The big deal: Putin intends to dismantle the world order

[JayH]

     This is another interesting assessment that covers many main issues and side issues of Puin & his Kremlin cronies.It is out of old Soviet playbook- create enough confusion and trouble and only the strong & powerful can survive . It is a MUST read-- and even more so for some here who after all this time still have little comprehension about Ukraine's situation.Ukrainians have long and loud tried to tell the rest of the world that Ukraine is the frontline of resistance against Putin's craziness- a position I am in no doubt about.
    Many parts of the article are interesting-- but the comments about Ukrainian capacity to fight now-as compared to February 2014 are significent.
    The October dates have a particular relevance-the US Presidential election is not likely to go the way Putin wants-- and Hillary Clinton will prove a much tougher President than Obama-particularly in  dealing with Russia . So now- the Russians see a narrow window to attempt to strongarm the world.
 


The big deal: Putin intends to dismantle the world order


In 2017, Moscow was going to put the cards on the table and change the world order that has emerged after the collapse of the USSR and the end of the Cold War - to consolidate the new lines of influence around its borders, as well as in key regions of the world, especially the Middle East. European countries and the United States engaged in the internal political struggle. A few strong players coalition of Western countries helplessly watch the process of preparation for the big deal. In 2017, the year the situation will become even more difficult, and the stakes - even higher.

Источник: http://www.amn.com.ua/blogy/bolshaya-sdelka-kak-putyn-nameren-demontyrovat-myrovoj-poryadok/


Russia today has appeared in a worse position than it was a year ago. It is bursting at the seams Putin's Eurasian Union. Kazakhstan and Belarus - the next victim of Russia - just will not help the Russian regime. When in 2017 Putin's plan will not work, as it was in the past, what happened this year - it will not even go on the defeat to Ukraine, but the situation in which the Russian Federation will enter the stage of the disaster, which the logic described in detail LІGA.net January of this year. The only drawback to this scenario - the debris from the collapsing Putin's Russia will touch their neighbors. However, despite these effects, economic and government in Moscow defeat - this is the best scenario for Ukraine. And maybe for the whole of Europe.

Источник: http://www.amn.com.ua/blogy/bolshaya-sdelka-kak-putyn-nameren-demontyrovat-myrovoj-poryadok/

[Gator]

Old news, and the US is facilitating Putin's plans.   

[JayH]

It is no mystery to many but some still seem to seek to rationalise and justify Russia's behaviour.
Will Trump think he can buddy up or will he take a harder line is the BIG question.

Vladimir Putin will always be America’s enemy

Vladimir Putin is our enemy. Not because we want him to be, but because resentment and hatred of the United States is central to his being. Russia’s president yearns to do us harm.

He blames us for the Soviet Union’s self-wrought collapse. He blames us for Russian stagnation. He blames us for the derelict lot of his drunken, diseased country. And he wants revenge.

Putin has five strategic goals: He wants international sanctions lifted, Europe divided and NATO destroyed. He seeks to restore the empire of the czars. And he wants to humiliate the United States.

Americans and Europeans are targets of a ruthless, audacious and skillful disinformation campaign portraying Russia as a victim, not an aggressor. Not since the heyday of the Soviet-sponsored Ban-the-Bomb movement in the 1950s has Kremlin propaganda thrived so broadly.

We naively insist the truth will prevail. That’s nonsense. Putin knows that big lies work, if repeated until absorbed. And he’s aided by Western stooges who, for money or malice or moral malfeasance, abet Putin in deluding our populations.

http://nypost.com/2016/12/11/vladimir-putin-will-always-be-americas-enemy/

[JayH]

(CNN)It is chilling to hear hoary Kremlin propaganda tropes used by the leader of the free world. But that is exactly what President Donald Trump did in his recent Fox News interview, in which he casually accepted that Vladimir Putin was a killer, but said that America was "not so innocent" and had lots of killers too.

"Whataboutism" was a favorite Kremlin propaganda technique during the Cold War. It aimed to portray the West as so morally flawed that its criticism of the Soviet empire was hypocritical.


Trump has become Putin's ally in Russia's war on the West

"Whataboutism" seemed to have died in the 1990s when Russia's official aim was to become like the West. But it made a comeback under President Vladimir Putin, whose propaganda machine specializes in spreading FUD (Fear Uncertainty and Doubt) in the West.
If Americans, Britons, Germans and others can be made to believe that their rulers are crooks and idiots, and that legality and liberty are a sham, then they will be much less likely to take risks and make sacrifices in defending their own countries.
To some extent, "whataboutism" is a sensible tactic in argument. Criticism delivered from a purported moral high ground deserves special scrutiny.


http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/07/opinions/trumps-moral-relativism-lucas-opinion/index.html

[JayH]

The complexity of dealing with many different issues internationally has to be of great concern to the world at large

Trump could  face resistance to his Russia policy within his own administration as well as the wider national security establishment. ” While Trump could theoretically circumvent any resistance by simply ordering the military to cooperate with Russia in Syria, the Pentagon has already stonewalled a similar approach by former Secretary of State John Kerry.

Here’s what could sink the Trump-Putin relationship

U.S. national security interests could certainly benefit from improved relations between Washington and Moscow, most notably by reducing the risks of nuclear war and nuclear terrorism. However, despite the optimistic signals emanating from the Trump and Putin camps, the relationship could sour quickly – and perhaps even make tensions worse.

Among the policy issues that could still drive a wedge between the United States and Russia:

Iran. Trump is sending contradictory signals on the nuclear deal with Tehran.

Putin could easily view Trump’s repudiation of the deal as a provocation, and perhaps as a precursor to an American strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities.
Trump and Putin could also find themselves in a new nuclear arms race. Remember the furor over Trump’s tweet that “the United States must greatly strengthen and expand its nuclear capability” and his “let it be an arms race” comment to MSNBC after Putin said that Russia needed to strengthen the military potential of its strategic nuclear forces.

It’s not difficult to envision how a renewed Russian-American nuclear arms race might occur.

Russian policy in Afghanistan could also induce a Trump-Putin clash. Although Moscow professes its own fear of Islamic extremism, Russia now shares intelligence with the Taliban – the same jihadists American troops have been fighting for 15 years. While Russia claims it only exchanges information with the Taliban to fight Islamic State, the commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan is on record as saying that Moscow is lending public legitimacy to the Taliban mainly to undermine NATO. The Taliban’s continued ties to al Qaeda – combined with Trump’s stated desire to focus on fighting Islamic extremism – could easily prompt Trump to demand that Moscow change its Afghan policy. It remains to be seen whether Putin would assent to such a demand.

There are, of course, other areas where the two leaders could seek common ground. One is Ukraine, the other is Syria. If the Trump-Putin relationship stays warm, the U.S. president might  consider cutting off support for the broader Syrian rebel movement and partnering with Russia and the Bashar al-Assad regime to fight solely against Islamic State.   

 

Similar concerns apply to Ukraine. Moscow would love for Washington to end sanctions and recognize its annexation of Crimea. Again, what would Putin give Trump in exchange? Moscow could theoretically promise to end its hybrid war in eastern Ukraine, but Putin shows no indication of allowing Ukraine to join the West and he would quite possibly renege on such a deal. Furthermore, Moscow not only wants American sanctions lifted, but even demands that Washington pay it compensation for the damage these sanctions caused. 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-100days-russia-commentary-idUSKBN15L0VQ

[Gator]

If Americans, Britons, Germans and others can be made to believe that their rulers are crooks and idiots, and that legality and liberty are a sham, then they will be much less likely to take risks and make sacrifices in defending their own countries.

Please stop this silliness.  Rather than give credence to a third-rate reporter at a biased and declining news agency, open your eyes.  Have you not observed the cheers Trump receives when he speaks to the military vs. the indifference Obama received?  The military will back Trump.

Analyze the many clues around you rather than feed at the biased media trough (and then regurgitating here). 

[JayH]

Please stop this silliness.  Rather than give credence to a third-rate reporter at a biased and declining news agency, open your eyes.  Have you not observed the cheers Trump receives when he speaks to the military vs. the indifference Obama received?  The military will back Trump.

Analyze the many clues around you rather than feed at the biased media trough (and then regurgitating here).

I really hope that someone has hijacked your computer and is impersonating the "sensible" Gator !

You mention the address to the military--where he at best misrepresented the truth--or lied .
Again today--he cites a record murder rate--which is again-- a misrepresentation or a lie.
Either Trump deliberately quotes from his "alternative" facts file or his researchers are incredibly inept.
Either way-- it highlights Trumps incompetence.
Instead of critcising me--start listening to the republicans in washington who have already had a gutfull ! Or do you dismiss them too?
Open your eyes-look around !!

[fathertime]

Have you not observed the cheers Trump receives when he speaks to the military vs. the indifference Obama received?  The military will back Trump.

clueless.
  For better or worse, the military backed obama just fine.  The jury is out, and it will depend on what circumstance regarding trump.  He makes some noises that make one think he will be very conservative with the military....other noises he makes are concerning.  My impression is he will pick a relatively easy battle to win if he go forward with military options...which takes quite a few nations off the table.


Fathertime! 

[Gator]

I really hope that someone has hijacked your computer and is impersonating the "sensible" Gator !

You mention the address to the military--where he at best misrepresented the truth--or lied .
Again today--he cites a record murder rate--which is again-- a misrepresentation or a lie.
Either Trump deliberately quotes from his "alternative" facts file or his researchers are incredibly inept.
Either way-- it highlights Trumps incompetence.
Instead of critcising me--start listening to the republicans in washington who have already had a gutfull ! Or do you dismiss them too?
Open your eyes-look around !!

You made parroted  a comment suggesting that if Americans believe Trump a "...crook and idiot, and that legality and liberty are a sham, then they will be much less likely to take risks and make sacrifices in defending their own countries."

To challenge your opinion, I referenced the military (you know, the men and women who risk their lives to defend America).  Instead of acknowledging the military support of Trump, you ignored it and diverted to the CNN line of attack. It is your thread but don't expect sensible people to contribute to such biased line of thinking.

You are correct - Trump does misstate facts.  This was his history during the campaign.  I do not expect him to change.  Hillary was just as bad if not worse (e. g., Benghazi).   And she is a crook.   Trump was not my ideal candidate, yet far superior to Hillary when casting my vote on election day.   

Now that Trump is our President, I fully support him in striving to accomplish what he promised.  I supported Obama in his first year.  I want my President to lead my country to prosperity. 

Let us wait to see the results of his service as President.   Three years from now I may be so upset with Trump I will support a good Democrat.   However, unlike you I am not projecting from Trump's third week in office to what he will accomplish over the next four years.    Anyone who does that is mentally masturbating.  I hope you climax soon so this nonsense will stop. 

[JayH]

Gator--   you continue to confuse my comments. It has nothing to do with Hillary-- nothing to do with the Democrats --it has nothing to do with Obama  -- it is not even about Republicans generally.
It is about Trump himself -- and his fitness and competence to be President.

You complain about a few posts on the topic -- out of so much that could be discussed. Contrast that with 9 years of constant negative posts on Obama and any and everything he did. There were far more people who supported him than approve of Trump --  yet even on the forum was a constant stream of not so nice invective directed at what was the President at the time.

Now to the point -- Trump tells lies and misrepresents information on a daily basis  --it is indefensible.

[Gator]

Gator--   you continue to confuse my comments. It has nothing to do with Hillary-- nothing to do with the Democrats --it has nothing to do with Obama  -- it is not even about Republicans generally.
It is about Trump himself -- and his fitness and competence to be President.

Confused?  This is what I hear when you post, not just here but in other threads as well.  . 

I JayH  am not a citizen of the US and I live as far away from the US as possible, so I do not know Jack Shit  about  the American economy and other American issues that compelled Americans in a long, democratic process to decide Trump is the best candidate to lead America.   What Americans do not realize is that I have a supernatural ability to perceive events in the future, and based on Trump's mere three weeks in office, I am convinced Trump will dismantle the world order within his four-year tenure  and create a totalitarian world government.  Hence - the title of my thread.

 

[JayH]

Is there any possibility of you posting when you are sober?

Nearly everything is your post is factually wrong -- but you did get the fact I do not live in the US correct!

Perhaps you could try and distinguish the views/ideas/comments/conclusions in linked articles written by various people are not necessarily mine?

[msmob]

... American issues that compelled Americans in a long, democratic process to decide Trump is the best candidate to lead America. 

3 million more selected the 'losing' candidate - such is your - [ long, expensive, and mind-numbingly boring ] 'democratic process'  

What Americans do not realize is that I have a supernatural ability to perceive events in the future, and based on Trump's mere three weeks in office, I am convinced Trump will dismantle the world order within his four-year tenure  and create a totalitarian world government.  Hence - the title of my thread.

))

[Anotherkiwi]

...so I do not know Jack Shit  about  the American economy and other American issues that compelled Americans in a long, democratic process to decide Trump is the best candidate to lead America.

That's unfair, Gator.  GQBlues (and others) have already pointed out that the USA is a constitutional republic, NOT a democracy.  Had it been a true democracy, in terms that the rest of the world understands, you would have Hillary as your President.

That, I imagine, would have emptied this board of several die-hard Republicans, who would have departed this world in a flurry of apoplectic strokes.

Despite my serious "misgivings" about Trump, I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt for a bit longer - provided he starts telling the truth.  If he continues on his current path it won't matter what he says, because the USA, instead of becoming great again, will become just another nation that nobody believes or trusts.

[fathertime]

 

I JayH  am not a citizen of the US and I live as far away from the US as possible, so I do not know Jack Shit  about  the American economy and other American issues that compelled Americans in a long, democratic process to decide Trump is the best candidate to lead America.

Just remember all this when you claim intimate/superior knowledge of Egypt by trying to invoke a trip to there in 1977.   


In addition being a detached daily golfer/duffer gives you very little authority to speak for many working Americans.






Fathertime!

[fathertime]

That, I imagine, would have emptied this board of several die-hard Republicans, who would have departed this world in a flurry of apoplectic strokes.

That is about right.

Despite my serious "misgivings" about Trump, I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt for a bit longer - provided he starts telling the truth.  If he continues on his current path it won't matter what he says, because the USA, instead of becoming great again, will become just another nation that nobody believes or trusts.

That is about right.  Trump does deserve every chance to lead/Represent the USA.  I'm just hoping he makes more rational decisions, not based on his silly campaign promises, but on what actually benefits the most Americans possible.  I don't think it will benefit the nation to get involved in petty disagreements with allied nations.  From the perspectie of a citizen of the USA, I like to think that if some agreements need modification, hopefully he can pull that sort of thing off getting the USA the maximum benefit possible, within reason/fair play.   He is supposed to be a master negotiator so that should be one of his greatest strengths. 


Fathertime! 

[tfcrew]

 
  For better or worse, the military backed obama just fine.   

More worse it seems-

And what source are you using?

“Obama's popularity — never high to begin with — has crumbled, falling from 35 percent in 2009 to just 15 percent this year, while his disapproval ratings have increased to 55 percent from 40 percent over that time.”

It's no secret that President Obama has been an unpopular commander-in-chief with servicemen and -women for a while.

The President has had a tumultuous relationship with the military during his tenure as Commander-in-Chief.

http://ijr.com/2014/12/220873-military-support-for-obama-all-time-record/

[Gator]

Nearly everything is your post is factually wrong

Name something wrong in my post other than my mistaken use of democratic process as already corrected by your Pacific neighbor.

You suggest you know America yet do not live here.  Hillary Clinton and the DNC live here and should know America, yet in the last month they did not even campaign in WI and MI, believing they were solid blue.   Are you smarter than them about understanding what will unfold in America over the next four years.

Perhaps you could try and distinguish the views/ideas/comments/conclusions in linked articles written by various people are not necessarily mine?

Why would I want to do what you do:  quote third-rate reporters from second-rate,  declining media?  I have given up reading the media because so little of it is balanced.  The media was biased against Trump during the campaign and have become even more recalcitrant now that he is elected.  Trump has not bent, and such is not good because a leader needs the media to deliver his political messages to the citizenry.   

America has problems,  we are politically divided, and it is getting worse.  For example, I was shocked to learn that today the City of Seattle cut ties with Wells Fargo because the bank is among a dozen or so financial institutions who are funding the Dakota Access pipeline.  Holy shit Batman!  Where does this end? 

You sit in front of a computer screen in Oz reading biased analysis, and some of your parroted reports are just plain wrong.  Go find a variety of Yanks and get to know them; then  report back.  Also, stop projecting four years out based on three weeks of Trump.   

If you need a hobby, Why don't you study Greece's debt and let us know whether the EU can kick the can down the road again.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Despite my serious "misgivings" about Trump, I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt for a bit longer - provided he starts telling the truth.  If he continues on his current path it won't matter what he says, because the USA, instead of becoming great again, will become just another nation that nobody believes or trusts.

I think you and others seem to forget many of us don't care what other nations think.     Many of us are not interested in righting the perceived wrongs of foreigners.  Especially at the expense of our own citizens. 

As they say, "Charity starts at home" and we have citizens that need OUR resources.  It's funny seeing non-citizens try to dictate WHERE we should spend OUR resources.  Let's face it, there isn't enough the US can do to make right all the wrongs in the world.   I get it, only the wrongs that are important to you (not specifically you Kiwi) should be fixed.

You guys act like all politicians have been telling the truth up until Trump getting elected. lol  I see Trump keeping his promises on the main issues.  That is all I care about.

[Gator]

That's unfair, Gator.  GQBlues (and others) have already pointed out that the USA is a constitutional republic, NOT a democracy.  Had it been a true democracy, in terms that the rest of the world understands, you would have Hillary as your President.

Touché. 

Despite my serious "misgivings" about Trump, I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt for a bit longer - provided he starts telling the truth.

And you were not bothered by Clinton, Obama, etc.  and the hordes that preceded them?

If he continues on his current path it won't matter what he says, because the USA, instead of becoming great again, will become just another nation that nobody believes or trusts.

I have bad news for you - Trump is not the world's next Gandhi.  The world started mistrusting American government a long time ago.  I don't give full trust to my government.

[LiveFromUkraine]

I have bad news for you - Trump is not the world's next Gandhi.  The world started mistrusting American government a long time ago.  I don't give full trust to my government.

The US was caught spying on it's so called "partners" but that wasn't such a big deal and everyone continued their blind faith in the American government. lol


This next 4 years will provide a lot of entertainment.  Makes me want to vote for Trump again.  haha

[Larry1]

I think you and others seem to forget many of us don't care what other nations think.     Many of us are not interested in righting the perceived wrongs of foreigners.  Especially at the expense of our own citizens. 

As they say, "Charity starts at home" and we have citizens that need OUR resources.  It's funny seeing non-citizens try to dictate WERE we should spend OUR resources.  Let's face it, there isn't enough the US can do to make right all the wrongs in the world.   I get it, only the wrongs that are important to you (not specifically you Kiwi) should be fixed.

You guys act like all politicians have been telling the truth up until Trump getting elected. lol  I see Trump keeping his promises on the main issues.  That is all I care about.

This sums up well what many (most) of us think about foreigners carping and complaining that US law and policy are different from the law and policy followed by their countries.

[msmob]

I think you and others seem to forget many of us don't care what other nations think.     Many of us are not interested in righting the perceived wrongs of foreigners.  Especially at the expense of our own citizens. 

As they say, "Charity starts at home" and we have citizens that need OUR resources.  It's funny seeing non-citizens try to dictate WHERE we should spend OUR resources.  Let's face it, there isn't enough the US can do to make right all the wrongs in the world.   I get it, only the wrongs that are important to you (not specifically you Kiwi) should be fixed.

You guys act like all politicians have been telling the truth up until Trump getting elected. lol  I see Trump keeping his promises on the main issues.  That is all I care about.

I'm SO glad JayH started this thread..!

It demonstrates the  point that nationalistic pride is not a little scary and defo an accident of birth ...

Some of you remind me of Zhironovsky

[LiveFromUkraine]

I'm SO glad JayH started this thread..!

It demonstrates the  point that nationalistic pride is not a little scary and defo an accident of birth ...

Some of you remind me of Zhironovsky

Care to translate that into English? 


I have no idea how prioritizing the care of our own people could be considered nationalistic pride.  Only an idiot could come up with that comparison.

BTW, how many refugees are living with you at this moment?

[msmob]

Care to translate that into English? 

My 'mistake' - I forgot some of us aren't insular, travel and take interest in the 'Politicians' in other nations...

FYI: Zhirinosvsky .. Leader of the 'Liberlal' Democrats in Russia - wanted to wall off Russia, exercise birth control in the Caucasus Republics, charge a one-off 'dowry' if marrying a Russian woman and taking her abroad ..

[ur]http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/09/07/russia-s-trump-vladimir-zhirinovsky-wants-to-build-a-wall-ban-muslims-and-nuke-the-white-house.html[/url]

I have no idea how prioritizing the care of our own people could be considered nationalistic pride.  Only an idiot could come up with that comparison.

But that is NOT all you whinged about, is it ?

Your President and the last one were quite happy to suggest how 'we' voted in the UK ....

..and when entry is refused to citizens of OUR countries - who have valid visas / residence permits for yours  - 'Helllo' .. we notice..

BTW, how many refugees are living with you at this moment?

None..

We're one of 45K folks who have offered accommodation / care for the kids from Calais' refugee camps - the Jungle - and none have been placed as they keep being refused refugee status.