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Author Topic: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish  (Read 13089 times)

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Offline gaspar227

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Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« on: June 02, 2018, 08:20:23 PM »
So been a while since I posted.  This is a 1.5 trips report (1 Ukraine, 1 'vacation).

Back in April 7-14, I decided to go visit my girl in Ukraine for her birthday.   I seriously just called in sick and made a trip.  This was a lot of fun, for the most part, but also many of the red flags I had discussed (more like giant red flaming banners) reared their heads. But being a man and very stupid, I chose to ignore them.

BUT!  the trip was great.  Arrived via Houston/Istanbul into Odessa.  My girl met me at the airport again, and we were off to Daribaskya.  I learned my lesson and booked everything myself.  The apartment was a honeymoon suite right off the main square with a jacuzzi tub in the bedroom.  This was amazing.  First spring was in the trees, it was actually shorts weather the whole time.   I was really confident of my blossoming relationship.

I had asked her to find things to do, so we went to the Circus.  It was cute, very kid-focused but fun.  We walked around some of the bazaars, I mean I hit my 10,000 steps every day.  We went to the port and took pictures on the Odessa letters there.  It was a lot of fun.  We even did the zoo!

We walked  Daribaskya at night.  I did Easter dinner with her parents, that was great. 

Things were good.  Pretty much a flawless trip.  I had a nice laptop I refurbished for her, I brought her my LG G5 after I upgraded to a G6.  A couple other little things, and I dropped everything and made a point of being there on her birthday.  These were not extravagant gifts, but still I thought it was a lot of effort and time to setup all her accounts and everything for her, bought her the case she wanted, wireless earbuds...i mean the whole setup.

Every morning (ish) was a walk to the Athena for coffee and something from the grocery.  I was feeling like a seasoned pro.  The weather was amazing, I missed the snow, and the cold that was after I left.  We did Compote for beautiful pastries.

Then the crazy started to show really towards the end.  She started asking me about my ex girlfriend relentlessly (who happens to be an ex model).  I told her that was the past, but she wouldn't let it go.  She would get angry and ask me why I still love her.  I mean this is someone I haven't talked to in 2 years.    Then it was talk about my kids.  Why did I have to see them still.  they were just reminders of my ex wife she would say.    But then she would go back to being straight up cool and apologizing saying she had drank too much (which she didn't really .... YET).  It was Jekyll and Hyde but I was choosing to overlook the Hyde. 

On the last night we went to see a play called Viy.  Now I speak no Russian, but this is a really strange play that she has somehow got in her head is like her love.  Basically some guy sees an ugly girl who thinks he's beautiful.  She says she wants to be with him, but he calls her ugly and says he would never love such an ugly woman.  In reality she's a witch and the daughter of a weird demon guy that's disguised as a regular looking man. 

He wanders off with his buddies, then they find a strange house, where this witch lives...but now she's beautiful.  They start goofing around, then she dies.  Her dad wants him to watch her body and pray for 3 nights, he finally agrees.  night 1 all kinds of weird stuff happens.  The dad bribes him with booze for night 2, now she turns into a witch and chases him around, but he has a salt circle or something.  Night 3 her dad bribes him to stick around with gold, he does, then a bunch of demons come out and the dad turns into Viy and he ends up hanging himself. 

I'm tripped out by this crazy play, and she's trying to make me understand that this is love to her or some crap. 

Anyway I'm out of there the next day and things are OK still, but the weirdness is on the horizon.

SO!!  Part .5 of my site visit.  I had a european trip planned.  a week in Berlin/Geneva/Amsterdam with a Rhine river cruise in week 2. 

In my wisdom, (I have an active K1 application still going -- soon to be cancelled) I thought it smart to have her meet my parents.

The week leading up to the visit the number of crazy, strange outlandish and absurd things coming out of this woman's mouth were remarkable.  Also with vacillating I love you/ I hate you.  Then she's going to cancel, then she's not going to cancel...and I chalk it all up to nerves...

BUT she really starts talking crap AS I'M ON THE PLANE.  Don't make me sit by your daughter (she's coming too) don't send me pictures of her.  I'm not going if you make me look at her.  I mean nasty stuff.  But I'm committed.  I think she's just really freaked to meet my parents.  then she starts in on how she's 'late' from our time in April. I seem to remember a really crabby couple days in there, so now I think maybe she's just PMS and that's what this is all about.  Regardless...I'm stubborn.

Needless to say much of the trip is ruined by one crazy stunt after another.  One minute she tells my mom I yell at her and she breaks down crying (the closest thing to yelling was me saying her name 10 times because she ignored me) then she won't walk across a lawn and wants me to carry her so her shoes don't get dirty...I mean WOW!!

I don't have a lock on my phone, BUT I just got a new one as mentioned and I have virtually nothing on it.  Well...thanks to google, my history was there from before her for some things.  she finds a couple of loveme.com posts (complete hogwash btw) I clicked on.  She also finds a message from my ex girlfriend's mom that says something like, she still loves me etc.  My reply was like...um, if that's the case why are you writing to me?  Thanks but no thanks.
 
ALL NIGHT she goes through my phone then wakes me up and starts in on me about everything.  Screen caps, bookmarks, everything is thrown in my face.  I look at her phone for a second...a glance and I see Badoo and mambo loaded with like 50 numbers on them each of unread messages.  The chick flipped out.  So I book her an early flight home from Geneva.  Then she begs me...crys, promises things are different and I'm able to refund the ticket so I say OK, stay.

Next night same exact thing!!! rinse repeat. 

Last night, i put fingerprint on the phone, she literally used my finger while I slept and was at it again.  This time she sat on my daughters bed and had her help translate text messages.  I mean...wow.  The next day my dad says he has a nightmare that she's gone psycho on my daughter and me.  I mean she was fatal attraction wacko.

OMG -- nightmare as I've never seen.
 
So I finally get her on a plane, too many stupid things happen to even talk about them to get her there, and when she gets home, I get one viber "I'm home" "I love you" I don't reply for like 12 hours and she's cut all our chat history, changed her picture that had me in it to a single and I have not heard from her since (I just got back from Frankfort today).  I attached my last sighting of her.

So as far as trip reports go... this was one of the wackiest things I've ever had happen to me.  I mean you can't make this stuff up.  I gotta learn to listen to the guys that say stuff about immature women and just move on.
What a waste of time she turned out to be and really disappointing. 

PS Odessa is great in the spring, but I plan on trying another trip in July just to see what's up and meet up with a couple of friends I met there.  Maybe a girl or two as well -- but not this one.  my parents were like...you need to stay as far away from this girl as possible. 


Offline msmob

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2018, 11:26:29 PM »
O..M...G..

What a trip report - *I* feel bruised - just - reading it

Well now, ..... did she ( perhaps ) have had some trust issues ? .....

For the benefit of others - did you learn something - that in hindsight would have warned you off, before ?

Don't let her put you off the venture...










Offline Boethius

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #2 on: June 02, 2018, 11:45:39 PM »
On the last night we went to see a play called Viy.  Now I speak no Russian, but this is a really strange play that she has somehow got in her head is like her love.  Basically some guy sees an ugly girl who thinks he's beautiful.  She says she wants to be with him, but he calls her ugly and says he would never love such an ugly woman.  In reality she's a witch and the daughter of a weird demon guy that's disguised as a regular looking man. 

He wanders off with his buddies, then they find a strange house, where this witch lives...but now she's beautiful.  They start goofing around, then she dies.  Her dad wants him to watch her body and pray for 3 nights, he finally agrees.  night 1 all kinds of weird stuff happens.  The dad bribes him with booze for night 2, now she turns into a witch and chases him around, but he has a salt circle or something.  Night 3 her dad bribes him to stick around with gold, he does, then a bunch of demons come out and the dad turns into Viy and he ends up hanging himself. 

I'm tripped out by this crazy play, and she's trying to make me understand that this is love to her or some crap. 

Viy - written by a virtually unknown Ukrainian named Nikolai Vasylovych Gogol.  You may want to look him up. >:D

Viy was in a collection of short stories, titled Mirgorod.  Another of the tales in the collection is yet another virtually unknown story, titled Taras Bulba.  Mirhorod is a city in Poltava, where Gogol is from, and the stories in the collection all have Ukrainian themes or roots.

Viy is not a love story, it is a horror story.  But, Gogol was a pretty hardcore opium addict, so his brilliance is often difficult to understand.  Here's a link to the film version-



Re your daughter - this is often the case with FSUW, because in divorces, children usually "belong" to the mother.  That's cultural, though it is slowly changing.

The jealousy - difficult to know if that would have turned around with time and trust.  You didn't have enough time together to build up trust.  I liked the finger scan in the night.  That's something I would have done early in my relationship.  Instead, I just snooped around and read all the love letters his exes sent him, then interrogated him.  We managed to work through it. :P
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 11:47:24 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline msmob

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2018, 12:03:48 AM »
Boethius,

you didn't ...?;)

Do you think this is a particular woman's trait or a function of FSUW ?

I distinctly remember coming home and finding V pointing to my computer screen of an image of a previous g/f in a bikini and asking, "WHY it was still there ?"  This is before we married.

I smiled, grabbed her - sat her on my lap - in front of the screen - and reminded her that the computer - we only had one - was shared and that my email was not password protected - hers (ALWAYS) was

Said photo's existence was unknown to me and buried DEEP in a section marked for deletion and could have been overwritten at any time.

She had used a prog to undelete ;)

Although I 'punished' her and that was fun, she still never understood the concept of sharing....  worked both ways. ))




Offline Boethius

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2018, 12:14:06 AM »
I did. But, I was a teenager. He just laughed. I read that post to him, and said I admired the ingenuity in accessing OP’s phone with his fingerprint. It’s genius! I’d have done this at that time, but our relationship predates cellphones. :devil: 
 
I think it’s a general female trait. I think OP’s woman had either a father who cheated on her mother, or a former lover she loved with all her heart who cheated on her. Some women never get over this, but others will once the relationship is at a certain level of security and trust. This is basically about insecurity.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 01:15:33 AM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline JayH

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2018, 12:14:27 AM »



Then the crazy started to show really towards the end.  She started asking me about my ex girlfriend relentlessly (who happens to be an ex model).  I told her that was the past, but she wouldn't let it go.  She would get angry and ask me why I still love her.  I mean this is someone I haven't talked to in 2 years.    Then it was talk about my kids.  Why did I have to see them still.  they were just reminders of my ex wife she would say.    But then she would go back to being straight up cool and apologizing saying she had drank too much (which she didn't really .... YET).  It was Jekyll and Hyde but I was choosing to overlook the Hyde. 




I don't have a lock on my phone, BUT I just got a new one as mentioned and I have virtually nothing on it.  Well...thanks to google, my history was there from before her for some things.  she finds a couple of loveme.com posts (complete hogwash btw) I clicked on.  She also finds a message from my ex girlfriend's mom that says something like, she still loves me etc.  My reply was like...um, if that's the case why are you writing to me?  Thanks but no thanks.
 
ALL NIGHT she goes through my phone then wakes me up and starts in on me about everything.  Screen caps, bookmarks, everything is thrown in my face.  I look at her phone for a second...a glance and I see Badoo and mambo loaded with like 50 numbers on them each of unread messages.  The chick flipped out.  So I book her an early flight home from Geneva.  Then she begs me...crys, promises things are different and I'm able to refund the ticket so I say OK, stay.

Next night same exact thing!!! rinse repeat. 

Last night, i put fingerprint on the phone, she literally used my finger while I slept and was at it again.  This time she sat on my daughters bed and had her help translate text messages.  I mean...wow.  The next day my dad says he has a nightmare that she's gone psycho on my daughter and me.  I mean she was fatal attraction wacko.

OMG -- nightmare as I've never seen.
 


Well--   you can't say the point was not made to you on precisely this stuff-- from your previous thread

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=22534.25

Quote from: gaspar227 on February 25, 2018, 09:12:43 PM


I mean I could go on, the red flags were everywhere, but the fact of the matter is I love crazy women, and usually I'm pretty good at corralling them for at least a time.  This is remarkably harder from 10,000 km away, however and it's very difficult to smooth talk things over when every other word in response is 'chto?'


Reply from JayH


If you are using crazy as in zany - yeah-I can understand that --but crazy --mmmm.
I can tell numerous incidents about photos . EG -- I had kept a photo because it showed my beach -- 150 metres away  the then 4 yo son of my good friends was playing in the water -- my girl spotted this and lost interest in everything else but"who is this child" -- "why have you kept photo" etc Nothing worse than seeing your credibility evaporating in the cross examination !!

More recently -- in updating computers and a new phone -- the system picked up photos I had long ago forgotten about -- 1000's of them ! At the time --I had not even looked at them for years -and did not realise they were visible on new phone .My girl picked up phone and started looking at photos ! I am still being chided over it 18 months later !

Going back a long time -- when my Ukrainian ex asked to see photos of my Aus ex --I said I did not know if I had any . Eventually - when not looking-I found old hard copy and scanned to computer. Some time later -- when talking about various things -I said I have photos . After looking very closely at each photo -- she commented that she was very pretty -- then--"you said you did not have any photos ' !!That was about 2 years after me saying I did not have !!

Same girl -- when future was being considered in Australia -in the course of discussion -it came up that my recent Aus ex did  work and live not  very far from me at all !!  Note -that relationship was 200% finished over  -- but after some time and all the details finalised  -out of necessity we still talked and then and now have a good relationship- as friends -nothing more. My Ukrainian girl hit the roof when she found this out -- and I mean exploded ! It took a long time to settle all that down .

It takes time to develop trust -- and things that you or I may consider nothing -- can be taken extremely seriously - and threaten the potential relationship !

So-- you ain't alone !! ;D


SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline msmob

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2018, 12:25:32 AM »
Thanks for the response, Boethius

One of the first Q's SC asked me was are you a jealous man?

I responded that jealousy is normally a facet of a problem in a relationship s if you trust each other - it is not present.  I pointed out that I understood an attractive women getting looks / comments.

Apparently, that was a wise answer and all of our phones / tablets / pcs have shared emails / dropbox, etc.,

She still watches me to see if I note an attractive women and I still smile and say - when t'other lady is out of earshot ...before she can ask " yes I saw her and YES, she was pretty ... I'm not blind" and hold her hand tighter ..

{Edited to add}

She hasn't deleted photos taken by ex lovers and I deleted my life with V - believing it would be a mistake for a future partner to see.

Her photos do not phase me as it was before us...



« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 12:28:21 AM by msmob »

Offline Boethius

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2018, 12:33:02 AM »
One of the lawyers I worked with (ethnically Ukrainian) said as a married man, he didn’t notice anything. A naked woman could walk past him, and his response would be “What naked woman?”  His wife was not a Slav.

After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2018, 12:39:51 AM »
OP, Ukrainian cities, even big ones, are small. Were I you, I would visit another city.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline JayH

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2018, 01:01:35 AM »
OP --is her name Nati?
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2018, 01:10:40 AM »
One of the lawyers I worked with (ethnically Ukrainian) said as a married man, he didn’t notice anything. A naked woman could walk past him, and his response would be “What naked woman?”  His wife was not a Slav.

That is the smartest way!
A couple of years ago I while staying at  a resort Hotel I got sucked into a "popka" comparison  ie  which girl had the best looking popka !
Now --even if you lady is sensational ( mine is !) there is only so many ways you can say that eg she is good for her age etc or she is much younger etc or she is built differently etc. By process of eliminationi It came down to the last 3  -- so knowing there was no way I was going to win out of any of this --I said --ok-- I will take photos and you can judge !! ;D
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 02:59:28 AM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2018, 01:40:12 AM »
Gaspar, I made the same mistake with the first girl I met. For the Theatre I booked seats at the side, near the front and high up. Turns out as she told me that the seats in the middle are the best even if not so close to the stage.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 01:52:07 AM by AnonMod »
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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2018, 05:45:34 AM »
Gaspar,

to survive in Ukraine
people at the bottom
have to lie and cheat and steal
it's like breathing there
it's a part of every person

it's rare to find someone honest there
when trying to decide on which totally hot UA woman to marry
I picked the one I thought had the most integrity and maturity
rarer than diamonds
is the honest woman in Ukraine
so I gave her a big one (diamond Jay, not what you're thinking but I gave her that to)
almost 20 yr I have known her
never once tried to deceive me on anything
a Ukrainian!!!  this is amazing!!

it was a good guess on my part she'd be this way
wish it applied to the rest of her family
who would sell a rat's asshole to a blind man
and tell him it was a wedding ring
these are average poor Ukrainians

limo will be here soon
watch the news
prepare for something big
God Is Great!




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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #13 on: June 03, 2018, 06:03:57 AM »
Viy - written by a virtually unknown Ukrainian named Nikolai Vasylovych Gogol.  You may want to look him up.

I would not consider Gogol unknown. When I attended a Ukraine school in America in the 1970's we had a some of his short stories/novellas to read by him. I seem to recall The Nose. We had to compare it to other writers such as Clemens and Balzac.

Some might know the musicians known as Gogol Bordello. Free Hint Lots of good stuff on You Tube.

But this 'travel report' is more like a short story - play from the Ukraine/Russian playwright and writer M. Bulgakov. Who is he one wonders, think The Master and Margarita. OK to make things simple The Rolling Stones song "Sympathy for the Devil' is largely based on this novel.

Worth noting both Gogol and Bulgakov had a tendency to burn there manuscripts and writings in despair. This travel report will not burn!
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 11:22:28 AM by BdHvA »
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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #14 on: June 03, 2018, 06:39:22 AM »
Gaspar in reply to the topic of this thread I think most of the time it's no bad thing to make the mistake once, you'll learn from it and why people on here say what they say. I find one mistake (in person/in reality) gives a lot more bearing to the whole FSU dating scene that then it is easier to see why people on here say what they say about other stuff.

I personally think you have a lot of balls coming back and letting others know that it didn't work out. As we know it's life and it happens, but it's something we can all learn from even as a reminder and turn a bad experience into a good one. Too many people on here have a bad experience keep it to themselves for fear if looking foolish and learn nothing. I say learn what you can, pick yourself up and give it another go, try for a better result :)
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Offline ML

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2018, 12:07:50 PM »
In my interactions with over a hundred FSU gals, I only met a couple of Psychos like this one.  Luckily their nature was revealed in our first meeting which only lasted through a lunch.

I remember one of them kept insisting that my firm (I was on consulting assignment) would never let me go out in the town by myself, so she would look around and tell me which of the other customers were there as 'protectors' for me.  When I realized we were never going to work . . . I started wispering into my ballpoint pen; just to get her really riled up !!

The other kept telling me that she knew it was my intention to run away when the check came, so that she would be stuck with paying the bill.  It started irritating me so much that I actually started thinking about doing it !!
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2018, 12:18:15 PM »
In my times in Ukraine, like ML only met one wacky woman. She was clearly shall we say 'unhinged' but in the States I have to interact with several fruit cakes,

It is part of the fauna.
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Offline Boethius

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2018, 12:31:40 PM »
I would not consider Gogol unknown. When I attended a Ukraine school in America in the 1970's we had a some of his short stories/novellas to read by him. I seem to recall The Nose. We had to compare it to other writers such as Clemens and Balzac.

Some might know the musicians known as Gogol Bordello. Free Hint Lots of good stuff on You Tube.

But this 'travel report' is more like a short story - play from the Ukraine/Russian playwright and writer M. Bulgakov. Who is he one wonders, think The Master and Margarita. OK to make things simple The Rolling Stones song "Sympathy for the Devil' is largely based on this novel.

Worth noting both Gogol and Bulgakov had a tendency to burn there manuscripts and writings in despair. This travel report will not burn!



I was being facetious.


Gogol didn't burn his manuscript in despair.  He burned it because he was mentally ill.  He regretted his action the next day.


I have no knowledge of Bulgakov burning anything he wrote.  All his works were confiscated by authorities.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Online 2tallbill

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Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #18 on: June 03, 2018, 12:56:41 PM »
Needless to say much of the trip is ruined by one crazy stunt after another. 

This FSUW is too far down the crazy train tracks to hide it for long.
You didn't get any red flags before you got on a plane?


FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #19 on: June 03, 2018, 01:13:08 PM »
In my interactions with over a hundred FSU gals, I only met a couple of Psychos like this one.  Luckily their nature was revealed in our first meeting which only lasted through a lunch.

I remember one of them kept insisting that my firm (I was on consulting assignment) would never let me go out in the town by myself, so she would look around and tell me which of the other customers were there as 'protectors' for me.  When I realized we were never going to work . . . I started wispering into my ballpoint pen; just to get her really riled up !!

The other kept telling me that she knew it was my intention to run away when the check came, so that she would be stuck with paying the bill.  It started irritating me so much that I actually started thinking about doing it !!

I wonder if there is an inbuilt suspicion of many FSW as a part of their culture. Some may come out with their suspicions and some may keep theme hidden. As has been said on here and what I know of FSU history it probably bred a feeling of suspicion and distrust. Many FSW probably habour this as an inbuilt consciousness. Some of course are probably way more wacked out than others as we see here. I think in this case it would probably take many years just to get her to relax and learn that not everyone is a threat that it's not worth the ordeal as I think long term some of her attitudes are probably there to stay for life.
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Offline BdHvA

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2018, 01:57:16 PM »
I wonder if there is an inbuilt suspicion of many FSW as a part of their culture. Some may come out with their suspicions and some may keep theme hidden. As has been said on here and what I know of FSU history it probably bred a feeling of suspicion and distrust. Many FSW probably habour this as an inbuilt consciousness. Some of course are probably way more wacked out than others as we see here. I think in this case it would probably take many years just to get her to relax and learn that not everyone is a threat that it's not worth the ordeal as I think long term some of her attitudes are probably there to stay for life.

Trenchcoat I suspect you are correct that some women of the fSU have an inbuilt suspicions that are part and parcel of there psyche. On the other side if any woman distrusted you I would guess she has a healthy sense of common sense,
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2018, 02:12:22 PM »
FSUW rarely have trust issues with FSUM. 


Think about that.
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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2018, 02:49:11 PM »



Thanks for the update Gaspar. It's not an easy decision to cancel a fiancee visa but consider yourself fortunate you found out about her sooner than later. Months ago when you told us that she tattooed your name on her hand before your first visit, I suspected she'd be the jealous possessive type but I didn't want to judge at the time. I wonder what it's going to cost to remove your name from her hand?
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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2018, 08:43:44 PM »
I'm sorry things went south on you.

That said, you did already have some idea that  this was a crazy train,and it could run off the rails anytime. :popcorn:

 Beo, mentioned a cultural trait that is something anyone should think about if you have custody of your children .

It's always bantered about her how RM are generally less accepting in marriage of women with children from previous relationships.
This trait isnt gender specific, no idea why tgats si seldom discussed.
 This situation can be an advantage to men looking, as there are many available single mothers with less prospects of marriage and a true father to their child .
True or not they feel western men, western families are more prone to readily accepting and integrating families.
  This can also be one of the more serious challenges for a single western father though.

Obviously like most anything else,it is highly individualistic, but we can only generalize here and it is a different society.

Gaspar , while believe it or not I do see some parts of this story from her side,and misunderstandings,
I really truly think you should thank your lucky stars this went south before the k1 went any further,for everyone involved sakes.


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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2018, 11:42:16 PM »
Quote
It's always bantered about her how RM are generally less accepting in marriage of women with children from previous relationships. This trait isnt gender specific, no idea why that is seldom discussed.


Because it doesn't mesh with what most men want


After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2018, 11:00:20 AM »
FSUW rarely have trust issues with FSUM. 


Think about that.

That is worth thinking about. I hear that some FSW get concerned about other FSW moving in on their man, particularity younger women. If the FSM is seen as someone desirable, a good provider, etc then apparently I hear he can have a lot of choices and many play around a fair bit. Some FSM in demand apparently get spoilt by the choice and so they don't treat their wives well.

With foreign WM though I think distrust can probably grow pretty quickly and on both sides and this can be very negative for the relationship. Knowing just when is the right time to let her know more about your life and what to show her I think is important. Too early and you won't know if she is just into you for your house, flash car, etc too late and the distrustful thoughts will already be galloping away in her mind. I don't think the distance helps of course, if Gaspar was able to live with her in a domestic situation for say a couple of months or so in her country then she might get to know him better day to day and relax. I think that there is probably a lot of bad news stories/advice around about how you shouldn't trust a western man if he says this or that. In many cases its probably something completely innocent but it becomes 'Red Flag' issues to FSW who here about it all on their forums.

That's just my thoughts on it all anyway.
"If you make your own bread, then and only then, are you a free man unchained and alive living in pooty tang paradise, or say no and live in Incel island with all the others." - Krimster

Offline gaspar227

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #26 on: June 04, 2018, 05:04:24 PM »
I fully owned up that I saw the red flags.  I have worked through them before, but it was just too much.  I can take crazy if you want to call it that, but hypocrisy just is too much. 

I mean that she would flip on Badoo or Mambo and start talking to guys in front of me was crazy then cry and ask me why I still love my ex girlfriend when she saw a 2 year old message on facebook messenger.  Then apologize and say it was nothing...then do it again.   

There's no excuse, but I think i somehow felt obligated by the tattoo.  That somehow I rationalized that in her way she was saying that she wanted to make it so permanent on her body -- that I had an obligation to give it more of a try than I would have otherwise.  This combined with how amazingly affectionate and attentive she could be when she wanted to gave me hope. 

But as of this post, it's been over a week and not one message from her, nothing.

I think it's obvious she was having regrets about the entire thing, that she was in over her head and wanted to break it off but also felt like she could not in good conscious.  Her mother and entire family was begging her to keep the relationship (her mother even sent me Viber messages saying I needed to just give her more time).  I think she wanted it to work on many levels, but knew that she would not be able to so she sabotaged it.  I didn't write her first, so good -- it's my fault and she can be the victim. 

Much of her 'angst' was feeling overwhelmed by the English.  We were in Germany and there was nobody speaking Russian.  I totally empathize with her in a lot of this, but if she wanted it to work, it was not hard to go with the flow.  Perhaps she realized that in USA (as I repeated many times to her) hardly anyone would speak English.  This trip was just a small taste of the completely foreign world she would be agreeing to be in -- and that scared the hell out of her.  Instead of communicating this she lashed out.  She blamed me for every problem, every misunderstanding.

And I did a lot of research into Viy, how do you think I understood the plot at all??  I realize it's not supposed to be a love story but to HER...it was a love story.  According to her the movie has almost nothing to do with the play by the way so I was forcibly told NOT to watch the movie first.    It symbolized to her that if you are untrue, you will be have your karmic destruction.  In her mind, the guy was a big liar and deserved what he got even though the witch was the deceiver at every turn.  At least that's how I understood her explanation.  Kinda like don't lie to me or you will be punished and die even though I can lie to you. 

Did I mention that on the first visit we had a very large knife in the apartment that on the second night I hid on the highest shelf?  LOL.  There were red flags...I knew this would be a challenge, but that tattoo got me.  It's just so permanent...i would have thought she would have tried harder.  And in fairness maybe this WAS her trying harder.  She's a pretty girl, it's not like she was single because there weren't offers. 

Thanks for the support, and I'm all about transparency. 

 

Offline BillyB

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #27 on: June 04, 2018, 06:13:08 PM »
I mean that she would flip on Badoo or Mambo and start talking to guys in front of me was crazy....

But as of this post, it's been over a week and not one message from her, nothing.

Her mother and entire family was begging her to keep the relationship (her mother even sent me Viber messages saying I needed to just give her more time).


A girl like her have guys coming at her all the time. She has a lot of attention and can be selective. But she's not wise enough to understand most of those men just want to get into her pants and use her. Your ex fiancée's family probably knew you were better than most men she could catch, you're willing to marry her, and will give her a better life in another country. Guys like you don't come along often.
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Offline gaspar227

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #28 on: June 04, 2018, 06:35:38 PM »
Everyone I met with her asked her where she met me LOL.  Even the teacher of her English class when I came to visit was like "what site was that again?".  Funny thing is she kept saying we met on ukrainedate.com but I know it was dmnotify.  I did a little hunting and I found her on like 5 sites. 

She was busy!  And she knew they wanted in her pants, she just wanted to make me jealous.  And she LOVED the attention. 

Offline Boethius

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #29 on: June 04, 2018, 06:37:23 PM »
They were probably asking because a lot of sites are scam sites from which women make money.


I see nothing wrong with being on multiple dating sites.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2018, 06:49:41 PM »
Her mother and entire family was begging her to keep the relationship (her mother even sent me Viber messages saying I needed to just give her more time).


She is 30 - in Ukraine, they would say "Put a cross over her.", meaning, she will never find a husband  there.  I don't know if I agree with that entirely, but it is the general perspective. 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline msmob

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2018, 05:39:47 AM »

I mean that she would flip on Badoo or Mambo and start talking to guys in front of me was crazy then cry and ask me why I still love my ex girlfriend when she saw a 2 year old message on facebook messenger.  Then apologize and say it was nothing...then do it again.   

THAT would have been enough 'crazy' for most.. !

Certainly, see no harm in having more than one profile - it isn't a red flag - until you think you're in a mutually exclusive relationship

Offline gaspar227

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2018, 07:34:24 AM »
My only point was that she immediately told me to "delete" my profile when we started getting a little more serious.  And she deleted hers ... from DM notify.  She still had the others out there.  It was the hypocrisy I was highlighting not the effort level.  The fact that she needed so much attention.  I think the constant mood swings got her the attention she was looking for and not a nice steady rhythm

Offline BillyB

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2018, 07:45:28 AM »
My only point was that she immediately told me to "delete" my profile when we started getting a little more serious.  And she deleted hers ... from DM notify.  She still had the others out there.


Sometimes when women sign up on one site, that site gives passes out their photos or info to other sites. Women then get mail from sites they never signed up for which can encourage them to start using the site. Of course there's no excuse for her deleting her profile on the site she met you and keeping her options open at the other sites.
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Offline Jumper

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2018, 12:05:18 PM »
The hand tattoo with your name would scare most men off.
Feeling a need to hide a knife, way out there.


Quote
She blamed me for every problem, every misunderstanding.

Stereotypical actually of a agency girl, or princess syndrome.
Easy to find in any country, no need to look in other cultures.


I'm sure the trip stressed her,but really ?
A decent trip to Europe to be ewth youd fiancee?and all you can do is act a spoiled immature brat?
You are silly for ignoring the other red flags and really really lucky she acted out now instead of later.
But you should learn to not try and *work thru it* wtf if you did next time?

The only reason she can be like she is ,is relative attractiveness, which is fleeting.
She's 30 and already on the shelf there.

For your own good and that of your family ,
Run Forest run!  when you see crazy ,dont try and fix it or work with it.
And it doesnt matter where you find it or what package its wrapped in, run!
.lol.
.

Offline jone

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2018, 03:54:47 PM »
People who undertake this method of dating are so enamored with the pretty outside of the women that they fail to truly assess whether the woman on the inside is worth marrying.  And once the commitment is made, flying to UA or Russia, that they want it to work so badly that they accept things that they would never put up with on their home soil. 

Hey, if a woman is single at the age of 30 in UA, there is certainly a reason for it.  It could be that she was married and recently divorced.  In that case, it is important to find out the reasons for the split.  It could be that she is crazy as a bag of cats.  If the latter is true, run for the hills.  Don't hang around.  Don't see if you can change her.  She will be like that her whole life and while the sex may be good, the long term prospects will drive you to an early grave.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline msmob

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #36 on: June 09, 2018, 08:38:10 PM »
People who undertake this method of dating are so enamored with the pretty outside of the women that they fail to truly assess whether the woman on the inside is worth marrying.  And once the commitment is made, flying to UA or Russia, that they want it to work so badly that they accept things that they would never put up with on their home soil. 

Hey, if a woman is single at the age of 30 in UA, there is certainly a reason for it.  It could be that she was married and recently divorced.  In that case, it is important to find out the reasons for the split.  It could be that she is crazy as a bag of cats.  If the latter is true, run for the hills.  Don't hang around.  Don't see if you can change her.  She will be like that her whole life and while the sex may be good, the long term prospects will drive you to an early grave.

As Boethius points out - in many cases only living with someone - will you truly know them. 

Hence the expression you will hear in the FSU .."You have to eat 50 tonnes of salt together to really know each other .."



 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2018, 08:07:16 AM by msmob »

Offline gaspar227

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2018, 08:06:39 AM »
In general I agree, and I ignored red flags, but also we had almost constant communication for 6 months prior to this.  We had talked about almost everything.  Communicating this much you see many good and bad sides to a person.  It was my sincere belief that she would be fine in the situation, but she fell apart.

As far as the 'wrapper' goes.   While an attractive woman, the characterization that I was only hanging around because of this was not the case.  I DID make some allowances in her behavior in the hopes that things would be better when things settled down. 

It was more of the tenacity with which she seemed to want make it work most of the time.   I really think there is something not right in her brain chemistry.  The ups and downs swung too fast and with such huge gaps between one end and the other -- it wasn't just nerves it was something more.  I think when she was home she could mask this, on this last trip it caught up to her. 

Yes she is divorced (quickly) but that was 6 years ago. 

I was hoping that a stabilizing presence would help her to smooth out the rough edges.  I  was wrong.  She's reached out to me a couple of times now, but I'm not going to take go there.  It's exactly as Jone said.  She's a lost cause.  It makes me sad. 

Offline BillyB

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2018, 08:46:42 AM »
As far as the 'wrapper' goes.   While an attractive woman, the characterization that I was only hanging around because of this was not the case.  I DID make some allowances in her behavior in the hopes that things would be better when things settled down. 


It's true men won't put up with any BS from ugly women, it's not true that beauty is the only thing that makes up put up with BS from beautiful women. As you mentioned, you've invested 6 months with this women prior. I'm sure you had sincere hopes things would move in the right direction and love will make a better person out of you and her. Your lady didn't share the same hopes. She didn't want to become a better person. She wants a man to accept her the ways she is. Some women let themselves go and are ugly on the outside and have that policy. Your lady was ugly on the inside and had that policy.
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Offline ML

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2018, 08:57:45 AM »
It could be that she was married and recently divorced.  In that case, it is important to find out the reasons for the split. 

And how do you suppose you will find the true answer . . . which will not necessarily be her answer?
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline gaspar227

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2018, 01:04:58 AM »
Yeah, it's done.  put a fork in it and this thread :)

Offline BillyB

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2018, 08:48:16 AM »
Yeah, it's done.  put a fork in it and this thread :)

You did the right thing. There's a better woman out there for you.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Online Hammer2722

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Re: Sometimes it's better to Listen than to Wish
« Reply #42 on: June 15, 2018, 08:54:30 AM »
You did the right thing. There's a better woman out there for you.

I definitely agree. You dodged a BIG bullet there Gaspar!  :o
every ship can be a minesweeper at least once...

 

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Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by krimster2
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American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by 2tallbill
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If you don't know what you are talking about, post away anyway by 2tallbill
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Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by krimster2
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Re: American With Russian Fiancé - Scheduled For K1 Interview In Warsaw, BUT.... by Trenchcoat
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