The Struggle For Ukraine

[2tallbill]

Ukraine-Russia war: US, West delay in delivering weapons gives Putin edge
in Donbas region
"It seems the right weapons are just not getting there in time, and turning what
could have been a clear victory for Ukraine into a Russian advantage - a fumble
on the 10-yard line by the West," the official said.

"Germany, which initially delayed the delivery of lethal aid to Ukraine until two months into the invasion, has lagged significantly behind Ukraine’s other allies in delivering any of its aid: Data from German think tank The Kiel Institute indicates Germany lags behind most allies, both in terms of the amount of aid promised and the amount actually delivered – amounting to roughly 35% of its total commitment. "

That indecision and divisiveness in target and commitment is something that Russia will look to exploit as it presses its advantage to secure the Donbas region while the Ukrainians fight with depleting resources and inferior weapons.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-russia-war-delay-weapons-putin-donbas

[2tallbill]

2tall,

No, I've worked in the logistics field for over 30 years.  Biden did not even come to mind when replying to your posts.

That should have come to your mind first.

The US military has the most advanced logistical operations in the world.
Only under Team Biden have they become incompetent.

[2tallbill]

Zelenskyy says arms urgently needed as Russian supply dwindles
"We keep telling our partners that Ukraine needs modern anti-missile weapons.
Our country does not have [them] at a sufficient level yet, but it is our country
in Europe that needs such weapons most right now," he said.
"Delay with its provision cannot be justified."
http://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-zelenskyy-arms-needed-russian-supply-nato-aid

[krimster2]

"http://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-zelenskyy-arms-needed-russian-supply-nato-aid"

LOL!!! I'd recommend getting your informatze straight from Russia Today or Sputnick, before it gets filtered by Fox News (LOL)

[2tallbill]

"http://www.foxnews.com/world/ukraine-zelenskyy-arms-needed-russian-supply-nato-aid"

LOL!!! I'd recommend getting your informatze straight from Russia Today or Sputnick, before it gets filtered by Fox News (LOL)

I have posted news links from a wide variety of sources.

[BC]

That should have come to your mind first.

Why should Biden come to mind first?  I'm sure he has the best military advisors available.

The US military has the most advanced logistical operations in the world.
Only under Team Biden have they become incompetent.

Yes, they are good, but in this case only up to the UA border and not one inch further.  Any equipment handed over has another treacherous 600-1000 or more Km to go.

As far as I can see, nothing has changed at US TransCom since Biden took office.

[Chelseaboy]

I'm not sure if the orcs are running out of Pilots or not,but have you all seen the state of their captured fighter pilots ?


They're all over fifty and overweight.


Tom Cruise they ain't.


I know Putler is now recruiting up to 65 years old for his orc military,he's getting so desperate..but seriously grandad fighter pilots ?

[2tallbill]

Why should Biden come to mind first?  I'm sure he has the best military advisors available.

He has bungled 100% of every foreign policy decision in his life.
If he has competent military advisors he ignores them, proof
is the Afghanistan debacle.

[2tallbill]

I saw this at the other place first.

When The Lies Come Home
Kiev’s war with Moscow is lost. Ukrainian forces are being bled white. Trained replacements do not exist in sufficient numbers to influence the battle, and the situation grows more desperate by the hour. No amount of U.S. and allied military aid or assistance short of direct military intervention by U.S. and NATO ground forces can change this harsh reality.

The problem today is not ceding territory and population to Moscow in Eastern Ukraine that Moscow already controls. The future of the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions along with the Donbas is decided. Moscow is also likely to secure Kharkov and Odessa, two cities that are historically Russian and Russian-speaking, as well as the territory that adjoins them. These operations will extend the conflict through the summer. The problem now is how to stop the fighting.

Whether the fighting stops in the early fall will depend on two key factors.

The first involves the leadership in Kiev. Will the Zelensky government consent
to the Biden program for perpetual conflict with Russia?

If the Biden administration has its way, Kiev will continue to operate as a base
for the buildup of new forces poised to threaten Moscow. In practice, this means
Kiev must commit national suicide by exposing the Ukrainian heartland west of
the Dnieper River to massive, devastating strikes by Russia’s long-range missile
and rocket forces.

http://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/when-lies-come-home

[2tallbill]

What the West Has Given Is Not Enough to Win, Ukraine Says
RATISLAVA, Slovakia – The amounts and types of weapons the United
States and other NATO members are sending to Ukraine are not enough
to eject Russian armed forces and win the war, Ukraine’s defense minister
said.

“We need more,” Oleksii Reznikov said Friday, to mount a “sufficient counterattack and kick them outside of our country to liberate all occupied territory.”

Reznikov’s grim assessment comes just three days after President Joe Biden
announced a new $700 million arms package for Ukraine that includes
long-requested High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems, or HIMARS,
although with only limited-range rockets and a promise from Kyiv
to not strike targets inside of Russia.

His call for more advanced Western arms was echoed this week at a key
international security conference by several Central and Eastern European
leaders who rejected hopes for a near-term end to the war.

Reznikov said recent donations of artillery, radar, and electronic warfare gear
are helping Ukraine to defend its territory west of the Donbas region, slowing
Russia’s advances. But they are not enough to expel Russian forces or to deter
future strikes on Europe.

http://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022/06/what-west-has-given-not-enough-win-ukraine-says/367740/


Does the West Want Ukraine to Win or Not?
The last time we heard U.S. officials use that word was to describe the war in Afghanistan. The United States didn’t win that war, and it looks like Ukraine
isn’t going to win this one—at least, not with the weapons the world is
allowing them to have.

It is true that Ukraine has stymied Russia’s attacks from the north, that shelling
has ceased in Kharkiv for the first time since the war began, and that even the consolidated effort to seize the Donbas is proceeding slowly. But take those
little victories with caution: Russia still has the ability to send in many more
waves of troops and ground power, as long as the Kremlin and the generals
desire. 

Ukrainians are fighting to win, but it’s clear the world will give them only
enough weapons to hold the line—a line largely dictated by the Kremlin’s
will—and hope for a negotiated peace with accused war criminal Vladimir
Putin. If the United States and its allies want a total victory for Ukraine,
they will have to give much more. Otherwise it increasingly looks like
Ukraine will have to sacrifice the Donbas region. And if that’s the case,
why keep fighting at all?

http://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2022/05/does-west-want-ukraine-win-or-not/366820/

[Boethius]

I saw this at the other place first.

When The Lies Come Home
Kiev’s war with Moscow is lost. Ukrainian forces are being bled white. Trained replacements do not exist in sufficient numbers to influence the battle, and the situation grows more desperate by the hour. No amount of U.S. and allied military aid or assistance short of direct military intervention by U.S. and NATO ground forces can change this harsh reality.

The problem today is not ceding territory and population to Moscow in Eastern Ukraine that Moscow already controls. The future of the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions along with the Donbas is decided. Moscow is also likely to secure Kharkov and Odessa, two cities that are historically Russian and Russian-speaking, as well as the territory that adjoins them. These operations will extend the conflict through the summer. The problem now is how to stop the fighting.

Whether the fighting stops in the early fall will depend on two key factors.

The first involves the leadership in Kiev. Will the Zelensky government consent
to the Biden program for perpetual conflict with Russia?

If the Biden administration has its way, Kiev will continue to operate as a base
for the buildup of new forces poised to threaten Moscow. In practice, this means
Kiev must commit national suicide by exposing the Ukrainian heartland west of
the Dnieper River to massive, devastating strikes by Russia’s long-range missile
and rocket forces.

http://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/when-lies-come-home

Zerohedge is a known for its pro Russian perspectives.

[krimster2]

At the start of the Biden administration, there were 2,500 US soldiers in Afghanistan
Trump is the one who signed the agreement to withdraw, and made minimum efforts towards Afghan security  while in office
such a small number of American troops were vulnerable to a Taliban offensive which happened a little over 3 months after Biden took office
during the transistion period of November to Jan, Trump blocked Biden from receiving ANY briefings, depriving his team of info

but sure go ahead and blame Biden, cuz Fox News said so

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_United_States_troops_from_Afghanistan_(2020%E2%80%932021)

[Boethius]

They easily could have been in Kyiv.  They were not beaten, they made a tactical decision to withdraw.

They made a decison when they could not capture the capital.

They could have also reduced Kyiv to ruins like Mariupol.

Kyiv is not Mariupol.  It contains the third most important monastary in Russian Orthodoxy.  It contains the most ancient Russian Orthodox cathedral in the world.  Sure, Russia could level Kyiv and its three million residents, but what would Russia achieve with that?  Are ill educated Buryats or Chechens going to move there and rebuild Kyiv into a great Russian city?

I believe they deliberately wanted to save Kyiv and they want to save Odesa so that those two would be intact as the capitals of two of the regions that Russia recently displayed in their 'new' map of the future Ukraine.

Yes, however, they miscalculated in assuming the residents of those two cities want them there.  They do not.

But if Ukraine leaders and the west keeps crowing about how Russia was beaten and forced to withdraw from outside of Kyiv . . . Russia might just come back and use long range artillery to destroy Kyiv out of spite, despite their desire to keep Kyiv intact.

What would they achieve with such a tactic?  They would be a pariah state for at least a generation.

[ML]

They would be a pariah state for at least a generation.

I presume (and hope) this is already the case.

But the Russian people simply do not care about such designations.

[krimster2]

this is how you make the "iron curtain" once again, Homo Sovieticus 2.0
we're just at the beginning of what's coming down the road folks
just the beginning...
it's why I took the exit

[Chelseaboy]

I saw this at the other place first.

When The Lies Come Home
Kiev’s war with Moscow is lost. Ukrainian forces are being bled white. Trained replacements do not exist in sufficient numbers to influence the battle, and the situation grows more desperate by the hour. No amount of U.S. and allied military aid or assistance short of direct military intervention by U.S. and NATO ground forces can change this harsh reality.

The problem today is not ceding territory and population to Moscow in Eastern Ukraine that Moscow already controls. The future of the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions along with the Donbas is decided. Moscow is also likely to secure Kharkov and Odessa, two cities that are historically Russian and Russian-speaking, as well as the territory that adjoins them. These operations will extend the conflict through the summer. The problem now is how to stop the fighting.

Whether the fighting stops in the early fall will depend on two key factors.

The first involves the leadership in Kiev. Will the Zelensky government consent
to the Biden program for perpetual conflict with Russia?

If the Biden administration has its way, Kiev will continue to operate as a base
for the buildup of new forces poised to threaten Moscow. In practice, this means
Kiev must commit national suicide by exposing the Ukrainian heartland west of
the Dnieper River to massive, devastating strikes by Russia’s long-range missile
and rocket forces.

http://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/when-lies-come-home

Bill,


     Why on Earth are you posting on here pro-Russian propaganda  links from the other place which is infested with unintelligent Putler/Russian fanboys who are gullible enough to believe such garbage ?


If Ukraine has run out of weapons they somehow managed to hit Snake Island again today and also hit an oil rig off Crimea which originally belonged to Ukraine according to Russian sources.


As for Kherson the Ukraine Deputy PM today advised the residents of Kherson to evacuate the city ahead of the coming Ukraine counter-offensive.


You didn't know this ?


Then i suggest you catch up on the real news instead of reading the tripe in that pro-Russian place.


You did realize the Ukrainian troops are now only 10 km from the city having smashed through the first line of the orcs defenses ?


The orcs are now desperately forming second and third lines of defense to try and save themselves,which they may possibly succeed in doing because as you know war is unpredictable.


Even Igor Girkin felt compelled to post a video of Russian troops surrendering en-masse in the Luhansk region...they were in a very bad way too,with their comrades dead bodies lying around.


So..who's bleeding white now ?



I did say i wouldn't post my info on here anymore,but the garbage link you posted on here needs to be put in it's place.


When the lies come home indeed.

[2tallbill]

At the start of the Biden administration, there were 2,500 US soldiers in Afghanistan
Trump is the one who signed the agreement to withdraw, and made minimum efforts towards Afghan security  while in office
such a small number of American troops were vulnerable to a Taliban offensive which happened a little over 3 months after Biden took office
during the transistion period of November to Jan, Trump blocked Biden from receiving ANY briefings, depriving his team of info

but sure go ahead and blame Biden, cuz Fox News said so

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_United_States_troops_from_Afghanistan_(2020%E2%80%932021)

Sure go ahead and excuse Biden because the Washington Post told you to.

Biden f#cked up leaving Afghanistan. He left Americans behind and allies were
killed. He should have removed the Americans and their families first and the
military last. The New York Times and Team Biden said "it was either that or spend
another 30 years in Afghanistan."

That is a false dilemma fallacy, I learned as a school boy reading Toulmin's model
of argumentation. Very little of my information comes from Fox News. They aren't
even part of my cable package.

Udachi!

Bill

[2tallbill]

Bill,
     Why on Earth are you posting on here pro-Russian propaganda  links from the other place which is infested with unintelligent Putler/Russian fanboys who are gullible enough to believe such garbage ?

If Ukraine has run out of weapons they somehow managed to hit Snake Island again today and also hit an oil rig off Crimea which originally belonged to Ukraine according to Russian sources.


As for Kherson the Ukraine Deputy PM today advised the residents of Kherson to evacuate the city ahead of the coming Ukraine counter-offensive.


You didn't know this ?


Then i suggest you catch up on the real news instead of reading the tripe in that pro-Russian place.


You did realize the Ukrainian troops are now only 10 km from the city having smashed through the first line of the orcs defenses ?

When the lies come home indeed.

I didn't get this link from the usual cabal. It was from a guy who talks
more about red pills/white knights and has the best nicknames for
commies on the entire internet.

[Chelseaboy]

I didn't get this link from the usual cabal. It was from a guy who talks
more about red pills/white knights and has the best nicknames for
commies on the entire internet.

Ahhhh i know who you mean,and yeah he's ok 

[Boethius]

Article about the workers at the nuclear power plant in Zaporizhia, now in Russian control.

http://archive.ph/kCimk

[Trenchcoat]

I see Ukrainian Flags everywhere as i drive around in my town.

Yeah, I see so many Ukrainian flags when driving around its feels literally like I'm living in Ukraine lol.

[Trenchcoat]

I didn't get this link from the usual cabal. It was from a guy who talks
more about red pills/white knights and has the best nicknames for
commies on the entire internet.

I too am dubious about Ukraine's situation, they don't tend to put out official figures for troop losses much if at all. Russia we tend to get the troop loss figures one way or another from various sources and I think jointly a pretty clear figure of troop losses gets validated enough, currently around 33,000 Russian troop losses as I understand it, but even this may be higher possibly. Ukraine I think has potentially lost a lot as well but they keep quiet to maintain morale. There's no telling if the losses are bear as much or more as the war takes its toll. My impression is that Ukraine's forces could be suffering somewhat at the moment.

I think Ukraine did well around Kyiv and Kharkiv but particularly around Kyiv. Russia's problem was there that their flanks were not protected and Ukraines forces could ambush them around the sides. The problem of being strung out along a long road made the situation even more difficult for Russia. So Russia getting it's artillery up in sufficient quantity was a major problem I think. Then add to that all the rivers around Kyiv made Kyiv strategically difficult to break into. Russia's forces never did get to completely encircle the city.

I think Russia's strategy at the moment is get everything they've got left in terms of conventional military and continue to try to overwhelm Ukraine in the Donbas and hope they can push through and break Ukraine before too much new modern weaponry arrives. I think Boris pledging to train Ukrainian forces likely supports the post you made that Ukraine is running out of trained troops. That said I think the same is true on the Russian side since they are trying to pull anything from anywhere so I reckon there probably more in dire straits as they've only got so much longer and then they run out of weapons, troops and momentum. It looks like Russia is relying on its heavy artillery to do a lot of the work but that is likely only to last so long before western armaments take it out or they run out of munitions.

Overall I would say Ukraine is likely to be able to hold on so long as they don't suddenly break but I think Russia is on its last roll of the dice so far as conventional attack goes and its getting down to using more and more outdated gear and older and less well trained recruits. For Ukraine I think it's just a case of hold on a bit longer before Russia exhausts itself then it's only a matter of time before they push Russia back.

[BC]

Given the chance, Russia will occupy Donbas, declare a win, entrench and pass the time rearming to try again and again to expand until something breaks, either the will of UA or the will of the Russian people.  Armed by the west, UA can keep up the pressure and take back what they can, but it will be a costly, prolonged war in human terms.

Politically speaking, at this point, Russia has very little, if anything to lose, thus any attempts to negotiate are likely doomed to failure.

[Chelseaboy]

German Panzerhaubitze 2000 155 mm Howitzers have finally arrived in Ukraine.


12 of them,including some from the Netherlands.


This news comes from Ukrainian Government official Oleksii Reznikov.


Good timing actually because Ukraine has just had two Western supplied  M777 155mm towed Howitzers destroyed by an orc air-strike whilst operating 12km from the front line and targeting orc logistics behind the front line.

[Trenchcoat]

Given the chance, Russia will occupy Donbas, declare a win, entrench and pass the time rearming to try again and again to expand until something breaks, either the will of UA or the will of the Russian people.  Armed by the west, UA can keep up the pressure and take back what they can, but it will be a costly, prolonged war in human terms.

Politically speaking, at this point, Russia has very little, if anything to lose, thus any attempts to negotiate are likely doomed to failure.

Rearm with what? Russia is essentially using up its armaments. I'm doubtful that they will be able to rearm at least any tie soon. It takes time to design, test and manufacture armaments, it's not something you do tommorow. That Russia has stuck with its old stock is telling to me that they are lacking on the ability to churn out armaments. My only other thought would be if they could buy armaments of another country such as China, India, etc but they would still need to await delivery to the front and train their troops up in it. At the moment the whole run down army of Russia appears to be getting even more run down. I think they hoped on a quick victory, take over Ukraine's resources and manufacturing base and build its army up with that. Looks like they might not just make it to me.