Men's Appearance

[Shostakovich]

Restaurants/bars/hotels, etc. are not "social settings", and are probably not the greatest places to seek a long term relationship.


Actually they are "social settings", but point taken - so add churches, grocery stores, fitness centers, and your office - doesn't matter, the priority list doesn't change...  It's simply human nature and the default screening process (consciously or not) most all women use (well hopefully not  the watch and shoes for church or gyms, but...).  Pretty much the same for men - just substitute for #2 "Body Type".

If you are still waiting for someone to admire you for your "personality" and not care about the extra 50+ pounds or the sloppy appearance - hunker down my friend - you are in for a long wait.

Better watch out, your might get what you pay for.  You think a woman who evaluates a man by watches and shoes is clued into what makes a relationship work?

[Lily]

Funny too how so may women experts actually pay for email contacts just to get dates, eh?

Men do pay for email contacts, why women shouldn't?

[Boethius]

<i>Most</i> AW women don't pay attention to watches and shoes when they are looking for a mate.   

You obviously have looked in the wrong places for a mate, and your attitude probably plays a role as well. 

This came across harsher than I meant, spectris, and I apologize for that.  What I meant was that if such superficial things matter to you in your search, or if you are looking for a woman for whom your watch and clothing are important, or if you look in the wrong places, you will find what you expect.

I will tell you what women universally are drawn to, and that is confidence.  You don't even have to have confidence, you just have to project it.  An ability to make a woman laugh will go a long way too. 

[spectris]

No apology necessary (but thank you). 

And for the record, it's not "my" superficial search (I look for the smile, the hair, and then the body type - in that order) – I was speaking of what AW look for.  My point was that you may have the best personality, most confidence and awesome intentions, but it won't matter if you don’t pass the initial "sniff" test.  For example, one of my companies sells the very best 12V battery charger ever made (seriously - we have 100’s of testimonials, tests, endorsements, etc.), yet we struggle selling them.  Why – because you have to look past the expectation to see the miracle of it and 99% of our prospective customers won’t make the effort <sigh>.  Thankfully 1% do right?   In business, I believe you have to deal with the realities of the marketplace and in a personal life; men after the age of 40-45 have to as well whether it should be so or not.  I suspect that is why many of the men are on this board seeking advice and asking questions? 

In a normal week I routinely meet several women and have many very good female friends (but all are 35+ -- so I can’t speak for younger ones, they only get my fatherly advice) and they universally agree on this point.  Unless you are Brad Pitt-like (or Sean Connery-like whatever that is :>), you will be noticed for  #1 overall looks (which is variable depending on that specific woman of course), and #2 your watch (doesn’t have to be a Rolex – just something you put thought into) and your shoes (appropriate for the occasion?  Shined?  Tied?  Clean?) - argue if you want, but it's the truth - and why not?  In an initial casual meeting what is a woman supposed to look for?   When pressed, all agree these are stupid differentiators, but in an initial personal meeting (or trying to sell yourself online) – you have to deal with reality.

Honestly, I have very little to contribute about dating women from the FSU – my first trip is in a couple of weeks so I’m sure I will have more perspective afterwards, but now I have nothing.  On the other hand, I have a lifetime of experience dating / marrying AW which seems to be a real void on this board… 

All this wisdom cost me a new watch a couple of years ago – yet, I’m here too…

[Ade]

Unless you are Brad Pitt-like (or Sean Connery-like whatever that is :>), you will be noticed for  #1 overall looks (which is variable depending on that specific woman of course), and #2 your watch (doesn’t have to be a Rolex – just something you put thought into) and your shoes (appropriate for the occasion?  Shined?  Tied?  Clean?) - argue if you want, but it's the truth - and why not?  In an initial casual meeting what is a woman supposed to look for?   When pressed, all agree these are stupid differentiators, but in an initial personal meeting (or trying to sell yourself online) – you have to deal with reality.

As I don't wear a watch and never shine my shoes it's damn lucky that I look like Brad Pitt then.

But seriously, I thought women were first attracted to eyes, smile, and hands. Beyond being clean, the clothes/watch/shoes thing was a secondary preference and not a deal breaker.

PS. I really like the not-too-subtle "look at my watch" pose in the avatar picture.

[GQBlues]

Well, there you go. That may well be the very best dating advice to date...

If and when you find the need or want to date AWs on either Match / eHarmony et al....best to take a nice photo of your watch and a pair of shoes as your online photo. Then just wait for the emails to come pouring in.

Spectris, just having fun with you. But curious, if this in fact is true, is it really that tough to find a good watch and a nice pair of shoes where you live?

[Boethius]

Yes, I think most women are attracted first to a man's eyes.  However, everything is subjective.  I have a girlfriend who has always been attracted only to large men - over 6', with large frames (chunky).  Another liked men with body builder physiques.  Yet another liked men who were thin, compact like say, a Johnny Depp physique.  Most often, though, once you get beyond superficial physical attraction, it is personality that keeps a woman interested, and that, too, is very subjective.

I have never known a woman who was concerned with a man's watch or shoes, though I have known women who were more interested in a man's bank account than him, but I don't ever recall a woman discussing any of this, including the bank accounts, when talking about her man.  But, you guys probably don't want to know what women say about their men.

[Ade]

Yes, I think most women are attracted first to a man's eyes.  However, everything is subjective.  I have a girlfriend who has always only attracted to large men - over 6', with large frames (chunky).  Another liked men with body builder physiques.  Yet another liked men who were thin, compact like say, a Johnny Depp physique.  Most often, though, once you get beyond superficial physical attraction, it is personality that keeps a woman interested, and that, too, is very subjective.

I have never known a woman who was concerned with a man's watch or shoes, though I have known women who were more interested in a man's bank account than him, but I don't ever recall a woman discussing any of this, including the bank accounts, when talking about their men.  But, you guys probably don't want to know what women say about their men.

Our egos are easily bruised so we prefer to think that we are demi-gods in their eyes that can do no wrong.

[Misha]

I have never known a woman who was concerned with a man's watch or shoes

Many Russian women tend to look at shoes. Shoes are seen as a reflection of the man: if they are dirty and he does not take care of them, it is assumed that he is sloppy, unkempt, not very well organized. His shoes are seen as a reflection of his character. 

[Shostakovich]

But, you guys probably don't want to know what women say about their men.

No-no.  Bring it on, I'm always interested in these perspectives. 

[Boethius]

Many Russian women tend to look at shoes. Shoes are seen as a reflection of the man: if they are dirty and he does not take care of them, it is assumed that he is sloppy, unkempt, not very well organized. His shoes are seen as a reflection of his character. 

I don't think we're discussing whether or not shoes are polished (which would be a given) but rather, is he wearing sneakers vs Bruno Maglis.

No-no.  Bring it on, I'm always interested in these perspectives.

Hmm, perhaps SJ is correct.  Better to live in illusions.  But, I'll think about it.  I will say that generally, the way married women and single women talk (I mean serious relationships) about their men differs.

[Shostakovich]

Hmm, perhaps SJ is correct.  Better to live in illusions.  But, I'll think about it.  I will say that generally, the way married women and single women talk (I mean serious relationships) about their men differs.

Married people in general speak differently about their spouses than singles do of their girlfriends/boyfriends.  As for your comment about illusions, I'd like to remind you and everyone here of the words of the great Fichte: "The truth be told yet the world crumble".  Give me girl secrets now!

[GQBlues]

Many Russian women tend to look at shoes.

Hhhmmm...maybe that explains the social structure in Russia.

Shoes are seen as a reflection of the man: if they are dirty and he does not take care of them, it is assumed that he is sloppy, unkempt, not very well organized. His shoes are seen as a reflection of his character.

Pickle. What if he had a really, really nice watch on? As for reflection of character, the supposition will be that Ted Bundy would've been iconic in Russia.

[Misha]

Hhhmmm...maybe that explains the social structure in Russia.

It also explains why Russian men are constantly cleaning their shoes  There is a reason why those little shoe brushes/sponges can be bought on virtually every street corner  :evil: Though, my wife did tell me that she dated me in spite of my shoes 

[BC]

With all this talk about shoes, can we now interpret that what's important to a RW lies below the beltline?

[Lily]

It also explains why Russian men are constantly cleaning their shoes  There is a reason why those little shoe brushes/sponges can be bought on virtually every street corner  :evil: Though, my wife did tell me that she dated me in spite of my shoes 

Misha, people have to often get these sponges and brushes to clean their shoes because Russian streets are famous for incredible amounts of dirt and dust in every time of year. Every walk out the door is able to transform your black shoes into grey ones

[Misha]

Misha, people have to often get these sponges and brushes to clean their shoes because Russian streets are famous for incredible amounts of dirt and dust in every time of year. Every walk out the door is able to transform your black shoes into grey ones

I know which is why it is easy to judge a man based on how much care he puts into keeping his shoes clean in spite of the dust and dirt as you certainly know

[spectris]

"Spectris, just having fun with you. But curious, if this in fact is true, is it really that tough to find a good watch and a nice pair of shoes where you live?"


No problem, I'm having a little fun here myself - but I speak the truth.  And I have many nice shoes and several nice wathes (one of which is REAL).  I am leaving for Hong Kong tomorrow so if anyone wants me to pick up a "nice watch" I can absolutely get you a good deal!

Alas, I hope this volcanic ash doesn't disrupt my flights to Europe in a couple of weeks.

[2tallbill]

I thought I would bump this topic up a bit.

This came across harsher than I meant, spectris, and I apologize for that.  What I meant was that if such superficial things matter to you in your search, or if you are looking for a woman for whom your watch and clothing are important, or if you look in the wrong places, you will find what you expect.

I will tell you what women universally are drawn to, and that is confidence.  You don't even have to have confidence, you just have to project it.  An ability to make a woman laugh will go a long way too.

If you use money as bait don't be surprised if you catch gold diggers~ Quote paraphrased from a departed
former member here.

[Trenchcoat]

Dave, I don't think that I even know what things you are talking about

It is not important what is on. It is important WHO wears it.

I mean, a right person may wear anything and still be sexy for a woman. A guy however about who a woman does not feel right, may be a style icon but it doesn't help him.

Oh yes, almost forgot. His underwear must be clean

This is about right I think for both men & women, vice versa.

However, I think that attention to the other either heightens or lessens with how much effort is put for what is worn, hair, etc.

If a dude turns up looking like he is homeless, creased, dirty clothing, mangled overgrown hair, hasn't washed for a week or more, well the girl would probably still be attracted but a lot of that attraction could be overlooked in her eyes, same vice versa.

If the same dude turns up in a decent suit, good hygiene and a neat haircut then that attention will be boosted more than usual with that lady. Same for a lady if she wears a sexy dress or a nice crop top.

If there is no natural attraction there then it won't matter what the guy or girl wears beyond the other admiring them a bit for it if well dressed.

I think women will vary on what they like for body shape, most probably not too skinny or too overweight. For men probably much the same not too skinny or too overwhelmed but there are always the odd exceptions to that I think.

I also think there can be exceptions to stuff like tattoos, beards, moustaches and guys & girls that dress a bit edgy say leather jackets but still wear clean gear.


So to sum up it's best to go in as best you can to gain maximum attention from the right woman in case that woman overlooks you for another guy she feels attraction to who gains her attention by being well dressed, and vice versa.

[Trenchcoat]

A couple of clever, attractive, single AW told me that in the first minute or so of meeting a new man at a singles bars they will check out his shoes and his watch.

Now you know.  A man should buy high quality shoes anyway (for the same reason as a high quality mattress).  And keep them shined.

Lol, the hunting skills of a gold digging AW.

I get it though, us men mostly spend out money on a good shirt, trousers, suit, etc first and tend to focus heavily on that, possibly even pay a bit more than average for a haircut if hoping to impress

Shoes & watches are much lower down in our priority list and often overlooked. Watches might be better to not wear one than a cheap one as not so often worn nowadays. Shoes they know will separate a lot of men who don't really have big money from those that do, since most guys that don't have big money will get cheaper shoes to avoid them wearing out and losing money quicker as clothes tend to have greater longevity.

Most guys that are wealthy won't care and will buy good shoes anyway. I myself keep back my better shoes for dating and have some cheaper shoes for everyday use as I don't want to buy expensive shoes often.

I say most guys that are rich as I was on the train a few years ago and some woman on there was bemoaning to another about how a wealthy guy she knows wouldn't buy "nice shoes" as she put it but just cheap supermarket shoes. My guess is that he didn't want to encourage goldigging hoes as the one in question.

A smart move as who wants to be stuck with a woman who just wants them for their money, not a nice place to be. I think a guy can look decent wardrobe wise without going really expensive on clothes. Some expense is helpful as the quality and/or design of the clothing may be better but spending stupid money I don't think is needed unless just trying to hook such women for a one nighter.

[ML]

I wear a Timex watch that I bought for around $20 some 30 years ago.

Once a new business acquaintence commented on my good looking Rolex watch.

On one of my trips to Kharkiv, I took along another watch I had just purchased at Walmart for $20 or so.  But it looked quite nice, had a black background and a couple of extra dials for timer and something else.

I kept this watch on Eastern Standard time so that I could quickly see what time it was back home.

I just laid this watch in a straw basket that was near the front entrance.

Several of the gals who came to my apartment admired this watch and commented on it.

[ML]

From Boe

I will tell you what women universally are drawn to, and that is confidence.  You don't even have to have confidence, you just have to project it.  An ability to make a woman laugh will go a long way too.

- - - - - - - - - -

My sense of humor had undoubtedly helped me a lot with the gals.

A couple of FSU gals told me I was much better at humor than some of the  well known comedians.

[2tallbill]

Shoes they know will separate a lot of men who don't really have big money from those that do, since most guys that don't have big money will get cheaper shoes to avoid them wearing out and losing money quicker as clothes tend to have greater longevity.

Most guys that are wealthy won't care and will buy good shoes anyway. I myself keep back my better shoes for dating and have some cheaper shoes for everyday use as I don't want to buy expensive shoes often.

This isn't for Trench, this for the newbies/lurkers who can learn something.

Your feet take you everywhere you go. In the FSU, you walk everywhere. Don't think about style
over substance. Think about high quality walking shoes, break in your shoes or your shoes will
break in your feet. Put some powder in them, rotate your shoes, don't wear the same pair two
days in a row. Wear cushioned socks. Take care of your feet! Never buy cheap shoes or boots.
Give them a polish from time to time to protect them and they will last longer.

Get a mani-pedi, your socks will last longer and FSUW will notice your feet are soft, if you find
one who agrees to roll around naked with you. A cheapster won't spend money on this but they
don't get many roll arounds either.

I haven't worn a watch since pagers came out. To me a watch is one more thing to deal with. I
don't do stuff or wear stuff just to do it. I don't have earrings, a necklace, bracelets, pinkie rings
and so on. After getting married, I wear a wedding band. You do you, if you feel naked without
a watch and/or hate pulling your phone out to check the time, go ahead and get a watch that
you like.

[2tallbill]

Oh yes, almost forgot. His underwear must be clean

No underwear that isn't new goes into my suitcase. (I will wash it one time with downy)
and I put a dryer sheet or two in my suitcase. If things go well, somebody else will
wash them before going home.

Grizzled old bachelor in need of a woman is not what you want to be projecting here.
Cheap or sloppy old bachelor is worse.