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Anna Savich aka Anna Marchenko
Kharkov, Ukraine
I was a dupe. I was a лох. Here is what happened.
Anna and I were scheduled to be married on June 27 in Kharkov. We were to leave for a honeymoon in Belek, Turkey the day after our wedding. Two weeks prior to our wedding Anna drops a bomb on me. She wants a marriage contract. This is not the first that I have heard of the Russian/Ukrainian version of a prenuptial agreement. Given the short amount of notice that I had about this agreement I seriously doubt that it would hold up in court. Of course I declined to sign such an agreement. It sounded like a bonanza for a Green Card Girl. She claimed that someone at the car rental place brought this to her attention. I now know this to be a lie. A payout of $50,000 US was mentioned which caused me to let loose with derisive laughter. She said that the lawyer brought up that amount. Since she refused to get married without the contract the wedding was canceled. This was just the beginning of a painful lesson.
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The plane tickets could not be refunded. My sister's tickets could not be transferred either. We decided to travel to Kharkov in the hope that I could at least get the engagement ring back. Anna conveniently had to travel to take care of her mother while we were there and only showed back up after my sister left town. While I was in Kharkov I met with the travel agent to make sure that I would be notified when a refund was issued for the trip to Turkey. When I finally was able to meet with her for two hours prior to my leaving Anna claimed that the ring was left at her parents' place. She wanted time to think over a suggestion to come to the USA on a fiancée visa. This was just a ruse. I left the USA on June 24 and returned on July 2. Between July 4 and July 7 she placed her profile on Freepersonals, Bride.ru, LucklyLovers, and APrettyWoman. Her new profile includes professional photos which were taken recently. The irony is that I sent her links to three of those sites on May 30 ostensibly for her to use in her own freelance guide/matchmaker service for some ladies she was introducing to foreigners. Money for our wedding probably went to pay for her photo session. It was all planned well in advance. If I signed the agreement I would be on the hook for a GCG. If I did not sign the agreement she planned on us still going to Turkey with the promise of maybe filling out K1 paperwork while we were there. When she returned to Kharkov her new photos and profile were ready to go and I would be an afterthought. She did not plan on me canceling the trip to Turkey. Our honeymoon trip was a wedding gift from my father and I would not dishonor him by taking her since we were not going to be married.
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Anna has shown no remorse about the trouble that she has caused my family and me, only that we did not take the trip to Turkey. Of the money that I sent her for our wedding arrangements I received about 38% of it back. There is no telling how much of the rest of it was squandered. The engagement ring has been sold. Her words.... “I left it with my father. I do not know what he has done with it. Maybe he has sold it”. It is gone.
Now for a few words about marriage contracts from a board member who is married to a Ukrainian lawyer. Do not believe for one minute that these contracts are common in Ukraine.
GB, I spoke to Xxxxx. She found the story very unusual. She say's since 1996 when MC's were begun there have been a total of about 600 filed; they are extremely rare even for the very rich. I hesitate to use the word absolutely but she was very sure the people at Zags "absolutely did not suggest a MC". She thinks it is likely some lawyer but without knowing the circumstances it is difficult to say how it all came about.
As I mentioned Anna is introducing other ladies to foreign men as well as advertising herself. You would do well to avoid Anna and her introduction service.
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is this the girl?
http://www.lovetopping.net/pl_1176915284_eng.html
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is this the girl?
http://www.lovetopping.net/pl_1176915284_eng.html
That is her old profile. I did not know that it existed until recently.
The newer one from Freepersonals is here. (http://freepersonals.ru/profile?id=319540;) The other sites are basically the same.
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Sorry she put you through that Goodbrew.
I think she just got freaked out maybe, or, maybe she was evil from the start.
I am not against a little baiting if you are down for it?
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Geez GB, I'm sorry to hear about this situation (hard to say turn of events if it were indeed preplanned as it seems) and your misfortune and loss. These waters are certainly filled with sharks. Perhaps after the emotions settle a bit, you could post some more details about the situation? Primarily some red flags, or concerns you might have saw/had but overlooked in the process?
This has got to be an extremely painful situation for you and your family. Perhaps a more detailed description of her behavior on past visits, warning signs, etc, could help other guys avoid falling into the same trap. Very weird situation for sure.
Best wishes to you,
Dave
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Sorry she put you through that Goodbrew.
I think she just got freaked out maybe, or, maybe she was evil from the start.
I am not against a little baiting if you are down for it?
She had been planning her exit for at least a month prior to our wedding date. At first I thought that she was just nervous and asked for the MC but it became clear that this was an attempt at being clever. She has admitted to me that she thinks that she is a clever girl. Her reply that maybe her father sold the engagement ring I took as a taunt in a "what can you do about it?" sort of way. She spent a good deal of time mocking me during our last phone conversation. I would rather see if I can get her removed from the foreign dating sites if I could but I appreciate the offer.
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Sorry she put you through that Goodbrew.
I think she just got freaked out maybe, or, maybe she was evil from the start.
I am not against a little baiting if you are down for it?
yeah, whenever I freak out a little, the first things which pops into my mind is a $50k contract for sure. ;D
Perhaps she was sincere in the beginning and just saw what she thought is an opportunity. Perhaps she got scared of being left alone and penniless in the USA, perhaps extraterrestrial body snatcher pods replaced the sincere woman with their nefarious intergalactic counterpart.. who knows? The only certainty here is that this situation is wacked out... and though I am far from being an expert in any and all situations, this is one I've never heard of before. The scammers seem to have become more insidiously patient.. sheesh
you should write to her sculpto, and see what kind of replies you get.
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Geez GB, I'm sorry to hear about this situation (hard to say turn of events if it were indeed preplanned as it seems) and your misfortune and loss. These waters are certainly filled with sharks. Perhaps after the emotions settle a bit, you could post some more details about the situation? Primarily some red flags, or concerns you might have saw/had but overlooked in the process?
This has got to be an extremely painful situation for you and your family. Perhaps a more detailed description of her behavior on past visits, warning signs, etc, could help other guys avoid falling into the same trap. Very weird situation for sure.
Best wishes to you,
Dave
Thanks Dave. The main red flag dovetails with Greg's thread from last night. He is a friend and is aware of my situation. There were a lot of excuses as to why I could not meet mama and papa. They are old and cannot travel in the winter, they have poor health, they trust my judgment and you will meet papa before the wedding. The anxiety over not meeting her family was soothed by the fact that I was meeting her friends and they were asking the hard questions of me that I would expect of family. Also, I never saw any family photos. She claimed that they were at her folks place. What woman doesn't keep at least a few photos of mama and papa around?
The other red flag which I overlooked was her not removing her profile after we became engaged. When we first met she claimed that she had never dated any other foreign men. I know this to be a lie. I asked her about her agency involvement in November of last year just to get her view of things. That is when she lied and said she had not dated other foreigners. There was no reason for her to lie about it. I always assumed that she had met other foreign men prior to meeting me.
One more thing I need to add. We had agreed to let her think over a suggestion from RWD's own Anastassia Ash that she come here on a K1 with the stipulation that I set aside some cash for her to return to Ukraine in case things went bad. This was assuming that what she had told me about the MC was the truth and she just got scared. We were going to reassess our relationship August 1 and go from there. She waited all of two days after I left Kharkov before her new and improved profile went online.
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Very sorry to hear about this situation GoodBrew. But the good thing is that you didnt marry her. Then it could get much worse. Believe me in couple of monthes you will be thanking God that you escaped so easy.
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you should write to her sculpto, and see what kind of replies you get.
I need to set up a fake identity for baiting.. will work on it over the weekend.
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She had been planning her exit for at least a month prior to our wedding date. At first I thought that she was just nervous and asked for the MC but it became clear that this was an attempt at being clever. She has admitted to me that she thinks that she is a clever girl. Her reply that maybe her father sold the engagement ring I took as a taunt in a "what can you do about it?" sort of way. She spent a good deal of time mocking me during our last phone conversation. I would rather see if I can get her removed from the foreign dating sites if I could but I appreciate the offer.
Interesting. Ok, so I have some comments if you don't mind.
In this case she didn't want you to meet the parents not because of shame, but, because they were in on it. Also, by you not knowing exactly where they live it gives her an escape route should she have felt she needed it. She was clever, just not as clever as she thinks. She couldn't pull off the whole thing. So, in fact, she is stupid. ;)
Her mocking you is her guilt speaking, an attempt to wash her hands of something she knows is wrong but did anyway.
I doubt you will have success in having her removed from any sites. They will just say you are a jilted lover seeking revenge. It is even hard to prove as a scam and not just a seriously messed up person.. if you qualify her as a time waster you will be better off. You could make a little site for her.. post her pics and the story and make sure to put her name in every forum, with a link to the little site.. and you will effectively put her out of business if anyone googles her name.
BTW.. everyone googles their lady's names don't they?
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There were a lot of excuses as to why I could not meet mama and papa. They are old and cannot travel in the winter, they have poor health,.........
The other red flag which I overlooked was her not removing her profile after we became engaged.
Damn, I won't kick somebody when they are down.
I have to ask though.....do you even read the advice given on this forum?
I cannot believe what you are writing here.
Sorry, But she used you like a doormat.
And apparently tried to use you like a Government Mule to bring her here to the GoodOl'USA.
GOB
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I would rather see if I can get her removed from the foreign dating sites if I could but I appreciate the offer.
GB, the best thing you can do now is cut your losses and put this whore behind you.
I went through a similar situation about 5 years ago. It's the worst type of breakup of all because you can't even feel sorry for yourself after you realize she never cared a whit for you and played you for a fool.
I know it sounds impossible now, but learning a lesson like this and emerging (relatively) unscathed is something you may be profoundly grateful for someday. It was, and is, for me.
PS: Those guys who thought she did this spontaneously or that she wasn't using him from day one, I have some waterfront property in Queens that I'd like to talk to you about. PM me.
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Damn, I won't kick somebody when they are down.
I have to ask though.....do you even read the advice given on this forum?
I cannot believe what you are writing here.
Sorry, But she used you like a doormat.
And apparently tried to use you like a Government Mule to bring her here to the GoodOl'USA.
GOB
I was expecting this from you and I will freely admit that I effed up bigtime. She told me that she was going to remove her profile. I took her at her word. The profile that I did know about was eventually removed. I did not know about the other older profile under a different name until much later.
Mama and papa are supposed to live in a village four hours outside Chernigov. Whether or not this is true I have no idea. The plan was to meet them the last time I was in Ukraine in February. The weather sucked. It didn't happen. It was a convenient excuse. As I stated in the first post I was a dupe. She has a new profile and is looking for new suckers. Someone will search for her name, find this thread, and learn from my f'up.
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Her mocking you is her guilt speaking, an attempt to wash her hands of something she knows is wrong but did anyway.
Sculpto-
I don't know you from Adam so maybe you have a rationale for believing this. Short of that, allow me to disagree with you as that reads as if you're making an excuse for this woman.
Given that GoodBrew's story is factual, and the fact GregfromGA is stated as a friend to him, I'm inclined to believe that guilt is the one thing this woman never had in this situation. As far as she's concerned, she didn't do anything wrong. She simply exercise the option and opportunity to scam someone with masterful precision. Netted her a good sum in the end.
It would be worthwhile to note the difference in the profiles of how she looks. Simple to see she had a good source of money to spend.
GoodBrew, I'm sorry this happened. Eyes wide open from now on.
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Given that GoodBrew's story is factual, and the fact GregfromGA is stated as a friend to him, I'm inclined to believe that guilt is the one thing this woman never had in this situation. As far as she's concerned, she didn't do anything wrong. She simply exercise the option and opportunity to scam someone with masterful precision.
PS: Those guys who thought she did this spontaneously or that she wasn't using him from day one, I have some waterfront property in Queens that I'd like to talk to you about. PM me.
My only solace in this episode is that I caught on before I could be fitted with the mule suit. She is a cold, calculating individual who had no problem using her friends in her scam.
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Hi,
Good call on not getting married or putting your signature to anything not deemed in your interest. You at least made the right decision in the end and that's something to be proud of. You will do better next time and have learned about things firsthand.
My best wishes to you and hope things get better fast.
Makkin
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I think she just got freaked out maybe
Sculpto, are you for real? :) It's a duck, don't call call it dove...if this woman were for real she NEVER would have parted with the ring. She would have held on hoping for hope.
Man I am sorry this happened to you, sucks beyond belief. You should publish ALL her stuff (email addy, IP addy, phone number and street address on romancescam.com so anyone googling her can read your story and be fore-warned. Sounds to me like she is just getting geared up to really start raking it in. People won't find her here. All you have published is a first name and a city. You need to be specific: Full name, address, phone numbers, IP address, things people are likely to google.
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My only solace in this episode is that I caught on before I could be fitted with the mule suit. She is a cold, calculating individual who had no problem using her friends in her scam.
And most likely they had no problem with begin recruited in the attempt. You didn't get the mule suit, you did get at least 38% of the wedding cash back. You didn't take the Turkey trip. And you have some first hand experience to guide you away from such crap in the future. Perhaps you didn't come out unscathed, but far better off than some other potential eventualities could have left you. I'd say you're in great shape to clear your head and jump back on the horse... a wiser and more adept rider this go around.
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Anna has shown no remorse about the trouble that she has caused my family and me, only that we did not take the trip to Turkey. Of the money that I sent her for our wedding arrangements I received about 38% of it back. There is no telling how much of the rest of it was squandered. The engagement ring has been sold. Her words.... “I left it with my father. I do not know what he has done with it. Maybe he has sold it”. It is gone.
You're actually ahead - a divorce would have cost more.
DD
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You're actually ahead - a divorce would have cost more.
DD
And probably worse. She probably would have gone the abused spouce route :(
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Sculpto-
I don't know you from Adam so maybe you have a rationale for believing this. Short of that, allow me to disagree with you as that reads as if you're making an excuse for this woman.
Given that GoodBrew's story is factual, and the fact GregfromGA is stated as a friend to him, I'm inclined to believe that guilt is the one thing this woman never had in this situation. As far as she's concerned, she didn't do anything wrong. She simply exercise the option and opportunity to scam someone with masterful precision. Netted her a good sum in the end.
It would be worthwhile to note the difference in the profiles of how she looks. Simple to see she had a good source of money to spend.
GoodBrew, I'm sorry this happened. Eyes wide open from now on.
GQ, I don't doubt in the least it is factual. After reviewing her new profile and seeing the pics it is clear to me she is "working". That doesn't mean she didn't have some feelings for GB. She spent time with him, had sex with him, laughed and whatever.. until she tried to implement the "money shot" of her evil plan. Without hearing her excuses/story there is no way to know just how calculating she actually was from the beginning. But, one thing I do know about people is when they feel guilt they will often make fun of the person they wronged in a feeble attempt to clear their own sour heart. Believe me, I am not making excuses for her. I wouldn't be willing to bait her if I thought she had even an ounce of innocence. And trust me.. by the time I get done with her.. she will be scared to try her games again.
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And trust me.. by the time I get done with her.. she will be scared to try her games again.
Sic Em Sculpto :)!!!!!!!!!!
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lol Jolly.. social engineering is an art form. I love putting it to good use.
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Fair enough Sculpto...
Many moons ago when I first started my quest there was a member from another galaxy board (Flying Finn was his name) who wrote how his GF had 3 WM BFs all at the same time (sex and all) and they were all supporting her (him as well); and all he had to do was to send the text messages for her to her BFs.
My first time in Moscow on my way back home, 4 AM at the front lobby waiting for a cab, I had a small chat with 2 young, beautiful Ukrainian women (razzled hair) about how sad it will be for both of then once one of the girl's papers arrive from her Italian fiancee. Sad because they won't be able to pair-up to work in Moscow together anymore.
We're not searching or preaching absolutes here, we're simply noting dubious patterns in hopes somewhere along those lines we can help each other out ~ or even one member out.
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Well, I'll play devil's advocate here.
I doubt Anna was a green card scammer. Had she been, she would not have blinked at the OP balking at signing the pre-nup. She would have come up with an excuse or massaged things so as not to lose the "ultimate prize".
The bottom line is neither of these two loved each other, so it is best they have parted ways.
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GQ.. the sad thing is the story you related could be a certain class of women from anywhere.. it is not specific to the FSU by a long shot.
Way back in my art school days we had a film presentation one Sunday. I can't remember if it was Soviet or Czeck, but, the story was about two women who joined the "party". One was a "believer" and the other was a player. The player screwed her way to power taking down the local party boss due to his infidelity with her. The believer was a work horse who never moved up, even though she really believed in the revolution. The final scene was of the "believer" riding a bike down a deserted country lane to deliver a message. Anyone recognize the film? I have been trying to remember it forever.
Anyway, my point is, some women learn at an early age how to manipulate men for their own benefit. A man doesn't have to be brilliant to figure it out. But, how many times do we hear the conversations here of men trying to "upgrade" but who also somehow fail to recognize obvious signs? or, conversely, how often to we hear advice based on some abstract absolute that doesn't take everything into consideration?
Ultimately, if we are to believe Ambach for example, if money/security is the main motivator for a lot of women to leave their country, then, if the lady in question had seen some signs she didn't like in the OP, and she read some horror stories on the internet, and someone told her to get a MC and demand a specific amount.. does that make her a scammer, or, merely a stupid girl who thinks she is looking out for her own best interests? I am not advocating that view, just presenting an alternate.
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Anyway, my point is, some women learn at an early age how to manipulate men for their own benefit.
I'm married to a Russian woman and I have great reverence for her culture so I have no axe to grind, but IMHO such women are much more common in the FSU than the West. Economics and lack of opportunity, etc. etc, but it is what it is.
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such women are much more common in the FSU than the West
My better half says the same thing. However, in his opinion, it is the result of seventy odd years of Bolshevism.
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I'm married to a Russian woman and I have great reverence for her culture so I have no axe to grind, but IMHO such women are much more common in the FSU than the West. Economics and lack of opportunity, etc. etc, but it is what it is.
Groove.. I don't have any statistics one way or the other.. and you might very well be right.. but, lets consider a couple of things. The divorce rate in both places is about the same. From my graduating high school class, from what I have been able to gather from recent reconnects on FB, well over 50% of the marriages failed and some are on their second and third. Several comments have been made about some women who married and divorced their way to wealth. Right now, one of my fav high school sweethearts, who has been married 15 years, is on the verge of dumping her husband.. reasons? he isn't romantic with her and he isn't giving her enough sex and of course the big one.. he is cheap and won't give her money nor let her work. So, after 15 years and two kids she is going to leave him. She still looks good and thinks a lot of guys with a lot more money will be interested in her because she has taken good care of herself and is "womanly". She has absolutely no skills except being a Mom and a luncheon with the girls lady. 45 with two school aged kids.. what do you think her chances are? I have advised her to find a way to work it out with her husband, but, I don't know if she has the strength to do it.
I really don't think the dynamics are that different there and here, with one major exception. Women here have had more opportunities to create their own wealth for a longer period of time. But, hasn't that been a two edged sword for a lot of men in the USA? When women don't need us for money.. then they only need us for sperm.. because face it.. even a real homely girl in the US can get some action without much effort.
One day I might tell you about some girls I encountered a few years ago that had a bet they were working. It would make any Russian scammer bow down in respect. AWs are not that innocent when it comes to working a man. They just aren't as hot/sexy/cute when they do it. ;)
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There was no reason for her to lie about it...... We were going to reassess our relationship August 1 and go from there.
Whoa! You are still thinking about her?
She lied to you, and without reason. This reveals that lying is her nature. A woman in her 30s will not likely change. If you get back together (and I hope you don’t based on what I see), every time a new conflict emerges the first thought in your head is, “She has lied to me before, so she probably is lying this time.”
Marry someone whom you can trust. Trust really is important. Not just for your peace of mind, but to be able to work together as a effective husband-wife partnership.
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GoodBrew,
I doubt that a MC signed in Ukraine would hold water in the US. Nevertheless, you not sisgn anything that you are uncmfortable with.
If she had not brought this up at the last moment and did not have the other red flags (such as lying), I would say that you could make this work and still satisfy her. You would say, "$50,000 is reasonable. In fact, let us make it $100,000. $2,500 if we divorce after one year, $5,000 after two years ....$50,000 after 20 years...."
You wrote, "She waited all of two days after I left Kharkov before her new and improved profile went online."
This woman is on a mission to fleece a foreigner.
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Her mocking you is her guilt speaking, an attempt to wash her hands of something she knows is wrong but did anyway.
But, one thing I do know about people is when they feel guilt they will often make fun of the person they wronged in a feeble attempt to clear their own sour heart.
Are you nuts? Not even Dr. Phil would give such a lame excuse.
Mocking during such a situation shows no respect for GB and no empathy for what he could be feeling. Also, she quickly moved on to looking for a new man when her marriage plans failed at the last momnet. Don't forget, she also lies.
What a sweetheart!
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Whoa! You are still thinking about her?
Nope. Not a chance. Poor writing on my part. The sequence of events is out of order. Her lies were exposed after we had agreed to the August 1 deadline. The last few days I have had to play along to make sure that the refund for the trip to Turkey would be delivered(it was!) and to see if there was any way that I could recover the engagement ring(not gonna happen).
GoodBrew,
I doubt that a MC signed in Ukraine would hold water in the US. Nevertheless, you not sisgn anything that you are uncmfortable with.
If she had not brought this up at the last moment and did not have the other red flags (such as lying), I would say that you could make this work and still satisfy her. You would say, "$50,000 is reasonable. In fact, let us make it $100,000. $2,500 if we divorce after one year, $5,000 after two years ....$50,000 after 20 years...."
You wrote, "She waited all of two days after I left Kharkov before her new and improved profile went online."
This woman is on a mission to fleece a foreigner.
Your suggestion was considered for maybe a fraction of a second. I found the whole idea of the MC dropped on me two weeks before the wedding to be insulting and offensive. Doubtful it would have held up in court considering that it was sprung at the last minute. If I signed the MC she might have stuck around in the States long enough to be eligible for a big payout after a divorce and then returned to Ukraine similar to what air2007 is describing in this thread. (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=8501.msg191592#msg191592)
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Goodbrew,
Like Gator I thought you were actually leaving the door open for another run at it. For anyone who thinks, after experiencing a similar thing, that there is a flicker of hope, I can only refer you to the wise words of the former leader of the free world:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKgPY1adc0A&feature=PlayList&p=3CCAB22CAA1791EC&index=0
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Are you nuts? Not even Dr. Phil would give such a lame excuse.
Mocking during such a situation shows no respect for GB and no empathy for what he could be feeling. Also, she quickly moved on to looking for a new man when her marriage plans failed at the last momnet. Don't forget, she also lies.
What a sweetheart!
Gator.. I am not making excuses for anyone. Just explaining the behavior as I see it. From what we have heard her behavior has been despicable. But I can't help thinking there is another side to this story.
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GB
Theres not another side to the story.
She did not get scared or have 2nd thoughts. You were walked on.
A good genuine women can have 2nd thoughts or get scared and want to call things off. This is part of relationships. But they do it in a different way. In your instance she would have retrurned the ring and made things less of a burden for you. She would have been a real person with a heart even though she was bailing on you.
So, dont 2nd guess yourself thinking if you should give it a 2nd chance.
take care
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Report the incident to the US consul in Kyiv. The can keep an eye on her name should it come up in connection with a future k-1 application.
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GB
Theres not another side to the story.
She did not get scared or have 2nd thoughts. You were walked on.
A good genuine women can have 2nd thoughts or get scared and want to call things off. This is part of relationships. But they do it in a different way. In your instance she would have retrurned the ring and made things less of a burden for you. She would have been a real person with a heart even though she was bailing on you.
So, dont 2nd guess yourself thinking if you should give it a 2nd chance.
take care
Yeah, this is the thought that keeps going through my head. I was willing to accept that she got nervous. Might have accepted that the MC idea was a dumb spur of the moment suggestion if I had not learned otherwise. Was at one point open to her coming here as a fiancée instead a wife. I would have accepted that she didn't want to marry me and let it go if she had just given the ring back instead of making excuses about its whereabouts. A good woman would have done things differently.
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if she had just given the ring back
Lets ask the ladies.. in the event of a breakup.. is the lady obligated to return the ring?
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Lets ask the ladies.. in the event of a breakup.. is the lady obligated to return the ring?
Just hazarding a guess: since we're told that an engagement ring is NOT an FSU tradition, I don't think FSUW would feel morally obligated to return it in case the deal goes belly up, as is implied - though not universally applied - in the West. Just a gift. Am I wrong?
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Sandro is correct. Traditionally, engagement rings were never given in Ukraine. This is imported from Western culture, and Ukrainians often do see it as a way of fleecing foreigners.
In Western culture, if a woman breaks an engagement, she should return the ring. If the man breaks the engagement, the woman is free to keep the ring.
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Sandro is correct. Traditionally, engagement rings were never given in Ukraine. This is imported from Western culture, and Ukrainians often do see it as a way of fleecing foreigners.
In Western culture, if a woman breaks an engagement, she should return the ring. If the man breaks the engagement, the woman is free to keep the ring.
Yep, and I will add as a furtherance of my own professed agenda, the whole concept of a "traditional engagement ring" is totally asinine... (climbing down from my anti DeBeers soap box)... hey, it others can promote their agendas with impunity.. I can promote mine!
Down With Treacherous lies of marketing hype!
Down With The Insanity of thinking compressed carbon has anything at all to do with love!
Boil the DeBeers speck! Boil that DeBeers speck! Beezlenut Oil! Beezlenut Oil!
Boil the DeBeers speck! Boil that DeBeers speck! Beezlenut Oil! Beezlenut Oil!
Two months salary my popka.
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Yep, and I will add as a furtherance of my own professed agenda, the whole concept of a "traditional engagement ring" is totally asinine... (climbing down from my anti DeBeers soap box)... hey, it others can promote their agendas with impunity.. I can promote mine!
Down With Treacherous lies of marketing hype!
Down With The Insanity of thinking compressed carbon has anything at all to do with love!
Boil the DeBeers speck! Boil that DeBeers speck! Beezlenut Oil! Beezlenut Oil!
Boil the DeBeers speck! Boil that DeBeers speck! Beezlenut Oil! Beezlenut Oil!
Two months salary my popka.
As if any sane FSUW'd accept a "traditional engagement ring" from an utterly deranged AM ;D.
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Sandro is correct. Traditionally, engagement rings were never given in Ukraine. This is imported from Western culture, and Ukrainians often do see it as a way of fleecing foreigners.
In Western culture, if a woman breaks an engagement, she should return the ring. If the man breaks the engagement, the woman is free to keep the ring.
Not really. SANDRO was more on the mark. An engagement ring is a gift and should be viewed as a gift. Albeit a gift for a specific purpose and thus when an engagement is broken, many times the gift is returned. Many times it isn't, regardless of who broke the engagement. The gift is that of the receiver to do as they wish, return it or do something else. Once given, it is no longer the giver's option.
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As if any sane FSUW'd accept a "traditional engagement ring" from an utterly deranged AM ;D.
HAHA! Sandro, you do have a point... and it is well taken...
I just put in for an emergency exorcism as I am obviously afflicted with diamonic possession (and therefore not responsible for my prior absurdity)
Returning you now to the informative thread already in progress...
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Emily Post's view is that an engagement ring should always be returned, unless it is a family heirloom of the bride. I think that has changed over time. I remember this being a big debate when Ann Landers used to write her advice column, and she subscribed to this view -
http://www.a-to-z-of-manners-and-etiquette.com/broken-engagement.html
Daveman :).
Diamonds can be manufactured now. I don't wear diamonds because the diamond industry funds a lot of evil in the world.
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Not really. SANDRO was more on the mark.
FP, apparently the norm varies with the locale. Boethius's more specific 'rule' applies here in Italy, too.
The jilted fiancée keeping the ring is considered a rightful compensation for 'damages' incurred into ;), IINM our legislation never contemplated 'breach of promise'.
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. The gift is that of the receiver to do as they wish, return it or do something else. Once given, it is no longer the giver's option.
Exactly.. and this is what has led me to wonder what the whole story is.
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FP, apparently the norm varies with the locale. Boethius's more specific 'rule' applies here in Italy, too.
The jilted fiancée keeping the ring is considered a rightful compensation for 'damages' incurred into ;), IINM our legislation never contemplated 'breach of promise'.
I've seen it go a number of ways. The Dear Abby etiquette is okay as a rule of thumb but, from what I have witnessed break ups/offs are rarely amicable and all etiquette flies out the window. Personally, once I presented a ring I wouldn't want it back. The OP's situation clearly has some extenuating circumstances but I wouldn't have asked for it back either. For me, a gift is a gift.
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I've seen it go a number of ways. The Dear Abby etiquette is okay as a rule of thumb but, from what I have witnessed break ups/offs are rarely amicable and all etiquette flies out the window. Personally, once I presented a ring I wouldn't want it back. The OP's situation clearly has some extenuating circumstances but I wouldn't have asked for it back either. For me, a gift is a gift.
Requesting the ring back would be seen as the ultimate in greed and poor taste. And then afterwards she mocked him.. hmmm
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My experience with RW in Kiev is engagement ring is a gift and not to be returned. I think this is different than AW. In the Elena model hand book (the former owner of the agency who wrote a book) - she stated any gift given should not be expected to be returned by a RW otherwise do not give the gift to RW in the first place. Foreign men may think this is strange but this is the culture in Russia. Gifts are not to be returned.
The 50,000 usd contract may not hold up in USA court but there are a lot of scum bag RM in USA who would enforce this contract for her for 50%. They would enforce it by threatening you and your family. This is no joke and has happened to other men. You did the right thing by not signing. This contract was not her worrying about coming to the USA it was about providing a meal ticket to her.
When I sold cars in Ukraine, it was stated several times to me that RM would show up at my door in USA if things went wrong. One time they came to verify I lived where I stated just to make sure they could trust me. These were RM living in USA.
My advice is not worry about the money. What has been spent is spent. You can write on the internet all you want but if she is listed in agencies many men will visit her - because most men who visit do no research on the internet.
You want revenge hire a man to take her on a trip to Dominican Republic. Than have this man steal her passport and all her belongings and leave the country. Also, cancel her airplane ticket home.
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You want revenge hire a man to take her on a trip to Dominican Republic. Than have this man steal her passport and all her belongings and leave the country. Also, cancel her airplane ticket home.
I LOVE THAT! hahahaha! you are EVIL!
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I like the way you think Kievstar. GB is a very nice guy and I just cant see him pulling this one off. Me on the other hand well I'd probably try it or either just pay someone to have her dismembered and dumped in the Dniper at various points while being weighted down ...I'm certainly not piling on my friend GB but in the future to avoid crap like this, just dont give a ring until you're married. Spend as much time as you possibly can in Ukraine with her and her family. On Friday and Saturday nights, she should be at home. On any night, she should be at home or on the way home. I was lucky because my wife never did discos and clubs ever. If you're engaged your wife to be shouldnt be doing them as well. It's pretty sad the way this whole thing turned out for GB. He's a great guy and will one day make some lucky girl a wonderful husband. Hang in there buddy.
Also I'm certainly not saying that GB's girl was not at home when he called. We never discussed that.Discos were never mentioned as well. I just thought I would throw in that little tidbit for free. Obviously something was going right because dates were set, tickets bought, etc etc...
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I communicated with GB before I met my wife on a blind date. I never talked on the phone or saw her prior to the meeting GB said nice things and I made the visit. He is a nice guy.
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You want revenge hire a man to take her on a trip to Dominican Republic. Than have this man steal her passport and all her belongings and leave the country. Also, cancel her airplane ticket home.
LOVELY! Absolutely BRILLIANT! If my relationship goes south in a bad way, I'll be pm'ing you for some great ideas :P
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Requesting the ring back would be seen as the ultimate in greed and poor taste. And then afterwards she mocked him.. hmmm
I last saw her wearing the engagement ring the first weekend in June on Skype webcam. She delivered some refund money to Mila just before I arrived in Kharkov June 25 and I was told that she was not wearing it when they met. This was prior to me formally requesting that she return it. Chances are that it was long gone before my arrival in Kharkov.
Greg and k-star, thanks for the kind words. And Greg, point taken on any future jewelry purchase. I started this thread hoping that someone might stumble upon it and spare himself some grief dealing with Anna. However, other life events have occurred which are making it difficult to concentrate and remember all her questionable behavior and detail what happened. A week prior to the whole MC fallout a lifelong friend was diagnosed with and almost died from an aneurysm. He survived with just a little short term memory loss and is now resting at home. Now I have been told that a close relative has lung and brain cancer. I just don't have it in me right now to continue discussing what some hussy did to me and quite frankly my troubles are nothing compared to those of my friend and aunt. This is as good a time as any to take an extended break from fSUW and, for a while at least, RWD.
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GB, best of luck to you and yours. I really am sorry about what happened to you. Please don't take my analysis as criticism.. just trying to dissect things to make what you went through more valuable to future readers and maybe yourself.
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GB -
Very sorry to read your tale of woe but thanks for sharing - it'll help keep us newbie's on track.
The lessons i've gleaned from this are:
1) Be wary if you've not been introduced to the family fairly early-on in the piece
2) Spend extended time (as much as possible) with her before taking the leap and getting engaged
3) Be on the lookout for (but not paranoid about) 'untruths'
4) Early removal of a profile(s) from websites is a good sign; and the opposite could be a cause for concern
Anybody care to build on/debate these?
Thanks again GB and hope you meet a decent woman soon!
WN?
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Lets ask the ladies.. in the event of a breakup.. is the lady obligated to return the ring?
Yes, if the break up is mutual, she has to return the ring. When a guy breaks up with a girl, it depends. Normal guy would not drag a ring off her finger the second after break up. It happened to me , and it was pretty horrible. Plus, I really do not need a ring if nothing worked between us, he can keep it.
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GB -
Very sorry to read your tale of woe but thanks for sharing - it'll help keep us newbie's on track.
The lessons i've gleaned from this are:
1) Be wary if you've not been introduced to the family fairly early-on in the piece
2) Spend extended time (as much as possible) with her before taking the leap and getting engaged
3) Be on the lookout for (but not paranoid about) 'untruths'
4) Early removal of a profile(s) from websites is a good sign; and the opposite could be a cause for concern
Anybody care to build on/debate these?
Thanks again GB and hope you meet a decent woman soon!
WN?
Those are good for "rule of thumb" but not hard and fast truths. Each is certainly a flag but, none mean that a guy is on his way to scammersville or need for paranoia. When one sees two, three or all these and more, it is certainly time to take stock in the situation logically, which is very difficult to do with your penis.
I reaffirm this approach has to be in the same way and manner that you'd date a lady in your hometown (with appropriate adjustments of course). If you'd date a liar or a lady once or twice before engaging marriage at home, don't hesitate to do it in the FSU. ;D
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If you'd date a lady once or twice before engaging marriage at home, don't hesitate to do it in the FSU. ;D
then I'm behind schedule with my FSU woman ;) :cheesygrin:
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We have a member that stood up and made their report.
All-be-it a disappointment.
I think it was brave and informative.
I don't agree that 'Bolshivism' is a contributing factor in the Russian culture any more.
My wife is convinced that since the break-up of the Soviets...life is actualy more chaotic than ever.
Odd that this Anna girl is listed on Latina dating sites but folks take pictures from other angencies and manipulate what they might.
No need to be critical of the responces here and there.
No matter where some one is from...it's a crapshoot.
I threw the dice myself and got lucky.
Good luck to all...........................
Karl
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Sandro is correct. Traditionally, engagement rings were never given in Ukraine. This is imported from Western culture, and Ukrainians often do see it as a way of fleecing foreigners.
In Western culture, if a woman breaks an engagement, she should return the ring. If the man breaks the engagement, the woman is free to keep the ring.
In US law -an engagement ring is part of a "contract" leading to marriage. If the contract is not consumated, the ring reverts to the giver (unless it can't be found). Quite a few ladies seem to have trouble with this.
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In US law -an engagement ring is part of a "contract" leading to marriage. If the contract is not consumated, the ring reverts to the giver (unless it can't be found). Quite a few ladies seem to have trouble with this.
I did not buy my wife a diamond engagement ring. She didn't mind as it was not part of her culture. Now, however, we are upgrading our rings this summer after three years and she will wear her old wedding ring on her right hand and her new rings on her left. This fall, we want to go back to the church where we were married to have our new rings blessed and to commemorate our three years together as husband and wife. The easiest solution IMHO: do not give a ring unless you would not mind losing it as it is not central to Russian culture anyways. It is a gift, and gifts should not be given if you fear losing them :-X
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In US law -an engagement ring is part of a "contract" leading to marriage. If the contract is not consumated, the ring reverts to the giver (unless it can't be found). Quite a few ladies seem to have trouble with this.
I have neither seen nor heard of such a "law", however, I must admit my legal education is based upon watching Judge Judy deal with the intellectually challenged of the world. She has mentioned the "moral rightness" of returning an engagement ring, mentioning the custom 'who breaks the engagement', but legally viewed it as a "gift" -- though I do seem to remember one or two cases where she ordered the return of the ring.... if there is such a law, it must be buried somewhere on the books of a few states otherwise I am positive there would be many more guys in court getting rings back.
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I did not buy my wife a diamond engagement ring. She didn't mind as it was not part of her culture. Now, however, we are upgrading our rings this summer after three years and she will wear her old wedding ring on her right hand and her new rings on her left. This fall, we want to go back to the church where we were married to have our new rings blessed and to commemorate our three years together as husband and wife. The easiest solution IMHO: do not give a ring unless you would not mind losing it as it is not central to Russian culture anyways. It is a gift, and gifts should not be given if you fear losing them :-X
Sorry for the "off topic" but are you getting remarried in a RU Orthodox Church??? If so, can you invite us? ;) We were remarried earlier this year and the RU Orthodox service is very grand (compared to a Lutheran marriage anyway). If you've got a big head prepare for the crown to cut in a little though! :P I came out of the church looking like my head had been bound up in fencing wire for 48 hours.
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Sorry for the "off topic" but are you getting remarried in a RU Orthodox Church???
No, we were already married in the RU Orthodox Church, but we want to have the new rings blessed and we want to say hello to the priest that married us. But, you are invited anyways ;)
If you've got a big head prepare for the crown to cut in a little though! :P I came out of the church looking like my head had been bound up in fencing wire for 48 hours.
In our ceremony, the crowns were held over our heads by out witnesses. Given that mine was shorter than me, his arms were quite tired by the end of the ceremony :)
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I have neither seen nor heard of such a "law ...
Neither have I, but a search on that turned up some weird cases...including a married man who gave his mistress an engagement ring [some people]
Usually, these rings wind up getting sold off for a fraction of the value.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1W1GZAZ_en&q=law+returning+engagement+ring&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
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Neither have I, but a search on that turned up some weird cases...including a married man who gave his mistress an engagement ring [some people]
Usually, these rings wind up getting sold off for a fraction of the value.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz=1W1GZAZ_en&q=law+returning+engagement+ring&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=
Yeah, some interesting cases for sure. AND, looks like Dobradavid is correct in that there ARE some laws on the books pertaining to various aspects.. as well as different possible perspective applications. Interesting reads for sure.. whoda thunk it?
interesting quick read
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/grossman/20011023.html
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I think the moral lesson to be garnered from this discussion is:
NEVER EVER GIVE A DIAMOND ENGAGEMENT RING TO A FSUW :D
Because:
1. FSUW do not appreciate its sentimental value but, on the other hand,
2. They, like any other W, do appreciate its $/€ value ;D.
And the unsentimental b!tches may also have the nerve to complain about it afterwards :wallbash:
At 22 I got engaged to my (ex-)wife-to-be and gave her a ring with a small (1/3 carat, IIRC) but very nice diamond I had bought from a reputed jeweller in central Milan, their shop a few hundred yards from our Duomo cathedral, recommended by a wealthy friend's mother who was into jewelry - it being my 1st, and last ;), engagement ring, I was naturally clueless about the whole business and had sought her advice.
Years after our divorce, I was informed by my former SIL that her sister was mad at me because, having given the ring to a local jeweller to clean it up as she was wont to do periodically, he had informed her that the stone was of little value :o :(. What had probably happened was that a previous jeweller had replaced my diamond with another of much lower quality, and the silly b!tch never noticed his sleight of hand.
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I have neither seen nor heard of such a "law", however, I must admit my legal education is based upon watching Judge Judy deal with the intellectually challenged of the world. She has mentioned the "moral rightness" of returning an engagement ring, mentioning the custom 'who breaks the engagement', but legally viewed it as a "gift" -- though I do seem to remember one or two cases where she ordered the return of the ring.... if there is such a law, it must be buried somewhere on the books of a few states otherwise I am positive there would be many more guys in court getting rings back.
You gotta go and look, dude. 8)
If the engagement is over, state law decides who keeps the engagement ring.
The engagement is over. In addition to the sorrow, the heartbroken must deal with the question of whether the engagement ring need to be returned--along with the deposits left with the caterer, the florist, and the dressmaker.
State courts around the nation that have considered the issue -- whether a bride can keep the engagement ring or whether she must return it - have reached different conclusions.
When Is a Gift a Gift?
Courts generally treat the engagement ring as a gift, from the donor (the person who gave the ring) to the donee (the person who received it). To be considered a legal gift, three things must be present: the donor's intent to give the ring as a gift, the donor's delivery of it to the donee, and the donee's acceptance of the item. If the person to whom the ring was given can show all three elements, a court will consider the ring to be a gift.
Conditional Gifts
However, the majority of courts also consider such a gift to be a conditional one. That means that, until some future event occurs, the gift isn't final; if that event does not occur, then the donor has the right to get the gift back.
http://family.findlaw.com/marriage/marriage-more/broken-engagement.html
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I think the moral lesson to be garnered from this discussion is:
NEVER EVER GIVE A DIAMOND ENGAGEMENT RING TO A FSUW :D
See I disagree - FSU women are well aware of the western custom. OTOH - I won't spend more than a few hundred dollars. I agree that "2-3 months salary" is marketing BS. 8)
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OTOH - I won't spend more than a few hundred dollars.
So you'll give her a zircon engagement ring, at best :-\.
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I think the moral lesson to be garnered from this discussion is:
NEVER EVER GIVE A DIAMOND ENGAGEMENT RING TO A FSUW :D
Because:
1. FSUW do not appreciate its sentimental value but, on the other hand,
2. They, like any other W, do appreciate its $/€ value ;D.
I hate all absolutes. :cheesygrin:
If you want to give an engagement ring, do so. Yes, it isn't their custom but if it is yours, honor it if you feel the need. Have a conversation explaining why you are giving it to her and be sure you consider her POV. After al, if she is the type being talked about you're getting a clue as to the viability of the marriage.
Whether you get engaged to a UW, RW, AW, goat, latina or whatever, you may not get it back. Plan accordingly and acept the consequences.
Good Luck!
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So you'll give her a zircon engagement ring, at best :-\.
I did not write that - you may be confusing me with yourself. 8)
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When I became engaged, I gave her a very nice but inexpensive necklace as a gift with the understanding we would buy a ring together a few days later. I few days later, after she had picked out a ring for which she refused to upgrade regardless of my insistence, I had to put out a total of $78. Thats USD. A zircon would have more expensive.
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If you're going to spend a "few hundred dollars", you will not be buying a quality diamond, be it in the US, Ukraine, or Russia.
My suggestion in each case is to let the woman choose the ring herself.
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Boethius' suggestion has merit for some. As for me, I was raised in the tradition that the guy picks the ring and offers it sight unseen. Any woman who accepts or rejects based upon the ring isn't someone worth the effort - IMO.
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If you're going to spend a "few hundred dollars", you will not be buying a quality diamond, be it in the US, Ukraine, or Russia.
My suggestion in each case is to let the woman choose the ring herself.
From what I've read of this guy his interests lay more with ensuring his wife doesn't have access to his assets rather than giving her a quality ring.
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From what I've read of this guy his interests lay more with ensuring his wife doesn't have access to his assets rather than giving her a quality ring.
LOL.
As for me, I was raised in the tradition that the guy picks the ring and offers it sight unseen. Any woman who accepts or rejects based upon the ring isn't someone worth the effort - IMO.
Ed, while I understand and respect your point, it is a romantic position, rather than one borne of practicality. Taste is very subjective. Do you want a woman to lie to you and tell you she loves a ring she doesn't? A woman who loves you loves the idea of you buying the ring, but she should be free to tell you it isn't her taste.
For the record, I didn't get an engagement ring from my Kyiyanin. He did choose my wedding band, though. But, I'm not much of a jewelery person.
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I did not write that - you may be confusing me with yourself. 8)
You didn't :o? The Forum SW must be playing some tricks, then ::):
See I disagree - FSU women are well aware of the western custom. OTOH - I won't spend more than a few hundred dollars. I agree that "2-3 months salary" is marketing BS. 8)
Still does, apparently :-\.
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You didn't :o? The Forum SW must be playing some tricks, then ::):
Still does, apparently :-\.
Yes - and "Zircon" was nowhere in what I wrote. You wrote that and you have selectively cited my posts - which speaks volumes about your personality.
You are aware that wearing a jacket and tie in your picture is not a substitute for competant communication/writing, yes? Nor education. 8)
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Yes - and "Zircon" was nowhere in what I wrote. You wrote that and you have selectively cited my posts - which speaks volumes about your personality.
You are aware that wearing a jacket and tie in your picture is not a substitute for competant communication/writing, yes? Nor education. 8)
What??? an attack on Sandro???
Boooooo....
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Yes - and "Zircon" was nowhere in what I wrote.You wrote that
No, it wasn't and yes, I wrote it, so what? That's what "a few hundred dollars" would get you. Or can you enlighten us all where we could get a diamond ring for that paltry sum :-\? THAT'd be some useful information.
and you have selectively cited my posts - which speaks volumes about your personality.
Selectively cited your post :o? Let me do it again in its entirety, as I did before (Volume I, Chapter 2 of my personality: preferably quote in full to avoid subsequent quibbles):
See I disagree - FSU women are well aware of the western custom. OTOH - I won't spend more than a few hundred dollars. I agree that "2-3 months salary" is marketing BS. 8)
Must add a footnote to Chapter 2: Caution: some will quibble regardless, anyway :wallbash:.
You are aware that wearing a jacket and tie in your picture is not a substitute for competant communication/writing, yes? Nor education. 8)
Neither is NOT wearing them apparently, since it allows someone to write competAnt rather than competEnt. So much for education ::). As for the rest:
Foul, foul! Dan, I'm being subjected to crass garment discrimination, please do something to "redress" this unjustifiable harassment :sad:
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
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What??? an attack on Sandro???
BC, he's not attacking me REALLY, but my jacket and tie ;). I had thought of changing my avatar to a more recent photo but alas, I'm still wearing a tie :(.
(http://www.floriani.it/66a.jpg)
P.S.: I hope YOU won't be offended if I left the Boooooo.... out of your quote ;D.
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BC, he's not attacking me REALLY, but my jacket and tie ;). I had thought of changing my avatar to a more recent photo but alas, I'm still wearing a tie :(.
(http://www.floriani.it/66a.jpg)
P.S.: I hope YOU won't be offended if I left the Boooooo.... out of your quote ;D.
just don't attack my dolphin..
and
on topic..
the person in question has been writing me for a month..
(nice completely normal letters,no hook,it's not like this is my first rodeo)
it's pretty funny to see the photos here.
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i agree, better propose with no ring and pick the ring together later. My husband bought me a ring and its kinda ugly :( Every time i walk by a jewelry shop and see all the pretty engagement rings, im so sad he couldnt pick a pretty one, now im stuck with this one. I mean almost every single one of them, cheap or expensive is pretty, except mine!! And i dont have the heart to tell him that i think its ugly lol. I dont know how he managed to pick this one out of so many pretty rings
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My husband bought me a ring and its kinda ugly :( Every time i walk by a jewelry shop and see all the pretty engagement rings, im so sad he couldnt pick a pretty one, now im stuck with this one. I mean almost every single one of them, cheap or expensive is pretty, except mine!! And i dont have the heart to tell him that i think its ugly lol. I dont know how he managed to pick this one out of so many pretty rings
LOL.
I know (hope) you don't really mean that, but that's pretty funny. Look at it this way Aloe...the fact it's not like everything else - makes it unique. The fact it's one of a kind, makes it a gem.
;)
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In about 5 years when your husband has his career going and making more money just lose it and have it upgraded.
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No, it wasn't and yes, I wrote it, so what? That's what "a few hundred dollars" would get you. Or can you enlighten us all where we could get a diamond ring for that paltry sum :-\? THAT'd be some useful information.
Foul, foul! Dan, I'm being subjected to crass garment discrimination, please do something to "redress" this unjustifiable harassment :sad:
Yes you wrote it - so stop attributing it to me. For a few hundred dollars, you could also get a starimaster, since your attempts at wit are indicative of low self-esteem. Unless negative attention is better than no attention? 8)
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Yes you wrote it - so stop attributing it to me.
Where have I ever done that :o? Please quote my offending post.
For a few hundred dollars, you could also get a starimaster
No idea what that is, unless it's another misspelt word. Stairmaster, maybe?
since your attempts at wit are indicative of low self-esteem.
You are an amazing source of new behavioural theories, I'll store that nugget of wisdom alongside "Jackets and ties: no substitutes for competAnt communication/writing".
:ROFL:
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Yes - and "Zircon" was nowhere in what I wrote. You wrote that and you have selectively cited my posts - which speaks volumes about your personality.
Sandro suggested that the best ring you could buy for a few hundred dollars was a zircon ring. He never said you specifically indicated a purchase of a zircon ring but that it would be the highest quality engagement ring available for only a few hundred dollars. The inference is that "a few hundred dollars" does not buy much of a ring at all. Your over sensitivity speak volumes of YOUR personality kind sir.
You are aware that wearing a jacket and tie in your picture is not a substitute for competant communication/writing, yes? Nor education. 8)
:ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:
David,
I wish you were smart enough to understand how stupid your statement is regarding Sandro who is RWD's version of Google.
KenC
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Sandro, I think your jacket and tie look just fine and competent. Merry Christmas!
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Sandro, I think your jacket and tie look just fine and competent. Merry Christmas!
Thank you Tim, the same to you & family. Ken, you're stating in other words what I thought was pretty obvious...meaning the zircon part ;).
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Good morning,
My name is André, I am Frenchman.
I was in touch with Anna Savych from April, 2014 till November, 2015.
I stopped this relation, because it destroyed me psychologically.
I quickly had a feeling that this woman was not honest, but when they are in love, they are blind...
A lot of lies, and many unsaid...
As GB, I could not have photos of its parents - strange - but arranged to extract me of some money, in a very destructive way.
We met twice, in Kharkov and at home. I smelt him very distant at home.
I decide to post 7 years after GB, but this woman must be put out of state to harm. I am sure that she was in touch with several men at the same time as I: she has 3 telephones at least, and several Skype addresses.
She is on several sites: RUPERSONAL, Natasha Club, Elena' s Model, UKREINE.COM, PartnerVermittlung and many others but on no social networks such as Facebook or VK!!
I post several photos, only in France or with me, or they are photos made by a professional.
She has a training of lawyer, she says that she works in a company which sells some water (Jivaya), but I am sure that she is lawyer indeed, she knows laws, she stays on "the thread of the razor", she is clever, she is DANGEROUS!!!
She makes believe that she has problems of health to receive some money and to refuse to have intimate reports!!
She has a rather good lifestyle: she gets dressed in Chanel, made do again her bathroom, bought an air-conditioning.... With his only wage of secretary to Jivaya? LOL!!!
She has no intention of getting married abroad, she arranges to meet men, and to extract from them some money, to continue her life in Kharkov...
She lies a lot, but when they lie, it is necessary to be very strong on length: she is not her!!
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She has no intention of getting married abroad, she arranges to meet men, and to extract from them some money, to continue her life in Kharkov...
You found this from a seven year old thread :o Fascinating.
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Good morning,
My name is André, I am Frenchman.
I was in touch with Anna Savych from April, 2014 till November, 2015.
I stopped this relation, because it destroyed me psychologically.
I quickly had a feeling that this woman was not honest, but when they are in love, they are blind...
A lot of lies, and many unsaid...
As GB, I could not have photos of its parents - strange - but arranged to extract me of some
Welcome to the forum Andre. What is your next step? Are you still looking for a soulmate or given up? If you're still looking, we can get you on the right direction. Do lots of reading here and ask questions.
You found this from a seven year old thread :o Fascinating.
Google makes finding things easy. What I'm amazed at is this woman is still scamming men after 7 years and wasting their time getting into serious relationships with them. Andre should list her name on anti scam sites.
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André,
Me contacter en MP.
Je connais bien Kharkov,
Si tu as le désir de vivre avec une ukrainienne il est possible de t'aider.
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Thanks to tfcrew, BillyB and Patagonie for your answers.
Forgiveness if my English is sometimes weak, I must make some sentences translate!
For a long time I had spotted this topic, but the photos that GB posted are not there still... Anna Marchenko was therefore unknown woman for me...
She made me suffer tremendously, she must stop her activity, because there are serious agencies which suffer as a result of this feminine type.
She had spoken to me about an ex-husband who left to Canada, without sending for her... If it is true, I understand now. She is centered on her, and very selfish: nothing else counts only her...
Billy B: I will not miss to ask questions, although I am in touch with a woman of Krementchuk since May, we speak every day on Skype, and I went to see her in August during 2 weeks. It is sometimes complicated, but this woman is honest, and never tackles the question of money. She searches a reliable and nice man.
@tfcrew: 7 years afterwards? Yes, I too much suffered, I want that she pays !!
I would have 1000 anecdotes to be told its subject if I had the time... I hope to have a little of time in the days which come, I have a time-consuming job and my talkings on Skype take time to me... But I will make in the best possible way!!
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For a long time I had spotted this topic, but the photos that GB posted are not there still... Anna Marchenko was therefore unknown woman for me...
Photos of Anna on page one looks like their not available but below you'll see the words "Anna.jpg" click on those links, open the file, and you'll see the photos.
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..an ex-husband who left to Canada, without sending for her... If it is true
It probably isn't.
I want that she pays
Will eventually.
Knowing someone well can still get a guy bitten. You just never know for sure.
Life is like that.
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delete. Post from 2009. Christ I'm getting old.
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It probably isn't.
First I've heard of it. Best to think that anything this woman tells you is a lie. After I made the initial post I received emails from 2-3 guys a year for about four years who were either writing or considering visiting this individual. She is very popular on AFA.
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I confess my ignorance: what means AFA? :(
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Anna Savich aka Anna Marchenko
Kharkov, Ukraine
I was a dupe. I was a лох. Here is what happened.
Anna and I were scheduled to be married on June 27 in Kharkov. We were to leave for a honeymoon in Belek, Turkey the day after our wedding. Two weeks prior to our wedding Anna drops a bomb on me. She wants a marriage contract. This is not the first that I have heard of the Russian/Ukrainian version of a prenuptial agreement.... A payout of $50,000 US was mentioned which caused me to let loose with derisive laughter. She said that the lawyer brought up that amount. Since she refused to get married without the contract the wedding was canceled. This was just the beginning of a painful lesson.
Prenups are common nowadays.
What is very strange here is Anna wanting a marriage contract TWO WEEKS BEFORE THE WEDDING. :rolleyes:
I sympathize with you, but why wasn't this discussed WAY BEFORE THE WEDDING DATE?
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That is her old profile. I did not know that it existed until recently.
The newer one from Freepersonals is here. (http://freepersonals.ru/profile?id=319540;) The other sites are basically the same.
Profile not found.
Where is she now?
Wanting $50,000 2 weeks before the wedding date..... definitely fishy. :naughty: :usd: :thumbsdown: :trainwreck:
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Profile not found.
Where is she now?
http://www.ukreine.com/girls/1204/ (http://www.ukreine.com/girls/1204/)
http://www.rupersonal.com/Anyuta_73.html (http://www.rupersonal.com/Anyuta_73.html)
http://www.partnervermittlung-ukraine.net/damen/inserat/15348/Anna.html (http://www.partnervermittlung-ukraine.net/damen/inserat/15348/Anna.html)....
not exhaustive list
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I confess my ignorance: what means AFA? :(
A Foreign Affair, http://loveme.com/
Profile # 117179
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http://www.ukreine.com/girls/1204/ (http://www.ukreine.com/girls/1204/)
http://www.rupersonal.com/Anyuta_73.html (http://www.rupersonal.com/Anyuta_73.html)
http://www.partnervermittlung-ukraine.net/damen/inserat/15348/Anna.html (http://www.partnervermittlung-ukraine.net/damen/inserat/15348/Anna.html)....
not exhaustive list
She's 43 and has a 4.4 rating with 537 votes on rupersonal :ROFL:
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Screaming red flag for me: she's supposedly a lawyer, but with only a high school education (according to her rupersonal profile).
Run, Forrest, run!
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http://www.ukreine.com/girls/1204/ (http://www.ukreine.com/girls/1204/)
http://www.rupersonal.com/Anyuta_73.html (http://www.rupersonal.com/Anyuta_73.html)
http://www.partnervermittlung-ukraine.net/damen/inserat/15348/Anna.html (http://www.partnervermittlung-ukraine.net/damen/inserat/15348/Anna.html)....
not exhaustive list
WTF She is an ugly woman !! Who would want to marry her ?!!!
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Screaming red flag for me: she's supposedly a lawyer, but with only a high school education (according to her rupersonal profile).
Run, Forrest, run!
She was a furniture sales girl when I met her, then phone sales for a bottled water company. She is no lawyer. I have been told that she is working as a translator for an agency in Kharkov.
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All women who are wanting to get BEFORE the marriage a big amount of money, 50 grands in Ukraine is a LOT of money, should raise a VERY HIGH RED FLAG.
Especially when those women are already old.
For me it means that they have already hitted you financially, let me tell you this an other way : it means that you have allowed them to have some financial benefits from the relationship.
With this type of vamp, if you don't know how to say NO from the scratch, it ends badly.
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WTF She is an ugly woman !! Who would want to marry her ?!!!
100% Agreed. :clapping:
Not only that, she is also ageing. :thumbsdown:
Check out these evil ugly frauds (currently and previously) on AD
http://scamvictimsunited.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4963
:rolleyes: :barf:
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Not only that, she is also ageing.
Best to find a woman (man) who will not age.
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Best to find a woman (man) who will not age.
Doesn't know that women lose sexual market value as they age. Men gain value. :usd: :usd: :usd:
Women in their 30's should raise flags in most cases.
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I confess my ignorance: what means AFA? :(
Probably A Foreign Affair [dating site]
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Women in their 30's should raise flags in most cases.
Why? That's years younger than the average male seeking a bride in the FSU! There are as many reasons for them being single and looking as there are men looking.
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Women in their 30's should raise flags in most cases.
I have news for you.... As I get older ....I was more interested in women in their forties and see beauty in 50 yr olds..))
What are these 'red flags' us 'ol gits need to be aware of ?!
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Women in their 30's should raise flags in most cases.
They certainly raised my flag plenty of times.
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I have news for you.... As I get older ....I was more interested in women in their forties and see beauty in 50 yr olds..))
What are these 'red flags' us 'ol gits need to be aware of ?!
He hasn't disclosed his age, and doesn't answer many questions, he seems
determined to find a virgin. Personally, I have always been more interested
in a woman who knows what she's doing, but that's me.
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He hasn't disclosed his age, and doesn't answer many questions, he seems
determined to find a virgin. Personally, I have always been more interested
in a woman who knows what she's doing, but that's me.
I'm with ya on that, virgins are overrated.
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I'm with ya on that, virgins are overrated.
I had sex with a virgin once, and I said
"If I had known you were a virgin I would have taken more time"
She said
"If you had taken more time, I would have removed my pantyhose"
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I had sex with a virgin once, and I said
"If I had known you were a virgin I would have taken more time"
She said
"If you had taken more time, I would have removed my pantyhose"
I like it !! :-) The humor that is.
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He hasn't disclosed his age, and doesn't answer many questions, he seems
determined to find a virgin. Personally, I have always been more interested
in a woman who knows what she's doing, but that's me.
Aha,
Thx for the heads up
One of those young 'experts' who has never got on the plane and 'been looking', eh ?
Nuff said
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Best to find a woman (man) who will not age.
Mannequins :)
Advantage of having mannequins.
1) They stay beautiful forever (Wishmaster part 1 film showed us)
2) They don't argue with you
3) Everything you say or do is always right without her approval or say
4) They don't need your money to spend on luxury handbags!
5) She can be replaced with a new, fancy mannequin when you want
Disadvantage...
1) No sex unless you buy expensive 'real doll' LOL
2) Not very good company for you when you need her
3) Too cold to sleep with in any cold nights especially if you plan to live in Siberia lol
4) Cannot cook, clean, washing, ironing, or any other domestic work
5) Too risky to kill her :)
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GQ, I don't doubt in the least it is factual. After reviewing her new profile and seeing the pics it is clear to me she is "working". That doesn't mean she didn't have some feelings for GB. She spent time with him, had sex with him, laughed and whatever.. until she tried to implement the "money shot" of her evil plan. Without hearing her excuses/story there is no way to know just how calculating she actually was from the beginning. But, one thing I do know about people is when they feel guilt they will often make fun of the person they wronged in a feeble attempt to clear their own sour heart. Believe me, I am not making excuses for her. I wouldn't be willing to bait her if I thought she had even an ounce of innocence. And trust me.. by the time I get done with her.. she will be scared to try her games again.
I hate to say this but a woman with good moral character wouldn't sleep with a man before marriage.
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I hate to say this but a woman with good moral character wouldn't sleep with a man before marriage.
Same could be said about a woman with bad moral character and to top it off, she won't even sleep with her husband after marriage. How do you tell the difference between women who say they're saving it for their husband?
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I hate to say this but a woman with good moral character wouldn't sleep with a man before marriage.
A man with any brains would not believe -let alone post crap like that.
Where do these virgin hunting idiots come from ! :wallbash:
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A man with any brains would not believe -let alone post crap like that.
Where do these virgin hunting idiots come from ! :wallbash:
Agree.
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I hate to say this but a woman with good moral character wouldn't sleep with a man before marriage.
Then I suggest you not look in the FSU, unless you look in Georgia, Armenia, or the Muslim former republics. Because in the Slavic parts of the FSU, 99.99% of the women you meet will have slept with a man before marriage and therefore, for you, are morally suspect.
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I hate to say this but a woman with good moral character wouldn't sleep with a man before marriage.
Mike, if you are seeking a virgin bride, the FSU is not the place to look unless you have years to search. Virgins exist, yet they typically would insist on a long period of dating before agreeing to marriage. Exceptions exist.
If you are considering divorced women, my experience says most would never consider marriage unless they had been intimate with the man. Further, they might think something is wrong with you.
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Mike, if you are seeking a virgin bride, the FSU is not the place to look unless you have years to search. Virgins exist, yet they typically would insist on a long period of dating before agreeing to marriage. Exceptions exist.
If you are considering divorced women, my experience says most would never consider marriage unless they had been intimate with the man. Further, they might think something is wrong with you.
Good luck finding your virgin amongst all the deflowered maidens lacking in virtue! I suspect it will be like finding a needle in a haystack!
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Good luck finding your virgin amongst all the deflowered maidens lacking in virtue! I suspect it will be like finding a needle in a haystack!
I found the needle but most guys here wouldn't even consider woman under 25 mature enough for marriage.
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I found the needle but most guys here wouldn't even consider woman under 25 mature enough for marriage.
Did your sister check the bed sheets?
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Did your sister check the bed sheets?
Yes, it turned out to be 600 thread count Egyptian cotton.
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Yes, it turned out to be 600 thread count Egyptian cotton.
I like flannel sheets - - - all year around.
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Same could be said about a woman with bad moral character and to top it off, she won't even sleep with her husband after marriage. How do you tell the difference between women who say they're saving it for their husband?
Look at Western women. The female manipulation is something I know about. I'm not looking for a woman. Why would I marry and risk of ruining my life? The laws in Canada are against men. Obviously you have no idea what you're talking about. Nowhere did i imply I am looking for a virgin.
Why do you think some women withhold sex from their partner when they want something? lol
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I hate to say this but a woman with good moral character wouldn't sleep with a man before marriage.
So, if you aren't looking for a virgin, you are looking for someone who you believe has a bad moral character? I fear any relationship behind you could potentially have is doomed from the beginning with that kind of attitude.
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A women who sleeps with a guy the night they meet... just might likely go sleep with the next guy on the next night.
Also....
'Moral character' goes both ways.
'Know thyself'
....................Plato
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The female manipulation is something I know about. I'm not looking for a woman.
Attention all male member of RWD!
I suggest caution if Mike starts paying very close attention to you. ;) :D
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A women who sleeps with a guy the night they meet... just might likely go sleep with the next guy on the next night.
Also....
'Moral character' goes both ways.
'Know thyself'
....................Plato
Sleeping is pretty harmless.
Sex is another matter.
Not focused on this post, but . . . where did this stupid 'sleeping' word come from in the sexual meaning ?
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Sleeping is pretty harmless.
Sex is another matter.
Not focused on this post, but . . . where did this stupid 'sleeping' word come from in the sexual meaning ?
Probably from the same guy who decided that "going to the bathroom" sounded better than "going to the toilet."
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Look at Western women. The female manipulation is something I know about. I'm not looking for a woman. Why would I marry and risk of ruining my life? The laws in Canada are against men.
Less men are marrying in America because the laws for divorce are harder on them. No different here than there. Why are you writing RW if you're not looking for marriage or a woman? In another thread you asked about a woman who may be a scammer.
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Sleeping is pretty harmless.
Sex is another matter.
Not focused on this post, but . . . where did this stupid 'sleeping' word come from in the sexual meaning ?
In biblical times, all they had to do was lie together. ;D
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In biblical times, all they had to do was lie together. ;D
Hey...all they had to do was 'know' them and there you go :)
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Probably from the same guy who decided that "going to the bathroom" sounded better than "going to the toilet."
We go to the restroom around here.
In the Navy, the restroom is called the head.
Who thought up that one?
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In the Navy, the restroom is called the head. Who thought up that one?
I guess the Royal Navy, since the sailors' toilet was located at the bow of sailing ships - below, the two box-like things port and starboard:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Vasa-toilets-2.jpg/220px-Vasa-toilets-2.jpg)
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We go to the restroom around here.
To sleep together :D?
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I guess the Royal Navy, since the sailors' toilet was located at the bow of sailing ships - below, the two box-like things port and starboard:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Vasa-toilets-2.jpg/220px-Vasa-toilets-2.jpg)
Its where the term" using the head" comes from since they were located at the head of the ship. ;D
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Its where the term" using the head" comes from since they were located at the head of the ship. ;D
"Head of the ship" is not an accepted nautical term for that place, it could be confused with the ship's heading: "Quartermaster, mind your head!".
Alternatively, you could say they were located forrard (forward) of the fo'c's'le (forecastle) ;D.
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"Head of the ship" is not an accepted nautical term for that place, it could be confused with the ship's heading.
Alternatively, you could say they were located forrard (forward) of the fo'c's'le (forecastle) ;D.
No, it is not. In the US Navy, we referred to it as the bow or fore but the term "head" and many others are still in use even today. :)
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In the US Navy, we referred to it as the bow or fore but the term "head"
So you had "heads" in the head :D?
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Good someone resurrected this thread, it's actually good for seeing another direction a scam can come from even when you think you're on the path to a genuine marriage. Similar rules of due diligence seem to apply though which Good brew had skipped. Easy for a first time to do though, I should have done more a bit sooner first time around also. Red flags also somewhat similar. Helps to gain greater awareness posts like these I think.
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"Head of the ship" is not an accepted nautical term for that place, it could be confused with the ship's heading: "Quartermaster, mind your head!".
Mind my restroom ?! :o
the two box-like things port and starboard:
Pee all over the side of the ship? ::)
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Pee all over the side of the ship? ::)
Worse than that 8). Sluicing the sides with buckets of sea water periodically would abate the ripe aroma somewhat, but then belowdecks in a sailing ship was always rather 'fragrant' ;D. Only the ship's captain had his own, private "restroom" abaft, below through the open door at back centre in the cabin.
(http://donsmaps.com/images30/captainstable.jpg#ActualImage)
And rowing guard boats around the ship at anchor could be hazardous to the unwary :D:
(http://www.pirates-privateers.com/img/galleon-toilets-poulaine-pf.jpg#ActualImage)
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Pee all over the side of the ship? ::)
Pretty normal when out on a boat in rough seas even today. Just hose the deck off.
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Anna Savich aka Anna Marchenko
Kharkov, Ukraine
I was a dupe. I was a лох. Here is what happened.
Anna and I were scheduled to be married on June 27 in Kharkov. We were to leave for a honeymoon in Belek, Turkey the day after our wedding. Two weeks prior to our wedding Anna drops a bomb on me. She wants a marriage contract. This is not the first that I have heard of the Russian/Ukrainian version of a prenuptial agreement. Given the short amount of notice that I had about this agreement I seriously doubt that it would hold up in court. Of course I declined to sign such an agreement. It sounded like a bonanza for a Green Card Girl. She claimed that someone at the car rental place brought this to her attention. I now know this to be a lie. A payout of $50,000 US was mentioned which caused me to let loose with derisive laughter. She said that the lawyer brought up that amount. Since she refused to get married without the contract the wedding was canceled. This was just the beginning of a painful lesson.
Sorry to hear this, but honestly a Marriage Contract is not a terrible idea.
Granted it should be drafted by you with the stipulation that both parties agree to leave amicably if it becomes that bad, with no exchange of assets, no alimony or support for kids that are not yours.
- Family court in America is a damned joke, there is no tangible judicial oversight. The organization in alleged to be in charge of judicial oversight is staffed by relatives of judges or other individuals who have financial incentives to not crack down upon rogue judges.
- Additional Factoid, many of the constitutional protections granted to US citizens do not apply in family court (speedy trial, free speech, legal representation etc)
I may be naive and in the minority but if a woman loves you enough to marry you, she's going to have no interested in your bank account. If that is not the case anymore then people like my parents are a dying breed.
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Sorry to hear this, but honestly a Marriage Contract is not a terrible idea.
Granted it should be drafted by you with the stipulation that both parties agree to leave amicably if it becomes that bad, with no exchange of assets, no alimony or support for kids that are not yours.
- Family court in America is a damned joke, there is no tangible judicial oversight. The organization in alleged to be in charge of judicial oversight is staffed by relatives of judges or other individuals who have financial incentives to not crack down upon rogue judges.
- Additional Factoid, many of the constitutional protections granted to US citizens do not apply in family court (speedy trial, free speech, legal representation etc)
I may be naive and in the minority but if a woman loves you enough to marry you, she's going to have no interested in your bank account. If that is not the case anymore then people like my parents are a dying breed.
I have heard this is not the case with Ukrainian women.
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I have heard this is not the case with Ukrainian women.
She said that the lawyer brought up that amount.
So then....marry the lawyer :popcorn:
People are people the world over.
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I have heard this is not the case with Ukrainian women.
Your signature is inaccurate. I never stated that.
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Your signature is inaccurate. I never stated that.
It is also inappropriate please remove it.
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I guess the Royal Navy, since the sailors' toilet was located at the bow of sailing ships - below, the two box-like things port and starboard:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/80/Vasa-toilets-2.jpg/220px-Vasa-toilets-2.jpg)
I was 4 years in US Navy. I never encountered anyone with a rectangular butt !!
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Worse than that 8). Sluicing the sides with buckets of sea water periodically would abate the ripe aroma somewhat, but then belowdecks in a sailing ship was always rather 'fragrant' ;D. Only the ship's captain had his own, private "restroom" abaft, below through the open door at back centre in the cabin.
Ah, the stern of the Ship. In French, that is 'la poupe', which gave rise to the term, 'poop deck'. Although named for different reasons, I'm sure.
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Nautical terms are fascinating for their quaintness and varied origin. Take for instance those designating the sides of a ship:
The term starboard derives from the Old English steorbord, meaning the side on which the ship is steered. Before ships had rudders on their centrelines, they were steered with a steering oar at the stern of the ship.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Tapisserie_bato1.jpg/260px-Tapisserie_bato1.jpg)
Since the steering oar was on the right side of the boat, it would tie up at wharf on the other side. Hence the left side was called port. Formerly, larboard was used instead of port. This is from Middle-English ladebord and the term lade is related to the modern load.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_and_starboard
The side steering board goes back to the origins of navigation:
(http://atlantablackstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Egyptian-Ships.jpg#ActualImage) (http://exploration.marinersmuseum.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2014/04/Phoenician_ship.jpg#ActualImage) (http://cornucopia3d.e-oncontent.com/storeItems/Objects/Vehicles/Aquatic/Ancient_Greek_Trireme_Obj_83_0_img.jpg#ActualImage)(http://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/15/56/b8/1556b8d2310cdbb32a6121ee25a093de.jpg#ActualImage)
Egyptian - Phoenician - Greek - Roman
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It is also inappropriate please remove it.
Bounder will have to remove it.
Bounder, both RW and UW come from the same Soviet culture. There are really no differences between them, although Russians, for the most part, have more financial stability/security. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying, and anyone who believes it is a fool.
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I would suggest learning the Dutch language, it would help when one needs to "lay out a stern line". Schooner and yawl are from Dutch to describe different rigs. As is sloop and spinnaker. "Begrijp je dat"
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I would suggest learning the Dutch language, it would help when one needs to "lay out a stern line". Schooner and yawl are from Dutch to describe different rigs. As is sloop and spinnaker. "Begrijp je dat"
While I agree that many English nautical terms have a Dutch etymology - some an even older Germanic one - I submit it's not worth the effort ;), considering the help one may get from the Internet if necessary.
BTW, my Nautical Glossary (http://www.floriani.it/NauticalGlossary-eng.htm) is now finished: 350 nautical terms, 290 of which illustrated. You'll probably find other terms of Dutch origin there :D.
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I was 4 years in US Navy. I never encountered anyone with a rectangular butt !!
That's the jar heads you were thinking about. ;)
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While I agree that many English nautical terms have a Dutch etymology - . . . I submit it's not worth the effort ;), . . . .
When my wife hears me speaking Dutch she has a hard time not laughing. In private she said Dutch sounds like a farmer with hot potatoes in his mouth who has a tooth ache.
When sailing together asking to trim a line results in her adjusting her bikini. 'Ready about' means she needs sun screen on the other side.