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Author Topic: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016  (Read 17781 times)

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Offline Blighty

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2018, 03:21:17 AM »
So you tell me no Ukrainian hasn't demanded money from a foreigner and never had the foreigner slap them one.

Are you trying to get arrested and deported from Ukraine? It is not like the UK, where you take their number, accuse them of bullying, and make a formal complaint.

My wife is very wary of the Ukrainian authorities (e.g., police) and thinks it is a hangover from the USSR. She gets shocked by my approach to the authorities, and accepts that it is because I grew up in the English-speaking Free World. You just have to be careful in Ukraine, as it is very different from countries such as Poland where society is more open and western  European in attitude.

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2018, 03:29:27 AM »
Are you trying to get arrested and deported from Ukraine? It is not like the UK, where you take their number, accuse them of bullying, and make a formal complaint.

I know instead you kick their ass for trying it on.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Blighty

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2018, 05:17:45 AM »
I know instead you kick their ass for trying it on.

Another Americanism from TC. True Brits say 'arse' not 'ass'.

Also, we do not normally attack the Plods in this country unless you are a member of the criminal fraternity.


Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2018, 05:37:12 AM »
Another Americanism from TC. True Brits say 'arse' not 'ass'.

Also, we do not normally attack the Plods in this country unless you are a member of the criminal fraternity.

Plods in this country tend not to be corrupt and if any are there are channels to report them which will be taken seriously. The few rare cases there have been the dodgy ones have always been outed. Besides the plods on the Ukraine are not real plods like said just crooks in fancy dress. My guess is unlike British plods they will have limited defence training, if any.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #54 on: May 13, 2018, 06:33:11 AM »
Besides the plods on the Ukraine are not real plods like said just crooks in fancy dress. My guess is unlike British plods they will have limited defence training, if any.

Your guess would be wrong, as usual.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Online krimster2

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #55 on: May 13, 2018, 06:51:37 AM »
Trench
you had better exercise self control in Ukraine at all times and all places
be aware of your surroundings especially the people

I personally know of two Americans who antagonized locals and paid the price
one was paralyzed from the neck down after being thrown down a flight of concrete stairs and I have no idea how he left Crimea and what became of him, another was merely hospitalized with his injuries

a third American I know of who was beaten in Ukraine, used to post on this board, and I called him out for lying about it

these are just the ones I personally know of
and forgive me but I only kept track of the American ones...

confrontations can be dangerous in Ukraine, after I lived there a few months I began to carry a knife

I am confident of my fighting ability having been trained by the best African-American ghetto kids America has to offer, this training was involuntary however, and occurred during my youth when I would visit relatives who lived in Brooklyn, NYC where the local African-American kids played a game called “let’s kick whitey’s ass”, can you guess who received the honor to play “whitey” in this game?  yesss, it was me!

so I’m not afraid to “mix it up” when need be
but to risk possible injury, death, or imprisonment over a bribe
is NOT WORTH IT TO ME
not to mention whatever business I had before this organization would now be terminated
this is why you pay
and add this person to your network and go on about your day

Offline BdHvA

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #56 on: May 13, 2018, 07:29:42 AM »
. . . Besides the plods on the Ukraine are not real plods like said just crooks in fancy dress. My guess is unlike British plods they will have limited defence training, if any.

Why not try this out and get back to RWD with the results on your interactions?
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

Offline BillyB

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2018, 07:32:20 AM »
If people stood up for themselves these crooks would soon realise it's not worth their effort. It's because it's so easy that it happens.


People have stood up for themselves and got their asses kicked. You don't change an entire culture of corruption by standing up to low level cops in an attempt to reprogram them. You have a revolution and clean government out at the top. Ukraine had that but they didn't clean out enough politicians. Since the ousting of Yanukovych, old cops got fired and new cops got Western Style training. Since then, everybody I talked to in Ukraine said they trust the cops more and got harassed less.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Online krimster2

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #58 on: May 13, 2018, 08:12:41 AM »
remember when yushenko did this in early 2005 when he got rid of DAI as his "reform"
didn't change anything
corruption is just part of the culture
it's a feature and not a bug
none of the feeble attempts made by various Ukrainian leaders (strictly for "show")
to tackle corruption ever produced any measurable results
especially since they themselves were up to their eyeballs in it

I am amazed at the resiliency of the Ukrainian people
their determination to go on day by day
no matter their deteriorating living conditions

even if Putin doesn't stage a full military invasion and "finish off" Ukraine
if you look at the continually dropping economic indicators
within 10 years the UAH will be around 100/dollar
and the average Ukrainian will need to work all year to save enough money for a low end smartphone

now ask these people to sacrifice their lives for their country that has left them in poverty
while meanwhile the "other side" will promise them instant prosperity
it's not surprising to me that when Russia invaded Crimea
half of the soldiers in the Ukrainian military instead of standing up and fighting for their country
switched sides and joined the Russian military for higher pay!!
this is the reality


 

Online krimster2

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #59 on: May 13, 2018, 09:55:48 AM »
and when you consider that two of Ukraine’s most important economic zones; Crimea and Donbass are now under Russian control and the growing liklihood of a Russian invasion that will connect Donbass to Crimea to make a land bridge...

and of course it may go even further than that, to the Dnipro maybe, to Odessa maybe...
and meanwhile in Transnistria...

even without that, Ukraine is in a condition of permanent economic decline, in which each year is worse than the previous one...

no great savior on the horizon, the ship is sinking...

soon there will just be the silence of the waves and the cries of the gulls...

Offline alex330

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #60 on: May 13, 2018, 10:50:47 AM »
Your guess would be wrong, as usual.

Nah, pretty sure Trench is correct. Most street cops in Ukraine have very little training. If you know how to fight you could take one or two of them probably.
My wife's ex was a cop, and she knew other officers and the old police chief in Odesa.

Usually not a smart idea to fight cops in foreign countries but no need to bend over for them. Puff up and most will move on to the next tourist.

Nobody here must have ever seen an angry Ukrainian woman berate an officer. They don't put up with that shit.

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #61 on: May 13, 2018, 10:55:44 AM »
 :D
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline alex330

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #62 on: May 13, 2018, 11:00:56 AM »

The issue is moreso random guys wandering around like Krimster notes a few posts up. Georgians, immigrants, and packs of guys.
Like anywhere the wrong place at the wrong time can be very dangerous.


But I feel safer in Ukraine than almost any other place I have visited. Certainly nothing close to Latin America or 10 blocks from my house here in Florida.

Offline alex330

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #63 on: May 13, 2018, 11:10:35 AM »
and of course it may go even further than that, to the Dnipro maybe, to Odessa maybe...
and meanwhile in Transnistria...


When I was there last year the US military was in Odesa. And a new base with US ships between there and Mariupol.
But I suppose a back door deal could be made for that slice of territory.


http://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/08/14/ukraine-hosts-us-military-permanently-stationed-on-its-soil.html

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #64 on: May 13, 2018, 11:46:16 AM »
Nah, pretty sure Trench is correct. Most street cops in Ukraine have very little training. If you know how to fight you could take one or two of them probably.
My wife's ex was a cop, and she knew other officers and the old police chief in Odesa.

Usually not a smart idea to fight cops in foreign countries but no need to bend over for them. Puff up and most will move on to the next tourist.

Nobody here must have ever seen an angry Ukrainian woman berate an officer. They don't put up with that shit.

I had a friend in Ukraine whose uncle was the local colonel. He retired in 2013. In Kyiv, they did get training, similar to in the West. Canadian police went to train them after the collapse.

I’m not as safe in Kyiv as I am in my city.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 11:48:24 AM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline alex330

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2018, 12:15:57 PM »
Think it was mostly procedures, sensitivity training, etc. Similar to what the US provided recently.

http://hpou.org/ukraine-police-learning-westernized-police-traditions/

Ukraine does not have the resources to send the guys to practice ranges, advanced take down training, and so on. Even the US military does not provide that to our troops and we have a massive budget. Not saying there isn't a hulking Ukrainian cop that can issue a beat down, I am sure there are, but not the norm. Most guys over there are lightweights.

Online krimster2

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2018, 12:19:34 PM »
"When I was there last year the US military was in Odesa. And a new base with US ships between there and Mariupol. "

believe it or not, almost exactly 100 years ago, we had the same situation, but no deal was made...

google "USS Whipple" a US Navy ship active in the Black Sea at the end of the Russian Revolution

Online krimster2

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2018, 12:29:25 PM »
"Most guys over there are lightweights."


no, they are NOT lightweights, depending on the age group, many will be ex-military
do you have any idea what a shit storm Russian military training is
let's see you go through it, it's likely the guy you're squaring up against is a veteran of 20-30 street fights (how many for you?)
and would love to rip a rich foreigner like you a "new one"
and he won't be alone, he'll have his "druzya"
like I say "brat" you better be packing a nice shiny "nosh"
because you wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell against these guys!



Offline alex330

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #68 on: May 13, 2018, 12:37:25 PM »
no, they are NOT lightweights, depending on the age group, many will be ex-military
do you have any idea what a shit storm Russian military training is
let's see you go through it, it's likely the guy you're squaring up against is a veteran of 20-30 street fights (how many for you?)
and would love to rip a rich foreigner like you a "new one"
and he won't be alone, he'll have his "druzya"
like I say "brat" you better be packing a nice shiny "nosh"
because you wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hell against these guys!


Most I have seen are lightweights. 160 pounds versus me at 220. I have ex Ukrainian military buddies here in Miami. Come meet Sergei with me at Tatyanas nightclub. We go talk story over vodka all the time. They cant even feed those guys. I would wreck most of them.

Online krimster2

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #69 on: May 13, 2018, 12:57:37 PM »
I'm 6'3" 220
I know the little "feral Russians" you're talkin about
not THOSE guys
no, bigger guys
ex military
I knew one who became a contractor in Iraq, much bigger guy than me and taught martial arts as well
there's a LOT of alpha males in Ukraine
keep your eye on them
and DRUNKS, especially DRUNKS

but even the little feral Russian guys have likely been in quite a few fights and comport themselves much better than their American counter-part, and if you had 3-4 of them and they were all drunk as hell...
you might not do as well as you think...

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #70 on: May 13, 2018, 12:58:59 PM »
My FIL was less than 160 lbs, but was a boxer and in his youth, could fell men over 200 lbs. 

I asked the better half, and he says police training is geared to their units.  Some get full military style training.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #71 on: May 13, 2018, 01:02:53 PM »
Think it was mostly procedures, sensitivity training, etc. Similar to what the US provided recently.

http://hpou.org/ukraine-police-learning-westernized-police-traditions/

Ukraine does not have the resources to send the guys to practice ranges, advanced take down training, and so on. Even the US military does not provide that to our troops and we have a massive budget. Not saying there isn't a hulking Ukrainian cop that can issue a beat down, I am sure there are, but not the norm. Most guys over there are lightweights.


No, the RCMP has sent officers to Ukraine to train police in all areas, and some Ukrainians have trained at their headquarters in Regina.


Have a look at Berkut forces.  Those are paramilitary forces. 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline alex330

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #72 on: May 13, 2018, 01:04:13 PM »
I know the little "feral Russians" you're talkin about
not THOSE guys
no, bigger guys
ex military

Of course, I already mentioned this. My buddy Sergei is one of them. Scars from hockey all over his face. You don't square up against him.

Not saying there isn't a hulking Ukrainian cop that can issue a beat down, I am sure there are, but not the norm.

and DRUNKS, especially DRUNKS
but even the little feral Russian guys have likely been in quite a few fights and comport themselves much better than their American counter-part, and if you had 3-4 of them and they were all drunk as hell...

The groups of drunks are the most dangerous I think. That is where you want to be careful walking alone at night.

Offline Boethius

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #73 on: May 13, 2018, 01:04:50 PM »
Also, even if the police are "lightweight", refuse them once and they will come back in greater numbers. 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline alex330

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Re: Ukraine Travel Warning Dec. 14 2016
« Reply #74 on: May 13, 2018, 01:06:01 PM »
Have a look at Berkut forces.  Those are paramilitary forces.

Yes, very small numbers Boe. Like a SWAT team here. They don't stand on the street corners to shakedown tourists.



 

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