The Struggle For Ukraine

[Lily]

Meet Marina Ovsyannikova, a heroic (and beautiful) Russian woman. Employee of the main Russian state TV channel, she managed to get behind the newsanchor during live news with a an anti-war poster to be seen by millions of Russians. At 4:33 is her appearance.


The poster also said in the middle, 'Don't believe the propaganda. They lie to you here'.

Now she is interviewed by CNN.

[tfcrew]

Start a new thread on money/currency/gold.
There your misconceptions can be addressed.

                                                     

[ML]

Meet Marina Ovsyannikova, a heroic (and beautiful) Russian woman. Employee of the main Russian state TV channel, she managed to get behind the news anchor during live news with a an anti-war poster to be seen by millions of Russians. At 4:33 is her appearance.

The poster also said in the middle, 'Don't believe the propaganda. They lie to you here'.

I saw all of this.
Can't believe they only gave her a small fine.
Why wasn't she prosecuted and sent to prison for 15 years under the new law ?
Does she have a secret video of Mad Vlad peeing on a bed ?

[Patagonie]

USA has flown reaper drones on the boder of Donbas
each reaper is capable of carrying 4 hellfire missiles, which is more lethal than a javelin

a fleet of these crossing the Polish border at night at tree top level
land at dawn at refueling centers in Ukraine and then take off with mixed teams of Ukrainian and remote American operators and hit russian supply lines and artillery
return and repeat again the next night...

somewhere between 2 weeks and 2 months from now, if Russia doesn't at least isolate Odesa and Kiev from the rest of Ukraine
then it has no choice other than to declare general military mobilization!!!
this will mean millions will be drafted!

maybe could start fresh Russian deployments in June
everything really depends on the weather now

The more that time goes on…
then the more weapons that can be provided to Ukraine…
not just boosting Javelin and Stinger numbers, but totally new kinds of weapons with low training requirements

like 50 cal BMG
Barrett 50 cal Sniper

Mk 19 40 mm grenade launchers
Carl Gustaf 84mm recoilless rifle

all of these weapons can be taught to someone in 1 week
and easy to smuggle thousands of them into Ukrainian training centers by truck and dispersed into combat zones

the west must also contend with the idea of a humanitarian airlift to stop the spread of famine in Ukraine
when the food supply/transport system starts to break down a few weeks from now

general mobilization, that's will be huge if we face such situation.

[Chelseaboy]

Meet Marina Ovsyannikova, a heroic (and beautiful) Russian woman. Employee of the main Russian state TV channel, she managed to get behind the newsanchor during live news with a an anti-war poster to be seen by millions of Russians. At 4:33 is her appearance.


The poster also said in the middle, 'Don't believe the propaganda. They lie to you here'.

Now she is interviewed by CNN.

Yes we saw her protest here in the UK.


A very brave lady to speak the truth in Putin land.

[JohnDearGreen]

Here is a western Youtuber with a million subscribers.  He is telling a different story than what you read here.   Has a snippet from a western guy who it seems went to Ukraine to fight for Ukraine. 
There is definitely a strain of America that isn't buying into the current controlled narrative we get from our officials. 

Fathertime!

Supposedly, that guy was rejected by Ukraine and not allowed to fight.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10626697/Ukraines-foreign-fighters-ridicule-American-Boogaloo-Boy-RAN-AWAY-fighting.html

[Patagonie]

Huh?  When I have stated I support Russia's actions?

What I have said -

1. There are always multiple perspectives to any conflict. Resolving conflict requires taking on all perspectives, even if you disagree with them. I have previously received professional training in this area, here's a taste: http://www.dianemushohamilton.com/about-diane/

2. Ukrainian government and military do not value civilian lives. Plenty of evidence this is the case. They are not virtuous. They are in no way better than the Russian army with respect to civilians - and arguably worse.

3. Western narrative is BS. What happened to the "Ghost of Kyiv"? Was he shot down? There is propaganda on both sides but western media only present one side and have banned/blocked the other (in the EU and other places).

4. Russia will get what it wants or there will be nuclear/world war. This is subjective and not a presentation of my personal preference - but what is transpiring. Very disturbing flight patterns of certain aircraft in Russia in the past 24 hours indicating Russia may be preparing for a strike. I am seriously concerned about this possibility. Russia have nuclear systems on highest alert and have operationally deployed S-500 systems including in Moscow.

5. De-escalation should be prioritized. Sanctions hurt common people, not the elites. It has increased the cost of living (survival) for people all over the world. Food (and fertilizer) production and distribution in Ukraine and Russia is severely impacted. The reality is a hit to food production/distribution/prices will result in starvation/death/political turmoil in countries completely unrelated to the conflict. This is a serious global problem.

6. This is not 'good guys vs. bad guys'. Maybe it's my libertarian streak but when governments are involved there are, with very limited exceptions, absolutely no good guys. Power structures attract corrupted personalities who do not act virtuously. I mean, seriously, two weeks into the conflict Russia decides to drop a cluster bomb in downtown Donetsk? Seriously? I've never denied Russian troops have killed civilians because it is bound to happen in a conflict of this size and nature.

I get labeled a Putin stooge because I don't follow the herd? Think for yourself. At least Boe bothers to color her responses with different viewpoints rather than petty name calling.

The world is teetering on the brink of nuclear disaster. Not sure people have cottoned on to this yet.

Ghost of Kiev and Snake Island not surrendering are myths from the Ukrainian side. Correct

[fathertime]

The first casualty of war is ALWAYS the truth…

Suppression of information in the west I can see.   In Russia similar story.



Looks like Putin has launched his hypersonic weapons into Ukraine now.   The talking heads are now stating he may launch very small nuclear (Sub 1 Kiloton) weapons to wipe out Ukrainian forces completely in addition to sending the message that he will do whatever he needs to do.  Personally, I think he is up to taking part in this sort of launch, and it would be catastrophic to whoever remains in the area. 

     The general population in the USA doesn't know or care too much about Ukraine, so I don't think our nation would go very deep.  Our priority lies with punishing Russia financially, and of course fostering what we can to ensure Russia incurs as many military losses as possible.   

Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

These are some of the first remarks AFTER meeting with Biden yesterday. 
China blames NATO.  I tend to believe it is more about money and business. 
Either way, China words are standing more with Russia than the west obviously.
I'll be curious to see what the next actions are. We shall see if China resupplies Russia, the way the west has been resupplying Ukraine.   

China's Vice Foreign Minister blames NATO for war in Ukraine

....China's vice foreign minister on Saturday blamed NATO for the war in Ukraine and criticized the West's sanctions against Russia, AP reports.....

....The big picture: Le's remarks come one day after President Biden and Chinese President Xi Jinping spoke about the war, with Biden describing "the implications and consequences if China provides material support to Russia," according to a White House readout of the call.....

http://www.yahoo.com/news/chinas-vice-foreign-minister-blames-144527348.html 

Fathertime! 

[krimster2]

If Russia mobilizes, then the west will have to mobilize:

USA could move 100 reaper drones to North Eastern Romania, transfer them to Ukraine, and attack Russian positions in southern Ukraine and return to base without refueling!!

don’t worry, the USA has about 330 Reaper Drones, these are 10X better than the Turkish ones!!

[Boethius]

Meet Marina Ovsyannikova, a heroic (and beautiful) Russian woman. Employee of the main Russian state TV channel, she managed to get behind the newsanchor during live news with a an anti-war poster to be seen by millions of Russians. At 4:33 is her appearance.


The poster also said in the middle, 'Don't believe the propaganda. They lie to you here'.

Now she is interviewed by CNN.

There is some speculation, based on the fine she received (administrative, despite the fact she could have been fined criminally), that this was "planted" by authorities.

[ML]

There is some speculation, based on the fine she received (administrative, despite the fact she could have been fined criminally), that this was "planted" by authorities.

Please elaborate.  I don't understand the background of your words at all.

My google search turned up nothing along the lines you suggested.

[Boethius]

She received the absolute lowest level of fine possible, 30,000 rubles.  She could have been fined will over 1 million rubles had she faced a criminal charge, and she could have faced prison time. 

Throughout the history of the USSR, many so called "dissidents" were actually working with the Soviet state.  I trust nothing coming out of Russia, because they use a lot of disinformation.  I also don't trust reports of war "successes" coming from Ukraine.

I am not suggesting Marina Ovsyannikova was participating in a disinformation piece of propaganda, just that we can't blindly accept that what she did is as it seems. 

[ML]

She received the absolute lowest level of fine possible, 30,000 rubles.  She could have been fined will over 1 million rubles had she faced a criminal charge, and she could have faced prison time. 


Throughout the history of the USSR, many so called "dissidents" were actually working with the Soviet state.  I trust nothing coming out of Russia, because they use a lot of disinformation.  I also don't trust reports of war "successes" coming from Ukraine.

OK, but how could allowing her protest on TV benefit Putin's government?

[Boethius]

It proves to the West that dissent is still "allowed" in Russia, that Russia is not an autocratic state, despite the fact that the vast majority of mass media is state controlled.

[ML]

It proves to the West that dissent is still "allowed" in Russia, that Russia is not an autocratic state . . .

OK, but I didn't know that Putin or his government cares what the West thinks about such.

They don't care about what West (and much of the world) thinks about their terrorist activities in Ukraine . . . so why would they care about dissent, etc.?

[Boethius]

I think they do care what the West thinks. If they didn’t, there would be no troll factories.

[fathertime]

I think they do care what the West thinks. If they didn’t, there would be no troll factories.

They probably want to make sure their view is heard....in addition to making sure there is some dissent in the US and the rest of the west, in terms of policy towards Russia.

Fathertime!   

[Boethius]

No, they have always had a policy of influencing, and changing Western opinion.

[Boethius]

Here’s a video I found today that explains some of this.

http://youtu.be/LR-u3Lbuc0Y

[ML]

I think they do care what the West thinks. If they didn’t, there would be no troll factories.

Good point.

[fathertime]

They probably want to make sure their view is heard....in addition to making sure there is some dissent in the US and the rest of the west, in terms of policy towards Russia.

Fathertime!   

No, they have always had a policy of influencing, and changing Western opinion.

Sounds about the same to me.

Fathertime!

[Boethius]

The difference is, in the US, dissenting opinions are tolerated. In Russia, not so much.

[ML]

Here’s a video I found today that explains some of this.

http://youtu.be/LR-u3Lbuc0Y

Excellent find Boe.

My synopsis:  Was the action of Russian TV woman Marina Ovsiannikova merely a Putin sanctioned stunt to turn the world's attention on her . . . and away from the atrocities being committed by Russian terrorist attacks on Ukraine ?

[SteveInBoston]

Here's a personal update on the struggle for Ukraine.

T flew to Poland two weeks ago.  She took medical supplies from Sunflower of Peace, a local non profit.  A shout out to Delta - we purchased a basic fare but they allowed 3 oversized and over-weight checked-in luggage filled with combat gauge, compression bandages, combat tournequets and medical packs.  All without charge after just showing them a letter from Sunflower of Peace.

She has been travelling back and forth from the border and Warsaw, meeting other volunteers with supplies and getting other equipment requested by the militia, such as flak vests and thermal scopes.

She promised me she would stay in Poland and not enter Ukraine, which lasted a week.  I somewhat expected it - she is in Ukraine near the border to help with refugees and supplies.

T is from Mariupol.  Last year she bought a house there for her sister and two nephews.  They were the ones who let us know about the invasion, when our oldest nephew called because he heard explosions.  We lost contact with them on March 6.  They were without electricity, heat and running water.  A part of an artillery shell punched a hole above one of our nephews bedroom.  They have been sheltering in their unfinished basement, which is more of a winter cold storage room.  They had a small stock of food and drinking water - enough for a few days.  They tried to leave that day but turned around when they saw shelling up ahead on the road.

Last Saturday a friend contacted us.  They went by the house and saw my SIL's car.  They met my SIL and she and the nephews were ok.

On Tuesday they were able to evacuate from Mrpl.  They were a part of a civilian convoy that went to Zaporizhzhia.  Not a day too soon.  The convoy that left Wednesday was hit by an artillery strike, with several dead and many injurded.  T said 7 died.  On the following day the drama theater was bombed.  T's house is located two blocks away.

Today SIL and nephews are in central Ukraine.  They should meet up with T tomorrow evening.  T has arranged a place for them - one of the volunteers she works with has a summer house in a town near the Polish border.  Our oldest nephew is 19 and cannot leave Ukraine.  We are going to arrange a job for him either at a nearby factory or have him volunteer with transferring supplies.  Or maybe have him volunteer at a community kitchen to feed passing refugees.

I've read a few posts here.  Seems like some people are debating and some are repeating crap theories. 

If any want to do something, like donate or provide some other support, check your local charities.  Don't just donate blindly - I've come across some suspect organizations.  We picked the one we work with because we went to the charity founder's home and packed supplies into large duffle bags.  They are what they said they were.