2019 - nCoV (novel coronavirus originating in Wuhan, China)

[BC]

Trump had to ignore it. Obama allowed only the CDC to make test kits. Trump allowed States to hire private companies. Obama's plan wasn't suitable to handle the pathogen of the century which is predicted to show up once every century.

Already fully and completely debunked.

http://apnews.com/f4cd4c72e896d7fbd8ebd3516e864550

[2tallbill]

Oyez! Oyez! Oyez! 2Tall declares it is everybody else's fault!

The only problem with The Plan that was left by the prior administration is that this administration ignored it.

See posts on this way back somewhere...

Don't make yourself look rediculous 2Tall..

The facts changed on a daily basis, from China, from the CDC
and from the Trump administration which is full of Obama holdovers.

I'm not saying Trump is an Angel, or that he was right about everything
I am saying that nobody knew what was going on and EVERYBODY
switched every position at least twice.

You HATE Trump and couldn't find a bakery in Venice that sold a
stale loaf of bread without blaming it on Trump.   

[BC]

I'm not saying Trump is an Angel, or that he was right about everything
I am saying that nobody knew what was going on and EVERYBODY
switched every position at least twice.

The 'playbook' left by the prior administration covered pretty much all aspects of such events and is written in a general way in order to be easily adaptable as events progress. Have you read it?

You HATE Trump and couldn't find a bakery in Venice that sold a
stale loaf of bread without blaming it on Trump.

 

I don't hate Trump, but do hate what he is doing to our country.

[BillyB]

Already fully and completely debunked.

http://apnews.com/f4cd4c72e896d7fbd8ebd3516e864550

We've already been through this months ago but anti Trump media wants to rewrite history. Show me one governor that was allowed to pay a private lab to create test kits before Trump lifted restrictions. The Obama administration rewrote the book on how to handle pandemics after the 2009 swine flu. Obama had 6 more years to prepare to make sure we had the supplies and the means required to handle pandemics. How are the lack of preparedness and the rules in that book Trump's fault?

http://khn.org/news/cdc-coronavirus-testing-decision-likely-to-haunt-nation-for-months-to-come/

[BC]

How are the lack of preparedness and the rules in that book Trump's fault?

As I already stated, he did not follow the playbook.  Instead he was denying there was a problem, stating that testing was not needed anyway and that the virus would quickly pass.  The playbook steps start far earlier than that.  There was no element of surprise involved.

[GQBlues]

I don't hate Trump, but do hate what he is doing to our country.

Definitely a CNN narrative.

The best economic condition, lowest unemployment across the board, just to name a couple...I can't believe you hate seeing that happen in *my* country, but I'm cool with that.

[Gator]

The 'playbook' left by the prior administration covered pretty much all aspects of such events and is written in a general way in order to be easily adaptable as events progress. Have you read it?

Evidently you have.  Let's examine the pandemic as nonpartisan observers rather than look for ways to blame Trump.  Bush had his hand in this as well, so let's start there.

In 2005, officials at the United States Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) developed a Pandemic Influenza Plan to coordinate and improve efforts to prevent, control, and respond to A(H5N1) viruses as well as other novel influenza A viruses of animal (e.g. from birds or pigs) with pandemic potential. Although it is impossible to predict when the next pandemic will occur, United States government have developed three tools to guide national, state and local planning and response. These tools align with the World Health Organization’s (WHO) global framework of pandemic phases and risk assessment activities for preparedness, response, and recovery.

Pandemic Intervals Framework (PIF)
Influenza Risk Assessment Tool (IRAT)
Pandemic Severity Assessment Framework (PSAF)
National Pandemic Strategy Docu

 

These and followup preparation docs and programs from Obama led to the US being ranked highest in regard to 2019 Global Health Security Index.  Even though the US had the highest score, 83.5  (followed by UK at 77.9), the score was far from perfect.  Oddly, the top two countries were among the hardest hit by COVID-19. 

So something other than playbooks led to getting off to the bad start. I assert the bad start resulted from limited testing, limited PPE supplies, and limited resources at the state and local levels to perform contact tracing.  And these could have been prevented by following the playbook?    Please show me where the playbook had critical tasks that Trump's administration ignored.   

In looking back, I contend the pandemic could have been worse without the initiatives Trump has taken.  The two initiatives to rapidly increase testing capabilities and to augment hospital capacities in hot spots is certainly commendable.  I am most impressed by the initiative to develop and supply a vaccine on a fast track.   So take off your hypercritical, curmudgeon blinders and add some insight.

[Gator]

I don't hate Trump, but do hate what he is doing to our country.

Sure!

Unlike you and Trump, I wanted Obama to succeed, giving him the benefit of the doubt.  I commended him for not having any scandals, only to learn recently how treacherous he and his administration were.  I was disappointed in his inability to become a leader for the Black minority. 

If you don't hate Trump, why have you never applauded the President for what he has managed to accomplish?Surely something was a step forward for the US.   

[BillyB]

As I already stated, he did not follow the playbook. 

As I've said, Trump ignored the playbook on purpose because it was flawed. There isn't one expert on earth that has experience on how to deal with a pandemic at this level so you will see no playbook written that is perfect and you will see no leader handling this pandemic perfectly. There's going to be too much or too little on the shutdowns. Too much economic pain or too many deaths. There's always something to complain about. In trying to save a few more lives, we end up ending relevant life for all those who are living. As far as testing kits go, they are notoriously inaccurate.

[fathertime]

Let us await a non-partisan investigation after the pandemic has ended.  Until then, it is fruitless to debate given the advocacy that infects all news reporting. 

As of today, we still have no idea how and when this will end.

...and if the investigation bears sour fruit for you, it will be derided and denied.

Fathertime!

[fathertime]

Oyez! Oyez! Oyez! 2Tall declares it is everybody else's fault!

The only problem with The Plan that was left by the prior administration is that this administration ignored it.

See posts on this way back somewhere...

Don't make yourself look rediculous 2Tall..

You can count on him to try to protect trump and blame the 'evil liberals' at every turn.  This technique hasn't been working as well lately.

Fathertime! 

[BC]

 
These and followup preparation docs and programs from Obama led to the US being ranked highest in regard to 2019 Global Health Security Index.  Even though the US had the highest score, 83.5  (followed by UK at 77.9), the score was far from perfect.  Oddly, the top two countries were among the hardest hit by COVID-19. 

Not odd at all, leaders of both countries pooh-poohed the virus and it bit back, hard.

So something other than playbooks led to getting off to the bad start. I assert the bad start resulted from limited testing, limited PPE supplies, and limited resources at the state and local levels to perform contact tracing.  And these could have been prevented by following the playbook?    Please show me where the playbook had critical tasks that Trump's administration ignored.

 

Let's start with messaging from the CDC crisis handbook.  http://emergency.cdc.gov/cerc/ppt/CERC_Spokesperson.pdf.



Did the administration and other governmental organizations formulate, coordinate and promulgate consistent and factual messaging?

Follow that up with reviewing http://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/25/trump-coronavirus-national-security-council-149285

Keep in mind, and review actions proposed on certain events:

WHO declared a PHEIC on 30 Jan 2020

http://www.who.int/news-room/detail/30-01-2020-statement-on-the-second-meeting-of-the-international-health-regulations-(2005)-emergency-committee-regarding-the-outbreak-of-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)

CDC declared a public health emergency (PHE) 31 Jan 2020

http://www.hhs.gov/about/news/2020/01/31/secretary-azar-declares-public-health-emergency-us-2019-novel-coronavirus.html

In looking back, I contend the pandemic could have been worse without the initiatives Trump has taken.  The two initiatives to rapidly increase testing capabilities and to augment hospital capacities in hot spots is certainly commendable.  I am most impressed by the initiative to develop and supply a vaccine on a fast track.   So take off your hypercritical, curmudgeon blinders and add some insight.

Taking into account that a PHEIC and PHE were issued end of January, lets see what the leader of our country was telling the public after 31 January

http://www.washingtonpost.com/video/politics/18-times-trump-said-the-coronavirus-would-go-away/2020/04/30/d2593312-9593-4ec2-aff7-72c1438fca0e_video.html

Enough insight to chew on for the moment?

[BillyB]

China wasn't accurate or released info about the virus in a speedy manner. Trump still took action right after he found out human to human transmission was possible. He banned individuals that passed through China although WHO, CDC, and even Fauci all recommended against a travel ban. Trump was more right that the leading experts that write the playbooks. Trump later banned travel from Europe. He was the first or one of the first to do things that aren't written in the playbook. When it comes to most other matters, Fauci said Trump never went against his advice. Since America does more business with China than any other nation, we didn't fare too bad compared to Europe.

[BC]

Yeah, most flights were going to stop anyway, but he did stop whoever would still have been able to fly.  Guess some leftovers may have been prevented by his ban.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2020/01/31/coronavirus-china-flight-ban-delta-cuts-all-flights-white-house/4620989002/

In great part, his 'ban' was preempted by stewardesses, pilots and unions.

[Gator]

Taking into account that a PHEIC and PHE were issued end of January, lets see what the leader of our country was telling the public after 31 January

The Trump messages were mixed with such "hopeful" sentiment in combination with actions.  For example, you failed to list  Trump's clear and strong message of announcing simultaneous with the PHE severe restrictions on China travel,  so restrictive that Biden accused Trump of xenophobia. 

I agree, the President's leadership role is vital.  However, equally vital are the messages from governors because in the US fragmented healthcare system, state governments and local governments have responsibility for public health.  Yes, the same entities that have the freedom to create "sanctuary" regions in defiance of Trump's illegal immigration initiatives. 

Consider America's most impacted area:  the Democrat-led NY State and NYC.  In February after the PHE, NYC was giving messages even more hopeful than Trump's:

     -  From the City's health commissioner:   “We know that this virus can be transmitted from one individual to another, but that it is typically people who live together. There is no risk at this point in time…about having it being transmitted in casual contact.”

     -  Earlier in February, the Commissioner encouraged residents to attend the Lunar New Year parade in Chinatown.

    -  In March when the Mayor first wanted to lockdown the city, Governor Cuomo did not allow it, only to reverse his decision soon afterwards. 

Enough insight to chew on for the moment?

You still have not explained how Trump's actions (not just messages) were responsible for three key limitations in our Federal healthcare system that allowed faster spread of the virus in the US:

             -  limited testing,
             -  limited PPE supplies, and
             -  limited resources at the state and local levels to perform contact tracing.

In summary, all leaders, both Democrat and Republican, got caught flat footed.   Yet in your mind it is only Trump's fault.  Not only that, you continue to rationalize such with weak evidence when the facts show otherwise.  It reminds me  of the Democrat approach of grossly inflating a couple of unsubstantiated opinions to push the Russian collusion narrative.  Unlike it, however, this is no hoax and should receive our best, nonpolitical thinking going forward. 

Do you not have anything good to say about Trump and the pandemic?  Even Cuomo and Newsome publicly praised Trump for the prompt Federal help.   Consider that in deciding whether your Monday morning quarterback analysis is unbiased. 

This should not be about politics, but about stopping the spread of the virus.   

[BC]

Yet in your mind it is only Trump's fault.  Not only that, you continue to rationalize such with weak evidence when the facts show otherwise.

Gator,

I defer to the rotting fish theory.  Like you, I am not privy to every, or even some of the meetings held from the timelines and action points suggested in the Pandemic Playbook left behind by the previous administration which includes the three points you focused on.  We will, however, find out some time in the future.

In my book, the president of the United States should be setting the tone for both governmental bodies and state governors and not a cheerleader to pacify the nation in a time of crisis.  His message was somewhere between 'all over the place' and 'nowhere', aside from blaming yet again someone who left the Oval 3 years ago.  He should have done it by the playbook, appointed a qualified, knowledgable spokesperson and allowed the host of governmental organizations to do their job according to their op plans for such events.  Instead, he decided to take centre stage and as usual disseminate conflicting information and misinformation to be digested by the public and those whom he should lead.  It shows his mistrust, inability to delegate and self-serving nature we see over and over again.

I don't buy the cheerleader motivation to keep our hopes and spirits up, which is also contrary to the playbook.  A little fear would have done us all good early on.

[BC]

This should not be about politics, but about stopping the spread of the virus.

We have known for many months how to stop the spread of the virus.

[2tallbill]

I have no opinions of my own and I Hate America.
I still think that the Russians helped get Trump elected
and I haven't made one sensible comment or post in weeks.

Fathertime!

[BillyB]

In great part, his 'ban' was preempted by stewardesses, pilots and unions.

Trump wasn't just thinking about people working in the airline industry. He's thinking about protecting ALL America. His ban started earlier and was better than flights from China stopping. He banned all individuals who were in China. That mean a foreign national in China can't just drive or fly into Vietnam and then fly to America circumventing a ban on flights from China. Infectious disease experts advised Trump against it. Democrats ridiculed Trump for doing so and labeled him a racist. But they were more focused on impeachment. A virus wasn't on their radar.

[Gator]

We will, however, find out some time in the future.

Meanwhile, let's blame Trump.
 

  He should have done it by the playbook, appointed a qualified, knowledgable spokesperson and allowed the host of governmental organizations to do their job according to their op plans for such events. 

He appointed the VP to coordinate all Federal activities.   And what did the administration accomplish?  I could list the many accomplishments, yet you would ignore them all and still bitch.  Instead of acknowledging  the progress the administration made, you probably would write something such as:

Instead, he decided to take centre stage and as usual disseminate conflicting information and misinformation to be digested by the public and those whom he should lead.  It shows his mistrust, inability to delegate and self-serving nature we see over and over again.

Because you are outnumbered by conservatives in this forum, I will accept your focus on politics and style.  I would  prefer if you directed your talent and effort at a comprehensive analysis of medical developments, scientific data, and government accomplishments.   But that's just my preference.   

[Gator]

We have known for many months how to stop the spread of the virus.

I admit many Americans are too complacent, especially the young based on recent data.  OTOH,  some American are doing their part to stop the spread. 

[BC]

Gator,

In many ways, the result speaks for itself.

We could have levels around 1000 new infections per day by now, with an economy recovering from folks confident to go out and enjoying the beach this 4th of July.

Instead, we will settle for less, much less, for a longer time and higher price, both lives and pocketbook.

Few here will admit we screwed it up and continue to do so.

[BillyB]

Fauci says if a vaccine isn't very effective or not enough people take the vaccine, we won't achieve heard immunity. He also says no vaccine has ever been 100% effective.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/covid-19-vaccine-might-not-get-us-the-herd-immunity-if-too-many-people-refuse-to-get-it-fauci-says/ar-BB1659Qd?ocid=spartan-ntp-feeds

[Gator]

IMPLICATIONS OF CORONAVIRUS MUTATIONS

As with any virus, the SARS-CoV-2 is mutating and evolving.  Scripps Research has reported findings of a new strain with increased infectivity.   This could explain partly the rise in number of new cases. 

To review, the spikes on the virus give it the name "corona" and enable attaching to host cells.  Mutation since the first outbreak has yielded  a viral strain  with a more stable spike protein, better able to attach to and infect cells.

The overall effect is not fully understood, yet keep in mind that many but not all of the proposed vaccines are directed at disarming the spikes, rendering the virus less able to attach to host cells.    If the spikes are now more stable, such proposed vaccines could prove less effective, yet this needs to be researched further.   

On a positive note, it is quite possible that the mutation has yielded a virus with a lower fatality rate.   Via evolutionary selection, a strain that kills its host has smaller opportunity to be transmitted.    While an asymptomatic strain would have more opportunities to be transmitted.   

If interested, here's a June 12 news release from Scripps.

http://www.scripps.edu/news-and-events/press-room/2020/20200612-choe-farzan-coronavirus-spike-mutation.html



Here is a brief June 23 summary of what COVID-19 virus mutations could mean. 

http://theconversation.com/mutating-coronavirus-what-it-means-for-all-of-us-140209

[Gator]

Few here will admit we screwed it up and continue to do so.

Before crowing,  give us please progress reports on Italy's tourist revenues.   

If Italy's tourist season this summer is equivalent  to 2019 with a continuing low number of new cases, I will admit that America screwed it up.