travel documentation

- Evidence that you can support yourself in the UK and pay for your studies

- Proof of parental/guardian consent if you're younger than 18

- Your tuberculosis test results (only relevant to certain countries)

Don't worry - you should get all your documents back within 14 days.

Avoid being financially unprepared

Here. there are two issues: firstly, you have to be able to pay all the fees involved in the visa application process; secondly, you hmust be able to prove you have the funds to support yourself and pay for your studies.

On the first matter, it will cost you £328 to apply from outside the UK. You'll also have to throw in some money for the healthcare surcharge - the amount will sometimes vary so you can check it out here.


For the second, you'll need to provide documents proving that funds to support yourself have been present in your, your parent's or your guardian's accounts for 28 days before submitting your application. You must prove you have enough funds to pay for one year of course fees, or the entire course if it lasts less than one year.

As for living costs, the threshold depends on where you study. If you're studying in London, you'll need to save £1,265 for each month of your course, up to a maximum of nine months (£11,385). If you're studying elsewhere in the country, the amount is £1,015 for every month of your course, or £9,135 for a course lasting nine months or more.

Don't lie

No matter whether it's in the forms or at the interview, tell the whole truth, and nothing but the truth! If you give false information and/or forge any of your submitted documents, your visa application will not only be rejected, but a severe penalty will hang over your head. The UK government takes this very seriously, and pretty much exercises a zero tolerance policy against forged or fraudulent information.


"The use of fraudulent or forged documents should be---there’s absolutely zero tolerance from us on this. If we find people submitting documents that are forged or fraudulent or they haven’t disclosed full facts to us, we will not only refuse their application, they then risk a ban of 10 years from the UK if they make a subsequent application," UK Border Agency (UKBA) Regional Manager, Ed Mackie, told GMA News Online.

Other possible penalties include being deported from the UK if authorities discovered the deception while you are there, and being charged with a criminal offence, leading to a fine or maybe even jail time. So don't do it. It's just not worth it.

Don't break the rules

Lying isn't the only thing that can get you in hot soup. There are pretty harsh penalties if you violate the rules and conditions of your student visa. If you overstay - remaining in the UK beyond the duration allowed by your visa - the severity of your penalty will depend on how long you actually overstayed.

If your overstay period exceeds 28 days (four weeks), you won't be able to apply for further leave to remain from within the UK. If your overstay period exceeds 90 days (three months), you will typically be banned from returning to the UK for at least one year.


Not only that, overstaying will have huge repercussions for all future immigration applications, including applications involving countries other than the UK. So always keep track of your visa duration, and if you need to, apply for an extension well in advance.

It's also a terrible idea to violate the working rules surrounding your visa. Tier 4 are indeed allowed to work in the UK - up to a maximum of 20-hours paid or unpaid work per week during term time for degree students. However, if you work without permission or pursue work that is not allowed by the rules, you may face a court case, a hefty fine up to £5,000, jail time, and even


Read more at http://www.studyinternational.com/help-and-advice/things-to-avoid-when-applying-for-a-uk-student-visa#rAozSeijI1CRTII8.99
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 21, 2018, 02:27:16 PM
Ok so let's address all of the options and all of the claims:

First, English is not my first language, but I speak, read and understand it a lot better than most natives both in the UK and the US, let's get that out of the way. If not for my accent, nobody would be able to tell I wasn't born in an English speaking country (and maybe how I look, because I definitely don't look like I'm from the US or the UK even with the green eyes).

Second, the Cyprus thing is ludicrous. The whole plan around it is to LIVE THERE? Get married there? To then have a shot at coming back here with her? Listen, I have a family of 100 people and about 80 of those live in Brazil. If I ever get married, there's high chance the wedding will happen in Brazil, or maybe two weddings, one in each country, since you can't logistically get that many people to travel to a different country to attend, unless you're a millionaire. Which I am not.

Hmm, my suggesting English was your second language was to meant to 'excuse'  your inability to filter good advice when you had it and the above paragraphs only further to suggest a deficit

You came on here for advice - you've had it -  not understand it and 'lash out' at those ( more than suggesting ) that you are going about this the way .

Another try .... You MUST show a relationship and you haven't got one ... you are planning stuff that will have Visa officers passing your application to the NO pile

My Cyprus 'suggestion' was a good way to get her to the UK - be allowed to work / study - whatever you / she dreams.

Below you are proving that you haven't understood: 


Tourist - Apparently the hardest, but best, because it can allow her to stay up to 6 months at a time, and allows multiply entry until the visa expires. But I'm not going for this one because she can't prove financial condition to support herself here, and if I try to do it as a sponsor, I believe it will become suspicious that we have an agenda (which, honestly, we do).

This plus not a home owner, no kids and nothing to 'stop her from over-staying '  ( how the British will think )  - easily solvable - if you are patient - she opens a bank account and pays in her salary  )

There's nothing wrong re 'sponsoring' - if you can show a long-term relationship. 

Spouse - Obviously, can't do this yet because we are not there yet as a couple. We still need to spend time together and see how things go. Also all the reasons I mentioned above. This only becomes an option AFTER we're at least engaged. Which might not even happen.

Still thinking UK, only options ? ! The ONLY way you two are going to be together in the UK - even -to  try each other out - is by proving a relationship and you CAN'T ..Yet ...  So go see her and build the story you are going to need to sell

Student - My first idea and apparently, the best one. On this option, the school wants the business so they have a legit reason to help with documentation, it's an easier way to prove legitimate interest to be in the UK for lawful reasons, doesn't require me to be the sponsor (but I can still pay for the course and visa expenses), and she learns English, which is crucial for any human being on this planet, in my opinion.

Slaps forehead:   You are dreaming ...I speak as someone who was a partner in a biz bringing FSU students to the UK to study.... The UK Visa authorities will want to see someone ( back home) - her / her parents(?) with MORE than enough money to support her / her course fees.  ( Historical bank statements )  We never had a Visa refusal for the biz as we knew who wouldn't make it  past the Visa officer.

Lastly, let's talk again about me going to Russia. I'm not being stubborn. I just don't see how going there would improve anything. I'm thinking here as if I was a border force officer: If I see pictures of a dude with a Russian girl, from like last month, what I will assume is, he went there, had a vacation, and now he wants to keep seeing this girl back home, which means they are in high risk of breaking the law by having her stay longer than allowed.

Indeed you ARE being stubborn ..  Let's turn it  around ... You seem happy to send the lass the funds to try to live together ?  Then you MUST demonstrate that this is a long-term relationship - sending money - alone - isn't good enough the Visa Officer wants to see that you have spent time together


None of you gave me a proper reason why going to Russia improves my chances. Instead of attacks and random mockery, be objective and tell me how that would improve my odds? Because I don't see it.
The only advantage of going there, that I can see, is that I get to spend some time with her, whereas getting her here will take a while and I will have to wait. But again, how does that help the visa? Especially if I'm going the student route.

We surely did, but you simply cannot / will not accept it ...   We see SO many guys ask for advice then refuse to accept it - so kindly understand our 'frustration' - we want to help you - but you aren't helping yourself - by refusing to see you MUST show time spent together - a relationship ...

She lives in Russia - you are in the UK - you CANNOT bring her here ( UK) until you prove  a relationship.

She cannot prove she works, does not own her home, and you haven't seen her for ( nearly ?) 3 years - you are a CLASSIC visa refusal case

Once again, you are lucky enough to be a third EU state citizen - you have time to build up her 'status' ( bank account , money going in regularly ) - but it will be six months - at least  - before you should apply - and expect success.

 



Title: Hello guys!
Post by: 2tallbill on January 21, 2018, 04:19:19 PM
Again, let's focus.

I have made up my mind that she's coming here.

Feel free to focus all you want.

I am giving advice not just to you but to the 5 Members and 40 Guests
are viewing this topic right now along with any newbies who come along
later.

You can make up your mind to dig a hole to China, find the boiling
temperature of nitroglycerin or to create lasting peace in the Middle
East, or anything else you want. Feel free to ignore my posts if it
makes your hole to China seem more plausible and reasonable, but
I will post here or anywhere else I want with total disregard to your
proclamations and protestations.

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: southernX on January 21, 2018, 05:30:38 PM
For once I'll agree with Trench.... They are absolutely f@%#ing useless. You will never talk to anyone higher than a general telephone operator, who basically said everything was great and it shouldn't be a problem. The problem is she's was an Aussie woman 15000km away from where the visa was being processed by a Russian woman.

The rejection letter was that vague that I had to talk to a specialist to make sense of it and there is no way to appeal their decision  either. This  means that they can reject it on any grounds, even if the decision contradicts all the supportive evidence to the contrary.

It cost me $1000 to learn this lesson, almost the same as the cheapest flight to Russia I found last year.

Forget the government visa department, or an immigration lawyer, contact a visa specialist who lodges them for a living. They will talk to you for free over the phone and will most probably  tell you the same as members here are.

very true ,

thing is if you are serious from the get go , it pays to seek out and get correct information from a visa specialist /migration agent , and choose one that has experience dealing with the FSU and has had success ,

years ago i did have reason to call the australian embassy in moscow , they where helpful , but non committal on the application

your best avenue to a successfull application is to get exactly what they want and more , check it all , re check it before you send it , keep copies of all you send as you will need it again later
too may fail because they did not do the proper homework on their applications , if your rejected that makes it much harder second time around   


SX
SX
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 21, 2018, 11:56:50 PM

Another try .... You MUST show a relationship and you haven't got one ... you are planning stuff that will have Visa officers passing your application to the NO pile



you missed the whole boat.  He isn't even at the stage where it's a relationship.  She is applying for a student visa on her own grounds.  She probably won't even mention GmRod at all in the application.  She is there to simply study. What she does on her private time is her own business.

You're thinking about sponsoring or spousal visas. Not student visas.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 01:10:48 AM
NO, I didn't !....

You've just added noise in a thread you know scoobie about..  I've [ mostly ]  ignored your 'contributions' as they add NOTHING to the original question.


Hint : I  first raised the issue of how many times they'd met.

The OP  would be better to use his money by regular contributions to her bank account and visits  than lining a language schools pockets... 

He isn't listening to the advice given by someone who knows ...WHAT do you know about the rights of a third nation EU citizen residing in the UK to invite a g/f - they've lived with or the UK immigration rules?

IF you want to help the guy......put a sock in it











Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 22, 2018, 01:18:34 AM
NO, I didn't !....


Hint : I  first raised the issue of how many times they'd met.

The OP  would be better to use his money by regular contributions to her bank account and visits  than lining a language schools pockets... 

He isn't listening to the advice given by someone who knows ...WHAT do you know about the rights of a third nation EU citizen residing in the UK to invite a g/f - they've lived with or the UK immigration rules?


IF you want to help the guy......put a sock in it


this just proves you didn't even read any of his story.  read it again and you'll get what he's talking about.  Put a sock?  Grow up man. You need to listen to people instead of blabbing about.

He already said he doesn't want to go to Russia or Cyprus yet you insist he go there, for what? 

This has nothing to do with inviting her.  She is going on her own accord.  You don't seem to understand that at all.

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 22, 2018, 01:19:39 AM


He isn't listening to the advice given by someone who knows ...



you know, I know, Bo KNOWS diddly
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 22, 2018, 01:46:09 AM
you missed the whole boat.  He isn't even at the stage where it's a relationship.  She is applying for a student visa on her own grounds.  She probably won't even mention GmRod at all in the application.  She is there to simply study. What she does on her private time is her own business.

You're thinking about sponsoring or spousal visas. Not student visas.

True, but the emphasis will then be solely on her to prove financial standing and by UK standards she has none. She has no job and if she got one would have to stay in it a while then give it up if she was coming here for a month/several months. I get the impression like many FSU female jobs it would be a low paying job. I also get the impression that her whole family are not wealthy. If she does not own her own place than that's another mark against her. Plus she still needs to prove that she will go back home at the end of her studies. She needs to show that she has thousands of pounds in 'her' banK account to support herself. She can't say I'm living with so and so for free as the moment she does they will want to know all about him and what type of relationship they have together. If she witholds information on this relationship during the application or lies about the nature of the relationship and they find out it will not look god and likely be a refusal, etc. So she is stucK with showing she has thousands in her bank account. Rod would have to send her the money for the course or again if they see that he is paying they will want to know the 'relationship' there i.e why is this guy paying for your course?

If she can get somewhere where it is just a month or two course then this might reduce the expense a bit. A six month course is likely to be expensive both for the cost and the support she would have to show. I am somewhat familiar with  Kaplan as I used to work in a uni where they were based. Got the impression they were a market leader but expensive as a result. Will be good to hear what you find on this Rod.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 02:06:09 AM
Trench,

You are spouting bollox, too

You know b/all about this  subject and have NO experience  - so butt out
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 22, 2018, 02:24:20 AM

My Cyprus 'suggestion' was a good way to get her to the UK - be allowed to work / study - whatever you / she dreams.


Ahem... you mean my idea from last year Mobers :D Yes in theory it is a good idea as I thought when I looked into it. The problem is that foreigners don't seem to be able to grasp that, my last girl didn't, Rod doesn't and I doubt his girl would if he mentioned it to her. She would probably have an adverse reaction to it. You see I don't think many foreigners with the exception of US, AUS & Canada really get how intricate our border control/immigration system is. They don't get that often you have to go for work arounds that may take time, be costly and mean doing peculiar things. To them they don't understand this and can't see why you just can't fill out a form and boom, you're in. As you and I know the UK border force/immigration system does not work like that, or at least not for the not so wealthy.

Rod, you are right on one point and that is that Cyprus could end up a holiday situation where you quite logically want a domestic one, it may also be somewhat expensive and if you did get over the holiday situation to agree to live there together you would probably need a job or exhaust your funds. I have tried this route and unless you have a girl that is unusually open minded for a FSW/or obsessively in love with you she will be disturbed by the suggestion and you'll have just paid for a holiday together, hopefully a nice one. I would suggest if you go this route to suggest the whole intention of living together after the holiday upfront, if its a no go with her then at least you haven't had to pay a load of money for a holiday for the two of you. Oh, and you'll be footing the bill for her the whole way too, FSW are like a dead weight in that respect, dragging your finances ever downwards, lol.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 22, 2018, 02:39:35 AM

Tourist - Apparently the hardest, but best, because it can allow her to stay up to 6 months at a time, and allows multiply entry until the visa expires. But I'm not going for this one because she can't prove financial condition to support herself here, and if I try to do it as a sponsor, I believe it will become suspicious that we have an agenda (which, honestly, we do).


Yes, I kind of get the impression there is more going on here than meets the eye because of your insistence of finding the most expedient cost effective route to getting her in the UK. I can't believe you are doing all of this then if you get on after the 6 months or whatever she is going to freely go home. What would be the plan in this case, shot gun wedding, anchor baby, illegal overstay?

You've already stated you can't live in Russia & she has little to keep her there by the sounds of it.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 02:50:50 AM
Ahem... you mean my idea from last year Mobers :D Yes in theory it is a good idea as I thought when I looked into it.

Once again, there is no need to keep proving how STUPID you are,,, Are you a third country EU national living / working in the EU ?


No.. so my info DOESN'T apply to a UK citizen - so STOP polluting the thread with bollox



 
Rod, you are right on one point and that is that Cyprus could end up a holiday situation where you quite logically want a domestic one, it may also be somewhat expensive and if you did get over the holiday situation to agree to live there together you would probably need a job or exhaust your funds. I have tried this route and unless you have a girl that is unusually open minded for a FSW/or obsessively in love with you she will be disturbed by the suggestion and you'll have just paid for a holiday together, hopefully a nice one. I would suggest if you go this route to suggest the whole intention of living together after the holiday upfront, if its a no go with her then at least you haven't had to pay a load of money for a holiday for the two of you. Oh, and you'll be footing the bill for her the whole way too, FSW are like a dead weight in that respect, dragging your finances ever downwards, lol.

More misogynist twaddle and inaccuracy ..

1/ The OP has met the lass - he seeks a way to get her in the UK to try living together

2/  Flts from Moscow are c.£50 - Visas free and quick - accommodation cheap and they will be 'clocking up' time together....  Rod could even open up a CY bank account and put money in for her  -  she could study there...

The WHOLE point is that getting her to the UK needs time - to build up a record of stability re finances and relationship ..Unlike some nations having a relationship does not 'scare' the UK Visa folk.... they want to see it is genuine and financial support and proof of togetherness ( time together, financial ties) over a period of some time..six months 
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 22, 2018, 03:22:24 AM
msmob did you not get from GM Rod's tone that he is adamant against going to Russia or Cyprus.  He wants her to go to the UK. that's it.

He needs to work and find a job.  How is he gonna be able to go for interviews or work in Cyprus.  He needs to spend money to live there.

He's not gonna waste 1 or 2 months having an extended holiday there.  Then they are back to square one.  He'll return to the UK, she'll go back to Russia, then what? 

Seems you take things personal when people disagree with you.  Work on the anger man. It's just a forum with strangers who have absolutely no impact on your own life. 

I guess I'm lucky with my Canadian passport I can visit the UK with no visa or nothing.  Although London is really the only place in the UK worth visiting.

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 22, 2018, 03:24:39 AM
Sting is right: You guys aren't paying attention.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 03:44:36 AM
msmob did you not get from GM Rod's tone that he is adamant against going to Russia or Cyprus.  He wants her to go to the UK. that's it.

IF you'd paid attention - which you clearly haven't been - I'm trying to point out to Rod why / how to re-evaluate - otherwise his goal won't happen - AGAIN - you are making noise re something you know bugger all about ....

He needs to work and find a job.  How is he gonna be able to go for interviews or work in Cyprus.  He needs to spend money to live there.

I 'missed' where I suggested he found work in CY..

While he is working in the UK - he seems 'happy' to give money to a educate the lass - not that she'll get a UK student Visa based on her current situ as he describes ..so why not use it to do both educate her and make a path to UK visits.. 

He's not gonna waste 1 or 2 months having an extended holiday there.  Then they are back to square one.  He'll return to the UK, she'll go back to Russia, then what? 

God, you REALLY don't read .....  He CANNOT get her TO the UK ..... he has to build -up her financial situation - AND demonstrate they are in a relationship - but 'forced' to live apart by work/ visa restrictions

Seems you take things personal when people disagree with you.  Work on the anger man. It's just a forum with strangers who have absolutely no impact on your own life. 

I'm angry - yes - at UTTER IDIOTS posting bollox advice and misleading the OP.....  and yes ...that's YOU ....

I guess I'm lucky with my Canadian passport I can visit the UK with no visa or nothing.  Although London is really the only place in the UK worth visiting.

1/ Well, THAT was 'helpful' ( not) and this isn't about you ..The OP can RESIDE and WORK in the UK without a Visa... you CANNOT .... his question is how to get his g/f to the UK ...

2/ If 'London' is the only place worth visiting in the UK - to you - I can only wonder at your 'taste' .... but I suspect that was just a little troll ...   For whatever reason the OP has chosen to live here and I'm trying to HELP him improve the chances of getting his g/f here ...   

YOUR 'contributions' have been misleading and unhelpful - so please - if you want to start a thread about 'Moby's anger issues' - fine .... THIS thread should be about FACTUAL info ..

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 03:58:21 AM
Sting is right: You guys aren't paying attention.

Rod

Question -

 do you want to get your g/f in the UK ?   Ans: YES

YOU aren't paying attention - sorry ....

IF her situ is as you have described it and you aren't prepared to listen to advice from someone who really does know and worn the same t-shirt as you  - you will simply piss your money away.

I'm pretty certain you aren't getting it ...  she must have a bank account - show six months records or her parents must 'sponsor' her showing their records - if you want to go the student Visa route ....

You've a wait ahead and I find it BIZARRE that you'd not want to spend time with her - it can't be the UK, right now - and you could be working as a team -  working to your goals

Do you think you'd be 'wasting money ' ? 

If so - stop now -  this venture isn't cheap








Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 22, 2018, 04:52:40 AM
Ok no.

I've never said I don't wanna spend time with her.
I've only stated I want that, but HERE.

Now, you guys are sticking to the fact that the only reason I won't go to Russia (or Cyprus for that matter) is because I don't WANT to.
This isn't true. I've stated, even if I wanted to do that, I can't, because I'll be working here soon, which means I have to um, actually show up for work every day.

She DOES have a job, by the way. She just started last week, but a job nonetheless.
Now, they have to pay her somehow, and typically companies do this through a BANK ACCOUNT.
Now, this is Russia we're talking about so I compare it to Brazil in saying: Maybe not, who knows.

In any case, I'm instructing her to open one anyway, and drop her payments in there in case that's not how the company is paying her.
When the school here in the UK gets back to me with more information about how to go about it, I can follow the guidelines posted here (roughly £1k for each month she's here, on top of the actual school costs), and drop some extra £ into her account so she can then apply "by herself" (not really) for a student visa.

The only part I will be involved in that, as far as UK immigration is concerned, is that she won't need lodging since she will be staying with me while she's here.

I guess it's clearer now?
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 22, 2018, 05:01:56 AM
Nah dude you totally missed the boat.  You still haven't understood a thing the OP said.

You're so wrapped up about demonstrating that they show a relationship.  No need.  On a student or visitor visa they don't care about any relationship.  Just that the person has enough funds to support themselves.

The OP could wire her money so she has proof in her Russian bank account. 

Do you think many other people in the same situation would suggest what you are?  Of course not. 

And you have this REALLY annoying habit of capitalizing a word, as if to scream your point across.  Like a petulant child who is being ignored.

You're 60 years old or so right?  Calling strangers "idiots" and "stupid" on a forum shows your maturity level.  It doesn't bother me if you're mad or angry.  Just like a fart in the wind gone in a few seconds.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 22, 2018, 05:12:41 AM
GM Rod- Yeah putting money into her account would help.  Just a matter of how much you trust her and if she'll "steal" it or not return it back.
That's a matter between you and her.

I don't know if the immigration people will question who she's staying with.  Will they consider you just a "friend" or since you are a guy will they ask if there is a relationship and if that's the main reason for her coming.  So look into that further. 

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 05:21:58 AM

I guess it's clearer now?

Rod, it was clear that she worked and that her money might have been 'on the black' paid cash in hand and that she didn't have a bank account

What you STILL haven't'got' is that  you suggesting that you will be providing her accommodation means that your involvement will be looked at  - your capacity to support her and your relationship 'status' as she will be relying on you and what happens  if you 'don't get on' ...?

You REALLY DO  need to find a way be together, beforehand - even if it's for some long weekends  - as you are NOT going to convince a Visa officer that staying with someone she met some time ago - eliminates the risk of her being able to support herself and overstaying . This means you will have to support her application showing your bank statements and involvement in her stay .

What  you want and what is necessary to achieve are at odds ..You are going to have to re-evaluate





Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 22, 2018, 05:35:40 AM

 If 'London' is the only place worth visiting in the UK - to you - I can only wonder at your 'taste' .... but I suspect that was just a little troll ...

No troll.  Edinburgh,Glasgow or Dublin may possibly be worth a visit. 

I've seen and lived in major cities in Russia, Europe, North America and Asia.  Apart from London which I have fondness for as I lived there, I really didn't have any desire to see the rest of the UK.

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 05:40:21 AM
No troll.  Edinburgh,Glasgow or Dublin may possibly be worth a visit. 

Aha so Dublin's in the 'UK', now ... 

I've seen and lived in major cities in Russia, Europe, North America and Asia.  Apart from London which I have fondness for as I lived there, I really didn't have any desire to see the rest of the UK.

Yes, yes, we can see how 'well travelled' you were - given THAT howler re Dublin ))

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 05:45:47 AM
GM Rod- Yeah putting money into her account would help.  Just a matter of how much you trust her and if she'll "steal" it or not return it back.
That's a matter between you and her.

More 'noise' ..

If he is prepared to invest her education - it is clear he trusts her


I don't know if the immigration people will question who she's staying with.  Will they consider you just a "friend" or since you are a guy will they ask if there is a relationship and if that's the main reason for her coming.  So look into that further.

The "I don't know" was the only accurate part of that paragraph

By Rod's offer of free accommodation on any Study route application he becomes involved

The Visa officer will want to know his ability to support her and what happens if they 'fall out' - hence demonstrating a relationship being important

This is 101 stuff - if you know what you're talking about ,,,,
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 22, 2018, 06:01:35 AM
msmob if you got all the answers why don't you charge a flat rate for advice to GM ROD and see if he takes up your offer.

I just lump all the countries in the UK together, easier that way. Scotland,Wales, Northern Ireland, Ireland...what's the big dif. It ain't like North and South Korea or maybe it is. I don't care. Not gonna go there anyways. 

First Scotland wanted out of the UK with their referendum and then the whole Brexit disaster.  Your own people don't even know who their allegiances are for.

You Scotish or Irish? Can't remember.



Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 06:12:22 AM
msmob if you got all the answers why don't you charge a flat rate for advice to GM ROD and see if he takes up your offer.

AGAIN, inattentive ?  I clearly stated it was FREE  ...  I'm very happy to report I've helped many people get their non-EU partner to the UK ... never asked for a penny

I just lump all the countries in the UK together, easier that way. Scotland,Wales, Northern Ireland, Ireland...what's the big dif. It ain't like North and South Korea or maybe it is. I don't care. Not gonna go there anyways. 

You are clogging up this thread with your 'knowledge' ...  Dublin is NOT in the UK .....  Based on your howler - it is clear you didn't travel  the UK / Ireland as much as you suggest - meaning your 'travel advice' sucks as much as your UK immigration knowledge

First Scotland wanted out of the UK with their referendum and then the whole Brexit disaster.  Your own people don't even know who their allegiances are for.

You Scotish or Irish? Can't remember.

And this isn't trolling ?

1/ If Scotland wanted out of the UK -  they'd have voted as such  - unlike the EU referendum the options of leaving were made clear and understood

2/ If you are suggesting the UK voter wasn't too clued up re the 'Brexit' vote - who am I to disagree ?

3/  If you paid attention - you'd know ..I hold dual nationality- IRL/ UK  -hence I was able to bring my Wife / Step-son to the UK using the EU immigration route ( now closed if holding a UK passport, too )

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 22, 2018, 06:32:31 AM
Why would I pay attention to your nationality, I just know you're from the UK by your profile flag.  I could care less where you are from to be honest. 

And there you go not even reading what I write.  I said apart from London (and Dover if you really wanna be specific) I have not been anywhere else in the UK nor have any desire to. 

Now have you ever been to Canada, America, Asia?  My guess is no.  I bet I've even been to more places in Europe than you.

Your situation and his are completely different.  He is not looking to bring her over as a wife or fiancee.  They are at stage 1. Get it?!  Clearly not.

Peace out bruh. Aight. Don't make me speak ghetto. Now keep it 100 dawg.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 07:03:41 AM
Why would I pay attention to your nationality, I just know you're from the UK by your profile flag.  I could care less where you are from to be honest. 

1/ You asked ..?

2/ My nationaliTES ( The EU one) allowed me to use the very processes I'm suggesting to Rod ?

IF you understood this thread - you'd have got why it's relevant .... 

And there you go not even reading what I write.  I said apart from London (and Dover if you really wanna be specific) I have not been anywhere else in the UK nor have any desire to. 

So, you really see no irony in the last sentence ? You having been so 'attentive''?  NOW, you're admitting you haven't even seen the vast part of the UK and haven't even been to places you 'recommend' or 'don't' ....

You are just proving the 'value' of your 'expertise' ...

Now have you ever been to Canada, America, Asia?  My guess is no.  I bet I've even been to more places in Europe than you.

Best not to guess ... this IS a silly pissing competition - and bears no relevance to the thread

I have been to every EU nation - currently 28 - save  for - to my shame - Italy

I have been to 15 US states

Never been to Canada, yet

Asia: Thailand, Cambodia, Laos, Malaysia, Vietnam, China, Singapore, Hong Kong

Does this help Rod?

Mods ... could I beg  this off-topic daftness goes to blah,blah - it has B all to do with Rod's question





Your situation and his are completely different.  He is not looking to bring her over as a wife or fiancee.  They are at stage 1. Get it?!  Clearly not.


So, how DO you think my then fiancee got a (then) Tourist  - six month unlimited entry -  Visa to the UK ? 

A: We used the UK visa route ...in the first instance... We subsequently used the EU route to get her residency .

REALLY - does your STUPIDITY/ INATTENTIVENESS  know no bounds ?  ( upper case intended )
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 22, 2018, 07:17:05 AM
So I want to ask you guys to go fight in private if that's your pleasure....

As far as this thread goes, it's MY thread. Let's focus on my stuff.

I do find it hilarious to watch you guys bicker, but it'll make it harder for other people to read.

So, yes, I've considered the option of us "falling out".
And I'm aware that, if we do it in a scenario where I'm responsible for her in any way, I become involved, obviously.
This is why I want to show immigration that there's money on BOTH accounts, mine and hers, along with the receipt of the English course already paid for.
To cover every possible scenario and assure she's going back to Russia at the end of the course no matter what. THIS is what immigration will consider most important, right?
Prior to coming to the UK, I was supposed to go to school in Canada but they denied my student visa for this very reason. They weren't convinced I was gonna leave after. Which is fair because I really planned on staying ;-)
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 07:32:23 AM
So I want to ask you guys to go fight in private if that's your pleasure....


As far as this thread goes, it's MY thread. Let's focus on my stuff

I do find it hilarious to watch you guys bicker, but it'll make it harder for other people to read.
.

You'll note I pointed this out and I'm sure your wish will be granted

What is REALLY worrying is that you STILL - despite a refusal of your own - STILL think you'll get a UK visa for her  based on Study - if your g/f  and you haven't spent time together in a considerable period

Why ARE you stubbornly refusing to listen ? 

You must do considerably more - to prove to any Visa officer she is not 'at risk' of being in the UK without accommodation - esp. if you haven't proven a relationship

Could I suggest you check your Q on this forum ?:

http://www.immigrationboards.com
 (http://www.immigrationboards.com)

You might respect the advice - if you keep getting the same answer ;)
 











Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 22, 2018, 08:00:11 AM
hey sorry GM Rod. yes it is your thread.  Keep it on topic.

msmob has a bad habit of quoting EVERY comment someone makes and having to respond.  Childish. 

Btw good choice in trying to come to Canada!  But if you overstayed your student visa it could be trouble.


On another note, is your Russian girl that trusting to live with you even if you have only met for a week in real life? 

That would be more of a red flag for immigration, as they would start to question what your relationship is already like.

It could be a better idea if she rents a place for a few months first then moves in with you after.  It would cost more of course but then it shows she isn't reliant on you from day 1. 
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Davo2 on January 22, 2018, 08:00:51 AM
This may not be applicable because it's a tourist visa and not for the UK, but similar regarding sponsored accommodation.

The advice I was given by the visa department was.... If I was offering sponsored  accommodation, in a private residence as a "friend", I needed to supply pay slips from my work, a bank statement showing regular payments, my rental agreement or proof of home ownership, my birth certificate or other ID, a letter of invitation detailing the dates she would be staying at my address and also my relationship to her. On her behalf, she needed to show she had enough money in her bank to provide her own accommodation should my offer be withdrawn, once she arrived.
So quite possibly you may be scrutinized quite heavily.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 22, 2018, 08:09:59 AM
You'll note I pointed this out and I'm sure your wish will be granted

What is REALLY worrying is that you STILL - despite a refusal of your own - STILL think you'll get a UK visa for her  based on Study - if your g/f  and you haven't spent time together in a considerable period

Why ARE you stubbornly refusing to listen ? 

You must do considerably more - to prove to any Visa officer she is not 'at risk' of being in the UK without accommodation - esp. if you haven't proven a relationship

Could I suggest you check your Q on this forum ?:

http://www.immigrationboards.com
 (http://www.immigrationboards.com)

You might respect the advice - if you keep getting the same answer ;)
 

Here's why I'm being resistant to your suggestion:

What if she didn't know me at all?
How do people who just wanna come study here on their own, do it?

You're stating that I will have to prove relationship status and consistency, in any option I choose, including student visa.
I don't think that's true. That's why.

Maybe I'm just a do-gooder trying to help a girl get an education and visit the UK at the same time... a girl who I happen to have met a couple years ago and am now intending to BUILD a relationship with, what's wrong with that?
A lot of my friends back in the US got american friends to sign their artist visas (it's also called self-employed visa), so they could stay in the country. I wasn't so lucky... but good hearted people do exist, although rare.

The video someone posted here shows a transgender person getting in the UK to visit a friend, who is paying for his(her?) expenses. She tells the immigration officer directly that they're doing cocaine and heroine, and opening a brothel (!!!). Obviously poking fun, and also it's a show which usually means it's not really happening, but... if THAT person can get approved, then even considering that's a show, my GF who actually wants to study here has a good chance. Lol
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Davo2 on January 22, 2018, 08:39:45 AM
They may want to see a relationship for any number of reasons.

Lots of women travel to work as escorts illegally, after meeting their employer briefly on scouting trips. For all they know you might be a pimp running an illegal brothel from your house.

A solid relationship means there is less likelihood of her taking advantage of you. I would say our visa department look at this issue seriously. On our Russian visa advice page it states clearly that you could be the victim of a scam.  I'm not saying your woman is, but again they don't know that.

There may be many reasons that we have no idea about 
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 22, 2018, 08:42:25 AM
They may want to see a relationship for any number of reasons.  Lots of women travel to work as escorts illegally, after meeting their employer briefly on scouting trips. For all they know you might be a pimp running an illegal brothel from your house.

A big one in Australia is a solid relationship means there is less like hood of her taking advantage of you. On our Russian visa advice page it states clearly that you could be the victim of a scam. I'm not saying your woman is, but again they don't know that.

There may be many reasons that we have no idea about

I get where this is coming from, and I bet it does happen all the time.
But hey, they're free to look into ALL my stuff, I have nothing to hide... And I'm sure, because this happens so much, they're trained to be able to interview such girls and tell what their intentions are. My girl is too shy and sweet to even come close to that kind of thing. I'm not worried about that lol.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: 2tallbill on January 22, 2018, 09:12:18 AM
What  you want and what is necessary to achieve are at odds ..You are going to have to re-evaluate

I want my wife to be the next Queen of the UK! Don't tell me that
I might be getting ahead of myself buying drapes that match her
eyes for Buckingham palace, everyone should consider is that I
really, really like the fabric and that she has very pretty eyes!!

That was a joke boys and girls, I will go participate in a thread(s)
that I know more about. 

Udachi!

Bill
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 22, 2018, 09:42:16 AM
The video someone posted here shows a transgender person getting in the UK to visit a friend, who is paying for his(her?) expenses. She tells the immigration officer directly that they're doing cocaine and heroine, and opening a brothel (!!!). Obviously poking fun, and also it's a show which usually means it's not really happening, but... if THAT person can get approved, then even considering that's a show, my GF who actually wants to study here has a good chance. Lol

Some entertainment, visa-free Canadian though. :P

Keep in mind as I mentioned earlier, that video was the case of a visa-free Canadian entering the UK. However, you can at least get a feel as to what goes on at Border Control.

The point of a general visa for students in this case, is so that she'll be able to get into the UK without necessarily proving any prior relationship with you whilst staying at her accommodation, possibly arranged by the school or by her with a third party like your landlord. Then she can stay for as long as the duration of her course, living with you as a housemate. She can then open a UK bank account as well, with the help of her school letter.

Like all visa applications, she will still need to prove that she can financially support herself (i.e cash in the bank) or maybe support from her parents, uncle, relatives etc and that she will leave by the end of her course.

Ultimately, it is still way cheaper to fly to see her first, establish the "time together" and then get her back into the UK. "Official" Language schools in the UK aren't cheap and for that price, you can afford to fly to see her every once in awhile.

msmob has his points. If the end game is to get married as husband and wife, why go through so much trouble for a student visa when you can bring her in as a tourist friend once you've established "time together" elsewhere? Are you both in such a hurry to meet in the UK?  :rolleyes:
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 09:45:54 AM
Here's why I'm being resistant to your suggestion:

What if she didn't know me at all?
How do people who just wanna come study here on their own, do it?

She would rely on her parents financials to pay for the lot  - her showing a job and paying in money would show stability

Your question is EXACTLY what many of us have been thinking - and the UK Visa authorities will be wondering - you are putting a lot of faith in her by offering to pay the fees and  accommodation


You're stating that I will have to prove relationship status and consistency, in any option I choose, including student visa.
I don't think that's true. That's why.

I cannot emphasise that enough - it'll be YOUR issue if you don't believe it !

Whatever you do - do not give false info - you might get the Visa  - but a border control officer might ask an awkward question and still refuse entry

Maybe I'm just a do-gooder trying to help a girl get an education and visit the UK at the same time... a girl who I happen to have met a couple years ago and am now intending to BUILD a relationship with, what's wrong with that?

I'm not going to judge you - I'm telling you are things are with UK immigration

A lot of my friends back in the US got american friends to sign their artist visas (it's also called self-employed visa), so they could stay in the country. I wasn't so lucky... but good hearted people do exist, although rare.

1/ this is not the US - you CAN have a relationship with someone and get a visa to visit them to see how you'll get on

2/ I've no doubt you are all you say you are and the lass, too - but you've got to convince the immigration authorities - who've seen such arrangements go badly wrong


The video someone posted here shows a transgender person getting in the UK to visit a friend, who is paying for his(her?) expenses. She tells the immigration officer directly that they're doing cocaine and heroine, and opening a brothel (!!!). Obviously poking fun, and also it's a show which usually means it's not really happening, but... if THAT person can get approved, then even considering that's a show, my GF who actually wants to study here has a good chance. Lol

As you realise the  border control folk decided she was kidding - her sponsor clearly had demonstrated the funds to support the stay.

I'm sorry you don't want to accept how it is / will be ..  If I'm wrong  I'll be happy for you first and want to know how you managed  it secondly - so post on here

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 09:56:36 AM

msmob has his points. If the end game is to get married as husband and wife, why go through so much trouble for a student visa when you can bring her in as a tourist friend once you've established "time together" elsewhere? Are you both in such a hurry to meet in the UK?  :rolleyes:

'Thanks', I think, Kyn ;)

My 'points' applied whether Rod is simply trying to get her here and then see how it goes or a longer game .

IF 'they' go the study route - they'd  be far better to persuade her parents to sponsor her and use the study centre approved  accommodation

Rod should keep out of it - other than stumping up the cash

This assumes stability re the parents and the lass opening a bank account  AND paying in a regular salary.

Her visiting and departing ( e,g Cyprus) another EU nation would show she obeys Visa rules



Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 22, 2018, 09:59:26 AM
Oh no... I don't plan on giving false info at all.

I just acknowledge that it's hard to believe someone would pay for someone else's studies after being with them for only a week 2 years ago.
But, as far as I can prove I CAN do it and that she's got enough evidence to support she's actually going back after... I should be fine.

Now it's a matter of obtaining such evidence.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 22, 2018, 10:00:51 AM
The parents are not an option. They are separated, and the last time I was there, I met the mom.
She's DIRT POOR. Dad is not much better off.

So that's not a path for us.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 10:11:20 AM

msmob has a bad habit of quoting EVERY comment someone makes and having to respond.  Childish. 

If 'Childish' is highlighting why Rod would be MAD to listen to your 'advice' on UK immigration / places to see - I'm certainly not apologised for pointing out your mistakes...not one of which you had the grace to simply admit to, gracefully and BUTT out of a subject  you brought nothing but confusion via inaccuracies




On another note, is your Russian girl that trusting to live with you even if you have only met for a week in real life? 

That would be more of a red flag for immigration, as they would start to question what your relationship is already like.

My God, Stinger - what DO you think I've been saying - somewhat more diplomatically - you simply don't READ..

It could be a better idea if she rents a place for a few months first then moves in with you after.  It would cost more of course but then it shows she isn't reliant on you from day 1.

Correct - if Rod stays out of the picture re the Visa application, completely

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 10:16:23 AM
The parents are not an option. They are separated, and the last time I was there, I met the mom.
She's DIRT POOR. Dad is not much better off.

So that's not a path for us.

Right, Rod

Than I'm sorry - but your ONLY option is building up her fiances ( six months wait )  and you choose whether to show she will support herself - no' free accommodation'  from you  or you just bite on it and build up your relationship - knowing the money spend on meetings will be saved in paying rent for a second place

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 22, 2018, 02:44:16 PM
Oh no... I don't plan on giving false info at all.

I just acknowledge that it's hard to believe someone would pay for someone else's studies after being with them for only a week 2 years ago.
 

I agree with you...I think everyone here agrees with you. I think the whole world would agree with you( including immigration).


But, as far as I can prove I CAN do it and that she's got enough evidence to support she's actually going back after... I should be fine.

First, find the job then you can prove income. You've been in UK since September and no work?

Second, WHAT evidence is there this girl will go back to Russia. There is really nothing there for her. Makes me wonder if her need to leave Russia is far greater than need to be with you.

 In re: sending girl money. Will questions arise where money came from. I know they go back of few months in statements.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 22, 2018, 03:32:57 PM
First, find the job then you can prove income. You've been in UK since September and no work?

Well. You have to understand I'm a MUSICIAN.
Finding a day job when you're 36 and you've only played music for your entire life, when you're a foreigner in a new country with NO connections, can be a bit tricky, all right?
Even if you have an audio engineering diploma from the best school in the world, it's still a MUSIC school.
So there.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 22, 2018, 04:27:47 PM
Well. You have to understand I'm a MUSICIAN.
Finding a day job when you're 36 and you've only played music for your entire life, when you're a foreigner in a new country with NO connections, can be a bit tricky, all right?
Even if you have an audio engineering diploma from the best school in the goddamn world, it's still a MUSIC school.
So there.

Well Rod you could try the quaint English tradition of Busking or join a pub band ;D

It looks to me that your options are becoming limited with regards to getting her a study visa for the UK. Border control might well scrutinise where she got the money from if her bank statement entries have rise to this being queried. Also, the fact that many FSU folk don't have bank accounts is due in part to the black economy. If money is going into or has money in her account her Gov may wonder where this has come from since she pays no taxes from any job known to them. You may squeeze this all through but even then you are entrusting a girl with probably at least around £5k or more of your money. She could drop communication with you at any time and keep it all. She could keep on asking you for more for this or that made up 'plausible' reason giving you the choice of being suckered in for more or calling it a day. To my mind you could face hurdle after hurdle and get snared on this or that matter by border control.

If you have been unemployed since September then I would wait to see if you get work this next week or so and if not go meet her. That or just email off the places you applied for with your holiday dates for a week or two weeks or whatever and just go to see her. An apartment on the outskirts of Moscow will not be all that expensive. Remember you have only met this girl for a week 2 years ago, that is very little record to trust her with all that money. Her and her parentS being from a dirt poor background is going to be very tempting for them to keep that money - which is worth a lot more there than here. It could go a good way towards buying a cheap apartment or whatever out there. She could message other men just like that.

Personally I think you are giving yourself a greater ordeal by going the UK visa route. It would be less fuss if you forgot caring about a job and just went out there. In the UK an interview means relatively little, loads of people often turn up to them/given one. I would not put attending an interview as a higher priority in this instance. The UK employment market can be difficult so don't expect any job this week, next week, it comes when it comes, it's just the way it is.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 04:38:15 PM
Oh dear, Trench is  now posting 'advice', again ... 

Tell us, oh 'expert', how Rod, will get his g/f into the UK - without - initially using the UK route - unless he is married to her?

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 22, 2018, 04:53:45 PM
Oh dear, Trench is  now posting 'advice', again ... 

Tell us, oh 'expert', how Rod, will get his g/f into the UK - without - initially using the UK route - unless he is married to her?

Mobe most of the advice I gave earlier which you knocked you then went on to say the exact same thing to Rod. Are you sure you don't have a mental health problem Moby we may call it expertosis - a psychopathic tendancy to needing to be seen as the expert in all things ;D

Rod, while I'm replying I recall you mentioning that video posted up earlier. Please note that the woman was Canadian so qualifies for visa-free. Under visa-free she will still face scrutiny if border control become suspicious of something about her but she will not be under the same rules as a person with a visa - she would have not had to apply for or supply the info needed for a visa. It is a lot easier regime and it means stuff that they may have sent her back for with a visa doesn't count so much under visa-free. She almost has a right as any other visa-free traveller for entry into the UK unless they find a real compelling reason not to. That's why she was allowed in.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 05:09:32 PM
Mobe most of the advice I gave earlier which you knocked you then went on to say the exact same thing to Rod.

No.. I was consistent in my advice... Let's test the theory - tell us the UK / EU legislation on which the current UK / EU routes to immigration are based ? 

Did you read the white papers before they came into law ..   ? Comment on possible issues?

Which Govt Ombudsmen have written to you - pointing out you knew the immigration law - better than their officers / legal team when agreeing compo for encroaching on our freedom of movement ?   Tell us when you got a nation to open a Consulate and make a Visa - as you were about to test their wrong interpretation of an EU 'must do' ?

Are you sure you don't have a mental health problem Moby we may call it expertosis - a psychopathic tendancy to needing to be seen as the expert in all things ;D

You might possibly accelerate the onset of Mental Health problems in others...  but in the meantime ... please do try to demonstrate your 'skills'

Rod, while I'm replying I recall you mentioning that video posted up earlier. Please note that the woman was Canadian so qualifies for visa-free. Under visa-free she will still face scrutiny if border control become suspicious of something about her but she will not be under the same rules as a person with a visa - she would have not had to apply for or supply the info needed for a visa. It is a lot easier regime and it means stuff that they may have sent her back for with a visa doesn't count so much under visa-free. She almost has a right as any other visa-free traveller for entry into the UK unless they find a real compelling reason not to. That's why she was allowed in.

Oh dear, Trench - you just keep on 'giving' ..

A Canadian wishing to work / setting up a biz /  for more than  WOULD need a Visa..

"You don't need a visa for some business and academic visits, but you must get a visa to work in the UK."

http://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/canada/work/six_months_or_less (http://www.gov.uk/check-uk-visa/y/canada/work/six_months_or_less)

Even if a Canadian pitched up to study - they'd need to prove that they are studying at an approved institution and have the funds to support themselves

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 22, 2018, 05:25:59 PM
Mobe if you want to bore the pants of yourself and those around you by reading 'white papers', legislation word by word and all the other fuddy duddy stuff you like to do along those lines that few others would want the ordeal of bothering with go for it. I can only wonder you're possibly at some point to be ex-wife enjoyed it so immensely she saw fit to file for divorce which you were no doubt 'expert' on also. Living with such an 'expert' must have been a real joy for her that SC will no doubt find a joy too once it comes out while she's around ;D

Rod is not looking to get into a legal battle here to make case law legal history, he just want s to get with this girl. An English guy such as myself that is on the level of day to day familiarity of how the system works is the type of advice he is looking for. It's clear where he stands and too be honest the poor financial status of himself, his girl and her parents makes even the student visa look a stretch and a doubtful option. I personally think its not a good idea for him to try for it and gave him my perspective on it all, its really up to him.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 22, 2018, 07:49:15 PM
Border control might well scrutinise where she got the money from if her bank statement entries have rise to this being queried. Also, the fact that many FSU folk don't have bank accounts is due in part to the black economy. If money is going into or has money in her account her Gov may wonder where this has come from since she pays no taxes from any job known to them.

You may squeeze this all through but even then you are entrusting a girl with probably at least around £5k or more of your money. She could drop communication with you at any time and keep it all. She could keep on asking you for more for this or that made up 'plausible' reason giving you the choice of being suckered in for more or calling it a day. To my mind you could face hurdle after hurdle and get snared on this or that matter by border control.

Well. You have to understand I'm a MUSICIAN.
Finding a day job when you're 36 and you've only played music for your entire life, when you're a foreigner in a new country with NO connections, can be a bit tricky, all right?
Even if you have an audio engineering diploma from the best school in the goddamn world, it's still a MUSIC school.
So there.

I do not think it's likely that this lady is a scammer. That said, I would have to agree with part of what Trench posted here, that IF you are still adamant on sending her money overseas, PLEASE PLEASE think this through carefully mate.

IF she turns out to be a scammer, the money flies out the window. IF she changes her mind or visa application fails, your money may become STUCK in Russia, at the least, especially if she has other plans for it. You have all the money to lose and nothing to gain.

Downside -100% of money. Upside, successful UK entry. Limit that downside!

Seriously consider all options (I.e paying for her deposits or school fees on her behalf straightaway in the UK rather than putting them into her bank account in Russia).

This is potentially £1000s of pounds. At your age, and unemployed, I do not think you can afford too many mistakes.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 22, 2018, 09:43:28 PM
She may not be a scammer per se but if she is from a poor background and thousands of pounds start falling into her lap that she did not even ask for in the first place she may decide she has better uses for it than 'an English course in the UK, especially if the visa fails - in that case she will likely keep the money. Paying first for the course is not a great idea, if she can't get the visa its wasted money and if she has a change of heart its wasted money. The rest I think you are right on Kyn, he needs to think carefully before going the student route its likely to sucker in 'all' of his money.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: BillyB on January 22, 2018, 11:37:56 PM
Maybe I'm just a do-gooder trying to help a girl get an education and visit the UK at the same time... a girl who I happen to have met a couple years ago and am now intending to BUILD a relationship with, what's wrong with that?





Don't try to be a hero. Girls over there lived all their lives without you and can continue to live without you. Build the relationship first. Make sure she's interested in you. Don't rush to pay for her education.  Save your money for the girl in your life but first you need to make sure she's in your life.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 23, 2018, 02:00:09 AM
Mobe if you want to bore the pants of yourself and those around you by reading 'white papers', legislation word by word and all the other fuddy duddy stuff you like to do along those lines that few others would want the ordeal of bothering with go for it. I can only wonder you're possibly at some point to be ex-wife enjoyed it so immensely she saw fit to file for divorce which you were no doubt 'expert' on also. Living with such an 'expert' must have been a real joy for her that SC will no doubt find a joy too once it comes out while she's around ;D

So, that'll be - "No Moby" - I'm busted - I haven't the first clue on UK / EU immigration law - compared to you - so I got 'personal' "    I would not want such a riposte to be deleted as it marketh the 'man' !

Rod is not looking to get into a legal battle here to make case law legal history, he just want s to get with this girl. An English guy such as myself that is on the level of day to day familiarity of how the system works is the type of advice he is looking for. It's clear where he stands and too be honest the poor financial status of himself, his girl and her parents makes even the student visa look a stretch and a doubtful option. I personally think its not a good idea for him to try for it and gave him my perspective on it all, its really up to him.

Nice 'speech' - but it doesn't change the FACT - that you've offered up Sh1te 'advice' based on having zip knowledge..

If the likes of you and Stinger hadn't made such diversionary 'noise' - the lad would have grasped that he was in crap street , now - re the UK immigration route.





However, if he is prepared to risk moving to another EU nation - not Portugal - Ireland - they can be together and when she gets her residency - based on his looking for work - they can travel to the UK, together and ultimately look at residing there..

Sorry, Rod ... I was too 'occupied' with the pea-nut gallery, yesterday ... You DO have hope and I have a soft-spot for dreamers ;)

You are welcome to PM me off-board - if you trust me - I'd like to help you, both - if I can

The EU law Trench was clueless about was a Directive ( must do) and it takes precedent over national Immigration law - if you are an EU national - exercising his treaty rights re freedom of Movement


Even if the UK leaves the EU - Irish residents will always be able to live / work in the UK

Here'a the English version of the Directive that can help you, both be together - though in Ireland first - but ultimately, the UK

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32004L0038 (http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A32004L0038)

If you look further down, you'll see it in your native tongue, too

Good luck !

PS  - if this works out - can SC and I come to the wedding ? ;)





 


Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 23, 2018, 02:02:17 AM



Don't try to be a hero. Girls over there lived all their lives without you and can continue to live without you. Build the relationship first. Make sure she's interested in you. Don't rush to pay for her education.  Save your money for the girl in your life but first you need to make sure she's in your life.

Rod, this is something you should bear in mind... but the immigration route I'm suggesting is more or less FREE
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 23, 2018, 06:06:59 AM
Ok first.

The parents are NOT IN THE PICTURE. So scratch that concern about them "keeping the money".

Second.

I can pay for everything without actually transferring money into her account. She just needs to show receipts that everything has been paid for. The only exception would be a place to stay, which obviously, she isn't paying for.

Third.

I AM joining pub bands lol (but I've also passed the first stage of selection for a day job, I'm waiting to be contacted for my interview).

Fourth.

I have been scammed before. More than once. This one is not a scammer.

And finally, I am not being a hero... I'm paying for her studies because it's the easiest way to get here here in our current situation. It's clearly not something I'm doing JUST for her. She never asks me for anything and she never suggests anything. The only thing she did by herself was, she got a job and told me she wants to gather up some money from that, so she can then quit (or convince the boss to give her an early break) to come here when we get her visa.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Jumper on January 23, 2018, 06:42:01 AM
  First, I'm sorry that you can't control what advice you get, those responding will do so to your situation ,not just your specific question.
As long as they do so without violating the TOS, it's open discussion.
 Welcome to the internet.

You can easily disregard any post you don't feel like reading, chances are it is aimed as much towards the guests, than to you.


Second, if you want to convince the forum you cant be scammed , telling that you have been scammed several times prior ,isn't really very convincing .
Regardless what you think ,it doesn't show experience and ability to recognize it in someone you've met briefly,while meeting others also, 2 years ago.

I dont think it's a scam,  just think you dont really know her at all.You know she lived with her parents and their concerns had them   hold her passport(?) prior the last time you saw her, and now shes moved out and they allegedly don't. You say you know for sure,but haven't been there and don't want to ,nor have you communicated over those two years other than recently.

Anyone else coming here with that scenario would get a lot of advice to stop putting the cart in front of the horse.
You'll continue to get that,hopefully, as it's common sense.

As far as getting her a UK visa, all the guys in the UK with past or present russian gf's have given you advice.

On her own merit, it's seems unlikely unless you can build up her assets,and reasons to return.
Even with those in place over time, you have cases posted here of the visa denied.
You act a bit surprised, yet already have  been turned down for a Canadian visa yourself on similar grounds, and with good reason as you said, and you dint plan to honor the visa.
 She is in the exact same scenario, and immigration officers do this for a living, every day ,for years on end.
 They have indeed seen it all.
They have certainly seen plenty of young people with little attachment to their home country ,apply for any type of visa. Its their jib to be certain it's legit and used correctly or to not issue it.
   So you may want to listen to the possible  ways around, from guys who have been thru it,or tried and failed, or decide if some brief  meeting 2 years ago, and some recent contact  is worth all this without seeing her again, even for a weekend.









Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 23, 2018, 07:47:01 AM
Actually, Jumper..  only one UK guy who has ANY experience of bringing a Russian lady here has responded..

The rest was pure conjecture and mainly totally incorrect (

I just hope Rod saw how how he can do this

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 23, 2018, 07:52:20 AM



I can pay for everything without actually transferring money into her account. She just needs to show receipts that everything has been paid for. The only exception would be a place to stay, which obviously, she isn't paying for.

..

I am sorry, Rod but who told you THAT?

It is not true...WHO is giving you this 'advice'?

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 23, 2018, 09:44:03 AM
I am sorry, Rod but who told you THAT?

It is not true...WHO is giving you this 'advice'?



Nobody.
I'm just saying, let's imagine this is happening right now.
Immigration officer is looking at the visa application.
It's a request for a student visa.
It mentions the school, how long she's studying there, and a receipt is attached stating the tuition has been paid.
It also has information on both plane tickets, one here and one to return to Russia.
Lists me as just the person who will be providing accomodation, along with my bank account statements for the past 6 months (and with over £1000 in the account each month, or £3000 in there right now)

So... proof she can pay for the lessons, check (already paid for)
Proof she can sustain herself here (or someone else), check

What is left to deny the application?

Reasons to return to Russia... right?

Her rent lease back home.
I'd say we'd also provide her work contract from her job, but if she quits, then that's not an option.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 23, 2018, 09:51:09 AM
Ok first.

The parents are NOT IN THE PICTURE. So scratch that concern about them "keeping the money".

Second.

I can pay for everything without actually transferring money into her account. She just needs to show receipts that everything has been paid for. The only exception would be a place to stay, which obviously, she isn't paying for.

Third.

I AM joining pub bands lol (but I've also passed the first stage of selection for a day job, I'm waiting to be contacted for my interview).

Fourth.

I have been scammed before. More than once. This one is not a scammer.

And finally, I am not being a hero... I'm paying for her studies because it's the easiest way to get here here in our current situation. It's clearly not something I'm doing JUST for her. She never asks me for anything and she never suggests anything. The only thing she did by herself was, she got a job and told me she wants to gather up some money from that, so she can then quit (or convince the boss to give her an early break) to come here when we get her visa.

I think you are best proceeding with this Rod now as you see fit. I think you have made up your mind that you wish to go the student visa route and I don't think anything anyone says here will alter that. Its your life and you know where you are and what you are doing/want to do. You've decided to go for the visa and involve yourself in the application by her staying with you - I think this could be flagged up and gone into by border control but if you wish to chance it that they will not pay any importance to this then its up to you. So I think you should push on with this now, its clear we have little more to offer you and will just have to see how this goes. How much was the Kaplan course by the way?

The Irish route Moby suggests means staying in Ireland for 5 years to gain Irish citizenship, I get the impression seeing that you have not mentioned it that you don't see yourself in Ireland ;)

Let us know how you get on as this will certainly be an interesting one.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 23, 2018, 10:19:27 AM
Nobody.


Good ... I'd say they shouldn't be posting nonsense...   Have you READ the UK Visa requirements ?

You are thinking like the honest, expectant client - not how the Visa officer is instructed to think

I'm just saying, let's imagine this is happening right now.
Immigration officer is looking at the visa application.
It's a request for a student visa.
It mentions the school, how long she's studying there, and a receipt is attached stating the tuition has been paid.
It also has information on both plane tickets, one here and one to return to Russia.
Lists me as just the person who will be providing accomodation, along with my bank account statements for the past 6 months (and with over £1000 in the account each month, or £3000 in there right now)

So... proof she can pay for the lessons, check (already paid for)
Proof she can sustain herself here (or someone else), check

What is left to deny the application?

Reasons to return to Russia... right?

Her rent lease back home.
I'd say we'd also provide her work contract from her job, but if she quits, then that's not an option.

You've raised a good point...

The rental  - back home.. So, that's going to be yet another outgoing - dead money for you.. Having a rental contract - does not  negate the risk of overstaying in the eyes of a Visa officer - other than showing some stability - combined with the bank statements, etc.

Sorry, Rod, but you're still thinking like how it should be - not how it IS ((

She needs the money to study (pay for the course)  and you're earning WAY below the spousal minimum amount needed to support one partner - and you live in London (?)

You aren't going to make this happen in London with those figures...   

I realise you may come back to me and claim we will only be living together - but you are saying you'll support and educate this lass... the UK route isn't going to work on those numbers(

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 23, 2018, 10:26:41 AM


The Irish route Moby suggests means staying in Ireland for 5 years to gain Irish citizenship, I get the impression seeing that you have not mentioned it that you don't see yourself in Ireland ;)

Let us know how you get on as this will certainly be an interesting one.



Citizenship doesn't come into it .. 

IF Rod exercises his right to live / try to find work ( even if he hasn't, got work, yet) in Ireland and gets Irish Residency - he can find a way - if he listens to me - to bring his g/f to IRL to study ... but she'll be allowed to work, too



IF she has residency in IRL - they can move freely within the CTA UK / IRL

PLE-EASE Trench - stop posting such twaddle - that only proves - if anyone still doubted it - that you post for effect and aren't too bothered if it's factual
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 23, 2018, 10:51:53 AM
I'm not in London.

I'm in Manchester. Which means life is cheaper.

Ireland is not an option, because I'm settling here for a number of reasons.
Besides, staying 5 years is also enough to become a UK citizen HERE, provided I moved before BRExit, which I have (more specifically before March of 2019).
Supporting evidence of this: http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2822423/eu-citizens-uk-after-brexit-freedom-of-movement-visas-immigration-figures-settled-status/ (http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2822423/eu-citizens-uk-after-brexit-freedom-of-movement-visas-immigration-figures-settled-status/)
But, for the purposes of getting my girl here, as some of you outlined, it's actually easier as an EU person, so for now I won't even bother thinking about becoming a UK citizen. I have to wait 5 years for that anyway.

I'm attaching a pricelist for the courses at Kaplan, in Manchester.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 23, 2018, 11:20:00 AM


Citizenship doesn't come into it .. 

IF Rod exercises his right to live / try to find work ( even if he hasn't, got work, yet) in Ireland and gets Irish Residency - he can find a way - if he listens to me - to bring his g/f to IRL to study ... but she'll be allowed to work, too



IF she has residency in IRL - they can move freely within the CTA UK / IRL

PLE-EASE Trench - stop posting such twaddle - that only proves - if anyone still doubted it - that you post for effect and aren't too bothered if it's factual

Mobe, the link you posted seemed very much to suggest that it is either married or contracted registered partner. She is neither as they want to see first if they get to that stage. Rod has Portugal EU membership, I fail to see how that would at all help him get a girl/girlfriend in the UK when she is outside the EU. She has at present no official connection to him. Even if she was considered as his partner, he has had no durable relationship with her - he would have to go outside UK for that which he does not wish to do and on their financial standing I don't see it as a goer they would probably end up begging in the streets somewhere.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 23, 2018, 11:24:54 AM
Mobe, the link you posted seemed very much to suggest that it is either married or contracted registered partner. She is neither as they want to see first if they get to that stage. Rod has Portugal EU membership, I fail to see how that would at all help him get a girl/girlfriend in the UK when she is outside the EU. She has at present no official connection to him.

"I fail to see", says it all

You still haven't told us your experience of such matters ;)



Title: Hello guys!
Post by: lyndontom on January 23, 2018, 11:25:18 AM
Lists me as just the person who will be providing accomodation, along with my bank account statements for the past 6 months (and with over £1000 in the account each month, or £3000 in there right now)


What will her/your response be when they ask who you are and what your relationship to her is to be providing accommodation and sponsorship?


There is a lot of noise in this thread Rod, but you're going to have to decipher some of the genuine help that has been posted my Mob and others here and not choose to ignore the bits you selectively feel aren't relevant. And, believe me, I have done many visa applications through my work and I am in Manchester too. You may get lucky and find there are no obstacles, but if I were you I wouldn't underestimate the thoroughness of the process.


Some of us have been through the process and have seen some of the potential pitfalls. Some of those people have chosen to contribute, but you've overlooked them. You're a musician, not from the UK and without steady work - you have to be pragmatic about this and you have to approach it as if no stone would be left unturned. There aren't any easy 'shortcuts'.


By the way, I'm not here to bash you, but you've got to be more astute about the way you approach it and listening to Trench spouting his 'opinion' won't help you move forward on this one. I sense you only want to get the best chance of a successful outcome.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 23, 2018, 12:45:57 PM
I'm not in London.

I'm in Manchester. Which means life is cheaper.

Well, yes- but are you aware of how much you'll be expected to prove you are earning to get your g/f here on your assurances.. nearly £19k a year, plus the tuition fees..  Your sums won't add up ((

Please don't quote the Sun..))

Ireland is not an option, because I'm settling here for a number of reasons.

But you never actually give them ..!

IF you hope to reside/ work in the UK AND bring in your g/f you MUST use the UK immigration route in the first instance - You WILL NOT get her in - based on your figures - period

You cannot use the EU route - as you stubbornly refuse to establish a pre-relationship. ((




Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 23, 2018, 12:52:39 PM

What will her/your response be when they ask who you are and what your relationship to her is to be providing accommodation and sponsorship?


There is a lot of noise in this thread Rod, but you're going to have to decipher some of the genuine help that has been posted my Mob and others here and not choose to ignore the bits you selectively feel aren't relevant. And, believe me, I have done many visa applications through my work and I am in Manchester too. You may get lucky and find there are no obstacles, but if I were you I wouldn't underestimate the thoroughness of the process.


Some of us have been through the process and have seen some of the potential pitfalls. Some of those people have chosen to contribute, but you've overlooked them. You're a musician, not from the UK and without steady work - you have to be pragmatic about this and you have to approach it as if no stone would be left unturned. There aren't any easy 'shortcuts'.


By the way, I'm not here to bash you, but you've got to be more astute about the way you approach it and listening to Trench spouting his 'opinion' won't help you move forward on this one. I sense you only want to get the best chance of a successful outcome.

The question you raise is the same one me and other forum members have raised, mostly from the UK, as we are aware of this. Rod hsa either not taken this on board or has refuted it, we can do no more. Same with the other point you make in him needing to be thorough in his preparation on all of this. Unfortunately, I think the way UK border control/immigration work are completely alien to Rod or he just doesn't care about the risk of it all going south and any fallout that may result. Its why my advice ultimately to him was to go for it since he has made up his mind.

I do not think she is a scammer, but if she is given thousands of pounds by Rod then he asks for it back he's putting her in an awkward position - she may or may not pay it back, the thing is its a lot of money out there so I think once sent that's it money gone.

The thing is many foreigners like Rod look at the 'requirements' given out and think if they fulfil them then job done - hardly, this is where opinions come in as those of us that live in the UK and from similar systems operated in US, AUS & Canada know that they ask these 'requirements' to turf up as much as they can about you. Its not a question of fulfilling requirements but the info you let slip along the way. We have tried to explain these to Rod but he still thinks its a question of fulfilling the 'requirements' lol. We have tried telling him the money he is putting down at present though meeting requirements also exposes the lack of financial backing he and his girl have got. Border control are unlikely to be as off hand as he is about it all.

Rod, by all means go ahead who knows you might wing it, I would suggest you want a lot of You Tube vids on the UK Border Force first and see the type of approach they take.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: ML on January 23, 2018, 03:22:15 PM
Lists me as just the person who will be providing accommodation, along with my bank account statements for the past 6 months (and with over £1000 in the account each month, or £3000 in there right now)

What is left to deny the application?

Must be quite different in UK compared to USA.

For USA, a man listed as paying for accommodation would lead to quick denial of any type of visa.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 23, 2018, 03:36:41 PM
Yes, ML
 
Quite different..  No problem to bring in a g/f as long as all the ducks are in a row.

SC was turned down as the UK Visa Application Centre...which had been paid extra to check...and SC forgot the English translations of her ownership of more than one asset in Russia..

They have really cut back on staff and they are under paid and over worked..so it is REALLY important to remove the slightest worry.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 23, 2018, 04:25:25 PM
So, addressing MANY claims:

I quoted the Sun randomly. That same article is also in the Post and a number of others, whatever your preference is.

I've passed the first stage of selection for a job. If I get it, it will pay £22k, so that's more than the £19k mentioned.

But, I'm paying my rent in advance since I can't pass reference checks, so my rent won't come off my salary. I did say I had savings, didn't I?

I wouldn't be PAYING FOR ACCOMODATION. She's staying at my place. If asked, my answer is she's my girlfriend. We haven't seen each other in a while because of her having issues with her mother and the mother actually took her passport away (this is completely true, she was supposed to go see me in Brazil, this is why she didn't go).
She has her passport now because she told mom she needed it for her file at work. I have a copy of it here already.

I won't be giving her any money directly, so I'm not going to run any risk of her keeping it and staying in Russia.

It will be just a girl from Russia applying for a student visa to study English in the UK, who would never have done this by herself but she happens to have met a nice man who is willing to bring her here, help her do this and also see if there's a relationship to be developed, since we've already met before and had a great time in Moscow together.

If it doesn't work, there will be no fallout for me except the expense. It might make it harder for HER to obtain a visa in the future, but she's obviously willing to take the risks. Why wouldn't she?
And, also if it doesn't work, I'll probably still learn something so...
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Davo2 on January 23, 2018, 06:03:13 PM
If asked, my answer is she's my girlfriend.

I can give you some up to date advice on what you need to show evidence of a relationship. After her visa as declined, I've been talking to a visa specialist. It's cost me nothing to talk to him over the  phone.

On his advice I've compiled the following.

* Complete message logs of all our conversations via email, what's app, Skype etc... for interest sake it's now over 100, 000 individual messages.

* From the message logs I've taken more personal discussions that someone in a legitimate relationship would discuss : -  messages of congratulations for birthdays and other events like my children's graduations. Messages from her parents giving me their regards,  Conversations regarding parenting issues and styles. Discussions about hopes and dreams, including how we would see our future  together. Discussions that are a little more intimate... Compliments, flirting etc. Messages of concern when a child or parent are sick.

* Video chat logs.... Times and lengths they occurred Again for interest sake we have chatted for several hundred hours. Soon we are  going to record our video chats.

* Pictures and  videos.... We have shared over 1000. Birthdays, graduations, our parents birthdays, video messages on valentines day, video tours of each others work, even every day things like sharing children's home work assignments and school reports.

Now all we have to do is actually meet and see if we have the same feelings face to face. If this is the case, we plan to  spend over a month together this year and with pictures of us together (hopefully something you already have), meeting her family and documented evidence such as sharing hotel rooms ect... we should have a good case to show a genuine relationship
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 23, 2018, 06:11:25 PM
I can give you some up to date advice on what you need to show evidence of a relationship. After her visa as declined, I've been talking to a visa specialist. It's cost me nothing to talk to him over the  phone.

On his advice I've compiled the following.

* Complete message logs of all our conversations via email, what's app, Skype etc... for interest sake it's now over 100, 000 individual messages.

* From the message logs I've taken more personal discussions that someone in a legitimate relationship would discuss : -  messages of congratulations for birthdays and other events like my children's graduations. Messages from her parents giving me their regards,  Conversations regarding parenting issues and styles. Discussions about hopes and dreams, including how we would see our future  together. Discussions that are a little more intimate... Compliments, flirting etc. Messages of concern when a child or parent are sick.

* Video chat logs.... Times and lengths they occurred Again for interest sake we have chatted for several hundred hours. Soon we are  going to record our video chats.

* Pictures and  videos.... We have shared over 1000. Birthdays, graduations, our parents birthdays, video messages on valentines day, video tours of each others work, even every day things like sharing children's home work assignments and school reports.

Now all we have to do is actually meet and see if we have the same feelings face to face. If this is the case, we plan to  spend over a month together this year and with pictures of us together (hopefully something you already have), meeting her family and documented evidence such as sharing hotel rooms ect... we should have a good case to show a genuine relationship

Um... they're under staffed and overworked, someone here said.
I doubt, with every cell in my body, that they will actually LOOK at all that. Not in a million years.
But, hey, can't hurt!! Good luck man!!!
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Jumper on January 23, 2018, 06:52:59 PM
I do wish you luck in your endeavor.

You didn't have much luck in getting a Canadian student  visa, and I fear  it's going to be as difficult, or more so, for her to get a UK general/student one.

Still it seems she's willing to risk it, and you're  willing to pay what it takes ,even if its denied , ,so why not?

And congrats on the job!


This is slightly related if you decide to take other paths eventually:
Or to help those thinking of meeting their FSU interest in a schengen country.

My wife is Ukrainian,  when we were dating she was a young single female, with no real ties to her country other than employment  which means little (sound familiar?)so even EU tourist trips were difficult to get a visa for without jumping thru some already established and proven routes.

Applying for a  France,  tourist /schengen as example at that time was a pretty certain denial.With no past history of travel or honor ing a visas guidelines.
However other schengen countries with closer ties to Ukraine ,and which share a border ,more commerce ,and more families crossing etc were more likeky to approve.
   Approval odds also increased if you booked an official tour through a tour company.
There is no real need to stay on that tour, just begin with it and end with it. Enter and exit visas matching etc.
So a polish schengen visa approved   she visited several EU countries and returned through Poland. Applying for future visas established a travel and visa history that helped assure other approvals that before would be quite unlikely.


We've known several others approach that type of visa that way with good success.
Russians generally get an easier approval than Ukrainians it seems,  but have known Russians denied  schengen italian visa, to be approved for Estonia. Then be able to travel regardless,and later be approved directly for another trip.to.italy.
So type of  approach seems to matter, in those countries even though it shouldn't really since nothing  changed in the applicants background or circumstance on the initial approval.

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Davo2 on January 23, 2018, 06:53:10 PM
Quote from: GM_Rod link=topic=224[tt
[/tt]04.msg475610#msg475610 date=1516756 :popcorn:285]
Um... they're under staffed and overworked, someone here said.
I doubt, with every cell in my body, that they will actually LOOK at all that. Not in a million years.
But, hey, can't hurt!! Good luck man!!!

I'm not telling you this to have a go and I don't expect you to have the extent of messages etc that I do, as I've been chatting for a ridiculously long time and many hours everyday. All I'm saying is this is what a specialist that has written visas of all types for guys like us, has told me to do to show evidence of a relationship. This was specifically in regards to what you are attempting and what i will have another attempt to do, sponsoring her accommodation. The specialist isn't going to ask for this if he doesn't see it as being important to a successful visa bid.

It's just a heads up so you can prepare yourself, because it will take many hours to compile this type of information.

Obviously they aren't going to read 100's of pages of messages, which is why I've separated the more important discussions. I was told they expect to see evidence of substantial correspondence if she's your girlfriend.

I get the feeling you are completely underestimating whats required and how critically they will look at the information you both supply. As I said  previously, I made this mistake only several months ago. One 5 minute phone call would have saved me weeks of  planning, I recommend you do the same before giving it another thought.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: southernX on January 23, 2018, 09:11:30 PM
I can give you some up to date advice on what you need to show evidence of a relationship. After her visa as declined, I've been talking to a visa specialist. It's cost me nothing to talk to him over the  phone.

On his advice I've compiled the following.

* Complete message logs of all our conversations via email, what's app, Skype etc... for interest sake it's now over 100, 000 individual messages.

* From the message logs I've taken more personal discussions that someone in a legitimate relationship would discuss : -  messages of congratulations for birthdays and other events like my children's graduations. Messages from her parents giving me their regards,  Conversations regarding parenting issues and styles. Discussions about hopes and dreams, including how we would see our future  together. Discussions that are a little more intimate... Compliments, flirting etc. Messages of concern when a child or parent are sick.

* Video chat logs.... Times and lengths they occurred Again for interest sake we have chatted for several hundred hours. Soon we are  going to record our video chats.

* Pictures and  videos.... We have shared over 1000. Birthdays, graduations, our parents birthdays, video messages on valentines day, video tours of each others work, even every day things like sharing children's home work assignments and school reports.

Now all we have to do is actually meet and see if we have the same feelings face to face. If this is the case, we plan to  spend over a month together this year and with pictures of us together (hopefully something you already have), meeting her family and documented evidence such as sharing hotel rooms ect... we should have a good case to show a genuine relationship




they're under staffed and overworked, someone here said.
I doubt, with every cell in my body, that they will actually LOOK at all that. Not in a million years.
But, hey, can't hurt!! Good luck man!!!

rod ...you are fooling yourself if you dont think immi in UK will look at this body of evidence mate

back when we applied  in australia with immi i did exactly the same as davo is suggesting to you here , printed of pages of emails , skype conversations , , phone records etc as a part of the application file ...... it was submitted along with tons of other evidence , some they asked for , and alot of it i supplied anyway to prove the case ..

my now wife travelled to moscow for her interview with immigration , when the interview was finished after 45 minutes they handed her the large blue file that was part of the evidence on our application , to that point she had not seen the whole volume and she was staggered at how large it was and what was in that file , our application , she brought it out to australia , and on many pages there are notations , signatures or underlined items that showed us it had been read and checked by our case file officer , both in australia and moscow .

currently you have a lot of things that will go against you and make any application difficult , so while you think you know and have  it nailed your clue less to a large degree on how this plays out imo

you need to listen and take some advice imo , any first application that does not succeed will make it more difficult later , understand that and when you do apply make sure its solid and accurate or dont bother at all

SX
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: southernX on January 23, 2018, 09:23:24 PM
I'm not telling you this to have a go and I don't expect you to have the extent of messages etc that I do, as I've been chatting for a ridiculously long time and many hours everyday. All I'm saying is this is what a specialist that has written visas of all types for guys like us, has told me to do to show evidence of a relationship. This was specifically in regards to what you are attempting another attempt to do, sponsoring her accomodation. The specialist isn't going to ask for this if he doesn't see it as being important to a successful visa bid.

It's just a heads up so you can prepare yourself, because it will take many hours to compile this type of information.

Obviously they aren't going to read 100's of pages of messages, which is why I've separated the more important discussions. I was told they expect to see evidence of substantial correspondence if she's your girlfriend.

I get the feeling you are completely underestimating whats required and how critically they will look at the information you both supply. As I said  previously, I made this mistake only several months ago. One 5 minute phone call would have saved me weeks of  planning, I recommend you do the same before giving it another thought.

good advice davo

doing a visa application is not difficult for the average bear , but getting some specialist advice and guidance from the outset is a good way to get it right first time out , especialyl if you use a visa agent who does  it for his bread and butter

SX
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 24, 2018, 12:44:03 AM
I think one thing you need to bear in mind also Rod, aside from all of this is that if you need manage to get her in the country she could easily go off with another guy. More so I think if she has a student visa as even if you were providing accommodation the visa is tied to being a student not to you as a sponsor as under the other route of you bring her bf.

Point is the UK is full of quality guys that she does no have access to back home. Certainly richer guys ;) but also guys that may be deemed better looking, better social skills, etc. Now you have not got a gf at the moment and I assume haven't had one for a while. What is the likelihood she may look around a big city like Manchester and before long bump into a guy she takes to more than you and decides things are different now and goes off with him. I get the impression you are counting on her gratitude at getting her the visa but I'm not sure if that will really count for much at the end of the day.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 24, 2018, 12:47:28 AM
I did ask if anyone had an agent or lawyer for me to use. The bickering just went on, and I didn't get a reference on this.

Now... The idea of getting a visa for a different country and then her coming here through EU seems GREAT, I want to look further into that!!!
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 24, 2018, 12:54:47 AM
I think one thing you need to bear in mind also Rod, aside from all of this is that if you need manage to get her in the country she could easily go off with another guy. More so I think if she has a student visa as even if you were providing accommodation the visa is tied to being a student not to you as a sponsor as under the other route of you bring her bf.

Point is the UK is full of quality guys that she does no have access to back home. Certainly richer guys ;) but also guys that may be deemed better looking, better social skills, etc. Now you have not got a gf at the moment and I assume haven't had one for a while. What is the likelihood she may look around a big city like Manchester and before long bump into a guy she takes to more than you and decides things are different now and goes off with him. I get the impression you are counting on her gratitude at getting her the visa but I'm not sure if that will really count for much at the end of the day.

This is just utterly completely wrong.
I am better looking than average. Definitely not threatened at all by UK men and their bad teeth (no offense to UK guys in this thread), not to mention UK guys, as ALL women I've talked to have stated, can be too shy and too "polite" if you know what I mean.
Better social skills than a Brazilian? Such a thing does not exist. Besides I am a talented musician who doesn't drink or smoke (another hard thing to find anywhere but especially in the UK).
I did have a GF in the period me and this girl didn't talk. For about 8 months. We're not together anymore because it didn't make sense for her to come with me to UK (she was halfway through college on a full scholarship, and didn't speak any english).
Gratitude? No. She reached out to me first, and she did that without any specific motives to come here, her coming here was my idea. In fact the first time we discussed it, she just said "I don't know if I have good chances of getting a visa there". Obviously she thought about it before, but hey, she's hot. She could find any other guy to get her here. She emailed ME. She's texting ME everyday.
Again, she could be doing this simultaneously with several guys, and sure, if she's studying here, she's bound to meet guys at the school at the very least.

But my friend, her going off with another guy is definitely one part of all this I'm NOT worried about.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: mhr7 on January 24, 2018, 01:17:41 AM
I think one thing you need to bear in mind also Rod, aside from all of this is that if you need manage to get her in the country she could easily go off with another guy. More so I think if she has a student visa as even if you were providing accommodation the visa is tied to being a student not to you as a sponsor as under the other route of you bring her bf.

Point is the UK is full of quality guys that she does no have access to back home. Certainly richer guys ;) but also guys that may be deemed better looking, better social skills, etc. Now you have not got a gf at the moment and I assume haven't had one for a while. What is the likelihood she may look around a big city like Manchester and before long bump into a guy she takes to more than you and decides things are different now and goes off with him. I get the impression you are counting on her gratitude at getting her the visa but I'm not sure if that will really count for much at the end of the day.

Your insecurities are going to get you nowhere in this game, Trench.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Davo2 on January 24, 2018, 01:20:28 AM
Rod, I wouldn't worry about this too much. You obviously have an emotional connection with her and i'm sure you have enough experience with dating to know once you've established this, generally she will only have eyes for you..... except my Ex wife!!!! get her drunk and she's open for business to any man who shows interest  ;)   

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 24, 2018, 01:30:11 AM
This is just utterly completely wrong.
I am better looking than average. Definitely not threatened at all by UK men and their bad teeth (no offense to UK guys in this thread), not to mention UK guys, as ALL women I've talked to have stated, can be too shy and too "polite" if you know what I mean.
Better social skills than a Brazilian? Such a thing does not exist. Besides I am a talented musician who doesn't drink or smoke (another hard thing to find anywhere but especially in the UK).
I did have a GF in the period me and this girl didn't talk. For about 8 months. We're not together anymore because it didn't make sense for her to come with me to UK (she was halfway through college on a full scholarship, and didn't speak any english).
Gratitude? No. She reached out to me first, and she did that without any specific motives to come here, her coming here was my idea. In fact the first time we discussed it, she just said "I don't know if I have good chances of getting a visa there". Obviously she thought about it before, but hey, she's hot. She could find any other guy to get her here. She emailed ME. She's texting ME everyday.
Again, she could be doing this simultaneously with several guys, and sure, if she's studying here, she's bound to meet guys at the school at the very least.

But my friend, her going off with another guy is definitely one part of all this I'm NOT worried about.

If she's hot Rod she'll be hot to other guys too. The competition in the UK is 'a lot' stiffer than out in the FSU. Guys that pull up in a real flash expensive Merc compared to your bus pass and who own their own place. Guys who spend most of their free time working out at the Gym - wash board stomachs attract women. You sat you are handsome and sociaable but have no gf here in the UK in the months you have been here - you know local dating is easier than importing a girl.

The girl I know contacted you without knowing you were in the UK. I'm sure at the moment you are top of her list, but when she gets in the UK that can change - if she sees she can get better she will probably go for it. You must understand,  why is such a hit girl single in the FSU? Answer is because their are no decent guys there that she is attracted to. That all changes once she is in a country like the UK, US, etc she will be surrounded by choice and it will not be long before she notices in a built up city like Manchester. Look around you and see what you are up against its a lot more numerous than you might think.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Davo2 on January 24, 2018, 01:45:51 AM
Trench this attitude is going to destroy any genuine relationship you form. Jealousy and lack of trust is a  turn off for women. If you can't trust her 100% then you should never be with her in the first place.

Infidelity happens often, but not usually in a  healthy relationship. When you constantly talk about this, it comes across that you're insecure and have already accepted that you can't form a deep enough relationship where she will remain faithful.

Trust me ... Us guys who have experienced mutually respectful and loving relationships are thinking WTF!!! are you going on about. You are the only one who thinks this is an issue.

Have you never fallen in love with someone and she fallen for you, so deeply that no one else exists?  This is the woman you need to find!!

No offence, buy you have more hang ups than the members of the victims of infidelity support group, I'm a moderator of and most of us were married to serial cheaters!! If you posted this attitude in our group, we would all encourage you to go the therapy, because you can't form a successful new relationship with this baggage... I'm actually being serious.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 24, 2018, 02:24:36 AM

What will her/your response be when they ask who you are and what your relationship to her is to be providing accommodation and sponsorship?

Welcome to the thread, lyndontom

This and your other points raised and observations are concise and useful.

Davo - sorry mate - but showing the chat after 'long time no see' - then an invite and offer to pay from Rod, when the lass hasn't got any history of stability, financially - it WILL not fly re a UK application. 

Your info is giving false hope
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Davo2 on January 24, 2018, 02:35:21 AM
Welcome to the thread, lyndontom

This and your other points raised and observations are concise and useful.

Davo - sorry mate - but showing the chat after 'long time no see' - then an invite and offer to pay from Rod, when the lass hasn't got any history of stability, financially - it WILL not fly re a UK application. 

Your info is giving false hope
Yeah, I may well be giving him false hope and it's probably a tough ask to put something reasonable together with not much time together in Russia and the break as you said,  but it seems like he's going to give it a crack. At least he has what's needed or what he needs to work on to show a relationship.
I'm guessing the UK is similar to OZ, I know exactly what a responsible visa specialist will say, the same as I was told..... Go and spend as much time with her as possible before you attempt to sponsor her.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 24, 2018, 02:37:40 AM
I think one thing you need to bear in mind also Rod, aside from all of this is that if you need manage to get her in the country she could easily go off with another guy. More so I think if she has a student visa as even if you were providing accommodation the visa is tied to being a student not to you as a sponsor as under the other route of you bring her bf.

Point is the UK is full of quality guys that she does no have access to back home. Certainly richer guys ;) but also guys that may be deemed better looking, better social skills, etc.

Trench, no. not the "she'll find another guy" thing again. Stop.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 24, 2018, 02:48:45 AM
Trench is too funny, you guys.
I've been talking to friends about how people's own insecurities blind them to stuff.
They take whatever it is they're watching or reading, and they give it any meaning they want, all based on their own issues. Sad.

You say the competition is STIFF in the UK?

You should go to Brazil to see what stiff competition really is. Psh!!

Davo is doing his best, and even if his suggestion might not apply to me, it's definitely not a bad idea to do what he's doing. Like I said, it can't hurt, right? The thing is, most of the conversation between me and my girl happens on video... and on our phones. I do have a screen recording app I could use, but man... would I put the videos on youtube in a private shared mode and give the link to border patrol? Would I supply the videos on a DVD disc? Come on...
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 24, 2018, 02:58:21 AM


Davo is doing his best, and even if his suggestion might not apply to me, it's definitely not a bad idea to do what he's doing. Like I said, it can't hurt, right? The thing is, most of the conversation between me and my girl happens on video... and on our phones. I do have a screen recording app I could use, but man... would I put the videos on youtube in a private shared mode and give the link to border patrol? Would I supply the videos on a DVD disc? Come on...

Davo hasn't taken offence and I can see his intentions are well meant !))

So when I say - you've GOT to stop thinking how the UK visa process should be ( we've all been there ) and realise how it is ... you're going to make a plan that will surely get you what you want.

You keep telling us what you won't do and why - and we're telling you ..if you don't - you won't get what you want, mate .....  How do we help you break that circle ? ;)

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 24, 2018, 03:34:51 AM
Trench is too funny, you guys.
I've been talking to friends about how people's own insecurities blind them to stuff.
They take whatever it is they're watching or reading, and they give it any meaning they want, all based on their own issues. Sad.

You say the competition is STIFF in the UK?

You should go to Brazil to see what stiff competition really is. Psh!!

Davo is doing his best, and even if his suggestion might not apply to me, it's definitely not a bad idea to do what he's doing. Like I said, it can't hurt, right? The thing is, most of the conversation between me and my girl happens on video... and on our phones. I do have a screen recording app I could use, but man... would I put the videos on youtube in a private shared mode and give the link to border patrol? Would I supply the videos on a DVD disc? Come on...

In all honesty the girl I was with last was almost 15 years younger than me and looked like a model in some respects so what most guys would deem around a 10. I did not aim for this she contacted me in the initial out set. I think she wants a guy that can afford her lots of fashion clothing, whether she is into me on top of that is kind of obscured because of this. The relationship was kind of like the premise to the first series of 'Homeland' - a badie or good one (except she was female and it was dating stuff). I accept now after posters on here have told me stuff that I may have taken some things the wrong way such as her materialism. Many guys think as I do and not at all keen on materialistic girls.

What is your girl like Rod? What are your comparative ages roughly? Are there any issues between the two of you or with her? Since you've only spent a week together what are your impressions of her?
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 24, 2018, 04:23:44 AM
Davo hasn't taken offence and I can see his intentions are well meant !))

So when I say - you've GOT to stop thinking how the UK visa process should be ( we've all been there ) and realise how it is ... you're going to make a plan that will surely get you what you want.

You keep telling us what you won't do and why - and we're telling you ..if you don't - you won't get what you want, mate .....  How do we help you break that circle ? ;)

Well, I've explained this but I'll do it again, I will even rephrase: It's not that I don't want to go to Russia. The issue is that I CAN'T.
I'm in the middle of getting a job here. When this comes through, it will be a year before I can take a break. So that's one reason.
Second reason is, the expenses involved in going there, would be much better spent on getting her here, and paying for her studies. These are comparable costs, almost the same really. I've been in Russia and I know how much I'd pay for an apartment there that suits my tastes. I even got as far as contacting the same person who hosted me last time (AirBNB). She's now selling the apartment so she can no longer host there. But it's irrelevant, since as I stated, I can't go there.
And, even if I did, I don't believe that would "build up" the relationship enough to make a different to border patrol. 1 week together 2 years ago is not much different than 1 week and 1 month together with 2 years in between. You guys have to agree to that.
Also, she's working too. If I went there, I'd spend most of the day doing nothing at home waiting for her to get off work. Whereas if she's here and I'm working, she's studying so our time is not so wasted.
We need to work on getting her here on a student visa taking my trip to Russia off the table.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 24, 2018, 04:31:03 AM
In all honesty the girl I was with last was almost 15 years younger than me and looked like a model in some respects so what most guys would deem around a 10. I did not aim for this she contacted me in the initial out set. I think she wants a guy that can afford her lots of fashion clothing, whether she is into me on top of that is kind of obscured because of this. The relationship was kind of like the premise to the first series of 'Homeland' - a badie or good one (except she was female and it was dating stuff). I accept now after posters on here have told me stuff that I may have taken some things the wrong way such as her materialism. Many guys think as I do and not at all keen on materialistic girls.

What is your girl like Rod? What are your comparative ages roughly? Are there any issues between the two of you or with her? Since you've only spent a week together what are your impressions of her?

Ok Trench, now we're getting into some real talk here.

I am actually very good with relationship advice, hence why ALL of my friends come to me for it.

As soon as you figured out your girl is after high fashion and a guy who can afford that, if that's her first priority then that is a MAJOR RED FLAG. RUN.

My girl is simple. She's super shy (this is why I have a LOT of pictures from the trip to Russia and she isn't in any of them).
She doesn't talk a lot, but a big reason for that is because her English is still poor so she lacks the confidence to speak English. It also bothers her that she's impressed by what I do and my intelligence etc, so this puts even more pressue on her, she is always scared that when she speaks English, she'll say something wrong and I'll think less of her for it.
But she also loves it when I correct and teach her, so that's ok.
She's definitely not the high fashion type, I could tell by how she dressed (but that was also very much affected by her not having a lot of money. When she's here I will definitely help with that).
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 24, 2018, 04:58:32 AM
hey Rod how long were you in Russia that time?  I worked in the Moscow area twice for a few months each time.  I build up a social circle the normal way, meeting people in real life. 

Trench and many others here do "trips" to Russia, Ukraine for the sole purpose of finding a girl.  That's probably why he is more worried about a girl scamming him.  The women they contact with online are much different from if you went there and met someone normally even as a tourist.

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 24, 2018, 05:07:41 AM
Well, I've explained this but I'll do it again, I will even rephrase: It's not that I don't want to go to Russia. The issue is that I CAN'T.
I'm in the middle of getting a job here. When this comes through, it will be a year before I can take a break. So that's one reason.
Second reason is, the expenses involved in going there, would be much better spent on getting her here, and paying for her studies. These are comparable costs, almost the same really. I've been in Russia and I know how much I'd pay for an apartment there that suits my tastes. I even got as far as contacting the same person who hosted me last time (AirBNB). She's now selling the apartment so she can no longer host there. But it's irrelevant, since as I stated, I can't go there.
And, even if I did, I don't believe that would "build up" the relationship enough to make a different to border patrol. 1 week together 2 years ago is not much different than 1 week and 1 month together with 2 years in between. You guys have to agree to that.
Also, she's working too. If I went there, I'd spend most of the day doing nothing at home waiting for her to get off work. Whereas if she's here and I'm working, she's studying so our time is not so wasted.
We need to work on getting her here on a student visa taking my trip to Russia off the table.

I'm sorry that you thought you felt the need to repeat all that ...

I and others have already made it pretty clear that

1/ you WILL NOT get this lass in on a study visa - if you are the host

2/ you WILL NOT get this lass in without six months of bank statements and the funds to pay for the course and accommodation arranged by the institution

3/ it is MUCH cheaper to meet - demonstrate the relationship and THEN try to apply as her host.

OR go the IRL route ... but you'll still have to prove a RELATIONSHIP - and that you have suitable accommodation - but there'll be no questions as to her finances ... and less about yours

Sorry ((
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 24, 2018, 07:07:45 AM
hey Rod how long were you in Russia that time?  I worked in the Moscow area twice for a few months each time.  I build up a social circle the normal way, meeting people in real life. 

Trench and many others here do "trips" to Russia, Ukraine for the sole purpose of finding a girl.  That's probably why he is more worried about a girl scamming him.  The women they contact with online are much different from if you went there and met someone normally even as a tourist.

I went to Ukraine first for a month, with the sole purpose of meeting girls, yes. But I was smart about it. Scheduled like 10 meetings, most in different cities. This served a double purpose: I really got to see the country, and the risk of running into a girl while being on a date with another girl became nullified.

The Russia trip was more focused, I went there mostly to see this girl I'm talking to now. But her situation, as I stated, was bad. Her mother was really crampin' our style, that's why we only spent a week together and she never even went to my apartment while I was there.  I spent an extra two weeks there though. Most of that time I spent doing touristy things. Went to the cathedrals, went to St. Petersburg and all that.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 24, 2018, 07:10:56 AM
I'm sorry that you thought you felt the need to repeat all that ...

I and others have already made it pretty clear that

1/ you WILL NOT get this lass in on a study visa - if you are the host

2/ you WILL NOT get this lass in without six months of bank statements and the funds to pay for the course and accommodation arranged by the institution

3/ it is MUCH cheaper to meet - demonstrate the relationship and THEN try to apply as her host.

OR go the IRL route ... but you'll still have to prove a RELATIONSHIP - and that you have suitable accommodation - but there'll be no questions as to her finances ... and less about yours

Sorry ((

1- We will see about that

2- I have every intention of providing the 6 months

3- What part of "I can't go to Russia" don't you understand?

And what do you mean IRL? This IS IRL nowadays. You know that over 70% of ALL relationships start online, right?
But me and her already spent time together in person which is already a step up considering how things go nowadays. Our friend Davo here hasn't met his girl in person yet! Which is the norm!
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 24, 2018, 07:55:01 AM
Relationships may now start online, although I doubt it’s at 70%, but most of those relationships are between people in the same country.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: lyndontom on January 24, 2018, 08:52:22 AM
1- We will see about that


If you try to circumvent the regulations, you will get caught out. As per the sage advice you've been given here, you need all your ducks in a row. Better to be fore-armed and over-prepared than to think that you'll be able to skim over key information and not get found out, or your story will naturally unravel. The guys here have told you some of the evidence they've been asked to prepare - or to at least have ready access to and rely on if needed. If they suspect a red flag, or that something doesn't quite add up, you can expect a rejection and they won't be babysitting you through the process, you can be sure of that.


Nobody is trying to batter you here Rod, but to make you aware of the reality of the process. You certainly might try and get lucky - but if you've invested heavily into the process and don't succeed, you won't be able to go back and take a more logical route you should have taken to begin with.


Trench - not everyone shares your insecurities here. If we did, we wouldn't bother starting and enduring this long process. Are you going to lock your potential future wife in the house and force her to have your babies, never to meet anyone in the outside world? C'mon man, please. Where in the UK are you? I cannot believe for a second this isn't a troll!

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 24, 2018, 09:27:13 AM
1- We will see about that

Rod, just to confirm - you don't 'offend' me or anyone by confirming you won't listen to those who have the experience - that you don't - I / we just can even understand understand why - we have - in one way or another 'been there' .. 

If you can pull this off - be sure to tell us .

2- I have every intention of providing the 6 months

To be clear I refer to 'HER' records - of which there are currently none..

3- What part of "I can't go to Russia" don't you understand?

I did not suggest you going to Russia - but I AM suggesting you must meet - to prove a relationship - it is an investment and will SAVE you money - as you'll be able to accommodate her.. We understand money doesn't grow on trees and you need to work - a long weekend or two in a third country.. ? Cyprus -is esy as you simply sign a form acknowledging you'll be responsible for her.. 

And what do you mean IRL? This IS IRL nowadays. You know that over 70% of ALL relationships start online, right?




You told me you understood English better than many ... IRL is the international code for Ireland  - the Republic of..


Your meeting - if it is as described - helps - only if you have more .. it was too long ago

If you will not leave the UK to meet her in a third nation - you really can forget her coming to the UK ((

Title: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 24, 2018, 09:38:37 AM
1- We will see about that

2- I have every intention of providing the 6 months


If she comes to the UK to study, then she has to show to immigration she is only here to study. Nothing more.

Any mention of relationships or working part-time or full-time will arouse suspicion and make it more difficult for her to get into the UK, either at the visa application stage, or at the border where she could be detained for further questioning.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 24, 2018, 10:01:44 AM
If she comes to the UK to study, then she has to show to immigration she is only here to study. Nothing more.

Any mention of relationships or working part-time or full-time will arouse suspicion and make it more difficult for her to get into the UK, either at the visa application stage, or at the border where she could be detained for further questioning.

OK, I may misunderstand.. but you are not correct

If Rod has proven he is paying and providing her accommodation - and satisfied the Visa officer ( bank statements, etc., ) this will not happen

This could only happen if - when questioned - his g/f and Rod's story as to the circumstances used to get a visa were not true.

It is NOT a 'negative' to the UK authorities to suggest a relationship - if it is demonstrable - and supported by proof of support - it is a 'positive'

Such a Visa can only be used if the study is taking place and continues to take place

For sure it does not allow, work or ( say) getting married and continued residency
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 24, 2018, 10:34:57 AM
I don't want to circumvent anything. I want to be correct about it.
If I was about breaking laws and stuff, I'd have stayed in the US as an illegal, like a lot of my friends did. I'm not about that life.

Ok I know 70% was a little high, but:
http://www.bustle.com/articles/105558-online-dating-is-the-second-most-popular-way-to-meet-someone-says-new-study-and-more (http://www.bustle.com/articles/105558-online-dating-is-the-second-most-popular-way-to-meet-someone-says-new-study-and-more)
http://www.eharmony.co.uk/dating-advice/online-dating-unplugged/over-50-of-couples-will-meet-online-by-2031#.WmjCJqhl--Y (http://www.eharmony.co.uk/dating-advice/online-dating-unplugged/over-50-of-couples-will-meet-online-by-2031#.WmjCJqhl--Y)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/online-dating/10107800/Why-online-love-is-more-likely-to-last.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/online-dating/10107800/Why-online-love-is-more-likely-to-last.html)

I could post more... but three are enough.

I AM listening. Everything you guys are saying is making me rethink many parts of the process. I just haven't seen any argument that makes me feel like for example, going to Russia would help (not that I CAN anyway).

As for English... not getting one little abbreviation, doesn't represent a lot about my understanding of English as a language, I don't think.
Hell, just look at my writing. It's impeccable. It wasn't a surprise when I scored maximum on all the IELTS tests I took. Academic and General (IELTS was a requirement for Canada). And, Ireland is an even worse suggestion than going to Russia... Although I appreciate you guys making an effort to blurt out every possible idea you have.

Anyway... let's keep the brainstorms going. I'm having fun too!

Thanks people!
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: lyndontom on January 24, 2018, 10:56:16 AM
I don't want to circumvent anything. I want to be correct about it.
If I was about breaking laws and stuff, I'd have stayed in the US as an illegal, like a lot of my friends did. I'm not about that life.


What you're trying to do is manufacture and squeeze your circumstances to fit into the process of a acquiring student visa because it's what you regard as the most straightforward way of meeting your aims of getting her into the UK.


Let's be honest about it - the start of this was never her desire to come here to study, then as a secondary thought followed your desire to be with her, right? It was the other way around. You want to get her here and found a round-about way of looking to achieve that aim. That's what my definition of circumvention is, at least in the context of this scenario. I'm not saying your plan is entirely flawed, but the process to go through is rigorous so your explanations need to be plausible and consistent. 
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 24, 2018, 11:09:02 AM

My girl is simple. She's super shy (this is why I have a LOT of pictures from the trip to Russia and she isn't in any of them).
She doesn't talk a lot, but a big reason for that is because her English is still poor so she lacks the confidence to speak English. It also bothers her that she's impressed by what I do and my intelligence etc, so this puts even more pressue on her, she is always scared that when she speaks English, she'll say something wrong and I'll think less of her for it.
But she also loves it when I correct and teach her, so that's ok.
She's definitely not the high fashion type, I could tell by how she dressed (but that was also very much affected by her not having a lot of money. When she's here I will definitely help with that).

Yeah know what you mean Rod these Russian peasant girls need clothing & feeding from day one. Virtually in rags when you meet them ;D

Seriously though it's fine to buy them some decent stuff but be careful not to westernise her or get her accustomed to buying fashion brand stuff. If she learns to be materialistic you're making a rod for your own back. By the sounds of it she sounds a good choice so don't go overboard on trying to change her too much. Guys on here have had women in the past who are all shy & sedate only for them to end up getting too big for their boots often as a guy trying to advance them and in doing so advanes her beyond his level. Talk to Moby on this one that's the way his last relationship went ;)

The not having any pictures with her in and/or the two of you is a problem. Showing a relationship without any photos of the two of you together basically dooms any thought of this route into the UK. Border control will want to see documentation not just photos in order to prove a relationship but they will in all likelihood want to see photos also. So you really are down to her being a student of her own back. The idea of you providing the accomodation on record is still a worrying one. Your in Manchester so accommodation is not nearly as expensive as London there. Instead of Uni halls maybe look for a cheap room for her somewhere which is often far cheaper than student halls. Then this will be less money to foward to her. If this is not a goer then think of some other arrangement you might be able to fix up for accomodation where you will not need to show up on the visa form I'm thinking.

Put it this way the first girl I met in Ukraine there was no chemistry with but we got on well. She was a modest type of girl. Even still I have photos of her & us together during our week & outings together in Kiev. So it's kind of a strange one for someone that was into you, a girl refusing photos would make me wonder if she was into me.
Title: Hello guys!
Post by: ML on January 24, 2018, 11:50:38 AM
why not stick to any FACTUAL info

What?  And eliminate most of the 7 pages that have been posted so far!
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 24, 2018, 12:04:13 PM

What you're trying to do is manufacture and squeeze your circumstances to fit into the process of a acquiring student visa because it's what you regard as the most straightforward way of meeting your aims of getting her into the UK.


Let's be honest about it - the start of this was never her desire to come here to study, then as a secondary thought followed your desire to be with her, right? It was the other way around. You want to get her here and found a round-about way of looking to achieve that aim. That's what my definition of circumvention is, at least in the context of this scenario. I'm not saying your plan is entirely flawed, but the process to go through is rigorous so your explanations need to be plausible and consistent.

Well, ok I'll give you that one.

My line of thinking is: We want to spend time together. I actually talked to her about going there. We decided that her coming here was best.
After that, I realized going there was also bad because I'll have a job soon. Ok.
So first, I looked at the visitor visa. Then after reading what's posted here and a lot of other stuff, I saw that one, although the best, is actually the hardest.
So then, I connected the fact that her English is not very good, to the fact that the student visa is easier. And to the fact that most schools here view this sort of thing as a business which would give them a genuine interest in helping out getting her here.
So in that way, it is a circumvention, BUT it's still a genuine one... she does want to study here... She just hadn't thought of that before I mentioned it to her. She was just thinking about being with me :-)
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 24, 2018, 12:09:07 PM
Yeah know what you mean Rod these Russian peasant girls need clothing & feeding from day one. Virtually in rags when you meet them ;D

Seriously though it's fine to buy them some decent stuff but be careful not to westernise her or get her accustomed to buying fashion brand stuff. If she learns to be materialistic you're making a rod for your own back. By the sounds of it she sounds a good choice so don't go overboard on trying to change her too much. Guys on here have had women in the past who are all shy & sedate only for them to end up getting too big for their boots often as a guy trying to advance them and in doing so advanes her beyond his level. Talk to Moby on this one that's the way his last relationship went ;)

The not having any pictures with her in and/or the two of you is a problem. Showing a relationship without any photos of the two of you together basically dooms any thought of this route into the UK. Border control will want to see documentation not just photos in order to prove a relationship but they will in all likelihood want to see photos also. So you really are down to her being a student of her own back. The idea of you providing the accomodation on record is still a worrying one. Your in Manchester so accommodation is not nearly as expensive as London there. Instead of Uni halls maybe look for a cheap room for her somewhere which is often far cheaper than student halls. Then this will be less money to foward to her. If this is not a goer then think of some other arrangement you might be able to fix up for accomodation where you will not need to show up on the visa form I'm thinking.

Put it this way the first girl I met in Ukraine there was no chemistry with but we got on well. She was a modest type of girl. Even still I have photos of her & us together during our week & outings together in Kiev. So it's kind of a strange one for someone that was into you, a girl refusing photos would make me wonder if she was into me.

I actually WAS very suspicious of that!!!!

But one of the first things she told me when we got back in touch, was that she regrets that and she spent quite some time apologizing for doing that and also for disappearing and all that. So we'll see how the new meeting in person develops.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 24, 2018, 02:24:19 PM
Supplying photos together is meaningless to support an application - in the case of UK, at least

FAR better to support a relationship status with bookings confirming staying travel to be together - boarding cards - even better - and who paid for the travel

THE most important thing is to show financial support from you and her earning 

Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 24, 2018, 03:29:01 PM
OK, I may misunderstand.. but you are not correct

If Rod has proven he is paying and providing her accommodation - and satisfied the Visa officer ( bank statements, etc., ) this will not happen

This could only happen if - when questioned - his g/f and Rod's story as to the circumstances used to get a visa were not true.

It is NOT a 'negative' to the UK authorities to suggest a relationship - if it is demonstrable - and supported by proof of support - it is a 'positive'

Such a Visa can only be used if the study is taking place and continues to take place

For sure it does not allow, work or ( say) getting married and continued residency

Generally for a student visa, if their course is longer than 6 months, they're allowed to work part-time a maximum of 20 hours a week, with the permission of their sponsor (the school, college etc). Otherwise, you're right msmob.

Yes you're correct msmob, declaring a relationship is not necessarily a negative in the visa application or interviews but as I stated, it does raise suspicion for officers to warrant further questioning.

I don't think it's usual (typical) at all to have a Russian woman enter the UK for the first time, using a student visa and saying she is here to study whilst already having a "boyfriend" in the UK. It's bound to raise more concerns with the immigration officers who will suspect she will have strong reasons for settling here in the UK and not go back at all. Quite likely, she will be asked further for proof of her relationship with Rod, which kind-of defeats Rod's purpose for using the student route to circumvent proving his relationship with her. It complicates things.

IF they decide to go the student route, I'll rather they declare themselves as just friends to immigration only if they are asked. Then it doesn't actually matter it's been two years since they last met. Less reasons for the officers to have suspicions that she may want to over-stay illegally with Rod.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 24, 2018, 03:38:36 PM
Well, ok I'll give you that one.

My line of thinking is: We want to spend time together. I actually talked to her about going there. We decided that her coming here was best.
After that, I realized going there was also bad because I'll have a job soon. Ok.
So first, I looked at the visitor visa. Then after reading what's posted here and a lot of other stuff, I saw that one, although the best, is actually the hardest.
So then, I connected the fact that her English is not very good, to the fact that the student visa is easier. And to the fact that most schools here view this sort of thing as a business which would give them a genuine interest in helping out getting her here.
So in that way, it is a circumvention, BUT it's still a genuine one... she does want to study here... She just hadn't thought of that before I mentioned it to her. She was just thinking about being with me :-)

Just a continuation of my thoughts from my previous post above, on this thread.

That said, first time is always the hardest, Rod. If she gets through successfully the first time, and leaves the UK without any violations, it will get easier for her to enter the UK the second time!

All the best.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 24, 2018, 03:45:01 PM
Supplying photos together is meaningless to support an application - in the case of UK, at least

FAR better to support a relationship status with bookings confirming staying travel to be together - boarding cards - even better - and who paid for the travel

THE most important thing is to show financial support from you and her earning

Unless there is something to tie it all together - her with him - it is meaningless, it could have all been for tourism to Moscow for all the Immigration/Border official knows.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 24, 2018, 04:05:08 PM
I actually WAS very suspicious of that!!!!

But one of the first things she told me when we got back in touch, was that she regrets that and she spent quite some time apologizing for doing that and also for disappearing and all that. So we'll see how the new meeting in person develops.

A lot of this stuff is handy to know right at or near the beginning of your thread before responses become forthcoming as I think we can agree that we have learnt a lot more about you & your relationship with this girl as the thread has gone on. Some but not all of this information can be relevant to the type of action you need to take in order to get her in the country.

The type of information here I would say consider the relationship in your mind now. Is there mutual chemistry between the two of you? Was this apparent when you met? Did you kiss? (not including welcome & goodbye peck on the cheek, lol) Did you hold hands/arms or each other? Was there any sign of affection? Did you meet her parents, Mother and what was their reaction to you? Did she meet or see you off at the airport or train station? What did you read of her body language towards you - any points of concern?, etc.

All of this you should think of and would be handy for us to know in order to help you more. At the moment it kinds of sounds that there was a fairly placid relationship. It sounds strange to me from this placid relationship that she later calls you back with regrets - she has put forward reasons for this as you explained but I think it sounds strange none the less. I do wonder if it would be handy if you were just to take even along weekend out to see her, read what you can and find out how you feel for each other. After all you have a Brazilian passport so no visa is necessary. Although only a short visit even this will help out your case if focus were ever to shine on your relationship with her. Oh, and this time take photos of the two of you ;D   
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 24, 2018, 04:26:34 PM
A lot of this stuff is handy to know right at or near the beginning of your thread before responses become forthcoming as I think we can agree that we have learnt a lot more about you & your relationship with this girl as the thread has gone on. Some but not all of this information can be relevant to the type of action you need to take in order to get her in the country.

The type of information here I would say consider the relationship in your mind now. Is there mutual chemistry between the two of you? Was this apparent when you met? Did you kiss? (not including welcome & goodbye peck on the cheek, lol) Did you hold hands/arms or each other? Was there any sign of affection? Did you meet her parents, Mother and what was their reaction to you? Did she meet or see you off at the airport or train station? What did you read of her body language towards you - any points of concern?, etc.

All of this you should think of and would be handy for us to know in order to help you more. At the moment it kinds of sounds that there was a fairly placid relationship. It sounds strange to me from this placid relationship that she later calls you back with regrets - she has put forward reasons for this as you explained but I think it sounds strange none the less. I do wonder if it would be handy if you were just to take even along weekend out to see her, read what you can and find out how you feel for each other. After all you have a Brazilian passport so no visa is necessary. Although only a short visit even this will help out your case if focus were ever to shine on your relationship with her. Oh, and this time take photos of the two of you ;D   

Trench, I think you're overthinking it a tad.  :rolleyes: Just let Rod do his thing and let the relationship & chemistry blossom if fate allows.  :popcorn:

If I'm not mistaken yes Rod's met the lass' mother already.

Quote from fellow poster BillyB:"Paranoia will Destroya"
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: ML on January 24, 2018, 08:00:00 PM

Quote from fellow poster BillyB:"Paranoia will Destroya"

But just because you think someone is 'out to get you,' . . . doesn't mean they are not.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 25, 2018, 05:25:52 AM
But just because you think someone is 'out to get you,' . . . doesn't mean they are not.

So funny but true, it like when people say Indel King was paranoid, he wasn't paranoid it actually was happening, his wife was playing away and she did want to ditch him as soon as she qualified for green card.

Kyn, I don't think its being paranoid for Rod to question where he is really most likely at in this relationship, love may blossom or it may be a mistake. When meeting her he should go in thinking on his feet as to whether this girl is really into him or if he just wishes for a relationship with a girl. She may very well end up the love of his life all I suggest is that he appraise how things have been/are for his own mind.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 25, 2018, 05:39:52 AM
Rod,

as this is 'your' thread - you can ask a kind mod to move the 'noise' which has nothing to do with your visa question
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 25, 2018, 05:43:13 AM
hey Rod how long were you in Russia that time?  I worked in the Moscow area twice for a few months each time.  I build up a social circle the normal way, meeting people in real life. 

Trench and many others here do "trips" to Russia, Ukraine for the sole purpose of finding a girl.  That's probably why he is more worried about a girl scamming him.  The women they contact with online are much different from if you went there and met someone normally even as a tourist.

I think there is something worthwhile in doing what you do Sting. There's nothing like feeding of the energy you get from the right girls on chance encounters and through social circles. Almost like there is a natural magic to it and right time, right place feeling you don't always get with online dating. When I started looking a couple of years ago on here I was talking of just going to St. Pete's for a holiday and seeing if I could pick up a girl along the way. I got comments like, are you Brad Pitt? Do you think girls are going to fall around themselves at your presence walking along the street. Now while the honest answer is no and online dating certainly has its place/uses, I think sometimes it may be easier just wondering around - if a girl does seem to make an impact on you & vice versa it may well be a good way of going about it. Going in for the quick fly in & out is what I'm wanting to get away from this year as I don't feel for many guys that it helps the relationship situation much.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 25, 2018, 05:45:09 AM
Rod,

as this is 'your' thread - you can ask a kind mod to move the 'noise' which has nothing to do with your visa question

Its all part & parcel of the visa question moby, unless you understand where exactly Rod is at in his relationship you are adrift from giving him the specific tailored help he needs.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 25, 2018, 07:18:11 AM
Its all part & parcel of the visa question moby, unless you understand where exactly Rod is at in his relationship you are adrift from giving him the specific tailored help he needs.

Again, remind us of your 'experience' to advise him on this subject ?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 25, 2018, 07:33:41 AM
Well actually...

When I was in Ukraine and Russia, I did a lot of random walking around and believe me, you DO pick up girls on the spot there.

Just find one you like and try eye contact. I have huge green eyes so that helps but... hey.

It worked more than a couple times for me! ;-)
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Jumper on January 25, 2018, 07:51:38 AM
It's been the same question from the start,  and yes the situation matters.

He cannot, at this time, take the time needed to establish a relationship, or see if there even is one.
Her parents don't approve, or din't want her to leave,  the first time they met. Took her passport. How thats been  glossed over I'm unsure.They are allegedly out of the picture now  two years later, but will they be really? How old is she? How close is she to them? Noone here knows and it's doubtful OP truly knows.

He just wants the girl in his area. Period.
Nothing new,that is the same as most men would prefer ,but it most often isnt realistic.
We have had that question and mentality here a thousand times.

 If it was a Canadian,Australian or American asking they'd get the same advice  to make sure there is a relationship as the first thing,as his interests are not truly about anything else.  He wouldn't be doing any of  this if she wasn't hot ,and if he did not havev  romantic interests, so any of the means for her to just be in his country ,are just  too many hoops to jump thru for a girl a guy  hardly knows.

No relationship established and no means or  want of any,  means no family based visa.

Immigration on tourism or student visas are unlikely.UK or not.
And less likely given her lack of ties to home country,finances,current studies,and his finances currently.

To be fair, that bit has been done by some men,  so it's not impossible , but the advice here has  always been overall  the same to them, establish the relationship first.
Certainly most did so.Their country of residence might change whether they revealed the relationship on the visa app.
They also were in positions of having the time and funding to establish her ties to home country ,. to visit and build the relationship etc.

Otherwise they were advised to just sponsor random folk if humanitarians.

Given the scenario of the past visits limited interaction, parents not happy obviously, the time frame of two years ago , and not able to visit her again,isn't white noise.
It's the real issues , not the attempt to manipulate visa regs to suit a rather whimsical  romantic interest.They were both busy with life the last two years,understandable but not groundbreaking romance.

 This has been treated with kid gloves compared to normal, because it's an introduction thread.

Anywhere else a guy in this scenario

  would just be told they arnt in a good position to even look, at this time, regardless someone they met briefly  two years ago suddenly  popping back up on the radar.

Then they would try to do, what they already had in their mind to do before ever posting. ..
And we'd wish them luck.

Same as it ever was.

:)

 :welcome:
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: BillyB on January 25, 2018, 07:58:34 AM
So funny but true, it like when people say Indel King was paranoid, he wasn't paranoid it actually was happening, his wife was playing away and she did want to ditch him as soon as she qualified for green card.





Indle King's first marriage to a RW ended in divorce. She got a protective order after he pounded her head on a wall. Maybe it's the wall's fault.  He then married Anastasia from Kyrgyzstan. He has poor hygiene, was controlling, and threatened to kill her based off what her diary said. The last straw for Anastasia was when she caught her husband screwing his gay lover. She decided to leave and that's when King killed her. But you think she's bad because she married for the green card?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 25, 2018, 08:42:00 AM



Indle King's first marriage to a RW ended in divorce. She got a protective order after he pounded her head on a wall. Maybe it's the wall's fault.  He then married Anastasia from Kyrgyzstan. He has poor hygiene, was controlling, and threatened to kill her based off what her diary said. The last straw for Anastasia was when she caught her husband screwing his gay lover. She decided to leave and that's when King killed her. But you think she's bad because she married for the green card?

Well, it was not portrayed like that on the docudrama I watched 'Hidden Lies'. The gay element was almost no mention off. They just were portrayed as two guys that hit it off, at best any connotation was only subtlely allured to. The docudrama made it clear that she was not keeping to her end of the bargain and while they initially got on she soon saw she could get better than him. There was no mention on there of the headbanging of previous wife. So from viewing docudrama that is how it was portrayed to me, whether the relaity was much different I do not know.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 25, 2018, 08:48:41 AM
Again, remind us of your 'experience' to advise him on this subject ?

It's not experience it is just general common sense that if Rod (the OP) has not given all details then relevant details could have been missed out which affects advise given. For example Rod later told us he has a Brizillian passport which means he gets visa free for Russia. That will affect the advise he is being given even by experienced members. Some will say go either way, some will say go as it makes it even more easy while Rod says he still wishes to stay. Other examples are apparent throughout this thread.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 25, 2018, 08:53:18 AM
Well actually...

When I was in Ukraine and Russia, I did a lot of random walking around and believe me, you DO pick up girls on the spot there.

Just find one you like and try eye contact. I have huge green eyes so that helps but... hey.

It worked more than a couple times for me! ;-)

Thanks Rod for that, it's valuable info for me. I too think it's best to spend a while out there stroLL around and try to engage as many people/girls as possible if only by doing mundane stuff. The dating sites I would not rule out and people have had success but I think a lot of people make value judgements online no doubt myself included but particularly woman that they would not do in person if the attraction was there. Thereby missing out on a potentially good match.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 25, 2018, 10:32:24 AM
A LOT of assumptions there, Jumper.

The DAD was never against it. He's not in contact with her or the mom enough. They are separated and the dad lives back in Moldova, where they're originally from.

The mom works at a bar/nightclub, I've been to the place. My girl no longer lives with mom. She's living in a student housing place with roommates, but it's not inside a school, obviously because she's not actually a student.

There's nothing the parents can do to prevent anything right now, because first, they don't know she's coming. Second, she already has her passport and that's all she needs.

You're also talking as if I was ignoring everything everyone is saying. I am not. I've done that before, I had discussions on forums before I went to Ukraine and Russia, and I also posted there during the visits. That forum doesn't existe anymore, it was called Russian Meeting Place. Maybe some of you here already knew that one?

I'll post back here once I make contact with the school, and see what they say.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 25, 2018, 10:37:50 AM
Given the scenario of the past visits limited interaction, parents not happy obviously, the time frame of two years ago , and not able to visit her again,isn't white noise.
It's the real issues , not the attempt to manipulate visa regs to suit a rather whimsical  romantic interest.They were both busy with life the last two years,understandable but not groundbreaking romance.

 This has been treated with kid gloves compared to normal, because it's an introduction thread.


I agree with Jumper.  No one would be suggesting this is a good idea in any other context.


What happens if 3 weeks or 6 weeks in, the girl decides she can't stand the OP?  Is she expected to abandon her studies and return to Russia?  What if she meets someone at school she likes better?  Will she return the money in her bank account, dutifully get back on a plane, and resume her life in Russia?

Having someone so dependent on you is not an easy thing, even if you have no money problems, from both sides of the equation.


I am aware of RMP.  Full of pollyannas, most of whom are now divorced.  Did you really take the advice of a moderator there who was on his sixth marriage?  Or the moderator who claimed he was a "secret agent" when in fact, he was a security guard?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 25, 2018, 11:31:57 AM
 :D Hilarious, you see Mobers, Jumper & Boe agree with me, how good that makes me feel :D
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Jumper on January 25, 2018, 11:33:24 AM
A LOT of assumptions there, Jumper.

The DAD was never against it. He's not in contact with her or the mom enough. They are separated and the dad lives back in Moldova, where they're originally from.

The mom works at a bar/nightclub, I've been to the place. My girl no longer lives with mom. She's living in a student housing place with roommates, but it's not inside a school, obviously because she's not actually a student.

There's nothing the parents can do to prevent anything right now, because first, they don't know she's coming. Second, she already has her passport and that's all she needs.

You're also talking as if I was ignoring everything everyone is saying. I am not. I've done that before, I had discussions on forums before I went to Ukraine and Russia, and I also posted there during the visits. That forum doesn't existe anymore, it was called Russian Meeting Place. Maybe some of you here already knew that one?

I'll post back here once I make contact with the school, and see what they say.

Fair enough.

The basics remain the same:
The mother was agaisnt it enough to hold her passport , of course she's an adult and can do as she pleases.
I have a great MIL, and if she'd been against our relationship, or against us even starting one, it would have factored highly into things.

 Part of this,  since it will effect other lives than your own,  is to take into account her relationships with family.particularly since you guys havnt established a solid relationship yet.
You simply want her there, and using the visa system to attain that.

I'm not knocking it, or condoning it, I was just pointing out the normal advice that would be given.

You do seem to entertain all the input,and obviously fairly reasoned individual.
In any case  I'm pretty sure you'll go down the path you choose regardless input, it just may change how you approach the path you already choose.

It's completely normal,  expected even.
forum advice is free and varied of course lol

I actually do wish you luck. I did not mean to imply otherwise.

 And as I stated I've personally known men who brought their romantic interests on student or tourist visas, so it is possible.
 
 You do have several more challenges than they did, the most important ones being time available, and a pre established relationship.



Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Jumper on January 25, 2018, 11:41:39 AM
:D Hilarious, you see Mobers, Jumper & Boe agree with me, how good that makes me feel :D

The difference being I'm not worried she'll leave him, or run to another man.
I think.the OP can handle himself well regardless .


My concerns are for her.
Obviously younger and possibly impressionable.Likely no set path in life yet.
If the visa flops or isn't accurate it can harm her chances for another one ,a legit one, later.
Also if they don't mesh as a couple , she can just return home, it may not be a big deal.
But if it was a us student visa ,she wouldn't eligible again for any visa for some time, so dependent on regulation that can be far reaching. If it was a fiancee or family visa as long as there was no over stay it shouldn't impact anything.But those are things to find out and consider if her best interests are at heart.
She's an adult and can choose of course, but should have all the info first to make an informed decision.
Obviously if she had strong feelings and an established relationship, it changes the outlook.
Someone she doesn't know that well, with only a hope it might work out, my advice to her would be the same as it is to him.
Let time be your friend and establish a relationship worth the visa shannanigans.

*shrugs*

Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 25, 2018, 11:44:36 AM
I second Jumper's post again.  My concern is not his "sunk costs", but the interpersonal relationships and the emotional aspects of a potential failure.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 25, 2018, 12:27:16 PM
But just because you think someone is 'out to get you,' . . . doesn't mean they are not.

Well you've got to admit nothing in life is 100% risk free. I.e No matter how thoroughly pilots go through their checklists, accidents can still happen in the air. There probably comes a point of diminishing returns, where it's no longer productive to worry more than is necessary. :popcorn:
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 25, 2018, 01:33:04 PM
The difference being I'm not worried she'll leave him, or run to another man.
I think.the OP can handle himself well regardless .


My concerns are for her.
Obviously younger and possibly impressionable.Likely no set path in life yet.
If the visa flops or isn't accurate it can harm her chances for another one ,a legit one, later.
Also if they don't mesh as a couple , she can just return home, it may not be a big deal.
But if it was a us student visa ,she wouldn't eligible again for any visa for some time, so dependent on regulation that can be far reaching. If it was a fiancee or family visa as long as there was no over stay it shouldn't impact anything.But those are things to find out and consider if her best interests are at heart.
She's an adult and can choose of course, but should have all the info first to make an informed decision.
Obviously if she had strong feelings and an established relationship, it changes the outlook.
Someone she doesn't know that well, with only a hope it might work out, my advice to her would be the same as it is to him.
Let time be your friend and establish a relationship worth the visa shannanigans.

*shrugs*

I think Rod may be thinking along the lines of providing himself with a sex slave here, lol  :ROFL:
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 25, 2018, 02:02:11 PM
Ok let's see... many things to address.

First, she never asked me to go to Russia again.
I suggested that first, and she responded that with "If you come here you can't stay with me... is that ok with you?"
To which I replied "Sure, but you're staying with ME right"
She said "Duh of course".
Then we discussed it for a bit more and she said the same thing I'm saying here: "Is it worth it spending money to be here, when we can use the same amount of money for me to go see you?"
Also mentioning here that she got a job basically to HELP PAY for the expenses of her coming. And by the way, she told me today she got fired because she was late. Poor girl lasted one week in the new job.

Now, the parents. Dad isn't worth mentioning because he never expressed anything in favor or against her coming. But mom, when I was there, was nice to me. It was her birthday and I gave her a present, we actually had a nice time there, the three of us.
My girl says her mom was trying to mess with our thing because mom is JEALOUS. I didn't notice this while there, but I have to trust what she says.

Now, the concern for her: She has two options, really... she can stay there and accept her life, or try to get out. She obviously chose option 2, and after that, she could've picked ANY guy for that. I met her originally through one of the less honest sites, so I'm sure if she wanted, she could talk to a number of other guys who would be ready to get her out of there and maybe even with a higher success chance than I can.
But no, she talked to ME. She chose ME. Came after ME. After such a long time. In my experience of over 20 years of dating, for a girl this hot, that's a lot.

How is this not a legit thing? I do really intend on her coming to study english. She can only gain from coming, in every possible way. I won't make her do anything she doesn't want to do, and if maybe we have a falling out or something, I would never throw her out or anything. This also won't be the first time I bring a girl from far away to stay at my place a while and see what happens. I've had it work before, and I've also had it NOT work. I'm still friends with every single girl to this day. And, on the day she comes, the school will ALREADY be paid for, so there's no risk there.

Sex slave? Nah. If the idea was to ONLY have sex, it'd be a LOT easier, cheaper and more convenient for me to just go on the adult escort websites, or even a brothel. Manchester is FULL of them.
Or, I could just go to bars here, use tinder, etc. Do the normal stuff.
No, I like this girl. She likes me. We talk on camera and we're excited to do this. So we are doing it.
Her being young is another advantage for her. If it doesn't go well she's got more time to start over.

Also, I agree with what Kyn said. Nothing good ever comes without any risk. In fact the riskier stuff are what always bring the best rewards. Just ask people who invested in Bitcoin back in 2009.

;-)
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 25, 2018, 02:03:58 PM
I think Rod may be thinking along the lines of providing himself with a sex slave here, lol  :ROFL:

Oh dear Trench, unless you're being sarcastic, you're over-thinking this again  :deadhorse:

Why would Rod even spend £1000s of pounds just for that?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 25, 2018, 02:10:30 PM
In fact the riskier stuff are what always bring the best rewards. Just ask people who invested in Bitcoin back in 2009.

;-)

Erm, not exactly what I said. It's more about the potential rewards compared to the risk you are taking. I.e. Is it worth it?

Simply put: Risk : Reward Ratio. The lower the better.

Nb: Bitcoin is a speculative bubble now. When the music stops, many will get hurt financially.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: ML on January 25, 2018, 02:18:29 PM
In fact the riskier stuff are what always bring the best rewards.

Totally false understanding of risk/return relationship, in financial terms.
Most people have the relationship turned around backwards.

In truth, taking higher risk does not always lead to higher returns.
But earning higher returns means that you have incurred higher risk, whether you knew it or not.

Most higher risk ventures lead to no return and even negative return as you lose all your investment.  That merely follows from the definition of 'high risk.'
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 25, 2018, 02:26:54 PM
Yes it's worth it.

This girl is super hot and at the same time, REALLY nice, caring, interested, intelligent.

That's a unicorn, in my experience.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Brasscasing on January 25, 2018, 04:08:17 PM
Ok let's see... many things to address.

First, she never asked me to go to Russia again.
I suggested that first, and she responded that with "If you come here you can't stay with me... is that ok with you?"
To which I replied "Sure, but you're staying with ME right"
She said "Duh of course".

Then we discussed it for a bit more and she said the same thing I'm saying here: "Is it worth it spending money to be here, when we can use the same amount of money for me to go see you?"
Also mentioning here that she got a job basically to HELP PAY for the expenses of her coming. And by the way, she told me today she got fired because she was late. Poor girl lasted one week in the new job.

Now, the parents. Dad isn't worth mentioning because he never expressed anything in favor or against her coming. But mom, when I was there, was nice to me. It was her birthday and I gave her a present, we actually had a nice time there, the three of us.
My girl says her mom was trying to mess with our thing because mom is JEALOUS. I didn't notice this while there, but I have to trust what she says.

Now, the concern for her: She has two options, really... she can stay there and accept her life, or try to get out. She obviously chose option 2, and after that, she could've picked ANY guy for that. I met her originally through one of the less honest sites, so I'm sure if she wanted, she could talk to a number of other guys who would be ready to get her out of there and maybe even with a higher success chance than I can.
But no, she talked to ME. She chose ME. Came after ME. After such a long time. In my experience of over 20 years of dating, for a girl this hot, that's a lot.

How is this not a legit thing? I do really intend on her coming to study english. She can only gain from coming, in every possible way. I won't make her do anything she doesn't want to do, and if maybe we have a falling out or something, I would never throw her out or anything. This also won't be the first time I bring a girl from far away to stay at my place a while and see what happens. I've had it work before, and I've also had it NOT work. I'm still friends with every single girl to this day. And, on the day she comes, the school will ALREADY be paid for, so there's no risk there.

Sex slave? Nah. If the idea was to ONLY have sex, it'd be a LOT easier, cheaper and more convenient for me to just go on the adult escort websites, or even a brothel. Manchester is FULL of them.
Or, I could just go to bars here, use tinder, etc. Do the normal stuff.
No, I like this girl. She likes me. We talk on camera and we're excited to do this. So we are doing it.
Her being young is another advantage for her. If it doesn't go well she's got more time to start over.

Also, I agree with what Kyn said. Nothing good ever comes without any risk. In fact the riskier stuff are what always bring the best rewards. Just ask people who invested in Bitcoin back in 2009.

;-)

Ah. I took this  ..."She asked me if I wanted to see her in Russia again. It was my idea to instead get her to come here"...

As meaning something different to what you've related above (my bolded).

Brass

 
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: BillyB on January 25, 2018, 04:58:00 PM
Well, it was not portrayed like that on the docudrama I watched 'Hidden Lies'. The gay element was almost no mention off. They just were portrayed as two guys that hit it off, at best any connotation was only subtlely allured to. The docudrama made it clear that she was not keeping to her end of the bargain and while they initially got on she soon saw she could get better than him. There was no mention on there of the headbanging of previous wife. So from viewing docudrama that is how it was portrayed to me, whether the relaity was much different I do not know.




The docudrama was written by who? King killed his wife. Justifiable punishment if true she was after the green card? Once a woman learns about King, an abuser, loser and possessing the mind of a murderer, they are wise to leave. This mess happened in the Seattle area near me so I had to read plenty in the local paper. Article below sums it up pretty good.




http://www.network54.com/Search/view/84302/982278130/Only+in+America+%28part+four%29+---Murder+of+a+Russian+in+Seattle---?term=warehouse&page=2084
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 25, 2018, 07:14:55 PM
Ok, I'll look it up later in he morning Billy, many thanks for the link.

Rod, which agency site was the girl from, no let me guess was it Anastasia Date?

I think it might well be the case as said before that not many men visit. So despite being hot she may lack guys at all to move to and/or guys that she got on at all with. It sounds like there is a fair old age gap between the two of you? Possibly she may be into you to at least some extent. I think the main thing though with smoking hot women is that once in the UK they WILL be hit on by every guy going. As such they are a big risk particularly when taking them to a big city. If her going of with another guy in a very shot period doesn't bother you then fine but make no mistake she will have plenty of options.

The other thing is her ability to hold down a job, I get the impression it's something she struggles with. Possibly the aency job was just another mishap for her along the way, perhaps she us still doing it writing letters at night and being too tired for her other work in the morning who knows. I think losing her job makes her situation even more dire and she was not well placed to start with. I see what you are saying makes sense in terms of getting progress in on the relationship Rod as a real domestic relationship but I think that you are a bit up stream and are not likely to get there in one move.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 25, 2018, 11:53:50 PM
I think the main thing though with smoking hot women is that once in the UK they WILL be hit on by every guy going. As such they are a big risk particularly when taking them to a big city. If her going of with another guy in a very shot period doesn't bother you then fine but make no mistake she will have plenty of options.

This has NOTHING to do with Rod's visa question - just our Trench's insecurities...  Hot women get hit on - anywhere..  If it makes you 'jealous' then you're the problem.

The other thing is her ability to hold down a job, I get the impression it's something she struggles with. Possibly the aency job was just another mishap for her along the way, perhaps she us still doing it writing letters at night and being too tired for her other work in the morning who knows. I think losing her job makes her situation even more dire and she was not well placed to start with. I see what you are saying makes sense in terms of getting progress in on the relationship Rod as a real domestic relationship but I think that you are a bit up stream and are not likely to get there in one move.

Trench, as you've not got any experience of UK/ EU Visa applications with a FSU partner - why is it you're now posting as if you're a 'relationship expert'  ?....
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Blighty on January 26, 2018, 05:23:35 AM
... and the dad lives back in Moldova, where they're originally from.


Moldova was part of Romania until Stalin annexed it in 1945. If she has grandparents or great-grandparents who were Romanian citizens then she could claim Romanian/EU citizenship by descent. A summary of the rules is given at http://www.romaniandocuments.net/romanian-citizenship-by-descent and elsewhere on the internet.

Other FSU people can sometimes claim Polish and (Volga) German citizenship by descent.

Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 26, 2018, 05:32:52 AM
This has NOTHING to do with Rod's visa question - just our Trench's insecurities...  Hot women get hit on - anywhere..  If it makes you 'jealous' then you're the problem.

Trench, as you've not got any experience of UK/ EU Visa applications with a FSU partner - why is it you're now posting as if you're a 'relationship expert'  ?....

Mobe, you're Irish so not a UK guy like me ;D Anyway, we are basically saying the same thing you just have a need to always see your take on anything as superior. Anyway, with Rod's situation deteriorating by the day with his girl now out of work it seems like an almost impossible reach to get her in the country. I understand your reasoning Rod and although you can try whenever you wish I don't see that it's likely to work at this moment in time. It's why I asked about the personal side if we did not know this then we would be widely off target in the advice we give. I recommend to Rod that he do a long weekend. This is feasible from the UK, he will see her in person again where feelingS are better than felt than the other side of a computer screen. It shouldn't detract to much from his attempt to find work or if he has work will likely be able to get a day off for a hospital appointment or similar such excuse. I think it's the best option you have a the moment Rod.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 26, 2018, 05:51:48 AM
Moldova was part of Romania until Stalin annexed it in 1945. If she has grandparents or great-grandparents who were Romanian citizens then she could claim Romanian/EU citizenship by descent. A summary of the rules is given at http://www.romaniandocuments.net/romanian-citizenship-by-descent and elsewhere on the internet.

Other FSU people can sometimes claim Polish and (Volga) German citizenship by descent.

Hope this helps.

You might be on to something here!!! This would make every problem go away!!! Will look into it.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 26, 2018, 05:55:29 AM
Trench, my friend. You’re too insecure, man! You will definitely never get a girl like that. Definitely not a hot one. Come on!!!
I don’t care if 397 guys hit on her. It’s already happening over in russia, she tells me about it.
I am a better option, because she WANTS ME.
Get it?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 26, 2018, 06:13:50 AM
Trench, my friend. You’re too insecure, man! You will definitely never get a girl like that. Definitely not a hot one. Come on!!!
I don’t care if 397 guys hit on her. It’s already happening over in russia, she tells me about it.
I am a better option, because she WANTS ME.
Get it?

as you can probably tell Trench doesn't have much real firsthand experience with the ladies.  He's worried about them leaving before he can even find one! 

If you've ever had a girl call or message you daily, tell you she wants to talk to you and hear your voice the last thing you are thinking about is  will she leave you for another guy.  You are thinking how do I strengthen the bond and relationship and keep it going.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 26, 2018, 06:18:55 AM
as you can probably tell Trench doesn't have much real firsthand experience with the ladies.  He's worried about them leaving before he can even find one! 

If you've ever had a girl call or message you daily, tell you she wants to talk to you and hear your voice the last thing you are thinking about is  will she leave you for another guy.  You are thinking how do I strengthen the bond and relationship and keep it going.

We musicians understand one another.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 26, 2018, 06:43:18 AM
Trench, my friend. You’re too insecure, man! You will definitely never get a girl like that. Definitely not a hot one. Come on!!!
I don’t care if 397 guys hit on her. It’s already happening over in russia, she tells me about it.
I am a better option, because she WANTS ME.
Get it?

She's decided that after a two year period of non communication and a visit where she only wanted to spend one of the three available you had with you and in which you were not even cosy enough to have a photo of her or the two of you together. So WHY is she now into you, perhaps there is a decent reason BUT is she really into an aging Musician as her prime concern. Remember unless she is completely stupid she is going to know contacting a guy back after all that and suggesting she come to you would look suspicious so naturally she would invite you to see her so she could convince you she has the big love for you.

The job going, you have no idea if this is just to place it all on you. You have no idea if she has lost her job or has a load of money in savings - to go her own way once in the door? Who knows, maybe, maybe not. Thing is unless you go out there you ate on the dark on any of this. She might be the real deal but there is a big age gap between the two of you - the local guys don't have the money, etc that UK guys do, she knows what she's worth ;)
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 26, 2018, 06:58:54 AM
She's decided that after a two year period of non communication and a visit where she only wanted to spend one of the three available you had with you and in which you were not even cosy enough to have a photo of her or the two of you together. So WHY is she now into you, perhaps there is a decent reason BUT is she really into an aging Musician as her prime concern.


I believe Rod is younger than you Trench and pretty sure not an "aging musician"...I don't recall him mentioning the age of his girl either.  So you really have no idea what their age gap is, nor is that even a big concern.

Again your lack of common sense is showing.  If a girl wanted to scam someone why would she wait 2 years to bother contacting him?

Perhaps you'd be better off focusing on finding your own girl.  I sense some jealously in your tone of voice.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Jumper on January 26, 2018, 09:11:17 AM
Sting,
I think Rod has a decent grasp on it, and it's likely she's
sincerely  interested.

That said:
Just for fun let's speculate that our boy trench posted the following scenario-

1.I met a girl 2 years ago thru an infamous pay per letter/pay chat agency .
2.she seemed genuinelyinterested the week I was there,
But ultimately we only saw each other briefly and not much materialized as she said her mother was jealous and took her passport etc.
(No agency girl has ever made excuse not to really see a guy before right?)
So we lost touch and went on with life.

3.she recently contacted me, a bbit out of the blue, about meeting again.maybe I could come visit.
Says she moved out from mothers place attending university.

4. I'm unable to visit her as I'm unemployed and have job interviews, or will start work soon and limited time off.

So I want to bring her on a tourist or student visa.
She's young,hot, no ties to russia.

5.I've been scammed before,so I know what that looks like, and this isn't it, she wants ME.


The forum would clue bat trenchie to death.
 :cluebat:

LOL

He would be told he better get to know her a bit first at minimum.

But the general message is different deoending on who posts it.
Thats interesting!


And look I'm not saying it's scam or an agency girl who just went thru her old contacts after something else dint work out, but to pretend its not one if the many possibilities is being naive as well.


Rod,  this is just goofing around , your visa stuff is pretty much answered.

I'm.just pointing out the mob mentality, would have trench hung out to dry , while you've gotten pretty much a free pass.
:)


Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 26, 2018, 09:12:25 AM
I believe Rod is younger than you Trench and pretty sure not an "aging musician"...I don't recall him mentioning the age of his girl either.  So you really have no idea what their age gap is, nor is that even a big concern.

Again your lack of common sense is showing.  If a girl wanted to scam someone why would she wait 2 years to bother contacting him?

Perhaps you'd be better off focusing on finding your own girl.  I sense some jealously in your tone of voice.

Rod mentioned she was young (very young) hot, etc - from other clues he has given such as stating he has 20 years of dating we can deduce that even if he started dating around the age of 15 he would be about 35. Odds are he would be early thirties at the youngest but most likely knocking on to 40 which is around my age.

I don't think she is a scammer, she could just be fed up off where she is lives, her life, etc Could be any number if things. She sounds like she is a nice girl but something tells me there might be more to this than meets the eye as it all sounds a bit strange.

Yes you are right on one thing though, I will be aiming to shortly take some time out as it's coming to the time when my own search needs to be put back in motion again :)
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 26, 2018, 09:40:25 AM
Sting,
I think Rod has a decent grasp on it, and it's likely she's
sincerely  interested.

That said:
Just for fun let's speculate that our boy trench posted the following scenario-


Jumper, true.  that's probably because of Trench's history and previous interactions that would lead us to a different conclusion.

I don't know Rod's history but he seems like a well adjusted guy.  He's met this girl once already.  So he has a better idea if she's really into him or just using him.

We on a forum are not privy to any of that. 

There's always a chance it could be a "scam" but I don't really see her using him.  She suggested he come back to Russia.  The UK thing wasn't even an option until he told her he was there.

The relationship dynamic can always change.  Once you deal with enough women you get better at figuring out their true intentions.


Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 26, 2018, 09:40:52 AM
I believe Rod is younger than you Trench and pretty sure not an "aging musician"...I don't recall him mentioning the age of his girl either.  So you really have no idea what their age gap is, nor is that even a big concern.

Again your lack of common sense is showing.  If a girl wanted to scam someone why would she wait 2 years to bother contacting him?

Perhaps you'd be better off focusing on finding your own girl.  I sense some jealously in your tone of voice.

Rod mentioned she was young (very young) hot, etc - from other clues he has given such as stating he has 20 years of dating we can deduce that even if he started dating around the age of 15 he would be about 35. Odds are he would be early thirties at the youngest but most likely knocking on to 40 which is around my age.

I don't think she is a scammer, she could just be fed up off where she is lives, her life, etc Could be any number if things. She sounds like she is a nice girl but something tells me there might be more to this than meets the eye as it all sounds a bit strange.

Yes you are right on one thing though, I will be aiming to shortly take some time out as it's coming to the time when my own search needs to be put back in motion again :)

Finding a day job when you're 36 and you've only played music for your entire life, when you're a foreigner in a new country with NO connections, can be a bit tricky, all right?

 :wallbash: It's already mentioned upthread by Rod that he is 36 years old. No guesswork needed.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 26, 2018, 12:14:20 PM
Yeah. Visa questions have been answered!

Now I'm just having fun here. But, keeping it going has proven worth it: The Moldova/Romania path seems PERFECT.

If we can pull it off and she becomes a Romanian citizen, we're home free! Visa becomes a non issue, as Romania is part of the EU, mission accomplished.

THIS would be a reason for me to go to her. Meet in Moscow, then go to Moldova see her grandparents and get her citizenship. We will see.
It would be worth it because in this situation, she could even come back with me already, provided her new passport is ready quick enough.

Fingers crossed!
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 26, 2018, 12:19:38 PM
Speaking of fun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=incSwssUyp4&t=7s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=incSwssUyp4&t=7s)
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 26, 2018, 12:52:36 PM
Yeah. Visa questions have been answered!

Now I'm just having fun here. But, keeping it going has proven worth it: The Moldova/Romania path seems PERFECT.

If we can pull it off and she becomes a Romanian citizen, we're home free! Visa becomes a non issue, as Romania is part of the EU, mission accomplished.

THIS would be a reason for me to go to her. Meet in Moscow, then go to Moldova see her grandparents and get her citizenship. We will see.
It would be worth it because in this situation, she could even come back with me already, provided her new passport is ready quick enough.

Fingers crossed!

Well looks like I've trumped old Mobers :D, if I had not started to ask about the personal side of it all and hence learning about the Moldova Grandparents we would all now still be listening to Moby banging on about visa issues going around in circles. Fortunately for all our sanity that is no longer the case. So good one Rod, how old is the girl anyway?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 26, 2018, 12:59:26 PM
Mobe, you're Irish so not a UK guy like me 

Countless thousands died over this - so much for your 'joke' .. My UK passport mos defo says I'm British..   

@Rod

Blighty might have come up trumps for you..



Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Blighty on January 26, 2018, 01:22:26 PM
@Rod

Just be cautious about Moldova as Russians are the second largest ethnic minority there ... there is the potential problem of her grandparents actually being ethnic Russians living in the breakaway Transnistria region. This conflict started in 1992 and it is a no-go area for foreigners.

Be very diplomatic with the girl over this, as my wife felt a little insulted when I asked this question ... to her Moldova is like a primitive village when compared to Ukraine!
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: alex330 on January 26, 2018, 01:39:23 PM
my wife felt a little insulted when I asked this question ... to her Moldova is like a primitive village when compared to Ukraine!


Moldovans and Georgians are two nationalities that enter Ukraine to work. Generally low paying jobs and labor. They are generally looked down on and there are jokes made about them. It would be like the Mexicans here in the US. Not sure what a comparable group would be in the UK.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 26, 2018, 01:44:55 PM

Moldovans and Georgians are two nationalities that enter Ukraine to work. Generally low paying jobs and labor. They are generally looked down on and there are jokes made about them. It would be like the Mexicans here in the US. Not sure what a comparable group would be in the UK.

The trenchcoat...ians
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 26, 2018, 01:48:24 PM

Moldovans and Georgians are two nationalities that enter Ukraine to work. Generally low paying jobs and labor. They are generally looked down on and there are jokes made about them. It would be like the Mexicans here in the US. Not sure what a comparable group would be in the UK.


Probably regional.  In Bukovyna, for example, the border is porous. 
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 26, 2018, 01:51:08 PM
@Rod

Just be cautious about Moldova as Russians are the second largest ethnic minority there ... there is the potential problem of her grandparents actually being ethnic Russians living in the breakaway Transnistria region. This conflict started in 1992 and it is a no-go area for foreigners.

Be very diplomatic with the girl over this, as my wife felt a little insulted when I asked this question ... to her Moldova is like a primitive village when compared to Ukraine!

Really tricky to prove Romanian citizenship going back over 70 years. Blighty, as far as I understand, doesn't matter if ethnic Russians or not, it is question of Romanian citizenship or if taken with Russian takeover. It could also be an ancestor moving to Moldova area sometime in 20th century.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 26, 2018, 01:53:48 PM
It can't be too tricky, as Romania has been handing out passports to Ukrainians like candy, for several years now.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 26, 2018, 01:56:36 PM
It can't be too tricky, as Romania has been handing out passports to Ukrainians like candy, for several years now.

Maybe but I don't know anyone who has got any of that candy. )) Has it been only to the wealthy??
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 26, 2018, 01:57:59 PM
No.  It is probably more prevalent in Western Ukraine, as a lot of Western Ukrainians have at least one Romanian ancestor.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 26, 2018, 02:19:27 PM
The trenchcoat...ians

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 26, 2018, 02:31:39 PM
Here's what she said:

Apparently it takes 3 months.

But she knows people who did it in a day, for 100$.

I'm guessing she means euros?

But yeah, I'm not surprised at all. I was sure there would be a pay-to-win solution. Here we go, gentlemen!

Planning the trip right now. I will make you all happy and go to Russia.
But with a WORTHWHILE PURPOSE!
We will make a trip out of it and go to Moldova to get this sorted out.
I'm not a drinker but I hear Moldova has nice wine.
Stay tuned.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Blighty on January 26, 2018, 02:39:14 PM
She just has to prove that one of her 16 great-grandparents had Romanian citizenship prior to 1945.

It is like doing the family history ... the grandparents should be able to give some background on this subject ... then look at the civil registration records in Moldova and Romania ...

http://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Romania_Civil_Registration
http://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Moldova_Civil_Registration

@Rod ... Good luck in this matter, and let us know how it works out.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 26, 2018, 02:42:34 PM
Only FIVE posts and already THE most useful contributor !

Well done, mate
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 26, 2018, 03:06:20 PM
Here's what she said:

Apparently it takes 3 months.

But she knows people who did it in a day, for 100$.

I'm guessing she means euros?


Romanian Citizenship in just 3 months?? Dubious I am, unless there's bribery involved.

She'll also need a Schengen Visa to enter Romania I think, unless she applies for the citizenship remotely from Russia.

All the Best Rod  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 26, 2018, 03:12:40 PM
What do you think the $100 are for? Of course there's bribery ahahahahah!!!
I'm from Brazil so I'm well familiarized with the concept.

Think about it. A passport is a printed paper. Sure, it's special so it can't be copied, and the cover has a microchip in it.
But every passport cover from the same country is exactly the same, except for the code they put into the chip.
How long does it take you to print a couple pages of colored material?
A few SECONDS?

How stupid is it that something like that should take 3 MONTHS? The only way I can see that justified, would be if EVERY citizen in the entire country, that's not that big anyway, orders a passport at the same time, and they use only one printer to do all of them. Which, no matter how small the country is, cannot be true.

I will go as far as say they put the delay in place on purpose, to "motivate" people into paying the bribe.
Brazil does this with driver's licenses and everything else you can possibly imagine as far as documents go.

Back to the matter at hand, she also said she does have a grandma in Moldova, so we're golden. She also did say she'd need to practice her speech because she hasn't spoken Romanian in a while...
And we might have to lie to grandma that we're engaged. Little detail. Ahahahaha I am so excited, this will make an amazing story even if it goes wrong.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 26, 2018, 03:54:14 PM
She just has to prove that one of her 16 great-grandparents had Romanian citizenship prior to 1945.

 

Still trying to figure that one Blighty???? Maybe she might have 32 great-grandparents with Romanian citizenship....gives better odds I guess!!! 

As for me, I only have 8.... but I guess ANYTHING I possible!!

 
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Blighty on January 26, 2018, 04:09:03 PM
@LAman ... OK my maths was wrong! ... only 8 great-grandparents ... but she just needs to prove Romanian descent for a passport ... late last year, the British Press reported that official figures showed that 7,000 Moldovans had entered the UK using this method ... so it is possible!

@msmob ... thanks for the compliment ... I am here to help people with my knowledge and experience!
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 26, 2018, 04:16:20 PM
Here's what she said:

Apparently it takes 3 months.

But she knows people who did it in a day, for 100$.

I'm guessing she means euros?

But yeah, I'm not surprised at all. I was sure there would be a pay-to-win solution. Here we go, gentlemen!

Planning the trip right now. I will make you all happy and go to Russia.
But with a WORTHWHILE PURPOSE!
We will make a trip out of it and go to Moldova to get this sorted out.
I'm not a drinker but I hear Moldova has nice wine.
Stay tuned.

As usual Rod, your mind works much faster than the rest of the world. You make it sound like a piece of cake. Go to Moldova, see grandma, file papers and get citizenship in one day. All for 100 euros?

Check this one out:

http://kingofromania.com/2017/06/23/how-to-get-a-romanian-passport/

This one is couple years back:

http://eleanorknott.wordpress.com/2015/12/21/as-a-moldovan-its-not-so-easy-to-get-romanian-citizenship-and-a-romanianeu-passport/

but don't let me burst any bubbles!!!

I do agree Rod, the Modovian wine is very good. Maybe you will time to visit a winery and celebrate!!


Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 26, 2018, 04:18:52 PM
@LAman ... OK my maths was wrong! ... only 8 great-grandparents ... but she just needs to prove Romanian descent for a passport ... late last year, the British Press reported that official figures showed that 7,000 Moldovans had entered the UK using this method ... so it is possible!

@msmob ... thanks for the compliment ... I am here to help people with my knowledge and experience!

Blighty, it's good I have 10 fingers and 10 toes or I would be in trouble!!! ))

Curious Blighty, how many of those 7000 were Russian?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 26, 2018, 04:32:16 PM
Rod, I found an article that can fast track citizenship process, albeit 5 years old, but they are in Chisinau!!!




BTW- if you need anything in Chisinau, Moldova, a close friend lives there. Maybe I can ask him about what is going on there re: Romanian citizenship?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 26, 2018, 04:35:35 PM
Ok I just read those.

I'm not seeing anything that's any different from what I had to do, to get my Portuguese passport, and comparatively, Portugal is HARDER:

My grandparents are Portuguese.
My parents are not.
Portugal doesn't allow getting it only through grandparents (like Romania does).
For me to get it, my dad had to get it.
Problem is, when my grandparents landed in Brazil, they only had one office to register everyone. In Rio de Janeiro.
Since then, they split it into multiple offices, and the order of what documents went where, is random.
So my dad had to go to Rio and go to each one, until he found grandma's records.
Then he had to get his citizenship. That took 6 months.
Then finally, I got mine. Another 6 months.

From what I see on the articles you posted, our strategy is in good shape. Worst case scenario, it will take 3 months. Which is what I was counting on, with the UK visa anyway. Except this makes her fully legal here, so it's a LOT better.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 26, 2018, 04:36:37 PM
Rod, I found an article that can fast track citizenship process, albeit 5 years old, but they are in Chisinau!!!




BTW- if you need anything in Chisinau, Moldova, a close friend lives there. Maybe I can ask him about what is going on there re: Romanian citizenship?

I would appreciate it very much. We need all the help we can get.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 26, 2018, 04:47:50 PM
Ok I just read those.

 From what I see on the articles you posted, our strategy is in good shape. Worst case scenario, it will take 3 months. Which is what I was counting on, with the UK visa anyway. Except this makes her fully legal here, so it's a LOT better.

Rod, did you read the current one(first one)?

1. 500-1000 euros to do paperwork and acquire birth certificate

2. after submitting paperwork, can take a year or more to get citizenship papers

3. and after this, about 90 days to get passport
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 26, 2018, 05:05:05 PM
BTW Rod, thanks for the entertaining thread beats any frickin political talk that controls this site.

And I earned a little about the process for others.

To be honest with you, you are doing/going to do.....a lot for someone you know little about her true motives.

To get it straight, who first invited who to Russia and who first invited who to UK?(current)
 2 posts of yours said different things.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 26, 2018, 05:24:30 PM
That crapload of money is to obtain a certificate if they DON'T HAVE ONE. Which I'm in the process of finding out.
But, considering the English school here costs 1000 POUNDS a month, which is more than 1000 euros, I'd pay the 1k euros happily.
If grandma is already a citizen, which from what she told me, she is, there's also no one year to wait for citizenship papers.
And the 90 days are bribable. Even if they aren't, again, that's better than waiting 3 months on a UK visa that might get denied. Still better.

I've done a lot for a lot of people in my life, and that includes friends. For instance there's three other girls out there who have passports because I gave them passports. There's at least 5 girls out there driving cars because I taught them and paid for their licenses.
The list goes on.
I work like this: I am going to do my very best for the girl, as long as we intend to be together. If it doesn't work, fine, there's 8 billion people on the planet, I'll find another one. But at least, they walk away with something great from me. For life.
If their intentions are less than honorable, karma will come back to bite them in the ass eventually. I'm confident in that so I don't worry, my friend.

Now, here's, again, the Russia story:
I went to Ukraine first. Had an ok time there. But met many girls and stayed only a couple days with each. I was testing the waters (the original reason to chase FSU women, was that I was disappointed with american women, so my boss at the time, a Russian who is still a dear friend of mine, advised me to go and check out FSU women. So I did)
The second time around, I met this girl online and we connected a little better than most so the Russia trip was mostly about meeting HER. But, learning from the Ukraine trip, I went with caution, so I also met a couple other girls. This was especially good since, as stated, I didn't spend the entire time with her because her mother ruined everything (although when talking to ME, she was nice enough, if only a little suspicious, which is understandable, I have no idea what impression she had of Brazil and/or brazilians).

That trip was supposed to be followed by HER visit to Brazil but of course, mom and her stunts, took the passport and that didn't happen and we eventually kinda gave up. Brazil was too far, too expensive, too difficult.

Me coming to the UK has nothing to do with her.
I was supposed to stay in the US but failed to get a visa there after graduating from Berklee (www.berklee.edu).
Back in Brazil I was dilligent in leaving there so I tried Canada, but they denied my student visa.
So... being a Portuguese citizen, what is the one country that only speaks English, so I wouldn't have to learn a new language, and where I can still work with rock music?
UK, of course. And here I am.

When she emailed me and we got back in touch, she didn't know I was here.

You know the rest, I guess.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 26, 2018, 06:36:02 PM

I've done a lot for a lot of people in my life, and that includes friends. For instance there's three other girls out there who have passports because I gave them passports. There's at least 5 girls out there driving cars because I taught them and paid for their licenses.
The list goes on.
I work like this: I am going to do my very best for the girl, as long as we intend to be together. If it doesn't work, fine, there's 8 billion people on the planet, I'll find another one. But at least, they walk away with something great from me. For life.


Great attitude to have Rod. when you are generous with others you get it back so much more.  I think playing music in a band really is a microcosm of how life and society works.  When people are in sync there is a collective energy.  If someone's rushing or playing odd rhythms it throws everyone else off. 

And we all know the guys who solo too long or tries to take over the direction of the music.  It just causes friction.  I think I've met all personalities through music.

This Moldovian passport route sounds like a good long term plan.  Hope it all comes together smoothly.

Btw, what's the big differences between Brazilian and Russian/Ukrainian girls?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 26, 2018, 07:09:19 PM
Great attitude to have Rod. when you are generous with others you get it back so much more.  I think playing music in a band really is a microcosm of how life and society works.  When people are in sync there is a collective energy.  If someone's rushing or playing odd rhythms it throws everyone else off. 

And we all know the guys who solo too long or tries to take over the direction of the music.  It just causes friction.  I think I've met all personalities through music.

This Moldovian passport route sounds like a good long term plan.  Hope it all comes together smoothly.

Btw, what's the big differences between Brazilian and Russian/Ukrainian girls?

The thighs and the booty of course!! ))
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 26, 2018, 08:39:40 PM
Great attitude to have Rod. when you are generous with others you get it back so much more.  I think playing music in a band really is a microcosm of how life and society works.  When people are in sync there is a collective energy.  If someone's rushing or playing odd rhythms it throws everyone else off. 

And we all know the guys who solo too long or tries to take over the direction of the music.  It just causes friction.  I think I've met all personalities through music.

This Moldovian passport route sounds like a good long term plan.  Hope it all comes together smoothly.

Btw, what's the big differences between Brazilian and Russian/Ukrainian girls?

Wow. You are a weird jazz musician.

Jazz is actually ALL about odd rhythms, everyone playing a different one at the same time and the more solos the better!

Are you sure you're not a closet rocker? ;-)

Here's a quick comparison between US, BR and UA girls.

US is all about appearances. They have better tricks to fool you into thinking they're hot. Check out Jenna Marbles' youtube channel. She actually has TUTORIALS on this. These girls can't do anything. They can't kiss, can't dance, can't dress (not really), can't cook, these are cold, stiff women, who will treat a date like a job interview, especially if you're not from the US. MANY US girls popped the "do you want a visa" question at me on the first date. Way to be rude. And don't get me started on that stupid feminism #metoo crap going on over there.

BR girls are more homely. In Brazil they don't leave home until they're married. Most girls know how to at least make a cup of coffee. Brazilians are attached to their families (mine is 100 people), they make friends easy and there's nobody on this planet who can party like a brazilian. This extends to girls. But, they have that latina blood. This means, they get hurt once, forget it. They are damaged goods forever and if you're nice, you will suffer for every bad guy who came before you. It will take a LONG time before they finally get over it and see that you're different. By then, they already destroyed all the feelings you had for them. Too late.

UA girls... here's a story: A village of about 100 people got attacked by an army 10 times the size. They resisted for months, until finally the commander of the larger army decided to offer a truce to talk to these people out of respect. One came out. The commander said "Out of respect for your bravery and strength, we will allow your women and children to pass unharmed, carrying whatever they can on their backs". The guy from the small village went back inside.
Moments later, the women came out... carrying the MEN on their backs.

See the difference?
To be blunt about the points I raised:
UA girls can kiss. Warm, affectionate and sexy as all hell, they can also DRESS. And you don't get spooked when you throw them under the shower, they are pretty FOR REAL, unlike the Americans. I actually took girls to WATER PARKS for the first date in the US to avoid this.
I had some of the best sex of my life in Ukraine (and that's saying a LOT for a Brazilian, trust me on that)
When a guy hurts a UA girl, she will brush it off like it's nothing, she knows it's his loss. And she won't lash out at the next one. She understands.
The Ukrainian girls were coming to my apartment and cooking MEALS for me on the first day. These are women who are raised to be wives. Brazil has a little of this but they're too proud and damaged.
Also, Americans, as we know, have little interest for anything that's outside of their borders. Brazilian girls mostly suffer this too. The family attachment can be a hindrance here, they don't want to leave everything behind to go away with you.
This is boring to me. I'm a guy who's been to over 10 countries. I need someone who says YES to things.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Blighty on January 27, 2018, 04:31:29 AM
Curious Blighty, how many of those 7000 were Russian?

That information is not recorded ... this is a simple measure of the number of people born in Moldova who have entered the UK on a Romanian passport.

She will be questioned by Border Control about her reasons for visiting the UK. I get questioned on my return to the UK from Ukraine. They are just checking if I am a genuine traveller on legal business!
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 27, 2018, 04:51:22 AM
How exciting .... I've not been questioned by the UK border folks when entering the UK since the troubles ended.. and I've been coming in from Russia, Israel, and been to other Middle Eastern places via Cyprus ..
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Blighty on January 27, 2018, 05:58:47 AM
Depends where you live ... I'm north of the Watford Gap and use a regional airport ... everyone gets the same questioning ... the UKBA have to justify their jobs and have some excitement in their boring days at a regional airport!
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 27, 2018, 06:02:41 AM
I normally fly via Manchester or Heathrow - via Turkish or Brussels Airways ...  to Istanbul or Moscow

You'd think the former might 'qualify' me  - if not the latter ..;)
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: lyndontom on January 27, 2018, 09:57:20 AM
I normally fly via Manchester or Heathrow - via Turkish or Brussels Airways ...  to Istanbul or Moscow

You'd think the former might 'qualify' me  - if not the latter .. ;)


Never had a problem either entering on British passport, irrespective of origin of travel. Also done Turkish airlines most often. Most days now, through immigration on automated passport machine and straight through in minutes. Not disputing that it doesn't happen, but if coming into the UK on a UK passport, why would they ask?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: lyndontom on January 27, 2018, 10:01:05 AM
Ok I just read those.

I'm not seeing anything that's any different from what I had to do, to get my Portuguese passport, and comparatively, Portugal is HARDER:


I'm not disputing that the process isn't lengthy, but don't the Portuguese give out passports to Brazilians and those from Guinea Buissau without much hesitation?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 27, 2018, 10:16:17 AM
MANY US girls popped the "do you want a visa" question at me on the first date. Way to be rude. And don't get me started on that stupid feminism #metoo crap going on over there.

Many US posters here are concerned about scammers, including green card scammers, so it's not just AW asking this question.

#metoo may have gone too far now, but it is not "crap".  You've never been a woman who has been sexually harassed.
Quote
UA girls... here's a story: A village of about 100 people got attacked by an army 10 times the size. They resisted for months, until finally the commander of the larger army decided to offer a truce to talk to these people out of respect. One came out. The commander said "Out of respect for your bravery and strength, we will allow your women and children to pass unharmed, carrying whatever they can on their backs". The guy from the small village went back inside.
Moments later, the women came out... carrying the MEN on their backs.

You do know that never happened, right?

Quote
UA girls can kiss.
You can thank UM for that.

Quote
Warm, affectionate and sexy as all hell, they can also DRESS.


I call it "flower and bee".  UW, on average, dress more provocatively because men there have more options so the women have to stand out.
Quote
I had some of the best sex of my life in Ukraine (and that's saying a LOT for a Brazilian, trust me on that)

Again, thank UM.

Quote
When a guy hurts a UA girl, she will brush it off like it's nothing, she knows it's his loss. And she won't lash out at the next one. She understands.

BWAHAHA.  All that means is that the UW you were hooking up with were leeches.  No normal UW would just brush off a man's bad behaviour with no feelings. I have witnessed first hand some of their "revenge" plots. 

Saturday mornings, I call a number of relatives in Ukraine.  So, I asked three men, one in his twenties, two in their thirties, if in their experience, your statement is true.  They nearly laughed me off the phone.  The one in his late thirties just recently married, after changing girlfriends frequently, anywhere from six to twenty four months, usually after living with them, since about age 22.  His mother was worried about this pattern, as he'd move in with them after a few weeks of dating, then eventually dump them.  His mother was usually the one answering the phone when they called looking for him.  Sometimes, even their mothers would come to her, begging her to speak to him and take their daughters back.

Quote
These are women who are raised to be wives.

Again, too broad a statement.  Most Ukrainians, I agree, do know how to cook.  But not all do.  If they are normal, they are raised to want families, not to be a wife.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 27, 2018, 10:25:19 AM
Knew that put-down was coming ...   ;) 
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 27, 2018, 10:26:31 AM
It's not a put down.  Just a dose of reality. >:D
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 27, 2018, 11:11:36 AM
Saturday mornings, I call a number of relatives in Ukraine.  So, I asked three men, one in his twenties, two in their thirties, if in their experience, your statement is true.  They nearly laughed me off the phone.  The one in his late thirties just recently married, after changing girlfriends frequently, anywhere from six to twenty four months,, usually after living with them, since about age 22.  His mother was worried about this pattern, as he'd move in with them after a few weeks of dating, then eventually dump them.  His mother was usually the one answering the phone when they called looking for him.  Sometimes, even their mothers would come to her, begging her to speak to him and take them back.

Oh the life I could have lived in the Ukraine, ahh :)
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 27, 2018, 11:20:57 AM
US is all about appearances. They have better tricks to fool you into thinking they're hot. Check out Jenna Marbles' youtube channel. She actually has TUTORIALS on this. These girls can't do anything. They can't kiss, can't dance, can't dress (not really), can't cook, these are cold, stiff women, who will treat a date like a job interview, especially if you're not from the US. MANY US girls popped the "do you want a visa" question at me on the first date. Way to be rude. And don't get me started on that stupid feminism #metoo crap going on over there.

Completely agree Rod, pretty similar here with UK girls, they've been brainwashed into putting careers as the be all and end all. Then there is all the metoo feminist stompede to see men as the enemy. UK girls here to are often cold, aloof and often view men in demeaning way from the outset. You see guys it's not just me that has seen this.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 27, 2018, 11:27:25 AM
Completely agree Rod, pretty similar here with UK girls, they've been brainwashed into putting careers as the be all and end all. Then there is all the metoo feminist stompede to see men as the enemy. UK girls here to are often cold, aloof and often view men in demeaning way from the outset. You see guys it's not just me that has seen this.

Posted by a clueless misogynist ...

UTTER TWADDLE - as usual




Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: lyndontom on January 27, 2018, 11:27:52 AM
Completely agree Rod, pretty similar here with UK girls, they've been brainwashed into putting careers as the be all and end all. Then there is all the metoo feminist stompede to see men as the enemy. UK girls here to are often cold, aloof and often view men in demeaning way from the outset. You see guys it's not just me that has seen this.


Trench, I do feel you sometimes get a raw deal here, but come on man, get a grip. We both live in the UK, you're not living in a world you can pretend is exactly how you portray it and expect everyone to believe you absolutely. there are great women here, just as there are anywhere. If you can't attract them, then you need to take a look at yourself or be more realistic.


I don't know what your background or history with women is, but you seem to make excuses for your failure with women and your blatant insecurity that the next one will leave you at any given minute for a 'better' man before you've even met is bordering on ridiculous.


You're going to have to change your mindset if you want to be successful with women anywhere, not just FSU. Sorry, but people here have told you time and time again and it's the truth.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Blighty on January 27, 2018, 01:39:46 PM
@Trenchcoat  I understand the reasoning behind your post, but let us all move on from the Brexit debate and look forwards to a happy future together! I live in an inward-looking area well away from affluent southern England, and so understand why people voted Brexit. I get nasty comments and disapproving looks from people when mentioning that my foreign wife needs a spouse visa. My darling wife reads the online UK newspapers, and is well aware of the Brexit debate. She worries about her English accent not being good enough for the UK. If your search for a FSU wife is genuine then this is your future! Good luck in your search, and maybe you will meet a woman from Moldova who can follow the Romania passport route!
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 27, 2018, 02:35:22 PM
I live in southern England so the affluent part which also voted for Brexit with me.

Anyway, back to Rod, Rod I think you need to think of earlier comments by LAMan I think it was and others such as myself. As in how well do you know this girl, are you actually in a relationship with her, etc since you have only been with her for a week. A lot of guys, myself included have found that on the second or third week with a girl things not go quite as well. Going out to spend time with her is a good idea - but you were insistent on finding a job first and all that is now out of the window. I'm assuming that is because it's gone flat in that front as often can happen, I know job interviews can often come to nothing as I have been there. That's find but you still need to think of your financial position when all of this has played out, however that should be. I get the impression you kind of are a hit easy come easy go in your life outlook and I think you need to think about what you really want out of a relationship long term. I just wonder if you kind of hop from relationshup to another without much permanency.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 27, 2018, 03:49:23 PM
I live in southern England so the affluent part which also voted for Brexit with me.

Funny how all the places I've ever chosen to live voted remain... they were also 'affluent' and populated with students - our future - they voted remain ..

Inward-looking is a VERY polite way of describing 'leavers' ..





Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 27, 2018, 04:47:13 PM
Many US posters here are concerned about scammers, including green card scammers, so it's not just AW asking this question.

#metoo may have gone too far now, but it is not "crap".  You've never been a woman who has been sexually harassed.
You do know that never happened, right?
You can thank UM for that.


I call it "flower and bee".  UW, on average, dress more provocatively because men there have more options so the women have to stand out.

Again, thank UM.

BWAHAHA.  All that means is that the UW you were hooking up with were leeches.  No normal UW would just brush off a man's bad behaviour with no feelings. I have witnessed first hand some of their "revenge" plots. 

Saturday mornings, I call a number of relatives in Ukraine.  So, I asked three men, one in his twenties, two in their thirties, if in their experience, your statement is true.  They nearly laughed me off the phone.  The one in his late thirties just recently married, after changing girlfriends frequently, anywhere from six to twenty four months, usually after living with them, since about age 22.  His mother was worried about this pattern, as he'd move in with them after a few weeks of dating, then eventually dump them.  His mother was usually the one answering the phone when they called looking for him.  Sometimes, even their mothers would come to her, begging her to speak to him and take their daughters back.

Again, too broad a statement.  Most Ukrainians, I agree, do know how to cook.  But not all do.  If they are normal, they are raised to want families, not to be a wife.

The visa question should never be asked by anyone on a first date, I don't care where they're from or what the hell is happening in their country. Period.

#metoo is not TOTALLY crap. You know what I mean. We need to start a #notme movement. As in, not all men suck.

The revenge thing... When I talk about this type of thing, I'm talking about odds. Percentile of female behavior having dated women from all the countries we're talking about, and a few others. US are the worst by far in all the way I described and just in any other possible way you want. FSU women are the best.

Why do you think there's overwhelmingly more sites trying to scam guys into getting one of those women? Everyone who cares to find out, knows they are better.

Being raised to want a family is even better than to be a wife. Can't have a family without being a wife first though. Unless they adopt and become single mothers, but that's outside our scope here.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 27, 2018, 04:54:28 PM
No, I disagree, they are not "better".  I am of Ukrainian descent, married to a man from Ukraine.  I have relatives from the border with Poland all the way to Siberia.  I also lived in Ukraine.  For every story you can tell me of a caring, warm, UW, I can tell you one of a woman who abandoned her children, or married for a passport, or material gain.  People are people the world over.  The reason for all these sites is because men can "trade up", look wise, and Ukraine is mired in poverty and corruption, so women are willing to marry men they barely know.  The Baltics and Russia have women of equal beauty.  The "MOB" industry dried up overnight in the Baltics, once they were admitted to the EU.  Russia's MOB industry has taken a big hit thanks to the Russian government.  Only in Ukraine is this industry entrenched.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 27, 2018, 05:45:38 PM
No, I disagree, they are not "better".  I am of Ukrainian descent, married to a man from Ukraine.  I have relatives from the border with Poland all the way to Siberia.  I also lived in Ukraine.  For every story you can tell me of a caring, warm, UW, I can tell you one of a woman who abandoned her children, or married for a passport, or material gain.  People are people the world over.  The reason for all these sites is because men can "trade up", look wise, and Ukraine is mired in poverty and corruption, so women are willing to marry men they barely know.  The Baltics and Russia have women of equal beauty.  The "MOB" industry dried up overnight in the Baltics, once they were admitted to the EU.  Russia's MOB industry has taken a big hit thanks to the Russian government.  Only in Ukraine is this industry entrenched.

 :applause:
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 27, 2018, 10:15:11 PM
:applause:
+1
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 27, 2018, 10:37:22 PM
No, I disagree, they are not "better".  I am of Ukrainian descent, married to a man from Ukraine.  I have relatives from the border with Poland all the way to Siberia.  I also lived in Ukraine.  For every story you can tell me of a caring, warm, UW, I can tell you one of a woman who abandoned her children, or married for a passport, or material gain.  People are people the world over.  The reason for all these sites is because men can "trade up", look wise, and Ukraine is mired in poverty and corruption, so women are willing to marry men they barely know.  The Baltics and Russia have women of equal beauty.  The "MOB" industry dried up overnight in the Baltics, once they were admitted to the EU.  Russia's MOB industry has taken a big hit thanks to the Russian government.  Only in Ukraine is this industry entrenched.

People are people, sure...

But for the sake of opposing any argument made about anything, it's always pretty easy to find an exception.
I have American friends who are girls, who aren't horrible.
And Brazilian friends who are girls, who are completely work and career oriented like the Americans.
It goes on and on...

But I'm talking odds. My American friends admit their women are bad, over half of them are with a girl that's not from there.
You're actually the first person from the FSU that I came in contact with, to contradict the statement that the women there are better...

It's an odds game. I'm much more likely to meet a girl I can talk to, in a musical setting, as opposed to, say, an art gallery.

FSU definitely has better odds for a man who is disappointed with the women in their home country, to go and find one, and part of the reason why this is true, is in your statement.
Brazil is also "mired in poverty and corruption", but you'd be surprised if you looked at my Tinder results when I'm in Brazil, and when I set it to Kiev. Night and day difference. Then again this last bit would be only about looks, but...

Ultimately this is my thread. MY experience has been better with Ukrainians and Russians than any other women.

This has gotten way off topic because the thread was started to find help on getting my girl here. It's ok if we stray, just not so ok if EVERY contribution from someone, is going to be to debunk what I say, unless it's for informative and helpful purposes, which is not what you are doing.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 27, 2018, 10:49:05 PM
If you are playing the odds, they are not in your favour.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 28, 2018, 01:28:38 AM
Quote from: GM_Rod link=topic=22404.msg475916#msg475916
...if EVERY contribution from someone, is going to be to debunk what I say...

Welcome to the forum Rod :D :welcome:
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 28, 2018, 01:32:59 AM
Funny how all the places I've ever chosen to live voted remain... they were also 'affluent' and populated with students - our future - they voted remain ..

Inward-looking is a VERY polite way of describing 'leavers' ..

I'll answer this on my thread so as not to derail Rod's thread here. :offtopic:
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 28, 2018, 01:37:19 AM
Rod, I am still not sure as to the whole relationship thing you have going, but I think athe this stage best thing is to go and do what you now plan. Go see the girl enjoy what you can, if it gets to it do the whole Romanian visa thing and take the relationship as far as I goes. It may work out real well for you and either way you'll no doubt learn loads so good luck :)

Oh, and keep us updated here ;)
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 28, 2018, 02:33:31 AM
Rod, I am still not sure as to the whole relationship thing you have going, but I think athe this stage best thing is to go and do what you now plan. Go see the girl enjoy what you can, if it gets to it do the whole Romanian visa thing and take the relationship as far as I goes. It may work out real well for you and either way you'll no doubt learn loads so good luck :)

Oh, and keep us updated here ;)


..and how are your 'plans'  working out, oh 'expert' ?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 28, 2018, 05:54:23 AM
If you are playing the odds, they are not in your favour.

"Never tell me the odds" Han Solo.

Depends if you are talking for long term relationship/marriage vs finding a girl to date.

Speaking from personal experience,  the women in Russian are more genuine and friendly than in North America.  Most won't give you attitute if you try to talk to them, ask them out...

I've lived in Russia, Asia, North America, England.  Russia was the easiest place for me to meet and date girls.

Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 28, 2018, 06:45:08 AM
If you are playing the odds, they are not in your favour.

Exactly!! The odds are ALWAYS against us.

This is why we need to try to manipulate as much as we can.

For example:

Country A: 8 out of 10 women are gorgeous
Country B: 3 out of 10 women are gorgeous

Now, people are people, right? So typically a man is looking for a number of things in a woman, but almost all of the time it will also include beauty.
Where does he have better odds of finding it? Country A or B?

;-)
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 28, 2018, 06:45:49 AM
"Never tell me the odds" Han Solo.

Depends if you are talking for long term relationship/marriage vs finding a girl to date.

Speaking from personal experience,  the women in Russian are more genuine and friendly than in North America.  Most won't give you attitute if you try to talk to them, ask them out...

I've lived in Russia, Asia, North America, England.  Russia was the easiest place for me to meet and date girls.

STAR WARS FAN!!

Dude you're so getting invited to my wedding.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 28, 2018, 06:47:12 AM

..and how are your 'plans'  working out, oh 'expert' ?

Actually, I can't complain!

I've been proposed to a couple times, and there were a couple other instances where I could have proposed if I wanted to and they'd have said yes.

But... I'm picky so... still looking.

Let's see what happens with this one eh? Cross your fingers :-)
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 28, 2018, 07:18:54 AM
Actually, I can't complain!

I've been proposed to a couple times, and there were a couple other instances where I could have proposed if I wanted to and they'd have said yes.

But... I'm picky so... still looking.

Let's see what happens with this one eh? Cross your fingers :-)

I appreciate this is 'your' thread...but you are not called Trenchcoat...to whom the Q was aimed! )

My fingers are always crossed for those who dare to dream ...
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2018, 07:31:07 AM
"Never tell me the odds" Han Solo.

Depends if you are talking for long term relationship/marriage vs finding a girl to date.

Speaking from personal experience,  the women in Russian are more genuine and friendly than in North America.  Most won't give you attitute if you try to talk to them, ask them out...

I've lived in Russia, Asia, North America, England.  Russia was the easiest place for me to meet and date girls.
The OP said he was playing the odds. Statistically, the odds are against him, your anecdotal experience notwithstanding. 
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2018, 07:48:42 AM
Exactly!! The odds are ALWAYS against us.

This is why we need to try to manipulate as much as we can.

For example:

Country A: 8 out of 10 women are gorgeous
Country B: 3 out of 10 women are gorgeous

Now, people are people, right? So typically a man is looking for a number of things in a woman, but almost all of the time it will also include beauty.
Where does he have better odds of finding it? Country A or B?

;-)

So admit it is the mundane-physical appearance, rather than going off into some tangent on inner superior qualities, which I know for a fact is cr@p.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 28, 2018, 07:50:05 AM
STAR WARS FAN!!

Dude you're so getting invited to my wedding.

HAHA thanks man!  The original trilogy is still the best.  the plot for the Last Jedi was so wacked out it wasn't even like a real Star Wars movie.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 28, 2018, 07:53:28 AM
The OP said he was playing the odds. Statistically, the odds are against him, your anecdotal experience notwithstanding.

Nah, Rod's gonna do just fine.  When dealing with relationships it's never about odds or stats, it's how 2 people will work or not work together.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 28, 2018, 07:58:09 AM
So admit it is the mundane-physical appearance, rather than going off into some tangent on inner superior qualities, which I know for a fact is cr@p.

he's from Brazil. i'm sure there's equally stunning looking women down there.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2018, 07:59:26 AM
I am responding to what he posted.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 28, 2018, 08:18:15 AM
He didn't say they were only better looking but that they had better attributes. at least that's my take. otherwise why waste all this time going over there.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2018, 08:26:39 AM
And I posted they don’t have better attributes. Because they don’t.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 28, 2018, 08:47:09 AM
Certainly not all but there are good and bad people everywhere.  You just gotta find the good ones.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 28, 2018, 09:11:33 AM
I see our sting is having his reading comprehensions issues - again ...
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 28, 2018, 09:17:05 AM
I appreciate this is 'your' thread...but you are not called Trenchcoat...to whom the Q was aimed! )

My fingers are always crossed for those who dare to dream ...

Lol sorry, good ol' trench is definitely our comic relief here eh?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 28, 2018, 09:18:15 AM
And I posted they don’t have better attributes. Because they don’t.

Yes, they do.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 28, 2018, 09:19:15 AM
So admit it is the mundane-physical appearance, rather than going off into some tangent on inner superior qualities, which I know for a fact is cr@p.

At first? Yes it is.

You don't walk over and talk to someone you don't find attractive.

But, if that was the ONLY criteria, I'd be married by now.
No, they must also have the "other" requirements.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2018, 10:51:42 AM
Yes, they do.

No, they don’t. Unlike you, I speak the languages fluently. I lived in Ukraine. I have seen a lot, the good and the bad. When I tell you that you don’t know what you’re talking about here, I am not mistaken.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 28, 2018, 11:04:54 AM
No, they don’t. Unlike you, I speak the languages fluently. I lived in Ukraine. I have seen a lot, the good and the bad. When I tell you that you don’t know what you’re talking about here, I am not mistaken.

Small point but I believe his current girl is from Russia not Ukraine.  I've never been to Ukraine but if they are as bad as you say why would anyone bother going there. 

There do seem to be more scammers from Ukraine than Russia on the stories I've read on this forum.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2018, 11:08:07 AM
I’m not saying they are bad. Just that as a whole, they are no better than women anywhere else on earth, in terms of attitudes and character. That goes for RW as well.

People should look for what they want in life, but do so with eyes wide open, rather than  resorting to inaccurate stereotypes or speculation.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: wallm on January 28, 2018, 11:12:01 AM
I agree with Boethius 100%. Gulp....I will go take a shower now. :ROFL:

Stop putting these FSUW women on a pedestal. They are no better than locals.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 28, 2018, 11:17:50 AM
The vindictive FSU women from what I've read here seem to have no boundaries. Luckily I've personally never met one nor experienced their behaviour.  Plenty of fish in the sea as the saying goes. 

I will say the Russian ladies I've dated have outshined the women from other countries especially from Britain!  but that's another story for another day.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2018, 11:20:37 AM
 
There do seem to be more scammers from Ukraine than Russia on the stories I've read on this forum.
.
The reason for more stories about Ukrainian scammers is because more men go to Ukraine, due to the visa free regime. Also, there is a MOB industry there that doesn’t really exist in Russia anymore.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: BillyB on January 28, 2018, 11:24:25 AM
if you looked at my Tinder results when I'm in Brazil, and when I set it to Kiev. Night and day difference. Then again this last bit would be only about looks, but...


Tinder isn't the best place to find marriage material but even on dating sites, there's a night and day difference between those in the FSU and in America. Lots of good women in America but a higher percent are married and stay married. Quality women in the FSU tend to hold out till they find what their worth allows them to find or get divorced and are more selective the second round.


Country A: 8 out of 10 women are gorgeous
Country B: 3 out of 10 women are gorgeous

Now, people are people, right? So typically a man is looking for a number of things in a woman, but almost all of the time it will also include beauty.
Where does he have better odds of finding it? Country A or B?


Beauty is one place a guy can upgrade in the FSU. Beauty can give a small indication how healthy a person is on the inside. If a person lets themselves go physically and has poor hygiene, chances are they aren't mentally healthy. Mentally unhealthy people have a tendency to let their bodies, house, and lives go.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 28, 2018, 11:28:25 AM
.
The reason for more stories about Ukrainian scammers is because more men go to Ukraine, due to the visa free regime. Also, there is a MOB industry there that doesn’t really exist in Russia anymore.

Good point. Forgot that you don't need a visa to go there.  There was a comment from an earlier thread that deals with this.

  Somehow your story keeps screaming "Ukraine!!!" at me. Surely there are women to stay away from in Russia as well but in this particular case I'd bet she is from Ukraine. With so many WM choosing Ukraine over Russia to look for a wife I think it's important to point out that this kind of "User Culture" is very prominent in Ukraine, much more so than in Russia IMO, and that men should exercise even more caution when looking for a life partner in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 28, 2018, 01:08:29 PM


I will say the Russian ladies I've dated have outshined the women from other countries especially from Britain!  but that's another story for another day.

Posters should be aware that our stinger has experience of London and Dover in the UK ;)

Once again, the guys who are successful in this venture would be successful anywhere ..   

Personally speaking, I chose to go the FSU route as I like the exotic mix of East, West, Scandinavian and other ingredients. 

Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 28, 2018, 01:11:08 PM

..and how are your 'plans'  working out, oh 'expert' ?

I'll start a thread on this so as to not ruin Rod's one :)
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 28, 2018, 01:17:44 PM
I’m not saying they are bad. Just that as a whole, they are no better than women anywhere else on earth, in terms of attitudes and character. That goes for RW as well.

People should look for what they want in life, but do so with eyes wide open, rather than  resorting to inaccurate stereotypes or speculation.

This reasoning is accurate, actually! I do agree with the last bit.
But, when you GO there and you want to date pretty much every girl you see, from the small neighborhood supermarket cashier, to the lady behind the counter at McDonald's, it's hardly an "inaccurate" stereotype anymore...
Once you go there and verify, it's also no longer speculation, either.

;-)
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 28, 2018, 01:21:53 PM
No, they don’t. Unlike you, I speak the languages fluently. I lived in Ukraine. I have seen a lot, the good and the bad. When I tell you that you don’t know what you’re talking about here, I am not mistaken.

There's two universal languages that can be used without words: The language of love and the language of music. Sting help me out here.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 28, 2018, 01:25:52 PM
Tinder isn't the best place to find marriage material but even on dating sites, there's a night and day difference between those in the FSU and in America. Lots of good women in America but a higher percent are married and stay married. Quality women in the FSU tend to hold out till they find what their worth allows them to find or get divorced and are more selective the second round.

Beauty is one place a guy can upgrade in the FSU. Beauty can give a small indication how healthy a person is on the inside. If a person lets themselves go physically and has poor hygiene, chances are they aren't mentally healthy. Mentally unhealthy people have a tendency to let their bodies, house, and lives go.

THIS GUY!!! THANK YOU.
I had accounts in every single dating website you can think of, always signing up for the most expensive deals with the "specialists" that help you with your profile, all of it.
Amazingly, Tinder works better. It's hard to believe but... it's true.
I've had more success with Tinder in a month of using it, than all the years on all those sites.

What you said there about beauty is PERFECT, that's exactly correct. Plus, our instincts are rigged so women who look prettier to us, are cognitively understood as healthy so yup!!
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 28, 2018, 01:34:24 PM
Hi Rod,

Thank God, Tinder was hardly started when I was last  looking for a partner ...  From the experiences of others I know in the FSU it seems a rotten place to search for a long-term partner .... just dates...

I'm assuming that you experience of Tinder isn't recent - given the reason you started this thread .? ( Confused,me )

 
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 28, 2018, 01:52:39 PM
There's two universal languages that can be used without words: The language of love and the language of music. Sting help me out here.

Amen brother!! If you are a musician you know how powerful it can be to connect people regardless of language.  Many a seduction has come from music.

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eryKY1fhUlo

The trumpeter is serenading a woman.  She is actually Sting's wife.  Look at her gaze and eyes.  Then Sting comes out on stage and sings to her... My nickname here is a tribute to his musicianship.

I taught music in Russia to young children who couldn't speak a lick of English.  I had them dancing and playing and engaged far more than if I were just giving them a boring academic lecture. 

And as for using music in love, well...
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 28, 2018, 01:58:53 PM
Amen brother!! If you are a musician you know how powerful it can be to connect people regardless of language.  Many a seduction has come from music.

Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eryKY1fhUlo

The trumpeter is serenading a woman.  She is actually Sting's wife.  Look at her gaze and eyes.  Then Sting comes out on stage and sings to her... My nickname here is a tribute to his musicianship.

I taught music in Russia to young children who couldn't speak a lick of English.  I had them dancing and playing and engaged far more than if I were just giving them a boring academic lecture. 

And as for using music in love, well...

What would music be without words? Sting only playing music, not singing?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 28, 2018, 02:01:49 PM
There's two universal languages that can be used without words: The language of love and the language of music. Sting help me out here.

My deaf friends would argue with you!!!
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 28, 2018, 02:03:33 PM
Hi Rod,

Thank God, Tinder was hardly started when I was last  looking for a partner ...  From the experiences of others I know in the FSU it seems a rotten place to search for a long-term partner .... just dates...

I'm assuming that you experience of Tinder isn't recent - given the reason you started this thread .? ( Confused,me )

Tinder is good for dates and hookups!!
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 28, 2018, 02:08:18 PM
LAman did you miss the trumpet solo? 
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 28, 2018, 02:22:19 PM
Oh so a couple things:

Define "recent"?

Because me and my girl got back in touch about a couple months ago. I'd say 3 months back is still "recent"...

As for words in music. Um... you do know there's a whole segment of INSTRUMENTAL music, right?
And, Sting is also a crazy ass bassist! Singing is not the ONLY thing he does well.
People who know about the hardships of music, will tell you that singing and playing the BASS (the way HE does anyway, with intricate out-of-sync bass lines), and singing at the same time, is crazy difficult...

Funny story from Boston, 2012:

I was on a speed dating event. You had 8 minutes to talk to each girl, then an alarm rang and you had to switch tables.
One of the obvious things to say in that time, is what you do, right. So "musician".
One girl decided to ask me to sing... so I did.
That was it. I had to do it again on every table, lol

Fun times.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: mhr7 on January 28, 2018, 02:30:27 PM
My deaf friends would argue with you!!!

If you're talking about sign language, it's not universal.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 28, 2018, 02:30:57 PM
I guess I should show you guys my stuff eh?
www.rodrocks.net
www.youtube.com/rodrocks1040
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2018, 04:06:00 PM
This reasoning is accurate, actually! I do agree with the last bit.
But, when you GO there and you want to date pretty much every girl you see, from the small neighborhood supermarket cashier, to the lady behind the counter at McDonald's, it's hardly an "inaccurate" stereotype anymore...
Once you go there and verify, it's also no longer speculation, either.

;-)


The stereotype is not about the physical, it is about the "superior" innate attributes.  Those stereotypes, which you presented, are not accurate.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2018, 04:06:50 PM
There's two universal languages that can be used without words: The language of love and the language of music. Sting help me out here.


LOL.  Yes, and then eventually, she learns the language, and one of you realizes who you really married.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 28, 2018, 04:20:25 PM

LOL.  Yes, and then eventually, she learns the language, and one of you realizes who you really married.

If it doesn't work, divorce. Start over.
And don't give me that crap about "If you're thinking about a divorce you shouldn't get married in the first place".

I mean there's a reason why I'm 36 and never married.
When I do it, I intend for it to be just the one time.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2018, 04:27:44 PM
So you state the reason you have never taken the risk of marriage is you only want to marry once, yet you suggest "If it doesn't work, divorce.  Start over." . Two contradictory thoughts at play. 


Divorce is not inconsequential, particularly so if children are involved.




Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 28, 2018, 04:35:09 PM
So you state the reason you have never taken the risk of marriage is you only want to marry once, yet you suggest "If it doesn't work, divorce.  Start over." . Two contradictory thoughts at play. 


Divorce is not inconsequential, particularly so if children are involved.

They don't contradict at all. Unless I was completely unreasonable at either part of it.

First, when I say I only wanna do it once, I don't mean I will stick to that no matter what, which is what a lot of people do and get stuck in an unhappy marriage just because they don't want to start over.

Second, I never said divorce was inconsequential. Nobody dreams about being divorced. Nobody has divorce as an objective.

And children... if one married someone who is not right for them, and they allowed it to go that far, then I'm sorry but they are to blame for their own misery because as far as I know, nobody forces anyone to marry.
Not to mention, what affects children more? The divorce, or staying together when the couple has absolutely nothing left but contempt for each other? I say divorce is better than THAT.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2018, 04:43:48 PM
No, there are studies that suggest divorce is not better for children.  Two things I could always tell when in my children's school:


1.  Which children had nannies; and
2.  Which children came from broken homes.


Conflict has to be very intense for divorce to be a better family option.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: ML on January 28, 2018, 05:55:43 PM
Marriages that last, from my observation, are built on shared values, not shared loins.

Spouse and I both love pork tenderloins.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 28, 2018, 06:02:17 PM
He is saying from his own personal experience that the girls in Ukraine and Russia were better than the ones he met in America and Brazil.
That's his own small sample size.  Sure there's scammers and bad people everywhere.

I had the same experience.  Russian girls are more enjoyable to date and befriend than girls from other countries that I have lived in. 
 
Of course you need a common language to communicate.  Rod didn't imply that it was unimportant.  Simply that as a musician it is a very powerful way of attraction.  Look at rock and pop stars.

If you've never performed music in front of an audience before then you don't know it's power. 
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 28, 2018, 06:07:16 PM
Case in point Bono.  This girl is literally all over him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTdjF-sjimg
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2018, 06:16:03 PM
He is saying from his own personal experience that the girls in Ukraine and Russia were better than the ones he met in America and Brazil.
That's his own small sample size.  Sure there's scammers and bad people everywhere.

I had the same experience.  Russian girls are more enjoyable to date and befriend than girls from other countries that I have lived in. 
 
Of course you need a common language to communicate.  Rod didn't imply that it was unimportant.  Simply that as a musician it is a very powerful way of attraction.  Look at rock and pop stars.

If you've never performed music in front of an audience before then you don't know it's power.

No, he didn’t post it was his experience. Plus he was pretty clear that a common language is unimportant. It’s not the music that attracts. It’s everything around it.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2018, 06:21:48 PM
Case in point Bono.  This girl is literally all over him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTdjF-sjimg

Would she be all over him were he not world famous and wealthy?

Eric Clapton once said he lost all his friends when he sobered up. The sentiment is expressed well here-

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QZzD13Fkk4o
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 28, 2018, 07:18:29 PM
Marriages that last, from my observation, are built on shared values, not shared loins.

You know Boe, as a 25 year old, at times I do wonder what happens after men & women hit their menopause. Would the fire in the loins be largely gone by then? ::)

Perhaps for the most part, after the looks and hormones have long faded away, only the glimmer behind the eye that continues to fascinate till the end of life remain.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 28, 2018, 07:52:48 PM
If you're talking about sign language, it's not universal.

You did notice I said, ‘my friends’.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 28, 2018, 07:55:24 PM
LAman did you miss the trumpet solo?

That was great, don’t get me wrong but there is a reason words are put with music, conveys a message.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 28, 2018, 08:00:45 PM

I mean there's a reason why I'm 36 and never married.
When I do it, I intend for it to be just the one time.

That’s funny Rod, I’m sure 99.999% of guys here said same before ending up divorced!!
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 28, 2018, 08:22:07 PM
That was great, don’t get me wrong but there is a reason words are put with music, conveys a message.

The average person needs words in music because they can't comprehend it without.  Bach or Beethoven certainly didn't need words with their music.

Neither did Miles Davis or Jimi Hendrix.  Singers use their voice as an instrument.  The words are just so they can say something.  Half the time you aren't even listening to the words but to the voice.

If you think about sountracks for movies they don't use words.  It's the music that evokes emotion.  Nothing wrong with words but it is secondary to the music.


Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 28, 2018, 08:46:36 PM
The average person needs words in music because they can't comprehend it without.  Bach or Beethoven certainly didn't need words with their music.

Neither did Miles Davis or Jimi Hendrix.  Singers use their voice as an instrument.  The words are just so they can say something.  Half the time you aren't even listening to the words but to the voice.

If you think about sountracks for movies they don't use words.  It's the music that evokes emotion.  Nothing wrong with words but it is secondary to the music.

But reading a book can make a grown man cry too, and in some cases commit suicide  :-\
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Jumper on January 28, 2018, 09:24:48 PM
Reading here certainly does sometimes.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Davo2 on January 28, 2018, 09:37:35 PM
That’s funny Rod, I’m sure 99.999% of guys here said same before ending up divorced!!

That's right and the unfortunate thing in this day and age is statistically the chances of having a successful marriage is no better than winning a coin toss.
I'd say we're at even more risk of failure, as there's a mindset that you have to rush to meet her as quick as you can, spend a fraction of time with her compared with dating a local woman and then pop the question. It's a little insane when you really think about it. I guess it's not a venture for someone who lacks intuition.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 28, 2018, 11:07:05 PM
You know Boe, as a 25 year old, at times I do wonder what happens after men & women hit their menopause. Would the fire in the loins be largely gone by then? ::)

Perhaps for the most part, after the looks and hormones have long faded away, only the glimmer behind the eye that continues to fascinate till the end of life remain.  :rolleyes:


The riposte I made to you above, in response to this, was a non serious post, just the type of response it really deserves.

Now I will give you a serious answer.  I would describe it thus - When two clay creatures come together, the inevitable result is dust.

You are young, and I can see at a different place than am I in life, just because I've lived longer and seen more.  I suggest if you haven't, that you read Max Stirner.   
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 28, 2018, 11:08:12 PM


Because me and my girl got back in touch about a couple months ago. I'd say 3 months back is still "recent"...



Thanks, Rod ..all clear  :thumbsup:

Edited to add:

Watched your vids and wondered, "Stoke" ? ;) 

To my ear /eye- you are talented in more than just music - given your youtube editing skills

BTW..Did you ever find Manchester ?  I recognise many of the places on your videos and the weather ..

1/"Virgin" ? Recommended cell provider ?  - It's a virtual network ... Only O2, Three EE and Vodafone are 'real' operators - best deals available in Jan - if moving providers

2/ Why do we drive on the proper side of the road?;)
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 29, 2018, 08:13:08 AM
But reading a book can make a grown man cry too, and in some cases commit suicide  :-\

hmm...commit suicide?!  must be some book!  I'm talking about connecting people.  Music is far more powerful.  Think music festivals.  I don't see any reading festivals around.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 29, 2018, 08:20:34 AM
The average person needs words in music because they can't comprehend it without.  Bach or Beethoven certainly didn't need words with their music.
For most of his life Bach was a "Kapellmeister" whose organ music accompanied church services, but he also wrote 4 long Passions (Oratorios) for Good Friday with important vocal parts. Beethoven is best known for his symphonies (the 9th with a long last vocal movement ;)) but also made money by composing many pieces for voice with instrumental accompaniment. Of Schubert's 1,500+ works, some 600+ are Lieders for piano and solo voice. I could go on with endless other examples.

Western music started in the 4th century with St. Ambrose's chant, then St. Gregory's chant in the 9th century, both performed by monks, originally without any musical accompaniment.

Not to mention 4 centuries of operatic productions ::).

Quote
Neither did Miles Davis or Jimi Hendrix. Singers use their voice as an instrument.  The words are just so they can say something. Half the time you aren't even listening to the words but to the voice.
However, lyrics can be more important than their musical accompaniment, witness George Brassens's and Jaques Brel's songs.
Quote
If you think about sountracks for movies they don't use words.  It's the music that evokes emotion.  Nothing wrong with words but it is secondary to the music.
Probably because words there would distract from the screen action.

However, how about musicals ;D?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 29, 2018, 08:34:05 AM
Most of you guys aren't musicians and have never performed for an audience.  Words and lyrics are a big part of music no doubt but not the essense.

think about it, you remember the melody of a song far more easily than the words.


Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 29, 2018, 09:27:39 AM
No, there are studies that suggest divorce is not better for children.  Two things I could always tell when in my children's school:


1.  Which children had nannies; and
2.  Which children came from broken homes.


Conflict has to be very intense for divorce to be a better family option.

There's also studies that suggest vaccine is poison, or that gluten will kill you even if you're not allergic. There's a whole bunch of people who swear the Earth is FLAT for chrissakes.
Intense conflict is exactly what I said. 8 out of 10 of my friends' and ex-girlfriends'parents were divorced.
And some that were still together... I can assure you, they should've split up. It would have been better.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 29, 2018, 09:34:39 AM
Thanks, Rod ..all clear  :thumbsup:

Edited to add:

Watched your vids and wondered, "Stoke" ? ;) 

To my ear /eye- you are talented in more than just music - given your youtube editing skills

BTW..Did you ever find Manchester ?  I recognise many of the places on your videos and the weather ..

1/"Virgin" ? Recommended cell provider ?  - It's a virtual network ... Only O2, Three EE and Vodafone are 'real' operators - best deals available in Jan - if moving providers

2/ Why do we drive on the proper side of the road?;)

Thanks for the nice compliments!! I try to do my best at whatever I do.

Yeah I realized pretty quick Virgin sucked. I'm with EE now.

I was in Stoke at first because I applied to a college there, so it made sense. But, since coming here wasn't in the plans initially, I missed the deadline, so I re-applied for this year and I'm as of now waiting to see if I get accepted. If I do, it only starts in September so I have some time.
I'm in Manchester now, yes. Just moved to another apartment, actually. I was in Stockport, which was too far from everything, I'm now in Salford. Much better.

The side of the road story:
In olden times, people used to ride horses on highways. The overwhelming majority of people are right handed. This means you'd carry your sword on your LEFT side, hanging from your waist, or even on your back, but still in a way that you'd reach and pull it out with your right hand.
A common danger on roads, was bandits jumping you from the trees on the sidelines of the roads.
If you're riding on the left, that's where they have to jump you from, which makes it MUCH easier for you to defend yourself against them, since it's always easier to perform a sword blow with your right hand, while on a horse, if the attacker is on the opposite side.
Eventually when it evolved into cars, they just kept everything on the same side.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 29, 2018, 09:36:37 AM
Would she be all over him were he not world famous and wealthy?

Eric Clapton once said he lost all his friends when he sobered up. The sentiment is expressed well here-


Yes, she would. I'm not famous and not wealthy and I've had my share of girls in concerts. And I'm the drummer sitting in the back. I do happen to also sing but... still the guy sitting behind drums and the hardest to see on stage.

Eric Clapton's statement just sounds to me like he chose his friends poorly. I still talk to everyone who ever played with me. Actually, more often than the people who went to school with me or something like that.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 29, 2018, 09:38:58 AM
There is no bitterness in my tone. You read into it what you wish.

Rod is the one who brought up the superior innate characteristics of FSUW. I merely pointed out he was looking through rose coloured glasses.

I didn’t suggest speaking a common language was unimportant. Rod did. That’s silly, for the most part. Marriages that last, from my observation, are built on shared values, not shared loins.

Yes there is. All you do on here is antagonize. There's no better word for that, than bitterness.
Speaking common language is EVERYTHING. Shared values, also, of course. But I can say with full confidence that 99% of every problem in any relationship, be it romantic, professional or with one's family, happens because of either lack of communication, or being bad at communicating.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Jumper on January 29, 2018, 10:26:45 AM
Yes, she would. I'm not famous and not wealthy and I've had my share of girls in concerts. And I'm the drummer sitting in the back. I do happen to also sing but... still the guy sitting behind drums and the hardest to see on stage.


Women, especially young impressionable ones, seem.often easily influenced by the perception of what others in their peer group want.
  I played lead guitar in a local chicago  band for about a decade, just as a hobby ,for fun.we were not successful or trying to be really. We had all been in other bands  and just hit it off, so went out to have pure fun,to truly have a blast with the audience, get them really involved on stage etc. Still we played all the major clubs and venues, in the region, opened for several big acts, and were the club band for the local rock station at that time.
 So yeah i agree .
To me it was just that young girls are often not really thinking and chase an appearance of not even slight  fame, have no clue if you are even a nice guy while trying to tear your shirt off as you walk thru the crowd for a solo  etc. I think it's an extension of attention syndrome, attention by association.
It was fun times, but frankly i was bored with the shallowness of that aspect of it in short time.
I never really dated groupies,  and found it insane that we even had them at such a minor level.just bizarre.
Really it (and women attracted to my actual job at the time) just showed how whacky social pressures and society are in regards to perceptions, status,etc. It actually was a huge turn off to me at some point.Probably no different than a buxem blonde getting tired of attention based over her chest.
Lol

Anyway, yes immature women seem easily swayed by  things that likely make zero difference in whether a man is a good match for her in a relationship.

Not that men dont have the exact same issue in regards to what they often heavily weigh for attrubutes in  a partner.


And just to play devil's advocate and for discussion:
A huge part of communication is body language, thousands of studies on it.
Most agree it's as important,or more so than the stated words.
scary really.

(But yes I think a common language and decent communication skills are a huge thing)


 

 
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 29, 2018, 10:37:16 AM
There's also studies that suggest vaccine is poison, or that gluten will kill you even if you're not allergic. There's a whole bunch of people who swear the Earth is FLAT for chrissakes.


There are no reputable studies, blind tested, by reputable scholars, suggesting vaccines are poison or that gluten will kill you.   


People who think the earth is flat also tend to believe divorce has no harmful effect on children.
Quote
Intense conflict is exactly what I said. 8 out of 10 of my friends' and ex-girlfriends'parents were divorced.
And some that were still together... I can assure you, they should've split up. It would have been better.


If 8 out of 10 of your friends had such intense conflict they had to break up, you have chosen your friends poorly.


Not one of my friends is divorced.  All of them have been married for over 20 years now. Neighbours, yes.  Parents of my children's playmates, yes. 


When people argue a great deal, it is because neither can see the other's point of view.  It is mostly ego.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 29, 2018, 10:40:54 AM
Yes there is. All you do on here is antagonize. There's no better word for that, than bitterness.
Speaking common language is EVERYTHING. Shared values, also, of course. But I can say with full confidence that 99% of every problem in any relationship, be it romantic, professional or with one's family, happens because of either lack of communication, or being bad at communicating.

Right.  I am "bitter" because I have an opposing view.

I am pointing out non sugar coated reality to you, but more so, to lurkers.

Why would I be bitter about what strangers on the internet state?  I am just suggesting that your rose coloured view of FSUW is just that.  It definitely is not based in reality.  You will note, I am referring your posted views in general, not the particular lady you have chosen.  She could be Mother Teresa, for all I know.

Do views that do not align with your own make me "bitter"?  LOL.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 29, 2018, 11:02:51 AM
Most of you guys aren't musicians and have never performed for an audience.
I have for 13 years, as member of an "A cappella" choir, i.e. a choir that sings without musical accompaniment - see attached photo.
Quote
Words and lyrics are a big part of music no doubt but not the essenCe.
The French chansonniers would dispute that ;).
Quote
think about it, you remember the melody of a song far more easily than the words.
It depends on the song, in some the lyrics are more memorable, being tied to widely shared sentiments.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 29, 2018, 11:09:25 AM
I have for 13 years, as member of an "A cappella" choir, i.e. a choir that sings without musical accompaniment - see attached photo.

cool Sandro...I know what "A cappella" is.   :) 
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 29, 2018, 11:26:55 AM
Women, especially young impressionable ones, seem.often easily influenced by the perception of what others in their peer group want.
  I played lead guitar in a local chicago  band for about a decade, just as a hobby ,for fun.we were not successful or trying to be really. We had
I never really dated groupies,


Jumper you played in a blues band? Ah the groupie thing...half the reason why guys become "musicians"..haha. It's real though.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 29, 2018, 12:03:44 PM
I was saying this earlier today: If any guy tells me they didn't learn music at least PARTIALLY because of girls, he's lying.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 29, 2018, 12:08:49 PM
So, update.

I'm booked for Russia!

I'll be there from Feb 8th to 15th.

AirBNB + plane tickets, the whole thing cost me under £500. Not too bad.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 29, 2018, 12:42:39 PM
So, update.

I'm booked for Russia!

I'll be there from Feb 8th to 15th.

AirBNB + plane tickets, the whole thing cost me under £500. Not too bad.

Hahaha Rod. Can't believe it took us nearly 15 pages of writing to convince you to finally take the plunge and fly to Russia. Unbelievable. :popcorn:

All the best Rod, let us know how this adventure goes!

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 29, 2018, 12:52:07 PM
I needed a reason!

Upon further reading, I found something about how Romania is granting citizenship to Moldovans. This means we won't even have to find her grandma's Romanian birth certificate, if it's true.

And, the Moldovan passport apparently gets done really fast too. Will update.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: ML on January 29, 2018, 12:52:45 PM
Hahaha Rod. Can't believe it took us nearly 15 pages of writing to convince you to finally take the plunge and fly to Russia. Unbelievable.

The unbelievable part is that someone from west would want to get involved with a Russian woman at this point in time.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 29, 2018, 12:54:23 PM

The riposte I made to you above, in response to this, was a non serious post, just the type of response it really deserves.

Now I will give you a serious answer.  I would describe it thus - When two clay creatures come together, the inevitable result is dust.

You are young, and I can see at a different place than am I in life, just because I've lived longer and seen more.  I suggest if you haven't, that you read Max Stirner.

Not quite sure if I grasped the idea correctly.  :-\ Seem quite beyond my level of comprehension for philosophy.

I guess you are saying regardless of what happens, the end result is the same for all of us, that we all turn back into dust?

Haha, Max Stirner like Nietzche seems depressing enough. The idealist in me would object to their views on altruism and sacrifice for the greater good, as do most societies in general with their cultures, religious beliefs, and "golden rules" in society passed down from generation to generation.

Hmm, I am starting to think it may have some connection to the quote on your posts.  :D

"Without religion there is no morality, and without morality there is no law." - Lord Denning
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 29, 2018, 12:59:43 PM
Quote
I guess you are saying regardless of what happens, the end result is the same for all of us, that we all turn back into dust?

No, I am saying that while physical attractiveness is a factor in all relationships, real relationships are built on something more.  A relationship built purely on the physical is one that will end in dust.

I suggest Max Stirner because he wrote a lot at around your age, so he will be accessible to you.  You understand things differently at different stages in your life.  Robertson Davies used to say you must reread the classics of literature at different periods of your life.  You will understand Dostoevsky differently at 20 than you do at 40 or 60.

My quote has nothing to do with what I posted.  I change it at times, and it is usually in response to something posted.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 29, 2018, 02:03:01 PM
The unbelievable part is that someone from west would want to get involved with a Russian woman at this point in time.

Um... what?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Jumper on January 29, 2018, 02:09:25 PM
Jumper you played in a blues band? Ah the groupie thing...half the reason why guys become "musicians"..haha. It's real though.

Not blues ,   it was late 80s thru some 90s. Rock, heavy metal., a  really silly time in music, but fun.
but obviously all of that is heavily influenced by the blues  ,and blues pentatonic.
 Rock/metal was the band's forte as thats what was popular at the time in clubs and other venues here.
Personally I had a wide range of music I liked and enjoyed playing personally  including instrumental stuff, but still even then tended towards the rock side with artists like satriani being a favorite.
 My father was a great musician and influenced me to pick up stringed instruments when I was very young, it just carried on from there.
To be fair the band thing was truly a side gig for me, I had taught lessons at a local guitar shop for fun and to expand my own abilities and tastes. I had another demanding career, so guitar was just  a hobby. A popular local band lost their lead guitarist and hired me to fill in, it went from there. And at that age,and single, sure a lot of the fun involved, was the girls.
As mentioned I got bored regarding that aspect very very fast, but overall I had a great time,and had the unique experience of playing for fairly large audiences .

As an old guy now, i'll say that kind of attraction is mostly in youth,often peer pressure related,   and based on things that arent lasting.

As far as FSUw,  I'm a fan obviuosly lol
My wife is truly an amazing person.


That said, I've never held a woman's nationality against her.
Have met nice woman in any country I spent any time in, and who were foolish enough to give me their time. ;)

I don't buy into the stereotypes of American women, English women,Brazilian women, (I lived there briefly)  or FSU women , although I do feel there are certainly cultural differences and generalities that exist.

In the end you'll be involved with an individual, not a nationality ,culture,  stereotype ,or a generality. Those may have played a role in who that person became,  but still a guy will be involved with an individual.
Those differences vary far more ,and are far more important in a relationship ,than the bantered stereotypes ever are.

But that's just one knuckleheads opinion .








Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Jumper on January 29, 2018, 02:15:23 PM
Um... what?

Basically , ML seems  convinced that if a given RW,  isn't actively protesting at Putin's office door over the invasion of Ukraine, that they are guilty of all offenses of their nation to another nation. Im.not sure what other offenses they'd need to be equally guilty of, as im sure this isnt the only one, or the only country guilty.

Politics do play a role, but not as directly to some people,  as others.


Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 29, 2018, 02:18:15 PM
Jumper I mentioned blues because Chicago is a well known blues hotspot for guitar next to Austin of course.

Joe Satriani and Eric Johnson are 2 of my favs.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Jumper on January 29, 2018, 02:55:45 PM
Jumper I mentioned blues because Chicago is a well known blues hotspot for guitar next to Austin of course.

Joe Satriani and Eric Johnson are 2 of my favs.

I know, i figured you knew chicago background. Lol just wanted to be clear we played far more comical head banging stuff lol.
 I do like the blues and obviously some great clubs for it here that the legends still frequent.

Johnsons cliffs of dover was inspiring when it  came out for sure.
I've seen those guys (with others like vai,  live here several times (G3 ,etc etc)
Normally satch is the most impressive to me technically, emotionally, and as just pure entertainer.Thats pretty subjective though.


Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 29, 2018, 03:41:41 PM
The unbelievable part is that someone from west would want to get involved with a Russian woman at this point in time.

Well you can't blame the Russian women. Putin's just too strong for them now. :P

And...he's running for president again whilst jailing his opponents. Thug life. :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: ML on January 29, 2018, 04:19:08 PM
Basically , ML seems  convinced that if a given RW,  isn't actively protesting at Putin's office door over the invasion of Ukraine, that they are guilty of all offenses of their nation to another nation.

Well you are not correct in describing me.

No, it's not that they don't oppose or protest against him.
They actively support him and the Russian terrorist invaders in Ukraine.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 29, 2018, 05:58:35 PM
I was saying this earlier today: If any guy tells me they didn't learn music at least PARTIALLY because of girls, he's lying.
I'll tell you, and I'm no liar ;D. At least, I tried to at 11, not very successfully at the start :(, a little better later on (http://www.floriani.it/music-eng.htm).

When I was 12 my first girl played the piano, and I made a fool of myself trying to turn the pages of her score at the wrong time :D. Then I could not understand why they did not write explicit time durations rather than those to me incomprehensible fractions ::). Relativity was still an unknown concept to me.

Later, I did notice when playing my guitar at parties that girls would flock around me asking for favourite tunes, though.
:devilish:

Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 29, 2018, 05:59:49 PM
I know, i figured you knew chicago background. Lol just wanted to be clear we played far more comical head banging stuff lol.
 I do like the blues and obviously some great clubs for it here that the legends still frequent.

Johnsons cliffs of dover was inspiring when it  came out for sure.
I've seen those guys (with others like vai,  live here several times (G3 ,etc etc)
Normally satch is the most impressive to me technically, emotionally, and as just pure entertainer.Thats pretty subjective though.

head banging metal...never caught onto it...yeah G3 was great. I never saw them live up in Canada though. but I did see EJ a few times..a few years back he did a duo with Mike Stern, another great player.

I got it the other way around lol,  EJ beats Joe on those musical elements for me, but yeah it's all personal taste.

Sadly in Russia they don't really have a thriving live music scene.  most of the street buskers I saw were no better than your average high school band player... once I saw a decent cello duo at Gorky Park. that was surprising.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Jumper on January 29, 2018, 06:56:06 PM
Well you are not correct in describing me.

No, it's not that they don't oppose or protest against him.
They actively support him and the Russian terrorist invaders in Ukraine.

Let's  agree to disagree.

My wifes in Ukraine now, it's a sensitive subject for all of us with family or friends there.

My definition of actively support is likely not the same as yours.
Plus I view polls showing overwhelming support of Putin,  to be rather a convenient way to retain support or bolster it thru normal propaganda.  I believe a controlled media is just that , and don't buy much of anything produced by it.
Our views just differ. I respect your opinion in it and understand why you hold it.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Jumper on January 29, 2018, 07:03:04 PM
head banging metal...never caught onto it...yeah G3 was great. I never saw them live up in Canada though. but I did see EJ a few times..a few years back he did a duo with Mike Stern, another great player.

I got it the other way around lol,  EJ beats Joe on those musical elements for me, but yeah it's all personal taste.

Sadly in Russia they don't really have a thriving live music scene.  most of the street buskers I saw were no better than your average high school band player... once I saw a decent cello duo at Gorky Park. that was surprising.

Yeah I was refering to live aspects of those acts, and any act can have good and bad night's.
 Havnt been in a long time other than to see my old band here in chi town.They are still together and still play gigs somewhat regularly.
Kind of funny since we are all late 40s early 50s now lol.   :wallbash:

Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 29, 2018, 09:30:54 PM
YO.

What the EFF did this thread turn into?

There will be no politics, religion or sports talk in this joint.

Take that crap elsewhere.

Music, women, sure.

Also I could use some tips on where to take this girl and what to do in Moscow, because the last time around, I already did the touristy things.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 30, 2018, 12:37:23 AM
I was saying this earlier today: If any guy tells me they didn't learn music at least PARTIALLY because of girls, he's lying.

Then I'm a liar ..I did singing lessons because I loved singing...I MUCH later learnt that my voice - not THAT good - had a bonus factor with the opposite sex..

Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 30, 2018, 12:43:33 AM
The unbelievable part is that someone from west would want to get involved with a Russian woman at this point in time.

The unbelievable part is someone  - who should know better - not having been to Russia since 2014 - preaching such twaddle...

When  you can get around dealing with my analogy re the Irish and British  - the Kopek will drop

I'm called a 'russophobe' in another place for disliking the path Putin has taken Russia and I'd say the same to a sycophantic supporter of Kremlin anyway games... 




Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 30, 2018, 01:14:39 AM


Also I could use some tips on where to take this girl and what to do in Moscow, because the last time around, I already did the touristy things.

Not much to do outside when you are going. Indoor stuff all you can do. The parks are really nice. I like Tsaritsino, nice for a picnic. Moreon is cool, a spa type place with pools and various saunas. But I am sure you are on a budget.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Davo2 on January 30, 2018, 02:09:11 AM
I was saying this earlier today: If any guy tells me they didn't learn music at least PARTIALLY because of girls, he's lying.

I played the trombone in my high school band and despite being able to motorboat like there's no tomorrow, I get the feeling it was a real turn off for the girls ;)
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 30, 2018, 02:59:34 AM
I played the trombone in my high school band and despite being able to motorboat like there's no tomorrow, I get the feeling it was a real turn off for the girls ;)

I'm no music guy but even I know it's the saxe or nothing ;D Having watched the American Pie films it's evident that all other instruments and indeed being in the High School band will get you labelled a band geek! An instant street cred killer with the girls and to be avoided at all costs :D
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 30, 2018, 08:37:11 AM
Good to get a gauge on the musical abilities of all members here LOL. 
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 30, 2018, 12:11:29 PM
But I am sure you are on a budget.

Was that necessary ?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on January 30, 2018, 01:39:05 PM
Was that necessary ?

Well, OP has not had job in at least six months, still unemployed, supposed to be hearing for an interview ‘very soon’, been using up his savings, moved to a less expensive area? Should I stop?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 30, 2018, 01:46:44 PM
Well, OP has not had job in at least six months, still unemployed, supposed to be hearing for an interview ‘very soon’, been using up his savings, moved to a less expensive area? Should I stop?

YES ... ?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on January 30, 2018, 01:55:38 PM
Hmm funny I got msmob on ignore but I can see his post if someone quotes him.  He's still provoking people I see...

Strange that he was so adamant Rod go to Russia first and now that he's going he's turned coattail.

Moscow has many things you can do for free or on the cheap.  Just depends on what you wanna do.  With this weather it's much more preferable to be inside.  I was usually in the Red Square area doing the "tourist" things.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 30, 2018, 03:30:54 PM
I’m ok for money, thank you very much. Not that it’s any of your business.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 30, 2018, 03:52:56 PM
Hmm funny I got msmob on ignore but I can see his post if someone quotes him.  He's still provoking people I see...

Strange that he was so adamant Rod go to Russia first and now that he's going he's turned coattail.

Never the most observant, our Sting ...    You say 'provocation' - I say offering my not inconsiderable - recent - experience ? ...

I 'missed' when I did a volte face...  As you need spoon-feeding... I baulked at LaMan's suggestion of cheapness... Do keep up...





Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2018, 03:54:39 PM
Never the most observant, our Sting ...    You say 'provocation' - I say offering my not inconsiderable - recent - experience ? ...

I 'missed' when I did a volte face...  As you need spoon-feeding... I baulked at LaMan's suggestion of cheapness... Do keep up...


I think this is a cultural divide.  The better half would have found LA Man's statement to be the epitome of rudeness.  I just think it was an offhand statement, based on the OP's posts, nothing to get tied up in knots over.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 30, 2018, 04:15:16 PM

I think this is a cultural divide.  The better half would have found LA Man's statement to be the epitome of rudeness.  I just think it was an offhand statement, based on the OP's posts, nothing to get tied up in knots over.

I'm with your hubby, still ...  'off-hand' - but thoughtless, nevertheless

Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: JayH on January 30, 2018, 04:19:45 PM
Well, OP has not had job in at least six months, still unemployed, supposed to be hearing for an interview ‘very soon’, been using up his savings, moved to a less expensive area? Should I stop?

The OP likes to play music? Correct?
What does he do for a proper job? ;D :tmi: :devil:
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Boethius on January 30, 2018, 04:27:25 PM
These are things I would do, which I don't consider "touristy":


1.  Visit the Tretyakov Gallery.
2.  Go to the ballet.
3.  Go to the opera.
4.  Look for live performances when there.


If the girl purchases tickets, they will cost less, as these events are all subsidized for Russians.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on January 30, 2018, 04:44:11 PM
The OP likes to play music? Correct?
What does he do for a proper job? ;D :tmi: :devil:

Jealous? I’m sorry man, show up at a concert! I can tell girls you’re my friend and maybe you can get laid too.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Anotherkiwi on January 31, 2018, 02:48:11 AM
Jealous? I’m sorry man, show up at a concert! I can tell girls you’re my friend and maybe you can get laid too.

You may speak and write English extremely well, Rod, but you're not a native speaker, so I'll excuse you not "getting" Jay's humour!  That's a pretty standard riposte to ANYONE who has a job that you don't consider a job because they love it so much (most professional sportspeople are also in that category).

As for the "getting laid" bit - I think his girlfriend would have more than a bit to say about that!  :cluebat:
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: kynrazor on January 31, 2018, 05:14:35 AM
Hmm funny I got msmob on ignore but I can see his post if someone quotes him.  He's still provoking people I see...

Strange that he was so adamant Rod go to Russia first and now that he's going he's turned coattail.

Moscow has many things you can do for free or on the cheap.  Just depends on what you wanna do.  With this weather it's much more preferable to be inside.  I was usually in the Red Square area doing the "tourist" things.

Erm, with all due respect, I think you got the story off mark. Don't think he turned coattail at all.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on January 31, 2018, 06:30:33 AM
Erm, with all due respect, I think you got the story off mark. Don't think he turned coattail at all.

Thanks, Kyn ...   

I've ALWAYS told Rod he needed to prove a relationship and meet her

..and by the way .. ( not aimed at Kyn or Sting - Rod's not just a talented musician
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: ML on January 31, 2018, 10:27:06 AM
If the girl purchases tickets, they will cost less, as these events are all subsidized for Russians.

Yes, but purchasing is only one step in  the process.

I had several experiences in Russia where a Russian purchased the tickets . . . but I was turned away when presenting the ticket at the entrance and told (via my Russian friends) to go back and buy 'foreigner' ticket.

This happened even when I was with two or more Russians who tried their best to 'camouflage' me.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on February 02, 2018, 02:43:49 PM
You may speak and write English extremely well, Rod, but you're not a native speaker, so I'll excuse you not "getting" Jay's humour!  That's a pretty standard riposte to ANYONE who has a job that you don't consider a job because they love it so much (most professional sportspeople are also in that category).

As for the "getting laid" bit - I think his girlfriend would have more than a bit to say about that!  :cluebat:

That had nothing to do with being a native speaker or not.
You don't think that same lame-ass joke exists everywhere, no matter what language you speak? Please.
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: Sting23 on February 02, 2018, 07:07:04 PM
That had nothing to do with being a native speaker or not.
You don't think that same lame-ass joke exists everywhere, no matter what language you speak? Please.

yeah I'm a native speaker and a musician...seemed to be a dig at us musicians to get a real job!  Could just be an Aussie thing too. I met "heaps" of dem traveling and tons come to Canada to work abroad. They are laid back cool peoples but can be a bit rowdy haha
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on February 05, 2018, 06:23:20 AM
3 days to go!
Any tips on what to do in Moscow?
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: LAman on February 05, 2018, 09:46:23 AM
3 days to go!
Any tips on what to do in Moscow?

Try to stay warm...snow flurries on Thursday and Saturday. Be thankful to land safely!!
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: GM_Rod on February 05, 2018, 11:12:29 AM
She did mention it's crazy cold and snowy there now. -12 and around. Jeez
Title: Re: Hello guys!
Post by: msmob on February 05, 2018, 02:53:14 PM
Hi Rod

You will be arriving just after Moscow had it's biggest snowfall since records began - .5 metres

I have a friend from Cyprus there and he has never seen snow so deep .... he is having trouble getting a flight back

The roads weren't good - but the metro is running smoothly ..

Good luck



Title: Re: Hello guys! - update ?
Post by: msmob on March 22, 2018, 06:42:08 AM
Well, for a thread that certainly generated some interest - it has gone very cold

Rod, what happened ?