The Propaganda War

[lordtiberius]

I agree sadly

[Muzh]

I dunno, Putin has a pretty strong arm of support in Siberia right now from what I can see but, I'll be the first to admit I only see the surface. Many of my old friends there would echo Doll and Belvis. Things do seem to be getting progressively worse but, they don't seem to be making the connection

I said it before, just because the polls show 80% of the people supporting Putler doesn't mean that 80% likes him. Also, remember that the referendum in Ukraine passed with 114% yea votes.

[BillyB]

I said it before, just because the polls show 80% of the people supporting Putler doesn't mean that 80% likes him. Also, remember that the referendum in Ukraine passed with 114% yea votes.

There's been some independent polling from the West and they've got Putin up 80%. Obama is at 40% and American's aren't near thinking revolution so Putin has quite a cushion to play with. Politically, he's in a very good spot.

[Muzh]

There's been some independent polling from the West and they've got Putin up 80%. Obama is at 40% and American's aren't near thinking revolution so Putin has quite a cushion to play with. Politically, he's in a very good spot.

[Faux Pas]

I said it before, just because the polls show 80% of the people supporting Putler doesn't mean that 80% likes him. Also, remember that the referendum in Ukraine passed with 114% yea votes.

I can say this, I know a few folks in Siberia that despise Putin and his actions privately but they would never make that declaration publicly. I also know some that act indifferent but they are not. They're just being safe. My own MIL truly one of the sweetest women I have ever known and is not well versed on world events but, will support the Putin machine because she's Russian. She would never say anything against Putin or Moscow, ever.

[lordtiberius]

I agree.  It is wishful thinking to say otherwise.

[lordtiberius]

A list of top 20 Russian propagandists

http://goupillon.wordpress.com/2015/01/19/who-can-you-trust/

[AC]

There's been some independent polling from the West and they've got Putin up 80%. Obama is at 40% and American's aren't near thinking revolution so Putin has quite a cushion to play with. Politically, he's in a very good spot.

Link please?  I've said it before and I will say it again -- my personal guess is that Putin's real popularity is about 60%.  The other 40% have finally woken up smelled the coffee and realize their country is going in the wrong direction. 

[jone]

Link please?  I've said it before and I will say it again -- my personal guess is that Putin's real popularity is about 60%.  The other 40% have finally woken up smelled the coffee and realize their country is going in the wrong direction.

Pretty easy link to find.  Quite common knowledge.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2014/11/14/love-him-or-hate-him-vladimir-putins-poll-numbers-have-never-been-higher/

As for Obummer, I'd say his numbers are around 45% right now after the State of the Union.

[calmissile]

I can say this, I know a few folks in Siberia that despise Putin and his actions privately but they would never make that declaration publicly. I also know some that act indifferent but they are not. They're just being safe. My own MIL truly one of the sweetest women I have ever known and is not well versed on world events but, will support the Putin machine because she's Russian. She would never say anything against Putin or Moscow, ever.

The same situation in Ukraine prior to Yuno being thrown out.  Unless you are pretty close to someone they will not discuss politics or their views.  Carryover from the Soviet days when neighbors reported each other to the authorities.

[BillyB]

Link please?  I've said it before and I will say it again -- my personal guess is that Putin's real popularity is about 60%.  The other 40% have finally woken up smelled the coffee and realize their country is going in the wrong direction.

Putin's Russia isn't Stalin's USSR. People are freer to speak their mind as long as they don't put it in print. There may be a certain fear factor when a pollster calls citizens who may suspect it's the FSB calling them. Good poll companies take that into account and will minimize the fear factor so they could get accurate data.


Jone provided poll numbers from a respected source. Here is another source below. Notice how Putin's numbers were down at 54% in 2013 and has taken about a 30% jump since he took Crimea and engaging Ukraine. At least 46% did not approve of Putin in 2013 and most of them changed their mind. Putin's popularity has risen and that is no illusion.


What is more scary is the amount of hate Russians have for America and the EU now. America is at 4% and EU at 6%. Why did a madman like Hitler get so much support? Because Europe made Germans pay war reparations after WW1 and hurt the quality of their life. Russians hate the sanctions we applied on their nation and their anger is directed at us, not Putin. This could get dangerous since most Russians would support Putin if he decides hurt those living in the West.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/173597/russian-approval-putin-soars-highest-level-years.aspx

[AC]

Pretty easy link to find.  Quite common knowledge.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markadomanis/2014/11/14/love-him-or-hate-him-vladimir-putins-poll-numbers-have-never-been-higher/

As for Obummer, I'd say his numbers are around 45% right now after the State of the Union.

Hmmm...and I thought you were an Obama fan. 

[JayH]

I can say this, I know a few folks in Siberia that despise Putin and his actions privately but they would never make that declaration publicly. I also know some that act indifferent but they are not. They're just being safe. My own MIL truly one of the sweetest women I have ever known and is not well versed on world events but, will support the Putin machine because she's Russian. She would never say anything against Putin or Moscow, ever.

The same situation in Ukraine prior to Yuno being thrown out.  Unless you are pretty close to someone they will not discuss politics or their views.  Carryover from the Soviet days when neighbors reported each other to the authorities.

Exactly my thoughts Doug when I read FP comments.
As an observation--- that category of citizen is remote from the coal face of reform--that will come from the intelligentsia of more sophisticated big cities  and if conceptually "correct" will spread from there. Polls of popularity will never reflect radical reforms until they have much wider acceptance.
eg in Ukraine--   far more came to accept Maidan  after the events were clear than were prepared to say so at the time. so anecdotal stories confirm some points-- it adds nothing to a debate about real support levels.
When push comes to shove in Russia--what the people think at large will not be the factor that matters  in change in Russia.

[fathertime]

Here is a case where the local Ukrainian's are angry with the Ukrainian army and presumably sympathetic to the separatists.


http://news.yahoo.com/father-buries-4-old-son-curses-ukraines-war-141947336.html;_ylt=AwrTHRfPf8BU8D8A2JxXNyoA


It could be that Europe is reluctant to involve itself in a situation where some of the populace would be against them....so it continues to remain an issue between Ukraine and Russia.


Fathertime!   

[AC]

Here is a case where the local Ukrainian's are angry with the Ukrainian army and presumably sympathetic to the separatists.


http://news.yahoo.com/father-buries-4-old-son-curses-ukraines-war-141947336.html;_ylt=AwrTHRfPf8BU8D8A2JxXNyoA


It could be that Europe is reluctant to involve itself in a situation where some of the populace would be against them....so it continues to remain an issue between Ukraine and Russia.


Fathertime!

This isn't really news.  Just more dirty tricks thought up by Putin's FSB/GRU machine.  The "separatists" are pulling the same stunts that Hezbollah plays.  They embed in civilian's homes and hospitials and other civilian buildings, then fire their rockets at the Ukrainian forces.  When the Ukrainian forces return fire the "separatists" have left, but some civilians are killed.  Tragic yes, but totally the fault of Putler and his war criminals.

[lordtiberius]

Europe is a big place divided against itself with Central Europe favoring Russia, the Baltic's against, and most indifferent at best.  Who do you think Obama will pick for the Super Bowl?

[JayH]

This isn't really news.  Just more dirty tricks thought up by Putin's FSB/GRU machine.  The "separatists" are pulling the same stunts that Hezbollah plays.  They embed in civilian's homes and hospitials and other civilian buildings, then fire their rockets at the Ukrainian forces.  When the Ukrainian forces return fire the "separatists" have left, but some civilians are killed.  Tragic yes, but totally the fault of Putler and his war criminals.

Not only firing from residential areas--firing at them while disguised as Ukrainian army.There is no end to how disgusting this Russian scum are.

Military Russia invade Ukraine as "peacekeepers" under white flags

Russian soldiers cynically fired localities East Ukraine.



Soldiers sent to the territory of the Russian Federation under the guise of Donbass "peacekeeping force". This was an exclusive interview TSN.ua said Russian human rights activist and founder of "Cargo 200 from Ukraine to Russia" Elena Vasileva. She said that earlier Russian soldiers threw in Ukraine, giving it for training. Currently, according to her, the military RF throw in Donetsk and Luhansk region under white flags "peacekeeping force". See also: Putin thrown in Ukraine "gold reserves" - Russian human rights activist "Now this is not" training ". Rather, soldiers introduced as a" peacekeeping force ". A lot of it is my report. Servicemen forced to attach to the form of white ribbons and even hang white flags on the tanks that are outright cynicism when tank white flag goes and shoots on some locality, "- said Vasiliev.
Більше читайте тут: http://tsn.ua/politika/viyskovi-rf-vtorgayutsya-v-ukrayinu-yak-mirotvorci-pid-bilimi-praporami-pravozahisnicya-404297.html

[JayH]

 Human shield tactics; Russian-backed insurgents allegedly firing grad rockets from residential areas (VIDEO)

These grad rocket attacks seen here in unverified footage uploaded to a social media website are allegedly being fired from residential areas of Donetsk in East Ukraine.

Further evidence Ukraine says, that Russia's proxy army is once again using human shield tactics in its effort to seize more Ukrainian land by force.

http://www.kyivpost.com/multimedia/video-2/ukraine-today-human-shield-tactics-russian-backed-insurgents-allegedly-firing-grad-rockets-from-residential-areas-video-377705.html

[AC]

Human shield tactics; Russian-backed insurgents allegedly firing grad rockets from residential areas (VIDEO)

These grad rocket attacks seen here in unverified footage uploaded to a social media website are allegedly being fired from residential areas of Donetsk in East Ukraine.

Further evidence Ukraine says, that Russia's proxy army is once again using human shield tactics in its effort to seize more Ukrainian land by force.

http://www.kyivpost.com/multimedia/video-2/ukraine-today-human-shield-tactics-russian-backed-insurgents-allegedly-firing-grad-rockets-from-residential-areas-video-377705.html

I know it might seem like pie in the sky thinking right now but I really do hope someday that certain high ranking Russian officials are prosecuted for war crimes, just like Slob Milosovich was.

[BillyB]

I know it might seem like pie in the sky thinking right now but I really do hope someday that certain high ranking Russian officials are prosecuted for war crimes, just like Slob Milosovich was.

I have a feeling Obama will offer Russia cash and assets to curb their bad behavior. Threatening jail is out of the question. If he's giving Iran billions before the nuke talks even end, he may have to offer Russia trillions to back off.


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/01/21/us-to-award-iran-11-billion-through-end-nuke-talks/?intcmp=latestnews

[lordtiberius]

Blackmail money.  So glad we destroyed most of our nukes . . .

[jone]

Hmmm...and I thought you were an Obama fan.

Nope.  Voted for the other guy.  Twice. (Even though it was painful to vote for McCain.)  I am an independent who leans Republican.  I think the far right is in cloud cuckoo land.

[lordtiberius]

Yeah. Koo Koo land.. ..

[mendeleyev]

I am an independent who leans Republican.

Independent also, leaning Libertarian. I like to tell opponents on both sides of the aisle that "I am not stupid enough to be a democrat and too smart to be a republican."


The bright side of the story is that Westerners have choices like this. In Russia today, to vocally oppose the Kremlin is to play with real danger.

[lordtiberius]

Plenty of blame to go round for the mess we are in though most it is on the Democrats and their allies in the established GOP.