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Men's Code of Conduct
« on: February 21, 2009, 08:43:12 AM »
Some of you may recall that RWD initiated a 'project' some time ago to attempt to provide guidelines of conduct for Men involved in this pursuit. After significant time and effort, and a few disruptions along the way which stalled publication, the Men's Code of Conduct is now ready for release.

What follows is the Code of Conduct for Men, and it also may be found at this link -- http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=45

Quote

Need for Guidelines

When a Western man travels to the FSU, he will encounter a culture that differs from his culture in remarkable ways. Even the mentality of FSU women is not the same as that of Western women.

As with anything, perception is more important than reality. Few FSU women have much experience with meeting and dating Western men. They will judge men largely based on the norms of their society and be influenced by their history with FSU men, all filtered through their hopes and aspirations. Western men will likely do the same.

In addition, men and women will enter this with preconceived misperceptions; e. g. a western man frequently will discover that good FSU women are not low-hanging fruit ready to be picked, and they can be more sophisticated and educated than him.

The cultural differences and misperceptions can allow and even promote cross-cultural misunderstandings, sometimes to the point of frustrating if not ending what could have been a compatible relationship.

This document presents a set of guidelines for men’s behavior when dating FSU women. Essentially, it is a partial list of the do’s and do not’s. It should help a well-intentioned man not make a fool of himself or unknowingly offend a woman. Taken further, these guidelines should place the man in a more positive light before women.

Development of Guidelines

A committee was formed to develop a proposed set of guidelines for presentation to RWD at large. The committee members are as follows:
  • Gator (Committee Lead)
  • BillyB
  • Daveman
  • KenC
  • Kuna
  • Kvinna
  • Lily
  • SANDRO43
  • ScottinCrimea
The formation of the committee fomented much spirited debate, and at that time several RWD members suggested particular guidelines. To supplement this, members of Anti-date were surveyed about the types of disrespectful behavior for which some guidelines were needed. In addition, marriage agencies were surveyed about their ideas. The questions and responses from Antidate is attached as an Appendix to this report.

The many suggestions were analyzed, compiled along common themes, and reworked in a common style to yield the proposed set of guidelines.

Objective of Guidelines

The guidelines essentially are about respect - respecting the women and respecting yourself. Respect is very important to FSU women.

If a man shows respect, he may just earn her respect and eventually the trust that she needs to believe in him and to give up her family, friends, country and job to follow him to a foreign land.

Target Audience

Men with serious intentions and who are educating themselves about the pursuit should find the guidelines beneficial. The guidelines will not stop reprobates such as married guys who bed young FSU girls with false promises of marriage. Nor will it help the clueless. Nevertheless, the guidelines should steer the majority of men in a more positive direction.

Enforcement

These are guidelines; they are informative. Enforcement is well beyond their purview.

Nevertheless, the guidelines will be enforced - indirectly. Namely, if you disrespect a FSU woman, be prepared for a severe mental beating or for her to tell you “goodbye forever.” It will come quickly, with little or no warning, and what she decides will likely not be reversible.

What about the men who purposefully deceive women merely for sex? An informed competent woman can spot the bad men and avoid them. Reputable agencies can detect suspect behavior and step in. And if a man slips past these defenses, there are initiatives such as Anti-date’s blacklist.


GUIDELINES

During Correspondence:
  • Be honest by using current photographs and telling the truth about height, weight, criminal record and other personal details that should be disclosed before meeting.
  • Be yourself – do not pretend to be someone you are not.
  • Learn proper etiquette, and educate yourself to be aware of the customs and culture of the locations you're visiting.
  • Do not send sexually explicit information or photographs to a lady without her explicit request/consent to receive them.
When Meeting:
  • Be a gentleman in all respects.
  • Accept financial responsibility for dates, and expect nothing in return for dates or gifts given.
  • Practice good hygiene and show respect by the way you present and dress yourself in public places.
  • Always practice safe sex to prevent sexually-transmitted diseases (STD’s) or unplanned pregnancy.
  • Respect a lady's decision if she says she doesn’t wish to continue your relationship and do not defame her for such decisions.
After meeting, and/or as the Relationship Develops:
  • Always show discretion and protect a lady's privacy and integrity.
  • Exercise great care and consideration in any decision to post the photo of a lady on the internet.
  • Don’t discuss sexual relationships on any public web site.
  • As the relationship develops, disclose all pertinent information such as financial status, job description and security, housing situation, health issues including any diseases you may be afflicted with, legacy issues like children and alimony. A gentleman should be open to discussing previous marriages, engagements and de-facto relationships, including when and why they ended if the lady asks.

DISCUSSION OF GUIDELINES

During Correspondence

When corresponding with a lady it's important to be honest and truthful about yourself. Use current photographs and tell the truth about height, weight, criminal record and other personal details, particularly your current circumstances and your intentions. It not only shows respect for the lady, her time and emotions, but it is also good risk mitigation for you. Some men may be tempted to embellish their personal attributes, but doing so is to mislead the lady and increase your risk for rejection when a meeting does take place.

Before you travel it's wise to educate yourself on the customs, culture and proper etiquette of the places you'll visit. Learn proper etiquette. This will ensure you make the best of your time in a foreign country and reduce your risk of making an innocent, but sometimes terminal, faux pas.

Simple things like making a joke about a lady's city or country might be enough for her to reject you without you even knowing it. Understanding her culture and her country's history will almost certainly endear you to the lady as well.

Assume nothing about ladies from the FSU and don't think or, even worse, tell her that she's expected to act in a certain way based on comments read from an internet website or some purported "How-To" guidebooks. Keep an open mind.

Do not send sexually explicit information or photographs to a lady without her explicit request/consent to receive them. Whilst this may be the most obvious piece of advice you'll ever hear it still needs to be said. It's surprising that a common complaint from ladies that are seeking international marriage is that they frequently receive sexually explicit material from men they have never met. Russian women are naturally passionate and expressive to their partners, but most are conservative and reserved before meeting.

When Meeting

Be a gentleman in all respects. Being a gentleman comes with many obligations. It's not just opening doors or taking a lady's hand as she alights from a car. It includes taking responsibility for all of the masculine duties and showing a lady the ultimate in respect and care.

Gentlemanly behavior isn't an option with most FSUW. There is an expectation that you will be decisive, attentive and well-mannered at all times.

A gentleman should accept financial responsibility for dates, and expect nothing in return for dates or gifts given. If you invite a lady to dinner be prepared to happily pay for the bill without question or expectation of any returned favors by the lady. A FSU man would almost always pay the costs of a date and western men dating in FSU should do no less.

Paying for a date doesn't mean you should expect any privileges or favors, but often a lady will make her own contributions later on through special things she will do for her man. Some of these things might appear to have a low financial cost to you but may be of significant personal value to her.

If you are taking responsibility for arranging dating activities, you will be the one to set the pace of the expenditure. A man should never outspend his capacity but he should understand there is an expectation that he will not rely on a lady to pay half the costs.

Practice good hygiene and show respect by the way you present and dress yourself in public places. A FSUW may see bad hygiene as a sign of disrespect so a man should always ensure he is presented at his best when dating in FSU. Being freshly showered with clean teeth and clothes are obvious matters but a man should also be aware of his clothing style in FSU countries.

Whilst you will read of men who feel shorts and bright colors are acceptable in summer the majority might suggest that conservative clothing is the better option. Darker colored clothing is common for men in FSU and on more formal occasions it would be impressive to be dressed in a suit even with an open neck shirt and no tie. A FSUW wants to be proud of her man and dress standards definitely have an impact on social status and public perception. Pay particular attention to your shoes and never wear stained or heavily worn clothing.

Always practice safe sex to prevent Sexually Transmitted Diseases (STD's) or unplanned pregnancy. Whilst safe sex is highly important for the prevention of sexually-transmitted diseases men should also consider the significant hardship a lady may endure in the event of an unplanned pregnancy. The use of contraceptives may not be in the front of the mind for some FSU ladies who are so willing to trust you, so the man should take the initiative, ensure he is aware of all possible eventualities and be respectful of the obligations that come with his actions. At the beginning of a relationship, this will make the woman feel safe and should impress her that you are not self-centered, that you are dependable, and that she can trust you.

Respect a lady's decision if she decides she doesn't wish to continue your relationship and do not defame her for such decisions. If a lady decides she sees no future in the relationship a man must accept her decision without resorting to slander or degradation of a ladies character. Some men have been known to slander a lady on public websites when a relationship ends without deeply considering the reasons for, and events leading to such a decision.

Just as we would expect mature conduct at the end of a relationship a man should realize that at all times a lady has the right to choose her own destiny. A relationship ending early is more preferable to one that ends when there are greater legal and social obligations in place.

After meeting, and/or as the Relationship Develops

Always show discretion and protect a lady's privacy and integrity. Discretion and privacy are tantamount to trust for many FSU women. Even if a relationship does not materialize from a meeting, a gentleman would never slander a lady publicly or malign her integrity without proven facts of misconduct. Always be conscious of any information you publish to a public domain and assume the subject of discussion will be seen by thousands of people, including the lady.

Publishing photos of an FSU lady that you meet when visiting the FSU can be educational, yet any photo should meet the following criteria: the photo and associated narrative is respectful of the lady and could not be used to ridicule or harass the lady, no private information is provided, and the lady either consented to the publishing of her photo or it is reasonable to assume she would have given consent.

Don't discuss your sexual relationships on any public web site. Any discussion of sexual engagements on a public website will be seen as abhorrent, not only to the lady involved but to many known and anonymous people on the internet. If the temptation ever arises a man should refer to earlier clauses in this Code of Conduct relating to gentlemanly behavior and the obligations of every man who seeks a long term relationship in FSU.

As the relationship develops, a man should disclose all pertinent information such as financial status, job description and security, housing situation, health issues including any diseases you may be afflicted with or legacy issues like children and alimony.

Be aware that many FSUW would prefer not to discuss your previous relationships, but if you are questioned you should be honest and forthright, without slandering your former partner(s). If the lady asks, these would include previous marriages, engagements and de-facto relationships, including when they ended and why.

Sometimes it's not appropriate or necessary to discuss intimate matters very early in a relationship, but as a relationship evolves a man should be open to discussing all personal matters with his partner. As in early correspondence, it's important to be honest with a lady because any embellishment or exaggerations of your personal situation can lead to disappointment or even failure before or after marriage.


APPENDIX 'A'
QUESTIONS AND RESPONSES TO/FROM ANTIDATE

  1. Please list up to 5 behaviors which a man can have which will cause you to immediately want to end relations?
    • When my finances are low and i feel sad about it and my man appears in new clothes while declaring that he has no or very-very-very little money.
    • When a man says he can't go on vacation together, cancells it but goes there alone hiding from me.
    • Telling lies, greedyness, self-neglect, unintelligence, laziness.
    • Beeing greedy, control-freak (being in control of my life), paying attention to other girls in my presence and while i'm not around.
    • BEING GREEDY, bad habits, lying, overuse of nice words and compliments, inadequate actions.
    • Sex-talks, taking unhealthy interest in children.
    • Lying, self-admiration, being stupid, lover-boy.
    • Being greedy, lying, arrogance, irresponsibility, sexual harassment.
    • Don't like when he elaborates "she's russian" in public.
  2. Please list up to 5 behaviors western men sometimes have which you think are rude?
    • Statements like "you should learn English better because all you're trying to say has no sence at all" (and they can not say even two russian words themselves).
    • Jokes about premenstrual syndrom, climax etc.
    • When showing disrespect towards my home land or towards russians, stressing that russians is a second class nationality, when showing absolutely no knowledge of geography.
    • Disrespect towards women in general, critisizing my country, showing no good manners, detailed description of their ex-wives or girlfriends.
    • He thinks he's joking while i think he's just being rude.
    • Talks from the position of strength (here're my condition, put up with it), warning "i was just scammed so i'm not going to send any money to you" (in a second letter).
    • Discredit, sexual harassment in pubic, sex talks on early stages of correspondence, acting differently from what was being told.
    • Sex-talks, being a control-freak.
    • Being greedy.
    • Being greedy, constant talks about their exes, paying attention to other women in my presence, comments on level of my English, disrespect for Russia, russian traditions and russian people.
    • Dividing the property into "mine and not mine".
  3. Please list up to 5 habits western men may have which you think are annoying?
    • Don't know if it's a habbit of western men or i just met such people... When going to a restaurant a man says he's not hungry. Why then did we come there? And what should i do if i don't want to eat alone - just shy about it? May be they go to the restaurants in the west just to talk, i don't know...
    • Being a snob, greedy, mercantile, liar.
    • He doesn't listen to my arguments (in a discussion) and is not going to.
    • Blow one's nose loudly, fart in public places (talking about germans), drink too much beer in pubs and after sing songs loudly, bad behaviour while being abroad, overtalk.
    • Blowing one's nose while eating together.
    • Habit of constantly saving, smiling constantly, unceremonious treatment and talking loudly in public places.
    • No sence of humour, no willingness to learn about our culture, habit of constantly following the rules.
    • Self-neglect, blowing one's nose loudly in public, pick nose or scratch oneself, no knowledge how to use fork and spoon.
    • Not closing door while being in the restroom, farting loudly and saying that it's just natural, picking nose, teeth etc., scratching balls (again - just natural), blowing nose very loudly.
  4. What qualities are most important to you in a man?
    • Ability to talk and keep silence when appropriate.
    • Being atentive and take care of me not because i want it but he wants it too.
    • Intelligence, ability to take care, kindness, religion.
    • Honesty, sence of humor, ability to take care, intelligence.
    • Wisdom, sence of humor, generosity, intelligence.
    • Women in Russia appreciate the sence of comfort when around a man, stability.
    • Being decent.
    • Honesty, being a real man not only physically but mentally in other aspects.
    • Generosity, kindness, taking care, sincerity, sence of humour.
    • Taking interest in events in my country, learning my language, personal hygiene, if not generosity then rational planning.
  5. What values/qualities are the most important to you in a marriage?
    • Communication, sex, mutual help, sometimes giving each other a rest from being together, mutual goals in life - family, children etc.
    • Honesty, respect, support, mutal goals and plans for future.
    • Respect, trust, ablity to listen, to compromise.
    • Wisdom, taking care of one's wife, willing to compromise.

Issued: 21 February 2009


Thanks to all who participated in development of these guidelines. I know for some, it was an extremely challenging and ungratifying task.

Special thanks to Gator for taking on this challenge of establishing this guideline and bridging major chasms in values and perspectives of several of the participants.

- Dan
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 08:50:53 AM by Admin »

Offline Admin

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Men's Code of Conduct
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2009, 09:03:02 AM »
And BTW - now having closely read AD's responses to question # 3, I have resolved to never again blow my nose in public  ;D

- Dan

Offline groovlstk

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« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2009, 09:25:32 AM »
Quote
habit of constantly following the rules.

There's a big cultural divide over this type of thinking  :P

Offline Misha

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« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2009, 09:36:45 AM »
Quote
Not closing door while being in the restroom, farting loudly and saying that it's just natural, picking nose, teeth etc., scratching balls (again - just natural), blowing nose very loudly.

Makes you wonder what type of guy goes to the FSU looking for women  :rolleyes2:

Then again, the constant referral to men being "greedy" makes me wonder how much "generosity" it will take to have the women overlook these shortcomings  :evil:

Offline OlgaH

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« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2009, 02:26:46 PM »
Makes you wonder what type of guy goes to the FSU looking for women  :rolleyes2:

Me too.

Misha we have a saying in Russia "Teach a child while he can lie down across the bed" It means if a man did not adopt good manners when he was young, it will be difficult for him to understand what the good manners are and to teach him when he is adult.   


Then again, the constant referral to men being "greedy" makes me wonder how much "generosity" it will take to have the women overlook these shortcomings  :evil:

Agree. Every woman has her own understanding of a man's generosity, and some woman easily can put a man in her black list "the greedy men" if he did not buy her a Versace dress after one day he spent with her or he did not invite her for dinner in the most expensive restaurant.

« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 02:55:18 PM by OlgaH »

Offline OlgaH

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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2009, 02:27:37 PM »
Quote

The guidelines essentially are about respect - respecting the women and respecting yourself. Respect is very important to FSU women.

If a man shows respect, he may just earn her respect and eventually the trust that she needs to believe in him and to give up her family, friends, country and job to follow him to a foreign land.


Respect is important for any woman from any country. All your level of respect will be displayed through your communication with a woman/women in any situation, including correspondence and even open forums. You should take into account that some women who are involved in dating also can read and participate in the forums  ;)   

There are women who don't care what happened in your past and most likely they will not question your past relationships, but there also are women who would like to know a man better before to link their destiny to him. Therefore as I already have written:

any man should expect there will be many questions from a woman whom he dates and tries to build a relationship, doesn't matter where she is from, to him "why?" and he should also expect to hear her opinions on his answers or his story. And any woman will make her own conclusions and decision on the base how the man reacts, gives his story, his answers and able to listen and perceive her comments, especially with some criticism, and her further questions that can even tickle his self-esteem and pride.  And if the man can only fall into frustration firing on her with his insults and accusation of arrogance, ignorance, intolerance, idiotic mentality and so on...  sorry, he is not ready to date any woman.

And a good notice from Blues Fairy for men to remember during correspondence and meeting ;)


A perfect "10" can quickly slide to a perfect "0" once he opens his big mouth and starts talking nonsense.
 
« Last Edit: February 21, 2009, 02:54:29 PM by OlgaH »

Offline Misha

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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2009, 03:03:50 PM »
Agree. Every woman has her own understanding of a man's generosity, and some woman easily can put a man in her black list "the greedy men" if he did not buy her a Versace dress after one day he spent with her or he did not invite her for dinner in the most expensive restaurant.

Ain't that the truth  :evil: According to the AD standards, I would have been the prince, nay the king of greedy  :'( I did not buy my wife a present for months, did not take her out to any restaurants, did not really spend much money at all to be honest   :angel: Somehow we still managed to get married and have been together now for close to three years  8)

Offline Admin

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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2009, 03:07:45 PM »
Ain't that the truth  :evil: According to the AD standards, I would have been the prince, nay the king of greedy  :'( I did not buy my wife a present for months, did not take her out to any restaurants, did not really spend much money at all to be honest   :angel: Somehow we still managed to get married and have been together now for close to three years  8)

>>According to the AD standards<<

Do they have "standards"? They have participated in a couple of our projects, but am unaware of any publications of "standards" on their own.

I'd be interested in seeing those.

- Dan

Offline Misha

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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2009, 06:09:50 PM »
I guess these dudes might struggle also..............................

But, you can't accuse the first guy of greediness. He is so generous that he gave away all his clothing to the last stitch  ;)

As for the other two, they are demonstrating, I am sure, that they are showing respect to local customs and mores by dressing in traditional kilts without those foreign imposed accoutrements such as underwear  8)


Offline kievstar

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« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2009, 05:38:43 AM »
Many men in Asian countries will have problems with the nose blowing.  Sometimes I think they like to see how far they can shoot stuff out of their nose. They love what is called "A factory special".  Surprised it was not an Olympic event in Beijing. 

One thing I do not like is very few men in Ukraine wash their hands after pissing.  So beware ladies.  I  am not sure Ukraine men in a public place realize that a sink is used for your hands after pissing.  Could be worse many American men piss in the sink or on the floor when the urinals are full.

Girls in Kiev tell me Europe men tend to be more greedy than American men.  Germans and French are very greedy.  They also tell me American men tend to be fatter and have less hair than Europe men.  I have never heard about the farting but that is not good or any "Dutch Ovens". These girls laugh about when I explain the term "going Dutch on a date".  The Dutch get a bad rap. 

More on greedy.  Many men try to impress these girls of talk of what money they make and personal things they have.  You brag about money you better dish the money out. 

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« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2009, 09:33:01 AM »
Something that might be overlooke, as it is hard to catgorize, is to know when to shut your mouth about what you think to know.
When you look at Russia and European/world history from Russian eyes, you get a completely different picture.
By proclaiming 'victory' without actually knowing the other side, you can look very foolish or at least stubborn.

So always respect that there are other points of view, and be willing to meet each other half way.
No it is not a dog. Its really how I look.  ;)

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« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2009, 01:11:48 PM »
An impressively comprehensive, useful -- and I daresay, accurate list. The labor and result much appreciated.  Neatly also raises the important question, has anybody over there ever heard of Immanuel Kant? :truce:
"But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow..." -- John Lennon

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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2009, 01:23:23 PM »
Neatly also raises the important question, has anybody over there ever heard of Immanuel Kant? :truce:

Until now, no.. but thanks!  really! - after almost 50 years so much to learn still...

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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2009, 03:47:50 PM »
has anybody over there ever heard of Immanuel Kant?
If by over there you mean Russia, they should since his birthplace, Königsberg, has been Kaliningrad since 1945, and still is - a Russian enclave.

BTW, rather cryptic as your first post here.
Milan's "Duomo"

Offline JCB

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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2009, 07:58:00 PM »
Yes I meant that region of the world -- apologies for the ambiguity -- and the irony (see the rule about HUMOR!) that he's "from there" just compounds his aptness for inclusion in -- well no, his centrality to --  a first post about a set of rules of conduct in which "respect" figures so prominently, if, given his corpus, perversely, and thus made any perceived protocol faux pas worth risking. 

As both a professional cultural anthropologist and philosopher, it was just "WOW how kool is THIS"...  As you now see,and as a a kind of neo-Kantian myself, it's transparency I'm really after, and fully hope I won't be "sent to Siberia" before I get to more formally introduce myself!

As stated in what could not be much clearer, my respect for the dedication and "seriousness of purpose" that went into compiling the thing is one reason I'm posting at all... In info gathering, as in the search for a partner, it's not just about how hot the info or she is, it's about... well, respect.  Someone's "cryptic" oughta end, where my Kantian respect begins -- hopefully right here and now! :whew:

"But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao, you ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow..." -- John Lennon

Offline LarsXYZ

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« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2013, 03:54:32 PM »
Reg-:
What qualities are most important to you in a man?
 - Intelligence, ability to take care, kindness, religion

I must say that I was disturbed to see the word religion, since I don't see religion as anything positive, rather the opposite

BR Lars
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 03:57:17 PM by LarsXYZ »

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« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2013, 10:02:48 PM »
Of course you are free to practice your opinion but for me the opposite has been true and you can find a lady from either perspective in the FSU.
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Offline mendeleyev

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« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2013, 10:08:36 PM »
As for Immanuel Kant, there is the university named for him: Балтийский федеральный университет имени Иммануила Канта.

It was previously known as
the University of Konigsberg. There is a large monument to him and a museum.
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Offline yaricksl

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« Reply #18 on: July 13, 2015, 04:36:18 AM »
the majority dont abide by rules on 11m in the first instance so why does anyone think they will abide by the code of conduct?

All the hard work to push the code of conduct will be futile
Если дела идут плохо не ходи с ними.

Offline yaricksl

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« Reply #19 on: July 13, 2015, 09:48:14 AM »
I guess that 11m DXing is sort of legal now with CEPT SSB and AM, but any code of conduct is slightly patronising to say the least.
Если дела идут плохо не ходи с ними.

Offline SANDRO43

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« Reply #20 on: July 13, 2015, 12:38:14 PM »
I guess that 11m DXing
What would that be?
Quote
but any code of conduct is slightly patronising to say the least.
That Code was culled by our more experienced members more as a list of useful suggestions, not as strict norms.

BTW, how is life of a Norwegian Antarctic island ;)?
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« Reply #21 on: July 13, 2015, 07:06:54 PM »
What would that be?

Ham radio.

BTW, how is life of on a Norwegian Antarctic island ;)?

Judging by some of his posts, it's rather colder than the optimum temperature which his thought processes require.

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« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2015, 10:41:16 PM »
Funny cause this is a thread about the code of conduct.
Если дела идут плохо не ходи с ними.

Offline yaricksl

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« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2015, 07:04:47 AM »
personally i believe we need something like this, as every time anyone puts up a mafia game, we steal each others rules. One place, one core set of rules and conduct, and it will save everyone time. any rules that should be on here? please post them and we will update them.
Если дела идут плохо не ходи с ними.

 

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