Tver trip/agency report

[Serebro]

But my point is that this is not an absolute and reason must be applied by both parties..
Where conflict will appear is where one party forms a contrary opinion to the other.

As Hi Tech correctly pointed out it is a sorting of needs and wants. But both parties may not see something the same way.
For example, would you see it as equitable for a man to work two jobs to satisfy a woman's wants as well as her needs?

deccie, why do you measure everything with money only?! When you speak about WMVM/WOVO/WMVO methods you think about money you lose, here you think only about materialistic things also.
How about something else, how about devoting your life to a family and doing the things which are important to the family but not to you, like ignoring your own interests/hobbies/intentions/goals in life just because you are going to upbring children in a right way and please your husband?! And why do you think that a wife can't have 2 jobs to help her children go to a good private school/have a good college education or to make a big present to her husband he is dreaming of?!!!!!!
It' terrible to listen to your theories where you count  cents in "how much I give" and "how much I gain"...

[deccie]

deccie, why do you measure everything with money only?! When you speak about WMVM/WOVO/WMVO methods you think about money you lose, here you think only about materialistic things also.

Perhaps you should either get a refund on those english lessons or take some more?
Since I indicated one of the biggest "prices" I have paid is not being able to go and see my family.

How about something else, how about devoting your life to a family and doing the things which are important to the family but not to you, like ignoring your own interests/hobbies/intentions/goals in life 

Well, considering most of my stuff is in storage right now, and I am half way around the world from most of my family and friends I think that sort of qualifies as the situation I'm in don't you? ?!?!?!?!

And why do you think that a wife can't have 2 jobs to help her children go to a good private school/have a good college education or to make a big present to her husband he is dreaming of?!!!!!!
It' terrible to listen to your theories where you count  cents in "how much I give" and "how much I gain"...

Then you have misunderstood me completely. My point is, as most other speakers have also agreed is that marriage is about some form of balance. As bear himself pointed out this does not mean both parties give the same but it MUST be perceived by both that what each party gives has VALUE and contributes to the marriage/relationship/family. I don't beleive I have ever counted "cents" either. I am only doing an incredibly rough estimate based on some large ticket items I know I paid for. i am not sitting down counting receipts.

[Serebro]

Perhaps you should either get a refund on those english lessons or take some more?

Perhaps I should have chosen another language and another countries to look for the partner , since English-speakers seem to be ruder than most Russian men I have to deal with...

[Jazzyclassy]

Perhaps I should have chosen another language and another countries to look for the partner , since English-speakers seem to be ruder than most Russian men I have to deal with...

do not worry these men(not all in the forum,only  those who are especially rude ) are not the majority in the USA , there are people and people and it is not for me to tell you , you've been to America and know that there are some who are  respectful and appreciate women's oppinion

Once again Off topic they respect Lily's and Blue Fairy's opinion just cos they tell those men what they wanna hear , let it be so

We should all be happy that it is only just a forum and we will never see those people in reality so peace to everybody

[deccie]

Perhaps I should have chosen another language and another countries to look for the partner , since English-speakers seem to be ruder than most Russian men I have to deal with...

Do whatever floats your boat.

[Jazzyclassy]

To my mind Bear is a nice person with great moral values and I trully believe that WMVM trip wont really be successful for him, as he is not the type of guy who will suit such dating rules, I am sure he will find somebody genuine  sometimes soon , the main thing he should never give up his values and stick to his own point of view , well of course he can overview the other opinions but in the end of the days, those people who are advising him, are not in his skin  and they do not feel what he feels so everything will be great , just he should be  himself

[acrzybear]

Jazzy

Don't worry, I've had these values for over 30 years (I'm 38) and I'm to set in my ways to change them   As I've said numerous times I'm used to being single and if I die single then that's the way things were meant to be.  If I find the right lady and get married and and fortunate enough to have a family, that would be awesome and I would do everything I could to make sure I fullfilled my responsibilities.  Having a partner to share experiences and adventures with make life much more enjoyable, having a partner during hard/tough times makes you stronger and better equipped to deal with those times.

  I an not the smartest or the richest guy here on the board, but I am comfortable with who I am and I have no problems looking at this ugly mug in the mirror every morning (but only after 2 cups of coffee )

  As has been discussed in numerous other threads,WMVM works for some and not for others.  I don't feel it would work for me, I refuse to play the numbers game when it comes to a decision that's this important.  I will always remain faithful to myself and do what I am comfortable with.  If this makes me a fool in some folks eyes, then that's just something they'll have to deal with.

  Each person must find their own path to travel upon.

I told ya I was hard headed at times

[Jazzyclassy]

That is great Bear I enjoy your way of thinking

[Bruce]

Bear will meet a great Russian women for him some day, he will have a great family etc. - provided he does not give up.  Bear, I urge you to start planning your next trip.  In your case I also urge you to at least speak with Jack.

[acrzybear]

I'm just a poor civil servant , I doubt I could afford Jacks prices.  I also don't care for the whole social seen, reminds me of the bars and such here in the U.S.

   I tend to be a bit independent (you can ask Richard about that), the second day in Tver everyone was surprised when I walked into the office by myself.  They asked how I found the place and I mentioned that I had walked there with Richard the previous day, didn't think it was a big deal myself.

[Simoni]

if you are interested in communicative party girls I bet that WMVM is the best thing for you, don't you think so?! but make sure that the party girl doesn't have parties with someone else after your plane takes off... if it's ok with you I agree that you both have found each other.

We are very happy, Serebro.   Marina is not a party girl at all, in fact, after more than two years we have yet to go to a disco.  But we do enjoy theatre and the opera, and go almost weekly.

Tonight we are see the old standard Cabaret.   Marina knows it from having seen it in Ukraine and loved it.  She is looking forward to the high kickers!  Me, too :-)

[Mir]

Yes Bear it is best to go independent. Much more fun.

[KenC]

Yes Bear it is best to go independent. Much more fun.

Says a guy yet to find someone.

And who's method for finding a woman is so good that he recycles rejects.
(Consider the sources here Bear)
KenC

[acrzybear]

Yes Bear it is best to go independent. Much more fun.

 don't know if it's more fun or not, but you definitely learn more and remember the experience.  Plus that's just the way I am.

[2tallbill]

Hey Bear, I just read the whole T/R and the half a dozen pages of various advice

Good report

Take care and good luck
BeregI zdorOvie! i Udachi

[acrzybear]

Thanks Bill

  Had an interesting thing happen the other day, I stopped a guy for a minor traffic violation, smelled marijuana and he admitted to having some on his person, searched his car incident to arrest and found narcotics and a significant amount of stolen property,  Make a long story short,  got a warrant to search his house in the neighboring city for more stolen property.

  I was waiting at the house with one of the Detectives (from the adjoining agency) for the search warrant to be approved and his wife called him.  I heard him talk to her in Russian, when he got off of the phone I asked him how he knew Russian.  He learned it when he was in the Military and then ended up marrying a Ukrainian lady about 4 years ago.  I mentioned that I just returned from Russia and we spent the next hour talking about Russia, Ukraine and the ladies that live there.  We exchanged numbers and I'm supposed to meet up with him and his wife in the next couple of weeks for dinner.

  You meet people in the most unlikely places, you just never know when or who you're going to meet in this world, if I hadn't stopped that idiot I probably wouldn't have met this Detective and found a new friend.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm!!!

[Simoni]

Thanks Bill

  Had an interesting thing happen the other day, I stopped a guy for a minor traffic violation, smelled marijuana and he admitted to having some on his person, searched his car incident to arrest and found narcotics and a significant amount of stolen property,  Make a long story short,  got a warrant to search his house in the neighboring city for more stolen property.

  I was waiting at the house with one of the Detectives (from the adjoining agency) for the search warrant to be approved and his wife called him.  I heard him talk to her in Russian, when he got off of the phone I asked him how he knew Russian.  He learned it when he was in the Military and then ended up marrying a Ukrainian lady about 4 years ago.  I mentioned that I just returned from Russia and we spent the next hour talking about Russia, Ukraine and the ladies that live there.  We exchanged numbers and I'm supposed to meet up with him and his wife in the next couple of weeks for dinner.

  You meet people in the most unlikely places, you just never know when or who you're going to meet in this world, if I hadn't stopped that idiot I probably wouldn't have met this Detective and found a new friend.

Things that make you go hmmmmmm!!!

Cool story, Bear.  Maybe she has a little sister :-)) LOL

[BradSTL]

Moscow was ok, but it was extremely rushed and very impersonable-no charactor compared to St. Petersburg.  I did notice that there were many beautiful ladies

Where?  Moscow or St. Petersburg?   Its not clear to me which city has the beautiful ladies.

[jb]

Its not clear to me which city has the beautiful ladies.

Both

[acrzybear]

Both

Yep

[ecr844]

* For the mods,

I know this thread hasn't been posted in for some time but I thought that it both has inherent value especially in the high traffic environ that is this board, some of the good stuff can get buried quickly.


"Acrzybear,"

   I have been away from this board for a long while now and I actually hadn't read your TR until just now. What a great read. I understand a lot of your sentiment, and think that in the end you made the right choice. I think you will find that Russia has a 'gravity,' all it's own and it will keep you coming back for more. I hope that the last 6 mos have been kind to you and that you've found what you've been looking for. I can't wait to read more about your experiences and successes.

   Best wishes,
ECR844

[2tallbill]

The Bear is taking some time away from the forum.

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=6834.0

I hope that he is successful in resolving whatever it is that he needs to resolve.

Bill