Trip Report

[southernX]

Hello Obda,

I am sorry you were unhappy with my services...

I recall our emails a little differently.  S was very interested in you, and I do not know why she stopped writing you.  However, I do know what occurred with the flower delivery.  S works in a very official job, and she was in a serious meeting which was interrupted by the flower delivery person.  S was upset that her meeting was interrupted and she was given flowers in front of her whole office.  For women in Ukraine, these types of things, especially if speculation is she will leave her job to move abroad, can kill a career.  Because of that delivery, S called me and asked why I didn't make the flower delivery.  She assumed the delivery had been arranged through me, and had I come in, I would not have made a production of giving her the flowers.  I always call beforehand, to ensure it is convenient for the woman to receive flowers, and whether she wishes them to be delivered at work or at home.    That was why I emailed you, Odba, and asked why you didn't let me do that.  S asked me to.  Had you explained anything, I would have called S back with your explanation and crafted an apology for you.  But I needed to understand why you sent the flowers to her work.  I would have called S back to explain, and emailed you back at no charge.   

I was unaware that S stopped communicating with you.  Were I to guess why, I think it is because above all else, Ukrainian women are practical.  She sensed that continued communication with a foreigner would place her job, one that is high paying, in jeopardy.  Things with you may not work out,  and if they did not, she still has to support herself.  I am sorry things did not proceed as you wished over something that should have been trivial.

mila , thank you for taking the time to respond to this thread

odba , i find mila,s explanation  above perfectly accurate and acceptable with my experiences in ukraine and particulary kharkov .

wallm and others have been quick to write of cultural differences .but in this case its an example to learn from , unless you have asked your lady of interest , YOU SHOULD NEVER SEND FLOWERS OR GIFTS TO HER WORK OR CONTACT HER THEIR   full stop ...

i always sent flowers /gifts etc to my now wifes home address  for exactly the reason mila describes , my wife , did not wish her employer to know she was dating a foreign man and she did not wish them to potentialy terminate her regardless of how good she was at her work or length of service

industrial relations /human resources work very differently in ukriane to most other places in the west , so our understanding of what is acceptable or allowed is very different in many cases their

my wife was a single mum , her job was critical to her life and support of a child and mum , its not something to  be trifled with just because you wish to impress her with flowers mate

think before you act , its most likly this girl dropped you as such a public gaff for her shows a side to you she did not like , and along with your time spent together cleary led her to believe you where not suitable long term mate

look at what you did , rather than blame others here imo
you should have used your paid time with mila better to ask and understand the ''normal '' or accepted way to send the flowers , instead you thought you would save some coin and go it alone , you did that , and you where shown a valuable lesson that you did not learn from at that time

lesson for all players in this game , if you dont know things and you dont wish to pay someone like mila for the help and information that improves your understanding on how to proceed , then dam well read up and do your research  before you go off half arsed make a mistake and blame others for it

SX

[Boethius]

I don't think it is the public gaffe that caused her to drop him.  I think it was more than likely her fear of someone in a position of power at her workplace discovering it, and terminating her employment.  Keep in mind, she has no wrongful dismissal recourse there.

[southernX]

I don't think it is the public gaffe that caused her to drop him.  I think it was more than likely her fear of someone in a position of power at her workplace discovering it, and terminating her employment.  Keep in mind, she has no wrongful dismissal recourse there.

exactly bo , i understand how they work in practical terms with on the spot dismissal , discrimination and all the other employer tactics used there like companys going bankrupt or death or a employee etc

i can imagine how my wife would have reacted if i had of done the same to her , often/usually people their are intensly private ime , their personal business is exactly that , and should never be publicly discussed or from milas comment made into a ''production ''at work


there are many degrees to this , but ime it is a common trait that is different to the more ''open ''west attitude we have to such things

similar to talking about a new arrival or upcoming birth of a baby , new job , income , holiday plans etc its often off limits with other co workers OVER THERE

im also heavily inclined to think she had discovered enough about odba to know he was not suitable for her and it was a combination effect capped of with the flowers , once she had  time to reflect on it all

SX

[ML]

OK Mila and the others; the flower situation has been beaten to death.

But the OP had many other complaints . . . not just the flower situation.

[Boethius]

I just see some nickel and dime stuff in the rest of the story.  He never stated, but what are we talking about here?  $20 for interpreting? An "overcharging" of how much?  Are Ukrainians not supposed to have Iphones?  Just as in the US, Ukrainians can buy cellphones on plans, plus they are cheaper in Ukraine than in most countries due to a lack of tariffs.

S wanted Mila at the first meeting.  The OP looked at that with suspicion, rather than she may not have felt comfortable with her English, particularly if she doesn't interact with native speakers. 

As I posted, I don't know Mila, and will never use her services.  So I certainly am not defending her here, and contrary to what some posters have suggested, I am not a Mila "groupie".  But, what I sense in Odba's posts was he was anticipating looking at being taken advantage of, so that is what he saw.  He looked for the worst.  Mila hasn't addressed these issues, which aren't fleshed out, so at this point, it is largely speculation.  But were she to respond, I suspect we'd learn there is Odba's perception, there is Mila's perception, and the real truth is somewhere in the middle.

[southernX]

I just see some nickel and dime stuff in the rest of the story.  He never stated, but what are we talking about here?  $20 for interpreting? An "overcharging" of how much?  Are Ukrainians not supposed to have Iphones?  Just as in the US, Ukrainians can buy cellphones on plans, plus they are cheaper in Ukraine than in most countries due to a lack of tariffs.

S wanted Mila at the first meeting.  The OP looked at that with suspicion, rather than she may not have felt comfortable with her English, particularly if she doesn't interact with native speakers. 

As I posted, I don't know Mila, and will never use her services.  So I certainly am not defending her here, and contrary to what some posters have suggested, I am not a Mila "groupie".  But, what I sense in Odba's posts was he was anticipating looking at being taken advantage of, so that is what he saw.  He looked for the worst.  Mila hasn't addressed these issues, which aren't fleshed out, so at this point, it is largely speculation.  But were she to respond, I suspect we'd learn there is Odba's perception, there is Mila's perception, and the real truth is somewhere in the middle.

agree bo

im not a mila groupie either
but having read odbas post and mila response to the flower issue ,  my feeling is he was  a tad preoccupied with cost and wanted to take some short cuts or at least was viewing any charges with negativity /suspicion , thus he believed he was being ripped off

with things like taxis at airport , from kharkiv airport to city it is about 100 grivnas with alocal taxi , maybe 250 if you use a hotel , if he felt he was overcharged he had chance to refuse or speak up and query it , SO I THINK HE PAID 400 ??   thats around $16 australian  dollars he paid compared to the lower cost of $ 4-10 australian dollars , without knowing if he got a quality car supplied by mila , airconditioned , new , leather interior etc ,with adriver who drives carefully with a client  compared to a local secondhand buzz box taxi driven by a suss dude who may or may not follow road rules and pay attention while driving  or have super loud music or be fiddling with his phone the whole way lol   

as a foreigner he was never going to get a taxi for the local price of 100 or so , if he cant speak the lingo , and has no experience with the drivers there , he will get taken for aride literally on the price   all these things should be discussed before he booked and arrived if he had concerns imo with mila , better communication about expectations lessens issues

SX

[wallm]

odba, don't buy the narrative that ukrainian women are all hot, family oriented, etc. Sure there are some wonderful women there but few and far between. Perhaps you should consider local women. Our American women are not all fat and feminazis.

Read these two threads below for valuable information if you must find an FSUW.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22374.0
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22390.0

[JayH]

but few and far between.

Your channelling Trenchcoat with your broad generalisations.
The fact is that you too have had a fairly narrow exposure and now often repeat your comment  or that theme.

[Trenchcoat]

I would actually say they are family orientated but its not always easy to get to that, cultural differences and other issues the girls have get in the way. These I think can be too easily underestimated, I did, and often not easily got around. For where I am in the UK local girls are simply not even on the table as an option, feminism has seen to that. Most men I am guessing look abroad as they see they have little other choice. It is often said that if you can date locally & find someone decent most would whether its WM or FSW.

[msmob]

For where I am in the UK local girls are simply not even on the table as an option, feminism has seen to that. Most men I am guessing look abroad as they see they have little other choice. It is often said that if you can date locally & find someone decent most would whether its WM or FSW.

More Trench twaddle..

Plenty of single family orientated UK women and even disillusioned  E.European and FSU W ...

Having read your posts  on here - most of us see your issues - as would any lady you date.

[alex330]

The flowers was a bad move as others have said. It could have impacted her negatively at work and day to day life. In fact many Ukrainian women will not tell anyone they are dating a foreigner or moving overseas for a number of reasons. Jealousy, loss of employment, sabotage, and lets not forget the whole superstitious aspect.

$50 per intro is standard I think? I know that $20 per hour for a good terp is quite normal. Taxi sounds outrageous for Ukraine.

I do notice a few strange things about this trip from both parties. Minor flags, but raises questions.

The extra items on the menu, padded taxi bills, Meeting a woman on her birthday? In Ukraine birthdays are quite special. I find it hard to believe a woman would spend it with a stranger versus family or friends...

From the OP I see some minor complaining about petty things. Maybe that gave the women a certain impression about him as a person (true or not).

Mila said the S is like a sister to her

If that is so, I imagine they would have chatted and Mila knows the reason.

[alex330]

Some years ago when guys still relied a lot on Marriage Agencies (as opposed to dating websites), there were comments that honest Marriage Agencies actually could not compete with the dishonest ones, and so they became dishonest over time also.

I think a similar thing happens with once honest match makers and interpreters.

Like my wife says. There is no money in love.

[msmob]

Like my wife says. There is no money in love.

But there's certainly money in 'helping' those who seek it ?

[Trenchcoat]

On the same theme -- a guy showing up unannounced at a girls work can = potential disaster
                            --- "   "       "         "        "              " "    "    home "    "     "           "
What it means is that you need to be in a girls life to learn what and when is an appropriate time for any contact -- and that even includes calling .
     

What if a guy shows up at her home? I assume the fallout would be different than at work, lack of knowledge of family she was foreign dating, her not letting them know she might be willing to move abroad, view of WM within her family?

[alex330]

But there's certainly money in 'helping' those who seek it ?

Nah, mostly headaches. Unless you have a service like Ed does where he charges astronomical rates.

What if a guy shows up at her home? I assume the fallout would be different than at work, lack of knowledge of family she was foreign dating, her not letting them know she might be willing to move abroad, view of WM within her family?

It could cause issues in the early stages of a relationship. Babushka network and all that fallout.

[msmob]

What if a guy shows up at her home? I assume the fallout would be different than at work, lack of knowledge of family she was foreign dating, her not letting them know she might be willing to move abroad, view of WM within her family?

If you're in a good place - you'd know it and know a surprise visit - is normally appreciated...

SC is a little OCD about the apartment being tidy for my arrivals ...but the expression on her face is worth the 'telling off', later ..

'Surprising' someone you've never met .. NOT so wise .. 

If she works - she'd feel torn between being obligated to being a host and her job - it might even look like you had another lady in mind and she is plan B

[msmob]

Nah, mostly headaches. 

Whilst I'd agree that some guys in this venture must be horrific to have to deal with - folks will only continue to do this if there's money in it.

Unless you have a service like Ed does where he charges astronomical rates

Have you BEEN a client of our Ed's?  ..   .to validate such a statemnt ?

[alex330]

Have you BEEN a client of our Ed's?  ..   .to validate such a statemnt ?

I would never pay some random dude 20k to find me a wife. Thats a fact, not a statement.

[alex330]

Sure there are some wonderful women there but few and far between.

There are millions of wonderful Ukrainian women waiting in line for a solid Western man.

1. Men want young flesh with big boobs. Even though they are older and not in shape. Unrealistic.
2. The websites are geared towards making money, not producing marriages.
3. Women have been burned by men, so become jaded and take advantage of the next round over.
4. Most men searching overseas lack very basic qualities a good woman is looking for.
5. The majority of good women are not on dating sites.
6. Scammers and gold diggers leverage the dating sites for their purposes.

[msmob]

I would never pay some random dude 20k to find me a wife. Thats a fact, not a statement.

Did he actually quote you that figure ? Don't deflect ..

[alex330]

Did he actually quote you that figure ? Don't deflect ..

Deflect? LOL. I am pretty sure that is his price, no? I have seen several members mention it.

Even if half that number, why would you pay someone that much money?


edit - I think Ed also asks for airfare and expenses to fly over with you to Russia....

[msmob]

Deflect? LOL. I am pretty sure that is his price, no? I have seen several members mention it.

Even if half that number, why would you pay someone that much money?


edit - I think Ed also asks for airfare and expenses to fly over with you to Russia....

Ri-ight !

So you ARE 'quoting' gossip - rather than fact ...?

Ed and I have had our differences - re his exaggerated claims re ratios of men to ladies - but I knew his rates and you'd have to be using him 400 hours get to 20k

Naturally, if a client wants me somewhere - they pay for my expenses..at cost - not biz class

Can we try to post facts - not hearsay bollox ?

[alex330]

Ri-ight !
So you ARE 'quoting' gossip - rather than fact ...?
Ed and I have had our differences - re his exaggerated claims re ratios of men to ladies - but I knew his rates and you'd have to be using him 400 hours get to 20k
Naturally, if a client wants me somewhere - they pay for my expenses..at cost - not biz class
Can we try to post facts - not hearsay bollox ?

5k per trip from the horses mouth. in 2007. He has since raised his rates I am sure 





Many of us have spoken to guys in chat who were quoted anyways. 20k was the number I recall.

[alex330]

Ri-ight !
So you ARE 'quoting' gossip - rather than fact ...?
Ed and I have had our differences - re his exaggerated claims re ratios of men to ladies - but I knew his rates and you'd have to be using him 400 hours get to 20k
Can we try to post facts - not hearsay bollox ?

Ooooops....

[msmob]

5k per trip from the horses mouth. in 2007. He has since raised his rates I am sure 





Many of us have spoken to guys in chat who were quoted anyways. 20k was the number I recall.

So, that's 4 times less than your first post ..and his average started at 12K - so you thought you'd use the highest figure - Oooops indeed

His estimates for what guys who do this on their own probably equates with what he charges.

I'm with you .. rather do it my way .. but you have inadvertently 'proved' his services could make economic sense ?