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Author Topic: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread  (Read 21818 times)

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Offline WmGO

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Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« on: April 27, 2007, 09:11:24 AM »
I had typed out some things and tried to post it but just barely missed the thread cutoff. Not trying to reopen a can of worms, but here it is:

I have found that most FSU people have an excellent sense of humor. I think that it is one of the survival mechanisms that they have used for centuries to cope with difficult historical circumstances. I have also found them to be very good at sarcastic humor, but it is usually directed at life and circumstances as opposed to individuals (which due to their pride probably doesn't go over too well). I have also found that a lot them appreciate dark humor (they call it black humor).

Here is the bookend for the original thread:

Offline Lily

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2007, 09:39:24 AM »
I feel I can say something about directing sarcastic humor at individuals in Russia, at least from my observation.

Some Russians believe that sarcasm is a mean of disapprovement. Therefore, if people see that the others make fun of anything that is part of them, for instance, their natural features, clothes, behavior, that means people disapprove those things in them. If others disapprove, that means this is wrong.

Often the person believes that he/she is allright despite the sarcasm. In this case he did not pay attention to sarcastic remarks. That requires some guts and self-assurance.

In some cases the person believes he/she is not quite allright and the sarcastic funmakers are probably right. In this case the object of sarcasm could start thinking whether he/she is able to improve. If yes, then ok.

Things get worse when the person realizes that he has no powers to change the situation that caused sarcasm.
Da, da, Canada; Nyet, nyet, Soviet!

Offline WmGO

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2007, 10:27:52 AM »
Yes, sarcasm directed at individuals does not go down too well in FSU territory. Westerners have a bad habit of it but they have much thicker skins and usually don't take it personal. This is something for the Western travelor to be aware of. What may be acceptable humor in their country may not be in someone'e else's country. Humor is always a danger zone for misunderstanding when traveling abroad.

Offline Bruno

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2007, 10:31:24 AM »
Yes, sarcasm directed at individuals does not go down too well in FSU territory.

A few year ago,  when i was sarcasmtitc about myself, he have seem  to me that it was not a problem to FSU people  ;D ;D ;D

Offline ScottinCrimea

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2007, 11:39:13 AM »
I agree with the above.  Sarcasm directed at an individual doesn't go over well there.  Unfortunately I learned that the hard way. They can be very sarcastic about their government, life in general, groups of people in general, etc., though.  One important thing that I did learn early on is that you never speak to another and criticize their country or culture.  Only they have the right to do that.  One problem here is that we do criticize country and culture because we are not speaking to a specific individual.  If someone assumes we are speaking directly to them, then they might be offended, but if they realize that we are speaking more in the third person, they might understand that it is considered acceptable.  For example, if I overhear one Russian speaking with another Russian and putting down the US, it's not my place to speak up, but if the comments are directed at me, then I have an obligaton to either agree or disagree.

Offline WmGO

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2007, 11:46:57 AM »
Yes, self deprecating humor is always allowed! People everywhere seem to appreciate the humility in it.

Hey, noone is saying anything about my photo! If a babushka photo can get 6 pages how come a fat AW photo can't get a few? Maybe because it should have been posted in the "What's wrong with Americans" section?? ;D Or maybe it is too sad to talk about  ???
Yes, it is too sad  :'(  

Offline ScottinCrimea

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2007, 11:49:16 AM »
People tend to comment on the unusual.  Unfortunately there is nothing unusual or unexpected in your photo.  It just shows what has been stated in 1000 words with no dissent.

Offline Admin

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2007, 11:51:30 AM »
Yes, self deprecating humor is always allowed! People everywhere seem to appreciate the humility in it.

Hey, noone is saying anything about my photo! If a babushka photo can get 6 pages how come a fat AW photo can't get a few? Maybe because it should have been posted in the "What's wrong with Americans" section?? ;D Or maybe it is too sad to talk about  ???
Yes, it is too sad  :'(   

I'm sorry - was there a fat AW in the photo?

I was too busy looking at the LEFT side of the photo to notice.  ;)

- Dan

Offline BC

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2007, 11:56:15 AM »
Yes, sarcasm directed at individuals does not go down too well in FSU territory. Westerners have a bad habit of it but they have much thicker skins and usually don't take it personal. This is something for the Western travelor to be aware of. What may be acceptable humor in their country may not be in someone'e else's country. Humor is always a danger zone for misunderstanding when traveling abroad.

With sarcastic humor there is usually some truth involved.  My wife is quite direct with me and somehow also does not appreciate  the 'lighter route' we westerners often rely upon to 'veil' our messages.  It's either 'put up or shut up', an honest approach I've learned to like more and more as time goes by.


Offline Daveman

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2007, 11:59:25 AM »
Well, it's strange that the consensus in this thread seems to be that sarcasm directed at an individual is not proper in the FSU, but to say this in the other thread is considered wishy washy, or to attempt to understand someone's point of view, or to make an apology if someone is hurt is kissing ass.  Interesting to say the least.

here's another example of something that is interesting to me...

I posted a question concerning caring for the elderly Russian parents/grandparents in another area.  It received two good responses, one from someone not yet married, and another from another recently engaged.  But, none from the married guys who certainly have had to deal with this kind of a situation (and one which seems to pose a a valid concern in the eyes of a RW moving here).

here's the link:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=4426.0

But wait, there no real controversy, no side to choose, no sh!t to sling.  There is only the possibility for good discussion and actually sharing information.  So of course, it isn't worthy of many replies...

But find something which could have the slightest bit of fodder with divisive and argumentative potential and there are a thousand posts devoted to the topic.


Dave
The duty of a true patriot is to protect his country from its government. -- Thomas Paine

Offline ScottinCrimea

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #10 on: April 27, 2007, 12:05:05 PM »
Dave, the issue on the other thread wasn't so much that the post in question had offended some people, the issue was with teir taking it to the next level, refusing to accept an apology and demanding that all future posts conform to their ideas.  I think where you were considered wishy washy was when you appeared accepting of this type of behaviour when what they really needed was a good spanking or a time out in the corner.

Offline jb

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #11 on: April 27, 2007, 12:06:49 PM »
Dave,

Quote
I posted a question concerning caring for the elderly Russian parents/grandparents in another area.

If you had bothered to read the FAQ section; http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?pid=10 you would have seen this subject has been addressed.

Offline WmGO

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #12 on: April 27, 2007, 12:35:46 PM »
Daveman, so what you are saying is that IT IS too sad to discuss  ;D :'(

Offline Daveman

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #13 on: April 27, 2007, 01:06:48 PM »
Daveman, so what you are saying is that IT IS too sad to discuss  ;D :'(

Heh, I think I'm just annoyed at my anonymous fan club...  let's see what happens  ;D
The duty of a true patriot is to protect his country from its government. -- Thomas Paine

Offline KenC

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2007, 04:36:13 PM »
Well, it's strange that the consensus in this thread seems to be that sarcasm directed at an individual is not proper in the FSU, but to say this in the other thread is considered wishy washy, or to attempt to understand someone's point of view, or to make an apology if someone is hurt is kissing ass.  Interesting to say the least.

here's another example of something that is interesting to me...

I posted a question concerning caring for the elderly Russian parents/grandparents in another area.  It received two good responses, one from someone not yet married, and another from another recently engaged.  But, none from the married guys who certainly have had to deal with this kind of a situation (and one which seems to pose a a valid concern in the eyes of a RW moving here).

here's the link:
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=4426.0

But wait, there no real controversy, no side to choose, no sh!t to sling.  There is only the possibility for good discussion and actually sharing information.  So of course, it isn't worthy of many replies...

But find something which could have the slightest bit of fodder with divisive and argumentative potential and there are a thousand posts devoted to the topic.


Dave
Dave,
Considering that I was the one that called you "wishy washy" I have to laugh at your taking things out of context here.  The label "W/W" was awarded to you because of your suck up post to Elen and had nothing to do with the original post made by Gator (or whether it was appropriate or not).  Point being that RW prefer men that can make a decision and stick to it.  Your suck up post only shows your ability to be manipulated by women, in this case Elen.  God help you with your quest for a RW because IMO, you're going to need it.
KenC
("Grow a set" comes to mind)
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Daveman

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2007, 07:24:17 PM »
Nevermind... not worth the hassle



« Last Edit: April 28, 2007, 02:06:47 AM by Daveman »
The duty of a true patriot is to protect his country from its government. -- Thomas Paine

Offline KenC

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2007, 08:12:39 PM »
Dave,
I still don't think you get it.  You wrote:
Quote
trying to understand why a joke from my culture could possibly be offensive to another culture equals a lack of a set?  Or apologizing for something which could have been hurtful to someone?
Why would you apologise for a post by Gator, if not to "suck up" and prove yourself to be in touch with Elen's feminine side?  Sorry, but like jb, I ran the photo posted by Gator past my wife and she laughed her butt off!  Too f'en bad if Elen or anyone else took offense to it, it was funny. 
The AD girls have redirected this forum in many ways and they are not good ways.  When we become so self conscious that we are afraid to admit that we packed condoms for our trip to Russia, something is very wrong.  We tip toe around the subject of sex because we are afraid that we will be taken to task by AD or heaven forbid, they start a post about us on the website.  This has gotten too far out of hand and they now have us turning on ourselves.  Look at the "welcome" Pike got from us as an example.  Now maybe Pike is a sex tourist, but maybe he is not too.  We have taken the offensive on behalf of AD and now they don't even have to say a word because gutless guys like you sing their song without them even leading the verse.  Maybe you are an honorary AD member?
KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Lily

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2007, 08:23:42 PM »
Hey, noone is saying anything about my photo! If a babushka photo can get 6 pages how come a fat AW photo can't get a few? 

The thread is about perception of sarcasm in Russia, if I correctly understand your question WmGO? Should not we pick up a more suitable topic name?

The babushka photo get lots of replies because people felt offended and became defensive. This resilted in a very active participation. :(

Well, if there would be some AW here on forum, probably they 'd start posting rather actively  :), as the photo apparently criticize their obesity resulting from their eating habits.

WmGO and others, could you please tell what reaction would you expect from people seeing this picture?
Da, da, Canada; Nyet, nyet, Soviet!

Offline KenC

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2007, 08:27:57 PM »

WmGO and others, could you please tell what reaction would you expect from people seeing this picture?


Lilly,
Lena and I laughed our butts off.  I have seen this photo before and loved it then too.
KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Lily

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2007, 08:45:19 PM »
KenC,

I watched the picture long enough and am lost for ideas where I could laugh..
Can someone explain?

I see two women with illustration of their meals, both in similar body positions. The observers can see a part of slim body of the European woman, whereas the same position reveals a part of the ugly body of the American. I can understand that her obesity comes from consuming hamburgers as illustrated.

On a general note, the picture looks interesting because of similar arrangement of things and bodies.

What did I miss?
Da, da, Canada; Nyet, nyet, Soviet!

Offline KenC

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2007, 08:56:54 PM »
KenC,

I watched the picture long enough and am lost for ideas where I could laugh..
Can someone explain?

I see two women with illustration of their meals, both in similar body positions. The observers can see a part of slim body of the European woman, whereas the same position reveals a part of the ugly body of the American. I can understand that her obesity comes from consuming hamburgers as illustrated.

On a general note, the picture looks interesting because of similar arrangement of things and bodies.

What did I miss?
Lilly,
The humor comes from the comparison between the two women and their similarities.  I remember this posted as a joke with it being said, "and they wonder why we go to Russia for a woman?"  Here in lies the difference between Russian and American humor:  we can laugh at ourselves!  Of course I don't think too many AW would find the humor in this! ;D
KenC
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline I/O

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2007, 09:30:27 PM »
KenC and Lily:  I actually think that many western women "Would" see the humour in that photo.  Certainly as an example, I explained the photo to my old mum last night over a coffee and she just rolled her eyes and said, "yep, it is probably pretty accurate. There's a message there for all of us".

I gotta say all this super-sensitivity that has appeared here recently is quite bizzare.  There is a certain element who claim to represent all Russian women and frankly IMO they don't, in fact approximately 3 I have noticed post from time to time here on this board are IMO an absolute disgrace to their "Country women". 

All this "Oh our culture doesn't allow for that type of humour" is the biggest load of BS I have heard in a long time.  Serious BS...!!!  Aussies have the darkest, p!ss pulling sense of humour of almost anyone, we will pull ourselves and others down at the drop of a hat and I have Never, NEVER had a problem with this with ANY Russian or other women who is worth 2 cents or more.

When my fiance' was first here and if she made something of a mistake, she would roll her eyes and say to me, "Oh just speak them she the primative Russian girl" and laugh.  That's the type of Russians I chose to mix with and I happen to have found them to be the vast majority. 

Balls and T!ts seem to be the international symbols (Oh I do apologise to the sensitive dearies for my sarchasim ::)) for either manhood or womanhood and I would suggest that EVERYONE  "Grows a set"....!!! :cluebat: :cluebat:

I/O

Offline Daveman

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2007, 09:32:39 PM »
Dave,
I still don't think you get it.

It's alright Ken.  I don't take any of this stuff personally.
best wishes.

Dave
The duty of a true patriot is to protect his country from its government. -- Thomas Paine

Offline KenC

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2007, 09:52:30 PM »
On Russians and humor,
Lena and I just recalled how her parents were a little bored with American TV on a visit here a few years ago, so I rented "Jackass the Movie."  English or not, they laughed so hard they had tears in their eyes!!!  Slapstick humor is something most Russians can appreciate.
KenC
« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 10:03:17 PM by KenC »
You are a den of vipers and thieves-Andrew Jackson on banks
Banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies-Thomas Jefferson

Offline Wild Orchid*

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Re: Bookend for the IDing these Ladies thread
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2007, 10:02:55 PM »
AM talk too often about fat AW and how sad it is.  Does obesity affects only females of your country?

 

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