What is an MOB'er?

[Misha]

At the end of the day, it is a question of expanding the dating pool. Some people are more willing to venture farther afield than others and this applies to women as well as men. Some women will never date any man outside their neighbourhood let alone the country or continent. The same is true for some men. Are they more or less losers than others? Some people marry someone they met in school, people they knew since childhood. Are they less losers than those who met people while going to university or later in life?

[Boethius]

My, my, my,

We've been percolating along, haven't we? 

Me or GQ?  For me, uh, no.  You evidently are unfamiliar with my posts.  Please also note my tagline.

  But the next time you consider one of these romances, consider that it is gauche if you are an enlightened individual to disdain an interracial marriage.  Yet the same statistics seem to hold true for interracial marriages as hold true for age gap marriages.  And the enlightened among us seem to frown upon them.  Just a thought.

Again, read what I actually posted.

History is replete with younger women marrying older men.  Many FSU women that I know will not consider marrying someone their own age.  They feel that the risk of marriage failure is much greater marrying someone their own age.  While I am a statistical sample of one, I have heard this from many women, for many years, even while I was still one of those under 25 year olds mentioned above.

I posted in the past about this.  Tolstoy mocked such unions, and there is a painting in the Tretyakov Gallery which I also posted, entitled The Unequal Yoking/An Unequal Match (depending on your translation).


If the assertion of FSUW were accurate, then statistically, the age difference in first marriages between a bride and groom would not be a mere four years.

[LiveFromUkraine]

If the assertion of FSUW were accurate, then statistically, the age difference in first marriages between a bride and groom would not be a mere four years.

Bo, do you have any data on foreign relationships.  I was reading an article stating the divorce rate on foreign relationships were actually better. A lot better, in fact.


I will try to dig up the article but wondered if you had any stats that dictated foreign relationships ended 4 years or prior to fourteen or whatever your measuring stick for a successful marriage.

[Boethius]

I meant there is a four year age difference between an FSU bride and an FSU groom.  Or, it was four years in Ukraine, and about the same in Russia, last time I looked.  It may be as little as two years.


Dan commissioned a study, which is somewhere on the forum.  Dave or Sandro could probably link it.  At that time, there were almost no marriages at 14 years.  I think there are a couple at that point now.


And, FTR, my personal measuring stick for a successful marriage is one that lasts to death. 

[LiveFromUkraine]

I meant there is a four year age difference between an FSU bride and an FSU groom.  Or, it was four years in Ukraine, and about the same in Russia, last time I looked.  It may be as little as two years.


Dan commissioned a study, which is somewhere on the forum.  Dave or Sandro could probably link it.  At that time, there were almost no marriages at 14 years.  I think there are a couple at that point now.

Thanks, will try and find it. 

And, FTR, my personal measuring stick for a successful marriage is one that lasts to death.

Ah, so there is a little romance left in you.  You better run away before that gets sucked out!   

[Daveman]

...
Dan commissioned a study, which is somewhere on the forum.  Dave or Sandro could probably link it.  At that time, there were almost no marriages at 14 years.  I think there are a couple at that point now.

http://www.goodwife.com/survey/xcultural_p01.html




the link is located (well above, but also) in the bottom menu, second column from the left, third option down.. just for future reference...

[Daveman]

I used to be.  But reading a lot of the vomit inducing drivel on this forum knocked it out of me.

 

I am, though, married to the last romantic in the world.

There is a time for cynicism, a time for logic, a time for debate, a time for jokes and a time for keeping it real... and a time for romantic dreams...


and as a Pisces, I'm the most intense romantic dreamer of all.. I just have to check it at the door when entering the forum.. that way it remains pristine for home use!

[Gator]

Then maybe do a bit of soul searching...how many times did you state how you should've married someone else and how the cost of your divorce rivaled that of your attorney's fees?

What does the fact that I had a quick, minimal cost, and somewhat amicable divorce have to do with starting over?   I started over for a 100 reasons, and money was none of them.  You are making no sense here and several other places.   I will attempt brevity, and then you can have the last word.

Must I remind what you previously advocated in doing Gator?

How did you wife feel inside when you changed the subject to tell her that you wanted to meet other women?   Did you disclose everything, such as your need to belittle others.


 

*Sacrifice* is the exact word used by typical MOBers. Your attempt to re-define exactly what they said is pretty weak.

 
 
Actually, I  defined it well.  Why am I not surprised that a pampered college kid would feel no sacrifice but a sense of adventure.

My definition of a desperate woman are those who latches on men who spoke a
language they do not understand yet married him anyway. For what? Passport? $$$?
Do you know anyone like that?

No, especially if they decline a marriage offer because they do not want to leave Mother Russia.  You are reaching now, so your bag of insults must be nearing empty.

I'm sure sex is something that hasn't happened in a while. 

Based on your mood it is obvious that I am enjoying more real sex than you.
 
 

I submit a man doing one of the things I stated upthread classifies him a typical MOBer. 'sway it is...

One and out.  Maybe I should review your list with more care.  Nope. 
 

Anyone can take stock of the couples in one of these AM/FSUW couple gatherings everyone will soon attend or have attended. The majority of the men involved in this pursuit epitomize the typical MOBer...social rejects and old geezers.

Why don't you go through the list of the most recent 30-40 RWD posters and identify who is a social reject, an old geezer, or in the minority.  You don't have the balls, do you.

While in the company of some fine wine and exquisite dining, Gator? LOL.

 
 
In provincial cites?     No, it usually happened over sushi, or stopping to smell the roses, or.....

Ahhhh...How so cowardly of you Gator.  Interesting. Since when did
Irina came to the discussion here? Is that your submission because you're
running out of anything else to say? Pretty darn weak. tsk, tsk, tsk...

Again, this makes no sense.  I offer facts.  You respond with insults.  You are dodging the fact that you inasmuch admitted to being a jerk to someone who tried to help you. 

You've gone senile old man. I offered and you refused. I knew then that would
come back to haunt me one way or another. Would you like your dollar now? LOL.

I may forget some things, but not rudeness. 
 

You are just as silly and insecure as Misha..Both of you obviously suffer from an inferiority complex.

Pot....kettle...black.   Misha is a well adjusted man who adds a level of intellectual precision to RWD.  And you have the gall to insult him repeatedly about his weight.  That was low GQ, low, but not unexpected from a cockalorum. 

[BillyB]

History is replete with younger women marrying older men.  Many FSU women that I know will not consider marrying someone their own age.  They feel that the risk of marriage failure is much greater marrying someone their own age. 

I posted in the past about this.  Tolstoy mocked such unions, and there is a painting in the Tretyakov Gallery which I also posted, entitled The Unequal Yoking/An Unequal Match (depending on your translation).

Tolstoy married a woman 16 years younger than himself. His marriage began to deteriorate with his increasingly radical beliefs. If he did mock marriages with large age gaps, he's a hypocrite but then again, he's extremely radical and it's best to assume his opinions are just that radical, not necessarily wise.

One can think this all strange and unethical but it's a fact in the FSU women, on average, will consider a larger age gap compared to their Western sister. Unwise? It's probably wise in the minds of those women to accept this as they deal with less financial troubles, immaturity, and drama than they would with a younger husband. Living in a place where BS is abundant, the last thing they need is additional BS from a husband and there's less risk, less BS, and more stability, including financially, with an older husband than a younger.

[AnonMod]

 Why don't you go through the list of the most recent 30-40 RWD posters and identify who is a social reject, an old geezer, or in the minority.  You don't have the balls, do you.

That type of post would violate the TOS.  It should not have even been suggested and if the challenge is taken the post will be deleted and this thread will be locked.

[GQBlues]

...What does the fact that I had a quick, minimal cost, and somewhat amicable divorce have to do with starting over?   I started over for a 100 reasons, and money was none of them.  You are making no sense here and several other places.   I will attempt brevity, and then you can have the last word....

Man, you are self-absorbed. The ink wasn't yet dry on that silly divorce and already you had nothing delicious to say about a woman you praised, courted for 6 years, then married, brings her here and her 2 child...for what? She did something you didn't like? Maybe cheated on you Gator? Got to her senses one day and wondered what's gotten into her for being married to a man 40 years her senior?

Gator! Wake the heck up!!! Regardless of the reason - can you honestly say you can blame her?

The divorce to the next marriage...how long was that again? 6 months...10? What was the matter, time ticking away too fast?

You see, to me, that's point numero uno on my list - horse trading.

...How did you wife feel inside when you changed the subject to tell her that you wanted to meet other women?   Did you disclose everything, such as your need to belittle others...

There was no changing the subject. Nice try. I was upfront with her and the rest of the women that I planned on coming to Russia to meet them and give us all a chance to meet and speak in person.

I know this is a very alien concept to the likes of you MOBers, but it is what it is...

...Actually, I  defined it well.  Why am I not surprised that a pampered college kid would feel no sacrifice but a sense of adventure....

No you didn't. But nice try. The word used is *sacrifice*.

...No, especially if they decline a marriage offer because they do not want to leave Mother Russia.  You are reaching now, so your bag of insults must be nearing empty....

No I'm not. Try again.

...Based on your mood it is obvious that I am enjoying more real sex than you...

 LOL. Well, it's often said that the mind is the biggest sex organ. In your case, that too, will soon come to pass....

 

...One and out.  Maybe I should review your list with more care.  Nope....

Oh yesssireee Bob!

...Why don't you go through the list of the most recent 30-40 RWD posters and identify who is a social reject, an old geezer, or in the minority.  You don't have the balls, do you....

I thought I just did. I am on record Gator in case you are having difficulty reading these days. The MAJORITY of the AM/FSUW couples I have seen are comprised of men who are old geezers and social rejects. You want me to say that again?

 

....in provincial cites?     No, it usually happened over sushi, or stopping to smell the roses, or.....

Ahhh...provincial cities...was that when you were living up in poor regions like Ukraine when you crashed and burned? Want to share that about yourself?

...Again, this makes no sense.  I offer facts.  You respond with insults.  You are dodging the fact that you inasmuch admitted to being a jerk to someone who tried to help you. ...

Silly, silly old man. Read back to the posts once again tell me where I lumped Irina into the discussion. You can't, can you? Pitiful old man you are.
 

...I may forget some things, but not rudeness....

So you are either senile or just a two-bit liar. To me, you are both.
 

...Pot....kettle...black.   Misha is a well adjusted man who adds a level of intellectual precision to RWD.  And you have the gall to insult him repeatedly about his weight.  That was low GQ, low, but not unexpected from a cockalorum.

Oh, such gallantry...you really touched me....LOL

A well-adjusted man can be  social reject when it comes to dating.

Now, you can't blame women for not wanting to be seen, much less date, a fat man, can you? Or likely men 40 years their senior. So guys like you are MOBers and go out to places like the FSU, and in your case back again, where you can do whatever it is old geezers and social rejects think they can do in those places. I'm not being low for saying that. I'm merely stating facts. So bwalla!...the MOB.

Bottom line is, if this reads a bit painful, well surprise - it should. It's very ugly to read because what so many western men do in poor places of this world are just that, ugly.

[calmissile]

One can think this all strange and unethical but it's a fact in the FSU women, on average, will consider a larger age gap compared to their Western sister. Unwise? It's probably wise in the minds of those women to accept this as they deal with less financial troubles, immaturity, and drama than they would with a younger husband. Living in a place where BS is abundant, the last thing they need is additional BS from a husband and there's less risk, less BS, and more stability, including financially, with an older husband than a younger.

+1

Not only was I told this by my fiance, but from several other FSU women that I either dated or met through friends of friends.  Bo will never accept this because they are not feminists and align with her way of thinking.

Another reason FSU women with young children make 'compromises' of age differences is because they want a good life for their children and cannot find it with FSUM that are available.  It can be a win-win if both parties are compatible and in love.

[calmissile]

Quote from GQ

"I thought I just did. I am on record Gator in case you are having difficulty reading these days. The MAJORITY of the AM/FSUW couples I have seen are comprised of men who are old geezers and social rejects. You want me to say that again? "

Old geezers, maybe but social rejects?  You are the one that is a social reject and every time you open your mouth you prove it.  Having alienated most of the members already, perhaps it is time to put you on ignore!

MAJORITY of the AM/FSUW couples    You are loosing it I am afraid.

[Boethius]

+1

Not only was I told this by my fiance, but from several other FSU women that I either dated or met through friends of friends.  Bo will never accept this because they are not feminists and align with her way of thinking.

Another reason FSU women with young children make 'compromises' of age differences is because they want a good life for their children and cannot find it with FSUM that are available.  It can be a win-win if both parties are compatible and in love.

Tolstoy was referring to marriages, then in fashion in Russia, of teen aged girls with men in their twilight years.  Of course, I don't expect Billy to have read much Tolstoy.


cal, I have spoken to many UW, both in Ukraine and here.  In Ukraine, most are divorced, with children.  Here, most are married to UM.  None of these women are looking for a foreign man.  I have never, ever, heard any of them say what these women tell WM.    It has zero to do with feminism.  Now, you can believe whatever you are told, but it does not make it real.  Go look at stats on the age of first marriage in Ukraine.  The reality is, most UW marry UM.  And, most of those UW are marrying UM of their own age.  Yes, Billy's case is so representative.     A 17 year old telling a middle aged man that a man boy of her age doesn't meet a "stability" factor.  That, I'd agree with.  Most men under 30 are not ready for marriage.


As for your last statement, true.  But, go read some of the RW forums for a while, and learn how many of those women, exactly, are in love with their Western husbands when they marry.  Don't shoot the messenger.  I'm just giving you the facts.

[calmissile]

Bo,
I am not arguing with you about UW marrying UM their own age (first marriage).  Of course that is true. Perhaps I was not clear.  I was talking about divorced UW with young children that will make compomises in age difference because they cannot find UM that will marry them when they have young children.  Being the wonderful loving mothers that UW are, they will make compromises in order to have a better life for their children.

[Boethius]

OK, so let me ask you this.  Knowing most of these women are not in love, why would a man "settle" for a woman who is with him for what he can provide, rather than for who he is? 


I suppose it is not something I understand, both from personal experience and from my family.  I just cannot fathom choosing to live with someone who was not madly, passionately, in love with me, and vice versa.

[jone]

On one side Bo argues that GQ should be congratulated for marrying 'a woman, not a Russian' (which I happen to agree with and congratulate him for).

Second, a common "theme", so to speak, in GQ's posts is he is married to a woman, not a Russian.  He is more interested in the former.  Most of you guys don't get that, and I doubt you ever will.

But on the other side she emphasizes the need/desire for a UW to marry a UM, not a foreigner.

I have spoken to many UW, both in Ukraine and here.  In Ukraine, most are divorced, with children.  Here, most are married to UM.  None of these women are looking for a foreign man.  I have never, ever, heard any of them say what these women tell WM.    It has zero to do with feminism.  Now, you can believe whatever you are told, but it does not make it real.  Go look at stats on the age of first marriage in Ukraine.  The reality is, most UW marry UM. 

I'm not sure that these two points of view contradict, but if they don't, they come awfully close.  Bo is so skilled with words that I think we found her arguing both sides.   Not that I disrespect her for it.   

I was reading something that Eduard said not too long ago.  He said that most FSUW who are not playing the MOB game do not consider marriage to a WM an option.  Not because of lack of desire, but because of lack of opportunity.  I happen to agree with him.

Love happens.  If a match is correct, it does happen.  We can rail at the mismatches that obviously were done in absence of love, but I still believe in the pounding heart, the poetry, the flowers, the silly grin and the deep down love.  Ain't gonna settle for anything less.  And love knows love.  I will happily pass into the diaper set if it does not find me before then.

One of the things that happens on this forum, for those reading it, is that people try to over analyze the interaction between men and women.  In the end, it's just a guy falling for a gal and a gal falling for a guy.  Nothing else really matters. 

It is remaining for us to either accept or condemn that interaction.  Because nothing we say on here or do on here is going to make an ounce of difference to a couple in love.  I hope it's the former.

[Boethius]

But on the other side she emphasizes the need/desire for a UW to marry a UM, not a foreigner.

No, not a need.  My point was, it is a fact that most UW marry UM.  Most RW marry RM.  If you had the statistics of all the million or so marriages performed annually in either Ukraine or Russia, most would be between Ukrainian nationals or between Russian nationals.  The number of FSUW marrying foreigners is fairly miniscule.

In the end, it's just a guy falling for a gal and a gal falling for a guy.

I wish I could believe that sentiment.  But, my anecdotal observance, and the stories I read on forums, suggest otherwise.  I'd put the ratio of love vs mercenary pairings at about 50/50.

[jone]

But, if one reads FSUW forums, many of them, even a slight majority, are not in love with their partners.  They readily admit their partners do not know this.  Hence, they are insincere.  You can ask some of the FSUW who post here for confirmation of this.

Funniest damn thing.  I have read one of those FSUW forums.  Some day I'll tell you why..... They are hen parties.  This guy did this, that guy did that.  The ones that I read were sources to vent unhappiness with their lives.  But knowing one of the women very well who posts on such a forum, she tells me that she uses it to blow off steam.  Women need to do that, men not so much.  The Mars and Venus thing.

But if you were to take in the intimate moments of these women, you would find that what they are yearning for is the romantic love.  I take a slightly different point of view.  In the play Fiddler on the Roof was a song called "Do You Love Me?"   



A kind word, a pleasant smile, a helpmate, a friend.  And the remembrance of the love that you had when you first met.   I would say that love is very much alive in many of these marriages.  My evidence is anecdotal as well.  But as Faux Pas always tells me, I'm a glass half full kinda guy.

[Miri22]

Hen parties? Wow. Keep it classy dude..

[calmissile]

But, if one reads FSUW forums, many of them, even a slight majority, are not in love with their partners.  They readily admit their partners do not know this.  Hence, they are insincere.  You can ask some of the FSUW who post here for confirmation of this.

What can I say?   You know a  lot of FSUW that are scoundrels.  LOL

Any man that has been previously married should know whether his wife/finace is truly in love with him.  Any man that has the vision of the long beautiful legs wrapped around his neck every morning is undoubtedly not very bright!

I guess I am lucky in that respect.  No one has ever fooled me as to whether they are in love with me.  Somehow I suspect that your friends on women's forums are not completely honest with you.  There are very few women that are clever and talented enough to fool a wise man as to whether they are truly in love with them.

With the personal time together and daily Skype chats with a gal and her family, it is rather easy to sort out the fakes.   I guess I might have to somewhat agree with you that there are men culpable that do not spend enough time to determine the sincerity of the fiance before marriage.  There are a thousand red flags offered in the forums, so there is really no excuse except for the few pros that can pull it off.

Even in my mistake/failure there was no question about love.  It was a case of incompatibility and personality differences that could not be reconciled.  By the same token, out of thousands of women that are available, there is at least one for everyone that is sincere and capable of being a lifetime partner. 

Again, it takes a lot of time, effort, and money to find the right one.  It's no different than seeking a partner in your own country (if you can find what you are willing to marry).

The MOB image of going to Ukraine and instantly finding a compatible wife is somewhat of a dream rather than reality.  Some get lucky, but I agree it is not the norm.  At the same time, I do not necessarily think my method is any better than anyone else's method.

My third visit was to go on an extended vacation and further integrate into the culture and get close to my friends that are residents.  They seem to know the real world and give great advice.  It takes a lot of money and time to use this approach and I realize that many men do not have the resources to use this method.

I think the bottom line is to spend a lot of time with your prospective partner in person and then to spend a lot of time in daily chats on Skype.  I don't know how to explain it, but the time you spend together on a daily basis will help ferret out the fakes from the ones truly in love.

From your post, I gather that the real problem is that AM are easily fooled by the long legs, blond hair, and BS that is transmitted by the insincere women.  Perhaps some more clues offered to the FSUW seekers would prevent some of the GC gals that you speak about from being successful.

I have a question for you.  Why are these gals you talk about voicing their deceit on a woman's forum?  Did they not get what they wanted?  They apparently got a marriage and a green card.  What the hell did they want.... Brad Pit?

[calmissile]

Funniest damn thing.  I have read one of those FSUW forums.  Some day I'll tell you why..... They are hen parties.  This guy did this, that guy did that.  The ones that I read were sources to vent unhappiness with their lives.  But knowing one of the women very well who posts on such a forum, she tells me that she uses it to blow off steam.  Women need to do that, men not so much.  The Mars and Venus thing.

But if you were to take in the intimate moments of these women, you would find that what they are yearning for is the romantic love.  I take a slightly different point of view.  In the play Fiddler on the Roof was a song called "Do You Love Me?"   

Oh shit!  You are cracking me up!  Why is it FSU women constantly ask "Why do you love me"?
I finally said it is because of her cooking.  LOL.  I get tired of answering the same question daily.  Apparently she finally got the humor in my tired answers.



A kind word, a pleasant smile, a helpmate, a friend.  And the remembrance of the love that you had when you first met.   I would say that love is very much alive in many of these marriages.  My evidence is anecdotal as well.  But as Faux Pas always tells me, I'm a glass half full kinda guy.

[calmissile]

Jon,

Yes, I have learned that FSUW need a lot more attention and confirmation that you love them than do AW.  It's not all bad, just an adjustment.  LOL

[Ade]

There are very few women that are clever and talented enough to fool a wise man as to whether they are truly in love with them.

And the fantasies continue....


Women don't have to try very hard. Men deceive themselves quite well enough by themselves...

[IAmZon]

After another absence from this place, I stopped by for a quick scan.  I found the same old poop, and some pearls of wisdom.


1, Regarding the give and take between Gator and LA ... Why do people on internet discussion boards attempt to draw real life awareness about a person?  It seems obviously impossible, much less inappropriate! 


2, Regarding the core topic of this site ...

OK, so let me ask you this.  Knowing most of these women are not in love, why would a man "settle" for a woman who is with him for what he can provide, rather than for who he is? 


I suppose it is not something I understand, both from personal experience and from my family.  I just cannot fathom choosing to live with someone who was not madly, passionately, in love with me, and vice versa.

What more ever needs to be said?